Senior management/executives

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prettybogle
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Senior management/executives

Post by prettybogle » Tue May 21, 2019 8:49 pm

I truly respect collective wisdom of bogleheads forum and I know for a fact many members here are in senior management positions. I had a very strange experience at work recently - one of our vice presidents in the company offered an indirect quid pro quo in return for “something” from me. I am still in a state of shock and have been discussing this with my friends and also DH. I started my job search again and looking to move out of there fairly soon. I am hearing that in corporations this is a fairly not uncommon and these guys get kick backs for granting contracts - kick backs can be money, gifts etc. Is this correct ? I am surprised that in capitalist economy like US, these things happen :oops:

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RickBoglehead
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by RickBoglehead » Tue May 21, 2019 9:32 pm

Not in my experience. If it is illegal or violates company policy, turn him in.
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by EddyB » Tue May 21, 2019 9:34 pm

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:32 pm
Not in my experience. If it is illegal or violates company policy, turn him in.
+1

Bacchus01
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by Bacchus01 » Tue May 21, 2019 9:36 pm

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:32 pm
Not in my experience. If it is illegal or violates company policy, turn him in.
agreed. It’s not normal. At all.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by Globalviewer58 » Tue May 21, 2019 9:36 pm

If the ask was for non-work related personal services in return for something of value then you may have a hostile work environment complaint to Discuss with HR. The hostile work environment is still around but it is never acceptable. I suggest you document the situation and then discuss with a trusted HR rep. Your company probably has a policy describing how you should report the conduct.

In the interim you should never be alone with the harasser. If your work peers have similar events to report then urge them to make a complaint. This is the best mechanism to address the issue. Serial harassers have no place in the corporate world.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by Iridium » Tue May 21, 2019 10:00 pm

There is far more corruption that exists at all levels of a corporation than ought to exist. None of it is excusable and I fully support anyone who reports it. However, I have known folks who will say 'you gotta give me something [to go on]' when they want to relay they are amenable to giving you want you want, but you haven't made a very good case for why they should. I hope this doesn't come off as questioning; it seems weird to me that the requested bribe would be described solely as "something" (without the proviso that said something be 'on the side' or 'little'), so wanted to relay the idiom, under the small chance it is a misunderstanding.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by MotoTrojan » Tue May 21, 2019 10:05 pm

Iridium wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 10:00 pm
There is far more corruption that exists at all levels of a corporation than ought to exist. None of it is excusable and I fully support anyone who reports it. However, I have known folks who will say 'you gotta give me something [to go on]' when they want to relay they are amenable to giving you want you want, but you haven't made a very good case for why they should. I hope this doesn't come off as questioning; it seems weird to me that the requested bribe would be described solely as "something" (without the proviso that said something be 'on the side' or 'little'), so wanted to relay the idiom, under the small chance it is a misunderstanding.
I’m also intrigued by the vague OP.

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ResearchMed
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by ResearchMed » Tue May 21, 2019 10:09 pm

Iridium wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 10:00 pm
There is far more corruption that exists at all levels of a corporation than ought to exist. None of it is excusable and I fully support anyone who reports it. However, I have known folks who will say 'you gotta give me something [to go on]' when they want to relay they are amenable to giving you want you want, but you haven't made a very good case for why they should. I hope this doesn't come off as questioning; it seems weird to me that the requested bribe would be described solely as "something" (without the proviso that said something be 'on the side' or 'little'), so wanted to relay the idiom, under the small chance it is a misunderstanding.
I'm not sure I understand you (Iridium), but I assumed that OP's "something" was simply omitting the specific "ask" (and wondered if it might not be, er, financial...).

But yes, without having any proof, it would be an "A said/B said" situation, and OP should keep in mind that HR is *NOT* always on the side of the employee. They are part of the Employer...

Very tricky situation without some sort of proof.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by MotoTrojan » Tue May 21, 2019 10:11 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 10:09 pm
Iridium wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 10:00 pm
There is far more corruption that exists at all levels of a corporation than ought to exist. None of it is excusable and I fully support anyone who reports it. However, I have known folks who will say 'you gotta give me something [to go on]' when they want to relay they are amenable to giving you want you want, but you haven't made a very good case for why they should. I hope this doesn't come off as questioning; it seems weird to me that the requested bribe would be described solely as "something" (without the proviso that said something be 'on the side' or 'little'), so wanted to relay the idiom, under the small chance it is a misunderstanding.
I'm not sure I understand you (Iridium), but I assumed that OP's "something" was simply omitting the specific "ask" (and wondered if it might not be, er, financial...).

But yes, without having any proof, it would be an "A said/B said" situation, and OP should keep in mind that HR is *NOT* always on the side of the employee. They are part of the Employer...

