Churning Credit Cards

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TexMexIndex
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Churning Credit Cards

Post by TexMexIndex » Fri May 17, 2019 4:55 pm

For those who spend time chasing new credit cards for rewards, do you find it worth the time for you? Where would one start looking on how to analyze and go about doing this?

mighty72
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by mighty72 » Fri May 17, 2019 4:58 pm

I don't do it. The best place to look would be https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/
Also, a long topic What's Your Credit Card Rewards Strategy?

boogiehead
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by boogiehead » Fri May 17, 2019 5:11 pm

I think your a bit late to the game as churning is no longer as easy or lucrative (i.e chase 5/24, shutdown of bluebird, etc....) as it used to be as its gotten more "mainstream".... the real winners nowadays are the bloggers who write about it, but I do still believe in strategically applying for credit cards to help subsidize vacations :D

bob60014
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by bob60014 » Fri May 17, 2019 5:17 pm

Add FlyerTalk as a place for indepth discussions.

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credit- ... grams-390/

student
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by student » Fri May 17, 2019 5:18 pm

I only did it one or two times and I do not think it is worth it anymore.

dbr
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by dbr » Fri May 17, 2019 5:21 pm

It's a hobby. If you want a paycheck in $/hr this is probably not where to find it.

CC companies have shut down most of the opportunity that existed a few years ago.

Points/miles once acquired are an art and science to redeem.

I grew up in an airline family and kind of enjoy messing around with some of it, to make money, no.

In addition to blogs, etc., flyertalk.com is a good resource. If you aren't into the frequent flying business there would be even less reason to churn cards.

HawkeyePierce
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by HawkeyePierce » Fri May 17, 2019 5:34 pm

I've churned about 3 million points over the last seven years, so I think I can reasonably consider myself well-versed in this topic.

I agree that the opportunities are not nearly as rich as they used to be, but that doesn't mean there's no value to be had. You can still churn ~200k American Air miles every two years or so. Alaska cards can still be churned. Chase cards are churnable, though on a rather slow cadence.

That said, there's a much steeper learning curve than there used to be. You have to figure out for yourself if the time is worth it. Frankly, I think most people are better served just signing up for the Scott's Cheap Flights mailing list and waiting for a good deal to show up. Unless you're deadset on chasing what are called "aspirational" redemptions, churning is probably not worth it.

If you do want to chase aspirational awards like Lufthansa First Class or Singapore Suites, churning is the only way to get there short of some very deep pockets. If you just want a good deal to Hawaii or Rome, this is not worth your time.

MotoTrojan
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by MotoTrojan » Fri May 17, 2019 5:39 pm

My go to is https://www.doctorofcredit.com/.

Also has bank bonuses. These are taxable which hurts you but that usually won’t impact your credit.

I went on a bender last quarter and netted around $4300 after tax.

Starfish
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by Starfish » Fri May 17, 2019 5:40 pm

TexMexIndex wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 4:55 pm
For those who spend time chasing new credit cards for rewards, do you find it worth the time for you? Where would one start looking on how to analyze and go about doing this?
It's more of a hobby but I don't think is less than 1000$/h in tax free pay. I don't try to optimize anything, so the time investment is minor.

Trader Joe
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by Trader Joe » Fri May 17, 2019 5:41 pm

TexMexIndex wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 4:55 pm
For those who spend time chasing new credit cards for rewards, do you find it worth the time for you? Where would one start looking on how to analyze and go about doing this?
No, it is definitely not worth the time.

lkar
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by lkar » Fri May 17, 2019 5:55 pm

I think it depends on what you're after.

If you're basically looking at points like currency and trying to essentially churn credit cards for the cash value, the various companies have made it hard.

I'm in the points and miles game solely for the big ticket experiences that I would never consider paying cash for. The problem is that these opportunities are getting more and more rare and they take as much time learning the ins and outs of the various points programs as accumulating the points takes.

If you're looking to churn credit cards to redeem points on Southwest airlines, or get a companion pass, or accumulate Alaska points for flights to Seattle, or you like to redeem chase points for 1.25 cents toward travel, it's a slog. If you have the time to put into it and are good with spreasheets and like the hobby aspect of it, that's great. Those things would be too much for me.

