Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
GmanJeff
Posts: 553
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:12 am

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by GmanJeff » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:47 pm

Don't discount the $. I suspect that many employees in large corporations have no idea how much money the senior executives make, and not just the top 2 or 3 people in the company, but at the SVP and EVP level. With equity, bonuses, executive stock purchase programs and other perks, the total annual compensation can be what many would consider very substantial (e.g. mid-upper six figures in a Fortune 1000 company) and can make for a very different retirement than you otherwise may be able to reasonably contemplate in terms of both how early you'll be able to afford to retire and what your retirement income and financial security in retirement will look like.

As others have said, in some companies the higher you are in the hierarchy the less actual work you have to do in front of a computer or elsewhere, and you're less likely to be challenged about how you do use your time as long as the business keep humming along. So your stress level may go down rather than up, you may find you have more scheduling flexibility to attend kids' activities during the day, and so on. Conversely, you could end up traveling more, or working longer hours; you'd need to understand your company's culture and the expectations for the types of positions you'd advance to. Echoing a prior post, executives also get dramatically better severance packages when let go without cause, mitigating that risk to some extent.

In other words, don't assume that being promoted necessarily means less time at home, more stress, and other drawbacks in return for a modest increase in compensation. The reality may (or may not) be quite different and much more appealing for those fortunate enough to find the right roles in the right companies.
Last edited by GmanJeff on Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Glockenspiel
Posts: 958
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:20 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by Glockenspiel » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:49 pm

daheld wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:03 am
livesoft wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:49 am
Because you will be fired to make room for the people that you are blocking behind you.
Where I work, the inverse is actually true. The higher you climb, the easier it is for you to be fired.
I agree that our directors and executives tend to get fired or are force to resign more frequently than senior technical staff. And there isn't really any "blocking" that happens. If someone is destined to become a director, they can become one without having a senior technical person "blocking" them.

Triple digit golfer
Posts: 3909
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:57 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by Triple digit golfer » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:49 pm

I totally agree with the OP and see nothing wrong with NOT accepting a promotion.

You'd essentially be trading in time and some freedom (things you value) for additional money (which you value less).

I don't see a problem with not climbing the corporate ladder. It's not for everybody. My dad turned down a few promotions in his working life. He retired 16 months ago at age 59. He was home at 5:30 almost every night as a kid for dinner. He was at my sporting events, parent teacher conferences, and coached my youth basketball team for years. He hung out with my brother and me on weekends, watching sports, playing outside or whatever. He made a decision a long time ago that he wasn't willing to sacrifice those things in order to climb higher up the corporate ladder. I appreciate him very much for that.

Glockenspiel
Posts: 958
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:20 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by Glockenspiel » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:52 pm

bigtex wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:06 am
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:13 am
daheld wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:03 am
Where I work, the inverse is actually true. The higher you climb, the easier it is for you to be fired.
Perhaps, but at least if you are higher up you have a fighting chance at influencing your fate. Peons have to just accept layoffs as they come. In other words, you want to be at the table, not on the table. And even if you do get fired as a Director/ VP, the severance packages are much better.
Ged wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:05 am
bigtex wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:46 am
Whats the point of climbing the corporate ladder if I'm fine with my current salary and position and can hit all my financial goals without future promotions raises etc?
Livesoft pointed out one of the dangers of this approach. Another is that you will max out your pay for the job you are doing, making replacement by a younger lower paid person with fresher skills likely.

If you don't want to be a manager (and I can definitely understand that) you still need to look for other ways to increase your value to your company over time.
+1

OP should google “growth mindset”

I have the growth mindset and have communicated this to my company, but is it worth it at the expense of not having family time anymore, high stress, not getting to be at my kid's events etc?
No. It's not worth it at all. My director has this "I live to work" mindset and I'm the complete and total opposite. Get in, get my work done, do a good job, keep clients happy, and go home to be with my family. In fact, all the directors here work 45-60 hours a week and here I am, humming along, probably with more net worth than most of them, working my 40-42 hours/week, planning to retire in my early 50s.

CheCha54
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by CheCha54 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:30 pm

I recently retired from the corporate environment and spent my career "climbing" the ladder. The advice I gave was that it is acceptable to be content in one's job, however it is dangerous to become complacent. Always work to increase your contribution.

User avatar
FIREchief
Posts: 3788
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by FIREchief » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:03 pm

Power, sense of fulfillment, money. You really only get to keep one of those when you FIRE.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

augustwest73
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:36 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by augustwest73 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:10 pm

daheld wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:03 am
livesoft wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:49 am
Because you will be fired to make room for the people that you are blocking behind you.
Where I work, the inverse is actually true. The higher you climb, the easier it is for you to be fired.
+1

marcopolo
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:22 am

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by marcopolo » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:28 pm

bigtex wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:06 am

I have the growth mindset and have communicated this to my company, but is it worth it at the expense of not having family time anymore, high stress, not getting to be at my kid's events etc?
Everyone's experience is different.
In my career, i found the opposite to be true. As I grew into more senior positions, with more responsibility, i found that I also had much more flexibility in how i met my responsibilities. That included the schedule i kept as well as how i structured my teams and projects. I found having more control over my environment also created a less stressful life. In all honesty, I found more senior positions much easier to manage, and the extra compensation enabled an early exit to pursue goals even more aligned with the things I value in life.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

