50-60k boat purchase??

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Topic Author
TarHeel2002
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50-60k boat purchase??

Post by TarHeel2002 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:35 pm

We live on the lake. We currently have a 20 year old ski boat that still gets the job done (tubing, skiing, etc)..

Thinking of upgrading to a newer (not brand new) boat with less hours, better interior, few more creature comforts...to do essentially the same thing as the 20 year old boat. Looking at 50-60k range...this boat would probably last us 10+ years and be a lot of fun for the family/memories on the water etc.

Married 39 yo with 3 kids (8,6,0)

Annual income 260k
Total retirement savings = 663k
Emergency fund = 35k
529 savings = 86k

Annual 529 savings = 18k
Annual retirement savings = 50k (I've been saving an additional 3k/month in taxable the last few months)

Home mortgage 149k @ 3.125% ($750 month payment)
Rental mortgage for business/building I own 180k @ 4.75% (1616/month payment)

I could probably get 8-10k for the 20 year old boat on trade in or trying to sell in myself. I'm thinking I could save another 40k by next summer without affecting retirement or 529 contributions. That would result in me being able to pay cash or close to it for next summer. We're fine with the old boat this summer. Certainly not a need and it would temporarily stop the 3k/month taxable contributions for about a year but definitely something I've been contemplating for awhile. Any thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks. :beer

BanquetBeer
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by BanquetBeer » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:40 pm

You spend about $200k/yr (outside of 529/retirement savings) meaning using 4% SWR you would need 5million when you retire by 65?

Are you on track to meet that goal?

bloom2708
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by bloom2708 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:42 pm

I'm on the "pay cash for toys" bandwagon.

Doesn't seem like that is an option. Suze Orman...denied.... :wink:
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SQRT
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by SQRT » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:50 pm

Agree you should pay cash for toys or luxuries. Certainly agree that you could use a new boat though.

Olemiss540
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by Olemiss540 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:03 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:42 pm
I'm on the "pay cash for toys" bandwagon.

Doesn't seem like that is an option. Suze Orman...denied.... :wink:
Sounds like the OP wants to save cash and buy the boat next year when they have the money$$$$.
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bubbadog
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by bubbadog » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:05 pm

SQRT wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:50 pm
Agree you should pay cash for toys or luxuries. Certainly agree that you could use a new boat though.
I think he is planning on paying cash.

He is doing great financially.

Life it about balance.

If a new boat would bring a lot of enjoyment for his family, I vote go for it!

OP, good luck with your decision.

bloom2708
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by bloom2708 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:08 pm

Olemiss540 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:03 pm
bloom2708 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:42 pm
I'm on the "pay cash for toys" bandwagon.

Doesn't seem like that is an option. Suze Orman...denied.... :wink:
Sounds like the OP wants to save cash and buy the boat next year when they have the money$$$$.
Approved. :o
"People want confirmation, not advice" Unknown | "We are here to provoke thoughtfulness, not agree with you" Unknown | Four words. Whole food, plant based. Bing it.

blackholescion
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by blackholescion » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:08 pm

BanquetBeer wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:40 pm
You spend about $200k/yr (outside of 529/retirement savings) meaning using 4% SWR you would need 5million when you retire by 65?

Are you on track to meet that goal?
What? 260k -taxes -50k retirement -18k 529 =~ 130k. OP won’t have child care expenses, mortgage, etc on top of this.

BruDude
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by BruDude » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:10 pm

Two best days in a man’s life are the day he buys the boat and the day he sells the boat...

Bill McNeal
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by Bill McNeal » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:13 pm

It actually stands for “Bring Out Another Thousand”

livesoft
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by livesoft » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:14 pm

Of course you should buy the boat and a few more as well.

Full disclosure: My relatives are part owners of a boat company.

