Teaching jobs

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Topic Author
BradJ
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by BradJ » Wed May 29, 2019 10:21 am

coachd50 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:11 am
BradJ wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:29 pm
My wife just received her Masters degree in teaching, with a certification in both Math and Science. She has 10 years experience in running a small business, substituted at all the local schools and made a strong impression during her internship (not to mention graduated with a 4.0 while working full time), but despite all this has had a hard time securing employment. Has anyone else had issues getting their first teaching job? We are dumbfounded, mostly due to the fact she did everything “right”.
3) What did she do "right"
She zeroed in on the "gap" areas, and took the appropriate steps:

1) Certified in Math and Science
2) Certified in Middle School, an area she was told most teachers don't wont to do
3) Substituted in several schools, making a good impression on all of them

For those who are saying this is a timing issue, I tend to agree.

oldfatguy
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:38 pm

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by oldfatguy » Wed May 29, 2019 10:30 am

BradJ wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:44 pm
She has applied at any and all opportunities, both private and public.
BradJ wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 2:30 pm
Thank you to all who have replied. She has applied for about four jobs, two of which were in a desirable school district.
This doesn't make sense to me. Four applications is not nearly enough.

How far of a commute is she willing to make?

Topic Author
BradJ
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by BradJ » Wed May 29, 2019 10:39 am

oldfatguy wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 10:30 am
BradJ wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:44 pm
She has applied at any and all opportunities, both private and public.
BradJ wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 2:30 pm
Thank you to all who have replied. She has applied for about four jobs, two of which were in a desirable school district.
This doesn't make sense to me. Four applications is not nearly enough.

How far of a commute is she willing to make?
Yes, four is not a large amount of applications, but she is applying to all listed openings she qualifies for. As far as commute, she is willing to drive 30 minutes for an opportunity. We have small children, so being close to home is important at this stage in life.

Thegame14
Posts: 1088
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 11:53 am

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by Thegame14 » Wed May 29, 2019 10:48 am

BradJ wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 10:39 am
oldfatguy wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 10:30 am
BradJ wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:44 pm
She has applied at any and all opportunities, both private and public.
BradJ wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 2:30 pm
Thank you to all who have replied. She has applied for about four jobs, two of which were in a desirable school district.
This doesn't make sense to me. Four applications is not nearly enough.

How far of a commute is she willing to make?
Yes, four is not a large amount of applications, but she is applying to all listed openings she qualifies for. As far as commute, she is willing to drive 30 minutes for an opportunity. We have small children, so being close to home is important at this stage in life.
She should be applying to everything within an hour radius, a close commute is not more important than no career. She also should apply for EVERYTHING, not just desirable districts. My sister took two years to get a job because she only wanted to teach in nice districts, she then took a job in a "bad area", a school with bars on the walls, and has been there now over 10 years, but her commute is only 20 minutes.

Topic Author
BradJ
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by BradJ » Wed May 29, 2019 10:50 am

Thegame14 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 10:48 am
BradJ wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 10:39 am
oldfatguy wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 10:30 am
BradJ wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:44 pm
She has applied at any and all opportunities, both private and public.
BradJ wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 2:30 pm
Thank you to all who have replied. She has applied for about four jobs, two of which were in a desirable school district.
This doesn't make sense to me. Four applications is not nearly enough.

How far of a commute is she willing to make?
Yes, four is not a large amount of applications, but she is applying to all listed openings she qualifies for. As far as commute, she is willing to drive 30 minutes for an opportunity. We have small children, so being close to home is important at this stage in life.
She should be applying to everything within an hour radius, a close commute is not more important than no career. She also should apply for EVERYTHING, not just desirable districts. My sister took two years to get a job because she only wanted to teach in nice districts, she then took a job in a "bad area", a school with bars on the walls, and has been there now over 10 years, but her commute is only 20 minutes.
Thank you for your advice, but she will not be applying for jobs one hour away. We fully understand this limits her opportunities.

FrugiWan
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 6:21 am

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by FrugiWan » Wed May 29, 2019 11:02 am

Doom&Gloom wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 12:08 am
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 2:36 pm
BradJ wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 2:30 pm
Thank you to all who have replied. She has applied for about four jobs, two of which were in a desirable school district.
Sometimes you have to teach in an undesirable school district, to get your foot in the door so to speak.
+1

Perhaps she is overestimating how valuable the masters degree is for the positions she is considering and setting her sights too high to establish a foothold???
Agreed with this sentiment. A Master's Degree for teaching is not worth the hassle (and provides little ROI), and provides minimal additional upside for employment of entry level teaching. The best thing to have is certification to teach multiple different courses or subjects, specifically at the high school level; I am unsure of the impact at the middle school level.

