Potential New Job

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Thegame14
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Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 11:53 am

Potential New Job

Post by Thegame14 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:36 pm

I have had a choppy work history due to two layoffs, one for having surgery, another for taking paternity leave during CFO change and another for asking CFO to not refer to an employee as "The Mexican", so job security is always a worry. I also have had many jobs promise work/life balance but then once you take the job, it is always not the case, so that is another sensitive area. I took current job at a non-for-profit due to job security, supposedly no one ever gets fired or leaves, so I took less pay than market but I also have above average benefits. Work pays 90% of health insurance premium (wife's job is even better, but always good to have a backup just in case, but she works at a small company been there over 15 years and they tell her it is a job for life) She gets steady raises, good bonuses, great insurance, and recently promoted). I get 5% 401K contribution and 5% company ESOP shares, but 401K vests after 2 years plus 1000 hours in year 3, which I hit a month ago, same with ESOP shares, but company puts money into 401K 18 months later, so I just got $1K of y $5K contribution from 2018 put into my 401K this week. Boss claims if you leave he will top you up immediately, and supposedly if you leave the company shares are bought back and paid out two years after you leave and over a 5 year period. Salary was $100K to start, first year $1K raise, year two $0 raise, looking like this year/next year another $0 raise, and Boss is CFO and tells me he isnt leaving for antoher 12 years so I am stuck, no room to grow at all. Commute is 45 minutes each way. I get to travel 3-4 times a year for company meetings which I enjoy but not much if any sight seeing is allowed, only at nights after work. Also bonuses have been around 2-3%, when I was told my target should be 10%, but they "changed the bonus program" after I started.

REcently had an interview that went well for another small company, half the size of my current company, and it went well and looking like another interview coming and they said I am their best candidate, if you believe them. Pay would be $125-$130, so about $25-30K raise, bonus isnt stated but they said can be 3-10%, raises werent stated, but I hope more than $0 like current job, and commute is only 10-12 minutes each way, but company has had turnover in postition I would be taking and I was told things are kind of a mess, but they are trying to get them in better shape before someone starts.

So basically do I leave a job with good benefits that is stable and likely lifer job, but no room to grow, with a boss I dont like, and sometimes bad work life balance, but good benefits, some of whish I dont use like insurance, but others I like once they pay out being 401K and ESOP shares, plus I get 6 weeks vacation, new job didnt tell me vacation, but from his reaction when I told him I have 6 weeks, Id probably have to fight to get 4 weeks. But I probably need to leave in the next year, to make more money so wife and I can have a third child. But that doesnt mean this job is the right one, I like the better pay and potentially better bonus, love the lesser commute, would give me time to work out or start a side hustle, or spend time with family, not liking things being not in good shape for me when I start, not liking lesser vacation, but realistically I dont take all my 6 weeks, I just carry them over, but I will have to be paid out for them. or do I keep looking to something more stable with better pay comes along. Of course I need to let it play out a little more, but want others' thoughts and suggestions before I potentially need to make a decision. Also do I dare look to get a counter from current job?

Thanks a lot, sorry for the long winded but lots of info to consider.

rj342
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Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:21 pm

Re: Potential New Job

Post by rj342 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:43 pm

Going to much shorter vacation really sucks, but long term frustration can lead to health problems, physical and mental. Been there with both. Re vacation at new place dont be surprised if 3 weeks most you can get - standard 2wks starting out but theyll make an exception and give you one more.

Straying a bit... In the current nonprofit job, is that paid fundraising?
Had a friend in the 90s who worked couple years as a full time paid fundraiser for a state level Boy Scouts org. Really behind the scenes from what parents and troops see. Basically salesmen working local businesses etc on BSA behalf. Scummy. Large majority of funds raised went to pay the fundraising apparatus including the hierarchy's perks. Havent looked at Boy Scouts the same since. Shades of the national United Way, Arimony?
Friend left after increasingly like a pyramid scheme. Raise money in name of subsidizing the summer camps, but the camps actually made money on their own, etc. Used to provide them company cars, but switched to wanting them to lease cars in own name and get some reimbursement. Lease on you if quit or fired.

Topic Author
Thegame14
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Re: Potential New Job

Post by Thegame14 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:01 pm

yeah the basic short story is current job is "safe" but no room to grow and raises and bonuses are basically zero, but secure job, good benefits, 10% into retirement and 6 weeks vacation, some travel which could be fun, 2-3 times a year. commute 45+ minutes each way

New job, little to no systems in place, things in disarray, pay $25-30K more than I make, Id be the boss, room to grow into basically CFO, but Id be the controller with no CFO above me so probably I could call myself CFO, bonus 3-15%, 401K 3-10%, commute 10 minutes.


both very small companies under $25M in revenue. thinking the new job gives me more money, try to negotiate for AT LEAST 4 but really 5 weeks vacation, and then extra hour a day can be used for working out or starting a side hustle, extra money can pay down car loan, heloc and pay to upgrade house earlier.

