Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

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Topic Author
Broadway2018
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Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Broadway2018 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:03 pm

I posted on here last week about my FANG job offer, however, the post was locked so starting a new one.

I finally received numbers and now that it is real I am unsure what to do.

Current Job
Salary: $130,000 plus $5,000 bonus
Commute: zero, I work from home
Team: I don't love the work, but my boss is a really nice person and I get along well with her. Also, I just started on this team 3 months ago so if I leave how can I not burn a bridge. Been w/ company 4 years but just switched teams.
Company: Great benefits, 30 days PTO, well-being program, 16 weeks maternity leave, pension (small but still something), cell phone paid, overall great work-life balance

New Job
Salary: $149,000
Signing Bonus: $60,000 first year and $40,000 the second year
RSUs: $130,000 vesting over 4 years - stock could go up making this more money
Commute: go to office daily, but relocating so would find a place within 20 minutes and on the bus line
Team: Not sure about the team, felt pretty neutral during the interview
Company: FANG company, 10 days PTO, healthcare cheap

The new job has such great potential for more money over my career. Even if leave after 4 years, I could go to another top tech firm paying more. Am I crazy to second guess this new job? At first, I was so excited, but now I feel so nervous and am worried about making a mistake.

z3r0c00l
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by z3r0c00l » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:06 pm

I would go for the money unless you think the new job might have dangerously low job security.

123
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by 123 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:14 pm

Take the new job offer and be proud. If you turn down the new job offer what more would you reasonable expect to be offered to make you move?

As an aside the more jobs you have had the easier it is to get (and take) a new better offer in the FANG world.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.

HawkeyePierce
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by HawkeyePierce » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:17 pm

What title did they offer you?

10 days PTO sounds oddly low for a FANG. I can rule out Netflix and Amazon based on the RSU package. That leaves Facebook and Google, neither of which has a PTO policy that anemic for FTEs.

Is this an offer for a software engineer position? If so it sounds on the low side but hard to say without knowing the title and location. Ignoring the signing bonus you're looking at a total comp of about $181k.

Depends on the specific company, but it's usually pretty easy to switch teams once you're in. Even if that team doesn't work out, if you like the company you should be able to move around. Or just hit your cliff on the RSUs and take off. It's pretty common.

Strayshot
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Strayshot » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:17 pm

FAANG will work you for the money. If you are young and driven, especially in tech, you are probably putting in the hours anyways because you have no commitments and would just be playing video games otherwise.
Levels.fyi is a good salary comparison site for big tech. Accurate as well based on my known data points.
It’s sort of like being a physician. You can make 300k a year working 70+ hours a week with call, or you can be a nurse practitioner/anesthetist and make 30-50% of that but work 40 hours a week with way less education.
Just depends what you want.........

Goal33
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Goal33 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:18 pm

Go for it. After some RSU refreshers it’ll be even more.
A man with one watch always knows what time it is; a man with two watches is never sure.

Topic Author
Broadway2018
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Broadway2018 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:19 pm

123 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:14 pm
As an aside the more jobs you have had the easier it is to get (and take) a new better offer in the FANG world.
I have had four jobs, but I am getting older and job hopping every 3-4 years is getting old. Also, my current employer has been great to me and is a Fortune 50 company. My dad was sick and I was able to take 3 months paid leave. I am very grateful for that. However, $80-90k increases don't happen often.

IngognitoUSA
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by IngognitoUSA » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:20 pm

Take it to Blind.

averagedude
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by averagedude » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:22 pm

I would do what a sports athlete would do. Go where the money is. To hell with what will bring me accolades and job satisfaction, especially if you think it will be a short career. Spend less than you earn though.

thx1138
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by thx1138 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:23 pm

Over four years the new job is around $200k annual compensation. It’ll definitely be more work hours and what not of course. But you don’t have to stay there forever either. As I recall from the previous thread the new job is also in a location you are interested in moving to.

As long as you are OK with more hours working for the next few years this sounds like a good opportunity. After your four years if you decide you don’t like it you should be in a great position to move to another job with a better work life balance.

I’d say go for it.

HawkeyePierce
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by HawkeyePierce » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:24 pm

Strayshot wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:17 pm
FAANG will work you for the money. If you are young and driven, especially in tech, you are probably putting in the hours anyways because you have no commitments and would just be playing video games otherwise.
Levels.fyi is a good salary comparison site for big tech. Accurate as well based on my known data points.
It’s sort of like being a physician. You can make 300k a year working 70+ hours a week with call, or you can be a nurse practitioner/anesthetist and make 30-50% of that but work 40 hours a week with way less education.
Just depends what you want.........
My experience in tech is that this is not universally true. I'm a software engineer at a major SF tech company and nobody in our org works more than 40 hours a week. There are certainly other parts of the company where people work longer hours but it's far from required.

