Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

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sjl333
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Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by sjl333 »

Hello All,

Just need some advice on how to have a conversation with the boss when I turn in my two week notice?

Just for context, I have only been in my job for 6 months. I really like this company, culture, type of work. The only flaw is, I can be making more money elsewhere. Since $$ talks, I will be making a jump in the near term future. We are talking about ($130K --> $200K), which is obviously not an insignificant amount.

I just had a performance review, and have received excellent ratings. My boss said everyone was impressed with my skillsets, knowledge, and what I bring to the table. I get along with everybody from co-workers to bosses. I definitely wouldn't mind staying here longer, but like i mentioned before, $$ talks.

Before this job, I was making a bit more money (~ 150K) but the company culture and type of work was horrendous. I was desperate to leave. My health was also deteriorating due to the fatigue and mental stress I was going through at the previous company.

This new company is at a lower COL state, and since I was desperate to leave, I took a pay cut to move there.

I should also add a very important point, the only reason why I took a pay-cut was because this new company is a defense contractor, and they sponsored my security clearance. Now that I have my clearance, other defense contractors are salivating for people with my type of skillset, because I have a very niche skillset that is in very high demand at the moment. I'm trying to maximize as much as I can during this gravy train - which is why I plan to make another move in the near term future (already receiving offers and such).

Anyhow, with all that being said, how should I approach this with my boss? I am trying not to burn this bridge because I truly like the people and the work here.

Should I just tell the boss the truth? "Hey boss, sorry, I really liked working here, but got an offer that I couldn't refuse, my sincere apologies".

Or should I just go with the "Decided to pursue other opportunities".

I believe either way, no matter what I say, I will be burning this bridge and will probably never be allowed to work at that company again. I am just trying to figure out if there is a way I can go about this w/o burning the bridge.

Thanks in advance.
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8foot7
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by 8foot7 »

I would be honest. Boss, I like it here, but I can't turn down a 70k raise. Thanks for everything.
TallBoy29er
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by TallBoy29er »

You should have gone to your boss before you accepted the new offer. That would have been the proper thing to do. And it would have given her a chance to respond. Even if the answer came back that there was nothing that could come close to your new offer, it is a courtesy to provide the opportunity

As is, you've now turned this into a resignation discussion. Doesn't matter a whole lot what you say, as long as you are polite and don't burn bridges.
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8foot7
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by 8foot7 »

TallBoy29er wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:59 pm You should have gone to your boss before you accepted the new offer. That would have been the proper thing to do. And it would have given her a chance to respond. Even if the answer came back that there was nothing that could come close to your new offer, it is a courtesy to provide the opportunity

As is, you've now turned this into a resignation discussion. Doesn't matter a whole lot what you say, as long as you are polite and don't burn bridges.
I disagree. Many bosses resent being put into a position where they have to decide whether to counteroffer and then how much political capital to burn to get an offer that you then might not even accept. Counteroffers are generally a lose-lose proposition for a manager, an admission you couldn't keep your team happy enough they went looking for more money and also an exercise in spending your built-up organizational goodwill trying to get out-of-band money squeezed out of a budget--and then if it doesn't work you look like a fool because you couldn't even persuade your direct with more money.

The proper thing to do is exactly what OP is doing, not invite the counteroffer and simply move on.
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by Windylotus »

TallBoy29er wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:59 pm You should have gone to your boss before you accepted the new offer. That would have been the proper thing to do. And it would have given her a chance to respond. Even if the answer came back that there was nothing that could come close to your new offer, it is a courtesy to provide the opportunity

As is, you've now turned this into a resignation discussion. Doesn't matter a whole lot what you say, as long as you are polite and don't burn bridges.
OP didn't say they accepted an offer yet, just receiving offers. (unless I misunderstood their post?)
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BarbaricYawp
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by BarbaricYawp »

Any chance they'd claw back the cost of getting you the security clearance? If so, you may want to downplay the raise and talk more about the kind of work/location you are switching to.
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Rus In Urbe
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by Rus In Urbe »

As is said: You meet the same people coming back down as you do going up.

I'm of the old-fashioned school. You've been treated well. If I were you, I'd have a heart-to-heart with the boss as soon as possible. Anyone sensible knows you have to take a higher-paying job if the jump is that big; perhaps a counter-offer will come. If not, perhaps you'll be hiring that boss later. Or s/he will hire you back. You never know where you are going to run into the person again.