I'm a little more specific in my focus at this point. I mostly pay cash at this point for regular travel and save my points for over the top experiences like Park Hyatts or Lufthansa First Class. Churning the Hawaiian airlines credit cards has lost its luster for me at this point.

LawProf
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by LawProf » Fri May 17, 2019 6:18 pm

If you're going to spend $25,000 over the next six months, you could open six different cards, get the bonuses, and net the equivalent of roughly $3,000-$4,000 without breaking a sweat. Easy. If this appeals to you, do it. The first round of churning can still lead to nice rewards. It's going back to the trough that requires more work and intentionality.

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whodidntante
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by whodidntante » Fri May 17, 2019 6:34 pm

Yes, I churn credit cards and yes it is worth my time. Thousands of dollars for very little work is basically legalized bank robbery.

mschurner
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by mschurner » Fri May 17, 2019 6:43 pm

I'm doing it as a hobby. Best thing is IRS won't touch a penny.. at least for now. Tax-free money.
You don't pay tax if you book hotel with points. You could get Elite status without staying hundreds of nights.
You could fly business class to intentional destinations with champagne glass in hand.
There are lot of benefits.

bck63
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by bck63 » Fri May 17, 2019 7:11 pm

Get the Fidelity Signature VISA with 2% cash back on everything and call it a day. They put the money right into your brokerage account.

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Nate79
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by Nate79 » Fri May 17, 2019 8:00 pm

A few every once in a while but I'm not so broke that it's going to move the needle.

MotoTrojan
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by MotoTrojan » Fri May 17, 2019 8:03 pm

Trader Joe wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 5:41 pm
TexMexIndex wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 4:55 pm
For those who spend time chasing new credit cards for rewards, do you find it worth the time for you? Where would one start looking on how to analyze and go about doing this?
No, it is definitely not worth the time.
You must be a fortune 500 CEO because there are few jobs that pay more than a CC sign-up bonus per minute.

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MillennialFinance19
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by MillennialFinance19 » Fri May 17, 2019 8:07 pm

We’re currently building a home gym. I just did the Capital One Savor intro that gives a $500 bonus after $3k spend. Now my wife is doing it (they allow spouses to apply separately and each earn the bonus). Overall, we’ll have less than an hour of effort into this with $1k in profit. To easy.

Jags4186
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by Jags4186 » Fri May 17, 2019 8:14 pm

Churning credit cards, churning bank accounts, and churning brokerage accounts (although I haven’t delved into brokerage accounts yet) is incredibly lucrative. It’s also one of those things that you get out as much as you put in. While I agree with many of the above posters that much of the real easy money has been shut down, primarily because of the increased popularity/blog presence, for a newbie there is at least $10,000 out there for the taking relatively easily. My wife and I have averaged about $10k/yr for the last 4 years—although in fairness that has slowed down in the past year or so—only did around $7k last year. I expect to be around $5k this year.

Additionally, there certainly is still outsized opportunity out there, it’s just kept secret for fear of shutdown. I only just learned about the Alliant Visa/Google Pay racket that I missed out on—people earning $1000s/mo cash back. Personally I used to be very big in MS. My local grocery store used to sell money orders until they shut it down. Then I switched to the US Post Office and that got shut down. Walmarts in my locale will not sell MOs to gift cards. So my big CC earning days are over, but I still hunt for a good sign up bonus when available.

dbr
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by dbr » Fri May 17, 2019 8:16 pm

Jags4186 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 8:14 pm
Churning credit cards, churning bank accounts, and churning brokerage accounts (although I haven’t delved into brokerage accounts yet) is incredibly lucrative. It’s also one of those things that you get out as much as you put in. While I agree with many of the above posters that much of the real easy money has been shut down, primarily because of the increased popularity/blog presence, for a newbie there is at least $10,000 out there for the taking relatively easily.

Additionally, there certainly is still outsized opportunity out there, it’s just kept secret for fear of shutdown. I only just learned about the Alliant Visa/Google Pay racket that I missed out on—people earning $1000s/mo cash back. Personally I used to be very big in MS. My local grocery store used to sell money orders until they shut it down. Then I switched to the US Post Office and that got shut down. Walmarts in my locale will not sell MOs to gift cards. So my big CC earning days are over, but I still hunt for a good sign up bonus when available.
I agree that until a person is in a multiple or two of $10,000 it isn't really churning. And I still say that is a hobby.

