Very High Net Worth, elite private or “good” public

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Oroadsm1
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Oroadsm1 »

It’s been a while, but I went to McDonogh and I have a number of friends sending their kids there. I would not send my kids their, although I am in Howard county and the schools at the upper end there are comparable. You do get a great education, it will help your kids get into “better” colleges (in quotes because I think that’s a bit overrated). However, if you think you are avoiding behavioral problems , you are mistaken, the problems are just different. Also, the school has had some very bad press recently although I have no idea of the long term effects of that.
RJC
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by RJC »

Also, going to an elite private does not guarantee anything. I know some folks that went the private school route (Bullis, Sidwell Friends, etc.) and ended up in pretty much the same place as me (going to a professional school post primary college).
Last edited by RJC on Sat May 18, 2019 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bltn
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by bltn »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 1:05 pm
bltn wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 12:34 pm Their high school stratified students academically. The top 20-30 students took many of the same classes together and had the same teachers. The same for the next 25-30 students down the academic ladder.
That can be dangerous for some kids. My kids are somewhat slow developing. My son was tracked to a low achieving math track in middle school, placed in remedial math classes, and the school refused to reevaluate. When he went to the private school, they evaluated him and put him in advanced math classes. Long story short, he graduated from Yale with a combined Bachelors and Masters in computer science with an emphasis on math heavy topics.

My takeaway: some well regarded schools are so busy reading their press clippings that they have no time to reconsider their decisions.
Congratulations on your adjustment of your son s education and his subsequent academic success. Another example of the importance in staying involved with your kids education.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by TomatoTomahto »

ThankYouJack wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:57 pm IMO, seems like there's some bigotry in some of the responses. I had a friend in HS with a BMW and she wasn't elitist and her family wasn't loaded. She never felt entitled and turned out well. I realize we're a LBYM don't waste money type of crowd, but until we actually get to know people how much judging should we do?
There’s a fair amount of bigotry here on occasion. Thankfully, not always.

My kids drove Volvos. I made it clear to them that it was for their mother and me that we had them drive new Volvos, because I couldn’t bear the thought of an accident if they weren’t at least in a safe car.

I do not apologize for the Volvos.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
venkman
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by venkman »

finite_difference wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 8:26 am I generally agree with this, but paying $30k per year for 13 years (K-12) seems like a steep cost to recover, if you can get basically the same thing for free (not really free but you are already paying for it.)

That’s $390k. Probably more like $600k by the time they are 18, and $3,000,000 thirty years after that.
+1

An expensive education could offer them the chance at a lucrative career.

A big pile of money will make a lucrative career unnecessary, and will let them choose the kind of work they WANT to do.
Vanguard Fan 1367
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Vanguard Fan 1367 »

I sent my kids to a not so hot public school. In retrospect I might have dug a little deeper and tried the private school route. I would have liked for my kids to share my values and I don't feel that those values were well taught in the public school.
Upton Sinclair: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."
susze
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by susze »

GCD wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 2:15 pm
susze wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 2:03 pm Be very careful about hidden costs of forced donations. Its mostly with top 10 boarding schools but has trickled down into many day schools.

It usually requires an additional 25-50k a year in donations depending on the school. They get you 2 ways. One, if you have a sibling they will not allow that sibling to get in, the other way is that they wont endorse you to apply to colleges of your choice.
That's crazy. Do you have a source for that? I don't doubt you, I'm just curious about it.
Yes have had extended family members and one colleague experience this. No link or source. Talking elite boarding schools ones that attract many top foreign students and place more than half the class in ivy caliber schools. No extortion, no pressure, its just known.
HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

susze wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 9:47 pm
GCD wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 2:15 pm
susze wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 2:03 pm Be very careful about hidden costs of forced donations. Its mostly with top 10 boarding schools but has trickled down into many day schools.

It usually requires an additional 25-50k a year in donations depending on the school. They get you 2 ways. One, if you have a sibling they will not allow that sibling to get in, the other way is that they wont endorse you to apply to colleges of your choice.
That's crazy. Do you have a source for that? I don't doubt you, I'm just curious about it.
Yes have had extended family members and one colleague experience this. No link or source. Talking elite boarding schools ones that attract many top foreign students and place more than half the class in ivy caliber schools. No extortion, no pressure, its just known.
My sister went to Choate which is high on the list of “elite boarding schools”. We received letters in the mail regularly asking for donations but really no different from what my top 25 private university would send as well.

We just threw the letters in the trash as junk mail. She graduated from the school just fine, and ended up at a top 25 university herself.
ks289
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by ks289 »

susze wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 9:47 pm
GCD wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 2:15 pm
susze wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 2:03 pm Be very careful about hidden costs of forced donations. Its mostly with top 10 boarding schools but has trickled down into many day schools.

It usually requires an additional 25-50k a year in donations depending on the school. They get you 2 ways. One, if you have a sibling they will not allow that sibling to get in, the other way is that they wont endorse you to apply to colleges of your choice.
That's crazy. Do you have a source for that? I don't doubt you, I'm just curious about it.
Yes have had extended family members and one colleague experience this. No link or source. Talking elite boarding schools ones that attract many top foreign students and place more than half the class in ivy caliber schools. No extortion, no pressure, its just known.
Subtle pressure from some schools and among parents for donating is certainly present, but what you portray is definitely way beyond the expectations for the schools we are familiar with (a top U.S. boarding school and one of its feeder schools). We’ve donated far less than what you say, and we’re not treated like outcasts. If fact, low four digit annual donations have brought many thanks from the school, recognition as higher level donors, and invitations to special events. These measures are clearly designed to encourage additional donations of course. It can be ridiculously transparent (through listings by donation level in school publications) how much people are donating, and it ain’t typically $25,000-$50,000 annually!
bluebolt
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by bluebolt »

stoptothink wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:41 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:28 pm I wasn’t talking genetics, but since you are, the report states that 49% of traits are hereditary. Am I missing something about your argument?
That is a VERY well known study (obviously, it is in Nature) and I have no idea how it is relevant to what you said. Not saying Bluebolt is necessarily wrong, but as someone who designs studies for a living, my initial thought is I'd love to hear an objective method of collecting generalizable evidence on the subject at all. Anecdotally, I'm totally with you on this one.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm assuming your study design doesn't come with a background in genetics or biology.
mpnret
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by mpnret »

Attending private school worked out well for me but looking back I feel I missed out on a lot of life experiences I could have benefited from in public school. Wanting the best of both worlds for our kids we moved to the area with the best public school system. Kids are out of college now and we consider this the best move ever.
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beyou
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by beyou »

All depends on your specific options in your area, whih is hard for others to judge/analyze.