I'd lay the cards on the table. Face up. And with gratitude to the boss who brought you to your current company.

And----after you leave, keep in touch.

That's always worked for me. Congratulations and good luck on the move! :)
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bengal22
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by bengal22 »

You can generally not go wrong by telling the truth. I would not say anything until you have accepted the offer. Feel bad for your future employer if you are already looking before you even started.
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marti038
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by marti038 »

8foot7 wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:56 pm I would be honest. Boss, I like it here, but I can't turn down a 70k raise. Thanks for everything.
Been there, did that, then went back across the bridge I,thankfully, didn't burn.

I'm in my 2nd tour with the company I work for now. A lucrative offer came along from an old colleague (whom I left to take this job the first time) that was over a 50% increase in salary. I was honest with my boss, "Hey, I like it here, but this is an opportunity I can't pass up." The manager asked if they could counter, but then I told her how much more I was being offered and she knew she couldn't justify that to keep me. She understood that it was a great opportunity for me and my family.

Anyhow, I took great pains to leave in good terms and it's a good thing I did. 2.5 years into this new venture the company closed the division I went to work in and I got laid off.

I called the old boss and humbly and honestly explained that I had been laid off and would love to come back if there was a need. Fortunately for me, there was. I was thankful I had "run through the tape" when I worked out my two weeks the first time.

My first tour here was 3-1/4 years. I've been back for the same period of time now.

In summary, I think most people would't take it personally if you're just honest with them. Good luck.
delamer
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by delamer »

I agree with your first approach — “Thanks for your support, but I got an offer I can’t refuse.”

The company aside you never know where or when you’ll run into your boss again. Better to be reasonably candid and not burn the personal bridge.

I would not mention the actual salary.

If their current business model depends on severely underpaying for your skill set then they’ll see more short-timers and maybe figure it out.
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by Thegame14 »

8foot7 wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:56 pm I would be honest. Boss, I like it here, but I can't turn down a 70k raise. Thanks for everything.
+1, then it isn't personel, it is just business, and if they want to match they can do so, it isn't burning bridges to take care of your family.
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by MikeG62 »

8foot7 wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:56 pm I would be honest. Boss, I like it here, but I can't turn down a 70k raise. Thanks for everything.
I second this. After all, it's greater than 50% increase.

Having said that, maybe they can close some of the gap. And given you seem very happy there, is there a number that gets you to stay? You should think about that before going in for the discussion. How do benefits compare? Also, does the new offer require another move - if so who is paying for that? Lower cost of living, similar or higher cost than where you are living now. That should factor into the decision as well.

Lastly, don't forget about your last job. Money does not always equate with happiness. Are you are certain as you can be that you are not walking into another miserable situation?

Good luck whatever you end up doing.
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jacksonm
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by jacksonm »

It's a free country and you don't have any obligation to tell your boss why you are leaving. I've been asked the same question and always thought it wasn't a good idea to answer, except in vague terms. What if you ever need to return to the same job for some reason but your boss didn't like the reason you gave for leaving?
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by Stormbringer »

I had a similar thing happen to me four years out of college. I was making $42K (in 1995) as a computer programmer for a small software company, and they paid for me to take the tests to get certified in some Microsoft technologies. Within a few months, I got a job offer for $60K, which was a 40% pay increase.

The owner of the company tried to lay a guilt trip on me about loyalty, but it seemed disingenuous because he had recently signed a deal to sell the company for tens of millions of dollars, creating tons of uncertainty for everyone.

I think being up-front about the reason for leaving is the right thing to do. Any reasonable person understands someone leaving for a huge raise. And if they don't, then they are the one being unreasonable.
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by JBTX »

8foot7 wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:02 pm
TallBoy29er wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:59 pm You should have gone to your boss before you accepted the new offer. That would have been the proper thing to do. And it would have given her a chance to respond. Even if the answer came back that there was nothing that could come close to your new offer, it is a courtesy to provide the opportunity

As is, you've now turned this into a resignation discussion. Doesn't matter a whole lot what you say, as long as you are polite and don't burn bridges.
I disagree. Many bosses resent being put into a position where they have to decide whether to counteroffer and then how much political capital to burn to get an offer that you then might not even accept. Counteroffers are generally a lose-lose proposition for a manager, an admission you couldn't keep your team happy enough they went looking for more money and also an exercise in spending your built-up organizational goodwill trying to get out-of-band money squeezed out of a budget--and then if it doesn't work you look like a fool because you couldn't even persuade your direct with more money.