60+ hour weeks may be common in these companies but if you're picky about the team you join they're pretty avoidable.

Regattamom
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Regattamom » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:05 pm

Most people seem to be excited about the money and I get that it's a lot more. But you get 30 days PTO a year with your current job! That's huge! Along with the maternity leave (especially if you are thinking about having kids) and a pension. It sounds like your current employer is attempting to help employees with a work/life balance and that counts for a lot in my book.

What are your goals financially, personally and professionally? Can you achieve them by staying at your current job or do you need to take the new job to get there?

Is your fiance going to want to move again in four years if you burn out from this job? Is she happy where she is now?

Plus, I live in the PNW and I love it but you couldn't get me to move to Seattle now. Twenty years ago I would have, even ten years ago. I don't mind the homeless situation as much as some on here do, but the traffic, cost of housing, and the giddiness with which Seattleites want to tax themselves at every opportunity is unnappealing to me now.

Good luck with your decision.

Topic Author
Broadway2018
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Broadway2018 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:14 pm

Regattamom wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:05 pm
Most people seem to be excited about the money and I get that it's a lot more. But you get 30 days PTO a year with your current job! That's huge! Along with the maternity leave (especially if you are thinking about having kids) and a pension. It sounds like your current employer is attempting to help employees with a work/life balance and that counts for a lot in my book.

What are your goals financially, personally and professionally? Can you achieve them by staying at your current job or do you need to take the new job to get there?

Is your fiance going to want to move again in four years if you burn out from this job? Is she happy where she is now?

Plus, I live in the PNW and I love it but you couldn't get me to move to Seattle now. Twenty years ago I would have, even ten years ago. I don't mind the homeless situation as much as some on here do, but the traffic, cost of housing, and the giddiness with which Seattleites want to tax themselves at every opportunity is unnappealing to me now.

Good luck with your decision.
I am 31 years old and my fiance is 35 years old. Not sure when we would have kids - if at all, but it's an option we discuss from time to time. She is happy where she is but we have discussed moving. We are not dying to move or anything - we just think it would be fun to try out a new place.

I guess right now I am motivated by money as we don't have any savings except retirements which is only at $130k. This would jump start us into having savings and more money to put towards retirement. Also, I live in MD and new job is in WA. We automatically get 9-10% more income just from not paying taxes. Our current mortgage is $2400 so if we could rent a 1 bedroom for under $2000, we could save some serious money.

Regattamom
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Regattamom » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:31 pm

Broadway2018 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:14 pm
Regattamom wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:05 pm
Most people seem to be excited about the money and I get that it's a lot more. But you get 30 days PTO a year with your current job! That's huge! Along with the maternity leave (especially if you are thinking about having kids) and a pension. It sounds like your current employer is attempting to help employees with a work/life balance and that counts for a lot in my book.

What are your goals financially, personally and professionally? Can you achieve them by staying at your current job or do you need to take the new job to get there?

Is your fiance going to want to move again in four years if you burn out from this job? Is she happy where she is now?

Plus, I live in the PNW and I love it but you couldn't get me to move to Seattle now. Twenty years ago I would have, even ten years ago. I don't mind the homeless situation as much as some on here do, but the traffic, cost of housing, and the giddiness with which Seattleites want to tax themselves at every opportunity is unnappealing to me now.

Good luck with your decision.
I am 31 years old and my fiance is 35 years old. Not sure when we would have kids - if at all, but it's an option we discuss from time to time. She is happy where she is but we have discussed moving. We are not dying to move or anything - we just think it would be fun to try out a new place.

I guess right now I am motivated by money as we don't have any savings except retirements which is only at $130k. This would jump start us into having savings and more money to put towards retirement. Also, I live in MD and new job is in WA. We automatically get 9-10% more income just from not paying taxes. Our current mortgage is $2400 so if we could rent a 1 bedroom for under $2000, we could save some serious money.
I am sure you'll come to the right decision for you. I was curious though and I just did a Zillow search for a 1 bedroom with at least 1,000 square feet under $2,000 dollars. The results are very few.

Topic Author
Broadway2018
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Broadway2018 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:39 pm

Regattamom wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:31 pm
I am sure you'll come to the right decision for you. I was curious though and I just did a Zillow search for a 1 bedroom with at least 1,000 square feet under $2,000 dollars. The results are very few.
I see quite a few in Green Lake and Wallingford. Probably end up with something around 800 sq ft..

quantAndHold
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by quantAndHold » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:55 pm

Pros and cons...

