How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

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sschoe2
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by sschoe2 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:35 am

Personally I would buy a cheap beater for you kid. My first car was a 10 year old Mazda my parents bought from my Aunt for $2k.

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kramer
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by kramer » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:55 am

willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:18 pm
Watty wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:13 pm
It might seem obvious but make sure that he will be allowed to have a car as a freshman and he will be able to get a parking space for it. At some colleges parking is in very short supply and there is a lottery to see who will get one. At some colleges parking can also cost hundreds of dollars a semester.
It can be worse than that. Many universities do not allow freshmen or sophomores to have vehicles parked on campus at all unless they are disabled. The reason for this is partly availability of parking spaces and partly an effort to avoid a 'commuter culture'.
Yes, plus the earlier comment mentioned about Uber/Lyft.

When I was 17 and was going to start college, my dad asked me how much money I had saved up and we budgeted based on that. I put it in an inflation calculator and I bought a use car for about $4500 in today's money which lasted several years. Of course, I saved a lot of that money driving their cars to my workplace, etc.

On top of all of this, way back in 1994 in graduate school on an Ivy league campus, I was the only graduate student that I knew that even had a car (over half the class was international students). A car was actually a burden at times. My bike was much more important to my daily life. But now, with Uber/Lyft, I wouldn't even have considered bringing my vehicle.

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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:28 am

KlingKlang wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:33 am
We normally drive American cars out of respect for my father who served in WWII and I thought that we would get her a Chevy Cruze, but the difference in price and quality was too much to ignore.
Ah.....there's a can of worms. My mom felt the same way after my dad passed. She bought a Ford Fusion in 2009. It was built in Mexico. She didn't know that. She replaced it last summer with a Subaru Legacy. It was built in Lafayette, Indiana. Last I checked, that's still in the United States.

There was a list floating around of actual models and % of US content. I took a look, expecting the F-150 to be flying high. It wasn't. Mid pack with lots of Hondas, Hyundais, Nissans and Toyotas beating it out. The most US content was in a Toyota. Forget the model.

Back when the gas guzzler tax came to being, the law exempted cars with above a certain % of foreign content to keep the Mitsubishis sold by Chrysler and Suzukis sold by GM from cheating them above the corporate average fuel economy number. Ford was right smart and took it's Crown Vic and changed a number of suppliers from US to foreign to bring it's % above the import mark, taking that car off of the list of what's counted for US content cars to meet CAFE.
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by bloom2708 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:23 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:28 am
KlingKlang wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:33 am
We normally drive American cars out of respect for my father who served in WWII and I thought that we would get her a Chevy Cruze, but the difference in price and quality was too much to ignore.
Ah.....there's a can of worms. My mom felt the same way after my dad passed. She bought a Ford Fusion in 2009. It was built in Mexico. She didn't know that. She replaced it last summer with a Subaru Legacy. It was built in Lafayette, Indiana. Last I checked, that's still in the United States.

There was a list floating around of actual models and % of US content. I took a look, expecting the F-150 to be flying high. It wasn't. Mid pack with lots of Hondas, Hyundais, Nissans and Toyotas beating it out. The most US content was in a Toyota. Forget the model.

Back when the gas guzzler tax came to being, the law exempted cars with above a certain % of foreign content to keep the Mitsubishis sold by Chrysler and Suzukis sold by GM from cheating them above the corporate average fuel economy number. Ford was right smart and took it's Crown Vic and changed a number of suppliers from US to foreign to bring it's % above the import mark, taking that car off of the list of what's counted for US content cars to meet CAFE.
But isn't Ford an American company and Subaru a Japanese company? Net profits end up returning to the country of the company. Taxes and payrolls and lots of things going on.

We don't consider Apple a Chinese company because they make their phones/PCs in China.

Nothing is straight forward, but I'd still consider Ford and American company and Toyota, Honda, Subaru Japanese companies.