The proper thing to do is exactly what OP is doing, not invite the counteroffer and simply move on.
Agree with you. His company won't match a $70k raise. I'd just be honest with boss. There is a decent chance your boss will half jokingly and half not ask you if there are additional opportunities at your new company. No rational person/boss will resent an employee leaving for a 50%+ raise.
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FlyAF
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by FlyAF »

Defense contractor here working for Mega Defense. I'm surprised after footing the bill for a clearance that they didn't have you sign a year or two non-compete. I'm guessing if you got it so quickly though, it's not a high level clearance. I'd make sure you understand everything you signed before you quit related to it though. My last big clearance came with a required 5 year non compete.
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

MikeG62 wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:40 pm
8foot7 wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:56 pm I would be honest. Boss, I like it here, but I can't turn down a 70k raise. Thanks for everything.
I second this. After all, it's greater than 50% increase.

Having said that, maybe they can close some of the gap. And given you seem very happy there, is there a number that gets you to stay? You should think about that before going in for the discussion. How do benefits compare? Also, does the new offer require another move - if so who is paying for that? Lower cost of living, similar or higher cost than where you are living now. That should factor into the decision as well.

Lastly, don't forget about your last job. Money does not always equate with happiness. Are you are certain as you can be that you are not walking into another miserable situation?

Good luck whatever you end up doing.
+3. You have received an offer that you can not refuse. I might be making an assumption on my part, but for that kind of a raise, you'll likely be working for it. Not many companies are tossing out $70K raises unless the company you are at is severely underpaying vs. the market and/or you are picking up much more responsibility. No free lunch. However, that said, it's a plus to pick up more responsibility if it leads to greater opportunities down the road. Good Luck in whatever you choose.
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sjl333
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by sjl333 »

Thanks everybody for the replies.

I'll go ahead and just be up front with them.

Also, to answer some of the questions:

1) I am actually getting paid above market value relative to my years of experience. 150K+ salary for people in my industry, you need 15-20 years minimum experience. I was getting paid 150K+ after just 5 years of experience. I currently have 7 years of experience, which is extremely low compared to most in this field. Most people in this field have minimum 20+ years.

2) Not to brag or sound arrogant, but I have worked extremely hard to get to this position. Gave up a lot of weekends studying, pursued my masters while working, put in a lot of OT at work, etc. I also started learning this field at a very early age, since my dad is in the same field. He trained me ever since I was a kid, which is how I have been able to rise up the ranks extremely fast when I started working after I graduated college.

3) I am not going in at my next job opportunity as a permanent employee. I am going in as a W2 hourly contractor. The rates they are paying are $100/hr. Keep in mind, this is just base pay. If I work OT (at 1.5x), I'll be earning $150/hr. My salary range will probably be anywhere between $200K/yr to $300K/yr, depending on how much OT I work, which there is a lot of right now since the industry is booming.

4) This field won't be going anywhere anytime soon, I foresee it booming for the next decade.

5) I plan to hustle as much as possible (I am 29 y/o), work as much as I can, save, and hopefully retire in my 40's / 50's.

Thanks again everyone.
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by Doom&Gloom »

What explanation would be better received by the boss or make you feel any better?

The truth seems to be the best route here--including a sincere expression of gratitude judging from your OP.
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by miamivice »

Yes, it's fine to tell your boss the truth. Based on the description of what you do and the reason for the pay bump, your boss will readily understand that going on contract work instead of full time employment will result in a pay boost at the expense of having consistent work. That is the trade off you are making.

