When did you start spending more and saving less?

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TheTimeLord
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When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by TheTimeLord » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:15 pm

Feeling that we have enough and believing that we are FI has led me to conclude I should ease up on saving and spend a little more freely. At what point in accumulation did you feel it would be good to start spending a little more and saving a little less?
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JGoneRiding
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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by JGoneRiding » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:26 pm

When I had kids. Daycare is expensive! Looking fwd to the reverse in a couple years where I can get back to saving more and spending less!

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by wolf359 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:26 pm

The only problem with relaxing is that when you get used to spending a higher amount, it lends to lifestyle creep. It's hard to then cut back, and then you might not be FI any more.

If your annual spending amount is higher than your assets can sustain, then you are no longer FI.

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Tycoon
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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by Tycoon » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:29 pm

The day after I retired.
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DonIce
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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by DonIce » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:30 pm

Don't understand the question. You should always be spending on the things that add meaningful value to your life, and rarely/never spending on things that don't.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by Tdubs » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:31 pm

2026.

Ron
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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by Ron » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:39 pm

Tycoon wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:29 pm
The day after I retired.
Same here.

- Ron

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by coffeehubcap » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:42 pm

Same here the day after retirement.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by Dottie57 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:43 pm

Tycoon wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:29 pm
The day after I retired.
+1

Not saving anymore. Spending about the same or a bit less.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by Dandy » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:45 pm

I retired in 2008. Once the economy and investments rebounded I started spending more. I want to gradually increase our standard of living. Eating out more, an extra vacation, theater tickets, some home improvements, etc. Nothing wild but given our financial situation and relatively conservative investment allocation it seemed prudent. Collecting SS at age 70 and starting RMDs just reinforced the idea that we could afford to enjoy the fruits of our previous "live below our means" life style.

Despite that approach our investment portfolio is almost as high as it ever was. It is hard for a frugal couple to become a spendthrift. :oops: Our heirs have nothing to worry about.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by smitcat » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:48 pm

DonIce wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:30 pm
Don't understand the question. You should always be spending on the things that add meaningful value to your life, and rarely/never spending on things that don't.
Yes - agreed.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by bloom2708 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:49 pm

Can you list some spend you might do now (while working) that you might do if you saved less?

An extra 1 to 3 trips/vacations? Easier when retired
New car? - Buy based on need
Membership (Golf, gym) - No time yet if not retired
Eat out more - maybe this is a place to experiment? Cons: Unhealthy possibly, eating too much (portions)
Replacing items - Always as needed

No easy answer. Saving is "deferred spending". I am saving for when I have more time (not working).

I don't enjoy vacations when working (as much as I should). The work never stops, it just makes a huge mess when I get back. Pay double for a vacation. Money and time and extra piles of work when I get back.

If you can meet your goals at 30/70, 50/50 or 70/30, it is probably time. Ready...break!
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gilgamesh
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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by gilgamesh » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:09 pm

I was spending more (investing all along, but less) till about early 40’s and then ramped up my savings. Now 49 and will ramp up my savings even more in a couple of years (2 big loans will be paid off)...some fun stuff costs money and I didn’t want to sacrifice any of my decades after schooling for another - I believe in consumption smoothing.
Last edited by gilgamesh on Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by rjbraun » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:10 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:49 pm
Can you list some spend you might do now (while working) that you might do if you saved less?

An extra 1 to 3 trips/vacations? Easier when retired
New car? - Buy based on need
Membership (Golf, gym) - No time yet if not retired
Eat out more - maybe this is a place to experiment? Cons: Unhealthy possibly, eating too much (portions)
Replacing items - Always as needed

No easy answer. Saving is "deferred spending". I am saving for when I have more time (not working).

I don't enjoy vacations when working (as much as I should). The work never stops, it just makes a huge mess when I get back. Pay double for a vacation. Money and time and extra piles of work when I get back.

