Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

[HomerJ]

I'd jump too, for that kind of money.
- Yes, you'll be burning some bridges

Yeah, people who are telling you it's no big deal aren't looking at the "6 month" aspect of it.

Sure, normally a good boss will wish an employee well if they get an incredible offer like you're getting.

But, after only six months, he may not be as generous about it. He now has to find and train another person extremely soon after going through all that already with you.

The bridge will absolutely be burned... He didn't work with you for years... the main thing he will remember is that you bailed after six months.

[Traveler]

I would be honest. Boss, I like it here, but I can't turn down a 70k raise. Thanks for everything.

Been there, did that, then went back across the bridge I,thankfully, didn't burn.

I'm in my 2nd tour with the company I work for now. A lucrative offer came along from an old colleague (whom I left to take this job the first time) that was over a 50% increase in salary. I was honest with my boss, "Hey, I like it here, but this is an opportunity I can't pass up." The manager asked if they could counter, but then I told her how much more I was being offered and she knew she couldn't justify that to keep me. She understood that it was a great opportunity for me and my family.

Anyhow, I took great pains to leave in good terms and it's a good thing I did. 2.5 years into this new venture the company closed the division I went to work in and I got laid off.

I called the old boss and humbly and honestly explained that I had been laid off and would love to come back if there was a need. Fortunately for me, there was. I was thankful I had "run through the tape" when I worked out my two weeks the first time.

My first tour here was 3-1/4 years. I've been back for the same period of time now.

In summary, I think most people would't take it personally if you're just honest with them. Good luck.

Just curious if you had to take a pay cut to return to the old company once you were laid off from the second one that paid a lot?

[Fieldsy1024]

You and your boss are there to make money. If you give a nice heads up, anyone who judges you is in the wrong. Take any opportunity you have, be honest and if people are pissed, that's on them/makes you feel good and valued.

[simas]

You don't work with companies, you work with people , be upfront, be direct, be truthful. Always the best strategy. what goes around comes around

and if your super wonderful 200k job does not materialize or ends up being a job from hell, who knows , you may want to talk to these people again (or people they know, or people who know people they know - it is a VERY small world).

[sjl333]

All, thanks for the replies. Really appreciate it.

For the ones telling me to look at overall compensation (including benefits etc.).I can assure you, the benefits play no role in this.

I am going in as a W2 contractor, so I am basically still an "employee", just for the job shop. The job shop provides all benefits... maybe not as great as the company itself, but nevertheless, its more like a wash.

Also, I am single, highly mobile, no family or in any type of relationship. I can really leverage my age and time to get ahead.

If the work dries up at that specific company, I can easily hop over to another company. Like I mentioned in my previous message, the job market is very hot right now, and I can confidently say I would have very little difficulty finding a new job. I am in a highly technical job, and companies are always looking for competent technical people.

Also, I know how this game works because my dad did the same thing when he was my age. And he was very successfully in doing it. That is how I know what the road map is and what I need to do to get to the end goal.

Thanks again.

[Nathan Drake]

I don't fully understand - as a W2 contractor you don't get benefits and must pay 6.5% social security tax. Are you saying that the headhunting firm is providing that cost? Healthcare, paid time off, social security, unemployment insurance/disability, these are all large costs that you would then have to incur yourself. You also haven't mentioned any COL adjustments that need to be made (state income tax, increased COL, etc).

The job market right now is hot, which is recency bias. If the job market fails to be hot, then you will be the first to let go and it may be difficult finding a job. As I understand it, you would also not have unemployment.

The job W2 job doesn't seem to be that great of an increase over your current role, and much less security. I'd pass.

[sjl333]

I don't fully understand - as a W2 contractor you don't get benefits and must pay 6.5% social security tax. Are you saying that the headhunting firm is providing that cost? Healthcare, paid time off, social security, unemployment insurance/disability, these are all large costs that you would then have to incur yourself. You also haven't mentioned any COL adjustments that need to be made (state income tax, increased COL, etc).