He will not bump your salary in your full time employment to match that which you would get as a hired gun. But you know that already.
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by awval999 »

"Boss, I really enjoy working here, the team, the work, and the leadership is great. I have recently received a job offer, which is a significant increase in compensation, which I cannot refuse. At the end of the day, I need to support my family, so today I offer my resignation. Thank you so much for the opportunity for working here."
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by badger42 »

awval999 wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:17 pm "Boss, I really enjoy working here, the team, the work, and the leadership is great. I have recently received a job offer, which is a significant increase in compensation, which I cannot refuse. At the end of the day, I need to support my family, so today I offer my resignation. Thank you so much for the opportunity for working here."
Exactly this. Been there, used almost exactly those words, and no big deal. Still friendly with the former boss. People actually do understand that you work to support your family. In this case total comp was a >50% boost, matching wasn't even plausible.
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alec
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by alec »

badger42 wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:21 pm
awval999 wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:17 pm "Boss, I really enjoy working here, the team, the work, and the leadership is great. I have recently received a job offer, which is a significant increase in compensation, which I cannot refuse. At the end of the day, I need to support my family, so today I offer my resignation. Thank you so much for the opportunity for working here."
Exactly this. Been there, used almost exactly those words, and no big deal. Still friendly with the former boss. People actually do understand that you work to support your family. In this case total comp was a >50% boost, matching wasn't even plausible.
:thumbsup Had this happen to me (as a boss). Totally fine with it. If your boss is an a**hole about it, then you don't want to work for him.
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by Jags4186 »

Unless your boss is an owner, he is working a job for money just as you are. Chances are if he were offered a ~50% raise he’d be out of there as well. I don’t see any reason to lie “really like working here and for you, but I got a great offer and I’ve decided to accept it. thanks for everything.”

My current boss has already broached the topic to me and others on my team by saying “our goal is for you to either grow here or get an offer so great somewhere else we can’t match it.” One of the best things about my current job—they are totally understanding of the real world.
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by tindel »

sjl333 wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:08 pm I am going in as a W2 hourly contractor. The rates they are paying are $100/hr. Keep in mind, this is just base pay. If I work OT (at 1.5x), I'll be earning $150/hr. My salary range will probably be anywhere between $200K/yr to $300K/yr, depending on how much OT I work, which there is a lot of right now since the industry is booming.
You're making about $62.50/hr with benefits right now and are considering a bump to $100/hr without benefits (presumably).

Have you calculated the total compensation improvement? Depending on the structure you may actually be about the same position financially. Do you have to pay both sides of FICA (I'm guessing not as a W2 contractor). Do you have access to 401k for tax shelter purposes? Do you have to pay all of your healthcare? Do you have to move? If so, there's a COL adjustment. Can you negotiate for 1099 contracting with a slightly higher rate? Then you can qualify for a SEP IRA and can tax shelter a lot more (The lesser of $56k or 20% of your net income - since you'd be self employed). Will they allow overtime work? Is vacation paid? Any benefits? What are the terms for termination? How much will health insurance go up - or not?

These are questions that I'd be asking before I left a job with benefits.

Most importantly, factor in that contractors are the first to get da boot when budgets get tight - higher pay is the norm to compensate.

My number for someone to hire me contract (W2 or 1099) full time is 2x my currently hourly rate. I go a bit cheaper for my moonlighting services - mostly because folks don't want or need my really marketable skills when I'm working a few hours a week here and there.
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by jabberwockOG »

8foot7 wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:56 pm I would be honest. Boss, I like it here, but I can't turn down a 70k raise. Thanks for everything.
100% agree. Be very gracious about it. Thank your boss and be sure to privately and publicly express your gratitude for their mentoring and the opportunity to learn from them working on their team. Never ever burn a bridge or a good working business relationship. They can be critical to success in the future.
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by averagedude »

I use to be a supervisor, and if an employee was leaving and he told me that he enjoyed working with our company, but was going elsewhere for significant more money, i would harbor no ill feeling and would congratulate him for the better opportunity that awaits him/her. I feel most employers would feel the same way.
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by staythecourse »

Does it matter? You were on the job for 6 months. No matter what you say they won't remember you after 1 month when you replacement begins to do your job.

Besides, it isn't like you are the first person to ever leave your job. The no. 1 reason outside of not liking your boss is money. So I doubt he/ she will wonder or care why you are leaving.

Good luck.
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by AlphaLess »

Capitalism is a two way street.

But also it takes some skills to play it well.

When you have an offer at hand, performance evals have been done, bonuses have been paid, and you have nothing to lose, that's the time to approach your boss or whoever.

But it is also important to think of two things:
- what would it take for you to stay in the current position?
- how you are going to handle this in the future (whether you stay or go).

