Walk away from my auto lease?

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randomguy
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by randomguy » Wed May 08, 2019 1:03 am

FrugalInvestor wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:23 am
boglerocks wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 4:45 pm
I did not abuse it. I've been fighting this but I don't want to go to court and I'm getting nervous about my credit. I don't know what else to do. I'm trying to be practical.
On what basis are they claiming that you abused the transmission? Do they have some sort of physical indication that they're pointing to?
They probably have computer logs showing abusive behavior. But we are left guessing since the OP isn’t giving any details. Heck I am not even sure what is actually broken besides the clutch. There is a chance you just hit a crappy dealer but this is one of those stories where you have a feeling the other side might be interesting to hear. Most dealers are more than willing to do repairs if they think they will get paid. They clearly think there is a chance the maker will not approve it.

emanuel_v19
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by emanuel_v19 » Wed May 08, 2019 1:10 am

I'm sorry, but the fact you keep saying "exploded' and can't seem to tell us the make/model, for whatever the reason, is annoying. Maybe I'm just bothered why people still insist on helping you, and yet, you can't share all the information for everyone to help you. Amazing.

Thesaints
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by Thesaints » Wed May 08, 2019 1:59 am

emanuel_v19 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:10 am
I'm sorry, but the fact you keep saying "exploded' and can't seem to tell us the make/model,
A car bomb, perhaps ?

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8foot7
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by 8foot7 » Wed May 08, 2019 5:33 am

This sounds like a very much higher end car which probably explains the reluctance to post make/model. No one could identify the driver of yet another Mustang or Mazda, but a Lambo or a Maserati does narrow the pool of potential drivers significantly. also explains the shorter lease.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Wed May 08, 2019 7:59 am

eugenem wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:04 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 5:07 pm
OP, was your vehicle an Acura MDX SUV?
I'm guessing this was a 2016-2018 MDX with the ZF-9 automatic transmission? Acura had some issues with those transmissions. There are a number of TSBs, ranging from issues with chirps during shifts, poor shift quality, and a defective transmission fluid warmer.

Agree with many of the other posts. The make and model of the vehicle would help, as some vehicles are known for transmission issues and there may be applicable service bulletins. Even if the OP does not list the make/model, suggest that they check web forums for that vehicle to see if anything applies. Perhaps they are not the first to encounter the issue.
Yep, 2018 Acura MDX SUV.

Broken Man 1999
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onourway
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by onourway » Wed May 08, 2019 8:11 am

An Acura SUV is not going to have a manual transmission folks...

dknightd
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by dknightd » Wed May 08, 2019 9:06 am

finite_difference wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 11:51 pm
If you didn’t abuse the car, I would fight it tooth and nail.
I agree. But keep the fight civil - yelling never helps. Polite phone calls (better done in person if you have the time), followed up with polite letters.
I made the mistake once of talking loudly to a service manager when I was frustrated. Which was out of character for me, but I was upset. I had to go back and apologize for my behavior. Then I got what I wanted, and was clearly entitled to. Lesson learned.

If I thought I might have done something abusive I'd pay for the repair.
Frankly if a clutch and transmission both went bad in 5K miles then I would have either been abusing the car, a lot, or it was not made for my use, or it was defective. Or all three.

No matter what I'd keep up with the lease payments. Or at least ask about what the options were for returning the car early with mechanical problems.

stoptothink
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by stoptothink » Wed May 08, 2019 9:55 am

onourway wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 8:11 am
An Acura SUV is not going to have a manual transmission folks...
And OP already said it wasn't an Acura. I'm not sure why that guess keeps coming up, it is hardly the only car that has known transmission issues.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed May 08, 2019 9:59 am

Maserati Quattroporte. The dual clutch automatic works like an automatically shifted manual. If the clutches are not clearanced perfectly, they eat themselves. If a non-Maserati shop replaces the clutches without the factory alignment machine, it's common for the clutches to not make it past 100 miles before eating themselves. Maserati will do any kind of lease you want. You want 23 months, 3 days and 7 hours with 1,251 miles per month....they'll do it.