Ron Ronnerson
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by Ron Ronnerson » Sat May 18, 2019 10:41 am

For my personal circumstances, it is most definitely worth it. Our expenses are around $75k per year (this includes all taxes). However, good things begin to happen for us if we drop our adjusted gross income to below $64k. Specifically: our effective California income tax rate goes down to 0%, we qualify for $400 in the Saver’s Credit, and also get about $14.5k in premium tax credits (for this year). We use credit card bonuses to partially cover the gap between our $75k of expenses and the $64k target for our AGI. Basically, we use the bonuses as leverage to qualify for tax benefits that exceed the face value of the bonuses themselves (in fact, by a good amount). Additionally, since these bonuses help us to cover our expenses and also help us qualify for subsidized health insurance, it allows my wife to be a stay-at-home parent with our four-year-old. That is very valuable too.

Doing this stuff does take time and I think of it as work rather than free money. However, I don’t work summers (I’m a teacher) so have plenty of time available during certain parts of the year. Honestly, though, it doesn't take all that much time and the hourly rate is quite high. It certainly pays a far better rate than teaching summer school would.

We’ve earned approximately $10k/year between credit card, bank account, and brokerage bonuses for each of the the past several years. The bank account bonuses are taxable so I increase my retirement contributions by an equal amount. The brokerage bonuses that we’ve gone after have typically involved Roth IRA accounts so, just like the credit card bonuses, they are not taxable. I like to think of the brokerage bonuses as a sort of negative expense ratio for the year.

I primarily use doctorofcredit.com to check out offers. It's not hard work and our credit scores remain in good shape.

aristotelian
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by aristotelian » Sat May 18, 2019 10:56 am

I think a couple of cards per year is a no brainer for a few minutes of work. After you grab the big bonuses and have a lot of cards, you start to get diminishing returns. I got the $700 bonus from Barclaycard Arrival+ and used it toward a large vacation we are doing this year. I am planning to grab a Merrill brokerage bonus in the fall and will see if BofA will give me another card at that time to upgrade to Premium Rewards.

stoptothink
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by stoptothink » Sat May 18, 2019 11:04 am

This is getting me interested. I do online surveys, make ~$300/yr for about 5min/week of my time that I'd otherwise be doing nothing with. We make good livings, this is just fun money. Looks like it shouldn't be that difficult to make several times that with just a few cards a year. I'm checking out doctorofcredit right now.

wootwoot
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by wootwoot » Sat May 18, 2019 2:24 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 11:04 am
This is getting me interested. I do online surveys, make ~$300/yr for about 5min/week of my time that I'd otherwise be doing nothing with. We make good livings, this is just fun money. Looks like it shouldn't be that difficult to make several times that with just a few cards a year. I'm checking out doctorofcredit right now.
Where do you get paid for online surveys?

JBTX
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by JBTX » Sat May 18, 2019 2:46 pm

I wouldn't use the word churn for me, because I haven't repeated any cards or bank accounts yet. Last I checked, I've netted about $14 in credit card/ bank bonuses in 2 years. I've mostly stuck to cash rewards because we aren't really traveling much now. Is that "worth it"? For me, yes. $14k is $14k. It does take an investment in time, but it isn't particularly difficult. With a credit card maybe I invest a few hours of time between set up, tracking, follow up for a $500 cash bonus. It is almost like a hobby. I mostly haven't screwed with ones less than $500 bonus.

I've done some bank ones too, they are a bit more of a PITA. If you really want to be assured of being accepted you need to go to the bank. Setting up online I'm maybe 50/50.

It becomes particularly lucrative if you can claim a business and hit the business cards.

Ive done almost all I can for me and several for my wife. At this point the easy pickins are gone but things still pop up here and there. If I'm going to continue I need to cancel some cards and let the clock run out on doing them again.

I primarily use doctor of credit as my go to source for card and bank bonuses.

stoptothink
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by stoptothink » Sat May 18, 2019 3:50 pm

wootwoot wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 2:24 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 11:04 am
This is getting me interested. I do online surveys, make ~$300/yr for about 5min/week of my time that I'd otherwise be doing nothing with. We make good livings, this is just fun money. Looks like it shouldn't be that difficult to make several times that with just a few cards a year. I'm checking out doctorofcredit right now.
Where do you get paid for online surveys?
paidviewpoint.com. I've been doing it for many years and have earned about $1600 total. People I have referred in the last handful of years have told me that they rarely get surveys, but I get at least a dozen a week, ranging from $.10 to a few dollars.