In our case, after some frustration with our public schools at the elementary level, we looked around, and despite some decent private options, did not feel it was necessarily better. And from talking to parents of older HS kids, turned out our HS had much more to offer than most private HS in our area. So we toughed it out in elementary at our local publics, and the kids had a great experience in HS. Money saved paid for top colleges to which they were admitted (despite public school secondary education). Bot were able to compete at the highest levels in college, with the public school prep they received. But we do live in a very high property tax area where people move for the school district. Despite the reputation, it did warrant analysis if it was right for our kids, and it was.
Bacchus01
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Bacchus01 »

GCD wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:36 pm
RickBoglehead wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:21 pm I was referring to high school students driving BMWs and other cars that IMO a high school student should not have access to.
So how does this work if the family car is a BMW?

The inherent problem with being high wealth is your kids will inevitably live a high net worth lifestyle. In the long run, that will work out however it does because you can't really force the kid to go live in a 2 bedroom apartment somewhere while they are still a kid. Never eat out at nice places and only take the kid to McDonalds? How do you separate your kid from your lifestyle?

It seems silly to expect that a family with a BMW and a Mercedes should go out and buy a Camry just to make the kid drive something "normal". Presumably the kid grew up being driven around by his parents in a BMW. Which is worse, making the kid drive mom's car to school (which is a BMW), or buying the kid his own car (of any type)?
I drove a BMW. It was approaching 100K miles and time to get something new. My son was turning 16. I sold the BMW, bought a new car for myself and then bought him a used Hyundai. No way in heck was he driving a BMW to high school.
laohan
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by laohan »

susze wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 9:47 pm
GCD wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 2:15 pm
susze wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 2:03 pm Be very careful about hidden costs of forced donations. Its mostly with top 10 boarding schools but has trickled down into many day schools.

It usually requires an additional 25-50k a year in donations depending on the school. They get you 2 ways. One, if you have a sibling they will not allow that sibling to get in, the other way is that they wont endorse you to apply to colleges of your choice.
That's crazy. Do you have a source for that? I don't doubt you, I'm just curious about it.
Yes have had extended family members and one colleague experience this. No link or source. Talking elite boarding schools ones that attract many top foreign students and place more than half the class in ivy caliber schools. No extortion, no pressure, its just known.
The forced donation thing is essentially a way to not pay tax on school fees, because it looks like a charitable donation for the parents, ie tax deductible. The money is just as good to the school either way.
stoptothink
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by stoptothink »

bluebolt wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 6:22 am
stoptothink wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:41 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:28 pm I wasn’t talking genetics, but since you are, the report states that 49% of traits are hereditary. Am I missing something about your argument?
That is a VERY well known study (obviously, it is in Nature) and I have no idea how it is relevant to what you said. Not saying Bluebolt is necessarily wrong, but as someone who designs studies for a living, my initial thought is I'd love to hear an objective method of collecting generalizable evidence on the subject at all. Anecdotally, I'm totally with you on this one.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm assuming your study design doesn't come with a background in genetics or biology.
FWIW, I have publications in Journal of Cell Biology and PLOS Biology. I work in a field where I've got to be a part of pharmacokinetic, proteomic, microbiology, analytical chemistry, cellular biology, molecular biology (docking), and human clinicals although my formal education is in exercise physiology. I wouldn't consider myself a genetics expert by any stretch, but I'm a tad more familiar with in vivo, in vitro, and in silico methods of biological investigation than the layman; at least my CV says so.

So, do you want to explain how the study you linked was relevant to what Bacchus said or provide anything else since you declared studies suggest they were wrong?
SQRT
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by SQRT »

GCD wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:36 pm
RickBoglehead wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:21 pm I was referring to high school students driving BMWs and other cars that IMO a high school student should not have access to.
So how does this work if the family car is a BMW?

The inherent problem with being high wealth is your kids will inevitably live a high net worth lifestyle. In the long run, that will work out however it does because you can't really force the kid to go live in a 2 bedroom apartment somewhere while they are still a kid. Never eat out at nice places and only take the kid to McDonalds? How do you separate your kid from your lifestyle?

It seems silly to expect that a family with a BMW and a Mercedes should go out and buy a Camry just to make the kid drive something "normal". Presumably the kid grew up being driven around by his parents in a BMW. Which is worse, making the kid drive mom's car to school (which is a BMW), or buying the kid his own car (of any type)?
Why is it always a BMW? I drive one. My wife drives one. Bought my daughter one. Heck even my Xwife drives one. All of us are pretty normal(well maybe not the X). Do people here really think that driving a BMW automatically will make the driver an entitled arrogant jerk?
coachd50
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by coachd50 »

beyou wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 6:35 am All depends on your specific options in your area, whih is hard for others to judge/analyze.

In our case, after some frustration with our public schools at the elementary level, we looked around, and despite some decent private options, did not feel it was necessarily better. And from talking to parents of older HS kids, turned out our HS had much more to offer than most private HS in our area. So we toughed it out in elementary at our local publics, and the kids had a great experience in HS. Money saved paid for top colleges to which they were admitted (despite public school secondary education). Bot were able to compete at the highest levels in college, with the public school prep they received. But we do live in a very high property tax area where people move for the school district. Despite the reputation, it did warrant analysis if it was right for our kids, and it was.
I think many of the posts here are making generalized statements that don't take into account individual differences in desire, situation, etc. It is good to see a post here that does.

