Losing a job in your 50's...

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Leemiller
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Leemiller » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:37 pm

This is one reason why we are dual income, even though at times it is tempting to have a parent home with our young kids. Having two careers is a safety net, otherwise I think it would have been harder for me to leave the safety of a government job otherwise. But I’m so so glad I did.

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:50 pm

cherijoh wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:25 am
Sandtrap wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:44 am
CyclingDuo,

From your statistic, you could see that it is too late for most folks.

A) Housing -> you cannot cut your mortgage.

B) Transportation -> you still have to pay your car loan. And, you need your cars to attend job interviews.

C) Realistically, you can only cut foods. This is a small percentage of the budget. But, people do starve in a laid off.

In the DC Metro area, the food bank is supplying food to about 10% of the population. And, we are not in a recession yet. So, it only can get worse in a recession.

KlangFool
Good points, as always, "Klang".
Also:
A) But you can sell your home. Move from HCOL to LCOL if possible. Tough if already in a LCOL area.
B) Agreed. But, if moving, can also downsize if vehicles are expensive or too many.
c) Agreed. My "depression era" dad once said, if you have to "eat poor" then you will really really feel poor.

j
Actually, you can't always sell your home. The Great Recession is a case in point. A guy I knew did everything possible to find a new job - we were in a job support networking group together and he definitely considered finding a job as his full time job. He actually received several offers that would have required relocation, but none of the new employers offered any relo benefits with the exception of paying for a moving truck. He turned these jobs down because he couldn't afford to pay his mortgage and for somewhere to live for the new job. (IIRC he had a wife and kids). He eventually found something that was technically within commuting distance of his house.

I don't think it is so much that you can immediately trim non-discretionary expenses. But that you NEED to take the possibility of having a spate of unemployment into account when contemplating the purchase in the first place! (Or the possibility of having a stay-at-home parent for couples contemplating having kids). I see a lot of "can I afford this house?" posts where the poster is looking to either move up from a so-called "starter home" or jump right to their "dream home" without thinking about what effect the purchase would have if they needed to implement a plan B.

Then there are those who buy a vacation home that is only affordable assuming a rosy financial forecast. Sure you may be able to offset some of the cost by renting the place out, but vacations are the first thing to go during a recession - even if the housing market doesn't crash! Or to a lesser extent, there is the issue of leasing a luxury car rather than buying the affordable non-luxury car for the same payment. The way cars depreciate, you may owe money to get out of a lease before it ends and you still are left with the need for a car!

All these decisions add up and are difficult to unwind after the fact when "life" happens.
Thanks for the excellent input.
Good point.
So true.
Discussions with generalities rarely apply to specifics and exceptions.
However, a little of everything and some things is helpful to some.
So many interesting things in this journey we have.
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willthrill81
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by willthrill81 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:04 pm

Leemiller wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:37 pm
This is one reason why we are dual income, even though at times it is tempting to have a parent home with our young kids. Having two careers is a safety net, otherwise I think it would have been harder for me to leave the safety of a government job otherwise. But I’m so so glad I did.
In theory, yes. In practice, not usually.

Most families, whether they are dual-income or single-income, spend most of what they earn. If this is the case, then dual-income families are at greater risk because it is roughly twice as likely for at least one spouse to get laid off as for a single-earner to lose their job.

If a dual-income family can meet their essential spending needs with the lesser of the two incomes, using the other spouse's income for savings and discretionary spending, then yes, having two incomes can be a very effective safety net.
Last edited by willthrill81 on Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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student
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by student » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:35 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:04 pm
Leemiller wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:37 pm
This is one reason why we are dual income, even though at times it is tempting to have a parent home with our young kids. Having two careers is a safety net, otherwise I think it would have been harder for me to leave the safety of a government job otherwise. But I’m so so glad I did.
In theory, yes. In practice, not usually.

Most families, whether they are dual-income or single-income, spend most of what they earn. If this is the case, then dual-income families are at greater risk because they it is roughly twice as likely for at least one spouse to get laid off as for a single-earner to lose their job.

If a dual-income family can meet their essential spending needs with the lesser of the two incomes, using the other spouse's income for savings and discretionary spending, then yes, having two incomes can be a very effective safety net.
Although the statement "dual-income families are at greater risk because they it is roughly twice as likely for at least one spouse to get laid off as for a single-earner to lose their job" is correct but if one person loses a job in a dual-income family, the family still has 50% of the income (assuming both have the same income). So I think it is more accurate to say (under some assumptions) that the probability of a dual-income family losing 50% of their income is about twice the probability of a single-earner losing 100% of his/her income, and the probability of a dual-income family losing 100% of their income is much lower than (about the square root of) the probability of a single-earner losing 100% his/her income.

Of course, your statement regarding meeting spending needs with one of the two incomes is very accurate.

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willthrill81
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by willthrill81 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:46 pm

student wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:35 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:04 pm
Leemiller wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:37 pm
This is one reason why we are dual income, even though at times it is tempting to have a parent home with our young kids. Having two careers is a safety net, otherwise I think it would have been harder for me to leave the safety of a government job otherwise. But I’m so so glad I did.
In theory, yes. In practice, not usually.

Most families, whether they are dual-income or single-income, spend most of what they earn. If this is the case, then dual-income families are at greater risk because they it is roughly twice as likely for at least one spouse to get laid off as for a single-earner to lose their job.

If a dual-income family can meet their essential spending needs with the lesser of the two incomes, using the other spouse's income for savings and discretionary spending, then yes, having two incomes can be a very effective safety net.
Although the statement "dual-income families are at greater risk because they it is roughly twice as likely for at least one spouse to get laid off as for a single-earner to lose their job" is correct but if one person loses a job in a dual-income family, the family still has 50% of the income (assuming both have the same income). So I think it is more accurate to say (under some assumptions) that the probability of a dual-income family losing 50% of their income is about twice the probability of a single-earner losing 100% of his/her income, and the probability of a dual-income family losing 100% of their income is much lower than (about the square root of) the probability of a single-earner losing 100% his/her income.
Yes, that's correct. 50% is certainly better than 0% (assuming that both spouses have equal incomes, which is rarely true), but if the family cannot satisfy their essential spending needs with 50%, then they're still going to be in a rough spot.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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CyclingDuo
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Re: What to do with your mortgage when losing a job in your 50's...

