Why won’t anyone hire me?

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Dude2
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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by Dude2 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:07 am

dm200 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:22 am
I see that you are in Western NY State. I grew up there - and the jobs/economic situation there is not the best over the last few decades. From my family, etc. still in that area, the unemployment rate there is not good for those seeking many kinds of jobs.
I honestly think this is the crux of the matter. I got transferred up to Rochester where I lived for 7 years. While people were friendly, the job market was just the worst. My mother was a bit older than you when she came to live with me, but with a similar background she experienced similar problems. She tried temp agencies and landed a couple of tries, but they did not stick. She worked a desk at some sort of "at risk youth" facility where they had to lock the doors and buzz people in and out. Pretty scary. She got hired briefly during tax time. Each experience left her worse off emotionally. There was no support or encouragement, simply that you had to already have the skills and that if you didn't measure up you had to go. Pay was low, no benefits. Needless to say, we got out of there as soon as was practical.
Last edited by Dude2 on Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by mighty72 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:07 am

Moved to Personal Consumer Issues

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dm200
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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by dm200 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:11 am

Dude2 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:07 am
dm200 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:22 am
I see that you are in Western NY State. I grew up there - and the jobs/economic situation there is not the best over the last few decades. From my family, etc. still in that area, the unemployment rate there is not good for those seeking many kinds of jobs.
I honestly think this is the crux of the matter. I got transferred up to Rochester where I lived for 7 years. While people were friendly, the job market was just the worst. My mother was a bit older than you when she came to live with me, but with a similar background she experienced similar problems. She tried temp agencies and landed a couple of tries, but they did not stick. She worked a desk at some sort of "at risk youth" facility where they had to lock the doors and buzz people in and out. Pretty scary. She got hired briefly during tax time. Each experience left her worse off emotionally. There was no support or encouragement, simply that you had to already have the skills and that if you didn't measure up you had to go. Pay was low, no benefits. Needless to say, we got out of there as soon as was practical.
I am old enough to remember when a job at Eastman Kodak was like owning the goose that laid golden eggs! Good pay, excellent benefits, near 100% job security, great retirement benefits - and the annual "bonus". Then, along came Xerox - another (back then) super employer.

Not now!

fposte
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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by fposte » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:19 am

deikel wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:06 am
c) if 0/20 is the result of the interviews, then I would suspect there is an issue in presentation during said interviews. There is nothing wrong with calling the hiring manager up after the process is over and ask what the impression was - honestly state that you would like to improve you interview performance and would appreciate honest feedback - you will probably get a slightly packaged answer, but its worth listening. If you only get 5/20 answers, that should give you some clue
Contact the hiring manager, sure, but email, don't call. This is a request for a favor, and interrupting somebody is a bad start for that.

deikel
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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by deikel » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:45 am

fposte wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:19 am
deikel wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:06 am
c) if 0/20 is the result of the interviews, then I would suspect there is an issue in presentation during said interviews. There is nothing wrong with calling the hiring manager up after the process is over and ask what the impression was - honestly state that you would like to improve you interview performance and would appreciate honest feedback - you will probably get a slightly packaged answer, but its worth listening. If you only get 5/20 answers, that should give you some clue
Contact the hiring manager, sure, but email, don't call. This is a request for a favor, and interrupting somebody is a bad start for that.
No, you won't get an honest answer in an email - no paper trace....hiring managers are averse to getting sued for discrimination and will not tell you anything in an email (ignore the fact that some states would allow you to record the phone call with the same consequences).

In person would be ideal, but that is indeed disruptive, a five minute call for a candidate that was there in person - absolutely.
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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by david99 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:46 am

I would go to your local unemployment office and get information about training opportunities. There are many trainings that only take a few months and some of them are free. You can also go to your local community college and find out about training programs. It may just take a few months of computer training to get a job. The unemployment office can also look at your resume and give you ideas on how to proceed or help you rewrite your resume.
Last edited by david99 on Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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dm200
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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by dm200 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:47 am

david99 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:46 am
I would go to your local unemployment office and get information about training opportunities. There are many trainings that only take a few months and some of them are free. You can also go to your local community college and find out about training programs. It may just take a few months of computer training to get a job.
Great idea! That office, as well, may have job openings listed as well.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by ohai » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:50 am

You could try some non paycheck work, like dog walking, online editing, drive Uber, etc.

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dm200
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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by dm200 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:01 am

Just my "guess", but with 20 interviews - I doubt there is anything wrong with the actual interview itself - especially since the feedback seems positive.

I tend to think it is something commonly "perceived" as an objective issue that impedes being hired.

When I was encountering similar problems, the interviews all went great - BUT then the rejection calls or letters stated things like "the position was filled" or " we decided not to hire anyone" or "we decided to contract out the duties". One rejection said I was not qualified/experienced enough to post general ledger accounting entries. I knew that was a lie because I can/could do those in my sleep.

I then would see the same position advertised again, soon after being rejected. Same story for every position.

