Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

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Miguelito
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Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by Miguelito » Fri May 10, 2019 4:08 pm

I know many aim for hitting their number as quickly as possible. I'm not necessarily talking about FIRE, just being able to retire sooner than SSA implies/expects.

The question is, assuming you could retire earlier but you don't hate your job and are able to continue to do it and generate high income, and assuming higher education is accounted for, do you worry about setting up your grown children financially?

As an example, if working until 61 instead of 58 would buy you a bit more peace of mind in retirement, but realistically (barring something crazy) just amounts to more money for your children, would you retire 3 years later?

I suppose it can depend on the children's ability to sustain themselves financially, but if you sense that they may not have the ability to generate high enough income to live the life they and you would like them to live, would you keep going a bit longer? I'm not talking opulence here, rather things like affording a better neighborhood/school system or helping grandchildren with college savings, etc.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Fri May 10, 2019 4:16 pm

I will answer as though I were my wife. She continues to work, at a job she enjoys, in large part to be prepared to help our children, her parents, her siblings, etc.

We have helped relatives in the past. She feels that she is the best positioned one to help out if necessary.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

soccerrules
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by soccerrules » Fri May 10, 2019 4:17 pm

short answer- YES

If you really do like your jobs and do not have something pulling you away (non-profit work, hobby) - why not. Other than what you mentioned you might find other worthy causes to support with your extra financial means.

I am willing to work a little longer to make sure my kids do not have college debt to start life with, that's just something we want to do.
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DonIce
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by DonIce » Fri May 10, 2019 4:18 pm

At some point the bird has to leave the nest and fly on its own wings.

just1question
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by just1question » Fri May 10, 2019 4:20 pm

There is no standard right answer. It's deeply personal. Whichever makes you happier. If you're not sure which that is, then I usually go with whatever lets me sleep more soundly at night. (But I don't think you "owe" anything to your adult children.) Good luck.

furnace
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by furnace » Fri May 10, 2019 4:24 pm

DonIce wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:18 pm
At some point the bird has to leave the nest and fly on its own wings.
The sooner, the better for all involved.

KlangFool
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by KlangFool » Fri May 10, 2019 4:29 pm

Miguelito wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:08 pm

I suppose it can depend on the children's ability to sustain themselves financially, but if you sense that they may not have the ability to generate high enough income to live the life they and you would like them to live, would you keep going a bit longer? I'm not talking opulence here, rather things like affording a better neighborhood/school system or helping grandchildren with college savings, etc.
Miguelito,

1) No.

2) If I have more money, I would donate more to charity. I believe in Karma. I believe that would help my family more.

KlangFool
Last edited by KlangFool on Fri May 10, 2019 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hockey10
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by Hockey10 » Fri May 10, 2019 4:31 pm

Looking forward to the response from livesoft on this one.......

RadAudit
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by RadAudit » Fri May 10, 2019 4:44 pm

I was employed until the kids were out of school, college debt free and employed. I was 63. I retired.

Looking back, I've come to an understanding that I can't live their lives for them or provide them with enough money so they can live like they'd want to live and take care of DW, too. Working several more years would not change those facts or materially alter their circumstances.

So, my vote is no.

Edit I'm not even sure extra money would improve their decision making or prevent them from essentially ending up where they are now. It may even ultimately deprive them of the satisfaction of making their own way in life.
Last edited by RadAudit on Fri May 10, 2019 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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celia
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by celia » Fri May 10, 2019 4:52 pm

Even though there is no "right answer", I wonder if OP is thinking of working longer only because he doesn't know what else to do. I hope he has some goals, such as traveling, hobbies, volunteering, learning new things.

In other words, don't work until the day you die. . . That would be so sad. :(

You saved up for retirement and should have some time to enjoy it.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by ResearchMed » Fri May 10, 2019 4:54 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:29 pm
Miguelito wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:08 pm

I suppose it can depend on the children's ability to sustain themselves financially, but if you sense that they may not have the ability to generate high enough income to live the life they and you would like them to live, would you keep going a bit longer? I'm not talking opulence here, rather things like affording a better neighborhood/school system or helping grandchildren with college savings, etc.
Miguelito,

1) No.

2) If I have more money, I would donate more to charity. I believe in Karma. I believe that would help my family more.