Very tricky situation without some sort of proof.

RM
I thought the same but the last sentence about guys getting kick backs for granting contracts didn’t align.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by Stinky » Tue May 21, 2019 10:58 pm

In my former company there was a well-defined and well-publicized process for reporting violations of the Code of Business Conduct. The situation that OP describes would violate my company’s Code.

Reports of violations of the Code were investigated by HR and Legal jointly, and were reported to the Corporate Board. Various employment actions, including terminations, resulted from Code reports.

I hope that OP’s company has a process like this.
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by jabberwockOG » Tue May 21, 2019 11:07 pm

You could talk to HR about this event, but understand that it could be a serious risk and damage your opportunities with the company. Corrupt and/or dishonest individuals like this, especially when they get to VP/senior levels, cannot be expected to behave honorably or tell the truth. Any attack on them will be met with a direct and forceful attack back on you.

My suggestion would be to politely and gently back away from this individual unless you have proof, and in addition very strong support from other higher level exec.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by Iridium » Tue May 21, 2019 11:13 pm

MotoTrojan wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 10:11 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 10:09 pm
Iridium wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 10:00 pm
There is far more corruption that exists at all levels of a corporation than ought to exist. None of it is excusable and I fully support anyone who reports it. However, I have known folks who will say 'you gotta give me something [to go on]' when they want to relay they are amenable to giving you want you want, but you haven't made a very good case for why they should. I hope this doesn't come off as questioning; it seems weird to me that the requested bribe would be described solely as "something" (without the proviso that said something be 'on the side' or 'little'), so wanted to relay the idiom, under the small chance it is a misunderstanding.
I'm not sure I understand you (Iridium), but I assumed that OP's "something" was simply omitting the specific "ask" (and wondered if it might not be, er, financial...).
I thought the same but the last sentence about guys getting kick backs for granting contracts didn’t align.
ResearchMed, it is possible. I had interpreted the double quotes as meaning that OP was quoting the supervisor. If I interpreted OP incorrectly, then OP should discard my statement as being irrelevant.

MotoTrojan, my interpretation of OP's statement is that it references rumors that OP has heard about executive corruption at companies in general, not that it references this specific executive. If it did reference the specific executive, that would put OP in a far better position, as executives are unlikely to sign contract in a complete vacuum, there almost certainly would be signs of irregularities in the negotiation and evaluation of the contract.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by ChowYunPhat » Wed May 22, 2019 3:20 am

prettybogle wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 8:49 pm
I am hearing that in corporations this is a fairly not uncommon and these guys get kick backs for granting contracts - kick backs can be money, gifts etc. Is this correct ?
In my experience this is not common. C-suite is paid very well(theoretically less incentive to seek illicit financial gain) and often times held to a higher standard...this is the case with my employer where senior leaders have extremely rigid gifts and entertainment disclosure requirements for senior execs and less stringent rules for more junior employees. Pretty much all C-suite are considered insiders and will have access to both confidential material information related to the co as well as 3rd party companies....this comes with some level of monitoring as well as a fairly high standard of behavior.

Consider Iridium's post above. Pretty much any contract or agreement rising to the level of a senior exec signatory will have had significant vetting from lower levels and various business units within the organization.
Iridium wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 11:13 pm
as executives are unlikely to sign contract in a complete vacuum, there almost certainly would be signs of irregularities in the negotiation and evaluation of the contract.
Lastly, "Quid pro quo" exists at all levels of any business in many completely legal ways. Think, "if I am a jackass to this person they are unlikely to support me when it's time to build advocacy for a new IT system". There is nothing wrong with building positive working relationships with colleagues, but there will always be bad apples out there who rose to power through bad behavior. Tread carefully and good luck.
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by mancich » Wed May 22, 2019 4:24 am

Our Megacorp has an anonymous 800 number administered by a third party company, for calling out ethics violations. If yours does too, this might be an option.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by London » Wed May 22, 2019 4:31 am

If I was uncomfortable with something at work, I’d just find a new job. I wouldn’t “rat” on anyone but that’s just me. I realize that’s probably not a shared point of view on this board.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by Valuethinker » Wed May 22, 2019 5:00 am

prettybogle wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 8:49 pm
Is this correct ? I am surprised that in capitalist economy like US, these things happen :oops:
There's nothing in capitalism per se that prohibits this.

What you mean, I think, is that the USA is a rule-of-law society, and uncorrupt both by international standards and the standards of its own history - capitalism in the 19th century was legendarily corrupt, and there have been outbreaks since.

