When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

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flyingaway
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When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by flyingaway » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:46 am

Many people know they probably have enough to retire, say, using 4% rule or such, but are not 100% sure. So they work on one more year (or several one more years) for that buffer. Then they end up with too much money later in retirement.
When were you CONVINCED that you had more than enough money and started to give away (to charity, children, etc.)?
In that case, do you regret that you did not retire earlier?

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by relaxtothemax » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:50 am

flyingaway wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:46 am
Many people know they probably have enough to retire, say, using 4% rule or such, but are not 100% sure. So they work on one more year (or several one more years) for that buffer. Then they end up with too much money later in retirement.
When were you CONVINCED that you had more than enough money and started to give away (to charity, children, etc.)?
In that case, do you regret that you did not retire earlier?
I was convinced when I realized I could live on just my pension and SS and I did retire early, 56 and I funded pre SS out of my taxable account.
Over saving worked.

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Abe
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by Abe » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:52 am

I don't think you will ever be 100% sure, at least I'm not. But that's just me. May be different for other folks.
Slow and steady wins the race.

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JoeRetire
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by JoeRetire » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:52 am

flyingaway wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:46 am
Then they end up with too much money later in retirement.
Too much money? I don't understand that.
When were you CONVINCED that you had more than enough money and started to give away (to charity, children, etc.)?
In that case, do you regret that you did not retire earlier?
When I sat down with my new financial adviser and went over the analysis she had created. Then I was convinced that I had more than enough money.

I have not started to give any money away. I may or may not ever do that.

No, I don't regret retiring earlier.

There are many good reasons to retire. Hitting a magic "you have enough money" milestone isn't the only one. For me, that wasn't the most important factor.
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rh00p
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by rh00p » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:58 am

I'll let you know on the inevitable day I'm on my deathbed and never needed LTC due to Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, dementia, etc.

Till then, my signature...
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by midareff » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:20 pm

I began ramping up my annual charitable giving 5 years, having retired at age 64 early in 2012. Had I known this bull would be this far along, or having ended in December of 2018, would have made me retire a year or two earlier. Since I don't know what I don't know I am content with my extra giving and traveling.

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by 123 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:25 pm

Deleted. Too much personal data disclosed.
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corn18
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by corn18 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:31 pm

I agree that you will never be 100% sure. We are working with my MIL (77, widow) to get her into a retirement community. She has $2M in investments and a house worth $500k ($2.5M NW). Her annual income outside of her investments is $56k (COLA pension + SS). Her annual expenses are $50k.

On the face of it, she has more than enough.

Then you look at the cost of long term care and that $2.5M might not be enough. 10 years in a condo there ($500k buy in, $4,800/mo), then 5 years in assisted living there ($114k / year) and then the rest of her life in nursing home care there ($180k / year) = she runs out of money @ 100. Before we looked into all of this with her, we thought she was all set and we were discussing estate planning with her. Now we might not have any estate to plan for due to LTC costs. That's ok as we don't need her money, but I sure don't have $2.5M in the budget for LTC.
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:49 pm

rh00p wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:58 am
I'll let you know on the inevitable day I'm on my deathbed and never needed LTC due to Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, dementia, etc.

Till then, my signature...
Same here. Life happens. Charity will have to wait until my death. I think my responsibility until death is to not become a charity case involving my children.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven than I shall not go. " -Mark Twain

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by GerryL » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:10 pm

A couple of years before I planned to retire, I had Vanguard do a financial plan for me. Based on my planned spending the worst case scenario was that I would likely die at age 100 with a little more money than I would start retirement with at age 67. The best case scenario was mind boggling. I ended up retiring a year earlier than planned due to an "offer" with a nice severance package. I was convinced that I had enough.

Four years into retirement I significantly upped my planned spending target (even though the old target is meeting my needs and wants) and had Vanguard run another plan. Worst case scenario -- if I do up my spending -- I will still have plenty left at the end of the line.

