Mortgages

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hifromsocal
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Mortgages

Post by hifromsocal » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:47 pm

Wonder what rates everyone is seeing for jumbo loans. My sister is currently looking and best she got was 4% with 30% down and no points. Her credit is high 700's. TIA

megabad
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Re: Mortgages

Post by megabad » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:38 pm

hifromsocal wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:47 pm
Wonder what rates everyone is seeing for jumbo loans. My sister is currently looking and best she got was 4% with 30% down and no points. Her credit is high 700's. TIA
I would consider 4% for ANY 30 year fixed to be an incredible deal right now and I would rate lock in a heart beat. My latest numbers for non-jumbo were at least 10 basis points above that. Jumbo for me looks like it runs about 4.5-4.6% APR with no points (I use APR, I don't care about interest rate so I have no idea what it is but certainly higher than 4%).

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hifromsocal
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Re: Mortgages

Post by hifromsocal » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:16 am

megabad wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:38 pm
hifromsocal wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:47 pm
Wonder what rates everyone is seeing for jumbo loans. My sister is currently looking and best she got was 4% with 30% down and no points. Her credit is high 700's. TIA
I would consider 4% for ANY 30 year fixed to be an incredible deal right now and I would rate lock in a heart beat. My latest numbers for non-jumbo were at least 10 basis points above that. Jumbo for me looks like it runs about 4.5-4.6% APR with no points (I use APR, I don't care about interest rate so I have no idea what it is but certainly higher than 4%).
APR is calculated based on interest rate plus fees correct?

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hifromsocal
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Re: Mortgages

Post by hifromsocal » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:19 pm

Which would you rather do:

1. 15 year fixed at 3.375 (have decent amount of money left over each month, but not a lot)

2. 30 year at 3.875 ( but try to pay off mortgage earlier with extra payments, but have the flexibility of having great monthly cashflow)

megabad
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Re: Mortgages

Post by megabad » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:47 pm

hifromsocal wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:16 am
APR is calculated based on interest rate plus fees correct?
Yes basically includes interest, bank fees, bank closing costs, and points.

megabad
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Re: Mortgages

Post by megabad » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:56 pm

hifromsocal wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:19 pm
Which would you rather do:

1. 15 year fixed at 3.375 (have decent amount of money left over each month, but not a lot)

2. 30 year at 3.875 ( but try to pay off mortgage earlier with extra payments, but have the flexibility of having great monthly cashflow)
I would need those numbers in APR to tell you what my answer would be , but this is a very personal decision. In my experience, the average young or middle aged family cannot afford the home they are in with a 15 year mortgage upon purchase. As such, a 15 year mortgage may be a good way to ensure "forced savings" regardless of the interest rate but may result in a smaller/less desirable home. For those with highly variable cashflow (ie. self employed), a larger fixed liability may be a problem with a 15 year loan. From a purely numerical standpoint, personally I don't feel like a 13% reduction in rate is worth cutting the term in half. When I last considered a 15 year, the rate difference was closer to 30%. In other words, in your example that would mean the 15 year would need to be something like 2.7 or 2.8 % to be comparable. That is just me and there is really no rhyme or reason to my logic though.

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willthrill81
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Re: Mortgages

Post by willthrill81 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:58 pm

hifromsocal wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:19 pm
Which would you rather do:

1. 15 year fixed at 3.375 (have decent amount of money left over each month, but not a lot)