Not that it really matters. Buy the car you want for the reasons that suit the individual.
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kate1234
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by kate1234 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:43 pm

Consumer Reports has a couple of articles on buying a car for teens and the criteria they recommend, like having it be zippy enough to get them out of a bad situation, but not so zippy they are tempted to hotrod around town. They also suggest that you think about doing the opposite of what has been suggested here: get the kid a new car with all the new safety features, particularly emergency braking and collision warning, and keep the old clunker for yourself. Those safety features are proven to save lives and are arguably more useful for a newer driver than an experienced one like yourself.

Here's one: https://www.consumerreports.org/video/v ... your-teen/

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Kenkat
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by Kenkat » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:45 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:14 am
My parents let me buy their old AMC Gremlin when in college. I loved that car!
A college girlfriend of two years had a blue 74 (or so) Gremlin with a 3 speed manual. Was a great little car. Neither it nor the relationship made it out of college though... :D

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by TomatoTomahto » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:57 pm

Liberty1100 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:18 am
I highly suggest a car that is safe.
Check out the IIHS safety rating.
Check out the NHTSA rating.
Research and test drive the safety features: Blind spot detection, adaptive cruise control, pre-collision detection braking.
Getting into an accident could cause serious harm to him and to others. Pay the money to do your best to prevent it.
+1

People think we spoiled our kids by buying them new cars. As I explained to the kids, the cars were expensive as a gift to us not them. I didn’t want to worry, every time the phone rang, that it would be a call that every parent dreads. They actually never got into any accidents, but if they had, I didn’t want to think “of only I’d ...”

Only one of them “needed” a car at college (a rural school), and the other one didn’t even want a car at his urban campus. The other part of the gift was that the one with a car could bring his stuff back and forth without relying on us.
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by WildBill » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:07 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:08 pm
livesoft wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:06 pm
Our kids were given the oldest car in the family at the time they graduated from college. Before that, they had no cars.

So the question was not "How do you decide what car to buy for you kid?" but "What kind of car do you buy for yourself?"
Same here.
Howdy

Kid gets the 8 year old Ford.

Mom gets the new Lexus with another insurance premium.

I get the bills.

Happy motoring

W B
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by Dottie57 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:28 pm

Kenkat wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:45 pm
Dottie57 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:14 am
My parents let me buy their old AMC Gremlin when in college. I loved that car!
A college girlfriend of two years had a blue 74 (or so) Gremlin with a 3 speed manual. Was a great little car. Neither it nor the relationship made it out of college though... :D
Mine made it out of college. My brother is the one who destroyed it!

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sunny_socal
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by sunny_socal » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:46 pm

Kids get our old cars:
- 2007 Honda Pilot (140k miles)
OR
- 2015 Honda Accord (150k miles)

Both vehicles are 'safe' even from BH perspective: Seatbelts, airbags, ABS brakes, ESC.

They are free to save up with the earnings from their summer jobs if they want something like a Tacoma.

H-Town
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by H-Town » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:11 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:57 pm
Liberty1100 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:18 am
I highly suggest a car that is safe.
Check out the IIHS safety rating.
Check out the NHTSA rating.
Research and test drive the safety features: Blind spot detection, adaptive cruise control, pre-collision detection braking.
Getting into an accident could cause serious harm to him and to others. Pay the money to do your best to prevent it.
+1

People think we spoiled our kids by buying them new cars. As I explained to the kids, the cars were expensive as a gift to us not them. I didn’t want to worry, every time the phone rang, that it would be a call that every parent dreads. They actually never got into any accidents, but if they had, I didn’t want to think “of only I’d ...”

Only one of them “needed” a car at college (a rural school), and the other one didn’t even want a car at his urban campus. The other part of the gift was that the one with a car could bring his stuff back and forth without relying on us.
Must be nice. Did your kid get a Tesla with autopilot?

Money solves a lot of issues, right? Just until it doesn't. It's easy to buy a new car with full safety system and give it to the kids. It's more difficult to spend time and teach them to drive defensively and with courtesy. But it's even better if you can do both: teach your kids to be defensive driver in a Tesla Model X. What good of money if it cannot buy you some feeling of security?

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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by Texanbybirth » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:42 pm

WildBill wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:07 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:08 pm
livesoft wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:06 pm
Our kids were given the oldest car in the family at the time they graduated from college. Before that, they had no cars.