Now the math challenge is to correctly balance how much to give away in QCDs to keep my income within bounds without undoing the "enough money" calculation. Math challenges are supposed to be good for the brain, right?

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by nisiprius » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:16 pm

When we got through the first year of retirement and our checking account balance was about the same at the end of the year as it had been at the beginning of the year.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by White Coat Investor » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:17 pm

flyingaway wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:46 am
Many people know they probably have enough to retire, say, using 4% rule or such, but are not 100% sure. So they work on one more year (or several one more years) for that buffer. Then they end up with too much money later in retirement.
When were you CONVINCED that you had more than enough money and started to give away (to charity, children, etc.)?
In that case, do you regret that you did not retire earlier?
Within the last year.

But we've been giving to charity and children all along.

No, I don't regret that I haven't retired yet. If I wanted to retire, I would.
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by snackdog » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:18 pm

You can't be 100% sure until you are dead, and then it's too late!

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GerryL
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by GerryL » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:23 pm

nisiprius wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:16 pm
When we got through the first year of retirement and our checking account balance was about the same at the end of the year as it had been at the beginning of the year.
This year I will take my first RMD. Less than 2 months into the year I noticed that since 31 December my IRA had grown 30% more than the RMD I will be removing. Of course, it could easily go in the other direction before the end of the year (or even next month), but it is an interesting barometer.

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by RickBoglehead » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:33 pm

Valid point - you never know.

We've made a decision that we're retiring (I'm semi-retired now) in just over 2 years when DW hits 10 years with her public school employer. This gets her an inadequate pension :D, as well as medical benefits from the state which will save us $10,000+ a year until Medicare, and somewhat less than that once we get Medicare, and a top-notch plan.

I've laid out some scenarios:

- Retire when she hits 10 years
- Stay to the end of the school year (another 2 1/2 months), less disruptive for students, earns more pay and more employer-provided benefits.
- Stay until 9/1 of the next school year, getting employer-provided benefits for the summer for almost nothing.
- Stay another 5 weeks and get 1/2 of accumulated sick days paid, plus 5 weeks of pay, plus 2 months of employer-provided benefits.

Each time period can be summarized in dollars, i.e. staying to the end of the school year is worth $X. Staying until 9/1 is worth $X + $Y.

You can always make a case to "make more". At some point you need to draw a line in the sand and say "this is it". Money isn't everything, and we don't live forever.
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by helloeveryone » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:38 pm

corn18 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:31 pm
I agree that you will never be 100% sure. We are working with my MIL (77, widow) to get her into a retirement community. She has $2M in investments and a house worth $500k ($2.5M NW). Her annual income outside of her investments is $56k (COLA pension + SS). Her annual expenses are $50k.

On the face of it, she has more than enough.

Then you look at the cost of long term care and that $2.5M might not be enough. 10 years in a condo there ($500k buy in, $4,800/mo), then 5 years in assisted living there ($114k / year) and then the rest of her life in nursing home care there ($180k / year) = she runs out of money @ 100. Before we looked into all of this with her, we thought she was all set and we were discussing estate planning with her. Now we might not have any estate to plan for due to LTC costs. That's ok as we don't need her money, but I sure don't have $2.5M in the budget for LTC.
the unknown is what's scary as far as how much $ is enough to feel comfortable. important would be a good advanced directive. that way everyone is on the same page as far as what she would want done if she got really sick/injured and couldn't communicate that to her family.

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by Laika » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:01 pm

At times going back 30 years, I've thought "this much would surely be enough." But in retrospect I've usually been wrong because I was too young for that to be adequate for life given the risks that lay before me.

Recently, I've felt more confident that I did have enough. Yet as markets have done well and with more years of savings, newer heights were obtained, and this has led to higher definitions of "enough." This is the notorious cognitive error of "anchoring," but it's hard to resist given that the new, bigger, enough is always objectively better than the old, smaller, enough.