I just signed up for the Capitol One Savor; $500 bonus after spending $3k in the first 3 months. Will pay wife's tuition and be done. Figure I can get a new card every time wife has to pay for school, just to dip my toe into this game.

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fortfun
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by fortfun » Sat May 18, 2019 4:07 pm

TexMexIndex wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 4:55 pm
For those who spend time chasing new credit cards for rewards, do you find it worth the time for you? Where would one start looking on how to analyze and go about doing this?
DW and I have been doing it for about 2 years now. It has paid for a lot of travel for our family. I recommend it for someone that can stay on top of autopay and canceling cards, etc. So far, we've done this:

Flights to Big Island & return from Maui. (2 xmas ago). Rental card paid with points.
Round trip flight to London (last summer).
Round trip to Kauai (this xmas). 1 week at Marriott (paid with points).
Flight to Ecuador and return from Peru (this summer).
South Africa (next summer)

Adding the cost of flights would have made these trips unattainable. Cards we've done:
Chase Sapphire. (Hawaii 1) (London)
Chase United Explorer. (Peru)
Cap One Venture (Hawaii rental car)
Cap One Savor (500 cash)
Citi Thank you (Hawaii 2)
Citi AA (Ecuador)
Marriot SPG (now bonvoy) (Hawaii 2)
Chase Marriott (discontinued now) (Hawaii 2)
Delta Amex (South Africa next year?)
Delta Business Amex (first business card) (South Africa next year?)
Citi AA Business card (South Africa next year?)

We have run up against 5/24 rules with Chase and Citi. Therefore, I moved on to business cards now. We've easily paid for 10k in travel the past two years (using signup bonus and regular spend points). So, 10k for about 10 hours of work is not bad, IMO.
Last edited by fortfun on Sat May 18, 2019 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fortfun
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by fortfun » Sat May 18, 2019 4:08 pm

whodidntante wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 6:34 pm
Yes, I churn credit cards and yes it is worth my time. Thousands of dollars for very little work is basically legalized bank robbery.
+1 with no 1099s :)

triggerfish10
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by triggerfish10 » Sun May 19, 2019 8:22 am

How much is one's credit score affected by applying for several credit cards every year?
"A quiet and modest life brings more joy than a pursuit of success bound with constant unrest" - Albert Einstein

k3vb0t
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by k3vb0t » Sun May 19, 2019 8:40 am

triggerfish10 wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 8:22 am
How much is one's credit score affected by applying for several credit cards every year?
If you pay them off and don’t miss payments it can actually help. My credit score (which was already great) improved when my wife and I churned a bunch of cards for a European vacation a few years ago.

DrGrnTum
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by DrGrnTum » Sun May 19, 2019 10:32 am

triggerfish10 » Sun May 19, 2019 8:22 am

How much is one's credit score affected by applying for several credit cards every year?
Say you have a high score of 700s to 800, you will take a hit of a few points every time you open a CC. After you have had the cards for awhile and you are diligent in paying off the balance each month your score will actually go up. I think the only time you would be concern about your score is when you are about to finance a large purchase.
If you are someone with a low credit score, then churning credit cards should not be for you. If this is the case, maybe watching few Dave Ramsey videos is in order?

JBTX
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by JBTX » Sun May 19, 2019 10:46 am

triggerfish10 wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 8:22 am
How much is one's credit score affected by applying for several credit cards every year?
Mine started around 840-850 2 years ago and maybe 10-15 cards ago and after a refinance it is around 820. I think much of that dip is due to refinance. It got as low as 790 briefly.

You take a minor hit when applying for new cards, and the new cards decreases your longevity a bit, but it can help your credit utilization quite a bit, which over time tends to offset the minor negative impacts.

Horsefly
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by Horsefly » Sun May 19, 2019 11:16 am

Applying for - and receiving - new credit cards has generally a more positive impact on your credit score than the negative one. Generally a new application will result in a "hard" inquiry to one or more of the credit bureaus. The number of hard inquiries only contributes 10% of your score. However, if you are granted a credit card it increases the amount of available credit. Your "credit utilization ratio" (the the total balance you carry on all your cards divided by the total credit limits on all your cards) contributes around 30% to your score. So, applying for the card can be a negative in the 10% part of your score, but getting the card can be a bump to the 30% part of your card.