KlangFool
Continuing with what KlangFool has emphasized... IF they won't be able to "live the life they and you would like them to live"... are you going to leave trusts that would support them "in style" for their entire lives? If not, when does the support end, and what do they do then?

Many of us, and our families, may have benefited from a better school district or a bigger college savings pot - and some of us, including both of us, had NO "college savings" from parents or grandparents, and we've done just fine. Would it have been easier with a nice "pot o' money"? Maybe, but it might not have had the same successful outcome; there is no way to know.

How old are these children now, or when you are considering "working longer for *their* lifestyle"? And until what age did you have in mind?

RM
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Fri May 10, 2019 4:56 pm

furnace wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:24 pm
DonIce wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:18 pm
At some point the bird has to leave the nest and fly on its own wings.
The sooner, the better for all involved.
I agree, but there’s nothing better than being able to help someone out.

We had two family members (not our kids, btw) need rehab. Having that available to them was worth a lot. The joy of seeing them healthy again is priceless.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Fri May 10, 2019 5:04 pm

There’s a thread active right now on “how much do you donate?” Most of the answers start at 10% and go much higher.

I was always taught that charity begins at home. I am proud that my kids launched well, and likely won’t need any financial help. But, why not have some dry powder just in case, for them or the numerous other family members who aren’t as lucky as we are?
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

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FIREchief
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by FIREchief » Fri May 10, 2019 5:10 pm

If you like your kids, and you can make a meaningful difference in their lives, than why not? I'm not talking about handouts to slackers. I'm talking about supplementing the finances of hard working, respectful adults who may not have had the same opportunities, same health, same "luck" or same natural talents as others. I'm obviously not a subscriber to the "hey, if I made it to FIRE okay than they can do it on their own as well." This world changes all the time and even people who work hard and play by the rules often wind up on the short end of the stick.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

MnD
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by MnD » Fri May 10, 2019 5:19 pm

Hell no.
I paid for their college and they were both off the Bank of Mom and Dad in that regard by age 22/23.
We retired right on plan/schedule in our mid-50's less than 12 months after the youngest was financially independent.
Retirement is finite and considerably shorter than the horizon that young adults kids have ahead of them.
The best thing I can do for my adult kids now is to let them build the life that they work and pay for.

stan1
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by stan1 » Fri May 10, 2019 5:38 pm

You know your wife better than we do. If this was my spouse I would consider her response and talk to her further to see if there were other reasons behind her statement. My experience with my spouse, who is retired, and with hundreds of people working for me over the years is that the decision on when to retire is often complex and multi-faceted. Sure some people go the day they are eligible but others stick around for a variety of reasons. Seldom is it just one and over time there is a progression towards being ready. Perhaps your wife has multiple reasons for still working.

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Miguelito
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by Miguelito » Fri May 10, 2019 6:07 pm

Just to be clear, our kids are approaching middle school age and we are in our 40's. The question was not based on present conditions. But we do have good jobs, and projections point to us being able to retire in our 50's if it came to that.

But given our non-affluent backgrounds, it seems wrong to turn down the opportunity to make good money that could help others (particularly our own children) if it's not unbearable to do so.

The idea is not to subsidize their lives. Certainly one of the best financial gifts we can give them is making sure we are never a burden to them. But as I alluded to in the examples I gave (college savings for their kids or help on a larger down payment), the help would not be of the ongoing kind, but rather a leg up of sorts.

My kids are too young to know what to expect, but there is no reason to think they will not be successful enough for us to not have to to worry about them. They are growing up with plenty of a leg up compared to most kids (and certainly compared to my wife and I growing up).
Last edited by Miguelito on Fri May 10, 2019 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JBTX
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by JBTX » Fri May 10, 2019 6:11 pm

Adult kids will be a factor for how long we work, but one is special needs and likely won't work a regular job, and the other has some psych issues.

delamer
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by delamer » Fri May 10, 2019 6:19 pm

Miguelito wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 6:07 pm
Just to be clear, our kids are approaching middle school age and we are in our 40's. The question was not based on present conditions. But we do have good jobs, and projections point to us being able to retire in our 50's if it came to that.

But given our non-affluent backgrounds, it seems wrong to turn down the opportunity to make good money that could help others (particularly our own children) if it's not unbearable to do so.

The idea is not to subsidize their lives. Certainly one of the best financial gifts we can give them is making sure we are never a burden to them. But as I alluded to in the examples I gave (college savings for their kids or help on a larger down payment), the help would not be of the ongoing kind, but rather a leg up of sorts.