Pacman
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Re: Potential New Job

Post by Pacman » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:30 pm

[Comment deleted -- moderator oldcomputerguy]

For what is worth, we are in similar professions. I am a CPA and work in a controller type role at a large company. I also have friends who have controller positions at non-profits and small businesses. If I were you I would probably take this job (or something similar) as 1) 25-30k is substantial enough, 2) your current company's policy of paying out 401k contributions 18 months later is just ridiculous, 3) your not moving up or getting raises 4) you want more money for another kid.

However, I would also go in with my eyes open and consider the following: 1) new company is half the size... is funding secure or company stable? 2) upfront investment in hours due to no systems in place - this sounds like it will be a decent amount of extra hours 3) does the new company have retirement matching or is will they just pay a bonus instead.

Topic Author
Thegame14
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Re: Potential New Job

Post by Thegame14 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:30 pm

Pacman wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:30 pm

[Comment deleted -- moderator oldcomputerguy]

For what is worth, we are in similar professions. I am a CPA and work in a controller type role at a large company. I also have friends who have controller positions at non-profits and small businesses. If I were you I would probably take this job (or something similar) as 1) 25-30k is substantial enough, 2) your current company's policy of paying out 401k contributions 18 months later is just ridiculous, 3) your not moving up or getting raises 4) you want more money for another kid.

However, I would also go in with my eyes open and consider the following: 1) new company is half the size... is funding secure or company stable? 2) upfront investment in hours due to no systems in place - this sounds like it will be a decent amount of extra hours 3) does the new company have retirement matching or is will they just pay a bonus instead.
New company is half the size, but tells me they have large cash position, and looking to take advantage during possible recession, new company is similar they wait for year to end, then to file taxes, then do a profit sharing, not a company match, and it is a while after the year is over, so similar time period to current company. My main worry is them not having systems and processes in place and walking into a [mass of confusion --- moderator oldcomputerguy]. vs stay at current company and keep interviewing until a find a more stable company still looking for closer to home and better pay, but more stability and more vacation, when you have kids you spend at least a week vacation a year due to their illnesses and daycare closings alone...

DVMResident
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Re: Potential New Job

Post by DVMResident » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:49 am

To me, your posts lacks focus. Try this: make a list of must haves, nice to have, and not important of your career.

Then apply the list to each job.

Some people prize stability and family (6 weeks of vacation is a rare treat in the USA) and some have great use of extra money and growth. This seems more like a personal values choice than a strict job choice.

Annabel Lee
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Re: Potential New Job

Post by Annabel Lee » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:30 am

Yeah, if you're willing to bet on yourself at all, you take the new job. Ability to design a new organization, significant raise, reduced commute and proximity to your family, more control over your day to day.

What's not to like?

Vacation? Presumably you're negotiating with a CEO who views vacation as money out of his pocket. I'd angle towards a "reasonable and prudent" vacation where you sense the rhythm of the organization, prove yourself, and then ease into your permanent schedule. For what it's worth, I wouldn't make this a focus of yours in the negotiating process.

Things in disarray? Perfect opportunity to prove your worth.

Not as much travel? Your current travel doesn't sound like such a blast, and if you're angling for a 3rd child, you'll probably want to be off the road.

What am I missing? This decision seems a bit too easy to me.

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Re: Potential New Job

Post by oldcomputerguy » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:37 am

Some OT content was removed. As a reminder, see General Etiquette:
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remomnyc
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Re: Potential New Job

Post by remomnyc » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:55 am

Depends on what's important to you. If it's stability, vacation and benefits, you stay put. If it's income, you take the new job and be prepared to move again. Typically, one has to move often to maximize income. For what it's worth, I worked at a very stable firm with great benefits and vacation. Those who left to pursue big bucks and were go-getters bounced around but did better financially. Those who left because they were unhappy with their 0% raises and small bonuses but were not ambitious and hungry (willing to put in long hours and prove themselves) regretted leaving. Their new jobs were unstable and they were worse off a few years later than if they had stayed.

olliema
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Re: Potential New Job

Post by olliema » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:18 am

I would intently reflect on three things before doing anything:

1 - What I want to get (take) from my work life - compensation, recognition, flexibility, learning, power, etc.
2 - What gives me the most purpose and passion - what work experiences have made me most proud?
3 - When prior jobs didn't turn out the way I wanted, was I doing things I found purposeful and was I helping others in the way they wanted to be helped?