From a career perspective, the job is a good launching pad. If you do well at that company, there is lots of room to move up. If you dislike the company, a lot of other companies love to hire people with that name on their resume. There are a lot of other companies in Seattle, some right next door, who would be glad to have you, and pay comparable money.

Work life balance. It could go either way. Some teams are pretty sane, some aren’t. If you’re on a team that isn’t working out, changing is actually not that hard. 10 days of PTO sounds wrong. I think it’s more like 10 days of PTO plus several days of personal time, plus there’s sick leave.

The biggest con for me was the quality of the management team was very hit and miss, and you could have a good manager....or not. This was finally the straw that broke he camels back for me. There was a NY Times article in 2015 about the work culture. If you have not read it, you should. The article tells about stuff that doesn’t happen to everyone every day, but did happen to me, and I was not alone.

The city. $2000 will not get you a decent apartment near work. It’s very possible to find a place within bike, bus, or walk distance hat you can afford on that salary, but not for $2000. There are $2000 places, but they will have a significant commute, or they will be college student places.

All in all, I’m glad I did it and had the experience. When they contacted me recently and asked if I was interested in a second round, I said no.

HornedToad
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by HornedToad » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:09 pm

Take the money and the increased career growth options in ~4 years when you consider what's next from your career. You are too young to settle long term unless you also have a direct path to promotions in current role and it doesn't read that way.

Hopefully you aren't in a crazy hours team in presumably AMZN

ssquared87
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by ssquared87 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:38 pm

Broadway2018 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:39 pm
Regattamom wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:31 pm
I am sure you'll come to the right decision for you. I was curious though and I just did a Zillow search for a 1 bedroom with at least 1,000 square feet under $2,000 dollars. The results are very few.
I see quite a few in Green Lake and Wallingford. Probably end up with something around 800 sq ft..
That’s easily a 30 minute bus ride in traffic, which exceeds the 20 minutes you’re shooting for, plus you need to add the time it takes you to get to/from the bus

DonIce
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by DonIce » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:20 am

Broadway2018 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:03 pm
The new job has such great potential for more money over my career. Even if leave after 4 years, I could go to another top tech firm paying more. Am I crazy to second guess this new job? At first, I was so excited, but now I feel so nervous and am worried about making a mistake.
Not gonna comment on the city, commute, housing, etc, as that discussion probably contributed to why the first thread was locked. From the perspective of job, pay, and career, it is an obvious improvement and an exciting opportunity. Go for it!

leveraged
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by leveraged » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:58 am

I would take the job, assuming your fiance will be able to find work easily and you're not super attached to WFH. Looks like your yearly comp will be around $209k. According to Fidelity's "Changing Jobs" calculator, that's similar to earning $222k in Baltimore (adjusting for COL and taxes). An $87k raise, minus whatever you value the additional PTO at. See if you can negotiate it even higher. Also, give the manager a call and get a better feel for the team than "neutral".

You will be able to find a 1BR for $2k within an easy bus ride, though it will probably be smaller than 800 sq ft. And it's a great time of year to move.

krv
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by krv » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:28 am

OP: Judging from the description, this is an Amazon offer (I'm 99% sure :), and looks pretty standard/good (partially depends on which level they offered you).

I would 100% take this offer for career development reasons alone (even though the compensation is nice too). Note that PTO goes up to 3 weeks from your second year onwards. If your offer is for the Amazon retail business, being able to switch to the AWS business unit and a stint there is huge to have on your resume going forward. If your offer is for AWS, Alexa or even the Devices team (Kindle, Kindle Fire, etc.), these are all really great teams from a career prospects perspective. Almost every tech company is represented here in Seattle (in addition to Amazon and MS headquarters - Google, FB, Oracle, etc. all have thousands of engineers here), so if you move out here and hate Amazon, switching is very easy (modulo interviewing of course).

Feel free to PM me through the forum...I'm happy to give you more details or answer questions that are harder to ask on the open forum over 1:1 messages.

scooters
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by scooters » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:41 am

Be sure to negotiate the offer. One of the best posts on negotiating as an engineer is here: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/sa ... gotiation/

CAP_theorem
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by CAP_theorem » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:22 pm

All my best growth personally, professionally, and compensation wise has occurred when changing jobs. You meet new people, learn new things, and build a better professional network. It's almost always a good idea to take the job and if it's FANG it's a stepping stone to the next thing.

You don't get to switch jobs often. Make sure you interview at all the best companies every time to collect the best offers you can when you are looking. Do keep in mind that they keep records of your interview performance, and while they do expect you to grow you need to leave a good paper trail.