Topic Author
BradJ
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by BradJ » Wed May 29, 2019 11:16 am

FrugiWan wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:02 am
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 12:08 am
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 2:36 pm
BradJ wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 2:30 pm
Thank you to all who have replied. She has applied for about four jobs, two of which were in a desirable school district.
Sometimes you have to teach in an undesirable school district, to get your foot in the door so to speak.
+1

Perhaps she is overestimating how valuable the masters degree is for the positions she is considering and setting her sights too high to establish a foothold???
Agreed with this sentiment. A Master's Degree for teaching is not worth the hassle (and provides little ROI), and provides minimal additional upside for employment of entry level teaching.
ROI is three years for Master's degree, and this is from the top ranked teaching school in the state. I imagine the ROI could have been less if she went to a cheaper school.

renue74
Posts: 1589
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:24 pm

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by renue74 » Wed May 29, 2019 11:30 am

FrugiWan wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:02 am
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 12:08 am
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 2:36 pm
BradJ wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 2:30 pm
Thank you to all who have replied. She has applied for about four jobs, two of which were in a desirable school district.
Sometimes you have to teach in an undesirable school district, to get your foot in the door so to speak.
+1

Perhaps she is overestimating how valuable the masters degree is for the positions she is considering and setting her sights too high to establish a foothold???
Agreed with this sentiment. A Master's Degree for teaching is not worth the hassle (and provides little ROI), and provides minimal additional upside for employment of entry level teaching. The best thing to have is certification to teach multiple different courses or subjects, specifically at the high school level; I am unsure of the impact at the middle school level.
In my school district, a starting teacher with a masters degree makes 14% more than a starting teacher with a bachelors only. (About $5,000 more)

When my wife got her 1st masters during her 1st year of teaching, the cost for the degree was $10,000. Paid for itself in 2 years and now (I think she is in her 12 or 13th year teaching....she makes about $9,000 more per year than bachelors only.

I'm not sure that 1st year teachers are really judged on whether they have a masters. I'm pretty sure they are not. But, if your wife enjoys teaching and finds it will be a long term job, her district may pay better.

coachd50
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:12 am

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by coachd50 » Wed May 29, 2019 11:31 am

BradJ wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 10:21 am
coachd50 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:11 am
BradJ wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 1:29 pm
My wife just received her Masters degree in teaching, with a certification in both Math and Science. She has 10 years experience in running a small business, substituted at all the local schools and made a strong impression during her internship (not to mention graduated with a 4.0 while working full time), but despite all this has had a hard time securing employment. Has anyone else had issues getting their first teaching job? We are dumbfounded, mostly due to the fact she did everything “right”.
3) What did she do "right"
She zeroed in on the "gap" areas, and took the appropriate steps:

1) Certified in Math and Science
2) Certified in Middle School, an area she was told most teachers don't wont to do
3) Substituted in several schools, making a good impression on all of them

For those who are saying this is a timing issue, I tend to agree.
This definitely sounds like a timing issue, or a very small district issue. My concern here is that she "should have known that". Someone in her education program should have communicated how the local hiring practices work.

Also, a Masters in Teaching without ever having taught can be a hindrance because of the fixed payscales. If I am an district/admin in need of someone to step in and help now, paying more for a first year person may be less desirable than paying less for someone who has some experience.

Is she aware of if/when the area's job fairs will be held?

User avatar
buccimane
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:34 pm

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by buccimane » Wed May 29, 2019 11:45 am

OP, I work in an HR department for a school district.

With Summer around the corner, the school districts in your area should be having Job Fairs regularly. She should start by checking if her university where she completed her MA is having one. If they don't, many states have a central website listing all upcoming fairs.

A job fair will be a good opportunity to practice interviews, as well as meet with multiple districts in a short period of time. If you are able to find a job fair, make sure to have a demo lesson ready. If she is M.S. Science/Math, she should be prepared to answer questions related to incorporating technology into lesson plans, classroom management of middle schoolers, etc.

A portfolio from her internship is also a good item to bring to interviews.

Hope this helps.
A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

Topic Author
BradJ
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:06 pm

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by BradJ » Wed May 29, 2019 11:48 am

buccimane wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:45 am
OP, I work in an HR department for a school district.

With Summer around the corner, the school districts in your area should be having Job Fairs regularly. She should start by checking if her university where she completed her MA is having one. If they don't, many states have a central website listing all upcoming fairs.

A job fair will be a good opportunity to practice interviews, as well as meet with multiple districts in a short period of time. If you are able to find a job fair, make sure to have a demo lesson ready. If she is M.S. Science/Math, she should be prepared to answer questions related to incorporating technology into lesson plans, classroom management of middle schoolers, etc.

A portfolio from her internship is also a good item to bring to interviews.

Hope this helps.
Would you be able to confirm if the Masters Degree is helping or hurting her opportunities?

coachd50
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:12 am

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by coachd50 » Wed May 29, 2019 12:03 pm

BradJ wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:48 am
buccimane wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:45 am
OP, I work in an HR department for a school district.

With Summer around the corner, the school districts in your area should be having Job Fairs regularly. She should start by checking if her university where she completed her MA is having one. If they don't, many states have a central website listing all upcoming fairs.

A job fair will be a good opportunity to practice interviews, as well as meet with multiple districts in a short period of time. If you are able to find a job fair, make sure to have a demo lesson ready. If she is M.S. Science/Math, she should be prepared to answer questions related to incorporating technology into lesson plans, classroom management of middle schoolers, etc.

A portfolio from her internship is also a good item to bring to interviews.

Hope this helps.
Would you be able to confirm if the Masters Degree is helping or hurting her opportunities?
That is going to be a district by district thing.