I then was able to look at the credit report employer inquiries that had been done on me. I learned that the rejections (and lies) happened right after an employment credit report was pulled. I knew that my credit was spotless and this was not cited. I then concluded that they had also run some kind of automated background check that showed the inaccurate and misleading information. I knew what was there because I ran such a check on myself. I also knew that being rejected for such a check did not require any notification to me by these employers.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by sbaywriter » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:09 am

I don't think any one has mentioned the possible "perceived as too old" issue. Is it possible that they are looking for younger candidates in some cases so they kind of write you off at the beginning of the interview but don't say anything because legally they are not supposed to consider age. There's not much you can do about those issues except not take it personally and persist until you find someone who is fine with you as you are.

Consider also if your appearance is up to date with latest styles. In those "what not to wear" clothing makeover shows, almost anyone who has been staying at home has outdated clothing, hair styles, etc., that's just kind of natural that it happens. Do your clothes, hair style, accessories etc seem to match the styles you see in the office where you interview. If they don't, this is something you can change. If you don't match the workplace styles, then subconsciously people may see you as not "up to date" in other things, like work skills.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by dbr » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:14 am

dm200 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:01 am
Just my "guess", but with 20 interviews - I doubt there is anything wrong with the actual interview itself - especially since the feedback seems positive.

I tend to think it is something commonly "perceived" as an objective issue that impedes being hired.

When I was encountering similar problems, the interviews all went great - BUT then the rejection calls or letters stated things like "the position was filled" or " we decided not to hire anyone" or "we decided to contract out the duties". One rejection said I was not qualified/experienced enough to post general ledger accounting entries. I knew that was a lie because I can/could do those in my sleep.

I then would see the same position advertised again, soon after being rejected. Same story for every position.

I then was able to look at the credit report employer inquiries that had been done on me. I learned that the rejections (and lies) happened right after an employment credit report was pulled. I knew that my credit was spotless and this was not cited. I then concluded that they had also run some kind of automated background check that showed the inaccurate and misleading information. I knew what was there because I ran such a check on myself. I also knew that being rejected for such a check did not require any notification to me by these employers.
This could be a theory. Anyone who is in a situation where someone might be running background checks should probably run one on themselves.

The other possibility is that there is something missing regarding commonly perceived qualifications for these jobs. A test might be how many questions are asked that the applicant has to say they aren't familiar with that or haven't done it. I knew one job I applied for was going to be a lost cause when the only answer I could give to "Can you do that?" was "I am sure I could learn how." That is true even if without a doubt I could have learned how. I have been on teams interviewing candidates where it becomes very clear that the candidate just doesn't have the tools to do what we are looking for even though there was nothing generally wrong with the candidate.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by Thegame14 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:30 am

maria00200 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:10 am
I’m 48, female, was a stay at home parent for the past 7 years, but I’m ready to go back in the workforce so I can help contribute to bills and retirement account. I don’t have a college degree but I do have some secretarial experience prior to when my son was born. I have literally applied on Indeed to close to 100 jobs in the past couple months, and been on about 20 different interviews. All the interviews seemed to go very well, but then I get rejected over and over. I’m fairly attractive, clean, dress nice. What am I doing wrong? Is it really this hard to find a job nowadays? I am applying mostly office positions but now I’m starting to wonder if I should just apply at McDonald’s. Is it my age? I can’t even believe how difficult it is to get a job, as opposed to when I was in my 20s and 30s. I really wanted to help take the burden off my husband with all the bills but I feel like giving up. :?
you are 48, haven't worked in 7 years and no one trains anyone these days. I assume you would have to take a receptionist/secretarial job to get foot in the door, and prob making around $25-30K, so that should be your expectation. Maybe you are aiming too high in starting salary, maybe in interview talking about moving up too fast. But you have to realize you already have 2-3 strikes against you, I would hope you are familiar with excel. Most people will assume your skills are out of date and again NO ONE trains anymore....

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dm200
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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by dm200 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:45 am

The other possibility is that there is something missing regarding commonly perceived qualifications for these jobs. A test might be how many questions are asked that the applicant has to say they aren't familiar with that or haven't done it. I knew one job I applied for was going to be a lost cause when the only answer I could give to "Can you do that?" was "I am sure I could learn how." That is true even if without a doubt I could have learned how. I have been on teams interviewing candidates where it becomes very clear that the candidate just doesn't have the tools to do what we are looking for even though there was nothing generally wrong with the candidate.
Yes - could be possible. However, it seems that if this were the case, there would not be the positive interview feedback being reported.

There are probably better ways to answer (even if true) than "I can learn".

Be prepared, as best you can, for such questions and your answers. Perhaps say that you have done such and such, which is very similar to the task brought up.
I assume you would have to take a receptionist/secretarial job to get foot in the door, and prob making around $25-30K, so that should be your expectation. Maybe you are aiming too high in starting salary, maybe in interview talking about moving up too fast. But you have to realize you already have 2-3 strikes against you, I would hope you are familiar with excel. Most people will assume your skills are out of date and again NO ONE trains anymore...
.

Not directly, anyway. Back when I got out of college, knowing close to zero about computer programming - I was hired at a good starting salary and benefits by a MegaCorp that provided a six month training program for me to become a mainframe "System Programmer."

