Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
User avatar
market timer
Posts: 6191
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:42 am

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by market timer » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:06 am

As I understand, Amazon offers spousal employment assistance and will even buy your house from you if you can't find a buyer in a reasonable amount of time.

Topic Author
Broadway2018
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 3:34 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Broadway2018 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:08 am

market timer wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:06 am
As I understand, Amazon offers spousal employment assistance and will even buy your house from you if you can't find a buyer in a reasonable amount of time.
Maybe at a vp level but not manager. They aren’t even paying closing costs.

Quantumfizz
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:26 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Quantumfizz » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:49 am

Broadway2018 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:36 pm
CAP_theorem wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:22 pm

I just had a three way bidding war between three different FAANG. Slightly fudging the numbers for anonymity, but 230k base, 20% annual bonus, 45k sign on bonus, and 1.2 million dollar stock grant vesting over four years. I'm still not the highest paid person I know.

Those numbers mean absolutely nothing to you personally since your own situation and what you can pull is entirely different, but I what I want to impress upon you is that they are capable of paying a lot more.

You want to get an interview for the highest level you are capable of at multiple companies, nail it and get an offer approved at that level at multiple companies, and then negotiate from there. If you haven't heard the words best and final then you aren't there yet.

Once you have done the groundwork for your next job change pick the one that will develop your career the most. Do good work, and in 2-4 years go interview at those same companies again until you find a better opportunity. Rinse and repeat until it stops working.

Identifying what will be best for your career is harder, but it's basically whatever gives you the most visibility, the best references, connects you with the best people etc. The path to your next job is paved by all your previous jobs. My best offer came because of people I worked with over the past 10 years endorsing me.

Make hay while the sun is shining. The future is not guaranteed.
So my story is more involved... I was interviewing for jobs the last 8 months, but none of the offers were close together.

Nov 2019 - offered $160k by startup where I live
Dec 2019 - started interviewing at FANG
Feb 2019 - offered $180k chase job offer
Mar 2019 - changed teams at current company - no pay increase
Apr 2019 - FANG called and did on site. Received job offer.

So not much leverage and not sure why FANG took so long. Now I am in a situation where I just started on a new team at my current company. Leaving now would burn a bridge and be awkward.

Also, Been trying to negotiate and they said this is the max offer.
Decline the offer, stating the comp is not enough. They will come back for a higher offer, or the decision will be made for you. You always have leverage.

michaeljc70
Posts: 6108
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by michaeljc70 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:55 am

The FANG company will probably work you harder so I'd consider how much you think you will be making per hour. I like working from home, so that is very valuable to me. It saves me 1-2 hours commuting a day along with a lot of other conveniences. On the pro side, having a FANG on your resume is very valuable. I don't know what kind of place you work know as there are certainly non-FANG companies that also look great on your resume. You said you are relocating so you need to take into account any COL differences.

Topic Author
Broadway2018
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 3:34 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Broadway2018 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:59 am

michaeljc70 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:55 am
The FANG company will probably work you harder so I'd consider how much you think you will be making per hour. I like working from home, so that is very valuable to me. It saves me 1-2 hours commuting a day along with a lot of other conveniences. On the pro side, having a FANG on your resume is very valuable. I don't know what kind of place you work know as there are certainly non-FANG companies that also look great on your resume. You said you are relocating so you need to take into account any COL differences.
I’ve worked at Disney and big 4 companies so far. I live in MD now. I’m going to request meeting with the sr manager to discuss work life balance

Topic Author
Broadway2018
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 3:34 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Broadway2018 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:01 am

michaeljc70 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:55 am
Decline the offer, stating the comp is not enough. They will come back for a higher offer, or the decision will be made for you. You always have leverage.
That seems rather risky...

michaeljc70
Posts: 6108
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by michaeljc70 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:10 am

Broadway2018 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:01 am
michaeljc70 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:55 am
Decline the offer, stating the comp is not enough. They will come back for a higher offer, or the decision will be made for you. You always have leverage.
That seems rather risky...
I think that is a misquote....someone else said that.

JTColton
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:41 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by JTColton » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:14 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:25 am
Broadway2018 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:24 am
Anyone have advice for the following situation?

My partner wants to stay in Baltimore for a year while I go to fang. It seems like a waste of money to pay for a mortgage and an apt plus 2 households. Her reasoning is she is going to be promoted to director and wants it on her resume. But it’s only $10k more money and she wouldn’t have it on her resume that long. Also no telling when she would get a job.