Just as an aside though, I have always thought that Masters degrees earned before one has actual experience in the field are always suspect. Then again, as a teacher, I have always thought education degrees are generally worthless with regards to job performance anyway.

mnnice
Posts: 427
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:48 pm

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by mnnice » Wed May 29, 2019 12:15 pm

FrugiWan wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:02 am
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 12:08 am
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 2:36 pm
BradJ wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 2:30 pm
Thank you to all who have replied. She has applied for about four jobs, two of which were in a desirable school district.
Sometimes you have to teach in an undesirable school district, to get your foot in the door so to speak.
+1

Perhaps she is overestimating how valuable the masters degree is for the positions she is considering and setting her sights too high to establish a foothold???
Agreed with this sentiment. A Master's Degree for teaching is not worth the hassle (and provides little ROI), and provides minimal additional upside for employment of entry level teaching. The best thing to have is certification to teach multiple different courses or subjects, specifically at the high school level; I am unsure of the impact at the middle school level.
Are you saying in this case or in general? In this case the OP’s spouse probably should have gotten her teaching credential first and then taken the remaining credits after securing a job. Getting your masters if you teach can be tremendous ROI. I know people that spent $8k on a master’s and got a $7k raise year one. They also have much larger pensions as a result.

FrugiWan
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 6:21 am

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by FrugiWan » Wed May 29, 2019 1:30 pm

mnnice wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:15 pm
FrugiWan wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:02 am
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 12:08 am
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 2:36 pm
BradJ wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 2:30 pm
Thank you to all who have replied. She has applied for about four jobs, two of which were in a desirable school district.
Sometimes you have to teach in an undesirable school district, to get your foot in the door so to speak.
+1

Perhaps she is overestimating how valuable the masters degree is for the positions she is considering and setting her sights too high to establish a foothold???
Agreed with this sentiment. A Master's Degree for teaching is not worth the hassle (and provides little ROI), and provides minimal additional upside for employment of entry level teaching. The best thing to have is certification to teach multiple different courses or subjects, specifically at the high school level; I am unsure of the impact at the middle school level.
Are you saying in this case or in general? In this case the OP’s spouse probably should have gotten her teaching credential first and then taken the remaining credits after securing a job. Getting your masters if you teach can be tremendous ROI. I know people that spent $8k on a master’s and got a $7k raise year one. They also have much larger pensions as a result.
I think my original intended meaning was misinterpreted.

I was implying that obtaining a Master's does not appear to have the intended affect of making a candidate far more attractive as a new hire.

In our district, there are few teachers with a Master's as a percentage of the whole and even fewer fresh out of college with no prior teaching experience. It is possible that our district differs vastly from others.

Regarding the benefits, that amount can clearly become huge payoff down the road; even to include the Hybrid plan that our district now has in place. We are still discussing the benefit to obtaining the Master's degree and whether it will be a substantial, or worthwhile, increase in pay for our household.

texasdiver
Posts: 3021
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:50 am
Location: Vancouver WA

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by texasdiver » Wed May 29, 2019 1:54 pm

I have taught in Texas and Washington. Three different districts, but I'm also generally aware of how things are regionally at other districts.

1. I've never heard of a masters being any kind of negative for teaching jobs. Here in WA I think there are a higher percentage of teachers with masters than was the case in TX but in both states, having an MA put you higher on the pay scale than a BA. I have sat on various hiring committees in both states and not once has anyone ever thought an MA was any kind of a negative. To the contrary. At least in science, having more background and education is generally a plus and, comparing two otherwise equal candidates, the one with the masters would generally get the nod in my opinion. I doubt it is a cost issue as the salary difference isn't generally that great. And it is wider between new and experienced teachers anyway.

2. That isn't necessarily the case with higher degrees like a PhD, MD, or JD. There are a small handful of teachers with PhDs and you meet the occasional JD who has changed careers. I've never met an MD teaching in a HS but there might be some. But coming into teaching with those sorts of higher degrees is generally going to raise eyebrows. And probably questions about why the applicants is looking for a HS job and not something at a university or in research. Same goes for really elite colleges like the Ivies. Walk into a teaching interview with a degree from Harvard or Stanford and the commitee will be kind of puzzled as to why you are there and couldn't find something better. Teaching is a very middle class and middle of the road profession and most of the people you'll meet and get interviewed by are going to be coming from fairly middle of the road educational backgrounds like regional state colleges. When the principal and the other teachers on the hiring committee all got their degrees at various directional state universities and commuter schools, walking in with a gold plated Ivy league education isn't necessarily a big plus.

3. Four applications isn't necessarily unusual depending on the part of the country and size of the city. In lots of areas turnover in education is pretty slow and there aren't always that many openings. If you were in a big city with lots of high turnover like say Houston that would obviously be different. There's probably over 100 teaching jobs that would meet your wife's criteria in the greater Houston area right now. Stick with it and keep busy doing something in education.

umfan11244
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:06 am

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by umfan11244 » Wed May 29, 2019 2:29 pm

My spouse has taught for 8 years in the same district. She said one of the biggest things that administrators hate is when prospective teachers are trying to "cherry-pick" a school. A new teacher should take ANY teaching job to get a foot in the door (not to mention - if teaching is their passion, should it matter where they do it?). If administrators sniff out their intention to end up in a good school or a school close to their home, etc., it will inevitably block them from being hired. Not saying this is what your spouse is doing, but thought it was noteworthy.

kfitz1313
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun May 19, 2019 3:20 am

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by kfitz1313 » Wed May 29, 2019 3:24 pm

rj342 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:47 am
BradJ wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 8:30 am
I work in utilities, specifically energy markets. We live in Arkansas, and reside in a growing area that has a high ranking school district.
The advice to move, particularly internationally, for what is presumably the secondary income is a bit disconnected from reality.