Often, the "best" type of job for someone like this are not advertised, but filled by who knows who - and networking. Sometimes, for example, a small company will have an office - and a need for someone to "run" the office for all of the mundane (but important) kinds of things that need to be done - from answering the phone and emails, to ordering office supplies to making the first pot of coffee in the morning to cleaning out the refrigerator. I have heard of this job being called the "Office Mom".

Thegame14
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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by Thegame14 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:07 pm

dm200 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:45 am
The other possibility is that there is something missing regarding commonly perceived qualifications for these jobs. A test might be how many questions are asked that the applicant has to say they aren't familiar with that or haven't done it. I knew one job I applied for was going to be a lost cause when the only answer I could give to "Can you do that?" was "I am sure I could learn how." That is true even if without a doubt I could have learned how. I have been on teams interviewing candidates where it becomes very clear that the candidate just doesn't have the tools to do what we are looking for even though there was nothing generally wrong with the candidate.
Yes - could be possible. However, it seems that if this were the case, there would not be the positive interview feedback being reported.

There are probably better ways to answer (even if true) than "I can learn".

Be prepared, as best you can, for such questions and your answers. Perhaps say that you have done such and such, which is very similar to the task brought up.
I assume you would have to take a receptionist/secretarial job to get foot in the door, and prob making around $25-30K, so that should be your expectation. Maybe you are aiming too high in starting salary, maybe in interview talking about moving up too fast. But you have to realize you already have 2-3 strikes against you, I would hope you are familiar with excel. Most people will assume your skills are out of date and again NO ONE trains anymore...
.

Not directly, anyway. Back when I got out of college, knowing close to zero about computer programming - I was hired at a good starting salary and benefits by a MegaCorp that provided a six month training program for me to become a mainframe "System Programmer."

Often, the "best" type of job for someone like this are not advertised, but filled by who knows who - and networking. Sometimes, for example, a small company will have an office - and a need for someone to "run" the office for all of the mundane (but important) kinds of things that need to be done - from answering the phone and emails, to ordering office supplies to making the first pot of coffee in the morning to cleaning out the refrigerator. I have heard of this job being called the "Office Mom".
right but you were young and had a degree, she is old and doesn't have a degree, yes there is ageism, but you wont ever be told that directly. Also they will assume she cant work late or overtime since she has kids, so that is another strike against her.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by Pigeon » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:08 pm

I suspect the problem is a combination of a few different things. Age discrimination is a thing. You aren't old. But with no recent experience and no degree, you are competing with people who are not long out of high school, and they may be seen as having more up-to-date skills.

You need to find a way to refresh your skills and gain some recent experience. A previous poster was very negative about temp work because only a quarter or so of temp appointments turned full time in one study. I don't think that's horrible. Even if the statistic holds true, that's still a quarter of the people finding permanent positions and even if you don't, you are still gaining more recent experience to put on your resume. Call your local public library and see if there is a way for you to access Lynda.com for some online classes in the latest version of Office applications and other software. Your local community college might have adult ed classes (usually cheap) that could help build your skills.

Western NY might not be the easiest place to reenter the workforce, but unemployment is low and there are jobs. Expect your first job isn't going to be fabulous, but school systems, local governments, colleges, etc. all hire. The fact that you got 20 interviews is great. All it takes is for one to turn into an offer. Keep plugging away and you'll find something.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by tlk59 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:15 pm

I would second agencies, but like with anything, there are good and bad ones. I'm in a different field (web programming), but was about your age 12 years ago when coming out of a failed business , and struggling to work my way back into tech jobs. Tech companies (maybe most companies now?) seem to like having a couple full-time employees managing a team of contractors, so the odds are good going after contracts.

Building a long-term relationship with one good agency has been key. Once having proven myself, when one contact ends, they make it a priority to find another contract for me. Everybody wins. And yes, there is the possibility you could be converted to a full-time employee.

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dm200
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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by dm200 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:21 pm

right but you were young and had a degree, she is old and doesn't have a degree, yes there is ageism, but you wont ever be told that directly. Also they will assume she cant work late or overtime since she has kids, so that is another strike against her.
Yes. My point, though, was the generality that employers today, in my opinion, do not want to spend any significant amount on training almost anyone hired for a job.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by fposte » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:21 pm

deikel wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:45 am
fposte wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:19 am
deikel wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:06 am
c) if 0/20 is the result of the interviews, then I would suspect there is an issue in presentation during said interviews. There is nothing wrong with calling the hiring manager up after the process is over and ask what the impression was - honestly state that you would like to improve you interview performance and would appreciate honest feedback - you will probably get a slightly packaged answer, but its worth listening. If you only get 5/20 answers, that should give you some clue
Contact the hiring manager, sure, but email, don't call. This is a request for a favor, and interrupting somebody is a bad start for that.
No, you won't get an honest answer in an email - no paper trace....hiring managers are averse to getting sued for discrimination and will not tell you anything in an email (ignore the fact that some states would allow you to record the phone call with the same consequences).

In person would be ideal, but that is indeed disruptive, a five minute call for a candidate that was there in person - absolutely.
My experience is the opposite. I don't respond to phone calls from candidates, and I don't return them. However, I might indeed offer some guidance to an email.