I say this because there is some fair value for your pay (given your skill, security clearance, etc), and eventually, you will reach that level.
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by AlphaLess »

averagedude wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:12 pm I use to be a supervisor, and if an employee was leaving and he told me that he enjoyed working with our company, but was going elsewhere for significant more money, i would harbor no ill feeling and would congratulate him for the better opportunity that awaits him/her. I feel most employers would feel the same way.
Great!
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by WannabeAgAlum »

Employee: "I quit because [insert Charlie Brown teacher voice]...."

Boss's thoughts: Dang. Poached again...

Boss: "Well, we have really enjoyed working with you and ...."
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by IMO »

As someone said, make sure you compare apples to apples when it comes a job with benefits vs. without benefits and also factoring other factors such as cost of living/housing/state income taxes, and perhaps more importantly other quality of life issues (such as commute times, location of family/friends and location of recreational opportunities).

Jumping for money is just one factor in life and word of advice to a 29 yr old: There is more to life than money.

But, if all signs point to leaving, then do the right thing. When someone is good to you, they deserve a honest answer. You never know about the next job, you list a large salary range, maybe that will happen, maybe it won't. Maybe the job will suck. Don't burn bridges, you may need that job reference in the future. Many a person has regretting leaving a job for the another that didn't work out.

I'd even go farther to say if you're leaving, try to give more than 2 weeks notice and help them in the transition (since you like your employer). 2 weeks notice, to me covers a pretty minimal level job notice like you're quitting Starbuck's or something. With that said, it seems to be the common thing on this site to just up and leave a job with no/minimal notice that has been good to you. Changing times I suppose.
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HomerJ
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by HomerJ »

sjl333 wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:53 pmBefore this job, I was making a bit more money (~ 150K) but the company culture and type of work was horrendous. I was desperate to leave. My health was also deteriorating due to the fatigue and mental stress I was going through at the previous company.
Are you sure this new company will be good for you?

Especially since you hope to work overtime?
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by harrychan »

I dunno. I kind a want more info before understanding if the grass if really greener. It seems your current company have more benefits and perhaps stability. At my company, large healthcare provider, we bring in contractors who are expendible. Don't underestimate the cost of healthcare, retirement and PTO.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
seppatown
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by seppatown »

Based on the information provided - that you've only been at the job for 6mo, were sponsored for security clearance, and perform in a hot, niche role - I think you know how this plays out. Actions speak louder than words. You've treated the position as a stepping stone and are putting your supervisor in a poor position. The "ideal" employee would be one who performs as you have described and is focused on the role - not job hunting from day 1.

The best option I can see for you is to offer more than a two-weeks notice. Your boss may or may not take it, but it at least sends the message that you are willing to help ease the transition. That, or guarantee that you'll finish whatever project you were last working on.

No matter what, he or she isn't going to buy or particularly care about your feelings of gratitude. It's disingenuous. I would just leave it at "I've decided to pursue other opportunities" and lay your cards out straight. Your boss and your team are going to recognize you as a hustler and job-climber but so be it. High performers in high-demand fields can swing it. Your colleagues will get over it faster than your boss.

Since you mentioned you already plan on making a move after your next job, I would aim for the one-year mark next time.
carol-brennan
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by carol-brennan »

I believe the truth is usually the best approach in all matters, including this one.
UpperNwGuy
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by UpperNwGuy »

During my working career I had eleven jobs. As a matter of courtesy I never left a job before working a full year.

Whether you mention it or not, your current boss will immediately see the connection between the security clearance that he paid for and your decision to leave. I'm surprised they didn't require you to sign some kind of repayment agreement before they spent the money.
FireSekr
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by FireSekr »

Jags4186 wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:41 pm Unless your boss is an owner, he is working a job for money just as you are. Chances are if he were offered a ~50% raise he’d be out of there as well. I don’t see any reason to lie “really like working here and for you, but I got a great offer and I’ve decided to accept it. thanks for everything.”

My current boss has already broached the topic to me and others on my team by saying “our goal is for you to either grow here or get an offer so great somewhere else we can’t match it.” One of the best things about my current job—they are totally understanding of the real world.
Culture at my company is similar. Our management is very transparent about what they can and can’t do, and expect us to be honest about what we want to get out of our career. I have been straightforward with my boss about the comp growth I’m looking for and he has been working with me to adjust my responsibilities to justify that level.