I don't understand why you would stop taxable contributions for the next year. All you have to do is keep the contributions up and just sell shares when you need the cash to buy the boats. (Yes, you have my permission to buy multiple boats!)
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Time2Quit
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by Time2Quit » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:16 pm

If your are paying cash go for it, but if it were me and the boat cost is almost 10% of my retirement, I would invest the money and continue with your old boat. A new transmission and repower for you lf boat can be done for $6k to 8k.

How many hours on your old ski boat?
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:28 pm

Time2Quit wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:16 pm
A new transmission and repower for you lf boat can be done for $6k to 8k.
BINGO! You're trading same for same at a potential cost to you of $50k. Use it this season, get it thoroughly checked over the winter and replace what needs replacing. Having looked extensively at boats and around boatyards years ago when looking for a boat, I found that if you pull the engine/drive out, the rest of the boat is worth zero.
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smitcat
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by smitcat » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:28 pm

bubbadog wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:05 pm
SQRT wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:50 pm
Agree you should pay cash for toys or luxuries. Certainly agree that you could use a new boat though.
I think he is planning on paying cash.

He is doing great financially.

Life it about balance.

If a new boat would bring a lot of enjoyment for his family, I vote go for it!

OP, good luck with your decision.
I agree...

smitcat
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by smitcat » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:30 pm

BruDude wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:10 pm
Two best days in a man’s life are the day he buys the boat and the day he sells the boat...
Sorry you did not like boating - for us it is a great opportunity and pastime with irreplaceable memories.

smitcat
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by smitcat » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:30 pm

Bill McNeal wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:13 pm
It actually stands for “Bring Out Another Thousand”

Sorry you did not like boating - for us it is a great opportunity and pastime with irreplaceable memories.
Same for yourselves ... its not for everyone.

7eight9
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by 7eight9 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:31 pm

I would say buy it. You certainly can afford it. And if/when you no longer want it there will likely be some residual value that can be realized.
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quantAndHold
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by quantAndHold » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:36 pm

Assuming your job is stable, you can pay cash, and you’re planning on continuing to live on the lake, it seems perfectly reasonable to me. I would do the same. If I actually liked boats. Or lakes.

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Watty
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by Watty » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:43 pm

As long as you can pay cash for it I don't see any problem with it.

My only concern would be that you might also need an expensive bigger truck to tow it with so be sure to figure that out in your plans.

ImUrHuckleberry
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by ImUrHuckleberry » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:49 pm

Watty wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:43 pm
As long as you can pay cash for it I don't see any problem with it.

My only concern would be that you might also need an expensive bigger truck to tow it with so be sure to figure that out in your plans.
He lives on a lake. I'm guessing he doesn't tow it anywhere.

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Sandtrap
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by Sandtrap » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:05 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:08 pm
Olemiss540 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:03 pm
bloom2708 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:42 pm
I'm on the "pay cash for toys" bandwagon.

Doesn't seem like that is an option. Suze Orman...denied.... :wink:
Sounds like the OP wants to save cash and buy the boat next year when they have the money$$$$.
Approved. :o
+1
What kind of boat??
What size??
SeaRay?
Boston Whaler?
Four Winns?

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Topic Author
TarHeel2002
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by TarHeel2002 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:01 pm


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TxAg
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by TxAg » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:12 pm

$60k seems steep to me

blastoff
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by blastoff » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:17 pm

TarHeel2002 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:35 pm
We live on the lake. We currently have a 20 year old ski boat that still gets the job done (tubing, skiing, etc)..

Thinking of upgrading to a newer (not brand new) boat with less hours, better interior, few more creature comforts...to do essentially the same thing as the 20 year old boat. Looking at 50-60k range...this boat would probably last us 10+ years and be a lot of fun for the family/memories on the water etc.