But anyway:
  • I have a paid-off home and low baseline expenses.
  • I have health insurance at a semi-reasonable cost.
  • I will have a modest pension coming.
  • I have enough in liquid, shorter-term, more stable investments (short / intermediate-term bonds, cash) that even another Great Depression won't force me out of my home nor seriously impact my baseline needs.
  • I have enough in more volatile investments (stock) that I could potentially reap some benefits from growth and some resistance to inflation.
The net result is almost certainly "more than enough," and it's comforting to have, but I'd rather be 18 again!
Last edited by Laika on Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by fourwheelcycle » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:28 pm

When I was 55. I considered retiring at 56 but I was still enjoying my career so I kept working. I retired at 60 and continued consulting a few days per month until I was 67.

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by Carol88888 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:49 pm

I'm not happy unless I am saving and putting away money. So my answer: Never.

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:30 pm

Abe wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:52 am
I don't think you will ever be 100% sure, at least I'm not. But that's just me. May be different for other folks.
I agree. No one can predict the future. You have to get to a point where you're comfortable with the likely outcomes. I certainly wouldn't mind if there is a lot left. In fact I think that's the most likely outcome.

It wouldn't surprise me if I had no net spend-down as I think pension + SS (eventually) + growth of the portfolio will exceed most spending paths. Naturally I could end up needing long-term specialized care or something, but the money's there for that.

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Watty
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by Watty » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:56 pm

An old story about Kurt Vonnegut.
True story, Word of Honor: Joseph Heller, an important and funny writer now dead,and I were at a party given by a billionaire
on Shelter Island.

I said, "Joe, how does it make you feel to know that our host only yesterday may have made more money than your novel 'Catch-22' has earned in its entire history?"

And Joe said, "I've got something he can never have."

And I said, "What on earth could that be, Joe?"

And Joe said, "The knowledge that I've got enough."
It helps that I live in a moderate cost of living area but with a paid off house and Social Security that would cover most of my most basic living expenses "enough" is a pretty low bar, and I plan on retiring with a "bit" more than enough.

Long term care costs are also moderate here and not dramatically higher than my planned retirement budget so the home equity would be enough supplement the LTC especially if only one of use is surviving then. That is not 100% bulletproof but then it would be hard for most people to come up with a scenario that is 100% bulletproof.

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by Time2Quit » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:11 pm

Carol88888 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:49 pm
I'm not happy unless I am saving and putting away money. So my answer: Never.
+1 Saving is much better than spending.
"It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor." --Seneca

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celia
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by celia » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:16 pm

We came up with our retirement budget and actually lived on that amount for a year or two with all other money going to savings. We took withholdings from wages into account, such as taxes and health insurance premiums.

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by JDCarpenter » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:19 pm

Not yet, that's for sure. We are 59/58 and retired ~18 months on our portfolio. Highly unlikely that we have enough to spend the way we are now as long as we'd like (sequence of returns and percentage withdrawal rate). OTOH, very strong likelihood that we will always be able to spend at least as much post-tax as we did while working.

If we get anything like projected social security, odds would go up. So maybe in 12 years we'll know. :wink:
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by Rudedog » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:43 pm

When I was sick of my partners and most of the people I worked with. I had been thinking of retiring, working on the numbers and making worksheet after worksheet, so I just went all in and retired.

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by SandysDad » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:47 pm

Not for me, but what I see in others is when they sense the end is getting closer late in life they realize they won’t spend it all and ramp up donations gifts etc.

I think it is more of a function of the end being closer than that they saved X amount

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by VictoriaF » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:18 pm

I am 85% convinced.

If everything goes normally, I'll have enough money to last me until the age of 100. But the Devil is in abnormalities. I try to protect myself from potential significant issues as best I can. I live in a rented apartment and don't face the risks associated with home ownership; rent increases are predictable and I can move elsewhere. After I become eligible for Medicare, I will keep my FEHB coverage in addition to Part B to maintain some independence from potential changes in Medicare. Many of my interests are fulfilled using a computer and the Internet. If I were confined to bed, I could still read books and communicate with friends.

