Rolled over and melting down

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Topic Author
Cody6136
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Rolled over and melting down

Post by Cody6136 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:03 am

In an effort to consolidate, I decided to roll an old 401k from Merrill Edge to my current 403b, funds with TIA. My current plan, as I've learned, leaves a lot to be desired. I've discovered that TIA's reputation is somewhat tarnished. They seem to have high fees. They seem clumsy and antiquated.

I'm a newbie here at BH. The $125k that I'm rolling over represents a big part of my assets.

I'm female, 59 work in a charity in a rural heartland state. Super saver, no debt, everything owned ourtright. LBMM.
Net worth around 700k not counting home equity.

But this has me completely whipped. Here's my issue.
I consented to the rollover of my old 401k to TIA and then ten days later, the TIA rep emails me and tells me he needs copies of my statements from Merrill. In order to do a rollover. Huh? Why? The funds are gone from Merrill and my account is closed. No longer able to log in. Shredded all old statements.

I deeply regret moving my funds to TIA. They seem fat and stupid. Is this reversible? I should have learned more about TIA. Are they going to wallop me with fees? I feel like I did when I was wrestling with the sketchy financial advisor, whom I narrowly escaped.

Can I still go with Vanguard or is it too late? Is a rollover reversible?

Why on Earth would a rep ask for statements from a fund that a rollover client had closed and was locked out of?

There is another thread on this forum about why so many Americans avoid financial matters. This is why. Ignorance was bliss. :mrgreen:

BarbBrooklyn
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by BarbBrooklyn » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:55 am

Do you mean TIAA?

I assume that you've looked at the ERs on the rest of your monies in your 403b; are they high? Or are you talking about other fees?

Did you email the TIAA customer service rep and tell him/her that you no longer have statements? I'd give them a call in the AM and discuss your lack of satisfaction with their customer service.

Let us know!
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."

Nukeboilermaker
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Nukeboilermaker » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:45 am

Why not roll that money over to a roll over IRA with Vanguard or Fidelity? (Edit I missed that last line and this is the nature of your post)

I am sure contacting one of those services they would be able to help coordinate such a maneuver.

https://investor.vanguard.com/401k-roll ... -roll-over

Also contact TIAA and ask if it's possible to perform a "Direct Rollover" to an IRA of the account in question. I would also inquire about making rollovers of contributions. https://www.tiaa.org/public/pdf/Making- ... -Sheet.pdf

3-20Characters
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by 3-20Characters » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:20 am

FYI: Every rollover or transfer in kind that I’ve done has required providing copies of the latest statement from account being transferred (among other requirements). In one case, the statements were quarterly and I was coming up to a new quarter. I was advised by Vanguard to wait until the new statement was available before initiating the transfer (as the last statement would appear to be nearly 3 months old). I suspect that this but one step required to prevent fraud (unauthorized person transferring someone else’s money).

Topic Author
Cody6136
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Cody6136 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:57 am

Nukeboilermaker wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:45 am
Why not roll that money over to a roll over IRA with Vanguard or Fidelity? (Edit I missed that last line and this is the nature of your post)

I am sure contacting one of those services they would be able to help coordinate such a maneuver.

https://investor.vanguard.com/401k-roll ... -roll-over

Also contact TIAA and ask if it's possible to perform a "Direct Rollover" to an IRA of the account in question. I would also inquire about making rollovers of contributions. https://www.tiaa.org/public/pdf/Making- ... -Sheet.pdf
I don't think I can roll out my my current work related plan in TIAA to Vanguard. That is why I am despondent. I think this big (by my standards) fund is stuck in TIAA.

Topic Author
Cody6136
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Cody6136 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:05 am

BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:55 am
Do you mean TIAA?

I assume that you've looked at the ERs on the rest of your monies in your 403b; are they high? Or are you talking about other fees?

Did you email the TIAA customer service rep and tell him/her that you no longer have statements? I'd give them a call in the AM and discuss your lack of satisfaction with their customer service.

Let us know!
Yes. TIAA.
I would have thought that they...who were so eager to perform this rollover...would have let me know I needed current statements. I don't understand why they need so much detail about my former investment when I was trying to go to simple index bond funds.

I feel trapped in TIAA with this money as it's my understanding that you cannot roll out of the plan that you are currently contributing to with your employer. Does anyone here know if that is true?

I really regret leaving the Merrill Edge fund. This has me worried. I am way past the sleeping point.