So the question was not "How do you decide what car to buy for you kid?" but "What kind of car do you buy for yourself?"
Same here.
Howdy

Kid gets the 8 year old Ford.

Mom gets the new Lexus with another insurance premium.

I get the bills.

Happy motoring

W B
Lol

+1, same for me (as the kid; our kids aren't old enough for me to go through with this yet).
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by TomatoTomahto » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:42 pm

H-town, Kids didn’t get Tesla Model X. They did get expensive safe cars with safety features but not autopilot (adaptive cruise control is close). Volvo XC60s to be precise.

I will assume that you gave me the benefit of the doubt that I taught my kids defensive driving. I did mention that they hadn’t had any accidents; no totaling the beater stories from me. My kids have never driven while impaired (to my knowledge, and when they lived at home, I was observant). They usually were the designated driver, in part because they knew how I’d react if they got into a friend’s car who had been drinking. They also had complete freedom to call me, any time of day or night, if they were impaired in the slightest.

I sure hope you were sincere when you asked “what good is money if it can’t buy you some sense of security?” Because sometimes, posters aren’t sincere about that, and it becomes class warfare along the lines of “must be nice.” I get that we are lucky, but my point was that WE are lucky, more so than the kids who honestly are “post car” in their thinking. Kids nowadays, at least my kids and their tribe, don’t care about cars the way we did. My offer of a Tesla graduation present was declined; “hey dad, who needs a car when you’ve got Uber?”

Back to my point: give kids the safest car you can afford to give them, within reason. Teach them how to drive well. Have zero tolerance for impaired (alcohol, texting, drugs) driving, but be non judgmental about being asked to pick them up if they don’t feel 100% able to drive.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

stoptothink
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by stoptothink » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:44 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:28 pm
Kenkat wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:45 pm
Dottie57 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:14 am
My parents let me buy their old AMC Gremlin when in college. I loved that car!
A college girlfriend of two years had a blue 74 (or so) Gremlin with a 3 speed manual. Was a great little car. Neither it nor the relationship made it out of college though... :D
Mine made it out of college. My brother is the one who destroyed it!
One of my best friends in high school had a gremlin, the one with the Levi's denim interior. The gas gauge didn't work so I had the opportunity to push that car long distances to gas stations on a handful of occasions. I graduated in '98.

rj342
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by rj342 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:51 pm

IMO you want reasonable safety and reliability, but also NOT so nice a car that when they get their first job out of college that anything but a nicer new car is a step down/backwards.
Also, you don't want something they're truly embarrassed to be seen in BUT don't need something so sporty that insurance is even worse, or that may encourage them to drive more recklessly/aggressively.
Nothing wrong in their learning to not look a gift horse in the mouth. Also avoid feeding the urge to keep up with the Jones.
I do find it interesting how often otherwise reasonably modest spenders may splurge on a teens car, as if they are living vicariously through them. Also case of Daddy's little girl getting spoiled like that, then setting her up to expecting kid who married her to have to meet or beat those expectations out of the gate. I've seen it happen.
Last edited by rj342 on Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

H-Town
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by H-Town » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:53 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:42 pm
My offer of a Tesla graduation present was declined; “hey dad, who needs a car when you’ve got Uber?”
I'm with you 100%.

And this response from your kid is priceless. I love it!

psteinx
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by psteinx » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:58 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:42 pm
H-town, Kids didn’t get Tesla Model X. They did get expensive safe cars with safety features but not autopilot (adaptive cruise control is close). Volvo XC60s to be precise.
Sending your kids off to college in $45K SUVs has other impacts upon them, beyond the safety improvement vs. a $25K or $20K or $15K new car or even a $10K or $5K used car. I leave it as an exercise for the reader to contemplate the nature and magnitude of those impacts...

H-Town
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by H-Town » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:07 pm

psteinx wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:58 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:42 pm
H-town, Kids didn’t get Tesla Model X. They did get expensive safe cars with safety features but not autopilot (adaptive cruise control is close). Volvo XC60s to be precise.
Sending your kids off to college in $45K SUVs has other impacts upon them, beyond the safety improvement vs. a $25K or $20K or $15K new car or even a $10K or $5K used car. I leave it as an exercise for the reader to contemplate the nature and magnitude of those impacts...
My thought is that this is all relative. When kids grow up in an affluent family, they don't really think $45K is an expensive toy. As long as parents can teach children their value and principles, this is all that matters.