The extent to which our societies will continue to observe the rule-of-law is always being tested.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by trustquestioner » Wed May 22, 2019 5:28 am

The sad reality is that once you report, you are done at that company. HR is not your friend and they will try to get rid of you as cheaply and quickly as possible. It’s unfair and infuriating but you just have to get a new job.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by Bacchus01 » Wed May 22, 2019 5:30 am

trustquestioner wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 5:28 am
The sad reality is that once you report, you are done at that company. HR is not your friend and they will try to get rid of you as cheaply and quickly as possible. It’s unfair and infuriating but you just have to get a new job.
That also is not the norm. This should not happen.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by trustquestioner » Wed May 22, 2019 5:36 am

The second sentence is true, the first is not.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by Mr.BB » Wed May 22, 2019 5:46 am

You should take notes and write down timelines and what was discussed. Maybe even try create an email trail just between you two then you can use it to back yourself for defense.
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by Pomegranate » Wed May 22, 2019 6:29 am

prettybogle wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 8:49 pm
I am surprised that in capitalist economy like US, these things happen :oops:
:mrgreen:
Do not listen to propaganda - it’s a lobbyist economy and that’s exactly one of it’s major features.
Be VERY careful with HR ppl - they serve the company but pretend they’re your best friends.
Welcome to the real world!

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by Annabel Lee » Wed May 22, 2019 6:41 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:32 pm
Not in my experience. If it is illegal or violates company policy, turn him in.
Say it one more time for the people in the back!

Know the conversation on the thread has been more aligned with kickbacks, bribes etc but this sounds to me like an Indecent Proposal.

So I understand the OP's reticence to share further detail about this experience. With that said 1) if this creep is in her reporting line, 2) whether she has verifiable proof (texts, emails, witnesses who will stone-cold back her up), and 3) maybe most importantly, the size, ownership and culture of the company should dictate how she proceeds.

Her boss' boss, with no proof, in a 30-person family owned company? Get the hell out of there now.

Senior exec outside the reporting line, with proof/pattern of behavior, at a large publicly traded company? Maybe a different path.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by lightheir » Wed May 22, 2019 6:51 am

At the risk of being really unpopular/devil's advocate here, and without knowing the full details, I'd say the approach this with nuance.

Too many social justice warriors make these things a black or white issue, and too quickly bust out the pitchforks at the first offense, when in reality you just need to make clear your intentions but be kind about turning such ill-conceived proposals down. This can also work in your favor if done gracefully and diplomatically, without you giving up your morals.

And no, I'm not trying to excuse egregious behavior like Harvey Weinstein etc. If it's that bad, damaging, and or a repeat offender, turn the guy in ASAP.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by 8foot7 » Wed May 22, 2019 7:11 am

trustquestioner wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 5:28 am
The sad reality is that once you report, you are done at that company. HR is not your friend and they will try to get rid of you as cheaply and quickly as possible. It’s unfair and infuriating but you just have to get a new job.
This is sound advice. Avoid HR unless impossible and understand
HR doesn’t want to protect you. They want to protect the company and those they see as valuable to it. Also remember HR reports in somewhere, too.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by stickman731 » Wed May 22, 2019 9:10 am

Since I do not know what was offered, I cannot comment but kickbacks are illegal and should be reported to HR or Legal Department. I highly recommend you document it with timeline and specifics. They may be testing you for a higher role but it comes down to your own ethnics. For me (as a past senior manager) I would have a documented discussion with Corporate Legal which will allow some attorney privileges.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by GmanJeff » Wed May 22, 2019 10:50 am

If you're with a large company, I'd suggest reporting to Security, Legal, or HR, depending on the nature of the quid pro quo. Security is usually best equipped to investigate, and will often bring in Legal and HR as required, but those departments have different levels of "pull" , competence, and capability at different firms, so the place to turn to depends in large part on where your concern will be handled both discreetly and skillfully.

It would also be prudent to begin documenting in detail your verbal conversations, and of course retain any relevant email. Memoranda made contemporaneously, or as close to as is reasonably possible, to any questionable proposal discussions can serve as persuasive evidence if required later in a "he said, she said" situation.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by smitcat » Wed May 22, 2019 10:55 am

Yes - I have seen this before but it has not been common in my experience.
I ended up at another company.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by EddyB » Wed May 22, 2019 11:00 am

jabberwockOG wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 11:07 pm
You could talk to HR about this event, but understand that it could be a serious risk and damage your opportunities with the company. Corrupt and/or dishonest individuals like this, especially when they get to VP/senior levels, cannot be expected to behave honorably or tell the truth. Any attack on them will be met with a direct and forceful attack back on you.