2. 30 year at 3.875 ( but try to pay off mortgage earlier with extra payments, but have the flexibility of having great monthly cashflow)
I recently started a thread about that specific issue. The cost of paying off a 30 year mortgage in 15 years vs. getting a 15 year mortgage is higher than most seem to realize. Using the rate difference you reference, paying off a 30 year mortgage in 15 years would cost you an extra $4,442.40 for every $100k borrowed vs. taking out a 15 year mortgage in the first place. Yes, the 30 year mortgage gives you additional flexibility, but that comes with a fairly high price tag. I noted in the thread quoted from below that the better move, if possible, is probably to save up the difference in payments between a 15 and 30 year mortgage until you get about six months or so worth. The effective return on that money is very high.
willthrill81 wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:01 pm
This post does not address the value in paying off a mortgage early but rather the choice to specifically take out a 30 year mortgage when one intends to pay it off in 15 years. I've heard people say many times that they were paying off their 30 year mortgage in 15 years, and I've also heard this specifically recommended to others. The reason offered for doing so is flexibility, namely, that if one needs to, they can pay the lower 30 year mortgage payment instead of a higher 15 year mortgage payment. However, what I seldom see discussed when this strategy is offered is the quantifiable cost of doing so in the form of a higher interest rate for a 30 year mortgage rather than a 15 year.

According to Bankrate.com, the 30 year mortgage interest rate as of 1/9/2019 was 5.01%. On this same day, 15 year mortgage rates were 4.07%.

For a $100,000 mortgage paid off in 15 years with a 5.01% interest rate (i.e. paying off a 30 year mortgage in 15 years), the principal and interest payment would be $791.31, and the total interest paid over the 15 years would be $42,435.80. In contrast, the same mortgage paid off in the same time but with a 4.07% interest rate would result in a principal and interest payment of $743.20, and the total interest paid would be $33,776. That's a difference of $8,659.80 for every $100,000 borrowed.

Granted, the above numbers are nominal, so the inflation-adjusted difference would be smaller than $8,659.80, but the point remains that the financial cost of the flexibility offered by this approach is not trivial. My personal opinion is that the better approach is to take out a 15 year mortgage and build up an adequate emergency fund to the point that you're very unlikely to genuinely need the smaller 30 year mortgage payment.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

Quirkz
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Re: Mortgages

Post by Quirkz » Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:26 pm

Last time I was faced with something like this, I took the 20-year to split the difference.
- Rates were pretty close to the 15
- It gave me some of the forced payoff of the 15, without being quite as demanding on the monthly budget
- It gave me a little flexibility from the 30, but guaranteed I wouldn't take 30 years to finish.

Finally, and this may be a psychological thing, the 20-year mortgage starts out very near an even split between interest and principal (happens in the second or third year) while the 30-year mortgage starts out with less than 1/3 going to principal, and it's a full 15 years before you hit the 50-50 mark. The total lack of progress on a 30 year (you're 20 years in before you've paid off half the loan) was unbearable to me.

armeliusc
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Re: Mortgages

Post by armeliusc » Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:45 pm

Quirkz wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:26 pm
Last time I was faced with something like this, I took the 20-year to split the difference.
- Rates were pretty close to the 15
- It gave me some of the forced payoff of the 15, without being quite as demanding on the monthly budget
- It gave me a little flexibility from the 30, but guaranteed I wouldn't take 30 years to finish.

Finally, and this may be a psychological thing, the 20-year mortgage starts out very near an even split between interest and principal (happens in the second or third year) while the 30-year mortgage starts out with less than 1/3 going to principal, and it's a full 15 years before you hit the 50-50 mark. The total lack of progress on a 30 year (you're 20 years in before you've paid off half the loan) was unbearable to me.
This! All of the reasons I also ended up with a 20-year mortgage.

nolesrule
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Re: Mortgages

Post by nolesrule » Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:06 pm

armeliusc wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:45 pm
Quirkz wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:26 pm
Last time I was faced with something like this, I took the 20-year to split the difference.
- Rates were pretty close to the 15
- It gave me some of the forced payoff of the 15, without being quite as demanding on the monthly budget
- It gave me a little flexibility from the 30, but guaranteed I wouldn't take 30 years to finish.