My kids are too young to know what to expect, but there is no reason to think they will not be successful enough for us to not have to to worry about them. They are growing up with plenty of a leg up compared to most kids (and certainly compared to my wife and I growing up).
If you have a specific goal in mind — like paying for undergrad or providing a house downpayment, as you mentioned — then it is reasonable to continue working on the circumstances that you describe.

Or if your child, their spouse, or grandchild has a disability/medical condition that limits income or is expensive.

But not to provide a continuous income subsidy to a healthy child.

flyingaway
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by flyingaway » Fri May 10, 2019 6:27 pm

Children just make one more year more meaningful.

bampf
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by bampf » Fri May 10, 2019 6:37 pm

RadAudit wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:44 pm
I was employed until the kids were out of school, college debt free and employed. I was 63. I retired.

Looking back, I've come to an understanding that I can't live their lives for them or provide them with enough money so they can live like they'd want to live and take care of DW, too. Working several more years would not change those facts or materially alter their circumstances.

So, my vote is no.

Edit I'm not even sure extra money would improve their decision making or prevent them from essentially ending up where they are now. It may even ultimately deprive them of the satisfaction of making their own way in life.
I think I agree with this. They need enough to launch. Not to do whatever they want, but enough so they aren't crippled by debt or deprived because they work a low end desperate and awful job. They need enough. I don't know what enough is, but, it is more than I had. There is a visceral satisfaction from making your own way in this world and I wouldn't want to take that from anyone.

veindoc
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by veindoc » Fri May 10, 2019 6:43 pm

Miguelito wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:08 pm
I know many aim for hitting their number as quickly as possible. I'm not necessarily talking about FIRE, just being able to retire sooner than SSA implies/expects.

The question is, assuming you could retire earlier but you don't hate your job and are able to continue to do it and generate high income, and assuming higher education is accounted for, do you worry about setting up your grown children financially?

As an example, if working until 61 instead of 58 would buy you a bit more peace of mind in retirement, but realistically (barring something crazy) just amounts to more money for your children, would you retire 3 years later?

I suppose it can depend on the children's ability to sustain themselves financially, but if you sense that they may not have the ability to generate high enough income to live the life they and you would like them to live, would you keep going a bit longer? I'm not talking opulence here, rather things like affording a better neighborhood/school system or helping grandchildren with college savings, etc.
This thread makes me think of my dad. My siblings and I are in our 40’s and we are all doing well. My father in his 70’s continues to work. He enjoys himself with lavish vacations and fine meals which he pays for solely on cash flow. In fact he lives paycheck to paycheck yet he easily has 4 million worth of home equity from various properties and an equivalent amount in the bank. He works simply to maintain his lush semi retirement lifestyle BECAUSE he is leaving his savings for us - middle aged kids who are all millionaires in their own right.

I think it’s preposterous. I hate that he has a 45 minute commute to work. I hate that he drives in heavy traffic with cataracts he doesn’t want surgery for. I would love for him to get an apartment right downtown in NYC that he has dreaming about for decades which he could easily do by selling off these homes he has. But he doesn’t do any of those things because he is saving them for “us”. He could easily pack it up at work and live off the fruits of his labor and he is so entitled to it. He is the epitome of delayed gratification.

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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Fri May 10, 2019 6:47 pm

I would do it in my 30s, 40s, or even 50s, but I definitely won’t do it after age 60. But I know my siblings are working in their early 60s to help their kids. Their kids are not self sufficient yet, still a drain to their savings if they don’t work. Healthcare is not a problem. Plus the young wife is too young to retire, she has strong work ethics, only 53, he is 60.

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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by decapod10 » Fri May 10, 2019 7:00 pm

Miguelito wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 6:07 pm
Just to be clear, our kids are approaching middle school age and we are in our 40's. The question was not based on present conditions. But we do have good jobs, and projections point to us being able to retire in our 50's if it came to that.

But given our non-affluent backgrounds, it seems wrong to turn down the opportunity to make good money that could help others (particularly our own children) if it's not unbearable to do so.

The idea is not to subsidize their lives. Certainly one of the best financial gifts we can give them is making sure we are never a burden to them. But as I alluded to in the examples I gave (college savings for their kids or help on a larger down payment), the help would not be of the ongoing kind, but rather a leg up of sorts.