For example, she waits to Jan to look and still only has the title for 6 months. Not sure what difference that will make. She’s pretty adamant about staying a year and I feel this will make our life hectic. Selling our home and moving across the country is tough and now she wants to add finding a temporary place into the mix. Not to mention never seeing each other. I feel like I would be in limbo for a year waiting for her to move.
Translation: Partner likes current situation just fine and has no intention of ever moving. You're free to go and find a new partner out in Rain Land.
Do you want to stay with your partner or take this FANG job OP? Ive seen this frequently in my line of work (military) and someone is being set up for disappointment. If you do take the job I would sell the house immediately with your partner moving into a short term rental.

Topic Author
Broadway2018
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 3:34 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Broadway2018 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:02 am

JTColton wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:14 am
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:25 am
Broadway2018 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:24 am
Anyone have advice for the following situation?

My partner wants to stay in Baltimore for a year while I go to fang. It seems like a waste of money to pay for a mortgage and an apt plus 2 households. Her reasoning is she is going to be promoted to director and wants it on her resume. But it’s only $10k more money and she wouldn’t have it on her resume that long. Also no telling when she would get a job.

For example, she waits to Jan to look and still only has the title for 6 months. Not sure what difference that will make. She’s pretty adamant about staying a year and I feel this will make our life hectic. Selling our home and moving across the country is tough and now she wants to add finding a temporary place into the mix. Not to mention never seeing each other. I feel like I would be in limbo for a year waiting for her to move.
Translation: Partner likes current situation just fine and has no intention of ever moving. You're free to go and find a new partner out in Rain Land.
Do you want to stay with your partner or take this FANG job OP? Ive seen this frequently in my line of work (military) and someone is being set up for disappointment. If you do take the job I would sell the house immediately with your partner moving into a short term rental.
Partner wants to move to Seattle just also wants the title on resume. I am sure we will work it out.

PHD-2
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by PHD-2 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:28 am

Now that I know who it is I don't think they explained the PTO situation to you very well. It's actually much better than you think albeit a bit confusing the way they've done it. There are essentially 3 elements. Paid PTO, Vacation and Sick leave.

You get 48 hours a year of paid time off which you must use or lose in a calendar year. It does not roll over. This was intended to supplement your vacation or use as sick leave. I support this approach as given that I can work remotely if needed I would rarely use all my sick leave if I just have a cold and don't want to bring it into the office. Someone of less character than I could claim "sick!" and get more time off if they called this sick leave.
You accrue 40 hours of vacation your first year (and 80 hours each year after that until year 6 when it becomes 120/yr). This rolls over if not used in a calendar year up to a limit.
After the above policies were established, the city and later, the state of Washington required several days of straight up sick leave per year so they just added those onto what they offer above. It can roll over and I honestly haven't sorted how many hours it is as I've not needed to take more than a day or two and I still have a few days available to me that I've accrued.

So, assume you are sick only a day or two a year and you use sick leave for that. In your first year you will have 88 hours of PTO available to you. After your first year you will have 128 hours of PTO available to you until you've completed 6 years, at which time you will have 168 hours available to you.

CAP_theorem
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:19 am

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by CAP_theorem » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:33 pm

Do the people who say FANG works you harder actually work at them? That's not a correct generalization to make across all companies much less across each individual company.

You can work 40 hours a week at Google or Apple and do well. You can work less and be good at what you do and have an impact and still do amazing.

I agree with those who are suggesting you look closely at what relocating would do to your relationship. Are the lines of communication open about what you both want for your futures as a unit and as individuals? Are you absolutely sure no one is holding back how they really feel?

StoopieHippo
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:42 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by StoopieHippo » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:30 pm

Broadway2018 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:15 am
StoopieHippo wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:43 pm
ssquared87 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:38 pm
Broadway2018 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:39 pm
Regattamom wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:31 pm
I am sure you'll come to the right decision for you. I was curious though and I just did a Zillow search for a 1 bedroom with at least 1,000 square feet under $2,000 dollars. The results are very few.
I see quite a few in Green Lake and Wallingford. Probably end up with something around 800 sq ft..
That’s easily a 30 minute bus ride in traffic, which exceeds the 20 minutes you’re shooting for, plus you need to add the time it takes you to get to/from the bus
From Greenlake to SLU, you're probably looking at an hour on the bus.
Someone I know who works at FANG stated is between 20 min (not rush hour) and 40 min ( rush hour)
I suppose you could take the 40 from Greenlake area and get off at the Mercer stop, which is across the street from some of the Amazon buildings. The new Google building will be close to that stop too, but it's still being built and not open yet.

Wallingford is a little further and has fewer bus options. Just be aware that you may be passed by by full busses during rush hour, too.

I'm coming from the opposite direction, and have only taken the bus north so many times. Earlier you were thinking about Queen Anne...depending on which building you're in, that could be 40ish minutes (D --> C/70 to SLU). It takes me from 25-45min to get to work (door to door) and I'm a few min south of QA in Belltown.