On one or two occasions we discussed the pros and cons of opportunities I had outside of my company and he gave me really sound objective advice, which made me respect him and my company even more, and a good part of the reason I chose to stay.

Be honest, they will understand. Although I would have brought this to them before accepting the other offer. Even if they couldn’t have matched the offer, they may have Increased your pay and worked out an accelerated promotion path to get you up to the higher pay sooner than later.
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sunny_socal
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by sunny_socal »

I'd jump too, for that kind of money.
- Yes, you'll be burning some bridges
- Be as honest and respectful as possible, this will minimize the damage
bling
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by bling »

it's a small world. make every effort to build bridges when you're leaving. just be honest and tell them you have a better opportunity. don't ask for a counter offer and don't take it either.

if you're feeling particularly bad about taking advantage of them for the sponsorship, offer to pay it back.

anywho, i'd also reiterate what others have mentioned. you have to calculate total compensation, benefits included. $200k sounds a lot better than $130k, but you need to factor in how much you'll be paying out of pocket for things like health insurance.
fru-gal
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by fru-gal »

I was thinking tell the truth politely and leave, then I saw that the new job was just a contractor position. I would not leave a full time job for a contractor position unless the current company was in a shaky financial position or I thought for some reason that the current job would disappear.

Ditto on the cost of health insurance. There's a reason contractors are paid more, because more comes out of their pockets.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by RickBoglehead »

tindel wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:05 pm
sjl333 wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:08 pm I am going in as a W2 hourly contractor. The rates they are paying are $100/hr. Keep in mind, this is just base pay. If I work OT (at 1.5x), I'll be earning $150/hr. My salary range will probably be anywhere between $200K/yr to $300K/yr, depending on how much OT I work, which there is a lot of right now since the industry is booming.
You're making about $62.50/hr with benefits right now and are considering a bump to $100/hr without benefits (presumably).

Have you calculated the total compensation improvement? Depending on the structure you may actually be about the same position financially. Do you have to pay both sides of FICA (I'm guessing not as a W2 contractor). Do you have access to 401k for tax shelter purposes? Do you have to pay all of your healthcare? Do you have to move? If so, there's a COL adjustment. Can you negotiate for 1099 contracting with a slightly higher rate? Then you can qualify for a SEP IRA and can tax shelter a lot more (The lesser of $56k or 20% of your net income - since you'd be self employed). Will they allow overtime work? Is vacation paid? Any benefits? What are the terms for termination? How much will health insurance go up - or not?

These are questions that I'd be asking before I left a job with benefits.

Most importantly, factor in that contractors are the first to get da boot when budgets get tight - higher pay is the norm to compensate.

My number for someone to hire me contract (W2 or 1099) full time is 2x my currently hourly rate. I go a bit cheaper for my moonlighting services - mostly because folks don't want or need my really marketable skills when I'm working a few hours a week here and there.
This ^^^

I don't know what a W2 contractor is. Are you working for a placement agency, W2 to them, and they have a contract with this company? Then you're not working for the company, and they don't care anything about you - nor does the contracting company. And you have all the benefit issues raised above.

If you're a 1099, then you have more issues.
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MathIsMyWayr
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by MathIsMyWayr »

You've been with the current employer for only 6 months. It cost the company a significant expense for sponsoring your security clearance. Finally you obtained a security clearance and are leaving. To a bystander, the whole thing sounds like carefully planned as a short temporary stay between a job transition and for a clearance. I am afraid the bridge was already burned.
mouth
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by mouth »

averagedude wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:12 pm I use to be a supervisor, and if an employee was leaving and he told me that he enjoyed working with our company, but was going elsewhere for significant more money, i would harbor no ill feeling and would congratulate him for the better opportunity that awaits him/her. I feel most employers would feel the same way.
^^^ This ^^^

Because the alternative should make anyone wonder if that is a leader / employer they want to stay with. If I saw leadership around me getting salty when someone leaves for their own best interest, and that person "does us right" with regards to notice, documentation, and knowledge transfer, I would seriously question if I wanted to stay there.

We are at 4% unemployment, 3% in my region, even lower for highly cleared individuals, and tons of open positions. Anyone not expecting workforce churn is a fool and anyone not making moves to stem the flow of their most valuable employees is gonna have a bad time. Especially in professional technical services where it sounds like OP works.