FWIW I did have a friend from high school who did the international thing, teaching English in Poland in the mid 90s after USSR broke up, then 2000s in Taiwan then China. Of course living that life he never had a family of his own. He died a year ago w colon cancer, fortunately able to come home before the end.

Potentially a GREAT experience for a single person for a few years wanting to avoid cubicle life.
I'm not sure what was disconnected from reality given I stated I didn't know what his job was and what they were willing to do. Many people are the primary income as a teacher and I had no reason to expect one way or the other.

Your comment is actually the sort that makes me offer this advice. You are thinking of teaching abroad how most people do and that is a very small fragment of international teaching. I worked at a school that cost 300 million dollars to build in Singapore with over 100 nationalities attending as students.

My coworkers were mostly all life long teachers with families. Some were married to other teachers working at the school and some were married to spouses that worked in business and other fields. They mostly all had kids and their kids went to the fancy private school for free. They got a world class education that would've cost 50K a year and got to travel around the world. We took "field trips" to countries nearby in Thailand Vietnam Cambodia China and Nepal every year.

My point is that if you cast a net across the entire globe there are fascinating and wonderful teaching positions. There are thousands of them. Your idea that it is for a couple years while your young and that if you do it longer you grow old and die alone without family is just incorrect.

Granted after his reply to my earlier comment it does seem like he is the primary income and that they have no interest in moving seeing as she has no interest in even driving 30 minutes. I hope she finds a job and I'm sure she will. It's just far more difficult and less lucrative when one only looks in one's own backyard.

texasdiver
Posts: 3021
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:50 am
Location: Vancouver WA

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by texasdiver » Wed May 29, 2019 3:37 pm

umfan11244 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 2:29 pm
My spouse has taught for 8 years in the same district. She said one of the biggest things that administrators hate is when prospective teachers are trying to "cherry-pick" a school. A new teacher should take ANY teaching job to get a foot in the door (not to mention - if teaching is their passion, should it matter where they do it?). If administrators sniff out their intention to end up in a good school or a school close to their home, etc., it will inevitably block them from being hired. Not saying this is what your spouse is doing, but thought it was noteworthy.
Same thing goes for teaching assignments WITHIN schools. Last hiring committee I was on was for a new science teacher as the school I was teaching at was growing and they were adding a new FTE. Because class sizes and teaching loads change from year to year we weren't really sure how much of the job was going to be 9th grade Physical Science vs 10th grade Biology vs 11th grade Chemistry vs any number of science electives. Making year-to-year teaching assignments at most schools is often some type of 3-dimensional chess. One candidate made it pretty clear in the interview that he was mostly interested in teaching upper level classes and wasn't interested in freshman Physical Science. His was the first application to hit the round file about a nanosecond after he walked out. Surest way to not get hired is to be perceived as unwilling to take any teaching assignment you are asked. Because SOMEONE has to do it. After a couple of years and seniority you can start pulling strings to get the classes you actually like to teach. Everyone does that too.

Thegame14
Posts: 1088
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 11:53 am

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by Thegame14 » Wed May 29, 2019 4:05 pm

kfitz1313 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 3:24 pm
rj342 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:47 am
BradJ wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 8:30 am
I work in utilities, specifically energy markets. We live in Arkansas, and reside in a growing area that has a high ranking school district.
The advice to move, particularly internationally, for what is presumably the secondary income is a bit disconnected from reality.

FWIW I did have a friend from high school who did the international thing, teaching English in Poland in the mid 90s after USSR broke up, then 2000s in Taiwan then China. Of course living that life he never had a family of his own. He died a year ago w colon cancer, fortunately able to come home before the end.

Potentially a GREAT experience for a single person for a few years wanting to avoid cubicle life.
I'm not sure what was disconnected from reality given I stated I didn't know what his job was and what they were willing to do. Many people are the primary income as a teacher and I had no reason to expect one way or the other.

Your comment is actually the sort that makes me offer this advice. You are thinking of teaching abroad how most people do and that is a very small fragment of international teaching. I worked at a school that cost 300 million dollars to build in Singapore with over 100 nationalities attending as students.

My coworkers were mostly all life long teachers with families. Some were married to other teachers working at the school and some were married to spouses that worked in business and other fields. They mostly all had kids and their kids went to the fancy private school for free. They got a world class education that would've cost 50K a year and got to travel around the world. We took "field trips" to countries nearby in Thailand Vietnam Cambodia China and Nepal every year.

My point is that if you cast a net across the entire globe there are fascinating and wonderful teaching positions. There are thousands of them. Your idea that it is for a couple years while your young and that if you do it longer you grow old and die alone without family is just incorrect.

Granted after his reply to my earlier comment it does seem like he is the primary income and that they have no interest in moving seeing as she has no interest in even driving 30 minutes. I hope she finds a job and I'm sure she will. It's just far more difficult and less lucrative when one only looks in one's own backyard.
The higher ranking the school district means more likely the more suburban and nice area you are applying to, which means so is everyone else within an hour or more. 4 application is nothing, she should have 100 applications to any and every school within at least an hour and especially in the bad areas. Having a masters likely hurts her with no experience as they have to pay her more but she has no experience, Id rather pay someone less without a master and experience. it is better to get a job first with just bachelors then while teaching get the masters.