2cents2
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by 2cents2 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:08 am

Cody6136 wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:57 am
Nukeboilermaker wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:45 am
Why not roll that money over to a roll over IRA with Vanguard or Fidelity? (Edit I missed that last line and this is the nature of your post)

I am sure contacting one of those services they would be able to help coordinate such a maneuver.

https://investor.vanguard.com/401k-roll ... -roll-over

Also contact TIAA and ask if it's possible to perform a "Direct Rollover" to an IRA of the account in question. I would also inquire about making rollovers of contributions. https://www.tiaa.org/public/pdf/Making- ... -Sheet.pdf
I don't think I can roll out my my current work related plan in TIAA to Vanguard. That is why I am despondent. I think this big (by my standards) fund is stuck in TIAA.
Check your 401k plan rules. If you can't find the rules online--call and ask your plan administrator. I noticed in DH's 401k plan that they keep the rollover money separate and it can be rolled out while he is still in service.

McDougal
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by McDougal » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:08 am

I strongly suggest that you generally keep either quarterly or annual financial/investment statements for at least a year, or until after taxes are filed. I'm not saying store paper forever, but consider scanning and keeping e-copies for situations like this, IRS audits, etc.
Good luck.

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Nate79
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Nate79 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:08 am

3-20Characters wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:20 am
FYI: Every rollover or transfer in kind that I’ve done has required providing copies of the latest statement from account being transferred (among other requirements). In one case, the statements were quarterly and I was coming up to a new quarter. I was advised by Vanguard to wait until the new statement was available before initiating the transfer (as the last statement would appear to be nearly 3 months old). I suspect that this but one step required to prevent fraud (unauthorized person transferring someone else’s money).
+1 always a requirement in many rollovers with different brikers.

The Wizard
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by The Wizard » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:11 am

A 403(b) employer plan with TIAA will generally have lower expense ratios than an IRA with them. But it depends on the size of your employer.

If possible, OP should tell us which funds are available in her 403(b) plan. One needs to be an informed consumer in this area.
"Ignorance is bliss" isn't the best approach...
Attempted new signature...

Topic Author
Cody6136
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Cody6136 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:13 am

McDougal wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:08 am
I strongly suggest that you generally keep either quarterly or annual financial/investment statements for at least a year, or until after taxes are filed. I'm not saying store paper forever, but consider scanning and keeping e-copies for situations like this, IRS audits, etc.
Good luck.
Um. Yeah. I get that. Hoping to get insight from here on. Regarding options

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RickBoglehead
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by RickBoglehead » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:16 am

Log into Merrill. Statements should be there electronically. Download as much as they have.

I have statements, at least year end, for everything, electronically. I scan old paper statements and save them. Stop shredding your records.

I would also suggest that you SLOW DOWN. On another post, you met with a broker, agreed to transfer all your funds to him, then wanted to not do that. Slow down.
Last edited by RickBoglehead on Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

Topic Author
Cody6136
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Cody6136 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:17 am

The Wizard wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:11 am
A 403(b) employer plan with TIAA will generally have lower expense ratios than an IRA with them. But it depends on the size of your employer.

If possible, OP should tell us which funds are available in her 403(b) plan. One needs to be an informed consumer in this area.
"Ignorance is bliss" isn't the best approach...
I said ignorance WAS bliss. I'm trying here.

Topic Author
Cody6136
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Cody6136 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:26 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:16 am
Log into Merrill. Statements should be there electronically. Download as much as they have.

I have statements, at least year end, for everything, electronically. I scan old paper statements and save them. Stop shredding your records.
I am locked out of the Merrill as I closed the account. I will spend some time with the robo phone system in an hour or so. Looking forward to it....haha

I understand the folly of my ways here, people. I'm trying to learn about managing my money more wisely. I'm a super saver with some good choices behind me. What I am wondering is whether I can roll out of a roll over.

In other words, can I straighten things out to the point where I can take the 120k over to Vanguard? Or is an active work related 403b account "stuck" at the financial firm that my employer...in this case a University... chooses, in this case TIAA.

RubyTuesday
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by RubyTuesday » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:28 am

I highly suspect you will be able to move your rollover out of TIAA once the dust settles. Focus on getting things sorted at TIAA and then move if you still want.

If you need statements, rest assured Merrill hasn’t shredded your statements. Call them.