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Socrates
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by Socrates » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:09 pm

Make sure it is not super nice as they are likely to be in an accident or do some sort of damage (forget change oil, vandalized dorm parking lot, overheat, etc.

High mileage subaru, toyota are honda. All very reliable, low maintenance with high gas mileage. As Will said, set parameters and let them pick it out. Keep in mind insurance premiums for certain cars.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by TomatoTomahto » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:13 pm

psteinx wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:58 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:42 pm
H-town, Kids didn’t get Tesla Model X. They did get expensive safe cars with safety features but not autopilot (adaptive cruise control is close). Volvo XC60s to be precise.
Sending your kids off to college in $45K SUVs has other impacts upon them, beyond the safety improvement vs. a $25K or $20K or $15K new car or even a $10K or $5K used car. I leave it as an exercise for the reader to contemplate the nature and magnitude of those impacts...
In my small sample, I have no complaints. It was made clear to the kids that it was for our comfort that they drove those cars. FWIW, the grad is well launched and lives far below his means.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by TomatoTomahto » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:18 pm

H-Town wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:53 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:42 pm
My offer of a Tesla graduation present was declined; “hey dad, who needs a car when you’ve got Uber?”
I'm with you 100%.
And this response from your kid is priceless. I love it!
:D he didn’t even bring a bike to NYC; 5 floor walk up and a 3 digit amount (iirc $180/month) to rent a parking spot for a bike.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

cshell2
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by cshell2 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:33 pm

tadamsmar wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:26 am
cshell2 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:57 am
tadamsmar wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:50 am
cshell2 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:40 am
Also, I found insurance on anything but a beater for a teen boy was crazy expensive. We're talking $200/month plus for full coverage on a car a few years old. We pay $65/month for just liability on a car not worth paying for collision.
You can call your insurance agent and get quotes. I think you would be surprised. Features that prevent a large proportion of accidents like ESC reduce rates a lot.
We did. In fact, I asked him exactly what to buy. That's how we ended up with an old mid-size sedan with liability only.
That's a good way to do it, you get a cheaper rate and it would tend to be a relatively safe car (I think).

What is the make, model, and year of the sedan?
97 Toyota Camry. So a lot older than DS. But, I only paid $1000 for it and it's been running great for a year now.

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wander
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by wander » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:02 pm

Your kids are lucky. Nobody gave me a car. I earned to buy my first one ($4,200).

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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by ncbill » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:01 am

cshell2 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:40 am
mike_in_ny wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:23 am
I'm going to propose a different option that while not Boglehead-like is worth considering:
lease a new low end car. If you look at stripped down cars Civics, Hyundai, etc, you can
often get a brand new car with all the latest safety features and without any headaches
of maintenance for less than $200/m.

The total cost for three years even for a $200/m payment is ~ $7k....In my view this
isn't bad.
Until you have to turn in that car that a teen has been driving and pay a premium for every ding and spilled coffee stain. :happy

Also, I found insurance on anything but a beater for a teen boy was crazy expensive. We're talking $200/month plus for full coverage on a car a few years old. We pay $65/month for just liability on a car not worth paying for collision.
Paid $500 for $5000 worth of "wear & tear" coverage...rolled into the monthly payment.

Most captive lenders aren't bad about minor things, but I'm using a non-captive (much higher residual than captive = significantly lower payment) & they are very picky about the condition of their lease returns.

And it was nice that one of my kids' school didn't permit freshmen or sophomores to have a vehicle period, on or off campus.

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tadamsmar
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by tadamsmar » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:24 am

My kids are grown, but if I was buying a car for a kid now, I would probably choose from this list:

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/safe-vehic ... teens#good

Or seek out a similar sedan with ESC. The cheapest cars on that list are over $3700. Not sure you can go lower than that and get ESC.

I don't think it makes sense to give your kid a car with a 33% higher driver fatality rate than the one you are driving. I think that is what a lot of parents are doing these days.