Finally, and this may be a psychological thing, the 20-year mortgage starts out very near an even split between interest and principal (happens in the second or third year) while the 30-year mortgage starts out with less than 1/3 going to principal, and it's a full 15 years before you hit the 50-50 mark. The total lack of progress on a 30 year (you're 20 years in before you've paid off half the loan) was unbearable to me.
This! All of the reasons I also ended up with a 20-year mortgage.
Also a fan of the 20-year mortgage. We refinanced into one 2 years after we got a 30-year. With the rate drop, our payment barely increased.

brianH
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Re: Mortgages

Post by brianH » Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:42 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:58 pm
I recently started a thread about that specific issue. The cost of paying off a 30 year mortgage in 15 years vs. getting a 15 year mortgage is higher than most seem to realize. Using the rate difference you reference, paying off a 30 year mortgage in 15 years would cost you an extra $4,442.40 for every $100k borrowed vs. taking out a 15 year mortgage in the first place. Yes, the 30 year mortgage gives you additional flexibility, but that comes with a fairly high price tag. I noted in the thread quoted from below that the better move, if possible, is probably to save up the difference in payments between a 15 and 30 year mortgage until you get about six months or so worth. The effective return on that money is very high.
If the 15 vs the 30 reduces your cash flow to the point that you can't afford to contribute as much to retirement accounts or are forced to keep a large savings buffer in low-yield accounts for piece of mind, then you've effectively wiped out the small interest rate savings of a 15yr.

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willthrill81
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Re: Mortgages

Post by willthrill81 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:09 pm

brianH wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:42 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:58 pm
I recently started a thread about that specific issue. The cost of paying off a 30 year mortgage in 15 years vs. getting a 15 year mortgage is higher than most seem to realize. Using the rate difference you reference, paying off a 30 year mortgage in 15 years would cost you an extra $4,442.40 for every $100k borrowed vs. taking out a 15 year mortgage in the first place. Yes, the 30 year mortgage gives you additional flexibility, but that comes with a fairly high price tag. I noted in the thread quoted from below that the better move, if possible, is probably to save up the difference in payments between a 15 and 30 year mortgage until you get about six months or so worth. The effective return on that money is very high.
If the 15 vs the 30 reduces your cash flow to the point that you can't afford to contribute as much to retirement accounts or are forced to keep a large savings buffer in low-yield accounts for piece of mind, then you've effectively wiped out the small interest rate savings of a 15yr.
Keep in mind that the effective return on a "savings buffer" that enables you to have a lower interest 15 year mortgage instead of a higher 30 year mortgage can be quite high. For instance, the difference between a 30 year mortgage payment at 3.875% vs. a 15 year at 3.375% for a $100k mortgage is $238.52. So to build a six month buffer between the two, you need $1,431.12. If that buffer allows you to take on the 15 year mortgage instead of paying off a 30 year mortgage in 15 years, then it saves you $296.14 in mortgage interest per year, which works out to a 20.7% annual return. That's very high in my book.

Further, I don't know that I would call saving 4.4% of your mortgaged balance over a 15 year "small," but that's a matter of opinion. Considering that a $250k mortgage is far more typical, we're talking about $11k, which is not insignificant in my view.

Now whether it's a good idea to forego any tax-advantaged space to pay off your mortgage in under 30 years is a different matter entirely and the topic for another thread (we already have dozens if not hundreds).
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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unclescrooge
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Re: Mortgages

Post by unclescrooge » Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:14 pm

hifromsocal wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:19 pm
Which would you rather do:

1. 15 year fixed at 3.375 (have decent amount of money left over each month, but not a lot)

2. 30 year at 3.875 ( but try to pay off mortgage earlier with extra payments, but have the flexibility of having great monthly cashflow)
The 30 year, but are those rates available?

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willthrill81
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Re: Mortgages

Post by willthrill81 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:23 pm

unclescrooge wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:14 pm
hifromsocal wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:19 pm
Which would you rather do:

1. 15 year fixed at 3.375 (have decent amount of money left over each month, but not a lot)

