Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

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HEDGEFUNDIE
Posts: 4801
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:06 pm

Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

staythecourse wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:35 pm
ks289 wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 11:59 am
“What’s disturbing about this research is that it shows that even if you distinguish yourself as a great student at a Tier 4 school, and by some miracle you get into a good grad program, you aren’t likely to wind up with the tools you need to ever catch up to those people who went to a more selective four-year college,” Dr. Avery said. “You want to think that at some point the playing field is level, but the truth is increasingly clear that the answer is it probably never is. By high school, it’s pretty much over.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/educ ... ch-up.html
I would love to read the article if you have suggestions on how to get through the paywall? It seems to be in conflict of some of data linked on here on past threads which I think was from ?payscale. I'm from IL and clearly remember that UofI (state school) grads have higher starting and mid career salaries then those who grad. from Northwestern and UofC. I remember there wasn't a great correlation of the "name" of the school and future salaries OUTSIDE of those of HYPS+ MIT and a few others.

Good luck.
This statement is false, plain and simple. You can review the data for yourself here, which comes straight from the federal government:

https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/ ... nteractive

As someone who also grew up in IL and went to Northwestern, and have dozens of friends who went to both, I can tell you that their average outcomes are not at all the same.

The U of I grads are mostly working in F500 companies as engineers or financial analysts making 90-120k with 2-3% salary growth per year.

The Northwestern grads are mostly in consulting, tech, law, medicine, at 200k and above.
staythecourse
Posts: 6993
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:40 am

Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by staythecourse »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 8:44 pm
staythecourse wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:35 pm
ks289 wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 11:59 am
“What’s disturbing about this research is that it shows that even if you distinguish yourself as a great student at a Tier 4 school, and by some miracle you get into a good grad program, you aren’t likely to wind up with the tools you need to ever catch up to those people who went to a more selective four-year college,” Dr. Avery said. “You want to think that at some point the playing field is level, but the truth is increasingly clear that the answer is it probably never is. By high school, it’s pretty much over.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/educ ... ch-up.html
I would love to read the article if you have suggestions on how to get through the paywall? It seems to be in conflict of some of data linked on here on past threads which I think was from ?payscale. I'm from IL and clearly remember that UofI (state school) grads have higher starting and mid career salaries then those who grad. from Northwestern and UofC. I remember there wasn't a great correlation of the "name" of the school and future salaries OUTSIDE of those of HYPS+ MIT and a few others.

Good luck.
This statement is false, plain and simple. You can review the data for yourself here, which comes straight from the federal government:

https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/ ... nteractive

As someone who also grew up in IL and went to Northwestern, and have dozens of friends who went to both, I can tell you that their average outcomes are not at all the same.

The U of I grads are mostly working in F500 companies as engineers or financial analysts making 90-120k with 2-3% salary growth per year.

The Northwestern grads are in consulting, tech, law, medicine, at 200k and above.
Nope your wrong. I don't have the time, but if you look at some old threads there are links to ?payscale that has starting and midcareer salaries or search my old posts. The UofI starting AND mid career were higher then the other two.

Now if you want to debate which data source/ methodology is MORE accurate I am no expert. But I am not remembering this incorrect according the source I saw.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle
HEDGEFUNDIE
Posts: 4801
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:06 pm

Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

staythecourse wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 8:50 pm
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 8:44 pm
staythecourse wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:35 pm
ks289 wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 11:59 am
“What’s disturbing about this research is that it shows that even if you distinguish yourself as a great student at a Tier 4 school, and by some miracle you get into a good grad program, you aren’t likely to wind up with the tools you need to ever catch up to those people who went to a more selective four-year college,” Dr. Avery said. “You want to think that at some point the playing field is level, but the truth is increasingly clear that the answer is it probably never is. By high school, it’s pretty much over.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/educ ... ch-up.html
I would love to read the article if you have suggestions on how to get through the paywall? It seems to be in conflict of some of data linked on here on past threads which I think was from ?payscale. I'm from IL and clearly remember that UofI (state school) grads have higher starting and mid career salaries then those who grad. from Northwestern and UofC. I remember there wasn't a great correlation of the "name" of the school and future salaries OUTSIDE of those of HYPS+ MIT and a few others.

Good luck.
This statement is false, plain and simple. You can review the data for yourself here, which comes straight from the federal government:

https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/ ... nteractive

As someone who also grew up in IL and went to Northwestern, and have dozens of friends who went to both, I can tell you that their average outcomes are not at all the same.

The U of I grads are mostly working in F500 companies as engineers or financial analysts making 90-120k with 2-3% salary growth per year.

The Northwestern grads are in consulting, tech, law, medicine, at 200k and above.
Nope your wrong. I don't have the time, but if you look at some old threads there are links to ?payscale that has starting and midcareer salaries or search my old posts. The UofI starting AND mid career were higher then the other two.

Now if you want to debate which data source/ methodology is MORE accurate I am no expert. But I am not remembering this incorrect according the source I saw.

Good luck.
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/ ... -Champaign

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/ ... University

Average salary out of NU is $69k, average salary out of UIUC is $61k.

What is even more striking about this is that the largest number of graduates from NU majored in communications and journalism (20%) while the largest major for UIUC is engineering (22%).