Next, write answers from 1 + 2. Those are your priority criteria to evaluate which option will fit you best.

Next, write answers from 3. That is your risk list and you need a plan to ensure those do not come up and if you can't get comfortable with the risk or the plan, then you move to the next option.

cherijoh
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Location: Charlotte NC

Re: Potential New Job

Post by cherijoh » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:39 am

Thegame14 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:36 pm
... but company has had turnover in postition I would be taking and I was told things are kind of a mess, but they are trying to get them in better shape before someone starts.
This would make me nervous. How much turnover? If one person quit leaving things in disarray that is one thing. If they have hired 3 peoiple in the last 2 - 3 years for the same position that is a big warning sign IMO. At the job interview stage, both you and the company should be trying to put the best foot forward.

Have you tried to leverage your network to see if you know anyone who knows anyone who works there?

Topic Author
Thegame14
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Re: Potential New Job

Post by Thegame14 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:29 am

cherijoh wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:39 am
Thegame14 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:36 pm
... but company has had turnover in postition I would be taking and I was told things are kind of a mess, but they are trying to get them in better shape before someone starts.
This would make me nervous. How much turnover? If one person quit leaving things in disarray that is one thing. If they have hired 3 peoiple in the last 2 - 3 years for the same position that is a big warning sign IMO. At the job interview stage, both you and the company should be trying to put the best foot forward.

Have you tried to leverage your network to see if you know anyone who knows anyone who works there?
They said the original person doing the job was a banking type person, not an accountant and not a CPA, they had to let the person go when the company grew and she couldn't do what was required. Hired another person who was an accountant but not a CPA, apparently made a few mistakes and was let go after 90 "trial period", this is the part that I don't like, you as a company don't have systems in place, you as a company don't have processes, but then let people go. I assume I would be able to figure it out, but this worries me.

cherijoh
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Location: Charlotte NC

Re: Potential New Job

Post by cherijoh » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:58 pm

Thegame14 wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:29 am
cherijoh wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:39 am
Thegame14 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:36 pm
... but company has had turnover in postition I would be taking and I was told things are kind of a mess, but they are trying to get them in better shape before someone starts.
This would make me nervous. How much turnover? If one person quit leaving things in disarray that is one thing. If they have hired 3 peoiple in the last 2 - 3 years for the same position that is a big warning sign IMO. At the job interview stage, both you and the company should be trying to put the best foot forward.

Have you tried to leverage your network to see if you know anyone who knows anyone who works there?
They said the original person doing the job was a banking type person, not an accountant and not a CPA, they had to let the person go when the company grew and she couldn't do what was required. Hired another person who was an accountant but not a CPA, apparently made a few mistakes and was let go after 90 "trial period", this is the part that I don't like, you as a company don't have systems in place, you as a company don't have processes, but then let people go. I assume I would be able to figure it out, but this worries me.
I'd view this as a big red flag.

How long had you been looking before you found out about this "opportunity"? Since the economy is still rolling along, I'd be tempted to pass on this and keep looking if it didn't take you too long to find this one.

Topic Author
Thegame14
Posts: 1299
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 11:53 am

Re: Potential New Job

Post by Thegame14 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:29 pm

cherijoh wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:58 pm
Thegame14 wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:29 am
cherijoh wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:39 am
Thegame14 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:36 pm
... but company has had turnover in postition I would be taking and I was told things are kind of a mess, but they are trying to get them in better shape before someone starts.
This would make me nervous. How much turnover? If one person quit leaving things in disarray that is one thing. If they have hired 3 peoiple in the last 2 - 3 years for the same position that is a big warning sign IMO. At the job interview stage, both you and the company should be trying to put the best foot forward.

Have you tried to leverage your network to see if you know anyone who knows anyone who works there?
They said the original person doing the job was a banking type person, not an accountant and not a CPA, they had to let the person go when the company grew and she couldn't do what was required. Hired another person who was an accountant but not a CPA, apparently made a few mistakes and was let go after 90 "trial period", this is the part that I don't like, you as a company don't have systems in place, you as a company don't have processes, but then let people go. I assume I would be able to figure it out, but this worries me.
I'd view this as a big red flag.

How long had you been looking before you found out about this "opportunity"? Since the economy is still rolling along, I'd be tempted to pass on this and keep looking if it didn't take you too long to find this one.
I wasn't really looking, just saw a job listing that had my same title and in my town, so I figured I would apply. My biggest worry is job security, which I have at current job, but I am not treated well, work life balance promises aren't kept, and there is no room to move up and raises have been Zero for the past two years and will be for this upcoming year, so three straight years of Zero raise and basically a 3% bonus. I cant stay at a job like that, but that doesn't mean this job is the right one either....

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