Post by CyclingDuo » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:53 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:53 am
CyclingDuo wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:46 am
stoptothink wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:04 pm
Wow, your experience with unemployment is the polar opposite of what my brother and best friend experienced in Utah. Both did close to nothing to receive their benefits. In fact, both delayed starting dates at their new jobs because they enjoyed the temporary vacation.
As mentioned upthread, every state has their own rules.

How old was your brother and your best friend during their unemployment?

My brother was 39 and my best friend was 34. This was last year. My brother is in oil & gas, so he is very used to this game. My best friend is a senior network administrator, he had a handful of job offers within 24hrs of his prior employer cutting his department, but he decided he needed a break so he played the game for almost 2 months before accepting one of the offers.
Understood.

I think it is just a bit more timely/precarious for those in their 50's to not sit idle too long when it comes to finding replacement income.

https://www.propublica.org/article/olde ... retirement

Only one in 10 of these workers ever again earns as much as they did before their employment setbacks, our analysis showed. Even years afterward, the household incomes of over half of those who experience such work disruptions remain substantially below those of workers who don’t.

“This isn’t how most people think they’re going to finish out their work lives,” said Richard Johnson, an Urban Institute economist and veteran scholar of the older labor force who worked on the analysis. “For the majority of older Americans, working after 50 is considerably riskier and more turbulent than we previously thought.”
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cockersx3
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by cockersx3 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:06 pm

hoppy08520 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:08 am
il0kin wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:39 pm
This has been a great thread to read, thank you to those willing to share about tough experiences. I'm an individual contributor in IT, age 30, so this gives me a lot of things to think about.
I was once too, now I’m almost 50, still doing ok but you never know. My advice is: save all you can. Compounding works. Put yourself in a good position so you can control your own destiny.
I remember watching people get laid off or "run off" (ie demoted or treated poorly by management, in an effort to encourage the employee to quit) when I was younger, and while I had some sympathy I also had just assumed that their plight was partially due to their own performance. I was consistently told by management that I was a high performer, and so I just assumed that the layoff / runoff would never happen to me.

But then, as I reached my mid-40's, the "run off" happened to me. We had a new engineering director come in who was laser-focused on reducing costs. And as one of the highest-paid engineers in my department, I became a target. My performance was still very high - had received numerous company awards the year prior, to be honest - but that didn't seem to outweigh the cost difference relative to those new engineers out of school. So, I was given dead-end assignments and treated poorly, until I eventually left the company a few months later. The company I'm at now is very good and appreciates the work I do, and actually pays more - but now I know how fast things can change.

Long story short - I agree with all the prior posts about how one needs to save early and often, in case they lose their jobs later in their career. However, I think the biggest impediment to that is the belief that "it will never happen to you." This is something I drill into my own kids - that no matter how much you may love your job in the future, it's critically important to have a well-stocked emergency fund to give yourself options if things at work suddenly turn.

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by mattyslice » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:07 pm

Really good conversation. Thanks for posting OP

Regattamom
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Regattamom » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:59 am

willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:46 pm
student wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:35 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:04 pm
Leemiller wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:37 pm
This is one reason why we are dual income, even though at times it is tempting to have a parent home with our young kids. Having two careers is a safety net, otherwise I think it would have been harder for me to leave the safety of a government job otherwise. But I’m so so glad I did.
In theory, yes. In practice, not usually.

Most families, whether they are dual-income or single-income, spend most of what they earn. If this is the case, then dual-income families are at greater risk because they it is roughly twice as likely for at least one spouse to get laid off as for a single-earner to lose their job.

If a dual-income family can meet their essential spending needs with the lesser of the two incomes, using the other spouse's income for savings and discretionary spending, then yes, having two incomes can be a very effective safety net.
Although the statement "dual-income families are at greater risk because they it is roughly twice as likely for at least one spouse to get laid off as for a single-earner to lose their job" is correct but if one person loses a job in a dual-income family, the family still has 50% of the income (assuming both have the same income). So I think it is more accurate to say (under some assumptions) that the probability of a dual-income family losing 50% of their income is about twice the probability of a single-earner losing 100% of his/her income, and the probability of a dual-income family losing 100% of their income is much lower than (about the square root of) the probability of a single-earner losing 100% his/her income.
Yes, that's correct. 50% is certainly better than 0% (assuming that both spouses have equal incomes, which is rarely true), but if the family cannot satisfy their essential spending needs with 50%, then they're still going to be in a rough spot.
I’ve been thinking about this exact issue lately. I am a stay at home parent and have been for a number of years. I feel some guilt over the fact that I have not been helping pad our savings account. And I worry about what would happen if my husband lost his job.

But on the other hand, I know that my husband would not have been able to take the incredible job he currently has without me agreeing to stay home. He travels all the time and there is no way it would have worked for our family if I had continued to work outside the home. And he makes a lot more now than we both made together while I was still working. We live well below our means and if he did lose his job, I could find some type of work to help fill the gap.

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by lakpr » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:09 am

student wrote: So I think it is more accurate to say (under some assumptions) that the probability of a dual-income family losing 50% of their income is about twice the probability of a single-earner losing 100% of his/her income, and the probability of a dual-income family losing 100% of their income is much lower than (about the square root of) the probability of a single-earner losing 100% his/her income.
Probabilities expressed as a fraction are always less than 1, therefore square root of a probability value means a higher probability than the value itself. I think you meant "square" of the probability, not "square root of", to convey the lower than expected probability of both spouses becoming unemployed simultaneously.

Sorry boss, just nitpicking.

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Mr.BB » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:01 am

Regattamom wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:59 am
willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:46 pm
student wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:35 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:04 pm
Leemiller wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:37 pm
This is one reason why we are dual income, even though at times it is tempting to have a parent home with our young kids. Having two careers is a safety net, otherwise I think it would have been harder for me to leave the safety of a government job otherwise. But I’m so so glad I did.
In theory, yes. In practice, not usually.

Most families, whether they are dual-income or single-income, spend most of what they earn. If this is the case, then dual-income families are at greater risk because they it is roughly twice as likely for at least one spouse to get laid off as for a single-earner to lose their job.