Bacchus01
Posts: 3182
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:35 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by Bacchus01 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:17 pm

bigtex wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:06 am
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:13 am
daheld wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:03 am
Where I work, the inverse is actually true. The higher you climb, the easier it is for you to be fired.
Perhaps, but at least if you are higher up you have a fighting chance at influencing your fate. Peons have to just accept layoffs as they come. In other words, you want to be at the table, not on the table. And even if you do get fired as a Director/ VP, the severance packages are much better.
Ged wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:05 am
bigtex wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:46 am
Whats the point of climbing the corporate ladder if I'm fine with my current salary and position and can hit all my financial goals without future promotions raises etc?
Livesoft pointed out one of the dangers of this approach. Another is that you will max out your pay for the job you are doing, making replacement by a younger lower paid person with fresher skills likely.

If you don't want to be a manager (and I can definitely understand that) you still need to look for other ways to increase your value to your company over time.
+1

OP should google “growth mindset”

I have the growth mindset and have communicated this to my company, but is it worth it at the expense of not having family time anymore, high stress, not getting to be at my kid's events etc?
I run a $1B+ business. I work and travel some insane hours. I commute 1 hour each way to work. I have been out of the country 4 of the last 6 weeks. I have calls with China at 6AM the morning.

I never miss my kids events. I take all of my vacation or close to it. I make it a point to let everyone known leaving the office to get to my kids’ play, soccer game, band concert, whatever.

Balance is about culture and it’s set by the leaders. I lead by example. I leave early on Fridays. I come in late because it was donuts with dad at school. I make sure people know that. And when it comes time to put in the extra, travel like crazy, or whatever, I do that too. You can do both. It’s hard. If you are not in environment where you can...find one.

techthedj
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:06 am

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by techthedj » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:51 pm

Bacchus01 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:17 pm

I run a $1B+ business. I work and travel some insane hours. I commute 1 hour each way to work. I have been out of the country 4 of the last 6 weeks. I have calls with China at 6AM the morning.

I never miss my kids events. I take all of my vacation or close to it. I make it a point to let everyone known leaving the office to get to my kids’ play, soccer game, band concert, whatever.

Balance is about culture and it’s set by the leaders. I lead by example. I leave early on Fridays. I come in late because it was donuts with dad at school. I make sure people know that. And when it comes time to put in the extra, travel like crazy, or whatever, I do that too. You can do both. It’s hard. If you are not in environment where you can...find one.
Thank you for this response! As someone who has spent the last 10 years travelling for work (IT and management consulting), this is very refreshing.

EddyB
Posts: 1137
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by EddyB » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:19 pm

FIREchief wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:03 pm
Power, sense of fulfillment, money. You really only get to keep one of those when you FIRE.
At first I took this as sarcasm. Then I had second thoughts.
It seems like lots of people are planning on having plenty of money for their needs and wants, and actually increasing their sense of fulfillment.

SrGrumpy
Posts: 1193
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:21 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by SrGrumpy » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:51 pm

bigtex wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:46 am
I am at a point where boss says I can be promoted but must be willing to work more hours be available at all times of day etc.
Much depends on the boss's tone and what was unspoken. Are you expected to seek promotion? Or was (s)he subtly warning you NOT to seek promotion? How does the company treat others who have refused promotion? Could you at least pretend to be ambitious - walk around with an earnest look on your face?

User avatar
FIREchief
Posts: 3788
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:40 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by FIREchief » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:36 pm

EddyB wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:19 pm
FIREchief wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:03 pm
Power, sense of fulfillment, money. You really only get to keep one of those when you FIRE.
At first I took this as sarcasm. Then I had second thoughts.
It seems like lots of people are planning on having plenty of money for their needs and wants, and actually increasing their sense of fulfillment.
Maybe a bit tongue in cheek, but certainly not sarcasm. Just the observation of one FIREee who spent over three decades at Megacorp, including some climbing of the ladder (although, at Megacorp, for me it was a bit more like shoots and ladders). I absolutely saw fellow climbers motivated by varying combinations of those three factors. The ones who craved power and actually got a strong sense of fulfillment were the ones who made it to the top. It seemed to be self motivating, in that they would be miserable if they weren't giving the d*mned place 120% of their energy along with a healthy slice of their soul. These are the folks who retire and/or get shoved out and spend the rest of their lives trying to fill the voids through expensive habits (more travel, bigger RVs, more collector cars, vacation homes, etc.) and driving their families nuts. Some pry their way back into Megacorp as part time retirees, and spend years trying to recapture past glory. I've know of a few who "retired" three or four times. They're like vampires. Leadership and HR do their best to drive a stake through their heart, but next thing you know their back trying to suck more out of the place.