On the other hand, I don't have Long-Term Care insurance. The LTCI industry has a record of rising prices after people have paid in for years, and I don't want to fight for my benefits at the time when I will be the most vulnerable. If I develop a severely debilitating condition, I will seek a quick end.

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by hicabob » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:22 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:18 pm
If I develop a severely debilitating condition, I will seek a quick end.

Victoria
Same here. Need enough left for a one way first class ticket to Switzerland and first class round trip for companion.
8 figures made me stop worrying, which is ridiculous and more than I ever expected, but nice.

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by Dottie57 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:25 pm

I was pretty much convinced after a review by Bogleheads. I worked a little over a year more and then left with a nice severance package. All the calculators say I have enough. So I am convinced.

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by VictoriaF » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:27 pm

hicabob wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:22 pm
VictoriaF wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:18 pm
If I develop a severely debilitating condition, I will seek a quick end.

Victoria
Same here. Need enough left for a one way first class ticket to Switzerland and first class round trip for companion.
8 figures made me stop worrying, which is ridiculous and more than I ever expected, but nice.
Right. And even First class flights to Switzerland are far cheaper than long term care.

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by beyou » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:28 pm

When my job just became too painful to move forward, decided it was time to see if I need to continue moving forward career-wise.
By this I mean, do I want to "play the game", do things I despise to be promoted, including BS responsibilities, relocation, working for people with poor ethics, etc. So when the pain was too much to bear, forced to to do the math and figure out if I had "enough".

In the end that means making a forecast of likely income and expenses, and deciding if the two are close enough without my job.
LOTS of assumptions must be made, and anyone not comfortable with assumptions should plan to work the rest of their lives.
But I don't see how anyone could be successful enough to accumulate sufficient retirement assets, without making some educated assumptions in their job. And if you can do so on your job, why not for your most important business, the business of your own life ?

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by htdrag11 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:58 pm

nisiprius wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:16 pm
When we got through the first year of retirement and our checking account balance was about the same at the end of the year as it had been at the beginning of the year.
That worked for us, as well as confirmation from using the tool Firecalc. We still live below our means, out of habits. Both of us are healthy and have no debt. Our net worth had gone up since retirement, not ready to withdrawn from SS yet until 70.

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by balbrec2 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:11 pm

With the future being unknowable, too much is never enough!

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by flyingaway » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:30 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:25 pm
I was pretty much convinced after a review by Bogleheads. I worked a little over a year more and then left with a nice severance package. All the calculators say I have enough. So I am convinced.
Will you start to give away the surplus?

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flyingaway
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by flyingaway » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:34 pm

hicabob wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:22 pm
VictoriaF wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:18 pm
If I develop a severely debilitating condition, I will seek a quick end.

Victoria
Same here. Need enough left for a one way first class ticket to Switzerland and first class round trip for companion.
8 figures made me stop worrying, which is ridiculous and more than I ever expected, but nice.
I think that there are some states in the U.S. that can accommodate that need.

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by RollTide31457 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:47 pm

Financial independence = 25 x (yearly-expenses)

Yearly-expenses <= $30k

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:55 pm

RollTide31457 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:47 pm
Financial independence = 25 x (yearly-expenses)

Yearly-expenses <= $30k
That covers expected expenses, but not unexpected ones.

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by pdavi21 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:16 pm

I know how to tell if someone else is ready. If they respond to this post saying that no one is ready because (gloom and doom), they are ready. If they post, I am ready, they are not ready.
"We spend a great deal of time studying history, which, let's face it, is mostly the history of stupidity." -Stephen Hawking

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by EnjoyIt » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:19 pm

I realized that we have enough when our fixed expenses were ~2% of our wealth. Just dividends and interest alone will cover our basics which include:
home owners insurance
utilities
cell phone
gym
health insurance and cover the deductible
groceries
very sporadic take out or inexpensive restaurant.
lawn service and pool service
Car insurance and fuel

The above is just the minimum that we can live on and still be comfortable.