For housing in these areas, you could rent in a not-great part of Greenlake, possibly find a smaller house to rent in Wallingford (it's close to UWashington, so many college kids in the area rent out houses and live with like 4 other kids), or maybe find a small apartment in a farther out area in Ballard. Or if it's just you, there's Apodments in Ballard and Cap Hill that go for ~$875/mo (utilities and internet included) but it's legit like 200sqft.

DonIce
Posts: 740
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:44 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by DonIce » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:38 pm

StoopieHippo wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:30 pm
I'm coming from the opposite direction, and have only taken the bus north so many times. Earlier you were thinking about Queen Anne...depending on which building you're in, that could be 40ish minutes (D --> C/70 to SLU). It takes me from 25-45min to get to work (door to door) and I'm a few min south of QA in Belltown.
It's a <30 minute walk from large parts of Queen Anne, Cap Hill, Belltown, and Eastlake to Amazon HQ.

StoopieHippo
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:42 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by StoopieHippo » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:41 pm

DonIce wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:38 pm
StoopieHippo wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:30 pm
I'm coming from the opposite direction, and have only taken the bus north so many times. Earlier you were thinking about Queen Anne...depending on which building you're in, that could be 40ish minutes (D --> C/70 to SLU). It takes me from 25-45min to get to work (door to door) and I'm a few min south of QA in Belltown.
It's a <30 minute walk from large parts of Queen Anne, Cap Hill, Belltown, and Eastlake to Amazon HQ.
Not from the top of the hill, it's not. Walking from where I live to work in SLU (my building) takes me about 45min, but I'm on the north side of Belltown. That being said, I don't know that I'd want to walk it every day when it's raining out or snowing (though I did this past snowstorm when my bus was half an hour late).

DonIce
Posts: 740
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:44 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by DonIce » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:52 pm

StoopieHippo wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:41 pm
Not from the top of the hill, it's not. Walking from where I live to work in SLU (my building) takes me about 45min, but I'm on the north side of Belltown. That being said, I don't know that I'd want to walk it every day when it's raining out or snowing (though I did this past snowstorm when my bus was half an hour late).
Here's the 30 minute walkshed from Amazonia. Plenty of places to live within the highlighted area as long as one isn't trying to buy a SFH.

https://app.traveltimeplatform.com/sear ... de=walking

drk
Posts: 1427
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:33 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by drk » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:56 pm

CAP_theorem wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:33 pm
Do the people who say FANG works you harder actually work at them? That's not a correct generalization to make across all companies much less across each individual company.
No, of course they don’t.

StoopieHippo
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:42 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by StoopieHippo » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:12 pm

DonIce wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:52 pm
StoopieHippo wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:41 pm
Not from the top of the hill, it's not. Walking from where I live to work in SLU (my building) takes me about 45min, but I'm on the north side of Belltown. That being said, I don't know that I'd want to walk it every day when it's raining out or snowing (though I did this past snowstorm when my bus was half an hour late).
Here's the 30 minute walkshed from Amazonia. Plenty of places to live within the highlighted area as long as one isn't trying to buy a SFH.

https://app.traveltimeplatform.com/sear ... de=walking
Interesting. I'm def within the highlighted area, but it also def takes me longer to walk to SLU. Must be all the time spent waiting to cross Mercer...

38,000 ft
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by 38,000 ft » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:02 pm

MindBogler wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:15 pm
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:07 pm
I’ve always wondered why AMZN folks don’t strike a deal with their managers - “if you can make my job tolerable for the next four years, I’d be willing to share X% of my RSUs as they vest”
Great idea!

🍻
It is an interesting solution but the managers also know they likely won’t be around that long either!

38,000 ft
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by 38,000 ft » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:04 pm

Broadway2018 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:59 am
michaeljc70 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:55 am
The FANG company will probably work you harder so I'd consider how much you think you will be making per hour. I like working from home, so that is very valuable to me. It saves me 1-2 hours commuting a day along with a lot of other conveniences. On the pro side, having a FANG on your resume is very valuable. I don't know what kind of place you work know as there are certainly non-FANG companies that also look great on your resume. You said you are relocating so you need to take into account any COL differences.
I’ve worked at Disney and big 4 companies so far. I live in MD now. I’m going to request meeting with the sr manager to discuss work life balance
I would advise against this. It is a quick way to identify yourself as “not a team player” and unfortunately first impressions are very hard to change.