The job market right now is hot, which is recency bias. If the job market fails to be hot, then you will be the first to let go and it may be difficult finding a job. As I understand it, you would also not have unemployment.

The job W2 job doesn't seem to be that great of an increase over your current role, and much less security. I'd pass.

This is all incorrect.

I do not need to pay 6.5% social security tax. job shop pays all of that.

Everything you stated is incorrect.

Job shop pays healthcare, PTO, SS, and all company benefits.

If you do not believe me, that is fine. There is no reason to lie about all of this.

My dad has been doing this for 20-30 years in the industry - and he has showed me his pay stubs and everything. So ya...anyhow, I do not need to explain myself on this matter any further.

[Nathan Drake]

I don't fully understand - as a W2 contractor you don't get benefits and must pay 6.5% social security tax. Are you saying that the headhunting firm is providing that cost? Healthcare, paid time off, social security, unemployment insurance/disability, these are all large costs that you would then have to incur yourself. You also haven't mentioned any COL adjustments that need to be made (state income tax, increased COL, etc).

The job market right now is hot, which is recency bias. If the job market fails to be hot, then you will be the first to let go and it may be difficult finding a job. As I understand it, you would also not have unemployment.

The job W2 job doesn't seem to be that great of an increase over your current role, and much less security. I'd pass.

This is all incorrect.

I do not need to pay 6.5% social security tax. job shop pays all of that.

Everything you stated is incorrect.

Job shop pays healthcare, PTO, SS, and all company benefits.

If you do not believe me, that is fine. There is no reason to lie about all of this.

My dad has been doing this for 20-30 years in the industry - and he has showed me his pay stubs and everything. So ya...anyhow, I do not need to explain myself on this matter any further.

It's not that I don't believe you. You just haven't given everyone all the facts to make an accurate comparison.

So you are getting paid $100/hour, and none of the aforementioned benefits come out of that hourly rate -- they are all in addition to your hourly rate? Please provide comparisons of current company vs. new W2 offer:

• How does the 401k Match, PTO, insurance costs (since this is typically not fully covered by an employer), all compare?

• Do you not receive any potential bonus and/or RSUs at your W2 job, what about your current job?

• Where is the location of the new job versus your current job?

There's also the downside of no potential upward mobility in a W2 role, you're just a hired hand and won't be given the best projects/assignments in a leadership role.

I work in the Aerospace Industry, am a few years older, make a similar income to your current job, but live in a low COL area. I've had potential offers in both California and Maryland, but refused them all because taxes and increased cost of living would more than make up the difference and I'd be able to save far less per year. On track to FIRE in my late 30s - technically already FI, but don't want to be lean FIRE, and don't want to stop working anytime soon. After working in the industry for so long I am valuing more the security, working relationships, and projects than simply trying to increase my income. There is a limit to how much you can be paid as a technical worker/manager and I'm probably approaching that without making the move to a far more political role, which doesn't interest me (due to lack of security).

You have to make apples to apples comparisons. Everything is relative and it's not just purely about the total $$$.

[dm200]

Seems to me that six months is too short a time to leave for more money.

[rich126]

Defense contractor here working for Mega Defense. I'm surprised after footing the bill for a clearance that they didn't have you sign a year or two non-compete. I'm guessing if you got it so quickly though, it's not a high level clearance. I'd make sure you understand everything you signed before you quit related to it though. My last big clearance came with a required 5 year non compete.

That is a different experience from me. The only things I’ve seen are:
1. Usually 12 months required after getting relocated
2. Some companies require repayment of education expenses if you leave within 12 months. This was for college classes.

I’ve never seen one for clearances and went through that once. Of course every company is different.

[MBJ0909]

Not in his industry but I work in the administration of a recruiting company. He is likely being hired as a W2 employee of the recruiting company and they are going to place him at their client's site. We do high level IT. We offer the 6 main holidays, maybe some PTO depending on the contract, access to a 401k after a year waiting period but no match. If you are at profitable client and we are making enough on you, we kick in some for your health insurance, otherwise you have access to our plans but pay the full monthly premium yourself. When the contract ends, if we have somewhere else for you to go then we will try and move you there, otherwise you are done. That is why his pay rate is jumping so high, he's leaving a permanent role for W2 contract work.