So I am not sure he is doing all the right things at all. Applying to way too few places, probably all in affluent "nice" areas, and isn't willing to commute far. Which that is her right, but if I want to be the CFO of a fortune 500 company, will only travel 15 miles and want to make $10M a year, then yes being so pick is her right, but will also severely limit her chances. She is not in a high demand or specialized field, she is a teacher and masters hurts her not helps her with no experience.

rj342
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:21 pm

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by rj342 » Wed May 29, 2019 4:10 pm

FrugiWan wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:02 am
Agreed with this sentiment. A Master's Degree for teaching is not worth the hassle (and provides little ROI), and provides minimal additional upside for employment of entry level teaching. The best thing to have is certification to teach multiple different courses or subjects, specifically at the high school level; I am unsure of the impact at the middle school level.
Not quite right. In a lot of public school systems where salaries are all from a table of yrs experience and degree level, the MS is a guaranteed pay from bump from here on out.

Also if the BS was not in Education the quickie 'alternative' education masters is how you get your foot in the door. That is the impression I got here. In some places hard up for STEM teachers they have waived the requirement for an Ed degree or certs (at least initially).

texasdiver
Posts: 3021
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:50 am
Location: Vancouver WA

Re: Teaching jobs

Post by texasdiver » Wed May 29, 2019 4:23 pm

Thegame14 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 4:05 pm

The higher ranking the school district means more likely the more suburban and nice area you are applying to, which means so is everyone else within an hour or more. 4 application is nothing, she should have 100 applications to any and every school within at least an hour and especially in the bad areas. Having a masters likely hurts her with no experience as they have to pay her more but she has no experience, Id rather pay someone less without a master and experience. it is better to get a job first with just bachelors then while teaching get the masters.

So I am not sure he is doing all the right things at all. Applying to way too few places, probably all in affluent "nice" areas, and isn't willing to commute far. Which that is her right, but if I want to be the CFO of a fortune 500 company, will only travel 15 miles and want to make $10M a year, then yes being so pick is her right, but will also severely limit her chances. She is not in a high demand or specialized field, she is a teacher and masters hurts her not helps her with no experience.
I suspect you are not in education because this is not how teaching jobs work at all.

First, for every district I'm familiar with, applications are all done through the same electronic software portal through which you have to compile a 100% complete applicant profile with about 10 various attachments including resumes, cover letters, transcripts, letters of recommendation, teaching certificates, etc. BEFORE you can even apply for any jobs. Then you can only click through and apply for actual listed openings for outside candidates. Many districts offer openings to internal hires first and then only if they remain unfilled do they take outside applications. This is not like the corporate world where you can broadcast resumes everywhere.

My last hiring experience was in Clark County WA (Vancouver area) which has a population of about 500,000 and has about 10 school districts and 20 various types of high traditional, magnet, and alternative high schools within about a 45 minute radius. During the spring I was looking for teaching jobs I managed to apply for 8 science teaching openings which was every single opening in a 45 minute radius for which I was remotely qualified. I landed 3 interviews and took the first position that was offered by the school district that was moving the fastest so I don't know how many other interviews I might have ended up getting if I had waited.

Sending out 100 resumes is an absolutely pointless excercise. And it isn't like monster.com or linked-in where you can click away and apply for dozens of jobs at a sitting. The ONLY way to get any consideration is to go through the extremely cumbersome system that all the districts use, and then monitor their web sites daily for openings. You may have to get your letters of recommendation sent individually to each district as well before they will even consider your application "complete" and eligible to apply for openings so that is a pain for your former supervisors and such.

Also, I have NEVER heard a principal say they didn't want a candidate with a masters degree. Principals are usually not paying any attention to payroll costs and are usually just looking for the best candidate they can get. Government does not work like business where a manager has a payroll budget they have to stay within. In fact, the percentage of staff with masters degrees is usually a plus on the various school ranking sites like niche and greatschools of which I promise you school administrators are aware.

VegasBH
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Re: Teaching jobs

Post by VegasBH » Thu May 30, 2019 7:19 am

I graduated from a teacher ed program in the southeast at the start of the Great Recession looked for a job for two years eventually moved into higher ed admin. Here are sone things I learned.

1. Most teacher candidates today will have a masters degree. Especially those who teach high school will have a degree in their subject area and a masters in education. My alma mater doesn’t even offer an undergrad in education any more.

2. Look at what it would take to add some additional certifications to her teaching credential. If she is lucky all the would need to do is take the relevant Praxis exams and notify the state. Worst case she would need to take additional coursework. Adding some highschool science certifications could really expand her possibilities. This is especially valuable since she is limited geographically.

3. Subbing and long term subbing is the name of the game. 50%+ of the teachers I know became permanently employed this way. Get to know teachers, secretaries, and administrators let them know if you get the call to come you will show up.

4. Outside of classroom teaching what does the school need the staff to do? Coaching sports is the big one but their are also various committees and activities that need done and usually the principal has to assign these responsibilities to new teachers. What additional skills could she bring or tasks she could take on for a school. Highlight those in her resume. I learned the hard way that being a young teacher in the southeast meant coaching and after hours club work at least until you had tenure. I lost out on several jobs to candidates with coaching experience.