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elcadarj
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by elcadarj » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:30 am

Latest model non-sporty manual transmission you can find, e.g. Forrester, non-STI Focus. Forces better attention to driving: tough to juggle cell phone and stick shift at the same time. Buddies can't borrow it.

RJC
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by RJC » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:35 am

Kids should get hand-me downs for sure. But what if you currently drive a luxury car? I don't think I would want my kids driving one as their first car.

cshell2
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by cshell2 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:04 am

tadamsmar wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:24 am
My kids are grown, but if I was buying a car for a kid now, I would probably choose from this list:

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/safe-vehic ... teens#good

Or seek out a similar sedan with ESC. The cheapest cars on that list are over $3700. Not sure you can go lower than that and get ESC.

I don't think it makes sense to give your kid a car with a 33% higher driver fatality rate than the one you are driving. I think that is what a lot of parents are doing these days.
I don't get too excited about stats. I was pregnant with my second at age 41 and all I ever read was about how my baby was 10X more likely to suffer from such and such. In reality the odds were still less than 1%. A 33% greater driver fatality rate? Meh. FWIW, I drive a 2005 with no worries about not having ESC.

mikemikemike
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by mikemikemike » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:15 am

Factors:

1) Safety (and relatedly: reliability).
2) Cheap to buy, insure and operate.
3) Ability to haul gear around for their hobbies (boats, bikes, boards, etc.)

Those are the factors.

Something like a Subaru Impreza or Forester fits that bill for my family. YMMV.

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tadamsmar
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by tadamsmar » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:54 am

cshell2 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:04 am
tadamsmar wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:24 am
My kids are grown, but if I was buying a car for a kid now, I would probably choose from this list:

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/safe-vehic ... teens#good

Or seek out a similar sedan with ESC. The cheapest cars on that list are over $3700. Not sure you can go lower than that and get ESC.

I don't think it makes sense to give your kid a car with a 33% higher driver fatality rate than the one you are driving. I think that is what a lot of parents are doing these days.
I don't get too excited about stats. I was pregnant with my second at age 41 and all I ever read was about how my baby was 10X more likely to suffer from such and such. In reality the odds were still less than 1%. A 33% greater driver fatality rate? Meh. FWIW, I drive a 2005 with no worries about not having ESC.
Is ignoring risk-benefit for all risks that are <1% always the correct thing to do?

Not sure what the lesson is here.

cshell2
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by cshell2 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:27 am

tadamsmar wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:54 am
cshell2 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:04 am
tadamsmar wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:24 am
My kids are grown, but if I was buying a car for a kid now, I would probably choose from this list:

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/safe-vehic ... teens#good

Or seek out a similar sedan with ESC. The cheapest cars on that list are over $3700. Not sure you can go lower than that and get ESC.

I don't think it makes sense to give your kid a car with a 33% higher driver fatality rate than the one you are driving. I think that is what a lot of parents are doing these days.
I don't get too excited about stats. I was pregnant with my second at age 41 and all I ever read was about how my baby was 10X more likely to suffer from such and such. In reality the odds were still less than 1%. A 33% greater driver fatality rate? Meh. FWIW, I drive a 2005 with no worries about not having ESC.
Is ignoring risk-benefit for all risks that are <1% always the correct thing to do?

Not sure what the lesson is here.
Nope. I'm sure it's not. But getting hung up on infinitesimal differences isn't always the correct thing either. I'm just saying I don't get nervous about driving a 14 year old car with my kids in back one bit.

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tadamsmar
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by tadamsmar » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:45 am

cshell2 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:27 am
tadamsmar wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:54 am
cshell2 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:04 am
tadamsmar wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:24 am
My kids are grown, but if I was buying a car for a kid now, I would probably choose from this list:

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/safe-vehic ... teens#good

Or seek out a similar sedan with ESC. The cheapest cars on that list are over $3700. Not sure you can go lower than that and get ESC.

I don't think it makes sense to give your kid a car with a 33% higher driver fatality rate than the one you are driving. I think that is what a lot of parents are doing these days.
I don't get too excited about stats. I was pregnant with my second at age 41 and all I ever read was about how my baby was 10X more likely to suffer from such and such. In reality the odds were still less than 1%. A 33% greater driver fatality rate? Meh. FWIW, I drive a 2005 with no worries about not having ESC.
Is ignoring risk-benefit for all risks that are <1% always the correct thing to do?