To the Original Poster-- As someone who attended a Private (parochial) school through 12th grade and now works at a 80%-85% ( actually should be higher, as we have a number of parents who don't bother to fill out the forms, but also don't bother to ever pay a lunch bill because they know nothing will happen to them) free and reduced lunch elementary school in the south the biggest thing you need to realize is IT DEPENDS.

You mentioned the disruptive children, and I am assuming they weren't disciplined to your satisfaction? If that is a problem for you, then the private school option may be what you are looking for. Public schools are often handcuffed in what they can do, particularly at the elementary levels. It is sad, but the process to get disruptive students placed in an alternative setting moves at a glacial pace. Also, at public schools, the school may encounter a great deal more "oh well, what are you gonna do about it" from a number of parents.

-- 7 year old is causing a ruckus and running around the class room because you started ADHD meds and then quit giving to him? Oh well, parent can't come pick him up for whatever reason. "What are you gonna do".
-- Had a teacher tell me about a kindergartner year old ask two other kinder students who playing in the "kitchen center" "Are you two F'in" (but he used the actual word). Not much can be done about this with regards to discipline.

Private schools can eliminate those types of situation much more easily.

As far as other factors mentioned in the thread, curriculum, academics, networking etc, those things are going to depend on situations.
Find the best fit for your kids and yourself.
Hulu
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Hulu »

I feel like whichever system teaches your children the values you care about. And each kid may have different opportunities. Pros of public for my values:

some types of inclusion, $ savings, diversity, humility, less externally competitive, child can more easily stick out, compassionate

cons: distractions, potential inability to resolve distractions, potential teacher issues, inflexibility, potential building ventilation issues, little emotional skill building

Private school: flexible, high achievement, better pursuit of interests, less distractions, networking

Cons: entitlement, externally competitive, little emotional skill building

For our kids we’re doing a “public school unless private is demonstrably better” policy
JackoC
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by JackoC »

SQRT wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 10:37 am
GCD wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:36 pm
RickBoglehead wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:21 pm I was referring to high school students driving BMWs and other cars that IMO a high school student should not have access to.
So how does this work if the family car is a BMW?

The inherent problem with being high wealth is your kids will inevitably live a high net worth lifestyle. In the long run, that will work out however it does because you can't really force the kid to go live in a 2 bedroom apartment somewhere while they are still a kid. Never eat out at nice places and only take the kid to McDonalds? How do you separate your kid from your lifestyle?

It seems silly to expect that a family with a BMW and a Mercedes should go out and buy a Camry just to make the kid drive something "normal". Presumably the kid grew up being driven around by his parents in a BMW. Which is worse, making the kid drive mom's car to school (which is a BMW), or buying the kid his own car (of any type)?
Why is it always a BMW? I drive one. My wife drives one. Bought my daughter one. Heck even my Xwife drives one. All of us are pretty normal(well maybe not the X). Do people here really think that driving a BMW automatically will make the driver an entitled arrogant jerk?
Also a BMW driver, this amuses me also. I do see the underlying issue of ending up with 'entitled' kids but like any such thing, it's way more complicated than a brand of car. We live in an urban area and our 'millennial' (or whatever's after that) kids did not (want to) get their licenses the second they were eligible like everyone did when I was a kid in the 'burbs (rich 'burb where our family was below average). Nor did we have the BMW's when our kids were in HS anyway, but still the bottom line was none had a car or drove the family car in HS. We bought them each used cars in their college years, but in retrospect (though fortunately nothing terrible happened) I agree with TomatoTomahto's point about how you'd feel as parent if your kid was injured or worse in an accident a fairly big and latest/safest car might have mitigated or avoided. At a later point in their 20's I had them get rid of smaller older cars, one now drives a big SUV we used to own, another a new midsized SUV with all latest/greatest safety features, the other can use of our BMW's (the 2015) when they want to (I'm a little possessive about the newer one). But they're way past HS now.

One other thing not related to cars to throw out if not mentioned yet. The SAT's new 'adversity score' is probably something to study for parents with kids coming up on HS. It might change the relative attractiveness of both private school or high property value 'good school' districts if your kid's SAT score gets dinged because of it. Not trying to debate this policy, just saying parents may want to learn more about it and consider the possible implications in choosing the optimal neighborhood or school.
Bacchus01
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Bacchus01 »

SQRT wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 10:37 am
GCD wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:36 pm
RickBoglehead wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:21 pm I was referring to high school students driving BMWs and other cars that IMO a high school student should not have access to.
So how does this work if the family car is a BMW?

The inherent problem with being high wealth is your kids will inevitably live a high net worth lifestyle. In the long run, that will work out however it does because you can't really force the kid to go live in a 2 bedroom apartment somewhere while they are still a kid. Never eat out at nice places and only take the kid to McDonalds? How do you separate your kid from your lifestyle?

It seems silly to expect that a family with a BMW and a Mercedes should go out and buy a Camry just to make the kid drive something "normal". Presumably the kid grew up being driven around by his parents in a BMW. Which is worse, making the kid drive mom's car to school (which is a BMW), or buying the kid his own car (of any type)?
Why is it always a BMW? I drive one. My wife drives one. Bought my daughter one. Heck even my Xwife drives one. All of us are pretty normal(well maybe not the X). Do people here really think that driving a BMW automatically will make the driver an entitled arrogant jerk?
I don’t think BMW makes someone a jerk.

I think handing a 16 year old a luxury sedan is not a great message. But that’s my opinion. To each their own. My son complains about the low mileage Hyundai we got him a little bit. We’ve told him that when he graduates college and gets a real job, he can have any car he wants.
SQRT
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by SQRT »

Bacchus01 wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 12:33 pm
SQRT wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 10:37 am
GCD wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:36 pm
RickBoglehead wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:21 pm I was referring to high school students driving BMWs and other cars that IMO a high school student should not have access to.
So how does this work if the family car is a BMW?

The inherent problem with being high wealth is your kids will inevitably live a high net worth lifestyle. In the long run, that will work out however it does because you can't really force the kid to go live in a 2 bedroom apartment somewhere while they are still a kid. Never eat out at nice places and only take the kid to McDonalds? How do you separate your kid from your lifestyle?