My kids are too young to know what to expect, but there is no reason to think they will not be successful enough for us to not have to to worry about them. They are growing up with plenty of a leg up compared to most kids (and certainly compared to my wife and I growing up).
I think you will probably get a hundred different answers and I don't think there is a correct one, but I think it boils down to a couple factors:

1. How much of a burden is work on you?
- This may change depending on your age.

2. What are the chances that your kids will struggle financially based on what you know about them?

3. How do you feel morally about supporting your kids?
- Some people feel very strongly that their children should be independent with as little help possible, other people are happy to give their kids a trust fund so they never have to work.

4. If your kids are struggling and you won't/can't help them, how much will it bother you?
- I think this is a big one. It's one thing to say you won't help them if they are struggling, it's another to actually do it when it happens. Some people have no problem with it and will stick to their guns. Other people will say they will cut their kids loose, but just can't handle seeing their kids struggling financially, so they will ultimately pitch in. If you won't be able to sleep at night seeing your kids that way, then you probably need to just work extra to make sure you have the resources to help if needed. Sort of like risk tolerance, you know? Lots of people say they have high risk tolerance and go 100% stocks. Not all of them will stick to their guns when the market starts crashing, but some of them will. It's best to be honest with yourself and plan accordingly.

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Fri May 10, 2019 7:21 pm

This is more an underlying philosophy than parenting advice, whatever the expression adult children may mean.

Pick them up. Carry them to the deep part of the swamp. Poke the alligators with sticks. Toss them in.

With any luck they'll already have jumped in without you carrying them.

PJW

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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by stoptothink » Fri May 10, 2019 7:59 pm

Miguelito wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 6:07 pm
Just to be clear, our kids are approaching middle school age and we are in our 40's. The question was not based on present conditions. But we do have good jobs, and projections point to us being able to retire in our 50's if it came to that.

But given our non-affluent backgrounds, it seems wrong to turn down the opportunity to make good money that could help others (particularly our own children) if it's not unbearable to do so.

The idea is not to subsidize their lives. Certainly one of the best financial gifts we can give them is making sure we are never a burden to them. But as I alluded to in the examples I gave (college savings for their kids or help on a larger down payment), the help would not be of the ongoing kind, but rather a leg up of sorts.

My kids are too young to know what to expect, but there is no reason to think they will not be successful enough for us to not have to to worry about them. They are growing up with plenty of a leg up compared to most kids (and certainly compared to my wife and I growing up).
Similar sentiment. We're currently 38 and 33, kids are 7 and 4. We'll probably be in a position to FIRE with little risk in ~7yrs, but we have no plans of retiring probably for another decade. We both find our careers fulfilling and we'd like to give a little more to the kids. We both grew up well below the poverty line and live way below our means now, kids will have no clue that we have much of anything, so I don't feel like we are doing them a disservice. If all goes to plan, they'll be sufficiently "launched" before they start seeing the benefits of our hard work.

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gasdoc
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by gasdoc » Sat May 11, 2019 7:25 am

If DD gets into medical school, I will work a bit longer to help her pay for it.

gasdoc

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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by tibbitts » Sat May 11, 2019 7:43 am

It partly depends on the job. I have a good job, but I start and end every day angry and frustrated from the ever-worsening commute, and I get 18 annual vacation days. I want more then 18 days/yr to do other things. Physically I've had issues develop over the past few years that have limited some of the things I can do and that probably won't improve as time goes on.

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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by SGM » Sat May 11, 2019 7:53 am

The research I have seen shows that many retirees gift to their grown children. I continued to work after I was financially independent, but only while I enjoyed the work. I was able to cut back my hours quite a bit so free time wasn't an issue. My kids are financially well off so it is not a worry.

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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by goblue100 » Sat May 11, 2019 7:56 am

For me it's not as cut and dried as you make it sound in your question. I've had the thought that by continuing to work I'm just making a larger estate for my daughter (25, married, and "launched"). However, I could be protecting myself from some unexpected downturn in fortune as well. I make better money than she probably ever will, so I don't mind too much. I don't have so much money that I'm protected from long term care disasters, for example, but a 4% withdrawal would be enough for my wife and I.
Financial planners are savers. They want us to be 95 percent confident we can finance a 30-year retirement even though there is an 82 percent probability of being dead by then. - Scott Burns

rashad3000
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by rashad3000 » Sat May 11, 2019 8:02 am

At what age are we expected to finally let our children become independent?