Not sure what the lesson is here.
Nope. I'm sure it's not. But getting hung up on infinitesimal differences isn't always the correct thing either. I'm just saying I don't get nervous about driving a 14 year old car with my kids in back one bit.
Should a risk-benefit calculation be equated to feeling nervous?

cshell2
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by cshell2 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:11 pm

tadamsmar wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:45 am
cshell2 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:27 am
tadamsmar wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:54 am
cshell2 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:04 am
tadamsmar wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:24 am
My kids are grown, but if I was buying a car for a kid now, I would probably choose from this list:

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/safe-vehic ... teens#good

Or seek out a similar sedan with ESC. The cheapest cars on that list are over $3700. Not sure you can go lower than that and get ESC.

I don't think it makes sense to give your kid a car with a 33% higher driver fatality rate than the one you are driving. I think that is what a lot of parents are doing these days.
I don't get too excited about stats. I was pregnant with my second at age 41 and all I ever read was about how my baby was 10X more likely to suffer from such and such. In reality the odds were still less than 1%. A 33% greater driver fatality rate? Meh. FWIW, I drive a 2005 with no worries about not having ESC.
Is ignoring risk-benefit for all risks that are <1% always the correct thing to do?

Not sure what the lesson is here.
Nope. I'm sure it's not. But getting hung up on infinitesimal differences isn't always the correct thing either. I'm just saying I don't get nervous about driving a 14 year old car with my kids in back one bit.
Should a risk-benefit calculation be equated to feeling nervous?
Isn't risk tolerance usually a part of any risk-benefit equation?

WhiteMaxima
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by WhiteMaxima » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:22 pm

I bought a used 2008 Mazda3 hatchback for my college kid. It is my favorite small hatch back time. I even helped the engineering of this Ford C1 back in Germany. It is a very puppy dynamic car powered with a Mazda 4 cylinder engine. The styling is very much Porsche style. My daughter will become a airplane pilot and I am sure she will have a sporty car on the ground. I already have a Nissan Maxima V6 5MT but I always dream about owning a Mazda3. It will be same as my daughter has that.

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tadamsmar
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by tadamsmar » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:04 pm

cshell2 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:11 pm
tadamsmar wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:45 am
cshell2 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:27 am
tadamsmar wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:54 am
cshell2 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:04 am


I don't get too excited about stats. I was pregnant with my second at age 41 and all I ever read was about how my baby was 10X more likely to suffer from such and such. In reality the odds were still less than 1%. A 33% greater driver fatality rate? Meh. FWIW, I drive a 2005 with no worries about not having ESC.
Is ignoring risk-benefit for all risks that are <1% always the correct thing to do?

Not sure what the lesson is here.
Nope. I'm sure it's not. But getting hung up on infinitesimal differences isn't always the correct thing either. I'm just saying I don't get nervous about driving a 14 year old car with my kids in back one bit.
Should a risk-benefit calculation be equated to feeling nervous?
Isn't risk tolerance usually a part of any risk-benefit equation?
It depends on what the meaning of "risk tolerance" is.

Here is an example of the risk-benefit equation: Consider a 1997 Camry vs 2009 Jetta with ESC. The Jetta cost $2800 more. Assume the kid's fatality risk is around 1/1700 for not having ESC for the full vehicle exposure period. $2800 * 1700 = $4.76 million. If the kid's life is worth more than $4.76 million then the parent buys the Jetta.

Is risk tolerance a part of that risk-benefit equation?

(I personally would not be nervous about spending a mere $2800 in this context even if the math is a bit fuzzy, so measures of nervousness would not help me make the decision.)

cshell2
Posts: 288
Joined: Thu May 09, 2019 10:29 am

Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by cshell2 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:27 pm

tadamsmar wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:04 pm
cshell2 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:11 pm
tadamsmar wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:45 am
cshell2 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:27 am
tadamsmar wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:54 am


Is ignoring risk-benefit for all risks that are <1% always the correct thing to do?