I just had a three way bidding war between three different FAANG. Slightly fudging the numbers for anonymity, but 230k base, 20% annual bonus, 45k sign on bonus, and 1.2 million dollar stock grant vesting over four years. I'm still not the highest paid person I know.

Those numbers mean absolutely nothing to you personally since your own situation and what you can pull is entirely different, but I what I want to impress upon you is that they are capable of paying a lot more.

You want to get an interview for the highest level you are capable of at multiple companies, nail it and get an offer approved at that level at multiple companies, and then negotiate from there. If you haven't heard the words best and final then you aren't there yet.

Once you have done the groundwork for your next job change pick the one that will develop your career the most. Do good work, and in 2-4 years go interview at those same companies again until you find a better opportunity. Rinse and repeat until it stops working.

Identifying what will be best for your career is harder, but it's basically whatever gives you the most visibility, the best references, connects you with the best people etc. The path to your next job is paved by all your previous jobs. My best offer came because of people I worked with over the past 10 years endorsing me.

Make hay while the sun is shining. The future is not guaranteed.

dayzero
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by dayzero » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:04 pm

Broadway2018 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:03 pm
I posted on here last week about my FANG job offer, however, the post was locked so starting a new one.

I finally received numbers and now that it is real I am unsure what to do.

Current Job
Salary: $130,000 plus $5,000 bonus
Commute: zero, I work from home
Team: I don't love the work, but my boss is a really nice person and I get along well with her. Also, I just started on this team 3 months ago so if I leave how can I not burn a bridge. Been w/ company 4 years but just switched teams.
Company: Great benefits, 30 days PTO, well-being program, 16 weeks maternity leave, pension (small but still something), cell phone paid, overall great work-life balance

New Job
Salary: $149,000
Signing Bonus: $60,000 first year and $40,000 the second year
RSUs: $130,000 vesting over 4 years - stock could go up making this more money
Commute: go to office daily, but relocating so would find a place within 20 minutes and on the bus line
Team: Not sure about the team, felt pretty neutral during the interview
Company: FANG company, 10 days PTO, healthcare cheap

The new job has such great potential for more money over my career. Even if leave after 4 years, I could go to another top tech firm paying more. Am I crazy to second guess this new job? At first, I was so excited, but now I feel so nervous and am worried about making a mistake.
What level and what job family / role?

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beyou
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by beyou » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:22 pm

Go for the most $ and best resume building you can when you are young.
More years of compounding what you earn, and capitalizing on what you learn.

A boss of mine uses to say, if you want a friend get a dog.
You are not there to make friends, you are there to make money.

If you are independently wealthy, ignore all I said and say where you are now.

Gronnie
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Gronnie » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:26 pm

I recently moved from MN to CA for a tech job.

I turned down FAANG offers and having to work a ton of hours and live in the Bay Area for a job in SoCal (Irvine) that pays about 75-80% as much and offers much better work/life balance. In the 7 months I've been here I haven't put in >40 hours a single time and just got a wonderful review.

It really becomes a personal decision about work/life balance vs salary and what you value at this point in your life.

MindBogler
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by MindBogler » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:50 pm

Broadway2018 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:14 pm
Also, I live in MD and new job is in WA. We automatically get 9-10% more income just from not paying taxes. Our current mortgage is $2400 so if we could rent a 1 bedroom for under $2000, we could save some serious money.
Washington state doesn't operate without tax revenue. Instead of income tax there is a sales tax, liquor tax, etc. and you'll also pay property tax regardless of whether you rent or own. You need to compare total tax burden to make reasonable comparisons between Maryland and Washington (it may be less, I don't know).

I'm in the camp that says you should take the job. A raise of that magnitude doesn't come along often. The money will be nice and you'll have great resume material if and when you get tired and are ready to move on.

assyadh
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by assyadh » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:03 pm

IngognitoUSA wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:20 pm
Take it to Blind.
This.

Topic Author
Broadway2018
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Broadway2018 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:36 pm

CAP_theorem wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:22 pm

I just had a three way bidding war between three different FAANG. Slightly fudging the numbers for anonymity, but 230k base, 20% annual bonus, 45k sign on bonus, and 1.2 million dollar stock grant vesting over four years. I'm still not the highest paid person I know.

Those numbers mean absolutely nothing to you personally since your own situation and what you can pull is entirely different, but I what I want to impress upon you is that they are capable of paying a lot more.

You want to get an interview for the highest level you are capable of at multiple companies, nail it and get an offer approved at that level at multiple companies, and then negotiate from there. If you haven't heard the words best and final then you aren't there yet.

Once you have done the groundwork for your next job change pick the one that will develop your career the most. Do good work, and in 2-4 years go interview at those same companies again until you find a better opportunity. Rinse and repeat until it stops working.