If a dual-income family can meet their essential spending needs with the lesser of the two incomes, using the other spouse's income for savings and discretionary spending, then yes, having two incomes can be a very effective safety net.
Although the statement "dual-income families are at greater risk because they it is roughly twice as likely for at least one spouse to get laid off as for a single-earner to lose their job" is correct but if one person loses a job in a dual-income family, the family still has 50% of the income (assuming both have the same income). So I think it is more accurate to say (under some assumptions) that the probability of a dual-income family losing 50% of their income is about twice the probability of a single-earner losing 100% of his/her income, and the probability of a dual-income family losing 100% of their income is much lower than (about the square root of) the probability of a single-earner losing 100% his/her income.
Yes, that's correct. 50% is certainly better than 0% (assuming that both spouses have equal incomes, which is rarely true), but if the family cannot satisfy their essential spending needs with 50%, then they're still going to be in a rough spot.
I’ve been thinking about this exact issue lately. I am a stay at home parent and have been for a number of years. I feel some guilt over the fact that I have not been helping pad our savings account. And I worry about what would happen if my husband lost his job.

But on the other hand, I know that my husband would not have been able to take the incredible job he currently has without me agreeing to stay home. He travels all the time and there is no way it would have worked for our family if I had continued to work outside the home. And he makes a lot more now than we both made together while I was still working. We live well below our means and if he did lose his job, I could find some type of work to help fill the gap.
Don't undervalue of creating a loving and stable home environment for your family. I have not doubt that you being at home taking care of your home and family allows your husband to focus on his work and allows him to do what he does well. Besides (and I bet he would agree) you have the harder job taking care of the home and raising your kids.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."

student
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by student » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:08 am

lakpr wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:09 am
student wrote: So I think it is more accurate to say (under some assumptions) that the probability of a dual-income family losing 50% of their income is about twice the probability of a single-earner losing 100% of his/her income, and the probability of a dual-income family losing 100% of their income is much lower than (about the square root of) the probability of a single-earner losing 100% his/her income.
Probabilities expressed as a fraction are always less than 1, therefore square root of a probability value means a higher probability than the value itself. I think you meant "square" of the probability, not "square root of", to convey the lower than expected probability of both spouses becoming unemployed simultaneously.

Sorry boss, just nitpicking.
Yes. Meant to write square and wrote down square root. Double funny for a math professor. (Not nickpicking, I would have taken points off if my students did this.)

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by GCD » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:16 am

Regattamom wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:59 am
I’ve been thinking about this exact issue lately. I am a stay at home parent and have been for a number of years. I feel some guilt over the fact that I have not been helping pad our savings account. And I worry about what would happen if my husband lost his job.

But on the other hand, I know that my husband would not have been able to take the incredible job he currently has without me agreeing to stay home. He travels all the time and there is no way it would have worked for our family if I had continued to work outside the home. And he makes a lot more now than we both made together while I was still working. We live well below our means and if he did lose his job, I could find some type of work to help fill the gap.
Once you get married you're a team. Your team is maximizing its income and providing a full-time parent at home for the kids. That's a win.

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CyclingDuo
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by CyclingDuo » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:18 am

cockersx3 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:06 pm
Long story short - I agree with all the prior posts about how one needs to save early and often, in case they lose their jobs later in their career. However, I think the biggest impediment to that is the belief that "it will never happen to you." This is something I drill into my own kids - that no matter how much you may love your job in the future, it's critically important to have a well-stocked emergency fund to give yourself options if things at work suddenly turn.
Yes, save early and often to build up your nest egg. Even if one previously felt their income was more bond-like due to the particular career (government employees, tenured professors, doctors, etc...) threads like this show that it can happen to you. Although the original focus was intended to revolve around immediate steps to take if it happens to you, the thread has evolved to also focus on the preparation years leading up to your 50's so mitigating the fallout can be accomplished. In my mind, both are of importance.

The article link I posted a bit upthread is filled with interesting data. Some may call it doom and gloom, but it is reality for many in the over age 50 crowd and depending on which side of the experience you find yourself - it is worth knowing the odds and being prepared. I think I will go back and add a link to it in the original post as additional must reading.

Here it is again:

https://www.propublica.org/article/olde ... retirement

Although we have all touched on various issues raised in this article, it certainly illustrates the difficulty of those in their 50's if they suffer a layoff, are forced to retire, are partially forced out, or even if they voluntary leave with hopes of finding replacement work - the going forward can get rough.

Image

Not sure what the percentage was for workers in their 50's in 2018 for the combined forced or partially forced retirements, but the rise of that percentage from 33% to 55% between 1998 and 2014 is troubling. Less we forget that time period included a pair of recessions where we know layoffs occur, it does concur with the obvious theme emerging in this thread. Being aware of the odds can help build your plans early around the premise that if and when being downsized or being forced out or being partially forced out in your 50's occurs, you are well prepared.

This is not new to many who have contributed to this thread, but for many of us - including myself - when it happens to you, you find yourself quickly being pulled up to speed and initiated into a club you may have prior thought you would not be joining. As the data shows, it does not happen to everyone. Therefore we must be careful not to say it will happen to every worker.

Image

This one depicts the scenario that 1/3 of those who suffer a layoff in their 50's and find replacement income get pushed out additional times. Ouch!

Image by
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by texasdiver » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:43 am

Regattamom wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:59 am
willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:46 pm
student wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:35 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:04 pm
Leemiller wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:37 pm
This is one reason why we are dual income, even though at times it is tempting to have a parent home with our young kids. Having two careers is a safety net, otherwise I think it would have been harder for me to leave the safety of a government job otherwise. But I’m so so glad I did.
In theory, yes. In practice, not usually.

Most families, whether they are dual-income or single-income, spend most of what they earn. If this is the case, then dual-income families are at greater risk because they it is roughly twice as likely for at least one spouse to get laid off as for a single-earner to lose their job.

If a dual-income family can meet their essential spending needs with the lesser of the two incomes, using the other spouse's income for savings and discretionary spending, then yes, having two incomes can be a very effective safety net.
Although the statement "dual-income families are at greater risk because they it is roughly twice as likely for at least one spouse to get laid off as for a single-earner to lose their job" is correct but if one person loses a job in a dual-income family, the family still has 50% of the income (assuming both have the same income). So I think it is more accurate to say (under some assumptions) that the probability of a dual-income family losing 50% of their income is about twice the probability of a single-earner losing 100% of his/her income, and the probability of a dual-income family losing 100% of their income is much lower than (about the square root of) the probability of a single-earner losing 100% his/her income.
Yes, that's correct. 50% is certainly better than 0% (assuming that both spouses have equal incomes, which is rarely true), but if the family cannot satisfy their essential spending needs with 50%, then they're still going to be in a rough spot.
I’ve been thinking about this exact issue lately. I am a stay at home parent and have been for a number of years. I feel some guilt over the fact that I have not been helping pad our savings account. And I worry about what would happen if my husband lost his job.