5. Many positions won’t open until 30 days or less before the start of the school year those are the best opportunities for new teachers.

6. One hard and low paid way to get in a school is to take a job as a teachers aid or school secretary. This is tough but I do know people who used these positions to launch a teaching career.

7. What summer job can your wife take that will keep her in contact with students and around other teachers? Tutoring companies and academic support centers like sylvan learning centers come to mind.

8. Including a link to a lesson plan, unit plan, and all related materials that she has put together would be a good idea in her resume. Most principles want to see someone who can teach to the Curriculum standards.
8. Your wife is waiting for someone to retire, die, go on maternity leave, or move to provide an opening its a tough field to break into.

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buccimane
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Re: Teaching jobs

Post by buccimane » Thu May 30, 2019 7:41 am

coachd50 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:03 pm
BradJ wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:48 am
buccimane wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:45 am
OP, I work in an HR department for a school district.

With Summer around the corner, the school districts in your area should be having Job Fairs regularly. She should start by checking if her university where she completed her MA is having one. If they don't, many states have a central website listing all upcoming fairs.

A job fair will be a good opportunity to practice interviews, as well as meet with multiple districts in a short period of time. If you are able to find a job fair, make sure to have a demo lesson ready. If she is M.S. Science/Math, she should be prepared to answer questions related to incorporating technology into lesson plans, classroom management of middle schoolers, etc.

A portfolio from her internship is also a good item to bring to interviews.

Hope this helps.
Would you be able to confirm if the Masters Degree is helping or hurting her opportunities?
That is going to be a district by district thing.
That is correct. In our district, we are on a single salary guide. Meaning that regardless of education level, everyone is on the same guide. Therefore, education would help for opportunity- because the salary would be the same as a BA.

Here's another point regarding your question. In our district, the hiring manager is the Principal. The principal does not deal with salary negotiations/position budgets. They could care less that the candidate they chose would cost $35k more than a new college grad. This fact also leans towards MA/phd helping in some scenarios.
A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

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buccimane
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Re: Teaching jobs

Post by buccimane » Thu May 30, 2019 7:45 am

texasdiver wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 4:23 pm
First, for every district I'm familiar with, applications are all done through the same electronic software portal through which you have to compile a 100% complete applicant profile with about 10 various attachments including resumes, cover letters, transcripts, letters of recommendation, teaching certificates, etc. BEFORE you can even apply for any jobs.
This is also correct. Applying to teaching positions is not similar at all to private industry positions. Besides the attachments listed above, I have also seen writing prompts for specific topics posted in the job application that a candidate must complete. This is typically done to gauge writing ability/grammar so it needs to be very thorough.

I'd be more concerned if the OP stated she has applied to 100 jobs rather than 4.
A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

crake
Posts: 253
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Re: Teaching jobs

Post by crake » Thu May 30, 2019 11:47 am

umfan11244 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 2:29 pm
My spouse has taught for 8 years in the same district. She said one of the biggest things that administrators hate is when prospective teachers are trying to "cherry-pick" a school. A new teacher should take ANY teaching job to get a foot in the door (not to mention - if teaching is their passion, should it matter where they do it?). If administrators sniff out their intention to end up in a good school or a school close to their home, etc., it will inevitably block them from being hired. Not saying this is what your spouse is doing, but thought it was noteworthy.
I do not understand this sentiment. Administrators will block qualified applicants from being hired because of the applicants desire to work in their school district above others? This does not make sense to me.

To your other point about teaching being a passion and it shouldn't matter where they do it. Would you say this about any other field? Should doctors stop aspiring to get jobs at John Hopkins or Sloan Kettering and instead be content to work at a third world hospital without adequate staff or supplies? Should software developers stop trying to get Jobs with FAANG? I doubt anyone would say those things about other professions but for some reason it is viewed as appropriate to paint teachers as entitled for wanting to work at a decent district.

I don't know what type of district your wife teaches at but stating that teachers should just be willing to work anywhere shows a lack of understanding for how bad certain districts can be. Not only is there severe under funding, lack of supplies, lack of support, and safety risks, but the front line teachers face the majority of the blame and retribution for why the schools are failing even if the reasons are completely out of their control. I am extremely thankful that people are willing to put up with these conditions for the sake of the children, but don't believe anyone is obligated to act in a similar manner.

I also don't believe that working at a problem district for a few years is necessarily a leg up to get a better job. Classicism and racism exists in schools and certain administrators may not necessarily view an association with a poor performing district as a positive. Like other administrators, they could blame the applicant for the poor performance of that school and not want to hire them.

To the OP, getting a teaching job is extremely difficult in certain areas of the country even with a STEM degree. The licensing, application, and interview process is unnecessarily grueling for a job that pays so little. If you are unable to move there is little else your wife can do aside from keep applying to every opening available. If she doesn't get anything this school year keep subbing and trying to make contacts. My wife got her full time job through a long term sub opening. It took 3 years substituting and a move to another state.

texasdiver
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Re: Teaching jobs

Post by texasdiver » Thu May 30, 2019 12:29 pm

crake wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 11:47 am
umfan11244 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 2:29 pm
My spouse has taught for 8 years in the same district. She said one of the biggest things that administrators hate is when prospective teachers are trying to "cherry-pick" a school. A new teacher should take ANY teaching job to get a foot in the door (not to mention - if teaching is their passion, should it matter where they do it?). If administrators sniff out their intention to end up in a good school or a school close to their home, etc., it will inevitably block them from being hired. Not saying this is what your spouse is doing, but thought it was noteworthy.
I do not understand this sentiment. Administrators will block qualified applicants from being hired because of the applicants desire to work in their school district above others? This does not make sense to me.

