Cash Deposit Bank

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knicksfan111
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Cash Deposit Bank

Post by knicksfan111 » Sat May 11, 2019 4:11 pm

Hi I'm a little confused what the laws are depositing cash into a bank. Is it every 12 months you are allowed to deposit $9,999 without any questioning? Would depositing checks count towards this as well or just hard cash?

Should this all be done at once? Or is it better to split up totaling $9,999?


I don't want to go through headaches of the IRS seizing it under suspicion of anything. Thanks

jbranx
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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by jbranx » Sat May 11, 2019 7:41 pm

Welcome to the Forum. This link may help answer your questions. Multiple deposits less than $10K might also be reported as "structured" deposits by the bank.

https://budgeting.thenest.com/happens-d ... 31132.html

Spirit Rider
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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by Spirit Rider » Sat May 11, 2019 8:32 pm

I don't know why there is such misinformation on the this. As the link provided indicates there is a currency transaction report CTR required for single cash deposits >= $10,000. However, any attempt to avoid the reporting can be considered the crime of "structuring" in and of itself, even if there is no underlying criminal activity.

Banks are also required to file a suspicious activity report SAR if it appears someone is trying to avoid the limit. Hint, if you were to deposit $9,999, the black helicopters will be coming after you. That would probably cause a bigger alarm than a $100K deposit.

For your information, there are millions of CTRs generated every year. They vast majority cause no concern by the government. There is also no yearly limit. If you have a legitimate reason for depositing cash, there is nothing to worry about. If you are a drug dealer or pimp, you might have a problem regularly depositing large amounts of cash, if you can't justify the source.

In some cultures, large gifts for the bride and groom are the norm and by tradition are in cash. I know a couple whose family deposited mid five-figures in cash into their bank account after their wedding. No one came kicking down their door.

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LadyGeek
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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by LadyGeek » Sat May 11, 2019 9:31 pm

Discussions of dishonest behavior or bypassing the law are totally unacceptable. An off-topic post regarding structuring has been removed.

The intent is to understand how to do this within the existing legal framework; in which case this discussion can continue.

The approach is to educate members on how to do things legally. State your points in a factual manner. If the intent strays from this objective, please report the post and we'll investigate.
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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by LadyGeek » Sat May 11, 2019 9:33 pm

knicksfan111, Welcome! Here are some additional helpful links: FinCEN Educational Pamphlet on the Currency Transaction Reporting Requirement
Why is my financial institution asking me for identification and personal information?

Federal law requires financial institutions to report currency (cash or coin) transactions over $10,000 conducted by, or on behalf of, one person,
as well as multiple currency transactions that aggregate to be over $10,000 in a single day. These transactions are reported on Currency Transaction Reports (CTRs). The federal law requiring these reports was passed to safeguard the financial industry from threats posed by money laundering and other financial crime. To comply with this law, financial institutions must obtain personal identification information about the individual conducting the transaction such as a Social Security number as well as a driver’s license or other government issued document. This requirement applies whether the individual conducting the transaction has an account relationship with the institution or not. There is no general prohibition against handling large amounts of currency and the filing of a CTR is required regardless of the reasons for the currency transaction. The financial institution collects this information in a manner consistent with a customer’s right to financial privacy.

Can I break up my currency transactions into multiple, smaller amounts to avoid being reported to the government?

No. This is called “structuring.” Federal law makes it a crime to break up transactions into smaller amounts for the purpose of evading the CTR reporting requirement and this may lead to a required disclosure from the financial institution to the government. Structuring transactions to prevent a CTR from being reported can result in imprisonment for not more than five years and/or a fine of up to $250,000. If structuring involves more than $100,000 in a twelve month period or is performed while violating another law of the United States, the penalty is doubled.
Also see: Currency Transaction Reporting—Overview
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whodidntante
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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by whodidntante » Sat May 11, 2019 9:40 pm

You are allowed to deposit any amount of cash that you acquired legally, as often as you need to.

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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by RickBoglehead » Sat May 11, 2019 11:02 pm

whodidntante wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:40 pm
You are allowed to deposit any amount of cash that you acquired legally, as often as you need to.
This ^^^
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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by Daryl » Sun May 12, 2019 7:08 am

Just out of curiosity, is the CTR reporting process transparent to the customer? Will I even know if one of my transactions was reportable?

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samsoes
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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by samsoes » Sun May 12, 2019 7:23 am

Daryl wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:08 am
Just out of curiosity, is the CTR reporting process transparent to the customer? Will I even know if one of my transactions was reportable?
No, you won't know a report was filed until there's a knock on the door by an agent of a three-letter Federal agency (FBI, IRS, etc.).

Have your paperwork handy showing the legal reason for large deposits in case of such a visit. And, never structure to avoid CTR reporting. The consequences are severe.
"Happiness Is Not My Companion" - Gen. Gouverneur K. Warren. | (Avatar is the statue of Gen. Warren atop Little Round Top @ Gettysburg National Military Park.)