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dm200
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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by dm200 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:29 pm

School systems can be a good employer. If not already doing, become active in the PTA and get on various committees.

That way you may be able to learn about available jobs. Also, look for jobs where the regular person is going on maternity or paternity leave - and try to get your foot in the door that way.

NY State (one reason taxes are so high) has many, many levels of government and, except for the bigger cities, the school systems run independently of a government entity. There are lots of part time positions at all these levels - from dog catcher to town assessor and so on. My brother built on this "structure" to qualify for a nice pension in his retirement.

NY State also give all sorts of grants to entities that hire part time folks. In his "retirement", my brother is cashing in on one of those.

I will also repeat my suggestion to investigate a local medium sized credit union - start as a teller (maybe even part time) and, with your foot in the door - move to a better position.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by Meg77 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:34 pm

If I were in your situation, I would look at starting a business. You'll have more flexibility and could make about the same after tax income in no time as you could with a temp job paying roughly minimum wage (owning a business is really favorable to being an employee from a tax perspective - you can deduct a lot of expenses too). It might not sound glamorous, but it would be a lot more stimulating and potentially lucrative, plus you'd be empowered and in control of your future. Maid service, dog walking, child care, lawn care, home maintenance...don't underestimate the power of being articulate and reliable in these kinds of fields. If you do have other skills or would like to acquire them, there's freelance writing, personal training, selling edible or handcrafted goods, and on and on. You could even get licensed to sell real estate or do financial coaching. The sky is the limit!
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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by GCD » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:34 pm

I thought about suggesting Uber, but per the ongoing thread on Uber I have discovered that they often don't make all that much.

Have you considered other opportunities to be self-employed? Our maid quit Molly Maids about 2 years ago and has been with us ever since. She is fantastic and keeps a client list just big enough to keep herself busy. Not that I'm suggesting maid service for you personally, but it shows you don't need a particular skill to become self-employed.

In my experience with low-end semi-skilled self-employment (tree and brush removal), the key is to simply undercut everyone else. Being the cheapest won't necessarily earn you enough to put your kids through college, buy a big house and retire early, but it sounds like you just want to add to the household income stream. Self-employment in any field with few barriers to entry hinges on being the cheapest. Nobody cares about who is the highest skilled junk hauler, they just want their broken washer/dryer hauled away as quickly and cheaply as possible.

Figure out what you know how to do, spend a couple hundred bucks on flyers, business cards and a website and then undercut everyone. Raise your rates later on as the market allows.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by dm200 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:36 pm

Meg77 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:34 pm
If I were in your situation, I would look at starting a business. You'll have more flexibility and could make about the same after tax income in no time as you could with a temp job paying roughly minimum wage (owning a business is really favorable to being an employee from a tax perspective - you can deduct a lot of expenses too). It might not sound glamorous, but it would be a lot more stimulating and potentially lucrative, plus you'd be empowered and in control of your future. Maid service, dog walking, child care, lawn care, home maintenance...don't underestimate the power of being articulate and reliable in these kinds of fields. If you do have other skills or would like to acquire them, there's freelance writing, personal training, selling edible or handcrafted goods, and on and on. You could even get licensed to sell real estate or do financial coaching. The sky is the limit!
Maybe or maybe not! To be BOTH successful and happy having your own "business" requires a certain "mindset" and attitude - in addition to the specific skills. Not for everyone.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by GCD » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:40 pm

Meg77 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:34 pm
don't underestimate the power of being articulate and reliable in these kinds of fields.
Handymen, maids, etc. are notorious for not showing up when they will, having the work drag on, etc.

I knew a recruiter in Minneapolis who said if you have a college degree, can compose something coherent that's longer than an e-mail, can pass drug and alcohol urine tests and can show up from 9-5 M-F consistently then you are worth $100K as a program manager.

The same holds true for all these unskilled jobs laid out by Meg. Just show up when you say you will, return phone calls and communicate in clear English and you will crush it.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by Mr.BB » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:41 pm

You may want to consider having a professional review your resume and possible work with you on your interviewing skills.
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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by Momus » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:49 pm

Gig jobs like doordash/Uber/lyft will give you $15-30/hr BEFORE expenses. Set your own hours, no benefit. Something to think about.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by dm200 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:56 pm

Momus wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:49 pm
Gig jobs like doordash/Uber/lyft will give you $15-30/hr BEFORE expenses. Set your own hours, no benefit. Something to think about.
I have not done detailed calculations, but I suspect the actual "expenses" are higher than it might appear. Some folks I know, for example, do not "count" the wear and tear, and increased depreciation of their vehicle as an evaluated cost.

In our locality, I just saw an advertisement and push for hiring school crossing guards. They work about 13 hours a week and are paid between $15 and $23 per hour. [Not sure how rate of pay is decided]. Not for everyone - since that is every school day - in the mornings and afternoons.

As I drive around the area, I see a lot of such crossing guards that appear to be in the "retired" age group.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:07 pm

I think a key has been hit on. Companies rarely use secretaries/admins anymore compared to years past. I cover upstate NY from time to time and just thinking about some of the bigger companies...Welch Allyn, Carrier, Harris...... I'd say half the lobbies had a sign saying to call your contact to come get you. No secretary/admin at all. Of those who did have someone (think Harris, military supplier) the people in the lobby were security, not admin.

