What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

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afan
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by afan » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:02 pm

I would never consider investing with someone, or otherwise hiring them to do anything for me, if the relationship started with them buying me lunch. What a waste of time. I would not want a chat, I would want data, facts, numbers, written down, not given orally. I would have no interest in meeting my advisor in person. For what? I don't care what they look like or how firm their handshakes may be. I care about how good they are at doing the job I need done, and what it will cost.
If you hire this person you will not only pay for your free lunch, but those of every other prospect who does not bite on the offer.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama

FrankLUSMC
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by FrankLUSMC » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:03 pm

Strayshot wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:21 pm
Call him and tell him that you met someone who would manage your assets for 4% AUM and you figured that since it would cost more you will be getting much better advice.
See what he says.
Then mention you were just joking and were going to use Vanguard PAS at .3%
See what he says.
Then tell him you met a bunch of strangers on the internet who will do it for free and you will probably go that route.
That’s what I would do!
Lol! I spewed my Rum and Coke on this one!!

GCD
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by GCD » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:06 pm

By reading here you have undoubtedly come across 4% as a SWD. So in retirement you would pay this guy 50% of your income?

He is a predator.

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F150HD
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by F150HD » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:50 pm

Yes it is. I'm going to make the call now and then....embrace. Please wish me luck!
not sure why you'd call- only gives him the opportunity to try to sell to you a second time. Send an email, politely worded, and let them process it offsite.

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Cody6136
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by Cody6136 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:54 pm

FrankLUSMC wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:03 pm
Strayshot wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:21 pm
Call him and tell him that you met someone who would manage your assets for 4% AUM and you figured that since it would cost more you will be getting much better advice.
See what he says.
Then mention you were just joking and were going to use Vanguard PAS at .3%
See what he says.
Then tell him you met a bunch of strangers on the internet who will do it for free and you will probably go that route.
That’s what I would do!
Lol! I spewed my Rum and Coke on this one!!

Yeah, this was the post of the day...that, and the one that suggested that I misbehave until he fires me!

drawpoker
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by drawpoker » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:35 pm

After carefully reading thru all the posts to this thread - my conclusion is this:

The 2% man thought the OP was going to be "easy pickings" when he learned his AA included precious metals (gold) in storage.

Just sayin', ya know.........................

gold99xx
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by gold99xx » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:03 pm

Can someone please update the WIKI page. A very WISE mentor once taught me that:

" FREE IS THE MOST EXPENSIVE"

And boy was he correct, NEVER take a free meal from anyone connected to finance! This can also apply to loads of other things...

:sharebeer

student
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by student » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:10 pm

2%. :shock: :shock: :shock:

You owe him NOTHING.

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calmaniac
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by calmaniac » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:41 pm

Cody6136,

Congrats! You dodged a bullet. There are lots of folks who only learn to get rid of their parasite after several years of blood sucking (search for "Edward Jones" on the B-heads website for some entertainment). And those of us that have never been taken advantage of by an AUM thief have our own horror stories (my personal was the 2000 tech bubble). Bottom line, you have much to learn and this is a great place to start.

I saw someone had suggested William Bernstein's "If You Can", mini-e-book. I'd also suggest his book "The Four Pillars of Investing".

Welcome.

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beyou
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by beyou » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:19 pm

I transfered an IRA acct from my own cousin.
Didn’t feel too bad when I saw the family discount was a ripoff. He still sometimes tries to sell me insurance.

Treated my cousin better than others in that I gave him a chance. Most salespersons do not get a goodbye if they happen to call and I pickup, just hear a click and I am gone.

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Darth Xanadu
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by Darth Xanadu » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:21 pm

Cody6136 wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:55 pm
He kept saying, the entirety of your portfolio, waving his hand across the entire paper. Your assets, as they might come into play as we fix your situation.

"They might come into play," I repeated?

"Yes. As we fix your situation."
Ugh ... This makes me squeamish.
"A courageous teacher, failure is."

basspond
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by basspond » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:38 am

Everybody that takes a “free” lunch with investment advisors should realize they are ingesting the returns of the advisors’ clients. I attended a couple of these and saw the light. Just tell him the truth. I would focus on the issue he could not give you a definite answer on what is considered your assets.

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Tamarind
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by Tamarind » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:53 am

Another voice for not meeting with him again. Professional courtesy might suggest that you send him an email letting him know you've changed your mind, but does not require it. You need not respond further to the inevitable plea to explain why you have made a different decision than he wanted to hear.

Consider what you would owe a sales rep who pitched you something in a store, or who called you up to sell you over the phone. Just common politeness, right? No special consideration, no right to an explanation of your thoughts. Despite titles and certifications, this guy is just another kind of sales rep. He will write off your free lunch as a marketing expense, because that's what it was.

FireProof
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by FireProof » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:58 am

I''d have fun stringing him along a bit - any time wasted on you is not spent fleecing innocent people. A classic trophy is to get him to send you a picture with a fish on his head: https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... 2TN0TBZgiE

Olemiss540
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by Olemiss540 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:57 am

Watty wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:34 pm
Just FYI, the 2% fee for the assets under management was likely just the tip of the iceberg. It is very likely that he would have invested the money in some combination of funds with high fees, loads, and maybe annuities.

You dodged a bullet.
This is a certainty. Once you realize the 1.2 ER funds you have with this person also have a 4.75 front end load which is all above and beyond the 2% AUM you will realize why we term these folks "theives" instead of just salesmen.
I hold index funds because I do not overestimate my ability to pick stocks OR stock pickers.

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nedsaid
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by nedsaid » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:17 am

A two percent Assets Under Management Fee is excessive. Charging that fee on your home equity and upon stored gold just seems fishy to me. You got an hour and a half sales pitch, you have no obligation to him.
A fool and his money are good for business.