The guess on the other end of the scale is a ford focus. The dual clutch auto in that is legendary for multiple failure points. But most result in the car being shut down and you being left on the side of the road with a car that won't move. So probably not that.
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Leesbro63
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by Leesbro63 » Wed May 08, 2019 10:04 am

There HAS to be more to this story. Bottom line is that manufacturers don't just abandon warranty car owners with bad transmissions. (And even if they do, that's why we have lemon laws.) And a car lease is just a financing tool, due and payable regardless of any dispute with the manufacturer about a quality problem. Refusing to pay your lease is cutting your nose to spite your face. Good luck with that.

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boglerocks
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by boglerocks » Wed May 08, 2019 10:36 am

FrugalInvestor wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:23 am
On what basis are they claiming that you abused the transmission? Do they have some sort of physical indication that they're pointing to?
It think it's the worn out clutch. They didn't say that specifically but seemed to indicate it. Will a worn out clutch cause a transmission to fail?

Also thank you to everyone here for trying to help me. Many great suggestions but sadly I think I was hoping for a silver bullet which doesn't seem to exist. I don't want to go to court.

dknightd
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by dknightd » Wed May 08, 2019 10:38 am

finite_difference wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 11:51 pm
If you didn’t abuse the car, I would fight it tooth and nail.
I agree. But keep the fight civil - yelling never helps. Polite phone calls (better done in person if you have the time), followed up with polite letters.
I made the mistake once of talking loudly to a service manager when I was frustrated. Which was out of character for me, but I was upset. I had to go back and apologize for my behavior. Then I got what I wanted, and was clearly entitled to. Lesson learned.

If I thought I might have done something abusive I'd pay for the repair.
Frankly if a clutch and transmission both went bad in 5K miles then I would have either been abusing the car, a lot, or it was not made for my use, or it was defective. Or all three.

No matter what I'd keep up with the lease payments. Or at least ask about what the options were for returning the car early with mechanical problems.

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boglerocks
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by boglerocks » Wed May 08, 2019 10:38 am

randomguy wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:03 am
Heck I am not even sure what is actually broken besides the clutch. There is a chance you just hit a crappy dealer but this is one of those stories where you have a feeling the other side might be interesting to hear. Most dealers are more than willing to do repairs if they think they will get paid. They clearly think there is a chance the maker will not approve it.
The transmission is broken and the clutch is worn out. The dealer sent photos of everything to the maker and the maker denied the warranty claim.

onourway
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by onourway » Wed May 08, 2019 10:45 am

boglerocks wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:38 am
randomguy wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:03 am
Heck I am not even sure what is actually broken besides the clutch. There is a chance you just hit a crappy dealer but this is one of those stories where you have a feeling the other side might be interesting to hear. Most dealers are more than willing to do repairs if they think they will get paid. They clearly think there is a chance the maker will not approve it.
The transmission is broken and the clutch is worn out. The dealer sent photos of everything to the maker and the maker denied the warranty claim.
If the clutch was worn out in 5000 miles, that's pretty solid evidence that the transmission was abused. Did you actually see the clutch and/or these pictures yourself? Was the pad material simply worn out or was there sign of material failure? If it was simply worn, I think you are SOL and probably need to consider you may not be so careful as you think. If it failed, that could, potentially, be the cause of the transmission failure, and I'd think you'd have at least some leg to stand on in making your claim.

Thesaints
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by Thesaints » Wed May 08, 2019 10:46 am

I guess their rationale is that since the clutch is worn after only 5,000 miles, the driver did not respect the new car operating envelope, thus voiding the warranty.
Now, I’ve heard of clutches wearing so fast in F1 cars and main battle tanks, but never in street cars. That would point to a defective one, or egregious mishandling.

TN_Boy
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by TN_Boy » Wed May 08, 2019 11:09 am

boglerocks wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:38 am
randomguy wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:03 am
Heck I am not even sure what is actually broken besides the clutch. There is a chance you just hit a crappy dealer but this is one of those stories where you have a feeling the other side might be interesting to hear. Most dealers are more than willing to do repairs if they think they will get paid. They clearly think there is a chance the maker will not approve it.
The transmission is broken and the clutch is worn out. The dealer sent photos of everything to the maker and the maker denied the warranty claim.
In addition to a worn out clutch, you say the transmission is "broken" or "exploded."