But on the other hand, I know that my husband would not have been able to take the incredible job he currently has without me agreeing to stay home. He travels all the time and there is no way it would have worked for our family if I had continued to work outside the home. And he makes a lot more now than we both made together while I was still working. We live well below our means and if he did lose his job, I could find some type of work to help fill the gap.
Before she became a politician, Elizabeth Warren wrote a book in 2003 called "The Two Income Trap" that basically outlines this same argument as discussed in this review: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... arren-book
The “two-income trap,” as described by Warren, really consists of three partially separate phenomena that have arisen as families have come to rely on two working adults to make ends meet:

The addition of a second earner means, in practice, a big increase in household fixed expenses for things like child care and commuting.

Much of the money that American second earners bring in has been gobbled up, in practice, by zero-sum competition for educational opportunities expressed as either skyrocketed prices for houses in good school districts or escalating tuition at public universities.

Last, while the addition of the second earner has not brought in much gain, it has created an increase in downside risk by eliminating an implicit insurance policy that families used to rely on.

This last point is really the key to Warren’s specific argument about bankruptcy, though it’s the first two that would drive her larger interest in politics. Bad things have always happened to families from time to time. In a traditional two-parent, one-earner family, there was always the possibility that mom could step up and help out when trouble arose.

“If her husband was laid off, fired, or otherwise left without a paycheck,” Warren and Tyagi write, “the stay-at-home mother didn’t simply stand helplessly on the sidelines as her family toppled off an economic cliff; she looked for a job to make up some of that lost income.” Similarly, if a family member got sick, mom was available as an unpaid caregiver. “A stay-at-home mother served as the family’s ultimate insurance against unemployment or disability — insurance that had a very real economic value even when it wasn’t drawn on.”

A modern family where mom is already working has no “give” and is much more likely to be pushed into bankruptcy by job loss or family illness unless it builds up a big financial cushion. But most families, of course, didn’t build up big financial cushions. The main financial savings vehicle for the American middle class was the owner-occupied home in the good school district. But the only way to tap that asset is to sell it and move someplace less desirable, disrupting children’s lives and risking a tumble out of the middle class.

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Socal77 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:57 am

Does anyone have examples of industries or jobs where being over 50 is to the workers advantage?

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Random Poster » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:18 am

Socal77 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:57 am
Does anyone have examples of industries or jobs where being over 50 is to the workers advantage?
Historically speaking, President of the United States?

student
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by student » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:20 am

Socal77 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:57 am
Does anyone have examples of industries or jobs where being over 50 is to the workers advantage?
Personally, I think I prefer an older doctor due to his/her experience.

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by texasdiver » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:34 am

Socal77 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:57 am
Does anyone have examples of industries or jobs where being over 50 is to the workers advantage?
Can't think of any "worker-bee" level jobs where it would be an advantage. But a lot of top level CEO and institutional administrative jobs go to people over 50. Top administrators and colleges and universities, CEOs, cabinet secretarires, military generals and admirals, etc. Basically top positions in which it takes 20-30 years of climbing to get there.

The exception might be in legacy professions and areas where old expertise is needed and new workers coming up might not have it. Operating certain older types of machinery that take special skills, for example.
Last edited by texasdiver on Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

oilrig
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by oilrig » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:36 am

I was surprised at how many older folks I worked with when I worked in oil and gas. I worked with people in their 60's that could have worked for as long as they wanted. I think its one of the few industries where experience is truly valued.

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by texasdiver » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:39 am

student wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:20 am
Socal77 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:57 am
Does anyone have examples of industries or jobs where being over 50 is to the workers advantage?
Personally, I think I prefer an older doctor due to his/her experience.
Don't be too sure about that. We aren't talking about who patients might prefer. We are talking about who employers might prefer. Is a physicians group or hospital more likely to hire a young doctor ready to work 80 hour weeks with night call? Or an older doctor who might be set in their ways at the tail end of their career?

cherijoh
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Re: What to do with your mortgage when losing a job in your 50's...

Post by cherijoh » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:47 am

CyclingDuo wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:53 pm
I think it is just a bit more timely/precarious for those in their 50's to not sit idle too long when it comes to finding replacement income.

https://www.propublica.org/article/olde ... retirement

Only one in 10 of these workers ever again earns as much as they did before their employment setbacks, our analysis showed. Even years afterward, the household incomes of over half of those who experience such work disruptions remain substantially below those of workers who don’t.

“This isn’t how most people think they’re going to finish out their work lives,” said Richard Johnson, an Urban Institute economist and veteran scholar of the older labor force who worked on the analysis. “For the majority of older Americans, working after 50 is considerably riskier and more turbulent than we previously thought.”
+1
It took me until about 2 years before I retired to get back to the salary I had more than a decade earlier when I separated from my former employer of 20+ years at age 45. Fortunately, I was easily able to LBYM on even the smaller salary. I cut back on some discretionary expenses like travel and discontinued investing in taxable accounts. I was still able to max out my 401k (including catch-up contributions after 50) and my Roth IRA. Having been aggressive about saving throughout my career allowed me to still retire early -- albeit later than I otherwise would have had I continued to work for my old employer until retirement.

This wouldn't have worked for someone who was counting on the period from 50 until retirement to get a serious start (or make up for a late start) on their retirement investing. "Make hay while the sun shines" is an old saw for a good reason.

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by KlangFool » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:52 am

oilrig wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:36 am
I was surprised at how many older folks I worked with when I worked in oil and gas. I worked with people in their 60's that could have worked for as long as they wanted. I think its one of the few industries where experience is truly valued.
oilrig,

Survivorship bias. Those that did not survive would not be in the oil and gas employer while they are in the 60s. I used to live in Houston. So, I know plenty of ex-oil and gas employees.

KlangFool

cherijoh
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Re: What to do with your mortgage when losing a job in your 50's...

Post by cherijoh » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:04 am

texasdiver wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:27 pm
CyclingDuo wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:16 pm
What to do with the mortgage if a layoff hits in your 50's?
Lots of good stuff cut. One option not mentioned (unless I missed it) is supplementing income renting out part of your house short or long term. For people with larger homes in HCOL areas this might be a very viable option. Either create an AirB&B guest suite in part of the house or take in a roommate of some kind, especially if the house design accommodates it. For example, I have a finished basement with separate entrance I could easily rent out. Might require some lifestyle adjustments but perhaps better than losing the house or going through the sunk costs associated with selling.
A woman I know rented out at least one bedroom in her house when she was laid off to help cover her mortgage. IIRC, she had her master downstairs and unused bedrooms and bath upstairs.