Married 39 yo with 3 kids (8,6,0)

Annual income 260k
Total retirement savings = 663k
Emergency fund = 35k
529 savings = 86k

Annual 529 savings = 18k
Annual retirement savings = 50k (I've been saving an additional 3k/month in taxable the last few months)

Home mortgage 149k @ 3.125% ($750 month payment)
Rental mortgage for business/building I own 180k @ 4.75% (1616/month payment)

I could probably get 8-10k for the 20 year old boat on trade in or trying to sell in myself. I'm thinking I could save another 40k by next summer without affecting retirement or 529 contributions. That would result in me being able to pay cash or close to it for next summer. We're fine with the old boat this summer. Certainly not a need and it would temporarily stop the 3k/month taxable contributions for about a year but definitely something I've been contemplating for awhile. Any thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks. :beer
If your income is fairly secure and you use existing boat a good amount, I say go for it. Unlike a lot of people looking to buy a boat, it seems like you already know you enjoy it.

SQRT
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by SQRT » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:35 pm

bubbadog wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:05 pm
SQRT wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:50 pm
Agree you should pay cash for toys or luxuries. Certainly agree that you could use a new boat though.
I think he is planning on paying cash.

He is doing great financially.

Life it about balance.

If a new boat would bring a lot of enjoyment for his family, I vote go for it!

OP, good luck with your decision.
Agree. If he pays cash he should certainly go for it. Make sure you get the biggest engine available. I bought a Bennington pontoon boat, 2 Seadoos, and got a new dock last year. Cant take it with you.

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Sandtrap
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by Sandtrap » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:07 pm

TarHeel2002 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:01 pm
something like this...

https://www.onlyinboards.com/2016-Maste ... 96249.aspx

:sharebeer
Aha.
Got it.
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ohai
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by ohai » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:15 pm

OP, you really came to a website like this and expected people to approve of you buying a $60k boat?

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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:20 pm

ohai wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:15 pm
OP, you really came to a website like this and expected people to approve of you buying a $60k boat?
Now, it it were a Tesla boat, there would be 20 posts thanking you for saving the planet with your new $300k electric boat that's going to save you a million dollars over the next 5 years.....
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cbr shadow
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by cbr shadow » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:24 pm

<duplicate post>
Last edited by cbr shadow on Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cbr shadow
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by cbr shadow » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:25 pm

ohai wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:15 pm
OP, you really came to a website like this and expected people to approve of you buying a $60k boat?
You really posted that comment after several people in the thread DID approve his purchase? :-)

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elcadarj
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by elcadarj » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:30 pm

TarHeel2002 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:01 pm
something like this...

https://www.onlyinboards.com/2016-Maste ... 96249.aspx

:sharebeer
:thumbsup :thumbsup

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elcadarj
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by elcadarj » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:35 pm

"Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing—absolute nothing—half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.” Rat, The Wind in the Willows

Goal33
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by Goal33 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:39 pm

You should get a new boat but does it have to be 50-60k? I don’t have experience with boats, just asking.
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mw1739
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by mw1739 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:51 pm

Buy it! I want to live vicariously through you. I keep thinking I will scoop one up cheap during the next recession, but in the meantime I’m dying to have one.

uberdoc
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by uberdoc » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:06 pm

I am in the same boat. I just need to buy a lake.

BanquetBeer
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by BanquetBeer » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:09 pm

blackholescion wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:08 pm
BanquetBeer wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:40 pm
You spend about $200k/yr (outside of 529/retirement savings) meaning using 4% SWR you would need 5million when you retire by 65?

Are you on track to meet that goal?
What? 260k -taxes -50k retirement -18k 529 =~ 130k. OP won’t have child care expenses, mortgage, etc on top of this.
$260 - 50k retirement = $210 - 40k? Taxes = 170k - 18k 529

Spending = 152k but you have to add back in taxes of 12-21k depending on how much com from LTCG vs 401k but at their savings rate/age it looks mostly 401k

So income needs today of $170k

Can they cut that down? Are they including some amount on savings side but not income side? (6-9% 401k match showing up on savings but not counted as income?)

All good questions but your ballpark seems just as far as my ballpark was, I used 200k for ease of math and to generate questions to look at data.

mikemikemike
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by mikemikemike » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:02 pm

Boats are great. If you save ~20% + of your income, and have the money to spare, buy a boat. (I have a 28' sailboat that I adore and spend a lot of time on). Boats can also be expensive: 60K isn't necessarily "too much".

