Will vs POD?

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bmelikia
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Will vs POD?

Post by bmelikia »

If a will states that "John Doe" is to have all of my assets after my death but my checking account POD names "Jane Smith" - who gets the money in the checking account?
"I would rather die with money, than live without it...." - Bogleheads member Ron | | A time to EVALUATE your jitters https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1139732#p1139732
sailaway
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Re: Will vs POD?

Post by sailaway »

bmelikia wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 8:26 pm If a will states that "John Doe" is to have all of my assets after my death but my checking account POD names "Jane Smith" - who gets the money in the checking account?
Jane.
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Kenkat
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Re: Will vs POD?

Post by Kenkat »

sailaway wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 8:28 pm
bmelikia wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 8:26 pm If a will states that "John Doe" is to have all of my assets after my death but my checking account POD names "Jane Smith" - who gets the money in the checking account?
Jane.
+1. Specific designation of POD or beneficiary supersedes the will.
Gill
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Re: Will vs POD?

Post by Gill »

Your will controls only property owned in your name alone and without a designated beneficiary.
Gill
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JGoneRiding
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Re: Will vs POD?

Post by JGoneRiding »

I will say this. While probate is a pain. If you want to be buried in a nice place make sure you have that planned and sufficient assets in the probate estate to pay for it. All pod are their funds and while technically can be pulled back for debts its unlikely to happen.

Please do NOT put charities in the probate estate!! Designate funda directly to them.
drawpoker
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Re: Will vs POD?

Post by drawpoker »

JGoneRiding wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 9:20 pm .....If you want to be buried in a nice place make sure you have that planned and sufficient assets in the probate estate to pay for it.....
Well, even if you don't care and end up buried in a crummy place - you need to leave enough in your estate to pay

a) Executor's fee (usually based on a percentage of the estate)
b) Tax accountant's fee for preparation of two (2) returns; one for the decedent (final) and one for the estate (even if no taxes are owed, estate return req)
c) Misc. - cost of legal notice in newspaper, opening separate checking acc't in name of estate, bonding co. fee for posting bond for executor (if required in your state) and so forth. Am sure have forgotten some, maybe others can add to the list.

As a general rule, yes, you want to pass assets directly to beneficiaries when advisable, bypass probate, to reduce the size of estate (It is calculated on the day of death)
Longdog
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Re: Will vs POD?

Post by Longdog »

drawpoker wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 10:41 pm
JGoneRiding wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 9:20 pm .....If you want to be buried in a nice place make sure you have that planned and sufficient assets in the probate estate to pay for it.....
As a general rule, yes, you want to pass assets directly to beneficiaries when advisable, bypass probate, to reduce the size of estate (It is calculated on the day of death)
From an estate tax perspective, wouldn’t the value of the estate include IRAs with named beneficiaries, POD accounts, and any other asset that has similar titling?
Steve
Greenman72
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Re: Will vs POD?

Post by Greenman72 »

Longdog wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 6:03 am
drawpoker wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 10:41 pm
JGoneRiding wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 9:20 pm .....If you want to be buried in a nice place make sure you have that planned and sufficient assets in the probate estate to pay for it.....
As a general rule, yes, you want to pass assets directly to beneficiaries when advisable, bypass probate, to reduce the size of estate (It is calculated on the day of death)
From an estate tax perspective, wouldn’t the value of the estate include IRAs with named beneficiaries, POD accounts, and any other asset that has similar titling?
Yes. The size of a taxable estate is completely independent of what is subject to probate. One has nothing to do with the other.
whomever
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Re: Will vs POD?

Post by whomever »

Well, even if you don't care and end up buried in a crummy place - you need to leave enough in your estate to pay

a) Executor's fee (usually based on a percentage of the estate)
b) Tax accountant's fee for preparation of two (2) returns; one for the decedent (final) and one for the estate (even if no taxes are owed, estate return req)
c) Misc. - cost of legal notice in newspaper, opening separate checking acc't in name of estate, bonding co. fee for posting bond for executor (if required in your state) and so forth. Am sure have forgotten some, maybe others can add to the list.
That might depend on how much you trust your heirs, and/or state law. My last surviving parent had all their major assets POD/TOD to the children (my siblings and I). We didn't even open an estate - the value of the household goods was below the threshold where that state would require opening an estate. We were named as co-executors in case opening an estate was desirable.

So:
1)We didn't have any executor's fees.
2)We did pay to have the taxes done (but we could have done them ourselves)
3)We didn't put any notice in the paper (maybe the funeral home did; we wrote a check for the cremation). We didn't open any special accounts, didn't have a bond, etc, etc.

We just wrote checks for the final utility/medical/etc bills. I don't know what would have happened if we decided to stiff those creditors. We weren't planning to, so we didn't ask the attorney who drafted the will what would happen if we did.

Note that this is going to be state specific, e.g. I'm not sure all states have TOD real estate deeds.
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dm200
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Re: Will vs POD?

Post by dm200 »

bmelikia wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 8:26 pm If a will states that "John Doe" is to have all of my assets after my death but my checking account POD names "Jane Smith" - who gets the money in the checking account?
POD trumps will. Jane gets it.
drawpoker
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Re: Will vs POD?