Random Poster
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Random Poster » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:05 am

oilrig wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:36 am
I was surprised at how many older folks I worked with when I worked in oil and gas. I worked with people in their 60's that could have worked for as long as they wanted. I think its one of the few industries where experience is truly valued.
On the technical side, perhaps, although that is changing.*

On the land side, not so much. Land work today has very little in common with land work in the 1990s or before.


* Note that in the mid to late 1980's and most of the 1990's, petroleum engineering was not a "hot" career area and degree enrollment plummeted. Accordingly, there was, at least for a while, a wide gulf in the ages of the engineers at most companies, where you'd have a bunch in the 50+ category and some in the 20-35 category, but almost nothing in between those age groups. In my experience, a lot of the engineers have started to age-out and retire, and the younger engineers are taking over, and I don't get the sense that experience is valued all that much these days.

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by stoptothink » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:07 am

KlangFool wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:52 am
oilrig wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:36 am
I was surprised at how many older folks I worked with when I worked in oil and gas. I worked with people in their 60's that could have worked for as long as they wanted. I think its one of the few industries where experience is truly valued.
oilrig,

Survivorship bias. Those that did not survive would not be in the oil and gas employer while they are in the 60s. I used to live in Houston. So, I know plenty of ex-oil and gas employees.

KlangFool
My brother is in oil & gas. He's only 40 and, despite making insane money for the level of education and skill (he has a GED, his only pre-oil work experience was 10yrs in the army as a grunt, and he makes $250k/yr...when he's working), really trying to figure out what to do next because he knows very few people that last in the oil fields even as long as he has. Unfortunately, Porsche's/AMG's, exotic vacations, and renting Mcmansions have taken precedence over saving. He recently bragged to me that he now has over $100k in his 401k; I bit my tongue because he has almost twice that (in debt) parked inside his 4-car garage in his $6k/month rented home. I can't imagine what the freefall is going to be like when he can no longer physically work in the oil fields because his family has become very accustomed to a very high-end lifestyle.

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by student » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:19 am

texasdiver wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:39 am
student wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:20 am
Socal77 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:57 am
Does anyone have examples of industries or jobs where being over 50 is to the workers advantage?
Personally, I think I prefer an older doctor due to his/her experience.
Don't be too sure about that. We aren't talking about who patients might prefer. We are talking about who employers might prefer. Is a physicians group or hospital more likely to hire a young doctor ready to work 80 hour weeks with night call? Or an older doctor who might be set in their ways at the tail end of their career?
Maybe someone in the medical field can chime in.

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by texasdiver » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:25 am

student wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:19 am
texasdiver wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:39 am
student wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:20 am
Socal77 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:57 am
Does anyone have examples of industries or jobs where being over 50 is to the workers advantage?
Personally, I think I prefer an older doctor due to his/her experience.
Don't be too sure about that. We aren't talking about who patients might prefer. We are talking about who employers might prefer. Is a physicians group or hospital more likely to hire a young doctor ready to work 80 hour weeks with night call? Or an older doctor who might be set in their ways at the tail end of their career?
Maybe someone in the medical field can chime in.
I'm not in the medical field but my wife is. She is frequently on interview teams for new physicians for their large HMO. It sounds to me like they tilt towards young doctors fairly fresh out of residency whom they can more easily mold into their system. Looking for "team players" and such. Although there may be quite a bit of self-selection going on as well, it sounds like they rarely ever interview older candidates. I'm just basing that on who we sometimes take out on candidate interview dinners. It might just be the case that older doctors are simply not interested in joining a high-volume HMO style practice.
Last edited by texasdiver on Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by cherijoh » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:29 am

mtmingus wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:31 pm
Thanks for pointing that out! Banks can do whatever they want.
I had my HELOC reduced by my bank in 2009 for reason you all know.
A few yrs late they notified me a couple of times that I could have my line adjusted up (didn't bother).
I pay only $50/yr for the credit line.
I remember lots of people getting up in arms when the banks reduced their HELOC limits during the Great Recession - as though they were entitled to the maximum LOC previously granted or that the bank was impugning their creditworthiness by reducing the limits. What people don't think about is that it was a natural (and smart) reaction to a decline in the home's value (i.e., collateral for the loan).

From the risk perspective of the bank, their exposure is the entire value of the line of credit -- not just what is already used. Since the bank can't call any loan that is up-to-date in payments, their only opportunity to reduce the risk of the portfolio is reduce the unused limits of the "riskiest" HELOCs in terms of the loan-to-value (LTV) assuming the maximum draw on the existing HELOC.
Last edited by cherijoh on Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by willthrill81 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:36 am

cherijoh wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:29 am
mtmingus wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:31 pm
Thanks for pointing that out! Banks can do whatever they want.
I had my HELOC reduced by my bank in 2009 for reason you all know.
A few yrs late they notified me a couple of times that I could have my line adjusted up (didn't bother).
I pay only $50/yr for the credit line.
I remember lots of people getting up in arms when the banks reduced their HELOC limits during the Great Recession - as though they were entitled to the maximum LOC previously granted or that the bank was impugning their creditworthiness by reducing the limitsir. What people don't think about is that it was a natural (and smart) reaction to a decline in the home's value (i.e., collateral for the loan).

From the risk perspective of the bank, their exposure is the entire value of the line of credit -- not just what is already used. Since the bank can't call any loan that is up-to-date in payments, their only opportunity to reduce the risk of the portfolio is reduce the unused limits of the "riskiest" HELOCs in terms of the loan-to-value (LTV) assuming the maximum draw on the existing HELOC.
From an objective standpoint, you can't blame the banks for no longer wanting to extend the same level of secured credit when the underlying security is no longer there.