An interesting side note: For the last 5 cards I have gotten, I had to un-freeze / thaw my three credit reports, but no hard inquiries were ever reported on either Transunion or Equifax (according to Credit Karma), and my FICO score didn't seem to take a hit either (according to Discover card and Barclaycard). So it appears that some of the credit card applications don't actually show up as hard inquiries, meaning they don't negatively impact your score.

MotoTrojan
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by MotoTrojan » Sun May 19, 2019 11:53 am

fortfun wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:07 pm
TexMexIndex wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 4:55 pm
For those who spend time chasing new credit cards for rewards, do you find it worth the time for you? Where would one start looking on how to analyze and go about doing this?
DW and I have been doing it for about 2 years now. It has paid for a lot of travel for our family. I recommend it for someone that can stay on top of autopay and canceling cards, etc. So far, we've done this:

Flights to Big Island & return from Maui. (2 xmas ago). Rental card paid with points.
Round trip flight to London (last summer).
Round trip to Kauai (this xmas). 1 week at Marriott (paid with points).
Flight to Ecuador and return from Peru (this summer).
South Africa (next summer)

Adding the cost of flights would have made these trips unattainable. Cards we've done:
Chase Sapphire. (Hawaii 1) (London)
Chase United Explorer. (Peru)
Cap One Venture (Hawaii rental car)
Cap One Savor (500 cash)
Citi Thank you (Hawaii 2)
Citi AA (Ecuador)
Marriot SPG (now bonvoy) (Hawaii 2)
Chase Marriott (discontinued now) (Hawaii 2)
Delta Amex (South Africa next year?)
Delta Business Amex (first business card) (South Africa next year?)
Citi AA Business card (South Africa next year?)

We have run up against 5/24 rules with Chase and Citi. Therefore, I moved on to business cards now. We've easily paid for 10k in travel the past two years (using signup bonus and regular spend points). So, 10k for about 10 hours of work is not bad, IMO.
How close together were your Cap1’s? I’ve heard 1 every 6 months. Believe I’m somewhere around 9/24 and have a Savor I’ll be cancelling in November on its anniversary but I have been wanting to add the Venture before I do (thinking they’ll like seeing some spending from me). I cancelled a Quicksilver and Ventureone around time I got the Savor.

MotoTrojan
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by MotoTrojan » Sun May 19, 2019 11:57 am

triggerfish10 wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 8:22 am
How much is one's credit score affected by applying for several credit cards every year?
Depending on which you use as a reference mine took a decent hit from 780 range to 670-720, but I also carried a large balance on them to arbitrage the 0% APR bonus. I recently paid most of it off and am interested to see how well things bounce back.

Need to make sure I can get the Wells Fargo Visa Signature in a few months so I can turn my Propel 3% cash back points into 4.5% airfare :).

triggerfish10
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by triggerfish10 » Sun May 19, 2019 1:40 pm

I was always under the impression that every card that is opened (as well as every loan applied for, etc.) was a hard pull on your credit, and could do a number on your credit score. Good to know that keeping credit utilization ratio low (which we do anyway) will have a more positive impact on one's credit score than a hard pull having a negative one. I have never churned cards before, but I think I just may start. We do not travel very much, so I will just go for cash back rewards instead of miles.
We have run up against 5/24 rules with Chase and Citi. Therefore, I moved on to business cards now
Stupid question, but I imagine that you have some sort of business, right? Do they even ask?
"A quiet and modest life brings more joy than a pursuit of success bound with constant unrest" - Albert Einstein

Olemiss540
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by Olemiss540 » Sun May 19, 2019 2:00 pm

7 chase cards (2 of them business cards) each for the spouse and I, now onto our second Capital One card.

In total took about an hour per card and net 500 bucks on average of each. I do not worry (yet) about best redemption value and use the points as quickly as possible. 4 years of southwest companion passes has also been a nice perk.

Would seem like you would need to make a heck of a living to turndown computer work at $500 bucks an hour.
I hold index funds because I do not overestimate my ability to pick stocks OR stock pickers.