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WWJBDo
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by WWJBDo » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:30 am

I’m a little late to the party, but I learned this phrase, which is pretty rock solid and hard for a sales guy to rebut:

“Circumstances have changed, and I’m not at liberty to explain why.”

State and repeat.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." Upton Sinclair

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Cody6136
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by Cody6136 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:42 am

WWJBDo wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:30 am
I’m a little late to the party, but I learned this phrase, which is pretty rock solid and hard for a sales guy to rebut:

“Circumstances have changed, and I’m not at liberty to explain why.”

State and repeat.
Your quote, and the quote on your signature are kind of perfect, and I'm going to need them as he has called twice so far this morning.

Sigh.

Escape velocity!!!

KESP
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by KESP » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:18 am

You can do this!!! It's uncomfortable for some of us to break up with someone, but you will feel great afterward. Just tell him you've decided to not have him handle your assets and to discuss it further is a waste of time because your mind is made up. Keep saying that until he shuts up.

KESP
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by KESP » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:20 am

WWJBDo wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:30 am
I’m a little late to the party, but I learned this phrase, which is pretty rock solid and hard for a sales guy to rebut:

“Circumstances have changed, and I’m not at liberty to explain why.”

State and repeat.
That's a better one! Say that.

FoolMeOnce
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by FoolMeOnce » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:24 am

If you do talk to him, do not provide details of your plans, like using just a few funds, asset allocation, etc. That will give him an opening to criticize specific points, which might lead to self-doubt. Maybe don't even mention self-directing.

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Cody6136
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by Cody6136 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:34 am

FoolMeOnce wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:24 am
If you do talk to him, do not provide details of your plans, like using just a few funds, asset allocation, etc. That will give him an opening to criticize specific points, which might lead to self-doubt. Maybe don't even mention self-directing.
I talked to him and made it clear that I'm not working with him.

To continue with my Seinfeld moment:

It's not you; it's me!

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cheese_breath
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by cheese_breath » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:53 pm

Cody6136 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:34 am
....To continue with my Seinfeld moment:

It's not you; it's me!
On the contrary, it is him. (Reflecting on the time George went berserk when a girl tried using that line on him.)
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.

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Cody6136
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by Cody6136 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:17 pm

cheese_breath wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:53 pm
Cody6136 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:34 am
....To continue with my Seinfeld moment:

It's not you; it's me!
On the contrary, it is him. (Reflecting on the time George went berserk when a girl tried using that line on him.)

I really SHOULD have said "It's not me; it's you!"

But now this thread has really turned into the Thread About Nothing!

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cheese_breath
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by cheese_breath » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:29 pm

Cody6136 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:17 pm
cheese_breath wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:53 pm
Cody6136 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:34 am
....To continue with my Seinfeld moment:

It's not you; it's me!
On the contrary, it is him. (Reflecting on the time George went berserk when a girl tried using that line on him.)

I really SHOULD have said "It's not me; it's you!"

But now this thread has really turned into the Thread About Nothing!
That's a show! :greedy
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.

likegarden
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by likegarden » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:13 pm

That this adviser asked for 2% annually on the total portfolio including house and metals shows that he probably had success with his proposal in the past. There are poor souls out there who are losing big. I am happy I found Bogleheads and its predecessor 14 years ago.
You owe this guy NOTHING, he owes you to present his proposal.

renue74
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by renue74 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:19 pm

I get sales calls a lot from FAs. A simple email is fine...noting that you are going in a different direction is enough. I wouldn't comment on the 2% or anything else. If you do, it gives him an open to respond with a counter. If he is more persistent and does bug you...simply say the deed is done and you signed the paperwork to have your portfolio managed.

I'm not going to comment on the 2% or your portfolio.

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Sandtrap
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:22 pm

Drive away.
Let the guy and all that matter fade in the rear view mirror.
Turn on the radio.
Keep driving.
turn your mind to the future and all its greatness. . . . . . .

You owe him nothing, nada, zero (not an email, not thank you, not a lunch, not a goodbye) . :shock:

If he emails you. Answer: no longer interested. Goodbye.

FYI (like many here). . . . I have been "wined and dined" quite a few times by the financial industry. :shock:
Last edited by Sandtrap on Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Rwsawbones
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by Rwsawbones » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:23 pm

You might feel better if you send him a polite note thanking him but declining his services and enclosing say. $200 gift certificate for a nice local restaurant

In the future if a financial person wants to take you to a restaurant you should either decline the visit or if you feel you must accept it would help if you paid for the meal

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Cody6136
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by Cody6136 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:59 pm

Rwsawbones wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:23 pm
You might feel better if you send him a polite note thanking him but declining his services and enclosing say. $200 gift certificate for a nice local restaurant

In the future if a financial person wants to take you to a restaurant you should either decline the visit or if you feel you must accept it would help if you paid for the meal
You're kidding about the gift card right?

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Sandtrap
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:01 pm

Cody6136 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:17 pm
cheese_breath wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:53 pm
Cody6136 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:34 am
....To continue with my Seinfeld moment:

It's not you; it's me!
On the contrary, it is him. (Reflecting on the time George went berserk when a girl tried using that line on him.)

I really SHOULD have said "It's not me; it's you!"

But now this thread has really turned into the Thread About Nothing!
What about "write-offs"????
That's what the cost of this lunch was to the FA. A "write-off".
You have to have them.
Everybody that knows business has them.
"Write offs". :shock:
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J295
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

Post by J295 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:06 pm

Anyone in sales know that transactions aren’t officially closed until signatures are on the dotted line. Don’t overthink this. Communicate to him professionally and politely that you have reconsidered and are not going to move forward with him. The end.

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LadyGeek
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Re: What, if anything, do I owe this guy?

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