What does that mean?? Broken how?

I'm not particularly savvy on car internals*, but if my car stopped working after 5k miles and the dealer told me it will cost $5,000 to fix, then I would get a detailed understanding of exactly what they think is wrong. Then when I try to get the manufacturer to pay for it, or ask for advice on an internet forum, I have the facts I need to make my case.

From what you've said, I certainly assume you abused the car -- a burned out clutch after 5k miles is unusual. And the "exploded" transmission, whatever that means. For example, did you throw the car into 1st while backing up fast (rather than coming to a complete stop and then shifting).

*but I have friends who are whose help I would enlist ....

ncbill
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by ncbill » Wed May 08, 2019 11:48 am

boglerocks wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:38 am
randomguy wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:03 am
Heck I am not even sure what is actually broken besides the clutch. There is a chance you just hit a crappy dealer but this is one of those stories where you have a feeling the other side might be interesting to hear. Most dealers are more than willing to do repairs if they think they will get paid. They clearly think there is a chance the maker will not approve it.
The transmission is broken and the clutch is worn out. The dealer sent photos of everything to the maker and the maker denied the warranty claim.
1. escalate to the regional manager, escalate further if you get no satisfaction from them.

2. go online to forums for whatever make/model it is and see if others have had the same problem and how they resolved it with the local dealer/regional manager/company HQ

You may not get offered a full free replacement, but they might meet you halfway on the cost, which would be cheaper than walking away.

I wouldn't walk away...worst case I'd go ahead & pay the $5,000 and turn around and file against the local dealer in small claims.

ciscovp
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by ciscovp » Wed May 08, 2019 12:00 pm

Simply go to the online forum for your make and model. There are experts on the route to take on repairing your car.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed May 08, 2019 12:18 pm

Hmmmm. I think it would be worthwhile to get the facts on what exactly is wrong and ask an independent mechanic what they think.

Drag racing my Cobra kit car 10 years ago (on the track), I mis-shifted and hit 1st instead of third. Instantly vaporized the clutch (how they're designed to protect the trans and engine). I pulled it apart and it was like it was full of mouse fur. Transmission was absolutely fine. Flywheel was absolutely fine. I replaced the clutch disk for $31 and did the 6 hours of work leisurely and was back and running. This was a Ford T-5 transmission and a 302 engine with minor performance modifications.
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alter
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by alter » Wed May 08, 2019 12:24 pm

OP, it sounds like you will have to pay, and especially so because the company has nothing to fear from any kind of repercussions from it, even if it wasn't your fault, simply because you wont post the make and model online and let people know the company that did this to you.

Miguelito
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by Miguelito » Wed May 08, 2019 12:53 pm

I hate to pass judgement on situations without knowing all the details, buy as others have said, this doesn't pass the smell test.

The fact that it appears it's a manual transmission where the clutch is burned out (at 5k miles!) but the OP is talking about how the transmission needs to be replaced just reeks of someone who doesn't know much about manual transmissions.

It's quite easy to destroy your engine with a money shift. It's also quite easy to mechanically abuse a manual transmission.

Dealers get paid to fix cars under warranty. It is not in their best interest to deny claims when they are legitimate. They will often go to bat for you with corporate to approve a questionable repair for those same reasons (as well as ingratiate themselves with a new car buyer). So for them to deny this, it must have pretty clear evidence of abuse.

Until we hear more details, I don't see how anyone can draw any more conclusions. For now, Occam's Razor says the OP mistreated the vehicle causing premature wear and/or damage not covered by the warranty.

Also, I don't see a scenario where you just walk away from a contract (lease) like that. It would be a piece of cake to enforce. Any car manufacturer/leasing company with a half-decent lawyer would have drafted said contract such that there are provisions where the lessee agrees to maintain the car, take care of it, and use it in ways that are expected or normal for passenger cars on the road, etc.

grylex
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by grylex » Wed May 08, 2019 12:53 pm

ncbill wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 11:48 am
boglerocks wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:38 am
randomguy wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:03 am
Heck I am not even sure what is actually broken besides the clutch. There is a chance you just hit a crappy dealer but this is one of those stories where you have a feeling the other side might be interesting to hear. Most dealers are more than willing to do repairs if they think they will get paid. They clearly think there is a chance the maker will not approve it.
The transmission is broken and the clutch is worn out. The dealer sent photos of everything to the maker and the maker denied the warranty claim.
1. escalate to the regional manager, escalate further if you get no satisfaction from them.