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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by smitcat » Sat May 11, 2019 8:11 am

Miguelito wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:08 pm
I know many aim for hitting their number as quickly as possible. I'm not necessarily talking about FIRE, just being able to retire sooner than SSA implies/expects.

The question is, assuming you could retire earlier but you don't hate your job and are able to continue to do it and generate high income, and assuming higher education is accounted for, do you worry about setting up your grown children financially?

As an example, if working until 61 instead of 58 would buy you a bit more peace of mind in retirement, but realistically (barring something crazy) just amounts to more money for your children, would you retire 3 years later?

I suppose it can depend on the children's ability to sustain themselves financially, but if you sense that they may not have the ability to generate high enough income to live the life they and you would like them to live, would you keep going a bit longer? I'm not talking opulence here, rather things like affording a better neighborhood/school system or helping grandchildren with college savings, etc.
"The question is, assuming you could retire earlier but you don't hate your job and are able to continue to do it and generate high income, and assuming higher education is accounted for, do you worry about setting up your grown children financially?"
our thoughts:
- we like what we do
- 'working' longer does not really affect our lives
- we have been able to help our parents
- daughter is well equipped to survive/thrive
But by 'working' a bit longer we are able to secure funds that our daughter would not be able to do - and generally does not know about.
We can save at 20-25X her rate at this point , just too easy to work that ratio for a bit of time.
Downside - insignificant
Upside - very high

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Sandtrap
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by Sandtrap » Sat May 11, 2019 8:19 am

Miguelito wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:08 pm
I know many aim for hitting their number as quickly as possible. I'm not necessarily talking about FIRE, just being able to retire sooner than SSA implies/expects.

The question is, assuming you could retire earlier but you don't hate your job and are able to continue to do it and generate high income, and assuming higher education is accounted for, do you worry about setting up your grown children financially?

As an example, if working until 61 instead of 58 would buy you a bit more peace of mind in retirement, but realistically (barring something crazy) just amounts to more money for your children, would you retire 3 years later?

I suppose it can depend on the children's ability to sustain themselves financially, but if you sense that they may not have the ability to generate high enough income to live the life they and you would like them to live, would you keep going a bit longer? I'm not talking opulence here, rather things like affording a better neighborhood/school system or helping grandchildren with college savings, etc.
Based on your own (and spouse) personal ideals, value system, and sense of personal accomplishment, how much long term personal (non spreadsheet) gratification will you derive from leaving a largery legacy to your children (also based on their needs and what is best for them (more $$$ may not be best for them)?

Only each parent can answer this after deep contemplation.
(also proper estate planning considerations)

OTOH: A larger estate provides a cushion for life's personal and financial "black swans" should that happen to parents, or heirs.
Last edited by Sandtrap on Sat May 11, 2019 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sandtrap
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by Sandtrap » Sat May 11, 2019 8:57 am

celia wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:52 pm
Even though there is no "right answer", I wonder if OP is thinking of working longer only because he doesn't know what else to do. I hope he has some goals, such as traveling, hobbies, volunteering, learning new things.

In other words, don't work until the day you die. . . That would be so sad. :(

You saved up for retirement and should have some time to enjoy it.
Many of my relatives, and parents, did this. Though, they seemed content with it and enjoyed what they were doing. For some, it's a fullfilling thing, for others, not so.
Perhaps it also depends on what one is doing, and if its kept in balance with other things.
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FBN2014
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by FBN2014 » Sat May 11, 2019 9:13 am

I would leverage their inheritance by buying life insurance.
"October is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May March, June, December, August and February." - M. Twain

smitcat
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by smitcat » Sat May 11, 2019 9:16 am

FBN2014 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:13 am
I would leverage their inheritance by buying life insurance.
How would the numbers look for life insurance taken at 58+?

FBN2014
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by FBN2014 » Sat May 11, 2019 9:32 am

smitcat wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:16 am
FBN2014 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:13 am
I would leverage their inheritance by buying life insurance.
How would the numbers look for life insurance taken at 58+?
Here's a quote engine I found for various types of term and permanent insurance. https://donboozer.com/3-2/
"October is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May March, June, December, August and February." - M. Twain

smitcat
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by smitcat » Sat May 11, 2019 9:49 am

FBN2014 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:32 am
smitcat wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:16 am
FBN2014 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:13 am
I would leverage their inheritance by buying life insurance.
How would the numbers look for life insurance taken at 58+?
Here's a quote engine I found for various types of term and permanent insurance. https://donboozer.com/3-2/
I was asking what your numbers look like for leveraging the future inheritance.
What age, what premiums, what expected payouts and at what length of time?
Unless your post was just anecdotal and I misread it….