Horsefly
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by Horsefly » Sun May 19, 2019 2:27 pm

triggerfish10 wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 1:40 pm
We have run up against 5/24 rules with Chase and Citi. Therefore, I moved on to business cards now
Stupid question, but I imagine that you have some sort of business, right? Do they even ask?
The bar is pretty low. You don't have to even have a business that is currently making money, but you need to have a plausible plan to do so. You can drive Uber/Lyft, tutor high school kids, etc. You can apply as a sole proprietor and have it just be in your name (i.e., you don't really have to have a company name).

harrychan
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by harrychan » Sun May 19, 2019 2:33 pm

I would only consider it if I had a company where I regularly need to spend for business use. Otherwise, it simply isn't worth the effort and the limitations of using points brings more frustration than is rewarding.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.

investor997
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by investor997 » Sun May 19, 2019 2:43 pm

Is there any consensus how many cards is too many?

I have a Chase Southwest VISA that I never use. Got it 18 months ago and was going to cancel at the 12-month anniversary but Chase waived the annual fee so I still have it. What I'd like to do is swap it out for a Chase Sapphire Preferred so I can bag the 60K bonus. I'd also like to pair it up with a CFU so long as it's got the 12-month "3% on everything" promotion. I'm just not sure if I should apply for the new cards first before canceling the Southwest, or cancel and then apply. If I could spread the existing credit line across the two new cards I'd be happy.

Also thinking of moving some assets over from Merrill to Chase so I can get the 60K Sapphire Banking sign-up. Would there be any benefit to walking into a local branch and having a human assist me with all of this or just stick to online/phone?

Pu239
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by Pu239 » Sun May 19, 2019 2:43 pm

triggerfish10 wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 1:40 pm
I was always under the impression that every card that is opened (as well as every loan applied for, etc.) was a hard pull on your credit, and could do a number on your credit score. Good to know that keeping credit utilization ratio low (which we do anyway) will have a more positive impact on one's credit score than a hard pull having a negative one. I have never churned cards before, but I think I just may start. We do not travel very much, so I will just go for cash back rewards instead of miles.
We have run up against 5/24 rules with Chase and Citi. Therefore, I moved on to business cards now
Stupid question, but I imagine that you have some sort of business, right? Do they even ask?
I have an actual sole prop business and limit business cc spending to just that - no personal purchases. Many have a "business" and ignore the cardholder agreement rules when chasing rewards. If you play the "business" game, failure is an option.

triggerfish10
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by triggerfish10 » Sun May 19, 2019 2:45 pm

If you play the "business" game, failure is an option
Good to know - sounds like a bad idea
"A quiet and modest life brings more joy than a pursuit of success bound with constant unrest" - Albert Einstein

IngognitoUSA
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by IngognitoUSA » Sun May 19, 2019 4:54 pm

There is an active market for selling points for cash, but seller beware, some banks and airlines catch on and ban you for life.

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ClevrChico
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by ClevrChico » Sun May 19, 2019 5:07 pm

It's an easy way to make a couple thousand year, mostly tax free, for a few hours worth of work. There's still lots of opportunities.

I put estimated taxes on the card to generate spend. The fee is low enough to make it worthwhile.

stoptothink
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by stoptothink » Sun May 19, 2019 5:41 pm

We're trying to figure out how to meet spending limits. After wife's tuition, we don't have many reocurring large expenses that could help us meet limits and we are simple (low expense) people. I'll likely buy a bunch of Winco and WalMart gift cards because we'll use those. Otherwise, MIL watches my son, this is our largest reocurring expense (more than our mortgage). I've read conflicting things about whether sending someone money via paypal (paid with CC) counts. Anybody have experience with this?