And yet NU grads still on average make more.
staythecourse
Posts: 6993
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:40 am

Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by staythecourse »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 8:56 pm
staythecourse wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 8:50 pm
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 8:44 pm
staythecourse wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:35 pm
ks289 wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 11:59 am
“What’s disturbing about this research is that it shows that even if you distinguish yourself as a great student at a Tier 4 school, and by some miracle you get into a good grad program, you aren’t likely to wind up with the tools you need to ever catch up to those people who went to a more selective four-year college,” Dr. Avery said. “You want to think that at some point the playing field is level, but the truth is increasingly clear that the answer is it probably never is. By high school, it’s pretty much over.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/educ ... ch-up.html
I would love to read the article if you have suggestions on how to get through the paywall? It seems to be in conflict of some of data linked on here on past threads which I think was from ?payscale. I'm from IL and clearly remember that UofI (state school) grads have higher starting and mid career salaries then those who grad. from Northwestern and UofC. I remember there wasn't a great correlation of the "name" of the school and future salaries OUTSIDE of those of HYPS+ MIT and a few others.

Good luck.
This statement is false, plain and simple. You can review the data for yourself here, which comes straight from the federal government:

https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/ ... nteractive

As someone who also grew up in IL and went to Northwestern, and have dozens of friends who went to both, I can tell you that their average outcomes are not at all the same.

The U of I grads are mostly working in F500 companies as engineers or financial analysts making 90-120k with 2-3% salary growth per year.

The Northwestern grads are in consulting, tech, law, medicine, at 200k and above.
Nope your wrong. I don't have the time, but if you look at some old threads there are links to ?payscale that has starting and midcareer salaries or search my old posts. The UofI starting AND mid career were higher then the other two.

Now if you want to debate which data source/ methodology is MORE accurate I am no expert. But I am not remembering this incorrect according the source I saw.

Good luck.
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/ ... -Champaign

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/ ... University

Average salary out of NU is $69k, average salary out of UIUC is $61k.

What is even more striking about this is that the largest number of graduates from NU majored in communications and journalism (20%) while the largest major for UIUC is engineering (22%).

And yet NU grads still on average make more.
I'm curious where this methodology is coming from? A quick glance has Northwestern annual tuition at 20 some thousand. Did you investigate the methodology of these reports? Any comment on how they got their data? Just trying to figure out how different sites (the ones you quote and the one I remember) are totally different.

Hoping someone remembers or has the link I remember being attached on a similar thread a couple of years ago?

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle
HEDGEFUNDIE
Posts: 4801
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:06 pm

Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

staythecourse wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 9:20 pm
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 8:56 pm
staythecourse wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 8:50 pm
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 8:44 pm
staythecourse wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:35 pm

I would love to read the article if you have suggestions on how to get through the paywall? It seems to be in conflict of some of data linked on here on past threads which I think was from ?payscale. I'm from IL and clearly remember that UofI (state school) grads have higher starting and mid career salaries then those who grad. from Northwestern and UofC. I remember there wasn't a great correlation of the "name" of the school and future salaries OUTSIDE of those of HYPS+ MIT and a few others.

Good luck.
This statement is false, plain and simple. You can review the data for yourself here, which comes straight from the federal government:

https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/ ... nteractive

As someone who also grew up in IL and went to Northwestern, and have dozens of friends who went to both, I can tell you that their average outcomes are not at all the same.

The U of I grads are mostly working in F500 companies as engineers or financial analysts making 90-120k with 2-3% salary growth per year.

The Northwestern grads are in consulting, tech, law, medicine, at 200k and above.
Nope your wrong. I don't have the time, but if you look at some old threads there are links to ?payscale that has starting and midcareer salaries or search my old posts. The UofI starting AND mid career were higher then the other two.

Now if you want to debate which data source/ methodology is MORE accurate I am no expert. But I am not remembering this incorrect according the source I saw.

Good luck.
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/ ... -Champaign

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/ ... University

Average salary out of NU is $69k, average salary out of UIUC is $61k.

What is even more striking about this is that the largest number of graduates from NU majored in communications and journalism (20%) while the largest major for UIUC is engineering (22%).

And yet NU grads still on average make more.
I'm curious where this methodology is coming from? A quick glance has Northwestern annual tuition at 20 some thousand. Did you investigate the methodology of these reports? Any comment on how they got their data? Just trying to figure out how different sites (the ones you quote and the one I remember) are totally different.

Hoping someone remembers or has the link I remember being attached on a similar thread a couple of years ago?

Good luck.
The average annual cost is listed as what the average student/parents pay out of pocket after financial aid.
softwaregeek
Posts: 597
Joined: Wed May 08, 2019 8:59 pm

Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by softwaregeek »

Bacchus01 wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:42 pm
staythecourse wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:30 pm
softwaregeek wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 3:52 pm We do pay for additional enrichment - about four hours a week of high quality math instruction, two hours a week of Mandarin language training, plus some non-academic stuff such as gymnastics and martial arts. I also personally tutor her in random programming languages on occasion and in Chess.
Public or private is a decision all parents need to make is best for their kid, but in either choice the quoted above is how a kid becomes successful. No school in the U.S.(except few) will do all the teaching the kids need to fulfill the potential. Challenging the child beyond what is expected at their level is how they become advanced in anything. Only makes sense (at least for me).

I don't know ANYBODY who is successful who did not do MORE then what is expected at any level of age. Those that challenged themselves tended to be more successful no matter public or private.

Good luck.
You think every kid, to be successful, needs to do aix hours a week of extra academics outside of school as a GRADE SCHOOLER?

No. Just no.
If the school offered a language, would do that. But elite elementary does not, so we provide it.

Math sucks too, 1700 kids in her first after school math program.

For what it's worth, she's been doing math competition since first grade.

Believe it or not, this is not considered unusual in silicon valley.