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RickBoglehead
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by RickBoglehead » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:28 am

Cody6136 wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:26 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:16 am
Log into Merrill. Statements should be there electronically. Download as much as they have.

I have statements, at least year end, for everything, electronically. I scan old paper statements and save them. Stop shredding your records.
I am locked out of the Merrill as I closed the account. I will spend some time with the robo phone system in an hour or so. Looking forward to it....haha

I understand the folly of my ways here, people. I'm trying to learn about managing my money more wisely. I'm a super saver with some good choices behind me. What I am wondering is whether I can roll out of a roll over.

In other words, can I straighten things out to the point where I can take the 120k over to Vanguard? Or is an active work related 403b account "stuck" at the financial firm that my employer...in this case a University... chooses, in this case TIAA.
As stated, that is totally up to the plan.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

Topic Author
Cody6136
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Cody6136 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:41 am

RubyTuesday wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:28 am
I highly suspect you will be able to move your rollover out of TIAA once the dust settles. Focus on getting things sorted at TIAA and then move if you still want.

If you need statements, rest assured Merrill hasn’t shredded your statements. Call them.
Thank you

Topic Author
Cody6136
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Cody6136 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:51 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:28 am
Cody6136 wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:26 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:16 am
Log into Merrill. Statements should be there electronically. Download as much as they have.

I have statements, at least year end, for everything, electronically. I scan old paper statements and save them. Stop shredding your records.
I am locked out of the Merrill as I closed the account. I will spend some time with the robo phone system in an hour or so. Looking forward to it....haha

I understand the folly of my ways here, people. I'm trying to learn about managing my money more wisely. I'm a super saver with some good choices behind me. What I am wondering is whether I can roll out of a roll over.

In other words, can I straighten things out to the point where I can take the 120k over to Vanguard? Or is an active work related 403b account "stuck" at the financial firm that my employer...in this case a University... chooses, in this case TIAA.
As stated, that is totally up to the plan.
And when you say "the plan" do you mean something that I can access through my employer?

yohac
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by yohac » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:12 am

This is just a data point, which may not be applicable to your plan. Money from an old 403B that I rolled into my last 401K was definitely available for rolling out into an IRA, even while I was still employed. This showed up as a separate amount available for withdrawal or rollover. Of course money from my contributions while employed could not be rolled out until after I left.

If you do try to pull it out after the dust settles, don't expect TIAA to make it easy. In my experience they love taking money in, but hate letting it out.

I know you're kicking yourself, and you're right, TIAA's mutual funds stink, but they do have a couple unique investments - the Traditional and Real Estate accounts. You may want to research those. Lots of info in this forum.

Topic Author
Cody6136
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Cody6136 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:24 am

yohac wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:12 am
This is just a data point, which may not be applicable to your plan. Money from an old 403B that I rolled into my last 401K was definitely available for rolling out into an IRA, even while I was still employed. This showed up as a separate amount available for withdrawal or rollover. Of course money from my contributions while employed could not be rolled out until after I left.

If you do try to pull it out after the dust settles, don't expect TIAA to make it easy. In my experience they love taking money in, but hate letting it out.

I know you're kicking yourself, and you're right, TIAA's mutual funds stink, but they do have a couple unique investments - the Traditional and Real Estate accounts. You may want to research those. Lots of info in this forum.
Thank you for your hints. I am going to let the dust settle and research, both with my people at the job and here on this forum. You are correct that I am kicking myself and some of the posters seem unkind...when I said that "ignorance was bliss" it was a rueful comment about my learning curve, which is steep.So your thoughtful comment helped.

MildlyEccentric
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by MildlyEccentric » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:29 am

I feel trapped in TIAA with this money as it's my understanding that you cannot roll out of the plan that you are currently contributing to with your employer. Does anyone here know if that is true?
You might be able to do an "in service" rollover, but not all plans permit that option. If you want to explore the possibility, start by reviewing your 401K Summary Plan Description (SPD). Companies don't always distribute this, but they are required to give you a copy if you request it. In service rollovers often come with age restrictions and limits on future contributions so proceed with caution.

I second the advice given to slow down. The rules on retirement accounts can be complex and it's better to take a little more time up front than to try and undo decisions made in haste.