Edit: I also happen to think that considering your effective hourly wage rate is nonsensical in situations like this. It’s not like you are going out and picking up extra work at $75/hr in your current situation. If you have the ability to do that, perhaps it makes sense to compare in this fashion. Most of us do not have the ability to go out and pick up extra hours at these types of hourly rates. Therefore it doesn’t make sense to decline an offer of more money because it might mean more hours worked. Of course you must accept that there is no free lunch. At certain companies it is likely you will have more pressure, more stress and more work to achieve that higher compensation. That is the bargain. In return you hopefully get to be challenged, work on cool things and develop new skills. (Plus make more money)

If you are concerned enough to want to discuss work life balance with a manager before accepting the offer then perhaps it is not the right choice for you.
Last edited by 38,000 ft on Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

michaeljc70
Posts: 6108
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by michaeljc70 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:05 pm

drk wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:56 pm
CAP_theorem wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:33 pm
Do the people who say FANG works you harder actually work at them? That's not a correct generalization to make across all companies much less across each individual company.
No, of course they don’t.
I don't know if you realize FANG (really it is generally described as FAANG) is 4 (or 5) companies. It is not across all companies as it refers to 4 or 5 companies.

38,000 ft
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by 38,000 ft » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:14 pm

drk wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:56 pm
CAP_theorem wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:33 pm
Do the people who say FANG works you harder actually work at them? That's not a correct generalization to make across all companies much less across each individual company.
No, of course they don’t.
Part of the challenge among other things is that there are a wide variety of job types, and often it seems the WLB and conditions vary within companies quite widely across job types. That makes it difficult to generalize across companies.

michaeljc70
Posts: 6108
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by michaeljc70 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:19 pm

38,000 ft wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:04 pm
Broadway2018 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:59 am
michaeljc70 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:55 am
The FANG company will probably work you harder so I'd consider how much you think you will be making per hour. I like working from home, so that is very valuable to me. It saves me 1-2 hours commuting a day along with a lot of other conveniences. On the pro side, having a FANG on your resume is very valuable. I don't know what kind of place you work know as there are certainly non-FANG companies that also look great on your resume. You said you are relocating so you need to take into account any COL differences.
I’ve worked at Disney and big 4 companies so far. I live in MD now. I’m going to request meeting with the sr manager to discuss work life balance
I would advise against this. It is a quick way to identify yourself as “not a team player” and unfortunately first impressions are very hard to change.

Edit: I also happen to think that considering your effective hourly wage rate is nonsensical in situations like this. It’s not like you are going out and picking up extra work at $75/hr in your current situation. If you have the ability to do that, perhaps it makes sense to compare in this fashion. Most of us do not have the ability to go out and pick up extra hours at these types of hourly rates. Therefore it doesn’t make sense to decline an offer of more money because it might mean more hours worked. Of course you must accept that there is no free lunch. At certain companies it is likely you will have more pressure, more stress and more work to achieve that higher compensation. That is the bargain. In return you hopefully get to be challenged, work on cool things and develop new skills. (Plus make more money)

If you are concerned enough to want to discuss work life balance with a manager before accepting the offer then perhaps it is not the right choice for you.
I don't get this. Your time is worthless? It doesn't matter if you can make $XXX per hour elsewhere. Time is a finite resource. They are comparing two jobs...so hours worked is completely relevant.

I agree questioning aggressively how much work/hours is involved before taking a job would not be a good sign to an employer.

drk
Posts: 1427
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:33 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by drk » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:29 pm

michaeljc70 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:05 pm
drk wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:56 pm
CAP_theorem wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:33 pm
Do the people who say FANG works you harder actually work at them? That's not a correct generalization to make across all companies much less across each individual company.
No, of course they don’t.
I don't know if you realize FANG (really it is generally described as FAANG) is 4 (or 5) companies. It is not across all companies as it refers to 4 or 5 companies.
No idea why you replied to me there.

drk
Posts: 1427
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:33 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by drk » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:31 pm

38,000 ft wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:14 pm
drk wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:56 pm
CAP_theorem wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:33 pm
Do the people who say FANG works you harder actually work at them? That's not a correct generalization to make across all companies much less across each individual company.
No, of course they don’t.
Part of the challenge among other things is that there are a wide variety of job types, and often it seems the WLB and conditions vary within companies quite widely across job types. That makes it difficult to generalize across companies.
Right, which is why it’s ridiculous to apply any overly-broad “they’ll work you hard for the money” judgments.