But I would remove boat purchase from the "financial planning" side of your life. It's obviously not a profitable financial decision. Instead, make a budget that divides your income into savings, necessities (housing, food, etc.), contingencies (emergency fund), and luxuries. Boats fall in that last category, and if the $ is there in your luxuries bucket, just buy it.

Also: be sure to buy a pretty boat. Some boats are ugly; I wouldn't want to own one of those.

BruDude
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by BruDude » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:28 pm

smitcat wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:30 pm
BruDude wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:10 pm
Two best days in a man’s life are the day he buys the boat and the day he sells the boat...
Sorry you did not like boating - for us it is a great opportunity and pastime with irreplaceable memories.
I’ve never had a boat but I’ve heard it many times from people that have.

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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by mikemikemike » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:42 pm

my wife cried when we sold our first boat. they were not tears of joy.

Regattamom
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by Regattamom » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:56 pm

BruDude wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:28 pm
smitcat wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:30 pm
BruDude wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:10 pm
Two best days in a man’s life are the day he buys the boat and the day he sells the boat...
Sorry you did not like boating - for us it is a great opportunity and pastime with irreplaceable memories.
I’ve never had a boat but I’ve heard it many times from people that have.
Maybe you should stop repeating it? At least until you've lived it?

Buy the boat, OP. You can afford it. Have fun!

Cycle
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by Cycle » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:50 pm

smitcat wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:30 pm
BruDude wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:10 pm
Two best days in a man’s life are the day he buys the boat and the day he sells the boat...
Sorry you did not like boating - for us it is a great opportunity and pastime with irreplaceable memories.
That doesn't qualify a blank check. I'm sure most memories would be equivalent with a 40k boat vs a 60k boat, or even a 10k boat for that matter.

Can you buy vacation at work, how many days of vacation can u buy with the 40k saved on a boat? Go boating an extra X days.

I grew up water skiing on a 40 year old boat, I don't think my memories would be any better if that were a 2 year old boat. I'd certainly be weaker as that old boat would drag you a hundred yards before you could pop out of the water.
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by willthrill81 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:07 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:42 pm
I'm on the "pay cash for toys" bandwagon.
I definitely see where you're coming from, but cash spent on toys is cash that cannot be invested. Paying a little bit more via the interest associated short-term financing, which is what the OP said he would potentially do, wouldn't really move their needle.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

bhsince87
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by bhsince87 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:19 pm

Would you rather retire 3-4 years earlier?

That's essentially what you could be looking at.

Only you can answer that question.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace." Samuel Adams

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willthrill81
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by willthrill81 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:24 pm

bhsince87 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:19 pm
Would you rather retire 3-4 years earlier?

That's essentially what you could be looking at.

Only you can answer that question.
That's a bit draconian. The OP's expenses, not including savings, are about $200k annually, including significant debt that should be paid off by retirement. Assuming a 5% return, their current savings path would lead to them having $4.9 million by age 65, and that's not taking SS benefits or any other potential income streams into account. They look to be in pretty good shape to me.
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blackholescion
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by blackholescion » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:51 pm

BanquetBeer wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:09 pm
blackholescion wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:08 pm
BanquetBeer wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:40 pm
You spend about $200k/yr (outside of 529/retirement savings) meaning using 4% SWR you would need 5million when you retire by 65?

Are you on track to meet that goal?
What? 260k -taxes -50k retirement -18k 529 =~ 130k. OP won’t have child care expenses, mortgage, etc on top of this.
$260 - 50k retirement = $210 - 40k? Taxes = 170k - 18k 529

Spending = 152k but you have to add back in taxes of 12-21k depending on how much com from LTCG vs 401k but at their savings rate/age it looks mostly 401k

So income needs today of $170k

Can they cut that down? Are they including some amount on savings side but not income side? (6-9% 401k match showing up on savings but not counted as income?)