I will say this. I've rarely observed much correlation between "plenty of money" and "sense of fulfillment." Often, quite the opposite.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

HEDGEFUNDIE
Posts: 3973
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:06 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:47 pm

GmanJeff wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:47 pm
Don't discount the $. I suspect that many employees in large corporations have no idea how much money the senior executives make, and not just the top 2 or 3 people in the company, but at the SVP and EVP level. With equity, bonuses, executive stock purchase programs and other perks, the total annual compensation can be what many would consider very substantial (e.g. mid-upper six figures in a Fortune 1000 company) and can make for a very different retirement than you otherwise may be able to reasonably contemplate in terms of both how early you'll be able to afford to retire and what your retirement income and financial security in retirement will look like.
+1000

At my Bay Area tech MegaCorp, run-of-the-mill VPs are pulling down $1M/yr. There are a few dozen of them running around HQ.

fastrak99
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:02 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by fastrak99 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:54 pm

The point of climbing the corporate ladder is like the point of doing anything else in life. It comes with its pros, cons, risks and rewards. Much like any other field / topic / area of life there will be people naturally drawn to that, some who vehemently oppose and despise corporate structure and hierarchy and everything in between.

I am not drawn to titles, having a boss, managing tons of employees, letting a corp control my paycheck (or lack thereof), or fighting for that corner office. I left the corporate world at an early age (25), and became an instant ‘ceo’ of my own business, without any need for promotion (I think of it as a shortcut!).

Luckily with enough work, trial and error and great timing - things have worked out, and I will never have to be put into the box of figuring out what climbing the ladder is really like.

But to me, like anything else, it is based on the person – what they want, what they enjoy, how bad they want it and the sacrifices they are willing to make. There is no easy answer of which route to take and usually involves a bit (a lot) of self awareness, trial and error, a supportive spouse and having a strong personal value system in place to nail it correctly.

Starfish
Posts: 1546
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:33 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by Starfish » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:14 am

djpeteski wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:56 am
bigtex wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:46 am
Whats the point of climbing the corporate ladder if I'm fine with my current salary and position and can hit all my financial goals without future promotions raises etc? I am at a point where boss says I can be promoted but must be willing to work more hours be available at all times of day etc. Basically my work life balance spending time with family and kids goes away but now I make more money. Why not just stay where I am if I can still hit my financial goals for retirement etc?
Kind of like this:

An American investment banker was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican replied, “only a little while. The American then asked why didn’t he stay out longer and catch more fish? The Mexican said he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs. The American then asked, “but what do you do with the rest of your time?”

The Mexican fisherman said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siestas with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine, and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life.” The American scoffed, “I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats, eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing, and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City, where you will run your expanding enterprise.”

The Mexican fisherman asked, “But, how long will this all take?”

To which the American replied, “15 – 20 years.”

“But what then?” Asked the Mexican.

The American laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions!”

“Millions – then what?”

The American said, “Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siestas with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”
Except:
1. No wife, divorced.
2. No kids, grew up and hate him.
3. No amigos, it takes a life to make friends and he is a despised gringo.

Life doesn't come back.

Starfish
Posts: 1546
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:33 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by Starfish » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:16 am

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:47 pm
GmanJeff wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:47 pm
Don't discount the $. I suspect that many employees in large corporations have no idea how much money the senior executives make, and not just the top 2 or 3 people in the company, but at the SVP and EVP level. With equity, bonuses, executive stock purchase programs and other perks, the total annual compensation can be what many would consider very substantial (e.g. mid-upper six figures in a Fortune 1000 company) and can make for a very different retirement than you otherwise may be able to reasonably contemplate in terms of both how early you'll be able to afford to retire and what your retirement income and financial security in retirement will look like.
+1000

At my Bay Area tech MegaCorp, run-of-the-mill VPs are pulling down $1M/yr. There are a few dozen of them running around HQ.
Top level pure technical people in Google make up to 700k. Probably there are a few dozen of them too.

investingdad
Posts: 1687
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:41 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by investingdad » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:31 am

I started a thread like this a few months ago.

For me, I don't see the point. My wife and I are mid 40s and hit the 2 comma club at 39 through aggressive saving and index fund investing. It's only increased since then.

I was on a recent biz trip on the corporate jet with a senior VP and I think for a lot of those that reach that rung, it's a power trip. Frankly, I'd rather be watching my kids' soccer practices at 6pm at night than fielding calls from the workaholic CEO.

I did smile inwardly and wonder if the VP dude would have been surprised to know the lower level individual contributor engineer on the jet with him had a... comfy... portfolio.

User avatar
Cyclesafe
Posts: 1006
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:03 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by Cyclesafe » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:57 am

daheld wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:03 am
livesoft wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:49 am
Because you will be fired to make room for the people that you are blocking behind you.
Where I work, the inverse is actually true. The higher you climb, the easier it is for you to be fired.
Actually, these are both true at the same time. Work is a hamster wheel...
"Plans are useless; planning is indispensable.” - Dwight Eisenhower

mak1277
Posts: 1209
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:26 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by mak1277 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:59 am

investingdad wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:31 am
I started a thread like this a few months ago.

For me, I don't see the point. My wife and I are mid 40s and hit the 2 comma club at 39 through aggressive saving and index fund investing. It's only increased since then.

I was on a recent biz trip on the corporate jet with a senior VP and I think for a lot of those that reach that rung, it's a power trip. Frankly, I'd rather be watching my kids' soccer practices at 6pm at night than fielding calls from the workaholic CEO.