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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by 22twain » Sun May 12, 2019 7:33 am

samsoes wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:23 am
Have your paperwork handy showing the legal reason for large deposits in case of such a visit.
In the case of a wedding gift as described earlier in the thread, what might the appropriate paperwork be? Perhaps a wedding certificate documenting the date, and a perhaps a gift card/letter from the gifters?
My investing princiPLEs do not include absolutely preserving princiPAL.

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samsoes
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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by samsoes » Sun May 12, 2019 7:38 am

22twain wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:33 am
samsoes wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:23 am
Have your paperwork handy showing the legal reason for large deposits in case of such a visit.
In the case of a wedding gift as described earlier in the thread, what might the appropriate paperwork be? Perhaps a wedding certificate documenting the date, and a perhaps a gift card/letter from the gifters?
Something like that. Save the cards, and in each one write the amount of the gift, indicating if it was cash or check (and check number, if applicable). It might be best if any accompanying checks be deposited at the same time as the cash in such a case. An Excel spreadsheet or other type of log summarizing these details would help.
"Happiness Is Not My Companion" - Gen. Gouverneur K. Warren. | (Avatar is the statue of Gen. Warren atop Little Round Top @ Gettysburg National Military Park.)

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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by Daryl » Sun May 12, 2019 7:43 am

samsoes wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:23 am
Daryl wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:08 am
Just out of curiosity, is the CTR reporting process transparent to the customer? Will I even know if one of my transactions was reportable?
No, you won't know a report was filed until there's a knock on the door by an agent of a three-letter Federal agency (FBI, IRS, etc.).

Have your paperwork handy showing the legal reason for large deposits available in case of such a visit. And, never structure to avoid CTR reporting, even if the reason for the deposit(s) is 1005 legitimate.
Do you have any experience with this, either on the banking / reporting side, or law enforcement? I almost always have less than $5 in "cold, hard cash" so I'm not concerned about triggering a CTR, but I do work in financial services and I'm always interested in learning more. What information is required in a CTR? Does the customer need to provide a "stated purpose" of the cash transaction?

Additionally, my limited understanding of the law is that splitting a large cash transaction between more than 1 financial institution to avoid the "$10K trigger" would still be "structuring" (illegal). I don't know how the reporting / enforcement would work in this situation, though I'm assuming the Special Ops will be waiting for you when you get home that day!

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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by Gill » Sun May 12, 2019 7:46 am

whodidntante wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:40 pm
You are allowed to deposit any amount of cash that you acquired legally, as often as you need to.
Even acquired illegally if you wish.
Gill
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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by samsoes » Sun May 12, 2019 7:55 am

Daryl wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:43 am
Does the customer need to provide a "stated purpose" of the cash transaction?
Yes! :!:

This is why Dennis Hastert, former Speaker of the House and second in line to the Presidency during the 9/11 attacks was jailed: lying about the reason for large cash transactions.

Google: Dennis Hastert structuring
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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by Spirit Rider » Sun May 12, 2019 7:59 am

samsoes wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:23 am
Daryl wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:08 am
Just out of curiosity, is the CTR reporting process transparent to the customer? Will I even know if one of my transactions was reportable?
No, you won't know a report was filed until there's a knock on the door by an agent of a three-letter Federal agency (FBI, IRS, etc.).

Have your paperwork handy showing the legal reason for large deposits in case of such a visit. And, never structure to avoid CTR reporting. The consequences are severe.
Certainly have justification for the amounts of cash, but there are millions of CTRs generated each year.

Unless you are already under investigation or have a pattern of CTRs, you will never hear anything.

You probably have higher odds of a random IRS Taxpayer Compliance Measurement Program (TCMP) Audit.

Your post is not helpful.

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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by samsoes » Sun May 12, 2019 8:03 am

Spirit Rider wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:59 am
samsoes wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:23 am
Daryl wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:08 am
Just out of curiosity, is the CTR reporting process transparent to the customer? Will I even know if one of my transactions was reportable?
No, you won't know a report was filed until there's a knock on the door by an agent of a three-letter Federal agency (FBI, IRS, etc.).

Have your paperwork handy showing the legal reason for large deposits in case of such a visit. And, never structure to avoid CTR reporting. The consequences are severe.
Certainly have justification for the amounts of cash, but there are millions of CTRs generated each year.

Unless you are already under investigation or have a pattern of CTRs, you will never hear anything.

You probably have higher odds of a random IRS Taxpayer Compliance Measurement Program (TCMP) Audit.

Your post is not helpful.
I disagree. If my post dissuades someone to structure large cash deposits and therefore not commit a felony, it is very useful. Please re-read the first post in this thread. The OP seemed to think that it was an option to break-up large deposits to avoid reporting.

In addition, a visit from a three-letter Federal agent happened to my sister and her husband for putting a large cash down-payment on a car. Car dealers also utilize CTR's. That was their one-and-only CTR experience.
"Happiness Is Not My Companion" - Gen. Gouverneur K. Warren. | (Avatar is the statue of Gen. Warren atop Little Round Top @ Gettysburg National Military Park.)