2. go online to forums for whatever make/model it is and see if others have had the same problem and how they resolved it with the local dealer/regional manager/company HQ

You may not get offered a full free replacement, but they might meet you halfway on the cost, which would be cheaper than walking away.

I wouldn't walk away...worst case I'd go ahead & pay the $5,000 and turn around and file against the local dealer in small claims.
It nothing has to do with dealer as “maker denied the warranty claim”. Dealer will not spend own money on this.

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meowcat
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by meowcat » Wed May 08, 2019 12:57 pm

If the OP is honest in that the clutch/transmission has not been abused, it has to be a Honda product. I've had 13 honda's (4 of them new) and Honda is the only manufacturer that I'm aware of that will find any excuse not to repair a car under warranty. It's ALWAYS the driver's fault.
More people should learn to tell their dollars where to go instead of asking them where they went. | -Roger Babson

gronkman
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by gronkman » Wed May 08, 2019 1:24 pm

boglerocks wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 4:33 pm
I'm sorry but I'm not going to post the make and model.

I don't want to turn this into my life's work so I think I'm going to start paying my lease again and pay for the transmission repair. It sounds like I'd be getting into a giant mess if I do anything else.

EDIT: Maybe pay the lease, repair the transmission, and try for some low hanging fruit after the fact that might get them to reimburse me?
Sorry, but the mystery of this + a manufacturer not honoring a transmission warranty claim sounds very fishy. I suspect we're not being told the truth here by the OP. My guess is the manufacturer has proof of misuse or there's additional info being omitted.

P.S. Why do you think a financial investing forum is the correct place to seek advice for this issue? You would be better served on 3rd party auto make forums.

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boglerocks
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by boglerocks » Wed May 08, 2019 1:34 pm

This forum is explicitly not about investing.

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snackdog
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by snackdog » Wed May 08, 2019 2:00 pm

If you were in a situation in traffic involving a steep incline with stop-and-go traffic, this could wear the clutch pretty quickly (especially on a Porsche, Ferrari or Lambo). Or if your daily driving involves a lot of hills with stop-and-go (e.g. SF or LA hills).

Breaking the transmission is a lot harder, however, and requires abuse.

Thesaints
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by Thesaints » Wed May 08, 2019 2:04 pm

snackdog wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:00 pm
If you were in a situation in traffic involving a steep incline with stop-and-go traffic, this could wear the clutch pretty quickly (especially on a Porsche, Ferrari or Lambo). Or if your daily driving involves a lot of hills with stop-and-go (e.g. SF or LA hills).
Maybe, but not as in 5,000 miles quickly. I've never had to replace a clutch on any of my BMW (knocking on wood) hills, traffic and driving sporty notwithstanding.

TN_Boy
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by TN_Boy » Wed May 08, 2019 2:37 pm

gronkman wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:24 pm
boglerocks wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 4:33 pm
I'm sorry but I'm not going to post the make and model.

I don't want to turn this into my life's work so I think I'm going to start paying my lease again and pay for the transmission repair. It sounds like I'd be getting into a giant mess if I do anything else.

EDIT: Maybe pay the lease, repair the transmission, and try for some low hanging fruit after the fact that might get them to reimburse me?
Sorry, but the mystery of this + a manufacturer not honoring a transmission warranty claim sounds very fishy. I suspect we're not being told the truth here by the OP. My guess is the manufacturer has proof of misuse or there's additional info being omitted.

P.S. Why do you think a financial investing forum is the correct place to seek advice for this issue? You would be better served on 3rd party auto make forums.
Consumer issues like this are quite common on bogleheads.org, and the post is appropriate.

Except that the OP isn't giving enough information out to let people help, and it wouldn't be possible to post on a 3rd party auto maker forum if you are unwilling to reveal what kind of car you have ..... or what is wrong with the car ......