Topic Author
Cody6136
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Cody6136 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:32 am

MildlyEccentric wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:29 am
I feel trapped in TIAA with this money as it's my understanding that you cannot roll out of the plan that you are currently contributing to with your employer. Does anyone here know if that is true?
You might be able to do an "in service" rollover, but not all plans permit that option. If you want to explore the possibility, start by reviewing your 401K Summary Plan Description (SPD). Companies don't always distribute this, but they are required to give you a copy if you request it. In service rollovers often come with age restrictions and limits on future contributions so proceed with caution.

I second the advice given to slow down. The rules on retirement accounts can be complex and it's better to take a little more time up front than to try and undo decisions made in haste.
Very very useful...thank you!!!

BarbBrooklyn
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by BarbBrooklyn » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:59 am

Cody; Deep breath!

Can I just say that you are doing amazingly? You've got no debt, paid up house and 700k in mutual funds. And you're 50.

Is there a pension attached to your job? Do you contribute to SS?

I didn't discover the Bogleheads until this past summer when I was almost ready to retire, so count yourself as very smart and very lucky to have arrived in your relative "youth"!.

I think you would benefit from reading the Wiki and crafting yourself an IPS. It helped me feel less panicked and slowed me down. It also helped me to enumerate what money was in what fund, what the ER is. You dont have to post it. It just helps to see it in black and white.
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."

Topic Author
Cody6136
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Cody6136 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:08 am

BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:59 am
Cody; Deep breath!

Can I just say that you are doing amazingly? You've got no debt, paid up house and 700k in mutual funds. And you're 50.

Is there a pension attached to your job? Do you contribute to SS?

I didn't discover the Bogleheads until this past summer when I was almost ready to retire, so count yourself as very smart and very lucky to have arrived in your relative "youth"!.

I think you would benefit from reading the Wiki and crafting yourself an IPS. It helped me feel less panicked and slowed me down. It also helped me to enumerate what money was in what fund, what the ER is. You dont have to post it. It just helps to see it in black and white.
Whew!
Thank you. One small..tick tock..thing. I'm 58.
I have an old pension at about 1 k per month, ss is ongoing.
Thank you for your encouragement.
The IPS is a must.
Slowing down is too.
Believe it or not, I don't know what an ER is.
Lots to learn!

vtMaps
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by vtMaps » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:23 am

yohac wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:12 am
I know you're kicking yourself, and you're right, TIAA's mutual funds stink, but they do have a couple unique investments - the Traditional and Real Estate accounts. You may want to research those. Lots of info in this forum.
+1
Tiaa does not have the lowest cost index funds, but how many more years will you work before retirement? The extra cost won't hurt too badly because it will not have many years to compound.

By the way, I have kept my Tiaa account because of Traditional and Real Estate... nothing like them at vanguard or fidelity.

--vtMaps
The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true. --James Branch Cabell

The Wizard
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by The Wizard » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:25 am

yohac wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:12 am
I know you're kicking yourself, and you're right, TIAA's mutual funds stink...
Their mutual funds DON'T necessarily stink, but it depends on exactly what's available in your employer's plan.

In my plan, for instance, I have access to certain Institutional class mutual funds, such as TISPX, their S&P 500 index fund with 0.05% ER, not quite as low as Vanguard's VFIAX but not stinky either.
And I also have access to Vanguard's midcap and small cap index funds, VIMAX and VSMAX...
Last edited by The Wizard on Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Attempted new signature...

jharkin
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by jharkin » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:41 am

Yeah deep breath. TIAA may not be the absolute best, but they are generally considered one of the "good guys" along with Vanguard, Fidelity and Schwab.

One hidden benefit of moving to TIAA is that you might get access to TIAA traditional. This is one of the few annuities that's actually a really good deal and would make a solid choice for the "bond" portion of your AA. There are very few places that you can lock in a guaranteed risk-free 3.5% for life which I believe is what they are offering for new money right now.


My wife had a small 403b left over at TIAA from a prior employer and we left it with them on purpose to take advantage of Traditional.

BarbBrooklyn
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by BarbBrooklyn » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:45 am

ER=EXPENSE RATIO.

It's the percentage charged by each fund. Lower is better!
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."

3-20Characters
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by 3-20Characters » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:47 am

Cody6136 wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:08 am
BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:59 am
Cody; Deep breath!

Can I just say that you are doing amazingly? You've got no debt, paid up house and 700k in mutual funds. And you're 50.

Is there a pension attached to your job? Do you contribute to SS?