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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by Spirit Rider » Sun May 12, 2019 9:00 am

samsoes wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:03 am
I disagree. If my post dissuades someone to structure large cash deposits and therefore not commit a felony, it is very useful. Please re-read the first post in this thread. The OP seemed to think that it was an option to break-up large deposits to avoid reporting.
[OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]
In addition, a visit from a three-letter Federal agent happened to my sister and her husband for putting a large cash down-payment on a car. Car dealers also utilize CTR's. That was their one-and-only CTR experience.
Red Herring. We are talking about Bank deposits.

Yes, a CTR is also generated at car dealerships. Who makes five figure cash down payments at a car dealership. Except drug dealers and others trying to hide cash.

Cash deposits >= $10K at banks are routine and in most cirumstances hardly raise an eyebrow. A $1K cash down payment is unusual, a >= $10K cash down payment is a red flag.

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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by samsoes » Sun May 12, 2019 9:13 am

Spirit Rider wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 9:00 am
samsoes wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:03 am
I disagree. If my post dissuades someone to structure large cash deposits and therefore not commit a felony, it is very useful. Please re-read the first post in this thread. The OP seemed to think that it was an option to break-up large deposits to avoid reporting.
[OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]
[OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]

Knowledge of the facts is good, and "facts are stubborn things"*.

Here are the facts:

1. Cash transactions over $10,000 will trigger a CTR.
2. A CTR may trigger an investigation, for which one should be prepared to substantiate with organized, detailed documentation.
3. Never structure to avoid CTR reporting.

Nothing to fear. But being prepared is essential.

* John Adams, 1770.
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Broken Man 1999
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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Sun May 12, 2019 9:43 am

Spirit Rider wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 9:00 am
samsoes wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:03 am
I disagree. If my post dissuades someone to structure large cash deposits and therefore not commit a felony, it is very useful. Please re-read the first post in this thread. The OP seemed to think that it was an option to break-up large deposits to avoid reporting.
[OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]
In addition, a visit from a three-letter Federal agent happened to my sister and her husband for putting a large cash down-payment on a car. Car dealers also utilize CTR's. That was their one-and-only CTR experience.
Red Herring. We are talking about Bank deposits.

Yes, a CTR is also generated at car dealerships. Who makes five figure cash down payments at a car dealership. Except drug dealers and others trying to hide cash.

Um, I have. And I am not a drug dealer, and I have never tried to hide cash.

Cash deposits >= $10K at banks are routine and in most cirumstances hardly raise an eyebrow. A $1K cash down payment is unusual, a >= $10K cash down payment is a red flag.

Why? A $10K cash down payment is only about 25% of the cost of a large SUV, if even that.
Broken Man 1999
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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by LadyGeek » Sun May 12, 2019 10:51 am

I removed an off-topic comment and several replies, the discussion was getting contentious. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette
This is a moderated forum. We expect this forum to be a place where people can feel comfortable asking questions and where debates and discussions are conducted in civil tones.
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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by Scrapr » Sun May 12, 2019 10:59 am

Daryl wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:08 am
Just out of curiosity, is the CTR reporting process transparent to the customer? Will I even know if one of my transactions was reportable?
I just deposited a mid 6 figure check from parents estate. They asked a few questions. Innocuous if you weren't aware of the structuring reports. Teller called over a manager. We chit chatted. NBD. The check came from the trust of parents estate so that lined up with my story. Biggest surprise was funds were available immediately. No hold. I was a bit taken aback at that

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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by The Wizard » Sun May 12, 2019 12:09 pm

Scrapr wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 10:59 am
Daryl wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:08 am
Just out of curiosity, is the CTR reporting process transparent to the customer? Will I even know if one of my transactions was reportable?
I just deposited a mid 6 figure check from parents estate. They asked a few questions. Innocuous if you weren't aware of the structuring reports. Teller called over a manager. We chit chatted. NBD. The check came from the trust of parents estate so that lined up with my story. Biggest surprise was funds were available immediately. No hold. I was a bit taken aback at that
Well thank goodness it wasn't mid six figures in hundred dollar bills.
That's apparently where the potential problems arise...
Attempted new signature...

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Re: Cash Deposit Bank

Post by 8foot7 » Sun May 12, 2019 2:13 pm

Scrapr wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 10:59 am
Daryl wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:08 am
Just out of curiosity, is the CTR reporting process transparent to the customer? Will I even know if one of my transactions was reportable?
I just deposited a mid 6 figure check from parents estate. They asked a few questions. Innocuous if you weren't aware of the structuring reports. Teller called over a manager. We chit chatted. NBD. The check came from the trust of parents estate so that lined up with my story. Biggest surprise was funds were available immediately. No hold. I was a bit taken aback at that
This has nothing to do with CTRs which deal with cash transactions (dollar bills and coins). The discussion you had was probably related to whether to make funds available immediately or place a large deposit hold.

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