Identifying what will be best for your career is harder, but it's basically whatever gives you the most visibility, the best references, connects you with the best people etc. The path to your next job is paved by all your previous jobs. My best offer came because of people I worked with over the past 10 years endorsing me.

Make hay while the sun is shining. The future is not guaranteed.
So my story is more involved... I was interviewing for jobs the last 8 months, but none of the offers were close together.

Nov 2019 - offered $160k by startup where I live
Dec 2019 - started interviewing at FANG
Feb 2019 - offered $180k chase job offer
Mar 2019 - changed teams at current company - no pay increase
Apr 2019 - FANG called and did on site. Received job offer.

So not much leverage and not sure why FANG took so long. Now I am in a situation where I just started on a new team at my current company. Leaving now would burn a bridge and be awkward.

Also, Been trying to negotiate and they said this is the max offer.

Unicorn1
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Unicorn1 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:02 pm

Companies will lay off employees in a heartbeat and think nothing of it. Yet I always find it strange when employees are unwilling to advance their own careers by leaving for a great opportunity because of how they might be perceived by those at the current employer. It's just business. You're not burning a bridge by taking a new job after providing adequate notice. If your employer feels this way, that's their problem, not yours.

pward
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by pward » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:41 pm

Being someone working as an engineer at a FANG company I can tell you that your offer seems very fair, so I don't think there's much room for negotiations. The only thing that sticks out to me as unattractive is only 10 days of vacation (I get unlimited PTO and that's really nice...). I mean at the end of the day how much you enjoy the company and team is the biggest thing, but even if you wind up not enjoying your time at this company getting some time at a big name does open a lot of doors and looks really good on a resume going forward...

pward
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by pward » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:50 pm

HawkeyePierce wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:24 pm
Strayshot wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:17 pm
FAANG will work you for the money. If you are young and driven, especially in tech, you are probably putting in the hours anyways because you have no commitments and would just be playing video games otherwise.
Levels.fyi is a good salary comparison site for big tech. Accurate as well based on my known data points.
It’s sort of like being a physician. You can make 300k a year working 70+ hours a week with call, or you can be a nurse practitioner/anesthetist and make 30-50% of that but work 40 hours a week with way less education.
Just depends what you want.........
My experience in tech is that this is not universally true. I'm a software engineer at a major SF tech company and nobody in our org works more than 40 hours a week. There are certainly other parts of the company where people work longer hours but it's far from required.

60+ hour weeks may be common in these companies but if you're picky about the team you join they're pretty avoidable.
Agreed, it all depends on the team you wind up on. I'm on a pretty cushy team where I am able to pretty much come and go as I please provided that I get my projects done on time (which I always do). I would say it's a rarity that I even work a full 40 hours in a week. The only real exception is the 2-3 weeks per year that I'm on call, but even then we don't get called often after-hours. There are other teams in the company that are stressed and work crazy hours though, so you just gotta vet the company and team on the interview. Interviewers will be honest with you if you ask because they want to ensure you're a match for that team as much as you do. It costs a lot of money to on-board someone who isn't going to be happy and stick.

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ClevrChico
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by ClevrChico » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:59 pm

Regattamom wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:05 pm
Most people seem to be excited about the money and I get that it's a lot more. But you get 30 days PTO a year with your current job! That's huge! Along with the maternity leave (especially if you are thinking about having kids) and a pension. It sounds like your current employer is attempting to help employees with a work/life balance and that counts for a lot in my book.

What are your goals financially, personally and professionally? Can you achieve them by staying at your current job or do you need to take the new job to get there?

Is your fiance going to want to move again in four years if you burn out from this job? Is she happy where she is now?

Plus, I live in the PNW and I love it but you couldn't get me to move to Seattle now. Twenty years ago I would have, even ten years ago. I don't mind the homeless situation as much as some on here do, but the traffic, cost of housing, and the giddiness with which Seattleites want to tax themselves at every opportunity is unnappealing to me now.

Good luck with your decision.
+1 - I'm in the minority, and I'd likely decline the decline the FANG offer.

30 days PTO + WFH + good boss + competitive pay at your current job is a dream! Move to a LCOL area, work remote, and live like a king? That's what I'd do.

Your new offer is quite good though. (Aside from the horrible PTO and the company's past culture reputation.) I know a good proportion of tech workers will sacrifice a lot for their careers. If that's your personality, go for it.
Last edited by ClevrChico on Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rgs92
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by rgs92 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:01 pm

Stay with the old job. Don't break what's not broken.
You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone.
Changing jobs can be like stepping into a minefield, *especially* in IT. Lots of IT jobs are just impossible to do and can be heck on earth.
Last edited by rgs92 on Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CAP_theorem
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by CAP_theorem » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 pm

Broadway2018 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:36 pm
So my story is more involved... I was interviewing for jobs the last 8 months, but none of the offers were close together.