And also for what it's worth, I am one of those engineers people sneer at, although I am in management now.
softwaregeek
Posts: 597
Joined: Wed May 08, 2019 8:59 pm

Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by softwaregeek »

softwaregeek wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 11:02 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:42 pm
staythecourse wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:30 pm
softwaregeek wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 3:52 pm We do pay for additional enrichment - about four hours a week of high quality math instruction, two hours a week of Mandarin language training, plus some non-academic stuff such as gymnastics and martial arts. I also personally tutor her in random programming languages on occasion and in Chess.
Public or private is a decision all parents need to make is best for their kid, but in either choice the quoted above is how a kid becomes successful. No school in the U.S.(except few) will do all the teaching the kids need to fulfill the potential. Challenging the child beyond what is expected at their level is how they become advanced in anything. Only makes sense (at least for me).

I don't know ANYBODY who is successful who did not do MORE then what is expected at any level of age. Those that challenged themselves tended to be more successful no matter public or private.

Good luck.
You think every kid, to be successful, needs to do aix hours a week of extra academics outside of school as a GRADE SCHOOLER?

No. Just no.
If the school offered a language, would do that. But elite elementary does not, so we provide it.

Math sucks too, 1700 kids in her first after school math program.

For what it's worth, she's been doing math competition since first grade.

Believe it or not, this is not considered unusual in silicon valley.

And also for what it's worth, I am one of those engineers people sneer at, although I am in management now. Oddly enough, here in silicon valley we do not seem to be commodities.
ks289
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:42 pm

Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by ks289 »

softwaregeek wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 11:02 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:42 pm
staythecourse wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:30 pm
softwaregeek wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 3:52 pm We do pay for additional enrichment - about four hours a week of high quality math instruction, two hours a week of Mandarin language training, plus some non-academic stuff such as gymnastics and martial arts. I also personally tutor her in random programming languages on occasion and in Chess.
Public or private is a decision all parents need to make is best for their kid, but in either choice the quoted above is how a kid becomes successful. No school in the U.S.(except few) will do all the teaching the kids need to fulfill the potential. Challenging the child beyond what is expected at their level is how they become advanced in anything. Only makes sense (at least for me).

I don't know ANYBODY who is successful who did not do MORE then what is expected at any level of age. Those that challenged themselves tended to be more successful no matter public or private.

Good luck.
You think every kid, to be successful, needs to do aix hours a week of extra academics outside of school as a GRADE SCHOOLER?

No. Just no.
If the school offered a language, would do that. But elite elementary does not, so we provide it.

Math sucks too, 1700 kids in her first after school math program.

For what it's worth, she's been doing math competition since first grade.

Believe it or not, this is not considered unusual in silicon valley.

And also for what it's worth, I am one of those engineers people sneer at, although I am in management now.
Yes times have changed. This level of enrichment outside school isn’t unusual in my area or at my kids’ school either. Personally I’m not a big fan having grown up in the 80’s and early 90’s attending public school K-12 before this became more common. Zero extracurricular organized academics for me until high school.

To me, these differences in parental approaches can explain why some parents believe that most public schools are just fine for their kids, while others may seek something more. In my area, public schools do not have any programs or accommodations for academically gifted kids at all, and there is very limited stratification by ability until high school.

When you are K-2nd grade it probably doesn’t matter much since social development is more of a focus, but later on I think your daughter would be poorly served spending 30 hours a week for years in a place that did not challenge or stimulate her. She’d likely still turn out fine, and you’d save boatloads of money as other posters correctly point out, but she may be happier in a different environment with different peers. My kids were academic outliers in their public school which was welcomed and appreciated by peers at younger ages, but that really started to change as they got older and many of their classmates were spending large portions of their free time playing fortnight while my son did language and math classes.

These starkly different experiences highlight how parental guidance can be such a big factor and why a more academically challenging environment with similarly focused peers and parents may help support that approach better.
Bacchus01
Posts: 3182
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:35 pm

Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Bacchus01 »

softwaregeek wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 11:02 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:42 pm
staythecourse wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:30 pm
softwaregeek wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 3:52 pm We do pay for additional enrichment - about four hours a week of high quality math instruction, two hours a week of Mandarin language training, plus some non-academic stuff such as gymnastics and martial arts. I also personally tutor her in random programming languages on occasion and in Chess.
Public or private is a decision all parents need to make is best for their kid, but in either choice the quoted above is how a kid becomes successful. No school in the U.S.(except few) will do all the teaching the kids need to fulfill the potential. Challenging the child beyond what is expected at their level is how they become advanced in anything. Only makes sense (at least for me).

I don't know ANYBODY who is successful who did not do MORE then what is expected at any level of age. Those that challenged themselves tended to be more successful no matter public or private.

Good luck.
You think every kid, to be successful, needs to do aix hours a week of extra academics outside of school as a GRADE SCHOOLER?

No. Just no.
If the school offered a language, would do that. But elite elementary does not, so we provide it.

Math sucks too, 1700 kids in her first after school math program.

For what it's worth, she's been doing math competition since first grade.

Believe it or not, this is not considered unusual in silicon valley.

And also for what it's worth, I am one of those engineers people sneer at, although I am in management now.
Good for you. It’s mostly unnecessary but if it makes you feel better.

Other countries do that too. Some of my guys in China tell me about the hours of homework they do with their kids every evening. And yet, their goal is to come to the US for University. My kids live a much more balanced life, go to public school, have never had nearly the level of academic “enrichment” you talk about, and yet my oldest will start at a top 10 engineering university this fall.

Everyone thinks their kid is special and different. They are. Just not the way you think they are.
ks289
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:42 pm

Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by ks289 »

Bacchus01 wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 5:03 am
softwaregeek wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 11:02 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:42 pm
staythecourse wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:30 pm
softwaregeek wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 3:52 pm We do pay for additional enrichment - about four hours a week of high quality math instruction, two hours a week of Mandarin language training, plus some non-academic stuff such as gymnastics and martial arts. I also personally tutor her in random programming languages on occasion and in Chess.
Public or private is a decision all parents need to make is best for their kid, but in either choice the quoted above is how a kid becomes successful. No school in the U.S.(except few) will do all the teaching the kids need to fulfill the potential. Challenging the child beyond what is expected at their level is how they become advanced in anything. Only makes sense (at least for me).

