staythecourse wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 11:11 am
ks289 wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 11:21 pm
staythecourse wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 5:48 pm
international001 wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 5:32 pm
- research shows that there is little difference in going public vs private in life salary outcomes (when you control for everything else)
This was one of my big reasons of us doing public. IF private can guarantee better pre college education or better test scores or better college acceptances or better starting earnings or better lifetime earnings I would give them TWICE the money they are asking. What they are asking is GUARANTEED a larger outlay then public (free) with no substance they produce much better returns.
It is interesting folks on this site who are so against active management because there is not guarantee of better returns despite higher costs are so willing to give money to folks who have NOT shown any data they can produce better return.
The funnies thing was hearing my question from the back of EVERY school forum when we were looking as to why I should pick their school and give them money unless they can show me they produce better students. The crickets in the air from them AND the fellow audience members were deafening yet they still have no problem filling their spots.
Now there are plenty of excellent private schools who do produce great results, but then again they are usually very selective so it is still a nature vs. nuture thing.
Your expectation for guaranteed benefits is pretty high don’t you think? Should doctors guarantee a good outcome when we initiate a treatment supported by randomized controlled studies demonstrating a significant benefit? No we should not. And yes we are required to bill for our services knowing we will not be able to heal everyone.
Such guarantees simply don’t exist in life, even if there are randomized studies (which there aren’t for this topic). Yes there are some studies of lottery systems for urban kids to attend private schools out there, but that hardly matches the scenario here (good public vs elite private school). Too much heterogeneity in both public and private schools to really have any kind of meaningful studies to answer these kinds of questions in my opinion.
Plenty of studies demonstrate higher performance in private schools vs public. Clearly the outperformance is largely eliminated when correcting for socioeconomic factors. HOWEVER, the fact that some wealthy parents decide to send their kids to public while others send to private is NOT RANDOM, and probably it is because of their judgement based on individual circumstances (how do the school options compare, what fits my kid better, etc).
If one can afford private school, we should not rely on inflexible rules or crappy data and ignore the circumstances. We should try to use our best judgement like we do with most of our decisions in life. I think most times both options will work out just fine for most kids, but some kids really may benefit from something different from the public school option. A public/private school decision is ultimately not very different from choosing to live in a more expensive or higher tax town with good public schools vs a cheaper town with lousier public schools.
As usual a lot of talk and no substance. Where in your response do you mention that private gets better returns of ANY type? You don't so you agree that you are paying money for no obvious financial/ educational advantage.
I am not saying don't do private. What I am saying is there is not data to support private produces any better returns then public, BUT the difference is you are paying for it. Unless you are VERY wealthy, i.e. 10+ million the money that is spent there and lost to no compounding over decades really cost you 1+ million for a couple of kids. That is a significant opportunity cost unless there is SOME/ ANY data to support private has advantages.
No worries there will be plenty of folks continue to believe private gets you some opportunity advantage and those schools are blessed to have those parents around otherwise the would fold. IN our metro area it is funny how hard they are advertising now since many of the rich send their kids to the high performing public schools in the area.
IN reality private and public (outside of a minority) are a joke on the educational map of develped country considering how much we spend per pupil. We figured that out awhile ago and know it is up to us to advance education of our child and NOT public or private.
I think you are missing my point and sound extremely confident about your knowledge and decision making prowess. Show me the data for 99+% of the decisions you make in your life! Even medical decisions--there are huge black holes in the data to guide decisions we make every day. There's plenty of opinion of course -which actually has some merit when well supported.
I think you know by now that I link studies frequently in my posts to support certain factual points, but I also point out the limitations in attempting to generalize non randomized/prospective studies that are frequently cited here on both sides.
"Overall, there were many similarities in the results for the two grades. In both reading and mathematics, analyses employing unadjusted NAEP scores indicated that the average private school mean score was higher than the average public school mean score
, and the difference was statistically significant."
https://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/p ... 006461.pdf
However, this is not particularly helpful data because it is not adjusted for student characteristics, but there's plenty of data like this out there on both sides--that's my point about trying to use data to guide this. We actually agree here! What's different is that you assume then there is no difference
, while I am not that sure because high quality data doesn't exist (and most likely never will). This includes the college decision.
"The reasons for the disparity are easy to track, said Christopher Avery, a professor of public policy at Harvard’s John F. Kennedy School of Government who has written extensively on college as an agent of social mobility. Students who earn a degree from an elite college, even those with unimpressive grades and test scores, are simply too far ahead of those who don’t, he said."
“What’s disturbing about this research is that it shows that even if you distinguish yourself as a great student at a Tier 4 school, and by some miracle you get into a good grad program, you aren’t likely to wind up with the tools you need to ever catch up to those people who went to a more selective four-year college,” Dr. Avery said. “You want to think that at some point the playing field is level, but the truth is increasingly clear that the answer is it probably never is. By high school, it’s pretty much over.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/educ ... ch-up.html
The obvious point is that if you have ten million dollars like the OP and there is a clear disparity between the public/private choices, then you CAN afford to spend money on education and you MIGHT be helping your kids (or not). If you don't have that kind of money or the choices are comparable, then probably you should save it for something else.
We are able to fund an early retirement, fund college expenses, and pay for private elementary/middle school tuition for our kids because we decided it suited them better. Our tradeoff is not having nice cars, a boat, a vacation home, or $5000 watches---these things are not that important to us.