Perhaps apply for security jobs at the bigger companies. From what I've seen, they're not gun carrying police people, they're there to help you with the tablet to key in your info and print out your badge, then chase down whoever you're there to see. Some are not company employees, but hired out to firms like Securitas. Maybe look into security companies?
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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by GCD » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:13 pm

There's a link in the Uber thread to a Mr. Money Mustache article where he debunks the profitability of being an Uber driver. Primarily because people don't include wear and tear on their car as an expense. It sounds bad, but what do I know. I just took it on faith that his numbers are right.

However, I think one advantage of Uber and other gig jobs is that the company doesn't care how many people are out there. It costs them little or nothing. So there isn't much of a bar to employment. There's little winnowing in the hiring process. If OP is reluctant to start her own business from scratch, having the infrastructure of Uber to essentially be self-employed without the admin part of self-employment might be an answer. And if she's having trouble in the interview process I don't think that will be a problem at Uber.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by cal91 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:18 pm

Start your own window washing business?

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by Tamarind » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:52 pm

dm200 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:45 am
Often, the "best" type of job for someone like this are not advertised, but filled by who knows who - and networking. Sometimes, for example, a small company will have an office - and a need for someone to "run" the office for all of the mundane (but important) kinds of things that need to be done - from answering the phone and emails, to ordering office supplies to making the first pot of coffee in the morning to cleaning out the refrigerator. I have heard of this job being called the "Office Mom".
Office Manager is an actual job and career, though I always said I was a "professional cat herder". I did this as a temp-to-hire for a software company a decade ago. Got exposed to engineers and produced my first process flowchart. It was printed out and taped to the refrigerator door to remind the engineers how to determine if they were responsible for putting a fresh case of Dr. Pepper in the fridge. Now I do business software consulting and process improvement, so little has changed but the tools. Well, and the fact that I don't have to go buy pop tarts every week anymore. :beer

Note that Office Management also involves a lot of general purpose software ability. You have to do a lot of scheduling and even configuration of calendar software, use purchasing systems, shipping websites, maintain equipment, etc.

TN_Boy
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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by TN_Boy » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:09 pm

GCD wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:13 pm
There's a link in the Uber thread to a Mr. Money Mustache article where he debunks the profitability of being an Uber driver. Primarily because people don't include wear and tear on their car as an expense. It sounds bad, but what do I know. I just took it on faith that his numbers are right.

However, I think one advantage of Uber and other gig jobs is that the company doesn't care how many people are out there. It costs them little or nothing. So there isn't much of a bar to employment. There's little winnowing in the hiring process. If OP is reluctant to start her own business from scratch, having the infrastructure of Uber to essentially be self-employed without the admin part of self-employment might be an answer. And if she's having trouble in the interview process I don't think that will be a problem at Uber.
I do some tax volunteering and I can say that Lyft/Uber drivers are not getting rich. It's not just the wear and tear on the car. You have to pay FICA tax as well, an unpleasant surprise for many of our tax clients at tax time.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by TN_Boy » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:13 pm

dm200 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:01 am
Just my "guess", but with 20 interviews - I doubt there is anything wrong with the actual interview itself - especially since the feedback seems positive.

I tend to think it is something commonly "perceived" as an objective issue that impedes being hired.

When I was encountering similar problems, the interviews all went great - BUT then the rejection calls or letters stated things like "the position was filled" or " we decided not to hire anyone" or "we decided to contract out the duties". One rejection said I was not qualified/experienced enough to post general ledger accounting entries. I knew that was a lie because I can/could do those in my sleep.

I then would see the same position advertised again, soon after being rejected. Same story for every position.

I then was able to look at the credit report employer inquiries that had been done on me. I learned that the rejections (and lies) happened right after an employment credit report was pulled. I knew that my credit was spotless and this was not cited. I then concluded that they had also run some kind of automated background check that showed the inaccurate and misleading information. I knew what was there because I ran such a check on myself. I also knew that being rejected for such a check did not require any notification to me by these employers.
Getting 20 interviews out of 100 or so resumes strikes me as an extremely good hit rate on the interviews. I would try and reach out to some of the hiring managers, as others have suggested, and get honest feedback on why they didn't hire. Be very clear upfront that you are NOT trying to prolong the interview -- you accept you won't get the job. But you'd appreciate friendly advice.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by Housedoc » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:14 pm

Check with local Sherwin Williams stores, other paint company stores, etc. They have a hard time finding people that will show up for work and are dependable. Paint mixing is computerized these days. My son was an intern there. Pay was about $13hr for internship.
Home Depot and Lowes, Sam's Club Costco, all these need dependable, drug free, pass background check people.
Go in and ask for the manager on duty at non busy times and express your desire to work and how great an asset you would be to help the company. The resume system is scanned by Artificial Intelligence these days and a human may never lay eyes on it. Have a copy to hand to whoever you talk to. Use an app like Nextdoor to let your neighbors know you are looking to get back into the workforce.
You just need to get in front of the correct person. Best of luck

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by tesuzuki2002 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:26 pm

The job market is challenging these days especially for office jobs. I have a 4 friends who have been out of work over a year and have been on hundreds of interviews... Still have not been able to turn anything up... I recommend they just go it on their own... start cleaning houses or delivering goods... there are so many options these days.