I don't know ANYBODY who is successful who did not do MORE then what is expected at any level of age. Those that challenged themselves tended to be more successful no matter public or private.

Good luck.
You think every kid, to be successful, needs to do aix hours a week of extra academics outside of school as a GRADE SCHOOLER?

No. Just no.
If the school offered a language, would do that. But elite elementary does not, so we provide it.

Math sucks too, 1700 kids in her first after school math program.

For what it's worth, she's been doing math competition since first grade.

Believe it or not, this is not considered unusual in silicon valley.

And also for what it's worth, I am one of those engineers people sneer at, although I am in management now.
Good for you. It’s mostly unnecessary but if it makes you feel better.

Other countries do that too. Some of my guys in China tell me about the hours of homework they do with their kids every evening. And yet, their goal is to come to the US for University. My kids live a much more balanced life, go to public school, have never had nearly the level of academic “enrichment” you talk about, and yet my oldest will start at a top 10 engineering university this fall.

Everyone thinks their kid is special and different. They are. Just not the way you think they are.
Congratulations to you and your son. I personally share your opinion about having balance, but just be aware that the playing field is filled with “gunners” these days so be prepared. That kind of approach eventually burns out or isn’t as applicable once in the working environment, but it is pretty scary effective in school including in undergraduate engineering programs I imagine.

When you say working crazy hard is common in other countries, you’re damn right and here too especially among first and second generation immigrants. You can scoff at it, but I wouldn’t. I would have a healthy respect (or perhaps even slight fear) for those who are hungrier and able to outcompete others in fields like engineering which is rigorous and objective.

Good luck.
Bacchus01
Posts: 3182
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:35 pm

Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Bacchus01 »

ks289 wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 5:30 am
Bacchus01 wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 5:03 am
softwaregeek wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 11:02 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:42 pm
staythecourse wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:30 pm

Public or private is a decision all parents need to make is best for their kid, but in either choice the quoted above is how a kid becomes successful. No school in the U.S.(except few) will do all the teaching the kids need to fulfill the potential. Challenging the child beyond what is expected at their level is how they become advanced in anything. Only makes sense (at least for me).

I don't know ANYBODY who is successful who did not do MORE then what is expected at any level of age. Those that challenged themselves tended to be more successful no matter public or private.

Good luck.
You think every kid, to be successful, needs to do aix hours a week of extra academics outside of school as a GRADE SCHOOLER?

No. Just no.
If the school offered a language, would do that. But elite elementary does not, so we provide it.

Math sucks too, 1700 kids in her first after school math program.

For what it's worth, she's been doing math competition since first grade.

Believe it or not, this is not considered unusual in silicon valley.

And also for what it's worth, I am one of those engineers people sneer at, although I am in management now.
Good for you. It’s mostly unnecessary but if it makes you feel better.

Other countries do that too. Some of my guys in China tell me about the hours of homework they do with their kids every evening. And yet, their goal is to come to the US for University. My kids live a much more balanced life, go to public school, have never had nearly the level of academic “enrichment” you talk about, and yet my oldest will start at a top 10 engineering university this fall.

Everyone thinks their kid is special and different. They are. Just not the way you think they are.
Congratulations to you and your son. I personally share your opinion about having balance, but just be aware that the playing field is filled with “gunners” these days so be prepared. That kind of approach eventually burns out or isn’t as applicable once in the working environment, but it is pretty scary effective in school including in undergraduate engineering programs I imagine.

When you say working crazy hard is common in other countries, you’re damn right and here too especially among first and second generation immigrants. You can scoff at it, but I wouldn’t. I would have a healthy respect (or perhaps even slight fear) for those who are hungrier and able to outcompete others in fields like engineering which is rigorous and objective.

Good luck.
Oh, that’s right. Only immigrants work hard. Forgot that.

I never once implied that my son didn’t work hard. I don’t think him taking 4 hours of extra math in grade school would have mattered at all considering he got a 5 on his AP Calc test. However, his ability to carry on a reasonable conversation with someone probably will take him even further.
ks289
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:42 pm

Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by ks289 »

Bacchus01 wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 6:23 am
ks289 wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 5:30 am
Bacchus01 wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 5:03 am
softwaregeek wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 11:02 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:42 pm

You think every kid, to be successful, needs to do aix hours a week of extra academics outside of school as a GRADE SCHOOLER?

No. Just no.
If the school offered a language, would do that. But elite elementary does not, so we provide it.

Math sucks too, 1700 kids in her first after school math program.

For what it's worth, she's been doing math competition since first grade.

Believe it or not, this is not considered unusual in silicon valley.

And also for what it's worth, I am one of those engineers people sneer at, although I am in management now.
Good for you. It’s mostly unnecessary but if it makes you feel better.

Other countries do that too. Some of my guys in China tell me about the hours of homework they do with their kids every evening. And yet, their goal is to come to the US for University. My kids live a much more balanced life, go to public school, have never had nearly the level of academic “enrichment” you talk about, and yet my oldest will start at a top 10 engineering university this fall.

Everyone thinks their kid is special and different. They are. Just not the way you think they are.
Congratulations to you and your son. I personally share your opinion about having balance, but just be aware that the playing field is filled with “gunners” these days so be prepared. That kind of approach eventually burns out or isn’t as applicable once in the working environment, but it is pretty scary effective in school including in undergraduate engineering programs I imagine.