michaeljc70
Posts: 6108
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by michaeljc70 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:39 pm

drk wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:29 pm
michaeljc70 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:05 pm
drk wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:56 pm
CAP_theorem wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:33 pm
Do the people who say FANG works you harder actually work at them? That's not a correct generalization to make across all companies much less across each individual company.
No, of course they don’t.
I don't know if you realize FANG (really it is generally described as FAANG) is 4 (or 5) companies. It is not across all companies as it refers to 4 or 5 companies.
No idea why you replied to me there.
Because they said it was a "generalization to make across all companies" and you agreed. Across 4 companies is not a generalization across all companies.
Last edited by michaeljc70 on Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

drk
Posts: 1427
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:33 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by drk » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:51 pm

michaeljc70 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:39 pm
drk wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:29 pm
michaeljc70 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:05 pm
drk wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:56 pm
CAP_theorem wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:33 pm
Do the people who say FANG works you harder actually work at them? That's not a correct generalization to make across all companies much less across each individual company.
No, of course they don’t.
I don't know if you realize FANG (really it is generally described as FAANG) is 4 (or 5) companies. It is not across all companies as it refers to 4 or 5 companies.
No idea why you replied to me there.
Because they said it was a "generalization to make across all companies" and you agreed. Across 4 companies is not a generalization.
Are you aware of the number of employees the FAANG crew has, collectively?

I’m still confused why you think I wouldn’t “realize FANG (really it is generally described as FAANG) is 4 (or 5) companies.” That’s a bizarre response.

ETA: Based on your edit, you misread the original comment about generalizing.

38,000 ft
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by 38,000 ft » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:55 pm

michaeljc70 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:19 pm
I don't get this. Your time is worthless? It doesn't matter if you can make $XXX per hour elsewhere. Time is a finite resource. They are comparing two jobs...so hours worked is completely relevant.
Actually, yes! They don’t have kids. Most of the free time will be more or less wasted. Why not earn more now and advance your career, even if it’s at a lower hourly rate. I wish that I had gone to a tech company sooner. Part of the reason I did not was because I was too comfortable with my cushy job. Stress free and I worked less than 40 hours a week and made a good enough salary. But after ten years what did I have to show for all my free time? Nothing! Sure it was nice and relaxing but mostly I just read a lot of articles and books and watched a lot of TV and movies. Looking back now, I would much rather have spent that time working because I would be further in my career now and also at least have the extra $$ I would have earned.

michaeljc70
Posts: 6108
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by michaeljc70 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:00 pm

drk wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:51 pm
michaeljc70 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:39 pm
drk wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:29 pm
michaeljc70 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:05 pm
drk wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:56 pm


No, of course they don’t.
I don't know if you realize FANG (really it is generally described as FAANG) is 4 (or 5) companies. It is not across all companies as it refers to 4 or 5 companies.
No idea why you replied to me there.
Because they said it was a "generalization to make across all companies" and you agreed. Across 4 companies is not a generalization.
Are you aware of the number of employees the FAANG crew has, collectively?

I’m still confused why you think I wouldn’t “realize FANG (really it is generally described as FAANG) is 4 (or 5) companies.” That’s a bizarre response.

ETA: Based on your edit, you misread the original comment about generalizing.
If "all companies" refers to 4 companies, it is true I misinterpreted it.

The number of employees FA(A)NG companies have is a minuscule part of jobs in our economy.

michaeljc70
Posts: 6108
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by michaeljc70 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:13 pm

38,000 ft wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:55 pm
michaeljc70 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:19 pm
I don't get this. Your time is worthless? It doesn't matter if you can make $XXX per hour elsewhere. Time is a finite resource. They are comparing two jobs...so hours worked is completely relevant.
Actually, yes! They don’t have kids. Most of the free time will be more or less wasted. Why not earn more now and advance your career, even if it’s at a lower hourly rate. I wish that I had gone to a tech company sooner. Part of the reason I did not was because I was too comfortable with my cushy job. Stress free and I worked less than 40 hours a week and made a good enough salary. But after ten years what did I have to show for all my free time? Nothing! Sure it was nice and relaxing but mostly I just read a lot of articles and books and watched a lot of TV and movies. Looking back now, I would much rather have spent that time working because I would be further in my career now and also at least have the extra $$ I would have earned.
Well, that's one interpretation of it. Other people value their family, friends, hobbies, sanity, etc. Maybe you feel you squandered your time not working a lot of hours, but I wouldn't attribute that to everyone.

Topic Author
Broadway2018
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 3:34 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Broadway2018 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:23 am

michaeljc70 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:19 pm
38,000 ft wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:04 pm
I would advise against this. It is a quick way to identify yourself as “not a team player” and unfortunately first impressions are very hard to change.

If you are concerned enough to want to discuss work life balance with a manager before accepting the offer then perhaps it is not the right choice for you.
I agree questioning aggressively how much work/hours is involved before taking a job would not be a good sign to an employer.
Work life balance is a big deal now a days. Anyway had the meeting and asked the question. Manager was very chill and explained that working times were flexible and I could work from home as needed - if I had a dr appt or something. Also, she explained how they are trying to turn it around and at the top execs are very focused on it.