It seems silly to expect that a family with a BMW and a Mercedes should go out and buy a Camry just to make the kid drive something "normal". Presumably the kid grew up being driven around by his parents in a BMW. Which is worse, making the kid drive mom's car to school (which is a BMW), or buying the kid his own car (of any type)?
Why is it always a BMW? I drive one. My wife drives one. Bought my daughter one. Heck even my Xwife drives one. All of us are pretty normal(well maybe not the X). Do people here really think that driving a BMW automatically will make the driver an entitled arrogant jerk?
I don’t think BMW makes someone a jerk.

I think handing a 16 year old a luxury sedan is not a great message. But that’s my opinion. To each their own. My son complains about the low mileage Hyundai we got him a little bit. We’ve told him that when he graduates college and gets a real job, he can have any car he wants.
Agree. Didn’t get the daughter one until she was successfully completing university. She is a successful professional now. Hard working, intelligent,sensitive. Haven’t seen any sense of entitlement. Depends on the kid/parents and lots of other things. But not the make of car.
bluebolt
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by bluebolt »

stoptothink wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 10:04 am
bluebolt wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 6:22 am
stoptothink wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:41 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:28 pm I wasn’t talking genetics, but since you are, the report states that 49% of traits are hereditary. Am I missing something about your argument?
That is a VERY well known study (obviously, it is in Nature) and I have no idea how it is relevant to what you said. Not saying Bluebolt is necessarily wrong, but as someone who designs studies for a living, my initial thought is I'd love to hear an objective method of collecting generalizable evidence on the subject at all. Anecdotally, I'm totally with you on this one.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm assuming your study design doesn't come with a background in genetics or biology.
FWIW, I have publications in Journal of Cell Biology and PLOS Biology. I work in a field where I've got to be a part of pharmacokinetic, proteomic, microbiology, analytical chemistry, cellular biology, molecular biology (docking), and human clinicals although my formal education is in exercise physiology. I wouldn't consider myself a genetics expert by any stretch, but I'm a tad more familiar with in vivo, in vitro, and in silico methods of biological investigation than the layman; at least my CV says so.

So, do you want to explain how the study you linked was relevant to what Bacchus said or provide anything else since you declared studies suggest they were wrong?
Here's a quote from the study:
"Our results provide compelling evidence that all human traits are heritable: not one trait had a weighted heritability estimate of zero."

and this from the abstract:
"The data are inconsistent with substantial influences from shared environment or non-additive genetic variation."

In terms of objective methods for determining that, there are well known methods using twin studies and other relative studies to determine heritability.
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ram
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by ram »

Private. (You said money is not an issue.) The way I would look at it is to send the kids to the best available school. Public or private is inconsequential under the circumstances.
This is from someone whose kids attended public school. My daughter was the state topper in high school and son had a perfect ACT score. But the only public high school in our rural community is consistently in the top 5 schools in the state and sometimes the top school. The only private school is much lower in ranking and parents send kids there for the religious education.
Ram
stoptothink
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by stoptothink »

bluebolt wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 1:45 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 10:04 am
bluebolt wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 6:22 am
stoptothink wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:41 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:28 pm I wasn’t talking genetics, but since you are, the report states that 49% of traits are hereditary. Am I missing something about your argument?
That is a VERY well known study (obviously, it is in Nature) and I have no idea how it is relevant to what you said. Not saying Bluebolt is necessarily wrong, but as someone who designs studies for a living, my initial thought is I'd love to hear an objective method of collecting generalizable evidence on the subject at all. Anecdotally, I'm totally with you on this one.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm assuming your study design doesn't come with a background in genetics or biology.
FWIW, I have publications in Journal of Cell Biology and PLOS Biology. I work in a field where I've got to be a part of pharmacokinetic, proteomic, microbiology, analytical chemistry, cellular biology, molecular biology (docking), and human clinicals although my formal education is in exercise physiology. I wouldn't consider myself a genetics expert by any stretch, but I'm a tad more familiar with in vivo, in vitro, and in silico methods of biological investigation than the layman; at least my CV says so.

So, do you want to explain how the study you linked was relevant to what Bacchus said or provide anything else since you declared studies suggest they were wrong?
Here's a quote from the study:
"Our results provide compelling evidence that all human traits are heritable: not one trait had a weighted heritability estimate of zero."

and this from the abstract:
"The data are inconsistent with substantial influences from shared environment or non-additive genetic variation."

In terms of objective methods for determining that, there are well known methods using twin studies and other relative studies to determine heritability.
You are still totally missing the point, the heritable human traits that were being evaluated in all the studies analyzed for that meta are not what Bacchus was talking about.

"Investigated traits were manually classified using the chapter and subchapter levels of the International Classification of Functioning, Disability and Health (ICF) or the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD-10)."

They were analyzing risk for disabilities, chronic disease, and other health problems. It is an investigation of nature vs. nurture in regards to physical and psychological health outcomes. Correct me if I am wrong, but this thread (and Bacchus' comment) is about educational and career success. That is a totally different topic of discussion.

There is some related research out there (ie. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41539-018-0023-z and https://www.nature.com/articles/s41539-018-0019-8 and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29911926), but it is hardly conclusive of anything.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by mlebuf »

Speaking as a retired professor my belief is that education money is best spent on a great K-12 education. Most parents send their kids to a convenient school for K-12 and then save to pay for an expensive college. The kids who get a great K-12 education will likely do very well in college and later in life regardless of where they get their higher education. Great buildings and great minds are built on a strong foundation.