One big challenge we have right now in the government contracting world is bill rates have yet to go thru a churn cycle to afford the salaries we need to pay for quality talent; we're losing to non-gov employers left and right more so than 2014-2017. I suspect the next 2 years will see some incumbent churn as all the contractors are forced to increase their proposal rates just to be profitable and some might push it too far hoping to win as the incumbent on best-value contracts. Lowest-price-technically-acceptable is going to be a bloodbath as will firm-fixed-price!!!.

My firm made a calculated decision this past performance cycle re: compensation and it isn't paying off for them other than we're still profitable on some of our current contracts; but the employee churn is killing me and clients are noticing :O We'll see what this next performance cycle looks like. If they don't have a plan for some targeted compensation improvement, via bonus and/or base, they are gonna have a bad time. And as a front line manager of the people that are going to bolt leaving me holding the bag, the only people I'll be mad at are the owners.
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8foot7
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by 8foot7 »

mouth wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:35 am
averagedude wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:12 pm I use to be a supervisor, and if an employee was leaving and he told me that he enjoyed working with our company, but was going elsewhere for significant more money, i would harbor no ill feeling and would congratulate him for the better opportunity that awaits him/her. I feel most employers would feel the same way.
^^^ This ^^^

Because the alternative should make anyone wonder if that is a leader / employer they want to stay with. If I saw leadership around me getting salty when someone leaves for their own best interest, and that person "does us right" with regards to notice, documentation, and knowledge transfer, I would seriously question if I wanted to stay there.

We are at 4% unemployment, 3% in my region, even lower for highly cleared individuals, and tons of open positions. Anyone not expecting workforce churn is a fool and anyone not making moves to stem the flow of their most valuable employees is gonna have a bad time. Especially in professional technical services where it sounds like OP works.

One big challenge we have right now in the government contracting world is bill rates have yet to go thru a churn cycle to afford the salaries we need to pay for quality talent; we're losing to non-gov employers left and right more so than 2014-2017. I suspect the next 2 years will see some incumbent churn as all the contractors are forced to increase their proposal rates just to be profitable and some might push it too far hoping to win as the incumbent on best-value contracts. Lowest-price-technically-acceptable is going to be a bloodbath as will firm-fixed-price!!!.

My firm made a calculated decision this past performance cycle re: compensation and it isn't paying off for them other than we're still profitable on some of our current contracts; but the employee churn is killing me and clients are noticing :O We'll see what this next performance cycle looks like. If they don't have a plan for some targeted compensation improvement, via bonus and/or base, they are gonna have a bad time. And as a front line manager of the people that are going to bolt leaving me holding the bag, the only people I'll be mad at are the owners.
You sound like a manager I would want to work for - aware of the business, aware of the environment, looking after his best folks.
pasadena
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by pasadena »

I would tell him, yes, as others said to the tune of "Boss, I really love it here, the company, the job, the people, but I can't justify letting a $70k raise pass".

I did that a few years ago - when I was offered a job and visa to the US (Los Angeles, no less), 3 months after starting a new job. I loved it there but there was no way I could let that opportunity go. I went to see my boss after I accepted the offer. I was really upset and hated myself for doing this to them (it was a very small and new location of a mid-sized company), but he understood and wished me luck. I could have waited until my visa came, but I had just ordered my company car and there was still time to cancel it. I was upfront, told them to cancel the order, and asked to stay until my visa came through (which, at that time, I didn't really know how long that would take). I left 3 months later in great terms, and I'm still in touch with him on LinkedIn. He told me he'd happily take me back if I ever came back home.
mouth
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by mouth »

8foot7 wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:42 am You sound like a manager I would want to work for - aware of the business, aware of the environment, looking after his best folks.
haha thanks. Honestly the only thing keeping me from polishing up my own linkedIN profile and posting to clearedjobs is I love my client and I love my Senior Manager and Director. If it weren't for them I'd be trolling for the compensation I know my resume can get me. I run my project's finances so I know our fully-burdened rates, wrap rates, and bill rates.