Post by drawpoker »

Greenman72 wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 7:52 am

"From an estate tax perspective, wouldn’t the value of the estate include IRAs with named beneficiaries, POD accounts, and any other asset that has similar titling?"
Yes. The size of a taxable estate is completely independent of what is subject to probate. One has nothing to do with the other.
[/quote]

Apparently not in Maryland. Or else, I have been paying an attorney fees for estate planning that ain't worth beans.
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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Will vs POD?

Post by Earl Lemongrab »

Greenman72 wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 7:52 am The size of a taxable estate is completely independent of what is subject to probate. One has nothing to do with the other.
Not for things like determining attorney/executor fees. For formula-based compensation, only what passes via probate counts.
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joe8d
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Re: Will vs POD?

Post by joe8d »

JGoneRiding wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 9:20 pm I will say this. While probate is a pain. If you want to be buried in a nice place make sure you have that planned and sufficient assets in the probate estate to pay for it. All pod are their funds and while technically can be pulled back for debts its unlikely to happen.

Please do NOT put charities in the probate estate!! Designate funda directly to them.
:thumbsup
All the Best, | Joe
pshonore
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Re: Will vs POD?

Post by pshonore »

drawpoker wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 10:41 pm
JGoneRiding wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 9:20 pm .....If you want to be buried in a nice place make sure you have that planned and sufficient assets in the probate estate to pay for it.....
Well, even if you don't care and end up buried in a crummy place - you need to leave enough in your estate to pay

a) Executor's fee (usually based on a percentage of the estate)
b) Tax accountant's fee for preparation of two (2) returns; one for the decedent (final) and one for the estate (even if no taxes are owed, estate return req)
c) Misc. - cost of legal notice in newspaper, opening separate checking acc't in name of estate, bonding co. fee for posting bond for executor (if required in your state) and so forth. Am sure have forgotten some, maybe others can add to the list.

As a general rule, yes, you want to pass assets directly to beneficiaries when advisable, bypass probate, to reduce the size of estate (It is calculated on the day of death)
Estate return (1041) required if more the $600 income for the estate. When I was a tax preparer, I prepared many 1040 final returns for decedents but very few 1041 returns.
JGoneRiding
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Re: Will vs POD?

Post by JGoneRiding »

pshonore wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 7:49 pm
drawpoker wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 10:41 pm
JGoneRiding wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 9:20 pm .....If you want to be buried in a nice place make sure you have that planned and sufficient assets in the probate estate to pay for it.....
Well, even if you don't care and end up buried in a crummy place - you need to leave enough in your estate to pay

a) Executor's fee (usually based on a percentage of the estate)
b) Tax accountant's fee for preparation of two (2) returns; one for the decedent (final) and one for the estate (even if no taxes are owed, estate return req)
c) Misc. - cost of legal notice in newspaper, opening separate checking acc't in name of estate, bonding co. fee for posting bond for executor (if required in your state) and so forth. Am sure have forgotten some, maybe others can add to the list.

As a general rule, yes, you want to pass assets directly to beneficiaries when advisable, bypass probate, to reduce the size of estate (It is calculated on the day of death)
Estate return (1041) required if more the $600 income for the estate. When I was a tax preparer, I prepared many 1040 final returns for decedents but very few 1041 returns.
Do you need to get a Tin for the 1041? I wasn't sure yet if I should apply for one. We are selling enough things I think it counts as income??

Also do you know can probate be closed if still awaiting to file the taxes? I won't have all the tax paperwork till next spring!
HereToLearn
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Re: Will vs POD?

Post by HereToLearn »

pshonore wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 7:49 pm
drawpoker wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 10:41 pm
JGoneRiding wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 9:20 pm .....If you want to be buried in a nice place make sure you have that planned and sufficient assets in the probate estate to pay for it.....
Well, even if you don't care and end up buried in a crummy place - you need to leave enough in your estate to pay

a) Executor's fee (usually based on a percentage of the estate)
b) Tax accountant's fee for preparation of two (2) returns; one for the decedent (final) and one for the estate (even if no taxes are owed, estate return req)
c) Misc. - cost of legal notice in newspaper, opening separate checking acc't in name of estate, bonding co. fee for posting bond for executor (if required in your state) and so forth. Am sure have forgotten some, maybe others can add to the list.

As a general rule, yes, you want to pass assets directly to beneficiaries when advisable, bypass probate, to reduce the size of estate (It is calculated on the day of death)
Estate return (1041) required if more the $600 income for the estate. When I was a tax preparer, I prepared many 1040 final returns for decedents but very few 1041 returns.
I think, but am not 100% certain as I am still in the midst of this process, that I can elect to file a 1041 in order to capture the pass-through itemized deductions associated with selling the house? We do not have $600 in income but we have enough expenses that I think we will want to file a 1041.

I need to read up on this process a bit more. I don't even know how one considers probate 'closed'.
Greenman72
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Re: Will vs POD?

Post by Greenman72 »

^when the court says it’s closed, it’s closed.

At least until it gets re-opened.
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