If money is not an issue, I would opt for a great private school, with a track record of turning out high achievers in life. Keep in mind that not all private schools are created equally. To be sure, there are many great public and parochial schools out there too. When I taught at the University of New Orleans, I taught a good number of young women who graduated from Mt. Carmel Academy - a New Orleans girl's parochial school. All were excellent students. In New Orleans, the private school of high achieving grads is Isadore Newman. Out here it's Phoenix Country Day School. Both are expensive but both turn out great grads. Two boys who live across the street went to PCDS. One is going to be a junior in college. He told me that college is easier than PCDS was. The other is about to graduate from high school and will be off to college in the fall. When he was 13 he hated how hard school was. I told him, "It's the best job you'll ever hate." Another friend's son is a PCDS grad. His father and grandfather went to LSU and he was bound and determined to go there. He got a full scholarship to LSU, just completed his sophomore year and is making almost all A's.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by coachd50 »

mlebuf wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 4:23 pm Speaking as a retired professor my belief is that education money is best spent on a great K-12 education. Most parents send their kids to a convenient school for K-12 and then save to pay for an expensive college. The kids who get a great K-12 education will likely do very well in college and later in life regardless of where they get their higher education. Great buildings and great minds are built on a strong foundation.

If money is not an issue, I would opt for a great private school, with a track record of turning out high achievers in life. Keep in mind that not all private schools are created equally. To be sure, there are many great public and parochial schools out there too. When I taught at the University of New Orleans, I taught a good number of young women who graduated from Mt. Carmel Academy - a New Orleans girl's parochial school. All were excellent students. In New Orleans, the private school of high achieving grads is Isadore Newman. Out here it's Phoenix Country Day School. Both are expensive but both turn out great grads. Two boys who live across the street went to PCDS. One is going to be a junior in college. He told me that college is easier than PCDS was. The other is about to graduate from high school and will be off to college in the fall. When he was 13 he hated how hard school was. I told him, "It's the best job you'll ever hate." Another friend's son is a PCDS grad. His father and grandfather went to LSU and he was bound and determined to go there. He got a full scholarship to LSU, just completed his sophomore year and is making almost all A's.
Excellent points. Being a Privateer Alum (3 degrees from UNO) that K-12 is probably much more foundational in nature. I know several Newman grads who are basically fumbling through life and surviving just because of family money. Just a side note, I wouldn't say it is definitely the "private school of high achieving grads" over Jesuit, Sacred Heart, etc. Just that its students come from a statistically higher net worth than others.

I would say though that in this case, I don't think the public schools the OP is discussing are similar to that in Orleans or Jefferson Parish, and the public/private decision is not the same as sending your kid to Cohen (pre Katrina) or Sending them to Jesuit.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by IowaFarmWife »

I'm going to add a third option: if you wife is a SAHM, cans she homeschool?
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by mlebuf »

Coachd50 makes some excellent points. How someone does in college and life depends on a lot of other factors as much or more than where they go to school. Thinking back, when I was an undergrad at LSU, I knew a guy who graduated from Newman and flunked out in his freshman year. It doesn't matter where one goes to high school if he/she doesn't do the work. That same guy went on to become an attorney and later spent time in prison. :oops: At the same time, consider that former Remington owner, Victor Kiam, bestselling author Michael Lewis, Archie Manning's sons, Cooper, Peyton and Eli all went to Newman. I remember reading that Eli scored extremely high on the NFL intelligence test when he was a rookie.

On, New Year's night of 2017, I got an email from Kevin, a former MBA student I taught in the '80's at UNO. He told me that he was working for Oracle, (a FORTUNE 100 company) lived in Redwood City, CA and went to China about once a month. I checked out the Oracle website and learned that he is a Sr. VP and began their China Initiative. His undergrad degree is from LSU in Criminal Justice. He majored in Criminal Justice because he wanted to be an FBI agent and go to LSU law school but ran out of money. He came to UNO to get an MBA so he would have some marketable skills. It seems to have worked out rather well for him. :moneybag

Kevin's office is about a 15-minute drive from the Stanford campus. I'm sure that Oracle hires a lot of their grads and some likely report to him.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Glasgow »

Bacchus01 wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 11:01 am
Parenting is 50% of the equation. 40% is the child. 10% is the school.
We debated whether we sent our elder son to private or public. We chose the later. The demographic and environment is quite good, but his academic achievement is mediocre (B and above in all class except math although he mostly get A or B on quiz and exam but not turning in, late homework and low score on team works causing him getting a D, and biology in which he's found he doesn't like and care for it, so a D goes with it. He loves screen time (YouTube channels on gaming with commentary), but we've limited him as much as we can.It'd be helpful if you can elaborate on parenting part in improve the situation or his motivation and grade overall.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Bacchus01 »

Glasgow wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 7:05 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 11:01 am
Parenting is 50% of the equation. 40% is the child. 10% is the school.
We debated whether we sent our elder son to private or public. We chose the later. The demographic and environment is quite good, but his academic achievement is mediocre (B and above in all class except math although he mostly get A or B on quiz and exam but not turning in, late homework and low score on team works causing him getting a D, and biology in which he's found he doesn't like and care for it, so a D goes with it. He loves screen time (YouTube channels on gaming with commentary), but we've limited him as much as we can.It'd be helpful if you can elaborate on parenting part in improve the situation or his motivation and grade overall.
I would suggest it started long before high school.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by staythecourse »

Bacchus01 wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 7:22 pm
Glasgow wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 7:05 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 11:01 am
Parenting is 50% of the equation. 40% is the child. 10% is the school.
We debated whether we sent our elder son to private or public. We chose the later. The demographic and environment is quite good, but his academic achievement is mediocre (B and above in all class except math although he mostly get A or B on quiz and exam but not turning in, late homework and low score on team works causing him getting a D, and biology in which he's found he doesn't like and care for it, so a D goes with it. He loves screen time (YouTube channels on gaming with commentary), but we've limited him as much as we can.It'd be helpful if you can elaborate on parenting part in improve the situation or his motivation and grade overall.
I would suggest it started long before high school.
I would agree with the little experience of seeing the mind of children play out with our young kids. Whatever patterns they learn happen YEARS before you notice them. By the time you see the end results it is very difficult to UNlearn those poor behaviors. I am sure it is like a snowball once it gets rolling downhill hit only gets bigger and faster AND harder to push back up the hill.

I'm a bit biased, but I can point to video games as one aspect of me not achieving my perceived full potential. I've already talked to the wife and will NEVER have a gaming system in the house. We live in a metro city and surprising it isn't that popular as it is for our suburban counterpart's kids.