As others have said, my biggest concern would be if the security clearance is yours free and clear and you didn't sign any kind of non compete. If not then sounds like you are in a position to make some decent money hopping from contract to contract for awhile while you are young.

[mouth]

It's not that I don't believe you. You just haven't given everyone all the facts to make an accurate comparison.

So you are getting paid $100/hour, and none of the aforementioned benefits come out of that hourly rate -- they are all in addition to your hourly rate? Please provide comparisons of current company vs. new W2 offer:

• How does the 401k Match, PTO, insurance costs (since this is typically not fully covered by an employer), all compare?

• Do you not receive any potential bonus and/or RSUs at your W2 job, what about your current job?

• Where is the location of the new job versus your current job?

There's also the downside of no potential upward mobility in a W2 role, you're just a hired hand and won't be given the best projects/assignments in a leadership role.

I work in the Aerospace Industry, am a few years older, make a similar income to your current job, but live in a low COL area. I've had potential offers in both California and Maryland, but refused them all because taxes and increased cost of living would more than make up the difference and I'd be able to save far less per year. On track to FIRE in my late 30s - technically already FI, but don't want to be lean FIRE, and don't want to stop working anytime soon. After working in the industry for so long I am valuing more the security, working relationships, and projects than simply trying to increase my income. There is a limit to how much you can be paid as a technical worker/manager and I'm probably approaching that without making the move to a far more political role, which doesn't interest me (due to lack of security).

You have to make apples to apples comparisons. Everything is relative and it's not just purely about the total $$$.

I'm pretty sure you're confusing a 1099 independent contractor for a job/project based W2 employee; and both of those as compared to traditional W2 "career" employee. My firm does all three and I know for a fact that our W2 "project" employees get about 90% of the benefits of the "career" employees, and all employer taxes are paid because they are legally required for a W2 employee. The real benefit of the project W2 employees is that they have much lower overhead because they don't have the luxury of not billing while we wait for another contract, they don't all get company cell phones or laptops, they aren't required to work on proposals, they don't travel, they get a little less PTO, etc. All they do is bill. Their single metric is billable hours. But they are also still salaried; which I know is different than OP

If OP is taking a job that is contingent on a specific project, such as a government contract, and receiving a W2, then he/she is going to be getting some level of benefits and those employer-side taxes paid.

1099 independent contractors are of course a completely different game, with no benefits, and no employer-side taxes paid.

[miamivice]

I am going in as a W2 hourly contractor. The rates they are paying are $100/hr. Keep in mind, this is just base pay. If I work OT (at 1.5x), I'll be earning $150/hr. My salary range will probably be anywhere between $200K/yr to $300K/yr, depending on how much OT I work, which there is a lot of right now since the industry is booming.

You're making about $62.50/hr with benefits right now and are considering a bump to $100/hr without benefits (presumably).

Have you calculated the total compensation improvement? Depending on the structure you may actually be about the same position financially. Do you have to pay both sides of FICA (I'm guessing not as a W2 contractor). Do you have access to 401k for tax shelter purposes? Do you have to pay all of your healthcare? Do you have to move? If so, there's a COL adjustment. Can you negotiate for 1099 contracting with a slightly higher rate? Then you can qualify for a SEP IRA and can tax shelter a lot more (The lesser of $56k or 20% of your net income - since you'd be self employed). Will they allow overtime work? Is vacation paid? Any benefits? What are the terms for termination? How much will health insurance go up - or not?

These are questions that I'd be asking before I left a job with benefits.

Most importantly, factor in that contractors are the first to get da boot when budgets get tight - higher pay is the norm to compensate.

My number for someone to hire me contract (W2 or 1099) full time is 2x my currently hourly rate. I go a bit cheaper for my moonlighting services - mostly because folks don't want or need my really marketable skills when I'm working a few hours a week here and there.