My suggestion would be to politely and gently back away from this individual unless you have proof, and in addition very strong support from other higher level exec.
I would not presume to talk to HR; I would instead identify the applicable company policy and comply with it. Boards of directors cannot now tolerate a lot of behavior that may have been swept under the rug in the past, including (especially) retribution.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by smitcat » Wed May 22, 2019 11:24 am

EddyB wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:00 am
jabberwockOG wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 11:07 pm
You could talk to HR about this event, but understand that it could be a serious risk and damage your opportunities with the company. Corrupt and/or dishonest individuals like this, especially when they get to VP/senior levels, cannot be expected to behave honorably or tell the truth. Any attack on them will be met with a direct and forceful attack back on you.

My suggestion would be to politely and gently back away from this individual unless you have proof, and in addition very strong support from other higher level exec.
I would not presume to talk to HR; I would instead identify the applicable company policy and comply with it. Boards of directors cannot now tolerate a lot of behavior that may have been swept under the rug in the past, including (especially) retribution.
"Boards of directors cannot now tolerate a lot of behavior that may have been swept under the rug in the past, including (especially) retribution."
I wish that were true...

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by JBTX » Wed May 22, 2019 11:25 am

One other option for companies that have an ethics policy and infrastructure is to use a company ethics violation line. If set up correctly, it goes straight to the board of directors or people reporting to the board. I once had remote employees who reported unethical and prohibited behavior to me(a violation of company policies put in place to participate in federal business). I reported it to my boss, and also to company top management. They basically drug their feet due to internal politics or feelings of empathy to the offending party. My site employees were very frustrated. I talked to an internal audit resource and they told me if you use the ethics hotline it bypasses upper management. I passed that feedback to my employees and left the decision to them. They did report the behavior and the offending party was fired. There was some residual frustration towards me and my employee by company management. But after being preached to and preaching to my employees the absolute non negotiability of these new policies we weren't going to back down.

Ultimately reporting unethical behavior of superiors probably won't be to your benefit, but you have to make the decision as to if the principal is worth standing up for. It is a judgment call.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by EddyB » Wed May 22, 2019 11:29 am

smitcat wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:24 am
EddyB wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:00 am
jabberwockOG wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 11:07 pm
You could talk to HR about this event, but understand that it could be a serious risk and damage your opportunities with the company. Corrupt and/or dishonest individuals like this, especially when they get to VP/senior levels, cannot be expected to behave honorably or tell the truth. Any attack on them will be met with a direct and forceful attack back on you.

My suggestion would be to politely and gently back away from this individual unless you have proof, and in addition very strong support from other higher level exec.
I would not presume to talk to HR; I would instead identify the applicable company policy and comply with it. Boards of directors cannot now tolerate a lot of behavior that may have been swept under the rug in the past, including (especially) retribution.
"Boards of directors cannot now tolerate a lot of behavior that may have been swept under the rug in the past, including (especially) retribution."
I wish that were true...
Boards still make mistakes and records are imperfect, but I have first-hand experience with several that have shown significant evolution in how they handle such situations over the past few years. Sorry if you have been stung by a laggard.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by Stinky » Wed May 22, 2019 11:38 am

EddyB wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:29 am

Boards still make mistakes and records are imperfect, but I have first-hand experience with several that have shown significant evolution in how they handle such situations over the past few years. Sorry if you have been stung by a laggard.
The posts on this thread are an excellent example of “YMMV”.

Some of us have had a good experience with management and/or Boards dealing with situations. Unfortunately, it sounds like more folks have seen bad experiences.
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by smitcat » Wed May 22, 2019 11:50 am

EddyB wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:29 am
smitcat wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:24 am
EddyB wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:00 am
jabberwockOG wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 11:07 pm
You could talk to HR about this event, but understand that it could be a serious risk and damage your opportunities with the company. Corrupt and/or dishonest individuals like this, especially when they get to VP/senior levels, cannot be expected to behave honorably or tell the truth. Any attack on them will be met with a direct and forceful attack back on you.

My suggestion would be to politely and gently back away from this individual unless you have proof, and in addition very strong support from other higher level exec.
I would not presume to talk to HR; I would instead identify the applicable company policy and comply with it. Boards of directors cannot now tolerate a lot of behavior that may have been swept under the rug in the past, including (especially) retribution.
"Boards of directors cannot now tolerate a lot of behavior that may have been swept under the rug in the past, including (especially) retribution."
I wish that were true...
Boards still make mistakes and records are imperfect, but I have first-hand experience with several that have shown significant evolution in how they handle such situations over the past few years. Sorry if you have been stung by a laggard.
Glad it worked out for you - right now we have the 3rd letter out to each/every board member. So far no reponse at all.