Topic Author
Broadway2018
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 3:34 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Broadway2018 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:43 am

38,000 ft wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:55 pm
michaeljc70 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:19 pm
I don't get this. Your time is worthless? It doesn't matter if you can make $XXX per hour elsewhere. Time is a finite resource. They are comparing two jobs...so hours worked is completely relevant.
Actually, yes! They don’t have kids. Most of the free time will be more or less wasted. Why not earn more now and advance your career, even if it’s at a lower hourly rate. I wish that I had gone to a tech company sooner. Part of the reason I did not was because I was too comfortable with my cushy job. Stress free and I worked less than 40 hours a week and made a good enough salary. But after ten years what did I have to show for all my free time? Nothing! Sure it was nice and relaxing but mostly I just read a lot of articles and books and watched a lot of TV and movies. Looking back now, I would much rather have spent that time working because I would be further in my career now and also at least have the extra $$ I would have earned.
Thank you for this. I agree, comparing hourly is not really apples to apples. I can’t go get $75 an hour outside of work. Also, my current employer restricts us doing any outside work without approval.

srt7
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:19 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by srt7 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:04 pm

Broadway2018 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:03 pm
I posted on here last week about my FANG job offer, however, the post was locked so starting a new one.

I finally received numbers and now that it is real I am unsure what to do.

Current Job
Salary: $130,000 plus $5,000 bonus
Commute: zero, I work from home
Team: I don't love the work, but my boss is a really nice person and I get along well with her. Also, I just started on this team 3 months ago so if I leave how can I not burn a bridge. Been w/ company 4 years but just switched teams.
Company: Great benefits, 30 days PTO, well-being program, 16 weeks maternity leave, pension (small but still something), cell phone paid, overall great work-life balance


New Job
Salary: $149,000
Signing Bonus: $60,000 first year and $40,000 the second year
RSUs: $130,000 vesting over 4 years - stock could go up making this more money
Commute: go to office daily, but relocating so would find a place within 20 minutes and on the bus line
Team: Not sure about the team, felt pretty neutral during the interview
Company: FANG company, 10 days PTO, healthcare cheap


The new job has such great potential for more money over my career. Even if leave after 4 years, I could go to another top tech firm paying more. Am I crazy to second guess this new job? At first, I was so excited, but now I feel so nervous and am worried about making a mistake.
No, you are not cut-out for this job. Otherwise you wouldn't be writing (or even thinking) about all that strikethrough text. Don't get me wrong. There is no shame in that and I should know because a couple years ago I got offered and rejected a similar job offer while a few months prior to that my good friend took it. We are very different personalities. And we're both happy with our choices today.
I can't think of anything more luxurious than owning my time. - remomnyc

Topic Author
Broadway2018
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 3:34 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Broadway2018 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:27 pm

srt7 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:04 pm
Broadway2018 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:03 pm
I posted on here last week about my FANG job offer, however, the post was locked so starting a new one.

I finally received numbers and now that it is real I am unsure what to do.

Current Job
Salary: $130,000 plus $5,000 bonus
Commute: zero, I work from home
Team: I don't love the work, but my boss is a really nice person and I get along well with her. Also, I just started on this team 3 months ago so if I leave how can I not burn a bridge. Been w/ company 4 years but just switched teams.
Company: Great benefits, 30 days PTO, well-being program, 16 weeks maternity leave, pension (small but still something), cell phone paid, overall great work-life balance


New Job
Salary: $149,000
Signing Bonus: $60,000 first year and $40,000 the second year
RSUs: $130,000 vesting over 4 years - stock could go up making this more money
Commute: go to office daily, but relocating so would find a place within 20 minutes and on the bus line
Team: Not sure about the team, felt pretty neutral during the interview
Company: FANG company, 10 days PTO, healthcare cheap


The new job has such great potential for more money over my career. Even if leave after 4 years, I could go to another top tech firm paying more. Am I crazy to second guess this new job? At first, I was so excited, but now I feel so nervous and am worried about making a mistake.
No, you are not cut-out for this job. Otherwise you wouldn't be writing (or even thinking) about all that strikethrough text. Don't get me wrong. There is no shame in that and I should know because a couple years ago I got offered and rejected a similar job offer while a few months prior to that my good friend took it. We are very different personalities. And we're both happy with our choices today.
Confused why I am not cut out for it?

quantAndHold
Posts: 3627
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by quantAndHold » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:12 pm

The biggest issue is the relationship issue, which we Bogleheads, by the rules of the forum, cannot help you with. I think this is a good career opportunity for you, but not if it’s at the expense of your relationship.