FBN2014
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by FBN2014 » Sat May 11, 2019 10:00 am

smitcat wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:49 am
FBN2014 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:32 am
smitcat wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:16 am
FBN2014 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:13 am
I would leverage their inheritance by buying life insurance.
How would the numbers look for life insurance taken at 58+?
Here's a quote engine I found for various types of term and permanent insurance. https://donboozer.com/3-2/
I was asking what your numbers look like for leveraging the future inheritance.
What age, what premiums, what expected payouts and at what length of time?
Unless your post was just anecdotal and I misread it….
I was directing my comment to the OP, so just anecdotal. But at 58+ I believe it is best to go with a guaranteed UL policy where the cash value is minimized but coverage goes to age 100+.
"October is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May March, June, December, August and February." - M. Twain

staustin
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by staustin » Sat May 11, 2019 10:08 am

most interested in this dialogue. The DW and i have this conversation almost weekly. She enjoys her job and plans to continue working for many years. After a 25+ year career, i'm completely burned out, despising the commute, and counting the days to retiring early. Two kids out of the house, one remains with a final year of high school ahead. We've no debt and $2MM+ mostly liquid net worth. I have languages to learn, a handicap to lower and countries to visit yet want to also assist my children to a reasonable degree. I'm finding the change in identity challenging as well. Facing making a real decision has become very difficult. As someone else noted previously it's intensely personal.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat May 11, 2019 10:33 am

rashad3000 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 8:02 am
At what age are we expected to finally let our children become independent?
They say “30 is the new 18.” :D :oops:
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

RadAudit
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by RadAudit » Sat May 11, 2019 10:36 am

rashad3000 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 8:02 am
At what age are we expected to finally let our children become independent?
Excellent question.

A related question may be how many "what ifs" in their lives do you have to plan on bailing them out of?
They say “30 is the new 18.”
If only. :happy
FI is the best revenge. LBYM. Invest the rest. Stay the course. - PS: The cavalry isn't coming, kids. You are on your own.

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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by stoptothink » Sat May 11, 2019 10:38 am

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 10:33 am
rashad3000 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 8:02 am
At what age are we expected to finally let our children become independent?
They say “30 is the new 18.” :D :oops:
Many of my friends, cousins, and neighbors are still to some extent financially dependent on their parents - including several who are married with kids living with their parents and not financially helping at all (1 SIL, 1 BIL, several cousins) - and I'm 38...so maybe 35?

RadAudit
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by RadAudit » Sat May 11, 2019 10:44 am

stoptothink wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 10:38 am
Many of my friends, cousins, and neighbors are still to some extent financially dependent on their parents - including several who are married with kids living with their parents and not financially helping at all
Anyone else beginning to think this whole thing may be going a tad too far? Not that I may not end up with the same problems - but how do you draw the line and when? For their own good as well as your own?
FI is the best revenge. LBYM. Invest the rest. Stay the course. - PS: The cavalry isn't coming, kids. You are on your own.

rj342
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by rj342 » Sat May 11, 2019 10:49 am

I'm not there yet. Son is 20 in college, we are 54 and 52 and not in as great a shape as most are here. Have thought about this some as we could both be retired from full time work by 62, prob 59 1/2, and poss sooner in that if cant work for some reason, not catastrophic. I think the books Millionaire Next Door and Die Broke both have some useful things to say on the subject plus my own

1. Handing out money left and right to keep them punching above their weight lifestyle in general is a terrible idea, same for being too ready to bail them out of a tight money spot of their own making. You are breeding dependence and irresponsibilty, which will carry down to grandchildren.
2. That said, careful gifts here and there might help them be more secure for the long haul: some money to advance date student loans paid off (NOT make the monthly pmt for them). More reasonable if they didnt go to an expensive school but you could not help up front as much as you would have liked (my case). Or maybe some money for a bigger down payment on a first home, but only one they could properly afford without your help (goal to have smaller payments, not get more house). Or jumpstart a 529 for grandkids when born. Die Broke talks about using some of your money (assuming youre situation sound) to help while youre still alive, and you could enjoy giving, rather than create a windfall for them after your death, long after the times it would have helped most. Maybe do those last two only as a match to what they put in themselves.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by Sandtrap » Sat May 11, 2019 10:49 am