Unemployment rates so low and people still seeking work...

power washing has a huge premium on it these days....

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by Momus » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:53 pm

dm200 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:56 pm
Momus wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:49 pm
Gig jobs like doordash/Uber/lyft will give you $15-30/hr BEFORE expenses. Set your own hours, no benefit. Something to think about.
I have not done detailed calculations, but I suspect the actual "expenses" are higher than it might appear. Some folks I know, for example, do not "count" the wear and tear, and increased depreciation of their vehicle as an evaluated cost.

In our locality, I just saw an advertisement and push for hiring school crossing guards. They work about 13 hours a week and are paid between $15 and $23 per hour. [Not sure how rate of pay is decided]. Not for everyone - since that is every school day - in the mornings and afternoons.

As I drive around the area, I see a lot of such crossing guards that appear to be in the "retired" age group.
I made $7000 driving around putting about 6k miles to my car in about 1.5 months, about 15% of income going to gas. I get toy money without touching my real job money. Yea yea but depreciation, but it's still money. If I keep going I'll make 21k in 4.5 months putting 18k mileage and that basically pays off the car entirely. At 0.58 cents/mile deduction and deduct your phone cost/bill, you don't pay much at all in tax. It's not a bad gig for low skilled worker.

Edit 2: forgot to deduct 1k miles going to my real job, so it's actually 6k miles for $7000.
Last edited by Momus on Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by California88 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:57 pm

I'd advise working through temp agencies - but you've got to have advanced computer skills (young kids have those skills) - so start taking advance classes in Excel, etc. - all that computer stuff isn't that hard but you have to do it on a daily basis. During interviews, make sure to get it across that "child care is not going to be a problem and you'll be able to stay late if need be". Maybe do some volunteer work where you can get computer experience. I know it's hard - but don't give up - it's just that it's a new world out there and those office jobs that were around 10 years ago - well have just gone away.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by sunny_socal » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:59 pm

You'll do ok OP, keep at it! You're young and attractive, those will get you into a lot of doors. Keep sending out resumes and getting interviews. You might think about getting a couple people to review the resume for you, there are ways to polish despite lack of recent experience.

My wife is also a SAHM and is going to start looking for work after being out for 15 years. Her resume still lists "Wordperfect and Lotus 123" as skills, that gives you an idea of where she's at :|

Things to think about:
- Volunteer somewhere for the time being. This will give you an another item for your resume and build your experience.
- Consider Lowes/HD/Costco, they have many entry level jobs that you can later develop into a 'manager' type position
- Sign up on LinkedIn if you haven't already. If you have facebook, find all those people on LinkedIn. Spread the word!
- Drive around looking for "Now hiring" signs. I see these all the time in various store fronts. My wife worked in a craft store for a while (think Michaels) and loved it!
- Keep your computer skills up to date. Know how to move files around, what "the cloud" is, play with free versions of office tools (eg. Open Office, Google Docs), create a spreadsheet for home finances, create a presentation about yourself.
- Use your existing network of friends/acquaintances
- Also look at state jobs, eg. Park Ranger

If you want to save for retirement, definitely look for something with a 401k, then you can shelter most of the additional income.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by Momus » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:10 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:07 pm
I think a key has been hit on. Companies rarely use secretaries/admins anymore compared to years past. I cover upstate NY from time to time and just thinking about some of the bigger companies...Welch Allyn, Carrier, Harris...... I'd say half the lobbies had a sign saying to call your contact to come get you. No secretary/admin at all. Of those who did have someone (think Harris, military supplier) the people in the lobby were security, not admin.

Perhaps apply for security jobs at the bigger companies. From what I've seen, they're not gun carrying police people, they're there to help you with the tablet to key in your info and print out your badge, then chase down whoever you're there to see. Some are not company employees, but hired out to firms like Securitas. Maybe look into security companies?
Secretaries/front end lobby/cashiers that they look for, are young, slim, single, no hour restrictions, in 18-30s. There are there to attract more businesses. A lot of them know basic computing skills, type 50+ wpm no problem since that's all they do in middle school-high school nowadays. OP is already well past that age. So age discrimination is a major factor as well when looking at entry level jobs.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by mptfan » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:37 pm

Watty wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:20 am
My impression is that the traditional job as a secretary or administrative assistant is in decline as people do more of that work themself with computers and smartphones. If you come across as not being real savvy about the latest apps and computers that could be a problem.
I agree with this. If you are not current on the latest productivity software applications like Microsoft Office and G Suite then you have a problem. Knowing how to type is not good enough anymore.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by dbr » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:39 pm

What about all the receptionists and desk people in doctors and dentists office's. There are people of all ages and appearance in those jobs and I can't believe there is some specific typing or software skill you have to have to be hired. Maybe the pay is not what the OP is looking for.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by mptfan » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:45 pm

dbr wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:39 pm
What about all the receptionists and desk people in doctors and dentists office's.
In my experience "receptionist" (or "desk people" as you describe them) is a very different position than "administrative assistant" and have different job qualifications.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by dm200 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:49 pm