Jags4186
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by Jags4186 » Wed May 08, 2019 2:47 pm

meowcat wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:57 pm
If the OP is honest in that the clutch/transmission has not been abused, it has to be a Honda product. I've had 13 honda's (4 of them new) and Honda is the only manufacturer that I'm aware of that will find any excuse not to repair a car under warranty. It's ALWAYS the driver's fault.
I wish there were an eye-roll emoji. If you found Honda to be such an awful product why would you have purchased 13 of them, including 4 new? Everyone has their own horror story. I had my with Volkswagen. The difference between you and me is I would not purchase a Volkswagen in the future. And that’s with Volkswagen doing everything in their power to assist me with my issues.

The situation here is very simple. The dealership plugged in their computer to the cars computer. The computer told them under what situation there was a catastrophic failure. They then looked at past information, how hard the engine has been pushed, how often the engine is redline, what the average rpm and throttle being used is, etc. After sending that information to the manufacturer the manufacturer is declining the repair under warranty. Dealerships WANT to make warranty repairs. They get paid directly from the manufacturer and are bonused on customer satisfaction. There is no reason for the dealership not to want to do everything in their power to help remedy things for the OP.

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meowcat
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by meowcat » Wed May 08, 2019 2:58 pm

^I love Honda's, always have. They've been extremely reliable for me. Plus, I work in the biz, so I get taken care of a bit. Just not too happy with their dealer network.
More people should learn to tell their dollars where to go instead of asking them where they went. | -Roger Babson

Topic Author
boglerocks
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by boglerocks » Wed May 08, 2019 3:33 pm

snackdog wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:00 pm
If you were in a situation in traffic involving a steep incline with stop-and-go traffic, this could wear the clutch pretty quickly (especially on a Porsche, Ferrari or Lambo). Or if your daily driving involves a lot of hills with stop-and-go (e.g. SF or LA hills).

Breaking the transmission is a lot harder, however, and requires abuse.
It's possible I'm not a great driver and wore the clutch out under the conditions I drive in but there's no way I directly caused the transmission to fail. But indirectly, can a worn out clutch cause a transmission to fail?

researcher
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by researcher » Wed May 08, 2019 3:42 pm

boglerocks wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:38 am
The transmission is broken and the clutch is worn out. The dealer sent photos of everything to the maker and the maker denied the warranty claim.
I'm guessing it is something along the lines of a Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio or maybe a Dodge Challenger Hellcat.

A vehicle that...
- Comes with a manual
- Has enough horsepower to damage a clutch/transmission within the first 5000 miles
- Isn't known to be particularly reliable
- A manufacturer (Fiat Chrysler) & dealers that don't have a great reputation
- Something you would be embarrassed to admit you own on the Bogleheads forum

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snackdog
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by snackdog » Wed May 08, 2019 3:52 pm

The things you do with your foot (clutch pedal) and hand (gear shift knob) can be hard on the clutch and/or the transmission gears/teeth. If one were to be reckless with the foot and hand, it could damage both.

Any event where the clutch is not full engaged or disengaged is hard on the clutch. Think hills, stop and go, ramps, driveways, drive-thrus, etc.

Any event where the transmission suddenly has a rapid change in load is hard on the gears. Big down shifts (e.g 3rd to 1st at 40 mph). Mis-down-shifts (e.g. 4th to 1st instead of 3rd at speed) or reverse shifts (e.g 1st to reverse without making a full stop).

These can be combined as well. Not fully depressing the clutch when changing gears can be tough on the clutch and the gears.

Some diagnostics for clutch wear - smell of smoke or visible smoke. Car not moving as expected despite engine revving.

Diagnostics for transmission wear - grinding or any unusual mechanical sounds from the transmission.

Thesaints
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by Thesaints » Wed May 08, 2019 4:22 pm

boglerocks wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:33 pm
snackdog wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:00 pm
If you were in a situation in traffic involving a steep incline with stop-and-go traffic, this could wear the clutch pretty quickly (especially on a Porsche, Ferrari or Lambo). Or if your daily driving involves a lot of hills with stop-and-go (e.g. SF or LA hills).