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by rj342 » Wed May 22, 2019 12:02 pm

Not the same situation, but I had it reinforced the hard way that HR works for the company/c-suite. Those two are technically NOT the same thing, but it doesn't always work that way in reality.
Be very careful sticking your head up or making enemies.

You don't want to be railroaded out in revenge in terms of your next job (happened to me, and I had foolishly thought I could navigate the situation), and certainly be paranoid about a wrongful termination suit if that happened, because even if you win, you lose. I did NOT go there

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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by Meg77 » Wed May 22, 2019 12:38 pm

I'm confused by your question. The first part makes it sound like you experienced classic sexual harassment, but the second part makes it sound like you're talking about corruption and bribes. But the quotes around something leave the impression that you may also be confused by the offer and it may have been vague or open to misunderstanding.

Sexual harassment
There's the "hostile work environment" kind and there is "quid pro quo" kind. Both are unfortunate, and most of the advice you get about not reporting it or HR being unwilling to do much have to do with the first type. Offense taken to jokes, flirtation that might have been appreciated but wasn't, and other activities. I have let some of that stuff roll off my back and only once reported a pretty egregious come on by a manager - and only because my now husband (who I worked with at the time) insisted I do so. In fact someone else who heard about or witnessed the incident reported it first. He was fired as there was a pattern of behavior leading up to it, and the company was trying to collect enough information to have grounds to fire him. HR was VERY interested in my story, even though I felt horrible ratting on him (he was a dad and was drunk at the time and it was after company hours and I wasn't offended personally or threatened or anything). The problem from their perspective is that affluent Sr managers usually sue when fired, and usually companies have to settle rather than dragging it all to court with an expensive trial. So they really need ammo to take effective action, even when they really want to.

The second kind is very rare in my experience and network though, and I wouldn't hesitate to report it if someone offered me a big client or deal or contract in exchange for sexual favors. If that is what you are saying happened, please report it! If you don't and just get another job this guy or gal may continue the behavior unchecked for who knows how long. Even if you do leave you should report it.

Corruption/bribes
If the "something" referred to money or kick backs or something specific, that seems pretty illegal (depending on the industry) or at least unethical. I'd report it to HR and let them decide if it violated company policy. The fact that you feel so uncomfortable is reason enough to get input from them. It may not necessarily escalate to him or go anywhere especially if you don't want it to, but per the above they will appreciate having a note for the file in case something similar happens again. In general I've never heard of anything like outright bribery going on at the places I've worked or frankly even in the news very often. I'm not a sr manager myself but a mid level one.

Confusion
If someone at work offered you a deal or contract in exchange for "something" though - actually using those words - then personally I'd want to clarify what they meant. As someone else noted, they might have not meant something unethical or illegal. They could have meant in exchange for general good will at work, or you putting a good word in for them or supporting their projects or whatever. Or it was a bad joke you took literally. Honestly I might even record it on my phone and go up to the person; say the conversation has been bugging you and you want to clarify what was meant by the offer.
Last edited by Meg77 on Wed May 22, 2019 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by LadyGeek » Wed May 22, 2019 12:41 pm

This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (career).
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by Thegame14 » Wed May 22, 2019 12:47 pm

I would just look for a new job and keep quiet. I have been fired for taking paternity leave that was granted by CFO, who then left the company and new CFO fired me for taking the paternity leave since he said he was new and needed me there to work with him.

Another company fired me for having surgery and said I used PTO not medical leave and managers are required to work while on PTO, and I apparently was working while recovering from surgery and the fired me. I actually came into the office on recovery day three bleeding from my nose, but the first two days missed they fired me for.

I had another company I worked for only one week, the CEO told me we needed to go to the break room to celefrate "the Mexican's" birthday. I asked him what the person's name was, and he said it doesn't matter they are all the same so we just say "The Mexicans", I said I am sorry I am not comfortable calling them that and would rather not attend, got fired and was told I "didn't fit into their culture"

Current boss bullies everyone, makes racist comments, and pressures me to work nights and weekends when I took the job based on him saying overtime is not necessary and weekends are never worked. Made me come back from paternity early, makes demeaning comments about my wife and family situation. Says I should just worry about work and wife should stay home and raise kids...

So I don't trust anyone in charge at a corporation. You look our for you, that is what they are doing.

smitcat
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by smitcat » Wed May 22, 2019 12:52 pm

Thegame14 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 12:47 pm
I would just look for a new job and keep quiet. I have been fired for taking paternity leave that was granted by CFO, who then left the company and new CFO fired me for taking the paternity leave since he said he was new and needed me there to work with him.