Once I knew I can cover the above at ~2% I knew that we will be OK. Our discretionary spending is another ~2%. Shortly after this realization. We went part time. With this part time money we are saving to maybe pay off the mortgage early and saving some cash for our kids higher education. That should be resolved within the next 1.5-3 years depending on investment returns. After that we may fully retire, or we might still work part time if we enjoy the work. I like having options.

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by JGoneRiding » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:19 pm

corn18 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:31 pm
I agree that you will never be 100% sure. We are working with my MIL (77, widow) to get her into a retirement community. She has $2M in investments and a house worth $500k ($2.5M NW). Her annual income outside of her investments is $56k (COLA pension + SS). Her annual expenses are $50k.

On the face of it, she has more than enough.

Then you look at the cost of long term care and that $2.5M might not be enough. 10 years in a condo there ($500k buy in, $4,800/mo), then 5 years in assisted living there ($114k / year) and then the rest of her life in nursing home care there ($180k / year) = she runs out of money @ 100. Before we looked into all of this with her, we thought she was all set and we were discussing estate planning with her. Now we might not have any estate to plan for due to LTC costs. That's ok as we don't need her money, but I sure don't have $2.5M in the budget for LTC.
That is a super high buy in AND high monthly rate for independent care! And I am familiar with hcol area. (The next 2 set of numbers seem totally inline with hcol areas for that level) are you sure the independent is that much! Have you looked ar other ccr places?

In contrast my gma paid a small fraction of that buy in and also only $3500 per month, at 99 she has run out of money so the risk is real. (The per month charge would make total sense with a low or no buy in)

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by Dottie57 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:27 pm

flyingaway wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:30 pm
Dottie57 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:25 pm
I was pretty much convinced after a review by Bogleheads. I worked a little over a year more and then left with a nice severance package. All the calculators say I have enough. So I am convinced.
Will you start to give away the surplus?
I don’t know if I have surplus. Won’t know until I die. So right now - no.

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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by flyingaway » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:45 pm

JGoneRiding wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:19 pm
corn18 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:31 pm
I agree that you will never be 100% sure. We are working with my MIL (77, widow) to get her into a retirement community. She has $2M in investments and a house worth $500k ($2.5M NW). Her annual income outside of her investments is $56k (COLA pension + SS). Her annual expenses are $50k.

On the face of it, she has more than enough.

Then you look at the cost of long term care and that $2.5M might not be enough. 10 years in a condo there ($500k buy in, $4,800/mo), then 5 years in assisted living there ($114k / year) and then the rest of her life in nursing home care there ($180k / year) = she runs out of money @ 100. Before we looked into all of this with her, we thought she was all set and we were discussing estate planning with her. Now we might not have any estate to plan for due to LTC costs. That's ok as we don't need her money, but I sure don't have $2.5M in the budget for LTC.
That is a super high buy in AND high monthly rate for independent care! And I am familiar with hcol area. (The next 2 set of numbers seem totally inline with hcol areas for that level) are you sure the independent is that much! Have you looked ar other ccr places?

In contrast my gma paid a small fraction of that buy in and also only $3500 per month, at 99 she has run out of money so the risk is real. (The per month charge would make total sense with a low or no buy in)
If you have bought your condo, what is the $4,800/mo (or $3,500/mo) for? It is not the assisted living or the nursing home, as those are listed later and are more expensive.

wmackey
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by wmackey » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:29 am

When I went through our past two years of spending and put together a budget and realized my withdrawal rate would be about 1.5 % even without social security and/or my part time gig.

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catdude
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by catdude » Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:19 am

flyingaway wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:34 pm
hicabob wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:22 pm
VictoriaF wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:18 pm
If I develop a severely debilitating condition, I will seek a quick end.