Breaking the transmission is a lot harder, however, and requires abuse.
It's possible I'm not a great driver and wore the clutch out under the conditions I drive in but there's no way I directly caused the transmission to fail. But indirectly, can a worn out clutch cause a transmission to fail?
A worn clutch will cause the transmission to slip. It is the wearing off process that damages the transmission.

foamypirate
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by foamypirate » Wed May 08, 2019 4:31 pm

Thesaints wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:22 pm
A worn clutch will cause the transmission to slip. It is the wearing off process that damages the transmission.
Say what? A worn clutch will result in the clutch slipping, not the transmission. If a manual transmission is "slipping," you've got some SERIOUS issues inside (stripped gears, broken input shaft/output shaft, etc.).

That said, a clutch related issue, like the clutch not disengaging all the way, can destroy synchronizers and gears in a hurry, and a pressure plate issue that isn't clamping tight could result in expedited clutch wear, etc.

alter
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by alter » Wed May 08, 2019 4:57 pm

I just thought of an idea that would actually force your car company to do the repairs for you for no cost, but I'm afraid I can't go into details of this awesome solution because it would give out too much personal information :wink:

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boglerocks
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by boglerocks » Wed May 08, 2019 5:05 pm

No problem. I understand.

ncbill
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by ncbill » Wed May 08, 2019 5:20 pm

grylex wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:53 pm
ncbill wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 11:48 am
boglerocks wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:38 am
randomguy wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:03 am
Heck I am not even sure what is actually broken besides the clutch. There is a chance you just hit a crappy dealer but this is one of those stories where you have a feeling the other side might be interesting to hear. Most dealers are more than willing to do repairs if they think they will get paid. They clearly think there is a chance the maker will not approve it.
The transmission is broken and the clutch is worn out. The dealer sent photos of everything to the maker and the maker denied the warranty claim.
1. escalate to the regional manager, escalate further if you get no satisfaction from them.

2. go online to forums for whatever make/model it is and see if others have had the same problem and how they resolved it with the local dealer/regional manager/company HQ

You may not get offered a full free replacement, but they might meet you halfway on the cost, which would be cheaper than walking away.

I wouldn't walk away...worst case I'd go ahead & pay the $5,000 and turn around and file against the local dealer in small claims.
It nothing has to do with dealer as “maker denied the warranty claim”. Dealer will not spend own money on this.
OP had to take delivery from some dealer...presumably a local one, so yes, he can haul them into court & try for a judgment.

MnD
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by MnD » Wed May 08, 2019 6:25 pm

researcher wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:42 pm
boglerocks wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:38 am
The transmission is broken and the clutch is worn out. The dealer sent photos of everything to the maker and the maker denied the warranty claim.
I'm guessing it is something along the lines of a Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio or maybe a Dodge Challenger Hellcat.

A vehicle that...
- Comes with a manual
- Has enough horsepower to damage a clutch/transmission within the first 5000 miles
- Isn't known to be particularly reliable
- A manufacturer (Fiat Chrysler) & dealers that don't have a great reputation
- Something you would be embarrassed to admit you own on the Bogleheads forum
Yep - likely worst in class muscle car like a Dodge Challenger Hellcat. Leased for two years no less, by someone "who has had many 2-year new car leases". Since the OP apparently has significantly more money than common sense I'd suggest he cough up the $5K to rebuilt a transmission on a rented car he's going to turn in in 12 months and just move on to his next misadventure.

Ther prudent course of action is to remain current on the lease, get the vehicle inspected and a report by an independent certified transmission shop and if no diagnosis of abuse, sue in small claims for the warranty repair. But I give our "exploding transmission" OP odds of doing that in a logical and reasoned manner around the same percentage as the Total Stock Market expense ratio. So blowing another $5K is the least damaging plausible course of action given all conditions and circumstances.
Last edited by MnD on Wed May 08, 2019 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thesaints
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by Thesaints » Wed May 08, 2019 6:32 pm

foamypirate wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:31 pm
Thesaints wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:22 pm
A worn clutch will cause the transmission to slip. It is the wearing off process that damages the transmission.
Say what? A worn clutch will result in the clutch slipping, not the transmission. If a manual transmission is "slipping," you've got some SERIOUS issues inside (stripped gears, broken input shaft/output shaft, etc.).