Momus wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:10 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:07 pm
I think a key has been hit on. Companies rarely use secretaries/admins anymore compared to years past. I cover upstate NY from time to time and just thinking about some of the bigger companies...Welch Allyn, Carrier, Harris...... I'd say half the lobbies had a sign saying to call your contact to come get you. No secretary/admin at all. Of those who did have someone (think Harris, military supplier) the people in the lobby were security, not admin.
Perhaps apply for security jobs at the bigger companies. From what I've seen, they're not gun carrying police people, they're there to help you with the tablet to key in your info and print out your badge, then chase down whoever you're there to see. Some are not company employees, but hired out to firms like Securitas. Maybe look into security companies?
Secretaries/front end lobby/cashiers that they look for, are young, slim, single, no hour restrictions, in 18-30s. There are there to attract more businesses. A lot of them know basic computing skills, type 50+ wpm no problem since that's all they do in middle school-high school nowadays. OP is already well past that age. So age discrimination is a major factor as well when looking at entry level jobs.
My how the role (or no role) of "Secretaries" has changed over the decades!! On my first job out of college for Mega Corp, every department (perhaps 10-15 professional IT employees) had one or two "Secretaries" (always female and usually young). They typed letters and other things for us (and made corrections and revisions until 100% 'perfect'), ordered and maintained office supplies, answered phones, took messages, and so on. As I recall, they were always busy. In that very "bureaucratic" Mega Corp, they would also, upon request, deliver a cup of coffee (on a small tray) to the manager - or, perhaps 2 cups if that manager was meeting with an employee or guest. This was before there were any kind of even the most basic "word processing" machines/typewriters could save a document for correction. If there was even one, small correction needed to a letter or page of a document, she would have to type the whole page again- from scratch.

Today, at the headquarters office of my employer, there are about 50-75 employees. With voice mail, PCs, WORD, Excel, PowerPoint, and so on - the only thing even close to a "Secretary" (as in the old days) is the assistant to the company CEO.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by mptfan » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:52 pm

dm200 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:49 pm
My how the role (or no role) of "Secretaries" has changed over the decades!! ... they would also, upon request, deliver a cup of coffee (on a small tray) to the manager - or, perhaps 2 cups if that manager was meeting with an employee or guest.
I think a male boss would be accused of sexual harassment today if he asked his female administrative assistant to get him a cup of coffee.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by dbr » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:52 pm

mptfan wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:45 pm
dbr wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:39 pm
What about all the receptionists and desk people in doctors and dentists office's.
In my experience "receptionist" (or "desk people" as you describe them) is a very different position than "administrative assistant" and have different job qualifications.
Right, of course, if one is getting nowhere with a very narrowly defined job position, then it makes sense to widen the field a little. My main point is that it just isn't so that only women who are "young and attractive" can get hired. If the salary doesn't appeal, then that is fine, however a position like that could also be an entree to a higher level placement, at least in a larger office such as a large clinic or hospital.

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dm200
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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by dm200 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:00 pm

Secretaries/front end lobby/cashiers that they look for, are young, slim, single, no hour restrictions, in 18-30s. There are there to attract more businesses. A lot of them know basic computing skills, type 50+ wpm no problem since that's all they do in middle school-high school nowadays. OP is already well past that age. So age discrimination is a major factor as well when looking at entry level jobs.
It has been a long time, but I suspect that high ranking military officers still have the traditional "Secretaries" or "receptionists". Back when I was an enlisted guy in the US Navy - working in a large office building in the Washington DC area, I was very puzzled how these high ranking Navy officers always had very attractive enlisted women as their "Secretaries." I never saw any such young women who were not at least "very attractive". This was still the days of punched IBM cards - even with large mainframe IBM computers. I was discussing this "puzzle" to me with another more "seasoned" Navy enlisted guy. He told me the way this was done - somebody (surely a guy) in the record keeping system (punched cards, tape drives, disk drives, etc.) records would use a certain, not documented, column on the 80 character punched card, to "rate" the attractiveness of enlisted Navy women. This "rating system" was not documented, but was known and used "informally". So, then without ever seeing her in person, the Captain or Admiral could know this information. In my role, at the time, I never actually saw the code being used.

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dm200
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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by dm200 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:03 pm

mptfan wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:52 pm
dm200 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:49 pm
My how the role (or no role) of "Secretaries" has changed over the decades!! ... they would also, upon request, deliver a cup of coffee (on a small tray) to the manager - or, perhaps 2 cups if that manager was meeting with an employee or guest.
I think a male boss would be accused of sexual harassment today if he asked his female administrative assistant to get him a cup of coffee.
Yes - probably very true! Or, perhaps, throw the hot coffee at him - or just "slip" and have the coffee go all over the place. Just shows how much things have changed over the years.