FWIW, a HELOC secured by a paid off home is likely to be much more dependable.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by student » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:37 am

texasdiver wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:25 am
student wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:19 am
texasdiver wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:39 am
student wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:20 am
Socal77 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:57 am
Does anyone have examples of industries or jobs where being over 50 is to the workers advantage?
Personally, I think I prefer an older doctor due to his/her experience.
Don't be too sure about that. We aren't talking about who patients might prefer. We are talking about who employers might prefer. Is a physicians group or hospital more likely to hire a young doctor ready to work 80 hour weeks with night call? Or an older doctor who might be set in their ways at the tail end of their career?
Maybe someone in the medical field can chime in.
I'm not in the medical field but my wife is. She is frequently on interview teams for new physicians for their large HMO. It sounds to me like they tilt towards young doctors fairly fresh out of residency whom they can more easily mold into their system. Looking for "team players" and such. Although there may be quite a bit of self-selection going on as well, it sounds like they rarely ever interview older candidates. I'm just basing that on who we sometimes take out on candidate interview dinners. It might just be the case that older doctors are simply not interested in joining a high-volume HMO style practice.
Thanks for the info.

cherijoh
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by cherijoh » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:43 am

SlowlySaving wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:53 pm
Definitely a timely post for me also. I was laid off on Friday. :( I will read and review the links in the original post, THANKS OP! :happy
Sorry to hear that!

So much for our "full employment" economy. :(

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by stoptothink » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:49 am

student wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:37 am
texasdiver wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:25 am
student wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:19 am
texasdiver wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:39 am
student wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:20 am


Personally, I think I prefer an older doctor due to his/her experience.
Don't be too sure about that. We aren't talking about who patients might prefer. We are talking about who employers might prefer. Is a physicians group or hospital more likely to hire a young doctor ready to work 80 hour weeks with night call? Or an older doctor who might be set in their ways at the tail end of their career?
Maybe someone in the medical field can chime in.
I'm not in the medical field but my wife is. She is frequently on interview teams for new physicians for their large HMO. It sounds to me like they tilt towards young doctors fairly fresh out of residency whom they can more easily mold into their system. Looking for "team players" and such. Although there may be quite a bit of self-selection going on as well, it sounds like they rarely ever interview older candidates. I'm just basing that on who we sometimes take out on candidate interview dinners. It might just be the case that older doctors are simply not interested in joining a high-volume HMO style practice.
Thanks for the info.
I'm not a healthcare professional myself, but similarly, my employer has a series of clinics (an on-site clinic for employees and 4 other direct primary care clinics throughout the country) and I am part of the board that hires the physicians, PAs, and nurses. We are definitely looking for younger practitioners. It's no different than when I am hiring for my own team, we tend to prefer the younger (just out of school) scientists because we can mold them into our way of doing things.

cherijoh
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by cherijoh » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:11 pm

texasdiver wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:34 am
Socal77 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:57 am
Does anyone have examples of industries or jobs where being over 50 is to the workers advantage?
Can't think of any "worker-bee" level jobs where it would be an advantage. But a lot of top level CEO and institutional administrative jobs go to people over 50. Top administrators and colleges and universities, CEOs, cabinet secretarires, military generals and admirals, etc. Basically top positions in which it takes 20-30 years of climbing to get there.

The exception might be in legacy professions and areas where old expertise is needed and new workers coming up might not have it. Operating certain older types of machinery that take special skills, for example.
I think there is a niche for older IT workers who maintained their old skills AND kept up with the trends in new languages. A friend has had a steady stream of consulting jobs since she retired because she kept her COBOL skills up-to-date while learning all the current programming languages as well. There are apparently a decent number of larger legacy companies that still have mainframe computers that need to be maintained. And the programs on them must interface with other company functions/programs not on the mainframe.

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by texasdiver » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:02 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:49 am
student wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:37 am
texasdiver wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:25 am
student wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:19 am
texasdiver wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:39 am


Don't be too sure about that. We aren't talking about who patients might prefer. We are talking about who employers might prefer. Is a physicians group or hospital more likely to hire a young doctor ready to work 80 hour weeks with night call? Or an older doctor who might be set in their ways at the tail end of their career?
Maybe someone in the medical field can chime in.
I'm not in the medical field but my wife is. She is frequently on interview teams for new physicians for their large HMO. It sounds to me like they tilt towards young doctors fairly fresh out of residency whom they can more easily mold into their system. Looking for "team players" and such. Although there may be quite a bit of self-selection going on as well, it sounds like they rarely ever interview older candidates. I'm just basing that on who we sometimes take out on candidate interview dinners. It might just be the case that older doctors are simply not interested in joining a high-volume HMO style practice.
Thanks for the info.
I'm not a healthcare professional myself, but similarly, my employer has a series of clinics (an on-site clinic for employees and 4 other direct primary care clinics throughout the country) and I am part of the board that hires the physicians, PAs, and nurses. We are definitely looking for younger practitioners. It's no different than when I am hiring for my own team, we tend to prefer the younger (just out of school) scientists because we can mold them into our way of doing things.
Although, at least for physicians, I don't think there is that much difficulty staying employed in the 50s because there is such a shortage of physicians in this country. It may not be where you want to work, but someplace is always desperate for physicians. So I don't think they are really the poster child for mid-50s involuntary unemployment. The more likely scenario is mid-50s burnout and dropping out of the profession voluntarily. Or cutting back drastically.

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by KlangFool » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:56 pm

Folks,

A chronological series of events. Hopefully, someone learns something out of this.

1) Hooray!! I achieved 1 million net worth excluding the house before I am 50 years old. I can "cash flow" my kid college education.

2) A few weeks afterward, you are being laid off before you are 50 years old. As per your severance, your paycheck will run out early next year. Let's call this as time X.

3) Goto eye exam. Need cataract surgery on the left eye. A few thousand gone.

4) My right eye is bad too. Let's get it done too. Another few thousand gone.

5) Son going to college in August. Still unemployed. Deciding between Vtech with no scholarship versus University X with 6K per year scholarship. Choose to pay the 24K extra.

6) Between severance, project work, unemployment, income drop by half. But, the annual expense due to college expense, and cataract surgery. The expense increase to 100K to 120K. But, the market is doing well. End result is the portfolio stays even.

7) One year anniversary of unemployment. What am I supposed to do next? Daughter going to college next year. My wife needs cataract surgery for both of her eyes too.

8) Unsolicited contact via Linkedin from a Megacorp recruiter: please apply to our job position. 2 phone call interviews within 3 weeks. Job offer two weeks later.

9) Work from home with a new job. Cash flowing my kids' college education.

10) Should be ready to retire when my daughter graduated.

Life is full of up and down.