That said, a clutch related issue, like the clutch not disengaging all the way, can destroy synchronizers and gears in a hurry, and a pressure plate issue that isn't clamping tight could result in expedited clutch wear, etc.
clutch slips relative to transmission and vice-versa.

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J G Bankerton
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by J G Bankerton » Wed May 08, 2019 7:02 pm

boglerocks wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:36 am
FrugalInvestor wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:23 am
On what basis are they claiming that you abused the transmission? Do they have some sort of physical indication that they're pointing to?
It think it's the worn out clutch. They didn't say that specifically but seemed to indicate it. Will a worn out clutch cause a transmission to fail?
This isn't a Mustang I'll bet. I drag race my 2009 Mustang GT with 20,000 and the clutch still works fine. Burning out a clutch shouldn't hurt the transmission; A slipping clutch would be easer on the drive train than one that grabs.

$5,000 for a manual transmission is way out of line. I thought for sure it was an automatic.

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boglerocks
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by boglerocks » Wed May 08, 2019 7:26 pm

J G Bankerton wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:02 pm
Burning out a clutch shouldn't hurt the transmission; A slipping clutch would be easer on the drive train than one that grabs.
I'm surprised to read this. What I experienced was that the engine felt like it wasn't grabbing and would rev higher and higher before the car would start moving starting about 2 days before the blowout. Then while driving along in 4th it started revving higher until it redlined and the transmission blew up. It's not impossible that my driving skills and conditions are responsible for wearing out the clutch but I was just driving along (with a worn out clutch) when the transmission blew.

J G Bankerton wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:02 pm
$5,000 for a manual transmission is way out of line. I thought for sure it was an automatic.
Someone mentioned earlier that they would expect $3,000+ just for a clutch replacement from a non-dealer. $5,000 includes a new transmission from a dealer. Any other opinions on this?

JBTX
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by JBTX » Wed May 08, 2019 7:31 pm

boglerocks wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 4:45 pm
I did not abuse it. I've been fighting this but I don't want to go to court and I'm getting nervous about my credit. I don't know what else to do. I'm trying to be practical.
If it's worth 5000 to avoid confrontation that's your call. I would do any and all of the above:

- go through dealer
- go through district regional management
- go through corporate.
- politely but insistently email US executives. Cc local parties involved like dealer and regional management. Even if you have wrong executive email address cc s won't know this.
- file complaint with regulatory agencies, and cc dealer regional management and corporate.
- explore remedies under lemon laws
- communicate your experience on social media.
-

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/05/your ... -used.html

https://www.elliott.org/company-contacts/

Years ago I had a major repair that started before end of warranty but didn't get it addressed until after (dealer misdiagnosis). They refused to pay but raised hell with dealer and district management and received substantial relief. But it required persistence and assertiveness.


I suspect that given you are hesitant to anonymously share the vehicle type on this board you probably are too confrontation averse to do any of the above.

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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed May 08, 2019 7:36 pm

boglerocks wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:26 pm

Someone mentioned earlier that they would expect $3,000+ just for a clutch replacement from a non-dealer. $5,000 includes a new transmission from a dealer. Any other opinions on this?
This completely depends on the car. In my story about drag racing, pulling 1st instead of 3rd and destroying the clutch, the clutch was $31. I had the transmission built for me by D&L Transmission on Long Island. It was a T-5Z with a higher first gear and close ratio. I paid under $600 for the transmission including shipping and did not have to send them a core.

The chances your car has a $600 or these days $1000 replacement out there? Mustang, Camaro, Challenger....perhaps. Maserati, Ferrari, GT-R, S4 dual clutch auto....no chance.
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boglerocks
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by boglerocks » Wed May 08, 2019 7:38 pm

I'm not confrontation adverse but am adverse to sharing personal information publicly which is a category I think a lawsuit would fall into. Am I the only guy here that doesn't want a lawsuit showing up when someone Googles him?