If you can meet your goals at 30/70, 50/50 or 70/30, it is probably time. Ready...break!
Maybe take the same number of vacations but spend more on things like higher class of service, such as business or first class for air travel, larger hotel room and with a view, etc.

As for gym membership, I think it's important to make the time to exercise and take care of one's health. In that regard, I've toyed with the idea of spending money on a personal trainer, but, so far, haven't.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:24 pm

Retirement and when my husband and I were both unemployed.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by Atilla » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:26 pm

From age 16 until 34.

I got over it.
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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by Cycle » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:26 pm

We have a kid going to daycare in a month, gone are the days of 35-40k in spending per year. How old? 35
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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by GoldenFinch » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:27 pm

Two years from now. We have been over saving for several years. In two years, all but our youngest child will be through or almost through with college and grad school. At that point I’m cutting our savings rate in half. We will be free to enjoy the extra money. If we don’t have a reason to spend it, of course we won’t spend it, but we will be able to spend without worrying or messing up retirement plans.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by EnjoyIt » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:30 pm

We started spending more once because of kids. But we also traveled less and it almost became a wash.

We also started spending a bit more on luxuries once we got close to 25x making x a little larger and bringing us to about 23x

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by Time2Quit » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:47 pm

TheTimeLord wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:15 pm
Feeling that we have enough and believing that we are FI has led me to conclude I should ease up on saving and spend a little more freely. At what point in accumulation did you feel it would be good to start spending a little more and saving a little less?
This is interesting. Each person has a different definition of "enough". It would also be safe to speculate that an overwhelming majority retire when they have enough. Since you state you have enough, are you finally ready to join a retirement class? :P

To answer your question, I will never spend more than I need to.
"It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor." --Seneca

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by DonIce » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:54 pm

Time2Quit wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:47 pm
This is interesting. Each person has a different definition of "enough". It would also be safe to speculate that an overwhelming majority retire when they have enough.
This forum probably gives that impression but I highly doubt this is true among the general population. Most people, especially those with lucrative careers that are most likely to enable savings that are considered "enough", will keep working and accumulating more wealth even if they have more than enough for retirement. And oftentimes people with lucrative and rewarding careers will work well into their 70s.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by stoptothink » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:03 pm

Probably when my wife finishes school, children are out of daycare, and the house is paid off. ETA ~3yrs. We've already got a list of experiences and things we've agreed to do/buy.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by The Wizard » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:23 pm

Ron wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:39 pm
Tycoon wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:29 pm
The day after I retired.
Same here.

- Ron
Same for me.
I was able to max out my retirement account contributions for a number of years after my youngest graduated college.
But I continued my reasonable travel regimen for those last full time working years.

But once I retired in 2013, wham! The stops came out and I've been spending a lot more on travel...
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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by BarbBrooklyn » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:25 pm

Tycoon wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:29 pm
The day after I retired.
4 months after I retired.
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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by RadAudit » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:30 pm

While I am spending more now than before I retired, I'm still saving some. Seems every year someone /something shows up who / that requires / will require more and bigger chunks out of the portfolio. A sister-in-law needs money. Both kids need / may need more money. The grandkids may need money for college. The colleges need money for this and that program or no program at all. The wife and I definitely need money to get away for a week or two ...

So, I'm still accumulating. Hope I can stay ahead of them.
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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by Chadnudj » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:36 pm

TheTimeLord wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:15 pm
Feeling that we have enough and believing that we are FI has led me to conclude I should ease up on saving and spend a little more freely. At what point in accumulation did you feel it would be good to start spending a little more and saving a little less?
In the spirit of the question:

We cut back on saving (although we were always saving!) when we:
- Suffered a job loss (obviously)
- Had kids (slowed down temporarily until we could figure out how each kid impacted the budget, then started back up again when we had a feel for it)
- Bought our forever home (we had some large one-time expenses related with making the home work for us and preferred to cash-flow it rather than take on any more debt)

Right now, we're still in the latter stage (it takes awhile to get all the stuff you need for a new house, plus both kids are in full time morning-to-6 pm daycare which is a huge drain until Fall 2020 when the eldest at least will start public kindergarten). We're saving decently well, but not quite at the "max out both 401ks and invest extra in private funds/more aggressively paying down low interest debt" stage we've achieved at other times.