When you say working crazy hard is common in other countries, you’re damn right and here too especially among first and second generation immigrants. You can scoff at it, but I wouldn’t. I would have a healthy respect (or perhaps even slight fear) for those who are hungrier and able to outcompete others in fields like engineering which is rigorous and objective.

Good luck.
Oh, that’s right. Only immigrants work hard. Forgot that.

I never once implied that my son didn’t work hard. I don’t think him taking 4 hours of extra math in grade school would have mattered at all considering he got a 5 on his AP Calc test. However, his ability to carry on a reasonable conversation with someone probably will take him even further.
Good for you.
From your tone/comments you seemed to be implying that it is not necessary to work like that in the US and that's a foreign/Chinese thing!
You also suggest that extra math interferes with having good social skills (which I grant is not CONDUCIVE to developing social skills). Like I said, I'm mostly in your camp overall, but if you think that getting a 5 on AP Calc (AB or BC?) is the pinnacle of math accomplishment, you are mistaken. That's why I personally wouldn't sniff at that kind of training.

I've regularly interviewed kids for my college alma mater from a top US boarding school. I am blown away by their accomplishments--even the non-math oriented kids take BC calculus and get 5's and take multivariable calculus in high school, and 80% of them are rejected still. The math oriented kids are doing calculus in elementary or middle school and competing nationally and internationally by high school.
Flashes1
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Flashes1 »

Starfish wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 7:59 pm I find amazing that people judge the value of a school by arts and sports programs. Nobody seems to say: that school is good, it teaches kids a lot of math, physics, chemistry or biology. That school got gold in math Olympics.
Really, sports?

The most important thing in a school is to select and separate kids based on ability and intellectual levels and to promote some kind of competition. Most schools in US don't do this, private or public.
But everyone is different which makes life more interesting. Some parents are very interesting in a high school's chemistry program, some are very interested in a high school's football team. Both are fine by me.

I''m personally a huge football fan. There are two local Catholic schools whose football games are occasionally aired on ESPN. I think that's pretty cool. My high school football team stunk, and I hope my son can have a better winning environment. I'll see how good he is in 8th grade and see if it's worth my $ to put him in Catholic school.
staythecourse
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by staythecourse »

Flashes1 wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 8:09 am
Starfish wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 7:59 pm I find amazing that people judge the value of a school by arts and sports programs. Nobody seems to say: that school is good, it teaches kids a lot of math, physics, chemistry or biology. That school got gold in math Olympics.
Really, sports?

The most important thing in a school is to select and separate kids based on ability and intellectual levels and to promote some kind of competition. Most schools in US don't do this, private or public.
But everyone is different which makes life more interesting. Some parents are very interesting in a high school's chemistry program, some are very interested in a high school's football team. Both are fine by me.

I''m personally a huge football fan. There are two local Catholic schools whose football games are occasionally aired on ESPN. I think that's pretty cool. My high school football team stunk, and I hope my son can have a better winning environment. I'll see how good he is in 8th grade and see if it's worth my $ to put him in Catholic school.
As odd as it sounds to me this makes more sense as a reason to pick a specific school and pay extra for it. Right or wrong you are thinking about putting kid into School X since it has already shown significant success in doing activity Y which you find is important. They have the data and results to back it up. For example, If your kid loves debate and the private school has won state debate five out of the last 6 years I think it makes sense to consider paying extra knowing they are successful in grooming debate participants. Or If you want ivy and 1/2 of every class goes to ivy they must be doing something right. The issue we had was the privates in our area had NO data to support excellent academics they touted as their test scores weren't impressive, their placements for selective high schools and/ or colleges weren't impressive, etc...

I just think one needs to know WHY they are choosing x, y, and z school and be confident they have shown they have been successful at that quality in the recent past and not that they tell you to believe in their "black box".

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle
staythecourse
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Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by staythecourse »

Bacchus01 wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 6:23 am However, his ability to carry on a reasonable conversation with someone probably will take him even further.
I agree completely. Social skills are SO important in success in life (professional and personal). What I find interesting though is why folks think working extra on academics (in this discussion) is mutually exclusive to being "normal" socially? I am genuinely asking do you not think someone can't do both well? As an example to the poster of their kid doing extra math he/ she also has the child in a few NON academic endeavors, i.e. karate. So it obviously shows that they want to more balanced child otherwise they would have just signed up for 2 more hours of academics. No?

Good luck.

p.s. I have had this discussion with my kid's first grade teacher and have not gotten a good answer why folks think they have to mutually exclusive to each other, i.e. social vs. extra academic work to challenge the child.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle
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Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Isabelle77 »

zeal wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 3:39 pm
Of the ~15 people I've known who went to private school (met most of them when I was in college, some via sports/clubs/gov school while in high school), all but two of them have made some seriously terrible life choices with drugs and alcohol, gambling, debt, illegal street racing, and various other law-breaking activities. Of the two who somehow avoided all that, one has been incredibly successful in the music industry and the other has been working at a hardware store and has been working his way up to a recent promotion to manager. Both are exceptional people.

On the outside it seems overwhelmingly that the people from private schools have trouble relating with others and make some very poor/risky decisions, so my opinion would be to stick with the "good enough" public schools. However... I've never been to a private school, so I have no idea how large my sample size here is--obviously it could be skewed. Also it's not just their peers you have to consider, but your peers too--the parents of those kids.

If you have good kids, I would guess they'll succeed wherever you send them. Please let us know what you decide and why--I'm curious!
This is not a study, you know 15 people. I went to an elite boarding school and the vast majority of my classmates have been extremely successful and lead normal lives. I do have a friend from public school who is a bartender at 42...so are all public school kids destined to become bartenders?