2. 30 year at 3.875 ( but try to pay off mortgage earlier with extra payments, but have the flexibility of having great monthly cashflow)
The 30 year, but are those rates available?
According to SmartAsset, current 15 year rates are averaging 4.05%, and 30 year rates are averaging 4.61%.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

brianH
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Re: Mortgages

Post by brianH » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:26 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:09 pm
Now whether it's a good idea to forego any tax-advantaged space to pay off your mortgage in under 30 years is a different matter entirely and the topic for another thread (we already have dozens if not hundreds).
I guess I don't see the point of the hypothetical. If one plans to make the even, consistent principal payments to reduce the term of a 30y down to 15y, then of course they would be better off just getting the 15y to start with. I would imagine in most cases, the point of the longer term is to free up cash flow for (likely) better investment opportunities or buffer against variable income. In those cases, it's not a matter of saving some interest over the life of the loan, it's avoiding having a monthly payment that can't be met (temporarily) or losing tax-advantaged space.

TXGator
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Re: Mortgages

Post by TXGator » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:30 pm

For my upcoming jumbo with only 10% down (lender-paid PMI of 1/8 point) I got 4.875% for 30 years with no points. Not great but allows us to close without the stress of our current home sold ahead of time.

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willthrill81
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Re: Mortgages

Post by willthrill81 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:38 pm

brianH wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:26 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:09 pm
Now whether it's a good idea to forego any tax-advantaged space to pay off your mortgage in under 30 years is a different matter entirely and the topic for another thread (we already have dozens if not hundreds).
I guess I don't see the point of the hypothetical. If one plans to make the even, consistent principal payments to reduce the term of a 30y down to 15y, then of course they would be better off just getting the 15y to start with. I would imagine in most cases, the point of the longer term is to free up cash flow for (likely) better investment opportunities or buffer against variable income. In those cases, it's not a matter of saving some interest over the life of the loan, it's avoiding having a monthly payment that can't be met (temporarily) or losing tax-advantaged space.
If you're doing it for the explicit purpose of instead investing the difference in payments between the two terms in investment vehicles like stocks via tax-advantaged accounts, then that makes good sense. But if you're doing so because you want the option of lower monthly payments, you are very possibly buying too much house. I think it's very likely that most of those who plan on paying off a 30 year mortgage in 15 years don't come close to achieving this because they aren't disciplined enough to do so.

If you aren't buying too much house, then building your liquidity to the point that you could still make the higher payments of a 15 year mortgage is going to provide a significantly better than going with the 30 year's higher interest rate. If you get into a situation where you can't afford 15 year payments for more than six months or so, it's probably a good idea to sell the house anyway. I'm very much of the opinion that if you can only afford a house by going with a 30 year mortgage, you're buying (or have bought) too much house.
Last edited by willthrill81 on Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

oslocal
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Re: Mortgages

Post by oslocal » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:38 pm

I'm seeing 3.125% Jumbo 5/1 ARM with credits that offset all of the real closing cost as well as some of the prepaid interest. ~750 FICO.

It says 4.317% APR although I consider APR meaningless since it assumes I will allow my rate to reset and pay on this loan for 30 years. (Indexed rate is currently 5.0%)

nullbytes
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Re: Mortgages

Post by nullbytes » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:40 pm

I'm actually pricing out a re-fi that's 4% for a 30year fixed, excellent credit, 20% down. Gonna try and lock that sucker in this week.

delamer
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Re: Mortgages

Post by delamer » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:53 pm

My credit union — where we have a 10-year loan — shows a difference of 1.25 percentage points between the 30 year and 15 year rates.

I don’t know if I’d go with the 15 year if it was only 0.5 percentage points lower.

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willthrill81
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Re: Mortgages

Post by willthrill81 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:45 pm

delamer wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:53 pm
My credit union — where we have a 10-year loan — shows a difference of 1.25 percentage points between the 30 year and 15 year rates.

I don’t know if I’d go with the 15 year if it was only 0.5 percentage points lower.
The bigger question is whether you want a 30 year, 4.6% (today's average 30 year rate), negative, callable bond.