I didn't discover the Bogleheads until this past summer when I was almost ready to retire, so count yourself as very smart and very lucky to have arrived in your relative "youth"!.

I think you would benefit from reading the Wiki and crafting yourself an IPS. It helped me feel less panicked and slowed me down. It also helped me to enumerate what money was in what fund, what the ER is. You dont have to post it. It just helps to see it in black and white.
Whew!
Thank you. One small..tick tock..thing. I'm 58.
I have an old pension at about 1 k per month, ss is ongoing.
Thank you for your encouragement.
The IPS is a must.
Slowing down is too.
Believe it or not, I don't know what an ER is.
Lots to learn!
ER - Expense Ratio. Costs used to operate a fund. Using low cost funds is a key objective.
Abbreviations and Acronyms - Bogleheads
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Abbrevi ... ronyms#D-F

Dottie57
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Dottie57 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:36 am

Nate79 wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:08 am
3-20Characters wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:20 am
FYI: Every rollover or transfer in kind that I’ve done has required providing copies of the latest statement from account being transferred (among other requirements). In one case, the statements were quarterly and I was coming up to a new quarter. I was advised by Vanguard to wait until the new statement was available before initiating the transfer (as the last statement would appear to be nearly 3 months old). I suspect that this but one step required to prevent fraud (unauthorized person transferring someone else’s money).
+1 always a requirement in many rollovers with different brikers.
+1.

I suspect they need to know the fund names to make the request and they need to know the amounts for verification.

Accountability.

The Wizard
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by The Wizard » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:45 am

jharkin wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:41 am
One hidden benefit of moving to TIAA is that you might get access to TIAA traditional. This is one of the few annuities that's actually a really good deal and would make a solid choice for the "bond" portion of your AA. There are very few places that you can lock in a guaranteed risk-free 3.5% for life which I believe is what they are offering for new money right now...
Right, mostly.
When we say "annuity" here, we should clarify that it's a good one during your accumulation years, with no fees of any sort. The quoted rate, from 3.0% and up, is what you get each year.
And while the guaranteed minimum in GRA and GSRA plans is 3.0%, they adjust rates depending on prevailing current conditions and the year you contributed each amount. A bit complicated, yes.

As for me, 40% of my combined portfolio is in Trad + TREA.
I hold no bond funds...
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The Wizard
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by The Wizard » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:53 am

The Wizard wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:45 am
jharkin wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:41 am
One hidden benefit of moving to TIAA is that you might get access to TIAA traditional. This is one of the few annuities that's actually a really good deal and would make a solid choice for the "bond" portion of your AA. There are very few places that you can lock in a guaranteed risk-free 3.5% for life which I believe is what they are offering for new money right now...
Right, mostly.
When we say "annuity" here, we should clarify that it's a good one during your accumulation years, with no fees of any sort. The quoted rate, from 3.0% and up, is what you get each year.
And while the guaranteed minimum in GRA and GSRA plans is 3.0%, they adjust rates depending on prevailing current conditions and the year you contributed each amount. A bit complicated, yes.

As for me, 40% of my combined portfolio is in Trad + TREA.
I hold no bond funds...
Also, regarding the annuity designation on TIAA Traditional, you have a number of choices on what to do with it in retirement:
1) you can "annuitize" a portion of it for lifetime monthly income
2) you can just leave it in your tax-deferred account to grow
3) you can periodically withdraw amounts as desired or required (RMDs)

I'm doing all of the above...
Attempted new signature...

Topic Author
Cody6136
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Cody6136 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:53 am

The Wizard wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:45 am
jharkin wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:41 am
One hidden benefit of moving to TIAA is that you might get access to TIAA traditional. This is one of the few annuities that's actually a really good deal and would make a solid choice for the "bond" portion of your AA. There are very few places that you can lock in a guaranteed risk-free 3.5% for life which I believe is what they are offering for new money right now...
Right, mostly.
When we say "annuity" here, we should clarify that it's a good one during your accumulation years, with no fees of any sort. The quoted rate, from 3.0% and up, is what you get each year.
And while the guaranteed minimum in GRA and GSRA plans is 3.0%, they adjust rates depending on prevailing current conditions and the year you contributed each amount. A bit complicated, yes.

As for me, 40% of my combined portfolio is in Trad + TREA.
I hold no bond funds...
Super illuminating! A big thank you. I have a lot to learn!