Nov 2019 - offered $160k by startup where I live
Dec 2019 - started interviewing at FANG
Feb 2019 - offered $180k chase job offer
Mar 2019 - changed teams at current company - no pay increase
Apr 2019 - FANG called and did on site. Received job offer.

So not much leverage and not sure why FANG took so long. Now I am in a situation where I just started on a new team at my current company. Leaving now would burn a bridge and be awkward.

Also, Been trying to negotiate and they said this is the max offer.
For FANG (and many others) there are a few basic factors that determine your starting compensation. Subsequent raises, bonuses, and refreshers follow a different process based on performance reviews of some sort and will be pretty tightly bound by your level without exceptions.

The first and primary thing is the level they approved to make an offer for. When they interview you they give you an interview loop that is sometimes only good up to some level. What they give you depends on how they have pigeon holed you based on your resume and career so it pays to present that in its best light. Dress for the job you want so to speak. If you have been functioning at a higher level then put those activities on your resume first and loudest. How you speak about what you do in the interview loop also matters.

Then within each level they have the standard offer which they will first make. It's usually not good and can be improved on by not accepting unless they are really take it or leave it about you. You want to get to the highest offer they are willing to make for your level. From their perspective it's just a number and they will offer you a higher number if they think you have an alternative that is better than theirs. However they are unlikely to exceed the comp for the level.

But... some of the time people get assigned to the wrong level and someone at the company really wants you to do what they need to do or the company simply isn't competitive at the level you are at compared to other companies. This is a harder situation to get in because it requires you to be differentiated and have some who values that differentiation. They may have extra budget or a limited pool of exceptions they can use to exceed compensation for that level and make you a better offer BUT when it comes time for bonuses and refreshers they will still be at the level you are at so future comp is not as rosy. The expectation is that if your level is wrong is they will fix it because it's a meritocracy :oops: and if you don't perform well enough to level up then it's your problem.

Check out levels.fyi for a rough description of where comp is right now. It's not totally wrong. I would be shooting for 400k combined although I don't know your work history so I can't say what you can swing. Don't be afraid to say it because it's part of what guides people to giving you an interview loop at the level you want.

Are all the companies you have offers from aware of each other? When I interview I am very transparent about who I am interviewing with, and even the offers they are making. IME the companies that pay well respond very well to other offers, but in the absence of information will not do much other then give you the standard offer. I try and make it sound like I am on the fence with each company and that it's between them and one other company that currently has the best offer so it seems like they have real competition.

I know classic negotiation advice is to maintain an information advantage, but companies are quite willing to let people decline when they would happily match if presented with another offer.

Focusing on your case. Have you had a higher offer and presented it to the recruiter and they said they can't do anything? Because until you do that it's just smoke and mirrors. Every recruiter is different and some can be slimy.

Also you say you have interviewed a few places, but have you interviewed at ALL the good places? You should at least have interviewed at FB, Google, and Netflix even if only to get practice. Have you read cracking the coding interview? Done the free interviews on interviewing.io?

Can you present your career so that you can get an offer at a higher level? The things to emphasize are mentoring, initiative and leadership. Team wide, cross team, and global impact. Poof, like magic you will get paid more for the things you are already doing simply by asking people to recognize it. If you don't, they will continue to get it for free.

Honestly getting a job is a full time job in and of itself and it's the best paid job by hourly rate you will ever have.

dayzero
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by dayzero » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:18 pm

pward wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:41 pm
Being someone working as an engineer at a FANG company I can tell you that your offer seems very fair, ...
Not possible to say without specifying level / role, which we do not know. If OP provides level / role then we can provide feedback on the offer.

Topic Author
Broadway2018
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Broadway2018 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:33 pm

L6 people manager non-tech

Topic Author
Broadway2018
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Broadway2018 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:34 pm

dayzero wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:18 pm
pward wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:41 pm
Being someone working as an engineer at a FANG company I can tell you that your offer seems very fair, ...
Not possible to say without specifying level / role, which we do not know. If OP provides level / role then we can provide feedback on the offer.
L6 people manager non-tech

BSBHead
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by BSBHead » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:05 pm

HawkeyePierce wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:17 pm
What title did they offer you?

10 days PTO sounds oddly low for a FANG. I can rule out Netflix and Amazon based on the RSU package. That leaves Facebook and Google, neither of which has a PTO policy that anemic for FTEs.