RadAudit wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 10:44 am
stoptothink wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 10:38 am
Many of my friends, cousins, and neighbors are still to some extent financially dependent on their parents - including several who are married with kids living with their parents and not financially helping at all
Anyone else beginning to think this whole thing may be going a tad too far? Not that I may not end up with the same problems - but how do you draw the line and when? For their own good as well as your own?
One real life example of parents working to benefit their very adult children and the potential repercussions of it:

Parents: age 75, reasonable pensions, one parent continues to work.

Recently sold home due to massive HELOC and credit balances due to "loans" (unrepaid) to their children.

Forced downsize to renting a townhouse. Debt largely paid off. But, patterns of financial codependency continue.

OP: something to be gained from real life scenarios. Anything can happen.
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat May 11, 2019 10:51 am

stoptothink wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 10:38 am
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 10:33 am
rashad3000 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 8:02 am
At what age are we expected to finally let our children become independent?
They say “30 is the new 18.” :D :oops:
Many of my friends, cousins, and neighbors are still to some extent financially dependent on their parents - including several who are married with kids living with their parents and not financially helping at all (1 SIL, 1 BIL, several cousins) - and I'm 38...so maybe 35?
A couple of steps removed, but there is one “adult child” at 40+ that hasn’t supported himself fully yet for more than a few months at a time. Not directly our responsibility, but we would feel some pressure to help because of his two kids.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

stoptothink
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by stoptothink » Sat May 11, 2019 10:56 am

RadAudit wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 10:44 am
stoptothink wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 10:38 am
Many of my friends, cousins, and neighbors are still to some extent financially dependent on their parents - including several who are married with kids living with their parents and not financially helping at all
Anyone else beginning to think this whole thing may be going a tad too far? Not that I may not end up with the same problems - but how do you draw the line and when? For their own good as well as your own?
If my kids decided to start a family of their own before they can support that family on their own, they are "on their own". That's pretty much where I draw the line. It's very common in my area/culture, to get married very young and start having kids and with no plan; I don't support that, period.

Living so far below our means is in part so that our children do not know we have anything. We don't do without, but we live a more simple (cheaper) life than most of our peers that have much less resources. Hopefully by the time they begin reaping the rewards of our hard work, they will still have no idea that we've been successful. We've got a good 20yrs to go.

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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by Nowizard » Sat May 11, 2019 11:03 am

This is a personal decision, as others have mentioned. A key is what you would do with extra time. Presumably, a goal is not to simply accumulate but to lead a life of fulfillment. That does include finances but has much to do with our own psychology. If you enjoy work and the benefits from it in multiple areas, then you have a choice to work or not regardless of your children. If enabling their future life also enables yours, go for it. If your job is affecting you in terms of stress and health, and you have a choice to retire, then do so. Your children are more likely to want you to be around as long as possible as a first choice. We ask ourselves a simple question or three in regard to giving to our adult children: 1. Is it something they really need?, 2. Are they doing what they can to achieve their goal, and is their frustration realistic or simply wanting what they want right now?, 3. Will we enjoy or resent fulfilling their desire?

Tim
Last edited by Nowizard on Sat May 11, 2019 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

smitcat
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Re: Continue working for benefit of adult children or retiring earlier?

Post by smitcat » Sat May 11, 2019 11:03 am

FBN2014 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 10:00 am
smitcat wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:49 am
FBN2014 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:32 am
smitcat wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:16 am
FBN2014 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:13 am
I would leverage their inheritance by buying life insurance.
How would the numbers look for life insurance taken at 58+?
Here's a quote engine I found for various types of term and permanent insurance. https://donboozer.com/3-2/
I was asking what your numbers look like for leveraging the future inheritance.
What age, what premiums, what expected payouts and at what length of time?
Unless your post was just anecdotal and I misread it….
I was directing my comment to the OP, so just anecdotal. But at 58+ I believe it is best to go with a guaranteed UL policy where the cash value is minimized but coverage goes to age 100+.
OK - but the numbers for a 58 year old do not seem to be attractive for this purpose.

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