Topic Author
Cody6136
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:54 am

Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Cody6136 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:54 am

The Wizard wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:53 am
The Wizard wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:45 am
jharkin wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:41 am
One hidden benefit of moving to TIAA is that you might get access to TIAA traditional. This is one of the few annuities that's actually a really good deal and would make a solid choice for the "bond" portion of your AA. There are very few places that you can lock in a guaranteed risk-free 3.5% for life which I believe is what they are offering for new money right now...
Right, mostly.
When we say "annuity" here, we should clarify that it's a good one during your accumulation years, with no fees of any sort. The quoted rate, from 3.0% and up, is what you get each year.
And while the guaranteed minimum in GRA and GSRA plans is 3.0%, they adjust rates depending on prevailing current conditions and the year you contributed each amount. A bit complicated, yes.

As for me, 40% of my combined portfolio is in Trad + TREA.
I hold no bond funds...
Also, regarding the annuity designation on TIAA Traditional, you have a number of choices on what to do with it in retirement:
1) you can "annuitize" a portion of it for lifetime monthly income
2) you can just leave it in your tax-deferred account to grow
3) you can periodically withdraw amounts as desired or required (RMDs)

I'm doing all of the above...
This is seriously useful stuff. I have requested the PLAN and am very intrigued by all of these suggestions. Thank you so much!

Topic Author
Cody6136
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:54 am

Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Cody6136 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:55 am

3-20Characters wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:47 am
Cody6136 wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:08 am
BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:59 am
Cody; Deep breath!

Can I just say that you are doing amazingly? You've got no debt, paid up house and 700k in mutual funds. And you're 50.

Is there a pension attached to your job? Do you contribute to SS?

I didn't discover the Bogleheads until this past summer when I was almost ready to retire, so count yourself as very smart and very lucky to have arrived in your relative "youth"!.

I think you would benefit from reading the Wiki and crafting yourself an IPS. It helped me feel less panicked and slowed me down. It also helped me to enumerate what money was in what fund, what the ER is. You dont have to post it. It just helps to see it in black and white.
Whew!
Thank you. One small..tick tock..thing. I'm 58.
I have an old pension at about 1 k per month, ss is ongoing.
Thank you for your encouragement.
The IPS is a must.
Slowing down is too.
Believe it or not, I don't know what an ER is.
Lots to learn!
ER - Expense Ratio. Costs used to operate a fund. Using low cost funds is a key objective.
Abbreviations and Acronyms - Bogleheads
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Abbrevi ... ronyms#D-F

Okay, I need to spend some quality time over at the WIKI!

BarbBrooklyn
Posts: 290
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Location: NYC

Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by BarbBrooklyn » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:04 pm

Welcome to BogleHeads, Cody! You're off to a great start!
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."

Rus In Urbe
Posts: 425
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Rus In Urbe » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:19 pm

Yeah deep breath. TIAA may not be the absolute best, but they are generally considered one of the "good guys" along with Vanguard, Fidelity and Schwab.
One hidden benefit of moving to TIAA is that you might get access to TIAA traditional. This is one of the few annuities that's actually a really good deal and would make a solid choice for the "bond" portion of your AA. There are very few places that you can lock in a guaranteed risk-free 3.5% for life which I believe is what they are offering for new money right now.
+1
We've been with TIAA for 30 years. And at Vanguard too.
TIAA is one of the "good guys" so don't panic. And yes, the "traditional" option is very nice for the conservative part of your AA, but it does come with some strings (like once it is in there, you can only move 10% of it out every year----rules like that, just be aware). TIAA is complicated and, like an elephant, slow-moving. And the website is unnecessarily complicated. But it is generally reliable, you can get low-fee indexes through TIAA.

CONGRATS on all the money you have put aside----you'll get this figured out and be fine. Others have offered sound suggestions.

And breathe!
I'd like to live as a poor man with lots of money. ~Pablo Picasso

Topic Author
Cody6136
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:54 am

Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Cody6136 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:26 pm

BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:04 pm
Welcome to BogleHeads, Cody! You're off to a great start!
Thank you!

I am getting quite the education here! ( I would say that I'm getting a crash course, but yesterday I reviewed my car insurance on my high mileage/paid for car).

I'm finding the LBYM part easy compared to the bigger decisions about how to shepherd the assets that I HAVE accumulated. Anyone else here agree? Moving the assets around and doing the allocation is much harder than LBMM!!