Is this an offer for a software engineer position? If so it sounds on the low side but hard to say without knowing the title and location. Ignoring the signing bonus you're looking at a total comp of about $181k.

Depends on the specific company, but it's usually pretty easy to switch teams once you're in. Even if that team doesn't work out, if you like the company you should be able to move around. Or just hit your cliff on the RSUs and take off. It's pretty common.

Adding on here. The loss of 20 PTO days is like basically losing $10k in compensation based on your salary, so factor that one in. Lots of people do not survive at AMZN despite the RSU carrots as the work environment can be difficult in certain departments. As such, be confident the work environment is one you can comfortable in for both your sake and especially your wife's. The wealth improvement cited is not going to be there if your wife wants to divorce you after 4 years.

HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:07 pm

BSBHead wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:05 pm
HawkeyePierce wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:17 pm
What title did they offer you?

10 days PTO sounds oddly low for a FANG. I can rule out Netflix and Amazon based on the RSU package. That leaves Facebook and Google, neither of which has a PTO policy that anemic for FTEs.

Is this an offer for a software engineer position? If so it sounds on the low side but hard to say without knowing the title and location. Ignoring the signing bonus you're looking at a total comp of about $181k.

Depends on the specific company, but it's usually pretty easy to switch teams once you're in. Even if that team doesn't work out, if you like the company you should be able to move around. Or just hit your cliff on the RSUs and take off. It's pretty common.

Adding on here. The loss of 20 PTO days is like basically losing $10k in compensation based on your salary, so factor that one in. Lots of people do not survive at AMZN despite the RSU carrots as the work environment can be difficult in certain departments. As such, be confident the work environment is one you can comfortable in for both your sake and especially your wife's. The wealth improvement cited is not going to be there if your wife wants to divorce you after 4 years.
I’ve always wondered why AMZN folks don’t strike a deal with their managers - “if you can make my job tolerable for the next four years, I’d be willing to share X% of my RSUs as they vest”

MindBogler
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by MindBogler » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:15 pm

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:07 pm
I’ve always wondered why AMZN folks don’t strike a deal with their managers - “if you can make my job tolerable for the next four years, I’d be willing to share X% of my RSUs as they vest”
Great idea!

🍻

dayzero
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by dayzero » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:36 pm

Broadway2018 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:33 pm
L6 people manager non-tech
I mean, I would definitely take it, it's a decent offer. If you have the interest/skills to transition into tech I would advise you to go that route. If you have software engineering skills you can try for straight lateral to SDM in a year or so, if not, you could transition through PM and TPM into SDM. In general, non-tech roles are compensated one level down from SDE/SDM until you reach L8 or above, and AWS is compensated higher than retail. What I'm saying is if you want to hit the next pay band (275-350) you can either try for the L7 promo or the lateral into L6 tech.

I've had nothing but a positive experience at A, it is certainly a top-tier brand to have on your resume, you'll have recruiters hounding you non-stop. Good luck.

StoopieHippo
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by StoopieHippo » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:43 pm

ssquared87 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:38 pm
Broadway2018 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:39 pm
Regattamom wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:31 pm
I am sure you'll come to the right decision for you. I was curious though and I just did a Zillow search for a 1 bedroom with at least 1,000 square feet under $2,000 dollars. The results are very few.
I see quite a few in Green Lake and Wallingford. Probably end up with something around 800 sq ft..
That’s easily a 30 minute bus ride in traffic, which exceeds the 20 minutes you’re shooting for, plus you need to add the time it takes you to get to/from the bus
From Greenlake to SLU, you're probably looking at an hour on the bus.

Topic Author
Broadway2018
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Broadway2018 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:15 am

StoopieHippo wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:43 pm
ssquared87 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:38 pm
Broadway2018 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:39 pm
Regattamom wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:31 pm
I am sure you'll come to the right decision for you. I was curious though and I just did a Zillow search for a 1 bedroom with at least 1,000 square feet under $2,000 dollars. The results are very few.
I see quite a few in Green Lake and Wallingford. Probably end up with something around 800 sq ft..
That’s easily a 30 minute bus ride in traffic, which exceeds the 20 minutes you’re shooting for, plus you need to add the time it takes you to get to/from the bus
From Greenlake to SLU, you're probably looking at an hour on the bus.
Someone I know who works at FANG stated is between 20 min (not rush hour) and 40 min ( rush hour)

Topic Author
Broadway2018
Posts: 275
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Broadway2018 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:18 am

dayzero wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:36 pm
Broadway2018 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:33 pm
L6 people manager non-tech
I mean, I would definitely take it, it's a decent offer. If you have the interest/skills to transition into tech I would advise you to go that route. If you have software engineering skills you can try for straight lateral to SDM in a year or so, if not, you could transition through PM and TPM into SDM. In general, non-tech roles are compensated one level down from SDE/SDM until you reach L8 or above, and AWS is compensated higher than retail. What I'm saying is if you want to hit the next pay band (275-350) you can either try for the L7 promo or the lateral into L6 tech.