Good luck.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Starfish »

I find amazing that people judge the value of a school by arts and sports programs. Nobody seems to say: that school is good, it teaches kids a lot of math, physics, chemistry or biology. That school got gold in math Olympics.
Really, sports?

The most important thing in a school is to select and separate kids based on ability and intellectual levels and to promote some kind of competition. Most schools in US don't do this, private or public.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by stoptothink »

Starfish wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 7:59 pm
The most important thing in a school is to select and separate kids based on ability and intellectual levels and to promote some kind of competition. Most schools in US don't do this, private or public.
Without getting this thread shut down, you know that this will never happen in the U.S.(and yes, I agree with you).
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by GCD »

Starfish wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 7:59 pm I find amazing that people judge the value of a school by arts and sports programs. Nobody seems to say: that school is good, it teaches kids a lot of math, physics, chemistry or biology. That school got gold in math Olympics.
Really, sports?
Ha Ha. Yeah, no kidding. I once lived in Rapid City, SD. South Dakota is split in half by the Missouri river and there is a ridiculous E/W rivalry in the state, as if there's more difference between E and W South Dakota than there is between them and some civilized place. In any event, the Eastern part of the state has about twice the population of the West. Unsurprisingly, athletic teams from the East regularly beat teams from the West. Which figures given they have more kids to draw from. A guy actually ran and won a seat on the school board in Rapid City with his sole platform being "to get to the bottom of why East river teams always beat West river teams. There's absolutely no reason why this situation should continue." Yeah, that was the winning platform to the voters in that town.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by GCD »

Glasgow wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 7:05 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 11:01 am
Parenting is 50% of the equation. 40% is the child. 10% is the school.
It'd be helpful if you can elaborate on parenting part in improve the situation or his motivation and grade overall.
This board is, IMO, notoriously bad at giving parenting advice except for kids that have to choose between Harvard or MIT. There's so much that goes into your child's dynamic that trying to psychoanalyze it borders on giving medical advice.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by stoptothink »

GCD wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 8:27 pm
Glasgow wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 7:05 pm
Bacchus01 wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 11:01 am
Parenting is 50% of the equation. 40% is the child. 10% is the school.
It'd be helpful if you can elaborate on parenting part in improve the situation or his motivation and grade overall.
This board is, IMO, notoriously bad at giving parenting advice except for kids that have to choose between Harvard or MIT. There's so much that goes into your child's dynamic that trying to psychoanalyze it borders on giving medical advice.
Wait, there are posters here who have children who won't be choosing between Harvard and MIT?
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Pomegranate »

notsobright wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 4:18 am

The schools have recently been rezoned, going from 10% free lunch to 50% free lunch.
Lol what :D It depends on your goals - if you want your kids to pick up some survival and anti-bulling skills, go ahead with a public 50% free lunch school 8-)
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Bacchus01 »

Starfish wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 7:59 pm I find amazing that people judge the value of a school by arts and sports programs. Nobody seems to say: that school is good, it teaches kids a lot of math, physics, chemistry or biology. That school got gold in math Olympics.
Really, sports?

The most important thing in a school is to select and separate kids based on ability and intellectual levels and to promote some kind of competition. Most schools in US don't do this, private or public.
While I generally agree with your statement about lack of emphasis sometimes on academics, Sports can be a very important part of development for kids. I'm a huge believer in it, not because I think my kids are going to get some scholarship money, but sports can be a platform to teach kids to take direction from others, work hard, be competitive, be team-oriented, know what it feels like to win AND lose, perform in front of others, take criticism...oh, and develop physical experiences that are healthy and may drive healthier living long term. My kids have had some great coaches and some terrible coaches. When they complain, I tell them that they can learn as much from a bad coach about what not to do as a good coach on what to do. I give the same advice to young professionals, you can learn as much from a bad boss as a good boss. My experience is that, like sports, one or both of you will be moving on within a year, so power through it and learn.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Starfish wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 7:59 pm I find amazing that people judge the value of a school by arts and sports programs. Nobody seems to say: that school is good, it teaches kids a lot of math, physics, chemistry or biology. That school got gold in math Olympics.
Really, sports?

The most important thing in a school is to select and separate kids based on ability and intellectual levels and to promote some kind of competition. Most schools in US don't do this, private or public.
I have to disagree.
“The most important thing in a school is to select and separate kids based on ability and intellectual levels”. I’ve described above the damage done when one tracks kids prematurely or without re-evaluation. Are you suggesting that an administrator decides which kids get dummy math and which kids get real math? Forever?

We need more arts, not less. One of my kids is absolutely hopeless artistically. He could have used more, non-competitive, arts training. He will never be able to draw much more than stick figures, but there is much art in the world to appreciate. We supplemented at home.

I believe that college athletics are not helpful, overall. However, sports can be a great way to develop character in youngsters. My kids benefited from their ice hockey years, and I wish that the US game were more like the Olympic or European game, emphasizing skating, hands, and ice sense above raw physicality. My kids had to stop playing when the checking became dangerous (one of them had a very serious concussion in HS). Still, on balance, it was good for them.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by rashad3000 »

With good parenting, your children will be fine, whether they go to $100,000/year private schools or title 1 public schools.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Starfish »

Bacchus01 wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 7:26 am
Starfish wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 7:59 pm I find amazing that people judge the value of a school by arts and sports programs. Nobody seems to say: that school is good, it teaches kids a lot of math, physics, chemistry or biology. That school got gold in math Olympics.
Really, sports?

The most important thing in a school is to select and separate kids based on ability and intellectual levels and to promote some kind of competition. Most schools in US don't do this, private or public.
While I generally agree with your statement about lack of emphasis sometimes on academics, Sports can be a very important part of development for kids. I'm a huge believer in it, not because I think my kids are going to get some scholarship money, but sports can be a platform to teach kids to take direction from others, work hard, be competitive, be team-oriented, know what it feels like to win AND lose, perform in front of others, take criticism...oh, and develop physical experiences that are healthy and may drive healthier living long term. My kids have had some great coaches and some terrible coaches. When they complain, I tell them that they can learn as much from a bad coach about what not to do as a good coach on what to do. I give the same advice to young professionals, you can learn as much from a bad boss as a good boss. My experience is that, like sports, one or both of you will be moving on within a year, so power through it and learn.
Nowhere in the Western world sports have much importance in a kids life (I am talking about competitive sports, not sports as a hobby) maybe except some parts of UK society and Australia. Are you saying for example that Germans cannot take directions or do not work hard? What about Chinese? Japanese?