Whew!

panine
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:32 pm

Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by panine » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:29 pm

Cody, don't stress about what you don't know. It's good you're looking into learning about finances, and many times there's no one right answer or approach... just what's right for you. I can highly recommend my favorite financial book: Jane Bryant Quinn's "How to Make Your Money Last." Non-robotic and doesn't sound like a scolding from dear ol dad. Best of luck. :happy

BarbBrooklyn
Posts: 290
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Location: NYC

Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by BarbBrooklyn » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:51 pm

panine wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:29 pm
Cody, don't stress about what you don't know. It's good you're looking into learning about finances, and many times there's no one right answer or approach... just what's right for you. I can highly recommend my favorite financial book: Jane Bryant Quinn's "How to Make Your Money Last." Non-robotic and doesn't sound like a scolding from dear ol dad. Best of luck. :happy
+1 Jane Bryant Quinn is the best!

Join the club,Cody! Unless we found BH at 14, we're all playing catchup. And yes, the saving is the easy part, in retrospect.
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."

Topic Author
Cody6136
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:54 am

Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Cody6136 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:06 pm

BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:51 pm
panine wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:29 pm
Cody, don't stress about what you don't know. It's good you're looking into learning about finances, and many times there's no one right answer or approach... just what's right for you. I can highly recommend my favorite financial book: Jane Bryant Quinn's "How to Make Your Money Last." Non-robotic and doesn't sound like a scolding from dear ol dad. Best of luck. :happy
+1 Jane Bryant Quinn is the best!

Join the club,Cody! Unless we found BH at 14, we're all playing catchup. And yes, the saving is the easy part, in retrospect.
Thank you. I still don't understand one key thing. Where is the money (120k or so?) that is not in the Merrill (where my savings CAME FROM) and not in the TIAA cref fund. It has been a week.

That seems geologic to me.

So what happens if I "slow down." Will TIAA cref hold it somewhere waiting for my instructions?

Honestly, I've tried calling them, my plan administrators at my place of employment. I'm getting exactly nowhere.

I know I should be breathing but man, it's a first for me to have more than 100k ....LOST IN SPACE.

yohac
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:42 pm

Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by yohac » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:35 pm

Cody6136 wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:06 pm
I know I should be breathing but man, it's a first for me to have more than 100k ....LOST IN SPACE.
I don't know where your money is, but I definitely know the feeling of having a ton of money in limbo, and it's awful. The fact that these rollovers are still done by paper checks over snail mail is maddening.

Anyway, a week isn't excessively long. Just keep checking.

ved
Posts: 718
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:56 pm

Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by ved » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:40 pm

Cody6136 wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:06 pm
BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:51 pm
panine wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:29 pm
Cody, don't stress about what you don't know. It's good you're looking into learning about finances, and many times there's no one right answer or approach... just what's right for you. I can highly recommend my favorite financial book: Jane Bryant Quinn's "How to Make Your Money Last." Non-robotic and doesn't sound like a scolding from dear ol dad. Best of luck. :happy
+1 Jane Bryant Quinn is the best!

Join the club,Cody! Unless we found BH at 14, we're all playing catchup. And yes, the saving is the easy part, in retrospect.
Thank you. I still don't understand one key thing. Where is the money (120k or so?) that is not in the Merrill (where my savings CAME FROM) and not in the TIAA cref fund. It has been a week.

That seems geologic to me.

So what happens if I "slow down." Will TIAA cref hold it somewhere waiting for my instructions?

Honestly, I've tried calling them, my plan administrators at my place of employment. I'm getting exactly nowhere.

I know I should be breathing but man, it's a first for me to have more than 100k ....LOST IN SPACE.
First of all, relax...money won't go anywhere. It will be "found".
Did you have the money "pulled in" by TIAA, or "pushed out" by Merrill? You should work with the initiator of the transaction to see where the money is.

The Wizard
Posts: 13355
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:45 pm
Location: Reading, MA

Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by The Wizard » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:50 pm

BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:51 pm
panine wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:29 pm
Cody, don't stress about what you don't know. It's good you're looking into learning about finances, and many times there's no one right answer or approach... just what's right for you. I can highly recommend my favorite financial book: Jane Bryant Quinn's "How to Make Your Money Last." Non-robotic and doesn't sound like a scolding from dear ol dad. Best of luck. :happy
+1 Jane Bryant Quinn is the best!
JBQ is okay, but feel free to ignore any advice she gives on Bucket methods for doing retirement income withdrawals.
We can discuss this more later, when things have settled...
Attempted new signature...