These stories of "private school kids are awkward" "private schools are the only way to get to the Ivies" "public schools are full of losers" "private schools are full of mean rich kids who do drugs" "private schools are just for white elitists" are ridiculous.

Every private school is different. Every child is different. Not every decision is financial or about the likely future median income of your 6yr old. Most people (not on Bogleheads) are not thinking about the chance of their 2nd grader getting into Harvard. They just want them to love school and do their best. There are lots of ways to do that and the answer isn't a one based on a poster's personal experience with "that kid from private school" or "that time I attended public school".

OP, all the best in your decision.
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Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by thx1138 »

staythecourse wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 9:44 am p.s. I have had this discussion with my kid's first grade teacher and have not gotten a good answer why folks think they have to mutually exclusive to each other, i.e. social vs. extra academic work to challenge the child.
Well and to carry it further especially in young children being unchallenged often leads to asocial behavior.

To that end as some others have said there are only so many hours in a day and so much attention span for a child. In an ideal world you get the right level of challenge in school rather than having the poor kid bored in school and then having to take extra time to actually be challenged outside of school.

Of course some schools, public or private, do a good job of this and others don't. And in many cases it really does depend on the child as one school might have just the right environment for one child but struggle in providing a positive environment for another.

I think a lot of public/private debates miss the fundamental point that there is typically very little choice in which public your child attends unless you happen to be able to move easily which most folks can't. So privates are the only other option if the somewhat arbitrary selection of the local public doesn't provide what you think your child needs.

In some sense the question is "should I even choose what school my kid goes to or just accept the choice the local government makes for me". Framed that way I think lots of people would immediately say they should choose, but of course there is a huge financial idiosyncrasy in that the "forgo choice" option is vastly less expensive. And thus begins the endless debate as to whether the differences between the various choices are worth the extreme cost of choosing something other than the default selection based on your location and all the complexities of potentially gaming that selection by moving to a particular district.

For the OP who specifically states cost is entirely off of the table and of no importance, well do you choose what coffee shop you go to? Do you choose what grocery store you shop at? When you bought your house did you shop around? Yes? Then you should probably look at a variety of schools and weigh that choice carefully and most certainly still include the free option that is available to you as well.
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Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by dknightd »

Do whatever makes you happy, there is no right answer
If you value a bird in the hand, pay off the loan. If you are willing to risk getting two birds (or none) from the market, invest the funds. Retired 9/19. Still working on mortgage payoff.
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Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by zeal »

Isabelle77 wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 10:18 am
zeal wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 3:39 pm
Of the ~15 people I've known who went to private school (met most of them when I was in college, some via sports/clubs/gov school while in high school), all but two of them have made some seriously terrible life choices with drugs and alcohol, gambling, debt, illegal street racing, and various other law-breaking activities. Of the two who somehow avoided all that, one has been incredibly successful in the music industry and the other has been working at a hardware store and has been working his way up to a recent promotion to manager. Both are exceptional people.

On the outside it seems overwhelmingly that the people from private schools have trouble relating with others and make some very poor/risky decisions, so my opinion would be to stick with the "good enough" public schools. However... I've never been to a private school, so I have no idea how large my sample size here is--obviously it could be skewed. Also it's not just their peers you have to consider, but your peers too--the parents of those kids.

If you have good kids, I would guess they'll succeed wherever you send them. Please let us know what you decide and why--I'm curious!
This is not a study, you know 15 people. I went to an elite boarding school and the vast majority of my classmates have been extremely successful and lead normal lives. I do have a friend from public school who is a bartender at 42...so are all public school kids destined to become bartenders?

These stories of "private school kids are awkward" "private schools are the only way to get to the Ivies" "public schools are full of losers" "private schools are full of mean rich kids who do drugs" "private schools are just for white elitists" are ridiculous.

Every private school is different. Every child is different. Not every decision is financial or about the likely future median income of your 6yr old. Most people (not on Bogleheads) are not thinking about the chance of their 2nd grader getting into Harvard. They just want them to love school and do their best. There are lots of ways to do that and the answer isn't a one based on a poster's personal experience with "that kid from private school" or "that time I attended public school".

OP, all the best in your decision.
Wasn't saying it's the same as everyone else's, but was just sharing my personal experience--hence,
zeal wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 3:39 pm ...I have no idea how large my sample size here is--obviously it could be skewed.
For every kid like me who loved public school there is probably a kid who loved private school, and for every kid who hated public school there is probably a kid who hated private school--I obviously haven't met them all, but I do know that everyone is unique. No matter where you send your kids, they're probably just gonna be who they're gonna be. The public/private decision is ultimately just an opinion... Which is why this thread is 6 pages long and will probably continue to grow. I think we can both agree there is no right answer.
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Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Glockenspiel »

There's got to be a middle ground. I would go to "very good" public school over any private school, 10 times out of 10.

I do not want my kids to think they have a silver spoon in their mouths. That is my one hesitation with all private schools. You are setting them up to have a very expensive lifestyle, which could lead to a not very high net worth (though they'll probably get your inheritance down the road). They need to work hard for what they have. I think you'll find at very good public schools that most all the kids work hard and don't have an elitist attitude.

Can you move to one of the best public school districts in your state?
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Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Isabelle77 »

Glockenspiel wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 11:19 am There's got to be a middle ground. I would go to "very good" public school over any private school, 10 times out of 10.

I do not want my kids to think they have a silver spoon in their mouths. That is my one hesitation with all private schools. You are setting them up to have a very expensive lifestyle, which could lead to a not very high net worth (though they'll probably get your inheritance down the road). They need to work hard for what they have. I think you'll find at very good public schools that most all the kids work hard and don't have an elitist attitude.