This ^^^

I don't know what a W2 contractor is. Are you working for a placement agency, W2 to them, and they have a contract with this company? Then you're not working for the company, and they don't care anything about you - nor does the contracting company. And you have all the benefit issues raised above.

If you're a 1099, then you have more issues.

You know what a W2 contractor is. Have you ever heard of a temp agency in your town, where you sign up with them and they send you on short term assignments? Often they are typing or basic labor type jobs. You are a W2 employee for the temp agency who sends you on assignment.

The OP is doing that, except instead of menial work, he's an engineer. It's quite common in his field.

[Christine_NM]

Tell the truth, because most people are really bad liars. The boss will know you are holding something back.

If you've had a stressful job before, so bad you had to quit, why leave a good one for an unknown after only 6 months? Looks bad on your resume and the next job may not be as good an environment. Lots of money tends to mean lots of stress. Do you not expect significant raise at one year into the current job?

[moneywise3]

Your boss would be ok with it, no matter what you say. It is very routine for them to see employees turn in their notices.

[Cmnilz87]

W-2 hourly contractor??? Do you mean non exempt employee?

You can’t be a contractor and still get a w-2, would it not be a 1099 thrn?

[CaliJim]

I dunno. I kind a want more info before understanding if the grass if really greener. It seems your current company have more benefits and perhaps stability. At my company, large healthcare provider, we bring in contractors who are expendible. Don't underestimate the cost of healthcare, retirement and PTO.

and don't underestimate lost income if 'expndibility happens'....

[HomerJ]

Your boss would be ok with it, no matter what you say. It is very routine for them to see employees turn in their notices.

Not after 6 months.

And be careful with your resume, OP.

Don't leave too many jobs in a row after 6-12 months.

One or two, probably even 3, people will still take a chance on you. But you do it too many times without any long-term stints in between there, and it will make it harder to get a job.

It doesn't matter how good your skills are if you leave in 6 months, you end up being a net loss (or at best, at wash) to a group, a boss, or a company.

[dodecahedron]

W-2 hourly contractor??? Do you mean non exempt employee?

You can’t be a contractor and still get a w-2, would it not be a 1099 thrn?

OP will work as contract worker for company Z but will not be employee of Z. Instead OP will be W-2 employee of intermediary agent company Y, which has a contract relationship with Z.

OP will work at Z´s jobsite. Z will pay Y for OP´s services per the contractual agreement between Y and Z. Y will pay the OP as hourly W-2 employee for the work he does at Z.

From Z´s point of view, OP is a contract worker not an employee. OP will not qualify for any benefits that regular Z employees get. OP will qualify for benefits offered by intermediary company Y, whatever those happen to be.

OP will likely have less job security than regular employees of Z. Effectively, Z is leasing employees from Y. Contract employees give Z more control over workforce size without need to officially ¨lay off¨ workers or deal with unemployment, severance, etc.

My husband worked as regular employee at a large corporate research facility for a number of years. He mentioned that some of his coworkers were not employees of his company but rather contract workers hired through a third party contract arrangement. They had less status and permanence in the organization than regular employees did.

[eye.surgeon]

You think your boss doesn't know it's about money? He/she knows. Because it's almost always about money.

[dodecahedron]

You think your boss doesn't know it's about money? He/she knows. Because it's almost always about money.

Maybe that is true for some folks.

For others, particularly women (at least in my circle of acquaintances) and certainly for me, it can be about nonpecuniary priorities: e.g., work-life balance, being treated respectfully, having your efforts valued and your ideas constructively implemented by the organization, having supportive colleagues and superiors who share one´s values, being treated as a respected member of a team with a shared sense of mission.

I am an economist. I have thought a lot about my own priorities in life. I believe my life is far more meaningful and satisfying for me than other alternatives that have been offered to me.

[simas]

OP will work as contract worker for company Z but will not be employee of Z. Instead OP will be W-2 employee of intermediary agent company Y, which has a contract relationship with Z.

OP will work at Z´s jobsite. Z will pay Y for OP´s services per the contractual agreement between Y and Z. Y will pay the OP as hourly W-2 employee for the work he does at Z.