Interestingly, back in 2000, 30 year mortgage rates averaged about 8%. Since that time, paying down that mortgage would have provided a higher return than stocks or bonds (on the entire period). Will the same be said of the next 20 years? We'll see.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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unclescrooge
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Re: Mortgages

Post by unclescrooge » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:50 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:23 pm
unclescrooge wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:14 pm
hifromsocal wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:19 pm
Which would you rather do:

1. 15 year fixed at 3.375 (have decent amount of money left over each month, but not a lot)

2. 30 year at 3.875 ( but try to pay off mortgage earlier with extra payments, but have the flexibility of having great monthly cashflow)
The 30 year, but are those rates available?
According to SmartAsset, current 15 year rates are averaging 4.05%, and 30 year rates are averaging 4.61%.
Exactly. At those rates, and based on where we are in the business cycle, I'm much rather role the dice on a 5/1 ARM.

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unclescrooge
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Re: Mortgages

Post by unclescrooge » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:51 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:45 pm
delamer wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:53 pm
My credit union — where we have a 10-year loan — shows a difference of 1.25 percentage points between the 30 year and 15 year rates.

I don’t know if I’d go with the 15 year if it was only 0.5 percentage points lower.
The bigger question is whether you want a 30 year, 4.6% (today's average 30 year rate), negative, callable bond.

Interestingly, back in 2000, 30 year mortgage rates averaged about 8%. Since that time, paying down that mortgage would have provided a higher return than stocks or bonds (on the entire period). Will the same be said of the next 20 years? We'll see.
Weren't 3/1 ARMs hovering around 3-4% back then?

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willthrill81
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Re: Mortgages

Post by willthrill81 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:33 pm

unclescrooge wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:51 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:45 pm
delamer wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:53 pm
My credit union — where we have a 10-year loan — shows a difference of 1.25 percentage points between the 30 year and 15 year rates.

I don’t know if I’d go with the 15 year if it was only 0.5 percentage points lower.
The bigger question is whether you want a 30 year, 4.6% (today's average 30 year rate), negative, callable bond.

Interestingly, back in 2000, 30 year mortgage rates averaged about 8%. Since that time, paying down that mortgage would have provided a higher return than stocks or bonds (on the entire period). Will the same be said of the next 20 years? We'll see.
Weren't 3/1 ARMs hovering around 3-4% back then?
I doubt it. 1/1 ARMs were running around 7% in 2000.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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unclescrooge
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Re: Mortgages

Post by unclescrooge » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:35 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:33 pm
unclescrooge wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:51 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:45 pm
delamer wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:53 pm
My credit union — where we have a 10-year loan — shows a difference of 1.25 percentage points between the 30 year and 15 year rates.

I don’t know if I’d go with the 15 year if it was only 0.5 percentage points lower.
The bigger question is whether you want a 30 year, 4.6% (today's average 30 year rate), negative, callable bond.

Interestingly, back in 2000, 30 year mortgage rates averaged about 8%. Since that time, paying down that mortgage would have provided a higher return than stocks or bonds (on the entire period). Will the same be said of the next 20 years? We'll see.
Weren't 3/1 ARMs hovering around 3-4% back then?
I doubt it. 1/1 ARMs were running around 7% in 2000.
Based on your link it actually looks like 1/1s were below 6%.

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willthrill81
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Re: Mortgages

Post by willthrill81 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:42 pm

unclescrooge wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:35 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:33 pm
unclescrooge wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:51 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:45 pm
delamer wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:53 pm
My credit union — where we have a 10-year loan — shows a difference of 1.25 percentage points between the 30 year and 15 year rates.

I don’t know if I’d go with the 15 year if it was only 0.5 percentage points lower.
The bigger question is whether you want a 30 year, 4.6% (today's average 30 year rate), negative, callable bond.