I did smile inwardly and wonder if the VP dude would have been surprised to know the lower level individual contributor engineer on the jet with him had a... comfy... portfolio.
All depends on what you consider "comfy". If you're happy with $1 or 2 million, that's great. If you're a high level exec though you're potentially talking many multiples of that.

investingdad
Posts: 1687
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:41 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by investingdad » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:03 am

mak1277 wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:59 am
investingdad wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:31 am
I started a thread like this a few months ago.

For me, I don't see the point. My wife and I are mid 40s and hit the 2 comma club at 39 through aggressive saving and index fund investing. It's only increased since then.

I was on a recent biz trip on the corporate jet with a senior VP and I think for a lot of those that reach that rung, it's a power trip. Frankly, I'd rather be watching my kids' soccer practices at 6pm at night than fielding calls from the workaholic CEO.

I did smile inwardly and wonder if the VP dude would have been surprised to know the lower level individual contributor engineer on the jet with him had a... comfy... portfolio.
All depends on what you consider "comfy". If you're happy with $1 or 2 million, that's great. If you're a high level exec though you're potentially talking many multiples of that.
Agreed. And it really is a question of tradeoffs. For me and my wife, the tradeoffs are just not worth it. I couldn't imagine doing this crap into my late 60s and early 70s like they are.

User avatar
munemaker
Posts: 4147
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:14 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by munemaker » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:05 am

bigtex wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:46 am
Whats the point of climbing the corporate ladder if I'm fine with my current salary and position and can hit all my financial goals without future promotions raises etc?
Personally, I enjoyed having more control over what I do every day. I would rather be the ping pong paddle than the ball. To each her own though.

mak1277
Posts: 1209
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:26 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by mak1277 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:07 am

investingdad wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:03 am
mak1277 wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:59 am
investingdad wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:31 am
I started a thread like this a few months ago.

For me, I don't see the point. My wife and I are mid 40s and hit the 2 comma club at 39 through aggressive saving and index fund investing. It's only increased since then.

I was on a recent biz trip on the corporate jet with a senior VP and I think for a lot of those that reach that rung, it's a power trip. Frankly, I'd rather be watching my kids' soccer practices at 6pm at night than fielding calls from the workaholic CEO.

I did smile inwardly and wonder if the VP dude would have been surprised to know the lower level individual contributor engineer on the jet with him had a... comfy... portfolio.
All depends on what you consider "comfy". If you're happy with $1 or 2 million, that's great. If you're a high level exec though you're potentially talking many multiples of that.
Agreed. And it really is a question of tradeoffs. For me and my wife, the tradeoffs are just not worth it. I couldn't imagine doing this crap into my late 60s and early 70s like they are.
Yeah, I mean that's a completely different story. WIth the exception of our CEO, all of the senior executives at my company are in their early- to mid-50s. They'll all likely retire before 60 with dozens of millions.

DaftInvestor
Posts: 4842
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:11 am

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by DaftInvestor » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:08 am

It's unfortunate that culture in a lot of companies seems to be that the higher you climb the more you have to work.
My philosophy is to work smart and not work more hours focusing on results and the things that really matter to revenue/earnings.
Luckily - I have found companies that believe in work-life balance and I have actually worked a bit less (less to prove) as I've climbed.
Why did I do it (climb a bit up the corporate ladder)? To triple my income and elevate my opportunities/challenges.

I also believe if you are happy with what you do and your income there should be no reason to move further up. Some folks hit the rung where they belong and should certainly avoid being over-promoted beyond their abilities/gumption.

lostdog
Posts: 2116
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:15 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by lostdog » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:11 am

Get to financial independence and have a decent emergency fund asap.

The American culture is based on working and dieing at your desk and having nice stuff.

If you do get let go, you'll be FI and have a nice cash cushion until you get another job. Not worth losing your family time. Stick with your current position but find ways to be more valuable.
VTWAX and chill.

SRenaeP
Posts: 960
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:05 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by SRenaeP » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:22 am

Bacchus01 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:17 pm
bigtex wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:06 am
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:13 am
daheld wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:03 am
Where I work, the inverse is actually true. The higher you climb, the easier it is for you to be fired.
Perhaps, but at least if you are higher up you have a fighting chance at influencing your fate. Peons have to just accept layoffs as they come. In other words, you want to be at the table, not on the table. And even if you do get fired as a Director/ VP, the severance packages are much better.
Ged wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:05 am
bigtex wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:46 am
Whats the point of climbing the corporate ladder if I'm fine with my current salary and position and can hit all my financial goals without future promotions raises etc?
Livesoft pointed out one of the dangers of this approach. Another is that you will max out your pay for the job you are doing, making replacement by a younger lower paid person with fresher skills likely.

If you don't want to be a manager (and I can definitely understand that) you still need to look for other ways to increase your value to your company over time.
+1

OP should google “growth mindset”

I have the growth mindset and have communicated this to my company, but is it worth it at the expense of not having family time anymore, high stress, not getting to be at my kid's events etc?
I run a $1B+ business. I work and travel some insane hours. I commute 1 hour each way to work. I have been out of the country 4 of the last 6 weeks. I have calls with China at 6AM the morning.