KlangFool

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by KlangFool » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:03 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:07 am
KlangFool wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:52 am
oilrig wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:36 am
I was surprised at how many older folks I worked with when I worked in oil and gas. I worked with people in their 60's that could have worked for as long as they wanted. I think its one of the few industries where experience is truly valued.
oilrig,

Survivorship bias. Those that did not survive would not be in the oil and gas employer while they are in the 60s. I used to live in Houston. So, I know plenty of ex-oil and gas employees.

KlangFool
My brother is in oil & gas. He's only 40 and, despite making insane money for the level of education and skill (he has a GED, his only pre-oil work experience was 10yrs in the army as a grunt, and he makes $250k/yr...when he's working), really trying to figure out what to do next because he knows very few people that last in the oil fields even as long as he has. Unfortunately, Porsche's/AMG's, exotic vacations, and renting Mcmansions have taken precedence over saving. He recently bragged to me that he now has over $100k in his 401k; I bit my tongue because he has almost twice that (in debt) parked inside his 4-car garage in his $6k/month rented home. I can't imagine what the freefall is going to be like when he can no longer physically work in the oil fields because his family has become very accustomed to a very high-end lifestyle.
stoptothink,

I had a peer that is used to be a Telecom engineer. He is ex-Navy. He has the knowledge and experience (10+ years). But, he does not have a degree. After the laid off, he could not find any equivalent technical job and he is 40+ years old. He is trying to get an online degree to fill up the gap.

KlangFool

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by willthrill81 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:05 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:56 pm
Folks,

A chronological series of events. Hopefully, someone learns something out of this.

1) Hooray!! I achieved 1 million net worth excluding the house before I am 50 years old. I can "cash flow" my kid college education.

2) A few weeks afterward, you are being laid off before you are 50 years old. As per your severance, your paycheck will run out early next year. Let's call this as time X.

3) Goto eye exam. Need cataract surgery on the left eye. A few thousand gone.

4) My right eye is bad too. Let's get it done too. Another few thousand gone.

5) Son going to college in August. Still unemployed. Deciding between Vtech with no scholarship versus University X with 6K per year scholarship. Choose to pay the 24K extra.

6) Between severance, project work, unemployment, income drop by half. But, the annual expense due to college expense, and cataract surgery. The expense increase to 100K to 120K. But, the market is doing well. End result is the portfolio stays even.

7) One year anniversary of unemployment. What am I supposed to do next? Daughter going to college next year. My wife needs cataract surgery for both of her eyes too.

8) Unsolicited contact via Linkedin from a Megacorp recruiter: please apply to our job position. 2 phone call interviews within 3 weeks. Job offer two weeks later.

9) Work from home with a new job. Cash flowing my kids' college education.

10) Should be ready to retire when my daughter graduated.

Life is full of up and down.

KlangFool
Thanks KlangFool. That provides further incentive for me to do all I can to reach my goal of FI by age 55, which will be around the time that our daughter will go to college if she so chooses.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by G12 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:24 pm

I haven't had a job since I was 45, that's 10-years now, and that is/was by choice. My employer was having a re-org, I had zero interest in the new role offered and took a comp package that was about 8 months of income and vesting in retirement plan, etc. My wife is still working and will likely retire this year at 55 with a small pension, she enjoys her work but wants a break. She may or may not do something part time but it won't be financially necessary. Her continuing to work allowed her to pension vest and for us to save a lot of money in her 403b and Roths. She sees a lot of patients in the age range of 45-85 as a physical therapist in a home health division of a large hospital group. I'm not anti-kids, but one of the quickest paths to financial freedom is not having kids. She often hears patients say they wish they had not had kids, etc, she estimates over 40% of her patients say that for various reasons. My wife didn't want kids, 2 of my sisters do not have kids, a third sister has 2 kids that are 14-16 years old. Her husband is 53 and has been laid off 4x in the last 4 years. When he is employed he makes $130-$150k per year, but travels all the time. He works for consulting firms in process control and many of his gigs were tied to the O&G industry with plenty of flux. My sister has a part time job which doesn't begin to cover living costs, much less saving. Their retirement and taxable funds have dropped close to 300k over this time period due to withdrawals and probably have about $250k left. He became employed again in December, so things are looking up for them at the moment. He would like to work another 10 years to build up their assets, but says there is no way he can do the travel for that long. Not sure what they are going to do, but it has been quite stressful for them. If my wife and I had children there is no way I could have made the decision I did. If you have have low fixed costs early paired with a high saving rate and invest successfully life becomes easier to manage financially as you age and definitely less stressful regarding economic ups and downs.

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by GCD » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:07 pm

Socal77 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:57 am
Does anyone have examples of industries or jobs where being over 50 is to the workers advantage?
I don't know if this is really on target, but retired federal investigators don't have much problem finding work. At least if you are at one of the major agencies like FBI, DEA, USSS or one that deals with financial crimes like IRS. Federal investigators have a maximum retirement age of 57 with a few very rare exceptions. I have never known anyone to struggle finding a post-retirement job making 75%+ of their final salary and I'd say 90%+ of retired agents easily find jobs making more than their final salary. The first year after I retired I had 3 unsolicited job offers from 100% to 120% of my final salary. These were true unsolicited offers, nothing I sought out. I'm happy being fully retired and not working. Just from keeping up with old friends I'm generally aware of a couple dozen jobs at 75%-150% of my final salary that I could probably get.

These post-retirement jobs aren't really available to anyone under 50. Minimum retirement age for federal agents is 50 and the eligibility requirements aren't generally achievable by anyone other than a retired Fed.

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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Elsebet » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:22 pm

In my late 20's I heard a layoff/unemployment horror story from a age 50+ coworker and ever since then I've had it in the back of my mind that I may not be able to work all the way to full retirement age. I have 55 set as my "soft retirement" age just in case I can't work until age 59.5.
"...the man who adapts himself to his slender means and makes himself wealthy on a little sum, is the truly rich man..." ~Seneca

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beyou
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by beyou » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:39 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:03 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:07 am
KlangFool wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:52 am
oilrig wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:36 am
I was surprised at how many older folks I worked with when I worked in oil and gas. I worked with people in their 60's that could have worked for as long as they wanted. I think its one of the few industries where experience is truly valued.
oilrig,

Survivorship bias. Those that did not survive would not be in the oil and gas employer while they are in the 60s. I used to live in Houston. So, I know plenty of ex-oil and gas employees.