Victoria
Same here. Need enough left for a one way first class ticket to Switzerland and first class round trip for companion.
8 figures made me stop worrying, which is ridiculous and more than I ever expected, but nice.
I think that there are some states in the U.S. that can accommodate that need.
Yes, come to Oregon.
catdude | | "As much as cats fight, there always seems to be plenty of kittens." (Abraham Lincoln)

zbxb006
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by zbxb006 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:25 am

When I met with half a dozen financial advisers and watched them all salivate - with the caution that I'd need to have them manage my money to ensure it. Before going to them I was pretty sure I was ready to retire early, but their response did it.

NJdad6
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by NJdad6 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:17 am

Broken Man 1999 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:49 pm
rh00p wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:58 am
I'll let you know on the inevitable day I'm on my deathbed and never needed LTC due to Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, dementia, etc.

Till then, my signature...
Same here. Life happens. Charity will have to wait until my death. I think my responsibility until death is to not become a charity case involving my children.

Broken Man 1999
Very well said.

MikeG62
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by MikeG62 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:30 am

flyingaway wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:46 am
When were you CONVINCED that you had more than enough money and started to give away (to charity, children, etc.)?
I'd put it this way.

I was "comfortable" that we had "enough to retire on" when we got to the point where our projected annual retirement spend (inclusive of a very healthy discretionary budget for T&E) was 3.5% of our portfolio balance (and assuming no SS income ever received). This felt conservative enough to me. At the time I retired, the % had fallen to about 3.0%.

I would not say I am "convinced we have enough to start giving away" chunks of our assets (beyond what we give through our DAF). Of course, we are still relatively young (me 56 and DW 54 - and retired three years ago). Ask me again in 20 years and I hope to report that we are doing precisely that.
Real Knowledge Comes Only From Experience

Rus In Urbe
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by Rus In Urbe » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:41 am

I was convinced about the third year in a row the TIAA guy said to me "You've got your wills done for your family members, but you really need to give some serious thought about legacy, and what to do with all this money," and I realized, yeah, I've got to think about that. I went home and made another transfer of stock into my DAF and made a few other, local charitable contributions; and I'm making some other plans.

I'm retiring in December, not only because I feel I have enough, but because I accomplished in my job what I wanted to, and it's time to do other things.

I've been an aggressive investor during the accumulation decades, but now I'm pretty conservative on risk, with an overall 50/50 AA; a planned 3%WR; a LCOL paid-off house that's 8% of our NW; a CD ladder to cover fun-money expenses of the first five years; as well as a few other backup plans.

But despite all my careful saving and planning----all this could change in a heartbeat.
More than enough? Sure. For today. So I don't worry.
But I also don't kid myself that anything in life is absolutely certain.
I'd like to live as a poor man with lots of money. ~Pablo Picasso

kd2008
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by kd2008 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:59 am

I do not understand the irrational fear of people who have posted in this thread above. Take a look at a whole spectrum of outcomes for the population in their old age. You are more than likely in top 2%. Chances of dire outcome of being a charity case in old age is so small. Why do you fear that outcome so much? It is like worrying, obsessing (and working too many more years) about avoiding that unlikely outcome. You probably won't care what kind of care you get when you have dementia or other typical old age illness. No point in wasting your good years earning money to prevent that black swan event. There are other outcomes of sickness, death, tragedy etc that are more likely. A little bit of perspective, reflection and getting help/thearpy to address your fears is more than warranted.

I feel like expressly writing down you advanced healthcare directive is important. I have done so. Especially, since I do not wish to be a part of a funnel that enriches medical industrial complex in my old age with no benefit in terms of quality of life.

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knpstr
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Re: When were you convinced that you had more than enough money?

Post by knpstr » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:10 am

Watty wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:56 pm
It helps that I live in a moderate cost of living area but with a paid off house and Social Security that would cover most of my most basic living expenses "enough" is a pretty low bar, and I plan on retiring with a "bit" more than enough.
Same here. I am decades from retirement. But living in MI in a VLOCL, our expected S.S. benefits will completely fund all "necessities", if we get what we are promised. That being said, I'm not planning on receiving any - for caution's sake. If S.S. works out as promised it would appear ALL of our saving/investments will be for unexpected expenses and/or charity and/or luxury.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius

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