For younger Bogleheads out there, this is why you should max out as early/young as you can -- get compounding started early, because you won't feel quite as bad later on if you have to cut back a bit on the savings while you attend to other important goals (starting a family, buying a home, etc.).

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by sailaway » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:43 pm

While things will change eventually, so far we have never increased spending more than income. So, our savings rate was a little lower than usual last year, but we still saved just as much as the previous year.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by Wricha » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:16 pm

TheTimeLord wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:15 pm
Feeling that we have enough and believing that we are FI has led me to conclude I should ease up on saving and spend a little more freely. At what point in accumulation did you feel it would be good to start spending a little more and saving a little less?
I don’t know if you have done/considered this. My suggestion is for you to set up a personal cash flow statement. This should answer a lot of questions one may have: how many years of cash, how much can one spent etc. seeking one point of information against a moving target called life is difficult. If one has a positive cash flow position that is with in ones sleep well asset allocation you good to go (retire, spend money whatever one personally decides).

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by scrabbler1 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:17 pm

Tycoon wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:29 pm
The day after I retired.
Same here.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by TravelforFun » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:10 pm

When I reached 33X, I declared FI, immediately went part time, tapped into my investment for money to travel, get help around the house, and help our kids and grandkids. I've been pulling 1-2% of my investment a year to supplement my part time income and our newly qualified SS. I have definitely been spending more since FI but the stock market has continued to push our net worth upwardly.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by yousha » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:16 pm

When I reached $5,000,000.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by montanagirl » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:33 pm

When I was busted to part time at age 64. I haven't contributed to my retirement accounts since but have more than I had then.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by KlangFool » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:34 pm

OP,

When my kids go to college. All my annual savings go towards their college education. I save nothing.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by HIinvestor » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:43 pm

When our kids were both in college, we felt fortunate when we didn’t have to deplete our savings further. We have been spending more since H retired and it’s just the two of us home. We eat out a lot and travel more. We still live well below our income, so we are quite satisfied that we will be fine.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by MnD » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:03 pm

Temporarily for X years when we had kids starting 26 years ago and permanently when we retired a few months ago.
We were able to cash flow one tuition/room/board for 6 years and had saved just enough for the two overlap years to sum to 8 years so long-term savings was unaffected.

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TheTimeLord
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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by TheTimeLord » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:09 pm

Time2Quit wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:47 pm
TheTimeLord wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:15 pm
Feeling that we have enough and believing that we are FI has led me to conclude I should ease up on saving and spend a little more freely. At what point in accumulation did you feel it would be good to start spending a little more and saving a little less?
This is interesting. Each person has a different definition of "enough". It would also be safe to speculate that an overwhelming majority retire when they have enough. Since you state you have enough, are you finally ready to join a retirement class? :P

To answer your question, I will never spend more than I need to.
"Need" is also different for each person. And no not ready to join the retirement class but that hasn't really been a financial decision for awhile just a choice I am not ready to make. At this point in life I have far more wants than needs but some might consider some of my wants needs I guess.
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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by Katietsu » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:30 pm

I am surprised by all the answers that question the question.

TimeLord, We have been asking ourselves this very question over the last few months. I suspect we have 35-40 X of our current expenses. I do not want to get derailed into the reasons that we feel retirement is not necessarily the right option yet. But we have realized that we should be able to cut our current savings rate and still have a significant chance of dying with money in the bank.

So, for instance, I think being in the midst of these discussions probably led me to go for the next higher trim level when I recently purchased a car. I still bought a vehicle well below the national average and with a great end of model year discount. So not lifestyle creep that would move the needle on the retirement funding needs.