From Z´s point of view, OP is a contract worker not an employee. OP will not qualify for any benefits that regular Z employees get. OP will qualify for benefits offered by intermediary company Y, whatever those happen to be.

Yes, this is how it works. Also, you need to know well what happens during 'bench' time (if company Y does not have a project to place/bill you at company Z and elsewhere, will they pay you? for how long?). in my field (IT ), and my area (Chicago), W-2 contract is not uncommong however you only paid for billed, not for bench (and rate you get paid is higher than $100)

I would not trade 130k annual real job for $100/hour W-2 contract. too little upside, too much risk.

[cherijoh]

I am going in as a W2 hourly contractor. The rates they are paying are $100/hr. Keep in mind, this is just base pay. If I work OT (at 1.5x), I'll be earning $150/hr. My salary range will probably be anywhere between $200K/yr to $300K/yr, depending on how much OT I work, which there is a lot of right now since the industry is booming.

You're making about $62.50/hr with benefits right now and are considering a bump to $100/hr without benefits (presumably).

Have you calculated the total compensation improvement? Depending on the structure you may actually be about the same position financially. Do you have to pay both sides of FICA (I'm guessing not as a W2 contractor). Do you have access to 401k for tax shelter purposes? Do you have to pay all of your healthcare? Do you have to move? If so, there's a COL adjustment. Can you negotiate for 1099 contracting with a slightly higher rate? Then you can qualify for a SEP IRA and can tax shelter a lot more (The lesser of $56k or 20% of your net income - since you'd be self employed). Will they allow overtime work? Is vacation paid? Any benefits? What are the terms for termination? How much will health insurance go up - or not?

These are questions that I'd be asking before I left a job with benefits.

Most importantly, factor in that contractors are the first to get da boot when budgets get tight - higher pay is the norm to compensate.

My number for someone to hire me contract (W2 or 1099) full time is 2x my currently hourly rate. I go a bit cheaper for my moonlighting services - mostly because folks don't want or need my really marketable skills when I'm working a few hours a week here and there.

This ^^^

I don't know what a W2 contractor is. Are you working for a placement agency, W2 to them, and they have a contract with this company? Then you're not working for the company, and they don't care anything about you - nor does the contracting company. And you have all the benefit issues raised above.

If you're a 1099, then you have more issues.

I think you have nailed the "W-2 contractor". Larger companies don't want to negotiate with individual 1099 contractors so they find a go-between agency to hire the skills they need and vet the candidates. It also helps corporations not run afoul of the rules about who should be paying the "employer" part of the FICA taxes.

OP does need to calculate the "total compensation" before he will know whether he has a good deal at base pay. Likely this new job isn't nearly as good as he thinks it is.

Every industry is different, but I have a friend who went the contracting route as a business analyst in the banking industry. Where she works they tightly control how much overtime the contractors can work to control costs. She works with a mix of employees and contractors. (Of course, this may not be the case for a Gov't contractor or if everyone on the team is a contractor). For her, this was a feature (not a bug) since her previous FTE jobs made her exempt from overtime even though she was working 50+ hours per week. She preferred the regular schedule over the extra money. It sounds like OP is expecting to have as much overtime as he wants to take on. This may or may not be the case.

The other issue is that her preferred employer limits the length of time that an individual contractor can work. So after a 12-18 month contract, she either needs to find a contract elsewhere or take a break from employment.

[fourkids]

no time is too short to leave if it's a 50% raise like you are getting.
Congratulations.
You simply say they are giving you a 50%+ raise, and you can't turn it down.

I left once after 11 months for a 50% raise, and in hindsight, it was a great career move. They realized I was underpaid when they had to pay my replacement more. It took a couple months for them to get settled, but now we are on good terms (it's a small business community)

[midareff]

I had been long term in a position where I got along great with the report 2's going up several levels. I was head hunted and made a quite sweet offer to jump ship. I asked if I could think about it for a few days in deference to the length of time I had been in my present position and they agreed. I informed my report 2's I had been offered and when I had until to respond, and asked them if they had something they would like me to think about in the meanwhile. At 7:30 AM the next morning (I used to get in early) my report 2's report 2 showed up in my office to tell me I had been reclassified to a pay scale (with a pay match). I was 6 years from retirement at the time and stayed. Be honest with them.. you never know what they can or can't do, or when you might need them in the future.