I never miss my kids events. I take all of my vacation or close to it. I make it a point to let everyone known leaving the office to get to my kids’ play, soccer game, band concert, whatever.

Balance is about culture and it’s set by the leaders. I lead by example. I leave early on Fridays. I come in late because it was donuts with dad at school. I make sure people know that. And when it comes time to put in the extra, travel like crazy, or whatever, I do that too. You can do both. It’s hard. If you are not in environment where you can...find one.
(Emphasis mine). Exactly. This is actually one of the reasons I'm considering a move to management (as in managing people) vs my current role as a project manager. I want (perhaps naively and/or optimistically) to be able to influence the culture. I want to model working smarter, not harder, and that work life balance is important. Happy people are happy employees.

scottgekko
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:02 am

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by scottgekko » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:43 am

There is no way I could stop striving to advance and ride it out for 20 years. I've found that the more I move up, the more flexible the position is. You're not 'on the clock' and as long as you're getting the job done, no one bothers you. But I enjoy the challenge of the job. I also enjoy my time off and have a family and hobbies as well. So I definitely don't live to work. It's just a part of my life that I enjoy and also pays me well and I'll take the next promotion when offered.

I average abt 45-50 hours a week and I answer emails or take a few calls outside of work hours, but that sure as hell beats someone else setting my breaks and lunches and being tied to a desk. I work in finance/mortgage servicing. I"m sure individual contributor roles are different in other industries...

JBTX
Posts: 5743
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:46 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by JBTX » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:00 pm

livesoft wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:49 am
Because you will be fired to make room for the people that you are blocking behind you.
This is true with any generalized operations management track or most corporate departments. It may not always be true in certain technical areas like IT, certain types of engineering, legal or specialized accounting like tax or specialty auditors.

Random Poster
Posts: 1920
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:17 am

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by Random Poster » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:50 pm

mak1277 wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:59 am
investingdad wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:31 am
I started a thread like this a few months ago.

For me, I don't see the point. My wife and I are mid 40s and hit the 2 comma club at 39 through aggressive saving and index fund investing. It's only increased since then.

I was on a recent biz trip on the corporate jet with a senior VP and I think for a lot of those that reach that rung, it's a power trip. Frankly, I'd rather be watching my kids' soccer practices at 6pm at night than fielding calls from the workaholic CEO.

I did smile inwardly and wonder if the VP dude would have been surprised to know the lower level individual contributor engineer on the jet with him had a... comfy... portfolio.
All depends on what you consider "comfy". If you're happy with $1 or 2 million, that's great. If you're a high level exec though you're potentially talking many multiples of that.
Well, maybe.

The high level executives may make a lot of money, but they tend to spend a lot of money too.

Perhaps it is all relative and evens-out in the end.

pacodelostigres
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:14 am

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by pacodelostigres » Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:23 pm

SQRT wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:47 am
During my career, quite a while ago, I had to “let go” people who had basically retired on the job. Not saying the OP would do this but a mindset of low ambition, lack of improvement, complaining about the bosses, etc can often mean being unemployed in your early ‘50’s. If you aren’t progressing it can often mean you are falling behind. Of course there are always exceptions and environments vary by industry somewhat.
I would hate this outcome. I'm doing what OP suggested, and if I'm not unemployed by my early 50's I've failed. Badly. I want out by 45 at the worst.

Seriously though, I was a manager on a Director track at a job I hated and 'downgraded' to an individual performer role at about 75% of the pay at a different company. My bosses now love me because I'm wildly overqualified and can either get things done in half the time as my peers or I can just flat do things they can't.

There's no obligation to accept other people's definition of success. And if you get bounced from a current individual performer job, well there are a lot more of them out there than Director level jobs.

Bacchus01
Posts: 3182
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:35 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by Bacchus01 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:21 pm

Random Poster wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:50 pm
mak1277 wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:59 am
investingdad wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:31 am
I started a thread like this a few months ago.

For me, I don't see the point. My wife and I are mid 40s and hit the 2 comma club at 39 through aggressive saving and index fund investing. It's only increased since then.

I was on a recent biz trip on the corporate jet with a senior VP and I think for a lot of those that reach that rung, it's a power trip. Frankly, I'd rather be watching my kids' soccer practices at 6pm at night than fielding calls from the workaholic CEO.

I did smile inwardly and wonder if the VP dude would have been surprised to know the lower level individual contributor engineer on the jet with him had a... comfy... portfolio.
All depends on what you consider "comfy". If you're happy with $1 or 2 million, that's great. If you're a high level exec though you're potentially talking many multiples of that.
Well, maybe.

The high level executives may make a lot of money, but they tend to spend a lot of money too.

Perhaps it is all relative and evens-out in the end.
Not all of them

H-Town
Posts: 2252
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:08 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by H-Town » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:50 pm

bigtex wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:46 am
Whats the point of climbing the corporate ladder if I'm fine with my current salary and position and can hit all my financial goals without future promotions raises etc? I am at a point where boss says I can be promoted but must be willing to work more hours be available at all times of day etc. Basically my work life balance spending time with family and kids goes away but now I make more money. Why not just stay where I am if I can still hit my financial goals for retirement etc?
Life is boring without any challenges. Be the best at what you do or it's a failure. Money, rewards, promotions are just by-products of your overachieving mindset.