All good questions but your ballpark seems just as far as my ballpark was, I used 200k for ease of math and to generate questions to look at data.
If based on username, OP lives in NC, then taxes are a minimum of 60k (would be in any state that has circa 5% income tax). 150k is a lot different than 200k. That’s 1.25 million less they need in retirement.

Good call on adding taxes back in.

bhsince87
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by bhsince87 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:05 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:24 pm
bhsince87 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:19 pm
Would you rather retire 3-4 years earlier?

That's essentially what you could be looking at.

Only you can answer that question.
That's a bit draconian. The OP's expenses, not including savings, are about $200k annually, including significant debt that should be paid off by retirement. Assuming a 5% return, their current savings path would lead to them having $4.9 million by age 65, and that's not taking SS benefits or any other potential income streams into account. They look to be in pretty good shape to me.
I didn't say they weren't in good shape.

IMO, they are. And I think they can afford the boat, no problem.

But $50k invested in the market now will almost certainly be worth more in, say 25 years, than $50k spent on a boat.

The OP was looking for opinions. And I have one.

I sometimes regret the $30k I spent on a sports car 12 years ago. If I had kept that money invested, it would be worth a couple years living expenses now.

Was it worth it? I don't know. But probably was.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace." Samuel Adams

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mrspock
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by mrspock » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:11 pm

Worst. Idea. Ever. Instead, join HedgeFundie's Adventure (search for thread), invest it, and buy a Yacht like the rest of us in about 20 years.

EnjoyIt
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by EnjoyIt » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:12 pm

[quote=willthrill81 post_id=4626848 time=1562382447 user_id=116799]
[quote=bloom2708 post_id=4626165 time=1562352150 user_id=52737]
I'm on the "pay cash for toys" bandwagon.
[/quote]

I definitely see where you're coming from, but cash spent on toys is cash that cannot be invested. Paying a little bit more via the interest associated short-term financing, which is what the OP said he would potentially do, wouldn't really move their needle.
[/quote]


I think it’s more the psychology of leasing or paying interest on luxuries. This is how people fall into trouble. Instead of thinking about total cost, they think about monthly payments. Because of that, I too am in the camp of paying cash for luxuries (except the house.)

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willthrill81
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by willthrill81 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:15 pm

EnjoyIt wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:12 pm
I think it’s more the psychology of leasing or paying interest on luxuries. This is how people fall into trouble. Instead of thinking about total cost, they think about monthly payments. Because of that, I too am in the camp of paying cash for luxuries (except the house.)
I agree that the psychological trappings of using credit for consumables or depreciating assets has gotten millions of people into trouble. But, in the OP's case, the financial side of it is actually fine. Does it really matter if he pays a couple thousand, at most, in interest by taking out a 20% loan on a boat?
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

EnjoyIt
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Re: 50-60k boat purchase??

Post by EnjoyIt » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:25 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:15 pm
EnjoyIt wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:12 pm
I think it’s more the psychology of leasing or paying interest on luxuries. This is how people fall into trouble. Instead of thinking about total cost, they think about monthly payments. Because of that, I too am in the camp of paying cash for luxuries (except the house.)
I agree that the psychological trappings of using credit for consumables or depreciating assets has gotten millions of people into trouble. But, in the OP's case, the financial side of it is actually fine. Does it really matter if he pays a couple thousand, at most, in interest by taking out a 20% loan on a boat?
Nope, it does not unless it leads to more and more financed purchases. Also noteworthy is that arbitraging a percent or two on low financing isn’t going to move the needle either.

This is all psychology, and it is well proven that financing a purchase gets the buyer to spend more than if they would have paid cash. Not so different as adding options on a new car purchase for just a few extra dollars a month. Maybe OP or yourself are not prone to such common psychological foibles, but the vast majority of consumers are.

I know for me, it makes a big difference which I noticed right away the first time I paid cash for a car.

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