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J G Bankerton
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by J G Bankerton » Wed May 08, 2019 7:38 pm

boglerocks wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:26 pm
J G Bankerton wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:02 pm
Burning out a clutch shouldn't hurt the transmission; A slipping clutch would be easer on the drive train than one that grabs.
I'm surprised to read this. What I experienced was that the engine felt like it wasn't grabbing and would rev higher and higher before the car would start moving starting about 2 days before the blowout. Then while driving along in 4th it started revving higher until it redlined and the transmission blew up. It's not impossible that my driving skills and conditions are responsible for wearing out the clutch but I was just driving along (with a worn out clutch) when the transmission blew.

J G Bankerton wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:02 pm
$5,000 for a manual transmission is way out of line. I thought for sure it was an automatic.
Someone mentioned earlier that they would expect $3,000+ just for a clutch replacement from a non-dealer. $5,000 includes a new transmission from a dealer. Any other opinions on this?
I just checked; if it is a TREMEC Magnum XL T56 6-Speed Transmission $5,000 is about right. If you have to pay you don't have to have a dealer do the job.

Ferdinand2014
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by Ferdinand2014 » Wed May 08, 2019 7:40 pm

boglerocks wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:36 am
FrugalInvestor wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:23 am
On what basis are they claiming that you abused the transmission? Do they have some sort of physical indication that they're pointing to?
It think it's the worn out clutch. They didn't say that specifically but seemed to indicate it. Will a worn out clutch cause a transmission to fail?

Also thank you to everyone here for trying to help me. Many great suggestions but sadly I think I was hoping for a silver bullet which doesn't seem to exist. I don't want to go to court.
No. However a worn out clutch at low mileage implies either poor manual transmission skills or abuse to the transmission.
“You only find out who is swimming naked when the tide goes out.“ — Warren Buffett

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ResearchMed
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by ResearchMed » Wed May 08, 2019 7:49 pm

boglerocks wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:26 pm
J G Bankerton wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:02 pm
Burning out a clutch shouldn't hurt the transmission; A slipping clutch would be easer on the drive train than one that grabs.
I'm surprised to read this. What I experienced was that the engine felt like it wasn't grabbing and would rev higher and higher before the car would start moving starting about 2 days before the blowout. Then while driving along in 4th it started revving higher until it redlined and the transmission blew up. It's not impossible that my driving skills and conditions are responsible for wearing out the clutch but I was just driving along (with a worn out clutch) when the transmission blew.

J G Bankerton wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:02 pm
$5,000 for a manual transmission is way out of line. I thought for sure it was an automatic.
Someone mentioned earlier that they would expect $3,000+ just for a clutch replacement from a non-dealer. $5,000 includes a new transmission from a dealer. Any other opinions on this?
Based upon this, I'm wondering if you should have kept driving the car those last 2+ days, and also whether you should have stopped immediately when it redlined (or as it got too close).
If that is showing up anywhere on the computer, perhaps that's why they don't want to cover it, and are pointing to mis-use/abuse? Something was obviously wrong, and perhaps there were other signs a bit earlier?

RM
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J G Bankerton
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by J G Bankerton » Wed May 08, 2019 7:50 pm

Ferdinand2014 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:40 pm
boglerocks wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:36 am
FrugalInvestor wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:23 am
On what basis are they claiming that you abused the transmission? Do they have some sort of physical indication that they're pointing to?
It think it's the worn out clutch. They didn't say that specifically but seemed to indicate it. Will a worn out clutch cause a transmission to fail?

Also thank you to everyone here for trying to help me. Many great suggestions but sadly I think I was hoping for a silver bullet which doesn't seem to exist. I don't want to go to court.
No. However a worn out clutch at low mileage implies either poor manual transmission skills or abuse to the transmission.
A "mussel" car with a burned out clutch and drive train problems is an automatic denial of warranty repairs.
Remember, if you want to play you have to pay. It's all good.

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boglerocks
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Re: Walk away from my auto lease?

Post by boglerocks » Wed May 08, 2019 7:56 pm

Something was clearly wrong for those 2 days and I knew it but I was in the middle of a family visit and it wasn't practical to take it to the shop at that point. I continued at redline for less than 2 seconds before it blew but yes that was probably 2 seconds too long. There were no other signs except that I thought I could smell the clutch intermittently during those 2 days. To be honest I wasn't super worried about it before or after the explosion. I was sure that failed equipment during warranty meant replacement under warranty. Learned that one the hard way.

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