Atilla
Posts: 1399
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by Atilla » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:08 pm

I work in sales on commission. Over 15 years ago was asked if I'd take a sales management position.

Hesitated maybe a second before telling the owner of the company to pound sand.

Today I'm the second-highest paid employee of the company doing the same thing - make it rain. :moneybag

Sometimes a man's gotta know his limitations. My former sales manager is now concierge at an assisted living facility.
Last edited by Atilla on Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Moderator Warning-Free Since 2017.

blackholescion
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:41 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by blackholescion » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:11 pm

mak1277 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:45 pm
bigtex wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:46 am
Whats the point of climbing the corporate ladder if I'm fine with my current salary and position and can hit all my financial goals without future promotions raises etc? I am at a point where boss says I can be promoted but must be willing to work more hours be available at all times of day etc. Basically my work life balance spending time with family and kids goes away but now I make more money. Why not just stay where I am if I can still hit my financial goals for retirement etc?
The way I look at it is in terms of total hours worked. If you get promoted and have to work 50% more hours for 10 years, but get paid enough that you can retire 10 years earlier, then you win in the long term (obviously there are other tradeoffs to going from 40 to 60 hour weeks though). But the way I look at it is that I'd be willing to kill myself for a short period if the result was fewer total hours in the long term.
10 years is not a short time. 60-80 hour weeks for even 6 months kill people. Just look at the game industry. You have no guarantee you will get any reward for those hours.

sambb
Posts: 2691
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:31 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by sambb » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:19 am

bigtex wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:46 am
Whats the point of climbing the corporate ladder if I'm fine with my current salary and position and can hit all my financial goals without future promotions raises etc? I am at a point where boss says I can be promoted but must be willing to work more hours be available at all times of day etc. Basically my work life balance spending time with family and kids goes away but now I make more money. Why not just stay where I am if I can still hit my financial goals for retirement etc?
Some individuals believe passionately in the mission of the organization and they love to grow that mission. This also makes work much more fun and satisfying.

JTColton
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:41 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by JTColton » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:14 am

blackholescion wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:11 pm
mak1277 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:45 pm
The way I look at it is in terms of total hours worked. If you get promoted and have to work 50% more hours for 10 years, but get paid enough that you can retire 10 years earlier, then you win in the long term (obviously there are other tradeoffs to going from 40 to 60 hour weeks though). But the way I look at it is that I'd be willing to kill myself for a short period if the result was fewer total hours in the long term.
10 years is not a short time. 60-80 hour weeks for even 6 months kill people. Just look at the game industry. You have no guarantee you will get any reward for those hours.
Absolutely ridiculous, completely ignores what that does to the body which is both surprising and disappointing from a community that is so concerned about health during old age.

50% more hours for 10 years, let assume a conservative average 1hr roundtrip commute and an above average 8 hours of sleep a night = 21 hours. That leaves you 3 hours a day to do everything else. Spouse time, kid time, cooking, cleaning, exercise. More realistic is 2 hrs/day spent commuting and 4-5 hours of home time with you getting 4-6 hours of sleep a night. Sleeping less than 8 hours for only a week will begin cognitive declines in 90%+ of people.

mak1277
Posts: 1209
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:26 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by mak1277 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:33 am

JTColton wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:14 am
blackholescion wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:11 pm
mak1277 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:45 pm
The way I look at it is in terms of total hours worked. If you get promoted and have to work 50% more hours for 10 years, but get paid enough that you can retire 10 years earlier, then you win in the long term (obviously there are other tradeoffs to going from 40 to 60 hour weeks though). But the way I look at it is that I'd be willing to kill myself for a short period if the result was fewer total hours in the long term.
10 years is not a short time. 60-80 hour weeks for even 6 months kill people. Just look at the game industry. You have no guarantee you will get any reward for those hours.
Absolutely ridiculous, completely ignores what that does to the body which is both surprising and disappointing from a community that is so concerned about health during old age.

50% more hours for 10 years, let assume a conservative average 1hr roundtrip commute and an above average 8 hours of sleep a night = 21 hours. That leaves you 3 hours a day to do everything else. Spouse time, kid time, cooking, cleaning, exercise. More realistic is 2 hrs/day spent commuting and 4-5 hours of home time with you getting 4-6 hours of sleep a night. Sleeping less than 8 hours for only a week will begin cognitive declines in 90%+ of people.
I'm not saying I recommend it, or that I'd do it myself (again), I'm just saying that's how I might consider it. The first 15 years of my career I worked in a job where I averaged 50 hours a week and worked up to 80 during busy periods. It's not fun but it's doable, and if you're properly compensated it might be worth it. And 10 years *is* a short time if the alternative is 25 or 30 years. If I was 30 or 35 and had two options (1 - 60 hour weeks for a decade or 2 - 40 hour weeks for 30 years), I'd have a hard time passing up on option 1.

fortunefavored
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by fortunefavored » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:46 am

mak1277 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:33 am
If I was 30 or 35 and had two options (1 - 60 hour weeks for a decade or 2 - 40 hour weeks for 30 years), I'd have a hard time passing up on option 1.
This is basically what I did. Now in my OMY (one-more-year) in my mid-40s. Know thyself - I know I could not have done 30 more years of boring day-to-day grind, even at 6 hours/day. Diving into the shark infested waters made sense at the time.

investingdad
Posts: 1687
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:41 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by investingdad » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:53 am

I will add this (because it's true for my wife and I):

If you and your spouse are both working professionally and earning comparable salaries, and you both saved (and subsequently invested) a lot starting in your 20s by living below your means, the need to climb the ladder is greatly diminished for both of you.