Can you move to one of the best public school districts in your state?
So this is a good example of my previous point. My kids are currently in private schools, one of my daughter's best friends lives in a trailer park, she's on a scholarship. 40% of the students at my kids' private school receive some kind of financial aid. We're moving to the Boston area and you're telling me that the Newton or Lexington or Winchester public school districts are less elitist? That kids who live in those districts are somehow more diverse?
Isabelle77
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Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Isabelle77 »

zeal wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 11:08 am
Isabelle77 wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 10:18 am
zeal wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 3:39 pm
Of the ~15 people I've known who went to private school (met most of them when I was in college, some via sports/clubs/gov school while in high school), all but two of them have made some seriously terrible life choices with drugs and alcohol, gambling, debt, illegal street racing, and various other law-breaking activities. Of the two who somehow avoided all that, one has been incredibly successful in the music industry and the other has been working at a hardware store and has been working his way up to a recent promotion to manager. Both are exceptional people.

On the outside it seems overwhelmingly that the people from private schools have trouble relating with others and make some very poor/risky decisions, so my opinion would be to stick with the "good enough" public schools. However... I've never been to a private school, so I have no idea how large my sample size here is--obviously it could be skewed. Also it's not just their peers you have to consider, but your peers too--the parents of those kids.

If you have good kids, I would guess they'll succeed wherever you send them. Please let us know what you decide and why--I'm curious!
This is not a study, you know 15 people. I went to an elite boarding school and the vast majority of my classmates have been extremely successful and lead normal lives. I do have a friend from public school who is a bartender at 42...so are all public school kids destined to become bartenders?

These stories of "private school kids are awkward" "private schools are the only way to get to the Ivies" "public schools are full of losers" "private schools are full of mean rich kids who do drugs" "private schools are just for white elitists" are ridiculous.

Every private school is different. Every child is different. Not every decision is financial or about the likely future median income of your 6yr old. Most people (not on Bogleheads) are not thinking about the chance of their 2nd grader getting into Harvard. They just want them to love school and do their best. There are lots of ways to do that and the answer isn't a one based on a poster's personal experience with "that kid from private school" or "that time I attended public school".

OP, all the best in your decision.
Wasn't saying it's the same as everyone else's, but was just sharing my personal experience--hence,
zeal wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 3:39 pm ...I have no idea how large my sample size here is--obviously it could be skewed.
For every kid like me who loved public school there is probably a kid who loved private school, and for every kid who hated public school there is probably a kid who hated private school--I obviously haven't met them all, but I do know that everyone is unique. No matter where you send your kids, they're probably just gonna be who they're gonna be. The public/private decision is ultimately just an opinion... Which is why this thread is 6 pages long and will probably continue to grow. I think we can both agree there is no right answer.
Yes, absolutely agree.
staythecourse
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Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by staythecourse »

zeal wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 11:08 am Which is why this thread is 6 pages long and will probably continue to grow. I think we can both agree there is no right answer.
Agreed. There is no right or wrong. I think everyone would agree you have to do what is best for you kid and family AFTER closely looking at all the options on the table.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle
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Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Starfish »

Bacchus01 wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 5:03 am
softwaregeek wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 11:02 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:42 pm
staythecourse wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:30 pm
softwaregeek wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 3:52 pm We do pay for additional enrichment - about four hours a week of high quality math instruction, two hours a week of Mandarin language training, plus some non-academic stuff such as gymnastics and martial arts. I also personally tutor her in random programming languages on occasion and in Chess.
Public or private is a decision all parents need to make is best for their kid, but in either choice the quoted above is how a kid becomes successful. No school in the U.S.(except few) will do all the teaching the kids need to fulfill the potential. Challenging the child beyond what is expected at their level is how they become advanced in anything. Only makes sense (at least for me).

I don't know ANYBODY who is successful who did not do MORE then what is expected at any level of age. Those that challenged themselves tended to be more successful no matter public or private.

Good luck.
You think every kid, to be successful, needs to do aix hours a week of extra academics outside of school as a GRADE SCHOOLER?

No. Just no.
If the school offered a language, would do that. But elite elementary does not, so we provide it.

Math sucks too, 1700 kids in her first after school math program.

For what it's worth, she's been doing math competition since first grade.

Believe it or not, this is not considered unusual in silicon valley.

And also for what it's worth, I am one of those engineers people sneer at, although I am in management now.
Good for you. It’s mostly unnecessary but if it makes you feel better.

Other countries do that too. Some of my guys in China tell me about the hours of homework they do with their kids every evening. And yet, their goal is to come to the US for University. My kids live a much more balanced life, go to public school, have never had nearly the level of academic “enrichment” you talk about, and yet my oldest will start at a top 10 engineering university this fall.

Everyone thinks their kid is special and different. They are. Just not the way you think they are.
While I disagree completely with Asian style of excess, ask your kid what is your ratio between american and Asian kids (or of Asian ethnicity) in that top 10 engineering school.
The way I see it, a lot of people around me come from this environment. Practically there are only few native Americans in these 2-500k mid level jobs in my area. You cannot deny the success of their method.
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Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Starfish »

staythecourse wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 9:44 am
Bacchus01 wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 6:23 am However, his ability to carry on a reasonable conversation with someone probably will take him even further.
I agree completely. Social skills are SO important in success in life (professional and personal). What I find interesting though is why folks think working extra on academics (in this discussion) is mutually exclusive to being "normal" socially?
From my outsider point of view: I believe it comes from the fact that is "abnormal" to be strong academically. If the school does not force it, then only the kind with the drive to do it themselves will become strong academically. The type of kids who would rather work on a math problem than play are probably not great at social iteraction.