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fortfun
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by fortfun » Sun May 19, 2019 5:51 pm

MotoTrojan wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 11:53 am
fortfun wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:07 pm
TexMexIndex wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 4:55 pm
For those who spend time chasing new credit cards for rewards, do you find it worth the time for you? Where would one start looking on how to analyze and go about doing this?
DW and I have been doing it for about 2 years now. It has paid for a lot of travel for our family. I recommend it for someone that can stay on top of autopay and canceling cards, etc. So far, we've done this:

Flights to Big Island & return from Maui. (2 xmas ago). Rental card paid with points.
Round trip flight to London (last summer).
Round trip to Kauai (this xmas). 1 week at Marriott (paid with points).
Flight to Ecuador and return from Peru (this summer).
South Africa (next summer)

Adding the cost of flights would have made these trips unattainable. Cards we've done:
Chase Sapphire. (Hawaii 1) (London)
Chase United Explorer. (Peru)
Cap One Venture (Hawaii rental car)
Cap One Savor (500 cash)
Citi Thank you (Hawaii 2)
Citi AA (Ecuador)
Marriot SPG (now bonvoy) (Hawaii 2)
Chase Marriott (discontinued now) (Hawaii 2)
Delta Amex (South Africa next year?)
Delta Business Amex (first business card) (South Africa next year?)
Citi AA Business card (South Africa next year?)

We have run up against 5/24 rules with Chase and Citi. Therefore, I moved on to business cards now. We've easily paid for 10k in travel the past two years (using signup bonus and regular spend points). So, 10k for about 10 hours of work is not bad, IMO.
How close together were your Cap1’s? I’ve heard 1 every 6 months. Believe I’m somewhere around 9/24 and have a Savor I’ll be cancelling in November on its anniversary but I have been wanting to add the Venture before I do (thinking they’ll like seeing some spending from me). I cancelled a Quicksilver and Ventureone around time I got the Savor.
I got both around 5/24. Poor DW got rejected on both around 5/24. Stupidly, I added her to a few of my cards for 10k bonuses. I think that's what put her over the top but I'm not sure. We both have 800+ credit scores. Hopefully, another 6 months and she'll be back in business with cap 1 :)

THY4373
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by THY4373 » Sun May 19, 2019 7:14 pm

harrychan wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 2:33 pm
I would only consider it if I had a company where I regularly need to spend for business use. Otherwise, it simply isn't worth the effort and the limitations of using points brings more frustration than is rewarding.
For you perhaps. Points have limits true but they are also more flexible than cash in some ways. I can do international one-way tickets on points for half the price in points as a round trip. One-way in cash is often more than a round trip. Due to the way I like to travel one-ways are important to me. Points bookings are refundable for free to a nominal fee. Reasonable priced cash fares generally are not (even in premium cabins).

Starfish
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by Starfish » Sun May 19, 2019 9:26 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 5:41 pm
We're trying to figure out how to meet spending limits. After wife's tuition, we don't have many reocurring large expenses that could help us meet limits and we are simple (low expense) people. I'll likely buy a bunch of Winco and WalMart gift cards because we'll use those. Otherwise, MIL watches my son, this is our largest reocurring expense (more than our mortgage). I've read conflicting things about whether sending someone money via paypal (paid with CC) counts. Anybody have experience with this?
You can pay in advance (to concentrate expenses in 3 months) utilities, cable, phone etc.

JBTX
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Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by JBTX » Sun May 19, 2019 9:42 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 5:41 pm
We're trying to figure out how to meet spending limits. After wife's tuition, we don't have many reocurring large expenses that could help us meet limits and we are simple (low expense) people. I'll likely buy a bunch of Winco and WalMart gift cards because we'll use those. Otherwise, MIL watches my son, this is our largest reocurring expense (more than our mortgage). I've read conflicting things about whether sending someone money via paypal (paid with CC) counts. Anybody have experience with this?
Auto insurance
Home insurance
Property tax
Estimated tax payments.

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TexasPE
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Location: Southeast Texas

Re: Churning Credit Cards

Post by TexasPE » Mon May 20, 2019 7:25 am

Personally I follow the 80-20 rule - high return with little effort/ time. Focus entirely on the sign-up bonus, and use property taxes or other large dollar purchases. Prop taxes, for example, has a 2.5% convenience fee, so for a $3,000 min spend the cost is $75, far less than the value for sign-up bonus. I don"t spend the time to find an exotic overseas flight in business class to "maximize"the value"- just use the points to cover trip expenses we would already make and pay for. A side benefit is the free checked bag, etc. for airline cards, buyer protection for purchases, rental car insurance coverage, etc. YMMV. Depends entirely on your objectives...
At 20: I cared what everyone thought about me | At 40: I didn't give a damn what anyone thought of me | Now that I'm 60: I realize that no one was really thinking about me at all | Winston Churchill (?)

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