One thing I know is that they do enough hiring that if you turn them down now because of relationship issues, they won’t hold it against you if you want to interview again in a year. There’s no guarantee that you would pass the interview the second time, but if you got the offer his time, odds are good you would get another offer in a year. And if you do something interesting in the meantime, there might be some more money in the offer.

srt7
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:19 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by srt7 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:31 pm

Broadway2018 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:27 pm
Confused why I am not cut out for it?
That is a cut-throat competitive world and you are far too nice for it.
I can't think of anything more luxurious than owning my time. - remomnyc

EddyB
Posts: 1147
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by EddyB » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:44 pm

srt7 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:31 pm
Broadway2018 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:27 pm
Confused why I am not cut out for it?
That is a cut-throat competitive world and you are far too nice for it.
I don’t think it’s about being nice; maybe if you mean that showing the job isn’t the top priority may be detrimental, I’d follow you. Realistically, on the question of “work-life balance,” the gap between how people hold themselves out and how they act has huge variance, in both directions.

HawkeyePierce
Posts: 876
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:29 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by HawkeyePierce » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:56 pm

srt7 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:31 pm
Broadway2018 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:27 pm
Confused why I am not cut out for it?
That is a cut-throat competitive world and you are far too nice for it.
It's really not that cut-throat.

psy1
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:40 am

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by psy1 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:58 pm

Wander around the worksite at the FAANG job and notice how many 50 year olds there are and picture your future. I will be contrarian and say keep your current job, enjoy the vacation, and buy FAANG stocks.

I recently toured a high end tech company - it looked like a museum of 20 year olds who lived at wrk. Enjoy your home office.

Topic Author
Broadway2018
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 3:34 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Broadway2018 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:02 pm

EddyB wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:44 pm
srt7 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:31 pm
Broadway2018 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:27 pm
Confused why I am not cut out for it?
That is a cut-throat competitive world and you are far too nice for it.
I don’t think it’s about being nice; maybe if you mean that showing the job isn’t the top priority may be detrimental, I’d follow you. Realistically, on the question of “work-life balance,” the gap between how people hold themselves out and how they act has huge variance, in both directions.
I am trying to do my due diligence before uprooting my partner and me to the other side of the US. Asking about work life balance was not a big deal. The hiring manager seemed fine talking about it. And it actually made me feel better about taking the role.

I’m not saying I don’t want to work, however, 12 hours chained to a desk is a lot different then coming in for a few hours and working the rest remote.

EddyB
Posts: 1147
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by EddyB » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:07 pm

Broadway2018 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:02 pm
EddyB wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:44 pm
srt7 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:31 pm
Broadway2018 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:27 pm
Confused why I am not cut out for it?
That is a cut-throat competitive world and you are far too nice for it.
I don’t think it’s about being nice; maybe if you mean that showing the job isn’t the top priority may be detrimental, I’d follow you. Realistically, on the question of “work-life balance,” the gap between how people hold themselves out and how they act has huge variance, in both directions.
I am trying to do my due diligence before uprooting my partner and me to the other side of the US. Asking about work life balance was not a big deal. The hiring manager seemed fine talking about it. And it actually made me feel better about taking the role.

I’m not saying I don’t want to work, however, 12 hours chained to a desk is a lot different then coming in for a few hours and working the rest remote.
Seems totally appropriate to me. Glad it was received reasonably.

KyleAAA
Posts: 7766
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by KyleAAA » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:39 pm

psy1 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:58 pm
Wander around the worksite at the FAANG job and notice how many 50 year olds there are and picture your future. I will be contrarian and say keep your current job, enjoy the vacation, and buy FAANG stocks.

I recently toured a high end tech company - it looked like a museum of 20 year olds who lived at wrk. Enjoy your home office.
There is no shortage of 50 year olds, except at Facebook. Microsoft skews even older.

HawkeyePierce
Posts: 876
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:29 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by HawkeyePierce » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:40 am

psy1 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:58 pm
Wander around the worksite at the FAANG job and notice how many 50 year olds there are and picture your future. I will be contrarian and say keep your current job, enjoy the vacation, and buy FAANG stocks.

I recently toured a high end tech company - it looked like a museum of 20 year olds who lived at wrk. Enjoy your home office.
This is not my experience.

Does it skew young? Sure. Partly that's a function of hoovering up entire graduating classes to fill rapidly-expanding engineering departments. When you're hiring thousands of people a year, that's one way to fill your junior/generalist positions.

Note that the CEO of Google is 47. Microsoft, 52. Twitter, 43. Amazon, a bone-creaking 55.