I never made it to being a "manager" or even "manager level" at MegaCorp - so I had to get my own cup of coffee - unless it was a meeting with my manager.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by Tamarind » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:04 pm

mptfan wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:45 pm
dbr wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:39 pm
What about all the receptionists and desk people in doctors and dentists office's.
In my experience "receptionist" (or "desk people" as you describe them) is a very different position than "administrative assistant" and have different job qualifications.
Also, the folks at medical/dental office are all medical billing/coding workers who shot up front and handle reception on the side, in my experience.

But medical coding is another feasible job path that the OP could train for at a community college and that has a lot of job openings.

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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by Texanbybirth » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:10 pm

dm200 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:49 pm
Momus wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:10 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:07 pm
I think a key has been hit on. Companies rarely use secretaries/admins anymore compared to years past. I cover upstate NY from time to time and just thinking about some of the bigger companies...Welch Allyn, Carrier, Harris...... I'd say half the lobbies had a sign saying to call your contact to come get you. No secretary/admin at all. Of those who did have someone (think Harris, military supplier) the people in the lobby were security, not admin.
Perhaps apply for security jobs at the bigger companies. From what I've seen, they're not gun carrying police people, they're there to help you with the tablet to key in your info and print out your badge, then chase down whoever you're there to see. Some are not company employees, but hired out to firms like Securitas. Maybe look into security companies?
Secretaries/front end lobby/cashiers that they look for, are young, slim, single, no hour restrictions, in 18-30s. There are there to attract more businesses. A lot of them know basic computing skills, type 50+ wpm no problem since that's all they do in middle school-high school nowadays. OP is already well past that age. So age discrimination is a major factor as well when looking at entry level jobs.
My how the role (or no role) of "Secretaries" has changed over the decades!! On my first job out of college for Mega Corp, every department (perhaps 10-15 professional IT employees) had one or two "Secretaries" (always female and usually young). They typed letters and other things for us (and made corrections and revisions until 100% 'perfect'), ordered and maintained office supplies, answered phones, took messages, and so on. As I recall, they were always busy. In that very "bureaucratic" Mega Corp, they would also, upon request, deliver a cup of coffee (on a small tray) to the manager - or, perhaps 2 cups if that manager was meeting with an employee or guest. This was before there were any kind of even the most basic "word processing" machines/typewriters could save a document for correction. If there was even one, small correction needed to a letter or page of a document, she would have to type the whole page again- from scratch.

Today, at the headquarters office of my employer, there are about 50-75 employees. With voice mail, PCs, WORD, Excel, PowerPoint, and so on - the only thing even close to a "Secretary" (as in the old days) is the assistant to the company CEO.
We have three of those "types" of people (all women) in our office. They do all of the aforementioned tasks for us, and they are quite indispensable. (See weeks when two of them decide to take vacation at the same time. *gasp*)

My mom did that her entire life, met presidents/currently famous tech giants/movie stars, and now she has retired with quite a comfortable financial position. Till the day she retired she never wanted to be called an "executive assistant" but always wanted to be called a "secretary". Actually reminds me of "The Remains of the Day" in a way. :beer
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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by TN_Boy » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:21 pm

Momus wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:53 pm
dm200 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:56 pm
Momus wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:49 pm
Gig jobs like doordash/Uber/lyft will give you $15-30/hr BEFORE expenses. Set your own hours, no benefit. Something to think about.
I have not done detailed calculations, but I suspect the actual "expenses" are higher than it might appear. Some folks I know, for example, do not "count" the wear and tear, and increased depreciation of their vehicle as an evaluated cost.

In our locality, I just saw an advertisement and push for hiring school crossing guards. They work about 13 hours a week and are paid between $15 and $23 per hour. [Not sure how rate of pay is decided]. Not for everyone - since that is every school day - in the mornings and afternoons.

As I drive around the area, I see a lot of such crossing guards that appear to be in the "retired" age group.
I made $7000 driving around putting about 6k miles to my car in about 1.5 months, about 15% of income going to gas. I get toy money without touching my real job money. Yea yea but depreciation, but it's still money. If I keep going I'll make 21k in 4.5 months putting 18k mileage and that basically pays off the car entirely. At 0.58 cents/mile deduction and deduct your phone cost/bill, you don't pay much at all in tax. It's not a bad gig for low skilled worker.

Edit 2: forgot to deduct 1k miles going to my real job, so it's actually 6k miles for $7000.
Is the 7k net of state, Fed, and FICA taxes, or is that gross revenue minus expenses? Also, how many hours did it take to get that?

MrDrinkingWater
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Re: Why won’t anyone hire me?

Post by MrDrinkingWater » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:25 pm

I read through this thread. There have been a lot of good ideas shared. This was mentioned indirectly, but I want to amplify that there are some jobs that aren't just advertised in every town or city.

Are there a lot of older citizens in your community? I ask because my Dear Mother needed help when she was in her 80's, and helping her was really an unadvertised job. Dear Mother mentioned to her pastor that she could use someone one day a week to help her with shopping, and driving her around town, and that she could pay the going rate for that kind of help, but didn't know anyone, etc. The long story short is that the pastor knew of a parishioner who needed part-time work, and matched the parishioner needing part-time work to help my Dear Mother. So, I agree with the many other members here who have suggested that you expand your network to friends-of-friends, etc.

Good luck! I will be hopeful that you will be back in the workforce soon.

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