BarbBrooklyn
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:33 am
Location: NYC

Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by BarbBrooklyn » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:00 pm

"JBQ is okay, but feel free to ignore any advice she gives on Bucket methods for doing retirement income withdrawals.
We can discuss this more later, when things have settled."

Yes, I should have qualified that!. Before I read JBQ, I was going on the assumption that at retirement, I should remove all my money from the risk of equities. I guess that was the advice give when people retired at 65 and died shortly thereafter.

Imagine my surprise at her suggestion of a 50/50 AA ( Asset Allocation)?
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."

Topic Author
Cody6136
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:54 am

Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Cody6136 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:00 pm

BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:00 pm
"JBQ is okay, but feel free to ignore any advice she gives on Bucket methods for doing retirement income withdrawals.
We can discuss this more later, when things have settled."

Yes, I should have qualified that!. Before I read JBQ, I was going on the assumption that at retirement, I should remove all my money from the risk of equities. I guess that was the advice give when people retired at 65 and died shortly thereafter.

Imagine my surprise at her suggestion of a 50/50 AA ( Asset Allocation)?
Yes, our longer life spans make things more variable. On the other hand, I'm shortening mine as we speak by worrying about the whereabouts of the funds.

It completely blows my mind that in an era of instant communication across the globe, where a ripple can cause follow-on effect immediately, that something like this could be done on paper. Is this really the standard?

BarbBrooklyn
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:33 am
Location: NYC

Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by BarbBrooklyn » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:34 pm

Yes, apparently these transfers get made via paper check.

I know. It's maddening.

It's going to be okay!
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."

Topic Author
Cody6136
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:54 am

Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Cody6136 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:38 pm

BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:34 pm
Yes, apparently these transfers get made via paper check.

I know. It's maddening.

It's going to be okay!
This is a process. I was thinking of attacking my HSA and getting it into shape today but I think I will sit down until the feeling passes. The days are getting longer out here in Montana and it is making everyone manic!

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Earl Lemongrab
Posts: 7270
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Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:54 pm

3-20Characters wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:20 am
FYI: Every rollover or transfer in kind that I’ve done has required providing copies of the latest statement from account being transferred (among other requirements). In one case, the statements were quarterly and I was coming up to a new quarter. I was advised by Vanguard to wait until the new statement was available before initiating the transfer (as the last statement would appear to be nearly 3 months old). I suspect that this but one step required to prevent fraud (unauthorized person transferring someone else’s money).
It used to be pretty common when moving assets from one IRA or taxable account to another using ACATS. However, I've never seen that for rollovers involving qualified plans. A high percentage of those are using checks.

Topic Author
Cody6136
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:54 am

Re: Rolled over and melting down

Post by Cody6136 » Thu May 02, 2019 12:31 pm

BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:55 am
Do you mean TIAA?

I assume that you've looked at the ERs on the rest of your monies in your 403b; are they high? Or are you talking about other fees?

Did you email the TIAA customer service rep and tell him/her that you no longer have statements? I'd give them a call in the AM and discuss your lack of satisfaction with their customer service.

Let us know!
I cannot believe that I just spoke with a very helpful person at TIAA who told me the exact steps that were being taken with my (small) nest egg. I can now see which Vanguard funds are available to me in my plan.

I've gone from freaking out to a position of researching the differences between the Vanguard funds offered by my employer. I'm kind of enamored of the Retirement 2025 fund, as I think it might be balanced in a good way per my age/glide path. On the other hand, for my larger PLAN, I said I wanted to go chiefly into bonds, because my taxable accounts are very heavy in stock mutual funds. So in order to keep onto my plan (this discipline thing!) I should probably hug the shore in some bond index funds. Decisions, decisions.

The bottom line is that due to the advice from this forum, I'm proceeding slowly and deliberately and getting some results.

So far this quarter I have:

Re-cast my budget with sub-categories included
Opened new savings account expressly for my side consulting job
Registered online at ssa.gov
Slashed auto insurance premiums
Roll(ing) over an old 401k into current 403(b) and choosing LOW COST funds.
Nearly hired a Financial advisor and said, thanks but no...whew
Read three books on investing, plus If You Can, found BH and started posting here
Started to clear up old stocks w/out certificates
Identified the fact that HSA that needs to be growing and working for me.

Whew!

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