(Plus, how can you be sure the older workers you didn't see weren't just working from home? ;))

psy1
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:40 am

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by psy1 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:19 pm

Just conjecture on my part: for every 50 year old employee at FAANG, there are many more same-age cast offs. Yes, the companies grow rapidly, but not as rapidly as the world's 20 year olds who follow the rainbow. My point is that the plan should be relatively short term and account for obsolescence. I would not get a 30 yr mortgage in that field for example.

Topic Author
Broadway2018
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 3:34 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Broadway2018 » Fri May 24, 2019 8:25 am

Updating the post: I took the job and move at the end of June. House is going on the market this weekend. Feeling very anxious and nervous, but also excited at the opportunity. Also, my spouse is moving when the house sells and as far as her job she will figure it out as this process continues.

I couldn't turn down that much money and opportunity. I know money isn't everything, but having the opportunity to save and invest for the future more is very appealing.

HEDGEFUNDIE
Posts: 3973
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:06 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE » Fri May 24, 2019 8:30 am

Congratulations and best of luck!

Just be prepared for a new habit: checking the price of AMZN every morning and calculating what that means for your TC 😉

veindoc
Posts: 636
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:04 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by veindoc » Fri May 24, 2019 8:44 am

Broadway2018 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 8:25 am
Updating the post: I took the job and move at the end of June. House is going on the market this weekend. Feeling very anxious and nervous, but also excited at the opportunity. Also, my spouse is moving when the house sells and as far as her job she will figure it out as this process continues.

I couldn't turn down that much money and opportunity. I know money isn't everything, but having the opportunity to save and invest for the future more is very appealing.
Congrats and good luck! Excited for you.

rj342
Posts: 669
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:21 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by rj342 » Fri May 24, 2019 9:50 am

pward wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:41 pm
Being someone working as an engineer at a FANG company I can tell you that your offer seems very fair, so I don't think there's much room for negotiations. The only thing that sticks out to me as unattractive is only 10 days of vacation (I get unlimited PTO and that's really nice...). I mean at the end of the day how much you enjoy the company and team is the biggest thing, but even if you wind up not enjoying your time at this company getting some time at a big name does open a lot of doors and looks really good on a resume going forward...
Question re unlimited PTO -- How does that work in practice?
I've read about situations where people end up taking LESS vacation because they don't feel like there is a safe floor of what to take without getting into murky territory about pulling their weight in terms of time taken off versus pay.

thx1138
Posts: 1014
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:14 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by thx1138 » Fri May 24, 2019 11:02 am

Congratulations and very best of luck on the move and the new job!

HawkeyePierce
Posts: 876
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:29 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by HawkeyePierce » Fri May 24, 2019 11:21 am

rj342 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:50 am
pward wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:41 pm
Being someone working as an engineer at a FANG company I can tell you that your offer seems very fair, so I don't think there's much room for negotiations. The only thing that sticks out to me as unattractive is only 10 days of vacation (I get unlimited PTO and that's really nice...). I mean at the end of the day how much you enjoy the company and team is the biggest thing, but even if you wind up not enjoying your time at this company getting some time at a big name does open a lot of doors and looks really good on a resume going forward...
Question re unlimited PTO -- How does that work in practice?
I've read about situations where people end up taking LESS vacation because they don't feel like there is a safe floor of what to take without getting into murky territory about pulling their weight in terms of time taken off versus pay.
Comes down to your team and manager. I work for a company with "unlimited" PTO and I've been able to take 7-8 weeks a year without trouble. Meanwhile, I know people in other parts of the company who barely take 2.

almostretired1965
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by almostretired1965 » Fri May 24, 2019 9:12 pm

Congrats and a bit late for my 2 cents, but you made the right decision. I finally made the move and accepted an offer to take a senior IC role with a major tech company to move out to the Seattle area last year. Financially it was a no brainer, since I effectively doubled my expected total compensation for the first two years between the signing bonus and the first half of RSUs. In the past I've held back due to sheer inertia, concerns about leaving my elderly parents who still reside in the DC area, and a comfort level I've developed working mainly in the defense/intel space.

I'm at a completely different point in my career since I am in my mid-fifties and was actually contemplating retirement. Prior to this, I worked in the DC area, mostly government consulting outfits with heavy IT orientation. I've managed large teams in the past, but I prefer not to deal with HR responsibilities so I decided to opt out of direct people management over the past decade or so.

Frankly, I should have made the move 10 - 15 years ago. The tech scene here is awesome for anyone with talent and ambition. (I like to think I still have a lot of the former, but these days, not much of the latter.....) If you can deal with the the gloominess for most of winter, I find the weather to be much more pleasant than pretty much anywhere on the East Coast. The cost of living seems a bit higher than in DC metro, but if you have substantially higher than median income, the income to sale/property tax trade-off works in your favor. In my opinion, neither you nor your SO will regret it.

Post Reply