Not sure what the lesson is here.
Nope. I'm sure it's not. But getting hung up on infinitesimal differences isn't always the correct thing either. I'm just saying I don't get nervous about driving a 14 year old car with my kids in back one bit.
Should a risk-benefit calculation be equated to feeling nervous?
Isn't risk tolerance usually a part of any risk-benefit equation?
It depends on what the meaning of "risk tolerance" is.

Here is an example of the risk-benefit equation: Consider a 1997 Camry vs 2009 Jetta with ESC. The Jetta cost $2800 more. Assume the kid's fatality risk is around 1/1700 for not having ESC for the full vehicle exposure period. $2800 * 1700 = $4.76 million. If the kid's life is worth more than $4.76 million then the parent buys the Jetta.

Is risk tolerance a part of that risk-benefit equation?

(I personally would not be nervous about spending a mere $2800 in this context even if the math is a bit fuzzy, so measures of nervousness would not help me make the decision.)

Why stop there? Surely a 2019 is safer than a 2009? Or is your kid not worth that much?

vg55
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by vg55 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:39 pm

I bought my own first car when I was a Junior in College. It cost me $25, it had a stubborn will to live and took care of my travel needs for 2 years.

We never bought a car for our son. After my son had graduated from college and was starting law school we gifted him our 12 year old Subaru rather than trade it in at the time.

I am all in favor of letting the next generation figure it out for themselves.

magicj
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by magicj » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:00 pm

livesoft wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:06 pm
Our kids were given the oldest car in the family at the time they graduated from college. Before that, they had no cars.

So the question was not "How do you decide what car to buy for you kid?" but "What kind of car do you buy for yourself?"
Our daughter just turned 2. We just bought a new highlander. It will be hers in 2033 assuming everything goes as planned. Ha ha

Bb073084
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by Bb073084 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:04 pm

I second the hand me down car. As long as the car runs and has decent safety equipment (airbags/working seat belts). Also want a reliable car so cannot be so old it might break down somewhere but your kid will likely trash the car or potentially get in an accident with it so safety should be top of mind along with avoiding spending too much on an asset that will depreciate even faster than normal.

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tadamsmar
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by tadamsmar » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:05 pm

cshell2 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:27 pm
tadamsmar wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:04 pm
cshell2 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:11 pm
tadamsmar wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:45 am
cshell2 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:27 am


Nope. I'm sure it's not. But getting hung up on infinitesimal differences isn't always the correct thing either. I'm just saying I don't get nervous about driving a 14 year old car with my kids in back one bit.
Should a risk-benefit calculation be equated to feeling nervous?
Isn't risk tolerance usually a part of any risk-benefit equation?
It depends on what the meaning of "risk tolerance" is.

Here is an example of the risk-benefit equation: Consider a 1997 Camry vs 2009 Jetta with ESC. The Jetta cost $2800 more. Assume the kid's fatality risk is around 1/1700 for not having ESC for the full vehicle exposure period. $2800 * 1700 = $4.76 million. If the kid's life is worth more than $4.76 million then the parent buys the Jetta.

Is risk tolerance a part of that risk-benefit equation?

(I personally would not be nervous about spending a mere $2800 in this context even if the math is a bit fuzzy, so measures of nervousness would not help me make the decision.)
Why stop there? Surely a 2019 is safer than a 2009? Or is your kid not worth that much?
I don't know of any safety features since 2009 that have measured driver fatality reductions.

The NHTSA has mandated no new safety features that improve driver safety since 2009, except for ESC which was mandated in 2012.

It's just theory that any of the newer stuff increases driver safety (as far as I know).
Last edited by tadamsmar on Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:04 am, edited 3 times in total.

livesoft
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by livesoft » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:21 pm

The OP has posted just once and not come back and reacted to the suggestions given.

Welcome to the Bogleheads.org forum! :)
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tadamsmar
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Re: How do you decide what car to buy for your kid

Post by tadamsmar » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:37 pm

livesoft wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:21 pm
The OP has posted just once and not come back and reacted to the suggestions given.

Welcome to the Bogleheads.org forum! :)
Perhaps his old beater skidded out of control and...

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