[marti038]

I would be honest. Boss, I like it here, but I can't turn down a 70k raise. Thanks for everything.

Been there, did that, then went back across the bridge I,thankfully, didn't burn.

I'm in my 2nd tour with the company I work for now. A lucrative offer came along from an old colleague (whom I left to take this job the first time) that was over a 50% increase in salary. I was honest with my boss, "Hey, I like it here, but this is an opportunity I can't pass up." The manager asked if they could counter, but then I told her how much more I was being offered and she knew she couldn't justify that to keep me. She understood that it was a great opportunity for me and my family.

Anyhow, I took great pains to leave in good terms and it's a good thing I did. 2.5 years into this new venture the company closed the division I went to work in and I got laid off.

I called the old boss and humbly and honestly explained that I had been laid off and would love to come back if there was a need. Fortunately for me, there was. I was thankful I had "run through the tape" when I worked out my two weeks the first time.

My first tour here was 3-1/4 years. I've been back for the same period of time now.

In summary, I think most people would't take it personally if you're just honest with them. Good luck.

Just curious if you had to take a pay cut to return to the old company once you were laid off from the second one that paid a lot?

No. I actually came back in at 6% above where I was when I left. I was fortunate that they wanted me back (due to the fact they had an opening, not that I'm that bad to have around ).

[michaeljc70]

W-2 hourly contractor??? Do you mean non exempt employee?

You can’t be a contractor and still get a w-2, would it not be a 1099 thrn?

Technically, you are an employee. I've worked this way (and on a 1099) for many years. They call it a contractor because it typically involves a set amount of time (6 months, until a project is done or whatever) and is not permanent. You are also paid by the hour which is not typical for white collar employees.

[Wiggums]

I am going in as a W2 hourly contractor. The rates they are paying are $100/hr. Keep in mind, this is just base pay. If I work OT (at 1.5x), I'll be earning $150/hr. My salary range will probably be anywhere between $200K/yr to $300K/yr, depending on how much OT I work, which there is a lot of right now since the industry is booming.

You're making about $62.50/hr with benefits right now and are considering a bump to $100/hr without benefits (presumably).

Have you calculated the total compensation improvement? Depending on the structure you may actually be about the same position financially. Do you have to pay both sides of FICA (I'm guessing not as a W2 contractor). Do you have access to 401k for tax shelter purposes? Do you have to pay all of your healthcare? Do you have to move? If so, there's a COL adjustment. Can you negotiate for 1099 contracting with a slightly higher rate? Then you can qualify for a SEP IRA and can tax shelter a lot more (The lesser of $56k or 20% of your net income - since you'd be self employed). Will they allow overtime work? Is vacation paid? Any benefits? What are the terms for termination? How much will health insurance go up - or not?

These are questions that I'd be asking before I left a job with benefits.

Most importantly, factor in that contractors are the first to get da boot when budgets get tight - higher pay is the norm to compensate.

My number for someone to hire me contract (W2 or 1099) full time is 2x my currently hourly rate. I go a bit cheaper for my moonlighting services - mostly because folks don't want or need my really marketable skills when I'm working a few hours a week here and there.

You make a really good point. I turned down several jobs that paid more because of the loss of benefits, 401k, insurance, etc. my employment was super stable. Overtime gets old real fast when you rather be with family.

[iudiehard1]

Congrats on the new gig and the extra cash. I would also start out the chat by acknowledging that “After 6 months, I recognize I am leaving you guys in a rough spot and committed to do anything I can to help transition the position including staying on longer if it will help.” Like any good Manager, he won’t take you up on it but it’s a class move all the same.

Some free advice on working as a W-2 employee. It will be made clear to you that you are “not a real employee.” Even in the best cultures, separate is never equal. Best of luck