Who knows, maybe we will splurge on the expensive Easter Brunch.
Last edited by Katietsu on Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TheTimeLord
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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by TheTimeLord » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:35 pm

TheTimeLord wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:15 pm
Feeling that we have enough and believing that we are FI has led me to conclude I should ease up on saving and spend a little more freely. At what point in accumulation did you feel it would be good to start spending a little more and saving a little less?
I guess I don't see the point in stacking it deeper and deeper until I pass. I have been saving money so I could utilize it in the future. Now that I believe have enough while I am still saving it isn't the same priority it once was. One of my primary goals is to learn how to lessen the importance of money in my life. I see not tightly clinging to each dollar as part of this process.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by TheTimeLord » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:36 pm

Katietsu wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:30 pm
I am surprised by all the answers that question the question.

TimeLord, We have been asking ourselves this very question over the last few months. I suspect we have 35-40 X of our current expenses. I do not want to get derailed into the reasons that we do not feel retirement is not necessarily the right option yet. But we have realized that we should be able to cut our current savings rate and still have a significant chance of dying with money in the bank.

So, for instance, I think being in the midst of these discussions probably led me to go for the next higher trim level when I recently purchased a car. I still bought a vehicle well below the national average and with a great end of model year discount. So not lifestyle creep that would move the needle on the retirement funding needs.

Who knows, maybe we will splurge on the expensive Easter Brunch.
:D
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Noble Knight
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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by Noble Knight » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:38 pm

When I realized I was preparing too much for retirement and not living life as much as I wanted to.

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teen persuasion
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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by teen persuasion » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:37 pm

We haven't reached that point yet.

So far, generally we've been spending equal or less in absolute dollars, but more in discretionary dollars. As debt was eliminated (undergrad loans, grad loans, mortgage), we had more freed up to save. As the kids left the nest one by one, we had more freed up to save/spend. As we got more efficient with necessary spending, we had more to save. As we increased income, we had more to save. As we hit 50, we had higher limits to max. As refundable tax credits evolved, and I better learned to maximize them (with greater tax deferred savings), we had more to save.

Things will shift soon. As youngest ages out of CTC, and eventually EITC, our refundable credits will evaporate. As he will appear to be an only child to the FAFSA, and the FAFSA has decreased asset protection amounts despite inflation (a third of what they were when DD1 started college just over a decade ago), we may find it more difficult to qualify for FA at levels that the older kids received. So college expenses may increase dramatically. I'm trying to save heavily now to reach FI beforehand. RE might help us manage the FAFSA situation, though we will have to delay Roth conversions until after the last FAFSA filing.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by Jackson12 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:08 am

I think we have less common circumstances. We don’t anticipate ever We don’t anticipate “spending more” and “saving less”, ..Or to clarify, we don’t anticipate spending more on ourselves.
We anticipate keeping our savings rate very high and our expenses very low , even in retirement.

For now ...and after retirement....as much as possible will go into a special needs trust for a disabled family member.

Once social security kicks in ( higher earner will defer to age 70) , we’ll actually have more funds available monthly and annually to spend or save as we wish..

So we’ll still be frugal, continue living below our means, withdrawing 3-4% of our portfolio annually , and continue to throw as much as possible into the special needs trust. . If we’re fortunate enough to build the trust to a point where SSDI and the trust will probably support our family member for his entire life ( its possible) , we can then save less and spend more.

But we don’t foresee that happening for awhile.

.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by curmudgeon » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:08 am

We've tended to operate in a "consumption smoothing" model, where we gradually opened up spending over time, though always in a fairly conservative, LBYM, fashion. The most notable bump was probably when we finished paying college bills for the kids (we cash-flowed that). At that point (early 50's), we had more free cash flow, and I judged we were on a solid retirement path (but not wanting to retire yet). Still in a high tax bracket, we cut back to just maxing out my 401K and paying down mortgages, and didn't worry much about saving more than that. We coasted into retirement a couple of years ago.