A couple where each spouse cracks 100k before 40 and has been making FIRE a priority from the get go has the incredible luxury of sidestepping a lot of corporate nonsense.

regularguy455
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:08 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by regularguy455 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:03 am

I haven’t read anyone saying this yet, but this is a fantastic thread. Thanks for all the great posts! Lots of different perspectives from people who have done it.

Topic Author
bigtex
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:34 am

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by bigtex » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:10 am

investingdad wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:53 am
I will add this (because it's true for my wife and I):

If you and your spouse are both working professionally and earning comparable salaries, and you both saved (and subsequently invested) a lot starting in your 20s by living below your means, the need to climb the ladder is greatly diminished for both of you.

A couple where each spouse cracks 100k before 40 and has been making FIRE a priority from the get go has the incredible luxury of sidestepping a lot of corporate nonsense.
Yes this describes us. I don't want to quit working at 40, but I dont want to be on the corporate ladder anymore.

Slacker
Posts: 721
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by Slacker » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:20 am

I look for challenges in the next engineering problem to solve.

I've made the move to management before. It was horrible for me (despite the additional pay), because the job became very boring. Solving the technical questions at the individual level was more exciting for me as opposed to directing a group at a problem...much prefer a "senior engineer" role to mentor juniors and still get my hands dirty over a management role.

User avatar
market timer
Posts: 6191
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:42 am

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by market timer » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:24 am

Having moved several rungs up the ladder in my career, I can say that the higher I am on the totem pole, the better I feel the job suits my abilities and interests. I'm terrible at execution and have ADD that makes me very inefficient at doing tasks, but I'm good at high level strategy and coming up with big ideas. Work/life balance has improved with each step, and I enjoy that the scale of problems has increased exponentially.

While I've enjoyed moving up, my motivation has generally been to work on interesting and consequential problems. I tend to think of career progression not as a ladder to be climbed linearly, but as a series of start-ups where I'm the CEO. For me, moving ahead is not the end goal, nor is getting a raise. I'm primarily motivated to create things and come up with elegant solutions to big, complex problems. It's really closer to art than business for me.

Cycle
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 7:57 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by Cycle » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:02 am

GmanJeff wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:47 pm
Don't discount the $. I suspect that many employees in large corporations have no idea how much money the senior executives make, and not just the top 2 or 3 people in the company, but at the SVP and EVP level. With equity, bonuses, executive stock purchase programs and other perks, the total annual compensation can be what many would consider very substantial (e.g. mid-upper six figures in a Fortune 1000 company) and can make for a very different retirement than you otherwise may be able to reasonably contemplate in terms of both how early you'll be able to afford to retire and what your retirement income and financial security in retirement will look like.

As others have said, in some companies the higher you are in the hierarchy the less actual work you have to do in front of a computer or elsewhere, and you're less likely to be challenged about how you do use your time as long as the business keep humming along. So your stress level may go down rather than up, you may find you have more scheduling flexibility to attend kids' activities during the day, and so on. Conversely, you could end up traveling more, or working longer hours; you'd need to understand your company's culture and the expectations for the types of positions you'd advance to. Echoing a prior post, executives also get dramatically better severance packages when let go without cause, mitigating that risk to some extent.

In other words, don't assume that being promoted necessarily means less time at home, more stress, and other drawbacks in return for a modest increase in compensation. The reality may (or may not) be quite different and much more appealing for those fortunate enough to find the right roles in the right companies.
My wife's boss is a director at a fortune 500 company. He arrives at the office at 7:30 and leaves at 3:30. Role: quality

My boss is a director also at a fortune 500 company. He arrives at 8:30 and leaves at 7, sometimes 9 Role: R&D

These director positions make boat loads of money, but can be time consuming.

I think it is possible to work 40hrs a week as a director, but depends on the organization.
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way

JTColton
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:41 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by JTColton » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:50 am

mak1277 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:33 am
I'm not saying I recommend it, or that I'd do it myself (again), I'm just saying that's how I might consider it. The first 15 years of my career I worked in a job where I averaged 50 hours a week and worked up to 80 during busy periods. It's not fun but it's doable, and if you're properly compensated it might be worth it. And 10 years *is* a short time if the alternative is 25 or 30 years. If I was 30 or 35 and had two options (1 - 60 hour weeks for a decade or 2 - 40 hour weeks for 30 years), I'd have a hard time passing up on option 1.
Fair point, we all have to ask ourselves "is it worth it?".