Also I don't think is anything healthy about competitive sports.
I have nothing against sports, but I don not thing they should be a major (or even secondary) criterion in choosing a school.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by GCD »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 7:44 am
Starfish wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 7:59 pm The most important thing in a school is to select and separate kids based on ability and intellectual levels and to promote some kind of competition. Most schools in US don't do this, private or public.
I have to disagree.
“The most important thing in a school is to select and separate kids based on ability and intellectual levels”. I’ve described above the damage done when one tracks kids prematurely or without re-evaluation. Are you suggesting that an administrator decides which kids get dummy math and which kids get real math? Forever?
I'm not an expert on European education, but I've read a half dozen articles on it and the way they track kids into different programs at a young age seems really Orwellian. Just horrible, controlling and overbearing in an arrogant paternalistic kind of way. One of the things that American education has going for it is the way a low performer has multiple opportunities to reinvent themselves. Americans waste talent by failing to nurture gifted children and Europeans waste talent by locking people into tracks at a young age. Pick your poison I guess.

In HS I had a 1.7 GPA due largely to undiagnosed ADHD. Eventually I earned a BA, MA, JD and did a year in a PhD program after retirement. I shudder to think how my life would have turned out had I been tracked based on my HS GPA. The way American community colleges serve as a safety net for kids to get a fresh start after HS is also a good thing. I don't know if that mechanism exists in Europe.

On the other hand, the US spends an awful lot of money providing remedial training to low performers. Often this comes at the expense of gifted kids. I can say from personal experience that gifted kids thrive in certain environments and are crushed in others. I went to Avery Coonley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avery_Coonley_School from 1st - 4th grade. I thrived there, but my parents put me in public school from 5th grade on. Despite the local public school being "highly ranked", it was nothing compared to Avery Coonley. In public school I started a miserable spiral that eventually culminated in that 1.7 high school GPA.

Although the US education system could do a better job with gifted kids, I think the endless opportunity to reinvent yourself makes the US system better. Of course I'm biased having grown up here.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Starfish »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 7:44 am
Starfish wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 7:59 pm I find amazing that people judge the value of a school by arts and sports programs. Nobody seems to say: that school is good, it teaches kids a lot of math, physics, chemistry or biology. That school got gold in math Olympics.
Really, sports?

The most important thing in a school is to select and separate kids based on ability and intellectual levels and to promote some kind of competition. Most schools in US don't do this, private or public.
I have to disagree.
“The most important thing in a school is to select and separate kids based on ability and intellectual levels”. I’ve described above the damage done when one tracks kids prematurely or without re-evaluation. Are you suggesting that an administrator decides which kids get dummy math and which kids get real math? Forever?
Any system will put at disadvantage some kids but it's a matter of numbers.
I didn't say anything about "administrators" (can be an automatic selection, top X of an exam, multiple exams, grades etc) or about "forever". It does not have to be irreversible. But from my experience and my friends experience I find that selection in HS at least is very important.
We need more arts, not less. One of my kids is absolutely hopeless artistically. He could have used more, non-competitive, arts training. He will never be able to draw much more than stick figures, but there is much art in the world to appreciate. We supplemented at home.
I am horrible at drawing and singing, I have very little training (I hated drawing classes in school and skipped music every time I could) and I still spend 6 hours in a museum every time I have the change or I go to concerts and I listen to music several hours a day.
It's just a hobby.
Yes, art is part of a general education but fail to see how it's an crucial part for people who are not gifted and will not follow careers in specific industries (most of them).
At the same time I find that most kids didn't read many books although literature is one of the arts.


My general experience in tech industry is that there are very few Americans, and I believe this is a direct consequence of the educational system and not to the industry being oversized comparing with the population of the country. A lot of people just slip through the cracks and don't realize their potential. When they get to college is way too late.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by bluebolt »

GCD wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 11:36 am I'm not an expert on European education, but I've read a half dozen articles on it and the way they track kids into different programs at a young age seems really Orwellian. Just horrible, controlling and overbearing in an arrogant paternalistic kind of way. One of the things that American education has going for it is the way a low performer has multiple opportunities to reinvent themselves. Americans waste talent by failing to nurture gifted children and Europeans waste talent by locking people into tracks at a young age. Pick your poison I guess.
The flipside is that many Europeans would say that the US is wasting a lot of resources on expensive college degrees for those who won't benefit from them or need them in their career.

I'm not saying that the European system is better, just that there are significant costs to the US one.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by Starfish »

GCD wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 11:36 am
TomatoTomahto wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 7:44 am
Starfish wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 7:59 pm The most important thing in a school is to select and separate kids based on ability and intellectual levels and to promote some kind of competition. Most schools in US don't do this, private or public.
I have to disagree.
“The most important thing in a school is to select and separate kids based on ability and intellectual levels”. I’ve described above the damage done when one tracks kids prematurely or without re-evaluation. Are you suggesting that an administrator decides which kids get dummy math and which kids get real math? Forever?
I'm not an expert on European education, but I've read a half dozen articles on it and the way they track kids into different programs at a young age seems really Orwellian. Just horrible, controlling and overbearing in an arrogant paternalistic kind of way. One of the things that American education has going for it is the way a low performer has multiple opportunities to reinvent themselves. Americans waste talent by failing to nurture gifted children and Europeans waste talent by locking people into tracks at a young age. Pick your poison I guess.
Ask a gifted kid from Europe to describe their experience in school and any american kid.
One will tell (typically) that the school was the happiest part of their life, the other will tell you about bulling and frustration.
It doesn't really match with the "horrible, controlling, paternalistic" view.