Oh yeah, I'm also basically FIRE the moment I move to my LCOL final destination. So work-life balance and a good work environment is worth several thousand in lost compensation. My firm is just lucky I get a military pension and very low-cost healthcare (which means they over estimate my personal wrap-rate when they use a generic rate).
EFF_fan81
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by EFF_fan81 »

I am a serial job hopper -- not even about money, I just get bored unless I move up / around -- but I like to work 3-5 years in a certain position / role. I feel that's the minimum time in a complex, knowledge-economy job to pick up all the ins and outs, the corporate dynamic, the technical challenges, and figure out ways to add value so that when you leave you've convinced virtually everyone that you added a lot of value and they were sorry to see you go. Then, they become part of your larger network and long-term cheerleaders.

I would be sad to see an employee with 2+ years of experience leave, but I'd understand. I'd probably be miffed if someone left after six months, because it's time consuming to hire, train and replace someone. So you are basically a net loss to your employer because of the hassle you are causing them.

Also, $200k as an hourly contractor without benefits is not the same as $200k as a salaried employee. Benefits are surprisingly expensive, and I feel the hourly contractor types are the first to go if projects dry up. So I'm not sure you are getting the huge raise you think you are.

Also, money is not all that matters. I took a paycut both times I left my jobs. (Biglaw --> smaller law firm --> gov't). Whether the first paycut was worth it is debatable (I was promised work-life balance but the reality is if you get a lot done the work just seems to find you) but the second one has been worth every penny simply because I do more interesting work at a higher level -- I have the ability to direct strategy here. I work with our finance team to design the game plan and then the outside law firms we hire execute the strategy. I think I can monetize this experience in the future, but even if I can't it's honestly just been interesting and I'm learning a ton and rarely bored and to me that counts for an awful lot even just by itself.

It sounds like you are well liked at your current job, they sponsored your clearances, etc. Will they give you increased work responsibility? Raises down the line? Is the new role more complex work, more visible in your field or is it just the same stuff for a bigger check? Could you ask for a raise based on the clearance and your current performance without even mentioning the other offer? Could you wait another six months or year and then get that new job, or maybe something even better again?

Don't just obsessively focus on one number. Think of your long-term goals and career strategy. Think of which job would get you further in the long run. Think of whether you could strengthen your network by leaving your current place on a good note rather than a strained one. Think about which would just be more interesting / fun.
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

tindel wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:05 pm
sjl333 wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:08 pm I am going in as a W2 hourly contractor. The rates they are paying are $100/hr. Keep in mind, this is just base pay. If I work OT (at 1.5x), I'll be earning $150/hr. My salary range will probably be anywhere between $200K/yr to $300K/yr, depending on how much OT I work, which there is a lot of right now since the industry is booming.
You're making about $62.50/hr with benefits right now and are considering a bump to $100/hr without benefits (presumably).

Have you calculated the total compensation improvement? Depending on the structure you may actually be about the same position financially. Do you have to pay both sides of FICA (I'm guessing not as a W2 contractor). Do you have access to 401k for tax shelter purposes? Do you have to pay all of your healthcare? Do you have to move? If so, there's a COL adjustment. Can you negotiate for 1099 contracting with a slightly higher rate? Then you can qualify for a SEP IRA and can tax shelter a lot more (The lesser of $56k or 20% of your net income - since you'd be self employed). Will they allow overtime work? Is vacation paid? Any benefits? What are the terms for termination? How much will health insurance go up - or not?

These are questions that I'd be asking before I left a job with benefits.

Most importantly, factor in that contractors are the first to get da boot when budgets get tight - higher pay is the norm to compensate.

My number for someone to hire me contract (W2 or 1099) full time is 2x my currently hourly rate. I go a bit cheaper for my moonlighting services - mostly because folks don't want or need my really marketable skills when I'm working a few hours a week here and there.
+1 - I don't think the OP has fully calculated what the cost of benefits are. The other thing, counting your chickens before they hatched ("with overtime, right now the industry is booming"). What happens when the boom goes bust? Right back to $100 or worse, right onto the unemployment line. It's one thing to move like for like, but you clearly are not. Forum poster Tindel listed all of the key points. Think carefully before you jump.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
averagedude
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Re: Tell The Truth to Boss Why I'm Leaving? (More Money)

Post by averagedude »

I would like to point out that in today's environment, loyalty is punished by insurance company's, tv and phone providers, and employers. People should do their due diligence to make sure that they arent being taken advantage of.
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