Another company fired me for having surgery and said I used PTO not medical leave and managers are required to work while on PTO, and I apparently was working while recovering from surgery and the fired me. I actually came into the office on recovery day three bleeding from my nose, but the first two days missed they fired me for.

I had another company I worked for only one week, the CEO told me we needed to go to the break room to celefrate "the Mexican's" birthday. I asked him what the person's name was, and he said it doesn't matter they are all the same so we just say "The Mexicans", I said I am sorry I am not comfortable calling them that and would rather not attend, got fired and was told I "didn't fit into their culture"

Current boss bullies everyone, makes racist comments, and pressures me to work nights and weekends when I took the job based on him saying overtime is not necessary and weekends are never worked. Made me come back from paternity early, makes demeaning comments about my wife and family situation. Says I should just worry about work and wife should stay home and raise kids...

So I don't trust anyone in charge at a corporation. You look our for you, that is what they are doing.
"Current boss bullies everyone, makes racist comments, and pressures me to work nights and weekends when I took the job based on him saying overtime is not necessary and weekends are never worked. Made me come back from paternity early, makes demeaning comments about my wife and family situation. Says I should just worry about work and wife should stay home and raise kids..."

So when are you getting the new job?

dcabler
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by dcabler » Wed May 22, 2019 12:57 pm

My company has an "ethics hotline", but I have no idea how anonymous, etc. it is. But I would echo others comments about HR. They represent the company, not you.

bayview
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by bayview » Wed May 22, 2019 1:01 pm

lightheir wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:51 am
At the risk of being really unpopular/devil's advocate here, and without knowing the full details, I'd say the approach this with nuance.

Too many social justice warriors make these things a black or white issue, and too quickly bust out the pitchforks at the first offense, when in reality you just need to make clear your intentions but be kind about turning such ill-conceived proposals down. This can also work in your favor if done gracefully and diplomatically, without you giving up your morals.

And no, I'm not trying to excuse egregious behavior like Harvey Weinstein etc. If it's that bad, damaging, and or a repeat offender, turn the guy in ASAP.
Just a general comment in reply to your post, not to OP: if no one ever reports these things, but just "make(s) clear your intentions but (is) kind about turning such ill-conceived proposals down", how does one know if it's a repeat offender?
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri

Thegame14
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by Thegame14 » Wed May 22, 2019 1:01 pm

smitcat wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 12:52 pm
Thegame14 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 12:47 pm
I would just look for a new job and keep quiet. I have been fired for taking paternity leave that was granted by CFO, who then left the company and new CFO fired me for taking the paternity leave since he said he was new and needed me there to work with him.

Another company fired me for having surgery and said I used PTO not medical leave and managers are required to work while on PTO, and I apparently was working while recovering from surgery and the fired me. I actually came into the office on recovery day three bleeding from my nose, but the first two days missed they fired me for.

I had another company I worked for only one week, the CEO told me we needed to go to the break room to celefrate "the Mexican's" birthday. I asked him what the person's name was, and he said it doesn't matter they are all the same so we just say "The Mexicans", I said I am sorry I am not comfortable calling them that and would rather not attend, got fired and was told I "didn't fit into their culture"

Current boss bullies everyone, makes racist comments, and pressures me to work nights and weekends when I took the job based on him saying overtime is not necessary and weekends are never worked. Made me come back from paternity early, makes demeaning comments about my wife and family situation. Says I should just worry about work and wife should stay home and raise kids...

So I don't trust anyone in charge at a corporation. You look our for you, that is what they are doing.
"Current boss bullies everyone, makes racist comments, and pressures me to work nights and weekends when I took the job based on him saying overtime is not necessary and weekends are never worked. Made me come back from paternity early, makes demeaning comments about my wife and family situation. Says I should just worry about work and wife should stay home and raise kids..."

So when are you getting the new job?
waiting to vest in 401K and waiting for right new job to come along....

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goingup
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by goingup » Wed May 22, 2019 1:28 pm

Meg77 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 12:38 pm
I'm confused by your question. The first part makes it sound like you experienced classic sexual harassment, but the second part makes it sound like you're talking about corruption and bribes. But the quotes around something leave the impression that you may also be confused by the offer and it may have been vague or open to misunderstanding.
Exactly. How can anyone give useful advice without understanding the "infraction".

Some of my working career put me in a position to give sales leads to sales reps in the company. It wasn't uncommon to be offered lunch, drinks, or more for playing favorites. I didn't play that way but it didn't bother me that they tried. If someone in senior management, who could impact my job, had tried that I would likely have been very nuanced in my response. Some people try to game the system and no one should be surprised or particularly offended by this unless the consequences for "not going along" are bad.