To your other point about teaching being a passion and it shouldn't matter where they do it. Would you say this about any other field? Should doctors stop aspiring to get jobs at John Hopkins or Sloan Kettering and instead be content to work at a third world hospital without adequate staff or supplies? Should software developers stop trying to get Jobs with FAANG? I doubt anyone would say those things about other professions but for some reason it is viewed as appropriate to paint teachers as entitled for wanting to work at a decent district.
No, not some other district. The issue is usually trying to cherry pick schools within the SAME district. The district where I currently work has 6 high schools and about 25 elementary schools, some in wealthy white areas, some in poorer more diverse areas. Generally speaking the resources etc. are generally spread equitably across all schools and they are all good schools. But the schools in poorer areas are always going to have lower standardized test metrics simply because they have a much more transient population (kids moving in and out of the district) and kids with less support at home. Sometimes the work is harder in the poorer schools, sometimes not. Mostly teaching is just teaching wherever you are and kids are just kids. Administrators who are trying to make sure that ALL schools within their district are successful will want to make sure they have the best people everywhere.

How well do you think a doctor would be received by any hospital if they told the interview panel that they only wanted to work with white patients? Or only wanted to work with wealthy patients and wanted someone else to handle all the poor medicaid or indigent care cases? That is essentially what a teacher candidate is saying if they communicate to an interview panel that they are only interested in working in the district's wealthy white schools. And THAT is why such an attitude is generally not well received.

crake
Posts: 253
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Re: Teaching jobs

Post by crake » Thu May 30, 2019 1:06 pm

texasdiver wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 12:29 pm
crake wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 11:47 am
umfan11244 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 2:29 pm
My spouse has taught for 8 years in the same district. She said one of the biggest things that administrators hate is when prospective teachers are trying to "cherry-pick" a school. A new teacher should take ANY teaching job to get a foot in the door (not to mention - if teaching is their passion, should it matter where they do it?). If administrators sniff out their intention to end up in a good school or a school close to their home, etc., it will inevitably block them from being hired. Not saying this is what your spouse is doing, but thought it was noteworthy.
I do not understand this sentiment. Administrators will block qualified applicants from being hired because of the applicants desire to work in their school district above others? This does not make sense to me.

To your other point about teaching being a passion and it shouldn't matter where they do it. Would you say this about any other field? Should doctors stop aspiring to get jobs at John Hopkins or Sloan Kettering and instead be content to work at a third world hospital without adequate staff or supplies? Should software developers stop trying to get Jobs with FAANG? I doubt anyone would say those things about other professions but for some reason it is viewed as appropriate to paint teachers as entitled for wanting to work at a decent district.
No, not some other district. The issue is usually trying to cherry pick schools within the SAME district. The district where I currently work has 6 high schools and about 25 elementary schools, some in wealthy white areas, some in poorer more diverse areas. Generally speaking the resources etc. are generally spread equitably across all schools and they are all good schools. But the schools in poorer areas are always going to have lower standardized test metrics simply because they have a much more transient population (kids moving in and out of the district) and kids with less support at home. Sometimes the work is harder in the poorer schools, sometimes not. Mostly teaching is just teaching wherever you are and kids are just kids. Administrators who are trying to make sure that ALL schools within their district are successful will want to make sure they have the best people everywhere.

How well do you think a doctor would be received by any hospital if they told the interview panel that they only wanted to work with white patients? Or only wanted to work with wealthy patients and wanted someone else to handle all the poor medicaid or indigent care cases? That is essentially what a teacher candidate is saying if they communicate to an interview panel that they are only interested in working in the district's wealthy white schools. And THAT is why such an attitude is generally not well received.
I can understand that perspective better now. Thank you for explaining it more clearly.

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Doom&Gloom
Posts: 2791
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Re: Teaching jobs

Post by Doom&Gloom » Thu May 30, 2019 1:23 pm

crake wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 11:47 am
umfan11244 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 2:29 pm
My spouse has taught for 8 years in the same district. She said one of the biggest things that administrators hate is when prospective teachers are trying to "cherry-pick" a school. A new teacher should take ANY teaching job to get a foot in the door (not to mention - if teaching is their passion, should it matter where they do it?). If administrators sniff out their intention to end up in a good school or a school close to their home, etc., it will inevitably block them from being hired. Not saying this is what your spouse is doing, but thought it was noteworthy.
I do not understand this sentiment. Administrators will block qualified applicants from being hired because of the applicants desire to work in their school district above others? This does not make sense to me.

To your other point about teaching being a passion and it shouldn't matter where they do it. Would you say this about any other field? Should doctors stop aspiring to get jobs at John Hopkins or Sloan Kettering and instead be content to work at a third world hospital without adequate staff or supplies? Should software developers stop trying to get Jobs with FAANG? I doubt anyone would say those things about other professions but for some reason it is viewed as appropriate to paint teachers as entitled for wanting to work at a decent district.