Interestingly, back in 2000, 30 year mortgage rates averaged about 8%. Since that time, paying down that mortgage would have provided a higher return than stocks or bonds (on the entire period). Will the same be said of the next 20 years? We'll see.
Weren't 3/1 ARMs hovering around 3-4% back then?
I doubt it. 1/1 ARMs were running around 7% in 2000.
Based on your link it actually looks like 1/1s were below 6%.
That's not what I'm seeing. In the year 2000, 30 year rates were a little over 8%, 15 year rates were a little under 8%, and 1/1 ARMs were a little over 7%.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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unclescrooge
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Re: Mortgages

Post by unclescrooge » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:02 am

willthrill81 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:42 pm
unclescrooge wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:35 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:33 pm
unclescrooge wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:51 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:45 pm


The bigger question is whether you want a 30 year, 4.6% (today's average 30 year rate), negative, callable bond.

Interestingly, back in 2000, 30 year mortgage rates averaged about 8%. Since that time, paying down that mortgage would have provided a higher return than stocks or bonds (on the entire period). Will the same be said of the next 20 years? We'll see.
Weren't 3/1 ARMs hovering around 3-4% back then?
I doubt it. 1/1 ARMs were running around 7% in 2000.
Based on your link it actually looks like 1/1s were below 6%.
That's not what I'm seeing. In the year 2000, 30 year rates were a little over 8%, 15 year rates were a little under 8%, and 1/1 ARMs were a little over 7%.
Ah, I see my mistake. Thanks for clarifying.

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mrspock
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Re: Mortgages

Post by mrspock » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:20 am

Huh? What's a 30yr fixed? :D 5/1 ARM -- 3.125% 0 pts, bay area. Not as nice as my 2.75% 7/1 ARM I got in 2013 but not too shabby.... 12 years at < 3%.... yes please!

knowledge
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Re: Mortgages

Post by knowledge » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:20 am

I am actively in the market for a house and mortgage. My sense is that for non-agency loans, the 7/1 is the sweet spot. I've been quoted 3.25%, 0 points, 30% down. If I go with 20% down, I believe it may move up 1/8th of a point. Meantime, a conforming balance loan 7/1 is at least 4.0%.

I also have a buddy who refi'ed into a no-cost 3.0%, 7/1 back in Jan, but their situation is different: a mortgage balance of over $1M with a LTV sub-60% -> Bay Area for you.

The market as I see it: If you have the means to qualify for a high mortgage balance, folks are more than happy to give you generous terms.

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Fieldsy1024
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Re: Mortgages

Post by Fieldsy1024 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:33 am

I have a 30 year 3.25% interest. I'm a year and a half away from getting rid of PMI/MIP and I'm starting to think I'm gonna pay more off each month to possibly save a 1,000 dollars.

Isabelle77
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Re: Mortgages

Post by Isabelle77 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:54 pm

We're refinancing into a 30yr and locked in a 4.375% this week through Costco's program. 0 points, no appraisal fee, and $250 closing costs.

The 15yr we were quoted was 3.99%.

grettman
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Re: Mortgages

Post by grettman » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:12 pm

I know it’s the wrong thing to do mathematically but I’m paying off my 3.5% 30 yr. I have about 4 yrs left...

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willthrill81
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Re: Mortgages

Post by willthrill81 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:13 pm

grettman wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:12 pm
I know it’s the wrong thing to do mathematically but I’m paying off my 3.5% 30 yr. I have about 4 yrs left...
You will only 'know' that it's the right or wrong thing except in hindsight.

You won't find a guaranteed 3.5% after-tax return in too many places these days.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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Fieldsy1024
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Re: Mortgages

Post by Fieldsy1024 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:26 pm

Isabelle77 wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:54 pm
We're refinancing into a 30yr and locked in a 4.375% this week through Costco's program. 0 points, no appraisal fee, and $250 closing costs.

The 15yr we were quoted was 3.99%.
If you were iffy on 15 or 30 years, pay more principal. Even a small chunk helps. I chose to invest those dollars doing that to my 401k. I have 3.25%. PMI will be done in a year and 5 months.

JoeJohnson
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Re: Mortgages

Post by JoeJohnson » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:39 pm

Isabelle77 wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:54 pm
We're refinancing into a 30yr and locked in a 4.375% this week through Costco's program. 0 points, no appraisal fee, and $250 closing costs.

The 15yr we were quoted was 3.99%.
There are better deals available

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