But again, the OP has to offer up more information.

lightheir
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by lightheir » Wed May 22, 2019 1:30 pm

bayview wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 1:01 pm
lightheir wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:51 am
At the risk of being really unpopular/devil's advocate here, and without knowing the full details, I'd say the approach this with nuance.

Too many social justice warriors make these things a black or white issue, and too quickly bust out the pitchforks at the first offense, when in reality you just need to make clear your intentions but be kind about turning such ill-conceived proposals down. This can also work in your favor if done gracefully and diplomatically, without you giving up your morals.

And no, I'm not trying to excuse egregious behavior like Harvey Weinstein etc. If it's that bad, damaging, and or a repeat offender, turn the guy in ASAP.
Just a general comment in reply to your post, not to OP: if no one ever reports these things, but just "make(s) clear your intentions but (is) kind about turning such ill-conceived proposals down", how does one know if it's a repeat offender?
Word gets out. Just ask Harvey Weinstein and all the other victims of the me-too movement, whose bad behavior was typically known for years ongoing just by word of mouth.

fyre4ce
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by fyre4ce » Wed May 22, 2019 3:31 pm

Much of this has already been said in one form or another, but here's my 2 cents. I've worked in corporate America in medium to large companies, and had one management position. Not currently a manager.

It would be helpful if you could tell us more details about what happened. I realize this may be difficult but it will let us give you better advice. Based on your original post I assumed you were propositioned for quid-pro-quo sexual harassment, but later comments about "kickbacks" made me think it was more financial, which would be strange between an executive and a subordinate.

There are some possible innocent scenarios that might fit your description. For instance, it's common for managers of different groups or projects to "trade" personnel, access to facilities and equipment, etc to try to get their particular project done on time, while also not hamstringing other projects within the company. Similarly with suppliers, in many cases there is "negotiation" along the lines of, do this extra work for no additional cost, we'll let you deliver this other hardware a month later in return. This is generally perfectly legal/legit, assuming there's no fraud involved, though might possibly seem improper to someone exposed to it for the first time.

Assuming the incident was not innocent, there are a few things to consider. You probably aren't the first person he's done this with. How big is the company and what is their culture? A certain media company has been in the news a bunch over the last few years because a culture of tolerating sexual harassment went all the way to the top. The HR people, though some were likely well-intentioned, ultimately report to executive leadership, and if executive leadership tolerates or even encourages sexual harassment, HR will be of little help. Also, how big the company is has an effect, both in how widespread the culture likely extends, and how easy it will be for you to find a new role somewhere else if you're ultimately involved in an ethics case involving this exec, and he isn't let go. Bigger works in your favor here. How good is their ethics department, if they even have one?

Depending on the company, I don't think it's a given that you'll lose your job (either by being fired directly, or by it being so hard to continue to work that your only practical option is to quit). But I would update the resume and start looking just in case.

Don't tolerate abuse, whether it's some sort of financial or sexual impropriety or something else. It's an unfortunate fact that in certain industries, those who complied with requests for sexual quid-pro-quos DID actually get the high-paying jobs they were promised. But personally, my dignity is worth more than that, I've been able to achieve financial success on my own merits, and (especially as a BH) I'm sure you can too. If you're being conscripted into some sort of illegal financial activity, definitely don't get involved. Your job will be at risk, and you're exposed to criminal prosecution. It's not worth it.

What evidence do you have of the incident? If it's a he-said she-said then it puts you in a tough spot. If you have no evidence and he denies it, he may pass an ethics investigation, and now you're working for someone who knows you triggered a potentially career-ending investigation. It's sad, but I'd be worried about retaliation in that case. If I were you and I decided the best thing to do is to quit, I would report it to HR and tell them I'm quitting as a result, even if I thought the whole company culture was corrupt. It may help change their culture and might possibly prevent other people from facing the same situation.

If you don't have evidence, you could consider addressing it with him directly. "I need to talk to you. When you said X I interpreted it as Y. That would be extremely inappropriate." If you misinterpreted what was said, that could come out in this conversation. If he doubles down, even if it's still he-said she-said, this will give your claim more weight. You could also consider surreptitiously recording the conversation with your cell phone.

If you do have evidence, I would take it to HR/ethics and gauge my expectations based on their culture. Like I said, I think it's prudent to job-shop elsewhere in any case, but you know better than us whether an investigation would be fair or not.

Hope that helps. Good luck.

smitcat
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by smitcat » Wed May 22, 2019 4:04 pm

fyre4ce wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 3:31 pm
Much of this has already been said in one form or another, but here's my 2 cents. I've worked in corporate America in medium to large companies, and had one management position. Not currently a manager.