We kept an eye on "lifestyle inflation", to try to avoid the potential of being forced to cut back in the future, but at the same time we try to avoid accumulation for it's own sake. I suppose we increase our lifestyle expenses in a delayed process, when I feel the spending is sustainable not only now, but also in the future. This does tend to make for overall increasing investment balances when times are good; while that is not a goal, it's a logical outcome.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by snowox » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:27 am

Like others stated, When we retired.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by MikeG62 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:12 am

While working we lived well below our means, but far from frugally. So we pretty much always bought the things we wanted. There was never a point where we felt we could/should loosen our belts to spend more. Balance is key IMHO.
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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by flyingaway » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:17 am

I though I answered this one yesterday, apparently it did not stay.

When I started doing OMY it was the time that I started spending more. If I don't retire after financial independence, I just start to enjoy retirement-like life: more travel and better quality purchases.

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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by sschullo » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:23 am

snowox wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:27 am
Like others stated, When we retired.
I agree as I have been retired for 11 years and I cannot spend down my portfolio. I save nothing and spend every dime from my investments and pension on the new love of my life, my book writing projects, taxes for a civilization that I enjoy, house upgrades, worldwide and domestic traveling, and the usual volunteer and donations for good causes and helping my family who are struggling.

In fact, I need to spend more! $120,000 was not enough spent last year, and at my age, 71, I will be spending more. My boring portfolio keeps on producing! I am looking at this toy: https://www.tesla.com/roadster JUST LOOKING! I already own a 2014 Model S.
Last edited by sschullo on Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:28 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by sfnerd » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:24 am

When I met my wife! Half joking.

Actually it was once I realized that: in my late 30s and having been FI since before 30, and loving my work still, and probably not having kids, I will die with a ton of money, even after leaving a million to each niece and nephew.

So I have started donating more, being a bit more luxurious (business class if it's a really long flight and not crazy expensive, nice hotels, etc.). Generally though I haven't upgraded housing, cars, or big ticket things like that. I still look for the best price. I still optimize to the penny, and try not to be wasteful. But if something delivers value to me, I go for it.

flyingaway
Posts: 2531
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:19 am

Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by flyingaway » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:52 am

sschullo wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:23 am
snowox wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:27 am
Like others stated, When we retired.
I agree as I have been retired for 11 years and I cannot spend down my portfolio. I save nothing and spend every dime from my investments and pension on the new love of my life, my book writing projects, taxes for a civilization that I enjoy, house upgrades, worldwide and domestic traveling, and the usual volunteer and donations for good causes and helping my family who are struggling.

In fact, I need to spend more! $120,000 was not enough spent last year, and at my age, 71, I will be spending more. My boring portfolio keeps on producing! I am looking at this toy: https://www.tesla.com/roadster JUST LOOKING! I already own a 2014 Model S.
This reminds me that I need to spend more money now. Not a problem, just booked two tickets to Asia and Europe last week, went to McDonalds this morning for breakfast.

mptfan
Posts: 5631
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:58 am

Re: When did you start spending more and saving less?

Post by mptfan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:58 am

DonIce wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:54 pm
Time2Quit wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:47 pm
This is interesting. Each person has a different definition of "enough". It would also be safe to speculate that an overwhelming majority retire when they have enough.
This forum probably gives that impression but I highly doubt this is true among the general population. Most people, especially those with lucrative careers that are most likely to enable savings that are considered "enough", will keep working and accumulating more wealth even if they have more than enough for retirement. And oftentimes people with lucrative and rewarding careers will work well into their 70s.
I agree that some people do this, but I do not agree that most people do this. The data shows that the average person retires around age 62 and most people do not have enough savings to retire and maintain the same lifestyle that they had pre-retirement without rapidly depleting their savings, so most people retire in their early to mid 60's and reduce their spending after retirement out of necessity.

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