But too often we forget or downplay the human costs we bear to such endeavors. Health, relationships, personal interests etc which are viewed somewhat transparently in a whole life assessment similar to how one would only look at how much dividends a portfolio yields instead of the total return. Is it worth it to run yourself into the ground for 10 years for more money? I didn't think so. Many of my peers thought so and are subsequently receiving disability benefits which they cant enjoy due to myriad physical ailments, or they lost half their pensions when their wives divorced them on and on and on.

My $0.02 is ask yourself "is it worth it?" and be honest with yourself. Don't let others' (or society's) opinion of success and failure define you.

Nova1967
Posts: 203
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 3:22 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by Nova1967 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:12 pm

It depends on your values, If you like managing people then a managerial position might be suitable.
In the military its unlikely you can stay a private your entire career because you don't want to give orders.
It has it advantages and disadvantages, After College every job I ever had paid more than my boss because they offered unlimited overtime. The Boss was strictly on salary. The disadvantage is if you turn down a Managerial position you could end up working for someone who is very disturbed, unreasonable and will want you to do all the work. I've had this happen.

blackholescion
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:41 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by blackholescion » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:37 pm

JTColton wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:50 am
mak1277 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:33 am
I'm not saying I recommend it, or that I'd do it myself (again), I'm just saying that's how I might consider it. The first 15 years of my career I worked in a job where I averaged 50 hours a week and worked up to 80 during busy periods. It's not fun but it's doable, and if you're properly compensated it might be worth it. And 10 years *is* a short time if the alternative is 25 or 30 years. If I was 30 or 35 and had two options (1 - 60 hour weeks for a decade or 2 - 40 hour weeks for 30 years), I'd have a hard time passing up on option 1.
Fair point, we all have to ask ourselves "is it worth it?".

But too often we forget or downplay the human costs we bear to such endeavors. Health, relationships, personal interests etc which are viewed somewhat transparently in a whole life assessment similar to how one would only look at how much dividends a portfolio yields instead of the total return. Is it worth it to run yourself into the ground for 10 years for more money? I didn't think so. Many of my peers thought so and are subsequently receiving disability benefits which they cant enjoy due to myriad physical ailments, or they lost half their pensions when their wives divorced them on and on and on.

My $0.02 is ask yourself "is it worth it?" and be honest with yourself. Don't let others' (or society's) opinion of success and failure define you.
I agree. It's everyone's personal decision. When you're forced into it and it's stressful and your health suffers, and your kids don't even know you because you're always at the office, is it worth it?

I work for a director as an IC. She works and emails seemingly constantly. Her boss does the same with 3 little girls. He wakes up at 4 in the morning to be able to do family stuff, exercise, etc. That means, after work and dinner, he has no time for himself. I value my personal time so this is a nonstarter for me. It takes a lot of sacrifice on both parties (if married) to maintain 60+ hour work weeks. The last 5 years I've more than doubled my salary but it was due to 50-70 hour weeks. Would I do it again knowing what I know now? Not even once. My health has suffered, physically and mentally, and it's a challenge to come back down.

I firmly believe that one can work 40-45 hours and still make decent money and be able to expand their career. Too many people spend their 1 hour lunches in 90 minute increments and their water cooler breaks chatting with Felicia about current events and don't get their work done, therefore putting more stress on top performers to pick up the slack. If you have ownership and work hard, there's really no need to exceed 40 unless it's truly your passion or you really enjoy it. As much as I love software development and programming in general, I also value having some personal time in my life.

international001
Posts: 1201
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:31 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by international001 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:28 pm

It looks to me most of the people here is very boglehead and the work is very money oriented
You have to balance it against family, but work *may* also be a source of satisfaction by itself

If you are doing it just for money, it's logical and empirically asserted that after some point you'll prefer to work less
You have to find your optimal spot. It's kind of the efficient frontier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backward_ ... _of_labour

Stormbringer
Posts: 895
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:07 am

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by Stormbringer » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:39 pm

It always seemed like a fool's errand to me:
  • The higher you get, it becomes like Game of Thrones, with everyone competing and backstabbing for the positions above them.
  • The vast majority of the people I know who have tried get stuck in horrible middle-management jobs and never move any higher.
  • Many of those who land upper level jobs don't survive long because of the Peter Principle.
  • Even if you are successful, for a similar level of effort you could have built your own business, made far more money and been more fulfilled.
Yes, there are success stories, but for every person who rises to the top, there seems to be thousand lost souls.
"Compound interest is the most powerful force in the universe." - Albert Einstein

financeidiot
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:10 pm

Re: Whats the Point of Climbing the Corporate Ladder?

Post by financeidiot » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:38 pm

Sharks gotta swim.

In terms of "time" or "busyness" a lot of what we hear is made up. It's more important to appear busy than to actually be busy. There was an HBR study awhile back on how employees at a consulting firm represent their hours to make themselves appear more busy vs. hours actually worked (https://hbr.org/2015/04/why-some-men-pr ... hour-weeks). Was illuminating and as soon as I changed some of my language and self-marketing (not my hours) I immediately got more compliments, more selection over my work, and more pay, even though my actual workload is the same.

Post Reply