In countries/schools/families were academic performance is enforced upon everybody there no difference in social aspects between high performing kids and the others.
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Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Regattamom »

Starfish wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 2:01 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 5:03 am
softwaregeek wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 11:02 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:42 pm
staythecourse wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:30 pm

Public or private is a decision all parents need to make is best for their kid, but in either choice the quoted above is how a kid becomes successful. No school in the U.S.(except few) will do all the teaching the kids need to fulfill the potential. Challenging the child beyond what is expected at their level is how they become advanced in anything. Only makes sense (at least for me).

I don't know ANYBODY who is successful who did not do MORE then what is expected at any level of age. Those that challenged themselves tended to be more successful no matter public or private.

Good luck.
You think every kid, to be successful, needs to do aix hours a week of extra academics outside of school as a GRADE SCHOOLER?

No. Just no.
If the school offered a language, would do that. But elite elementary does not, so we provide it.

Math sucks too, 1700 kids in her first after school math program.

For what it's worth, she's been doing math competition since first grade.

Believe it or not, this is not considered unusual in silicon valley.

And also for what it's worth, I am one of those engineers people sneer at, although I am in management now.
Good for you. It’s mostly unnecessary but if it makes you feel better.

Other countries do that too. Some of my guys in China tell me about the hours of homework they do with their kids every evening. And yet, their goal is to come to the US for University. My kids live a much more balanced life, go to public school, have never had nearly the level of academic “enrichment” you talk about, and yet my oldest will start at a top 10 engineering university this fall.

Everyone thinks their kid is special and different. They are. Just not the way you think they are.
While I disagree completely with Asian style of excess, ask your kid what is your ratio between american and Asian kids (or of Asian ethnicity) in that top 10 engineering school.
The way I see it, a lot of people around me come from this environment. Practically there are only few native Americans in these 2-500k mid level jobs in my area. You cannot deny the success of their method.
Interesting. The people I know making that kind of money ($200 - 500k) are almost exclusively white and male. But I don't know many engineers.
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Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by stoptothink »

Regattamom wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 3:07 pm
Starfish wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 2:01 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 5:03 am
softwaregeek wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 11:02 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 7:42 pm

You think every kid, to be successful, needs to do aix hours a week of extra academics outside of school as a GRADE SCHOOLER?

No. Just no.
If the school offered a language, would do that. But elite elementary does not, so we provide it.

Math sucks too, 1700 kids in her first after school math program.

For what it's worth, she's been doing math competition since first grade.

Believe it or not, this is not considered unusual in silicon valley.

And also for what it's worth, I am one of those engineers people sneer at, although I am in management now.
Good for you. It’s mostly unnecessary but if it makes you feel better.

Other countries do that too. Some of my guys in China tell me about the hours of homework they do with their kids every evening. And yet, their goal is to come to the US for University. My kids live a much more balanced life, go to public school, have never had nearly the level of academic “enrichment” you talk about, and yet my oldest will start at a top 10 engineering university this fall.

Everyone thinks their kid is special and different. They are. Just not the way you think they are.
While I disagree completely with Asian style of excess, ask your kid what is your ratio between american and Asian kids (or of Asian ethnicity) in that top 10 engineering school.
The way I see it, a lot of people around me come from this environment. Practically there are only few native Americans in these 2-500k mid level jobs in my area. You cannot deny the success of their method.
Interesting. The people I know making that kind of money ($200 - 500k) are almost exclusively white and male. But I don't know many engineers.
No doubt, most of the wealthy individuals I know are white and male, but median salary by ethnicity; it is Asians, and it isn't close https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2018/09/incom ... ew-of-data . I don't know how relevant that is to the discussion and don't want to get this shut down, but that's a fact.
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Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by staythecourse »

stoptothink wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 3:13 pm
Regattamom wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 3:07 pm
Starfish wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 2:01 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Thu May 23, 2019 5:03 am
softwaregeek wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 11:02 pm
If the school offered a language, would do that. But elite elementary does not, so we provide it.

Math sucks too, 1700 kids in her first after school math program.

For what it's worth, she's been doing math competition since first grade.

Believe it or not, this is not considered unusual in silicon valley.

And also for what it's worth, I am one of those engineers people sneer at, although I am in management now.
Good for you. It’s mostly unnecessary but if it makes you feel better.

Other countries do that too. Some of my guys in China tell me about the hours of homework they do with their kids every evening. And yet, their goal is to come to the US for University. My kids live a much more balanced life, go to public school, have never had nearly the level of academic “enrichment” you talk about, and yet my oldest will start at a top 10 engineering university this fall.

Everyone thinks their kid is special and different. They are. Just not the way you think they are.
While I disagree completely with Asian style of excess, ask your kid what is your ratio between american and Asian kids (or of Asian ethnicity) in that top 10 engineering school.
The way I see it, a lot of people around me come from this environment. Practically there are only few native Americans in these 2-500k mid level jobs in my area. You cannot deny the success of their method.
Interesting. The people I know making that kind of money ($200 - 500k) are almost exclusively white and male. But I don't know many engineers.
No doubt, most of the wealthy individuals I know are white and male, but median salary by ethnicity; it is Asians, and it isn't close https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2018/09/incom ... ew-of-data . I don't know how relevant that is to the discussion and don't want to get this shut down, but that's a fact.
That alone is not the most impressive. The fact Asians have the lowest crime rates and incarceration rates of any group. I don't think it is a stretch to say Asians are by far the most successful group in the USA. Also heard one in 8 start ups in silicon valley are Indian. They are also usually close knit as a family unit as well.

Can't deny their level of success. Interesting instead of trying to emulate them folks like to throw stones. Not sure I see that any where else.

Good luck.
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Re: Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

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