GCD wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 11:36 am
In HS I had a 1.7 GPA due largely to undiagnosed ADHD. Eventually I earned a BA, MA, JD and did a year in a PhD program after retirement. I shudder to think how my life would have turned out had I been tracked based on my HS GPA. The way American community colleges serve as a safety net for kids to get a fresh start after HS is also a good thing. I don't know if that mechanism exists in Europe.
In the system I grew up was really no back up and I don't think this was a good thing.
But excessive back up also doesn't make sense. At some point you have t realize that a kid cannot catch up on some things. You cannot do remedial math at engineering level in a semester or two when it really takes a lifetime to learn math.

The reason why the system needs so much backup is exactly the view that kids are not to be tracked, they are free to do what they want, chose their courses etc. Of course kids screw up. And this from the country who thinks you cannot drink a beer up to 21 :D
Last edited by Starfish on Mon May 20, 2019 12:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by SkierMom »

Beware of the Great School Ratings! The website itself is funded by an education admin association (with ties to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, i.e. Common Core fiasco). They don't like bad reviews, or in my opinion, honest reviews of schools and principals do not get past the Great Schools website censors. I've gotten several parent reviews deleted and several that are in terminal "review" by the site and are never posted.

If you are basing your desire to go private on posted test scores alone, you are also mistaken. California qualifies an 11th grade "Meeting Standards" SBAC state-test result as fulfilling college readiness; this is hardly the case or if by "readiness for college" you mean a community college.

You don't seem to be asking the right questions for the private school. I would investigate the pedagogy of the private school you are looking at. Do they follow Common Core, or do they establish their own standards? Do they practice Inquiry- or Discovery-based math? Is the elementary math program Saxon math or a Singapore model, or do they follow the Everyday Math curriculum (also know to parents as "Every Night Math") Disaster for kids wanting to go into STEM degrees. For your young kids, do they follow systematic phonics reading and writing instruction or are they stuck in Whole Language or "Balanced Literacy"? Do they have these open-ended month long "Project Based" learning modules - a disaster for my very logic, math excelling daughter. Personally, I could care less if teachers are doing PD-Professional Development, in fact I wouldn't want my kids' teachers to do PD - they are often run by slick sales staff selling the latest in education-fads to unwitting teachers. I would also rather have my kids math teacher with a degree in mathematics with or without a teaching credential (private school, non-union) versus having an art degree but "certified" via state credentialing to teach middle school math (that happens).

We had our kids in private school for two years, before finally figuring out that other than the low student ratio and great sports teams, there was little difference to the crappy public school we pulled them from. We now do a hybrid approach, which is actually gaining in popularity.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Let’s not assume that European educations are a single thing, any more than that an American education is a single thing.

Tracking might reduce expenses, but at what cost?
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by HomerJ »

notsobright wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 4:18 amMoney isn’t an issue (sold a business). And we love our house and location so moving is out of the question.
Go private then if it's a better school. Pretty easy question. If money is no object, and you don't want to move, send your kids to better private school (assuming it's better).

Normally, I would suggest buying a house in the best public school district.

It's usually the smarter answer, financially. You get a very good school, and when you sell the house 15 years later (after the kids are grown), you get most/all/more of your money back. Money on private school is 100% gone. You don't get any of that back.

If a good public school district is available, you can save hundreds of thousands of dollars.

But if you have millions of dollars, and money is not a concern in your life at all, and you don't want to move, then private school looks like the easy answer.
A Goldman Sachs associate provided a variety of detailed explanations, but then offered a caveat, “If I’m being dead-### honest, though, nobody knows what’s really going on.”
GCD
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by GCD »

Starfish wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 11:58 am
GCD wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 11:36 am I'm not an expert on European education, but I've read a half dozen articles on it and the way they track kids into different programs at a young age seems really Orwellian. Just horrible, controlling and overbearing in an arrogant paternalistic kind of way.
Ask a gifted kid from Europe to describe their experience in school and any american kid.
One will tell (typically) that the school was the happiest part of their life, the other will tell you about bulling and frustration.
It doesn't really match with the "horrible, controlling, paternalistic" view.
The horrible, controlling, paternalistic comment was aimed at the educators who presume to know what is best for a kid. It wasn't aimed at the day-to-day experience of the kid in school. Perhaps it is an American trait, but I am quick to reject dictatorial power in authority figures. Especially outside of the hard sciences. If an engineer tells me that something needs to be done to build a safe bridge, I go along with it and defer to his expertise. However, after many years of higher education and life experience with my own kids as well, I am beyond skeptical that education professionals actually have something one could call expertise. No offense to the professional educators on BH who I am sure are in the upper 1% of education professionals. :wink:
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HomerJ
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Re: High net worth, elite private or “good” public

Post by HomerJ »

GCD wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:36 pmIt seems silly to expect that a family with a BMW and a Mercedes should go out and buy a Camry just to make the kid drive something "normal".
Heh, that seems like EXACTLY the correct thing to do, not "silly".
Presumably the kid grew up being driven around by his parents in a BMW. Which is worse, making the kid drive mom's car to school (which is a BMW), or buying the kid his own car (of any type)?
If a kid is driving mom's car to school every day, it's no longer "mom's" car.

Get your kid a used beater, and they'll appreciate nicer cars later.

Start your kid with a nice BMW to start, and that becomes their base. It doesn't matter what you drive. It's what they drive that sets their base.

If your kid is sure to get a $100,000 job out of college, then it's fine that you've set her up to buy expensive cars her whole life.

If your kid is going to make less at first, they're probably going to have to drive something "normal" when young and work up to BMW, just like you did.

It really does build character, as silly as that sounds. There is real pride is EARNING better homes, better vehicles, better vacations on your own, not having them handed to you by your parents.

This is just my opinion, of course. I could certainly be wrong.
Last edited by HomerJ on Mon May 20, 2019 1:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
A Goldman Sachs associate provided a variety of detailed explanations, but then offered a caveat, “If I’m being dead-### honest, though, nobody knows what’s really going on.”
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