I've had nothing but a positive experience at A, it is certainly a top-tier brand to have on your resume, you'll have recruiters hounding you non-stop. Good luck.
I actually do SQL coding, develop financial applications, sas programming, modeling, data analytics, business requirements, etc.. But I have managed tech teams the past 5 years. I don’t actually want to code but have a lot of knowledge and wouldn’t mind guiding/reviewing a team. This PM role includes doing an implementation so kinda odd it’s non tech. Job description states knowing sql, tableau, etc..

Also have an industrial engineering masters and mba

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Broadway2018
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Broadway2018 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:24 am

Anyone have advice for the following situation?

My partner wants to stay in Baltimore for a year while I go to fang. It seems like a waste of money to pay for a mortgage and an apt plus 2 households. Her reasoning is she is going to be promoted to director and wants it on her resume. But it’s only $10k more money and she wouldn’t have it on her resume that long. Also no telling when she would get a job.

For example, she waits to Jan to look and still only has the title for 6 months. Not sure what difference that will make. She’s pretty adamant about staying a year and I feel this will make our life hectic. Selling our home and moving across the country is tough and now she wants to add finding a temporary place into the mix. Not to mention never seeing each other. I feel like I would be in limbo for a year waiting for her to move.

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Psyayeayeduck
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Psyayeayeduck » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:47 am

If you are young and single, I would say yes because the exposure to a FAANG company will provide current and future benefits to your career, financially and benefit-wise. From what I gathered from my friends who do work for a FAANG company, they usually expect their people to work more than a typical 40 hour workweek and that the team you work for can vary a lot within the same company.

If you are married and/or have children, this question is very hard to answer as I know nothing about your life situation and that can make everything incredibly messy very quickly if your spouse isn't on board with your career plans.

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8foot7
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by 8foot7 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:10 am

Broadway2018 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:24 am
Anyone have advice for the following situation?

My partner wants to stay in Baltimore for a year while I go to fang. It seems like a waste of money to pay for a mortgage and an apt plus 2 households. Her reasoning is she is going to be promoted to director and wants it on her resume. But it’s only $10k more money and she wouldn’t have it on her resume that long. Also no telling when she would get a job.

For example, she waits to Jan to look and still only has the title for 6 months. Not sure what difference that will make. She’s pretty adamant about staying a year and I feel this will make our life hectic. Selling our home and moving across the country is tough and now she wants to add finding a temporary place into the mix. Not to mention never seeing each other. I feel like I would be in limbo for a year waiting for her to move.
It sounds like you two need to get on the same page about whose career controls your location for what duration. I doubt your wife wants to get promoted to director just to leave her company, no matter what she may say at this time. And you want to uproot transcontinentally for a job you seem somewhat ambivalent about. I think y'all need to figure out what you want and what horse you're betting on for the next few years.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:25 am

Broadway2018 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:24 am
Anyone have advice for the following situation?

My partner wants to stay in Baltimore for a year while I go to fang. It seems like a waste of money to pay for a mortgage and an apt plus 2 households. Her reasoning is she is going to be promoted to director and wants it on her resume. But it’s only $10k more money and she wouldn’t have it on her resume that long. Also no telling when she would get a job.

For example, she waits to Jan to look and still only has the title for 6 months. Not sure what difference that will make. She’s pretty adamant about staying a year and I feel this will make our life hectic. Selling our home and moving across the country is tough and now she wants to add finding a temporary place into the mix. Not to mention never seeing each other. I feel like I would be in limbo for a year waiting for her to move.
Translation: Partner likes current situation just fine and has no intention of ever moving. You're free to go and find a new partner out in Rain Land.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

rich126
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Re: Job Offer Evaluation - FANG

Post by rich126 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:02 am

First of all, congratulations on the offer. You are at a age when it makes sense to take it, if you want to.

I'm in my 50s and was surprised a FAANG company responded to a resume and did a phone interview with me. I wasn't a fit for that job (security work that was more web based than I normally do) so I didn't get to the next set of interviews.

In my case I was kind of glad not to go further although I would have done another interview (strictly for the challenge). As someone in their 50s, I'm not interested in dealing with the HCOL of CA. I'm not interested into going back to college life and crashing in a small place with roommates in hopes of cashing in on options in a few years :)

Good luck on your decision.

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