It would be helpful if you could tell us more details about what happened. I realize this may be difficult but it will let us give you better advice. Based on your original post I assumed you were propositioned for quid-pro-quo sexual harassment, but later comments about "kickbacks" made me think it was more financial, which would be strange between an executive and a subordinate.

There are some possible innocent scenarios that might fit your description. For instance, it's common for managers of different groups or projects to "trade" personnel, access to facilities and equipment, etc to try to get their particular project done on time, while also not hamstringing other projects within the company. Similarly with suppliers, in many cases there is "negotiation" along the lines of, do this extra work for no additional cost, we'll let you deliver this other hardware a month later in return. This is generally perfectly legal/legit, assuming there's no fraud involved, though might possibly seem improper to someone exposed to it for the first time.

Assuming the incident was not innocent, there are a few things to consider. You probably aren't the first person he's done this with. How big is the company and what is their culture? A certain media company has been in the news a bunch over the last few years because a culture of tolerating sexual harassment went all the way to the top. The HR people, though some were likely well-intentioned, ultimately report to executive leadership, and if executive leadership tolerates or even encourages sexual harassment, HR will be of little help. Also, how big the company is has an effect, both in how widespread the culture likely extends, and how easy it will be for you to find a new role somewhere else if you're ultimately involved in an ethics case involving this exec, and he isn't let go. Bigger works in your favor here. How good is their ethics department, if they even have one?

Depending on the company, I don't think it's a given that you'll lose your job (either by being fired directly, or by it being so hard to continue to work that your only practical option is to quit). But I would update the resume and start looking just in case.

Don't tolerate abuse, whether it's some sort of financial or sexual impropriety or something else. It's an unfortunate fact that in certain industries, those who complied with requests for sexual quid-pro-quos DID actually get the high-paying jobs they were promised. But personally, my dignity is worth more than that, I've been able to achieve financial success on my own merits, and (especially as a BH) I'm sure you can too. If you're being conscripted into some sort of illegal financial activity, definitely don't get involved. Your job will be at risk, and you're exposed to criminal prosecution. It's not worth it.

What evidence do you have of the incident? If it's a he-said she-said then it puts you in a tough spot. If you have no evidence and he denies it, he may pass an ethics investigation, and now you're working for someone who knows you triggered a potentially career-ending investigation. It's sad, but I'd be worried about retaliation in that case. If I were you and I decided the best thing to do is to quit, I would report it to HR and tell them I'm quitting as a result, even if I thought the whole company culture was corrupt. It may help change their culture and might possibly prevent other people from facing the same situation.

If you don't have evidence, you could consider addressing it with him directly. "I need to talk to you. When you said X I interpreted it as Y. That would be extremely inappropriate." If you misinterpreted what was said, that could come out in this conversation. If he doubles down, even if it's still he-said she-said, this will give your claim more weight. You could also consider surreptitiously recording the conversation with your cell phone.

If you do have evidence, I would take it to HR/ethics and gauge my expectations based on their culture. Like I said, I think it's prudent to job-shop elsewhere in any case, but you know better than us whether an investigation would be fair or not.

Hope that helps. Good luck.
I cannot find the PO's statement where this person is clearly identified as a male?

fyre4ce
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by fyre4ce » Wed May 22, 2019 4:10 pm

smitcat wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 4:04 pm

I cannot find the PO's statement where this person is clearly identified as a male?
You're right, it was not stated explicitly. She did say "guys" but that's not conclusive. In any case,I wouldn't change my advice whether the exec is male or female.

rj342
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by rj342 » Wed May 22, 2019 4:12 pm

smitcat wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 4:04 pm
I cannot find the PO's statement where this person is clearly identified as a male?
OP says "guys" but thats ambiguous, at least outside of the South :P

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FIREchief
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by FIREchief » Wed May 22, 2019 5:35 pm

trustquestioner wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 5:28 am
The sad reality is that once you report, you are done at that company. HR is not your friend and they will try to get rid of you as cheaply and quickly as possible. It’s unfair and infuriating but you just have to get a new job.
If this is Megacorp, I beg to differ. I don't know how smaller businesses operate, but at Megacorp HR didn't "get rid" of anybody. They did micro-manage the getting rid of events, most often to make it difficult (and perhaps safe) for the guy behind the desk.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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corn18
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by corn18 » Wed May 22, 2019 5:46 pm

Report it via the ethics hotline. If this is something that made you uncomfortable, there may be others. Do not go to HR.
Don't do something, just stand there!

sksbog
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Re: Senior management/executives

Post by sksbog » Wed May 22, 2019 6:17 pm

I had a boss like this.
I found new job with better perks.
Used my exit interview to document the incident. Turned out others did so as well, and the manager got “disciplined “

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