I don't know what type of district your wife teaches at but stating that teachers should just be willing to work anywhere shows a lack of understanding for how bad certain districts can be. Not only is there severe under funding, lack of supplies, lack of support, and safety risks, but the front line teachers face the majority of the blame and retribution for why the schools are failing even if the reasons are completely out of their control. I am extremely thankful that people are willing to put up with these conditions for the sake of the children, but don't believe anyone is obligated to act in a similar manner.

I also don't believe that working at a problem district for a few years is necessarily a leg up to get a better job. Classicism and racism exists in schools and certain administrators may not necessarily view an association with a poor performing district as a positive. Like other administrators, they could blame the applicant for the poor performance of that school and not want to hire them.

To the OP, getting a teaching job is extremely difficult in certain areas of the country even with a STEM degree. The licensing, application, and interview process is unnecessarily grueling for a job that pays so little. If you are unable to move there is little else your wife can do aside from keep applying to every opening available. If she doesn't get anything this school year keep subbing and trying to make contacts. My wife got her full time job through a long term sub opening. It took 3 years substituting and a move to another state.
I hesitate to step into the middle of this debate, but I consider the part I bolded to be a particularly bad example. A few years ago my ophthalomologist and his wife (also a physician) moved their large family to a third-world country to provide services there. I hated to see him go as I considered him to be extremely skilled and competent. I have much more respect for them making the move they did than I would if they had gone to some elite hospital in the US.

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cockersx3
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Re: Teaching jobs

Post by cockersx3 » Thu May 30, 2019 1:49 pm

I'm not a teacher, but have have been married to one for 25 years. As a previous poster stated, the market for teachers is 100% local. Areas in which the population is growing rapidly have more opportunities than those (that are stagnant or declining. When we lived in the southeastern US, my wife got a signed contract as a classroom teacher within a week of applying. We have also lived in other parts of the Northeast where it was a glut of teachers and she was unable to find work. It all depends on where you live.

Also, desirable school districts can (are usually are) more selective on candidates than lower performing schools. My wife needed to "put her time in" to a less-desirable school system for a few years before being able to get into a really good school system closer to home.

Also, know that the hiring processes for public schools can be significantly less mature than in other professions. My wife had success mailing her resume to all of the public schools in driving distance of our home, despite the "official" requirement to apply at the central district office. Usually the school principals are the decision makers for hiring in our experience, so don't be afraid to bypass the district office to get the resume in front of the person who actually makes the decisions.

Finally, keep in mind the school hiring calendar. This time of year is when school systems are determining their needs for the next year, so hiring can be slow. My wife has gotten many jobs shortly before (or just slightly after) the start of the school year, when the schools have a much clearer picture of staffing needs.

umfan11244
Posts: 84
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Re: Teaching jobs

Post by umfan11244 » Fri May 31, 2019 6:04 pm

crake wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 1:06 pm
texasdiver wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 12:29 pm
crake wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 11:47 am
umfan11244 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 2:29 pm
My spouse has taught for 8 years in the same district. She said one of the biggest things that administrators hate is when prospective teachers are trying to "cherry-pick" a school. A new teacher should take ANY teaching job to get a foot in the door (not to mention - if teaching is their passion, should it matter where they do it?). If administrators sniff out their intention to end up in a good school or a school close to their home, etc., it will inevitably block them from being hired. Not saying this is what your spouse is doing, but thought it was noteworthy.
I do not understand this sentiment. Administrators will block qualified applicants from being hired because of the applicants desire to work in their school district above others? This does not make sense to me.

To your other point about teaching being a passion and it shouldn't matter where they do it. Would you say this about any other field? Should doctors stop aspiring to get jobs at John Hopkins or Sloan Kettering and instead be content to work at a third world hospital without adequate staff or supplies? Should software developers stop trying to get Jobs with FAANG? I doubt anyone would say those things about other professions but for some reason it is viewed as appropriate to paint teachers as entitled for wanting to work at a decent district.
No, not some other district. The issue is usually trying to cherry pick schools within the SAME district. The district where I currently work has 6 high schools and about 25 elementary schools, some in wealthy white areas, some in poorer more diverse areas. Generally speaking the resources etc. are generally spread equitably across all schools and they are all good schools. But the schools in poorer areas are always going to have lower standardized test metrics simply because they have a much more transient population (kids moving in and out of the district) and kids with less support at home. Sometimes the work is harder in the poorer schools, sometimes not. Mostly teaching is just teaching wherever you are and kids are just kids. Administrators who are trying to make sure that ALL schools within their district are successful will want to make sure they have the best people everywhere.

How well do you think a doctor would be received by any hospital if they told the interview panel that they only wanted to work with white patients? Or only wanted to work with wealthy patients and wanted someone else to handle all the poor medicaid or indigent care cases? That is essentially what a teacher candidate is saying if they communicate to an interview panel that they are only interested in working in the district's wealthy white schools. And THAT is why such an attitude is generally not well received.
I can understand that perspective better now. Thank you for explaining it more clearly.
He got to it before I could (been away from the internet for a bit). That's what I was speaking of as well, our district has 15 elementary schools, 2 middle schools, and 1 high school. So if the principal sees that a newly certified teacher applies for one school opening and not for the other six, it raises questions.

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