KlangFool
My brother is in oil & gas. He's only 40 and, despite making insane money for the level of education and skill (he has a GED, his only pre-oil work experience was 10yrs in the army as a grunt, and he makes $250k/yr...when he's working), really trying to figure out what to do next because he knows very few people that last in the oil fields even as long as he has. Unfortunately, Porsche's/AMG's, exotic vacations, and renting Mcmansions have taken precedence over saving. He recently bragged to me that he now has over $100k in his 401k; I bit my tongue because he has almost twice that (in debt) parked inside his 4-car garage in his $6k/month rented home. I can't imagine what the freefall is going to be like when he can no longer physically work in the oil fields because his family has become very accustomed to a very high-end lifestyle.
stoptothink,

I had a peer that is used to be a Telecom engineer. He is ex-Navy. He has the knowledge and experience (10+ years). But, he does not have a degree. After the laid off, he could not find any equivalent technical job and he is 40+ years old. He is trying to get an online degree to fill up the gap.

KlangFool
Age old issue. When I started at a major bank/broker in 1987, I observed traders and others spending lavish bonuses on luxury vacation homes and cars, then selling them after October 1987. Same again in 1998, 2001 and 2009. Some people need to learn from their mistakes, sometimes big ones. I was fortunate to be young and very observant in October 1987 and learned the lesson very early on, pay down debt and invest, don't buy vacation homes and fancy cars. Now in my 50s....I am torn between impatience to retire and a mild fear of being laid off and ageism.

Really hard to get kids in their 20s to think 30 years in the future, so an early career layoff and then 1987 crash both did me a huge favor ! While I was young and easily recovered from both, my observation of others made me realize the need for FI over material things.

montanagirl
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by montanagirl » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:21 pm

Elsebet wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:22 pm
In my late 20's I heard a layoff/unemployment horror story from a age 50+ coworker and ever since then I've had it in the back of my mind that I may not be able to work all the way to full retirement age. I have 55 set as my "soft retirement" age just in case I can't work until age 59.5.
I held off with this because it's so depressing. My brother had it made in Silicon Valley in the 80s. Gotta admit, he was smug. Especially about PCs. He thought them laughable.

But then he was laid off in the early 90s. You could see it coming a mile away. He never really worked again. (So, he did 3 mo testing servers with some hardware co with ONE contract then they lost it and it was all over.) He kept his head up, networked, went to a ton of interviews, took classes in Windows programming.. but no. No more work in IT anyway. He never considered anything else. His kids joined the service, and he sold the family piano, the house, and moved to be near my dad, who ended up basically supporting everybody except me in the late 1990s with the gains from his rip-roaring Contra fund.

That all haunted me for years, so I hung on to my lousy IT marketing job until I was finally laid off at 65. Win! :beer

Pancho
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Pancho » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:39 pm

Socal77 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:57 am
Does anyone have examples of industries or jobs where being over 50 is to the workers advantage?

Court interpreting. It tends to be a second career for most people (at least in the US). Most people who use the services of court interpreters seem to prefer an interpreter with gray hair and seem skeptical of interpreters under 40.

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CyclingDuo
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by CyclingDuo » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:51 am

montanagirl wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:21 pm
Elsebet wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:22 pm
In my late 20's I heard a layoff/unemployment horror story from a age 50+ coworker and ever since then I've had it in the back of my mind that I may not be able to work all the way to full retirement age. I have 55 set as my "soft retirement" age just in case I can't work until age 59.5.
I held off with this because it's so depressing. My brother had it made in Silicon Valley in the 80s. Gotta admit, he was smug. Especially about PCs. He thought them laughable.

But then he was laid off in the early 90s. You could see it coming a mile away. He never really worked again. (So, he did 3 mo testing servers with some hardware co with ONE contract then they lost it and it was all over.) He kept his head up, networked, went to a ton of interviews, took classes in Windows programming.. but no. No more work in IT anyway. He never considered anything else. His kids joined the service, and he sold the family piano, the house, and moved to be near my dad, who ended up basically supporting everybody except me in the late 1990s with the gains from his rip-roaring Contra fund.

That all haunted me for years, so I hung on to my lousy IT marketing job until I was finally laid off at 65. Win! :beer
All stories welcome - depressing or not. Your brother's story is a good reminder that no matter what age, retooling, remaking, learning new, exploring all options, etc... needs to include thinking outside of the box and being stuck in an industry niche that was formerly one's primary comfort zone if one wants to continue using their human capital.

I'm the second oldest of an eclectic mix of six siblings (one a full sibling, four of them half siblings, as well as one an adopted sibling). Only one of us has escaped a layoff in a mix of industries that includes healthcare, financial planning, technology, sales, performing arts/education, and education services. I'm the only one that has not been divorced, but the combination of layoffs and divorces along with the subsequent choices in those aftermaths have impacted all of my siblings in a variety of ways that - in at least a couple of cases - includes the financial side bordering on depressing.

Kudos to you. Your story of "hanging on" and making it to 65 is worthy of a well deserved :beer .

Can we all assume that after the layoff at age 65 you were prepared and all is well with you?
"Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time." ~ Steven Wright

Stick5vw
Posts: 128
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Stick5vw » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:34 am

CyclingDuo wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:51 am
montanagirl wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:21 pm
Elsebet wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:22 pm
In my late 20's I heard a layoff/unemployment horror story from a age 50+ coworker and ever since then I've had it in the back of my mind that I may not be able to work all the way to full retirement age. I have 55 set as my "soft retirement" age just in case I can't work until age 59.5.
I held off with this because it's so depressing. My brother had it made in Silicon Valley in the 80s. Gotta admit, he was smug. Especially about PCs. He thought them laughable.

But then he was laid off in the early 90s. You could see it coming a mile away. He never really worked again. (So, he did 3 mo testing servers with some hardware co with ONE contract then they lost it and it was all over.) He kept his head up, networked, went to a ton of interviews, took classes in Windows programming.. but no. No more work in IT anyway. He never considered anything else. His kids joined the service, and he sold the family piano, the house, and moved to be near my dad, who ended up basically supporting everybody except me in the late 1990s with the gains from his rip-roaring Contra fund.

That all haunted me for years, so I hung on to my lousy IT marketing job until I was finally laid off at 65. Win! :beer
All stories welcome - depressing or not. Your brother's story is a good reminder that no matter what age, retooling, remaking, learning new, exploring all options, etc... needs to include thinking outside of the box and being stuck in an industry niche that was formerly one's primary comfort zone if one wants to continue using their human capital.

I'm the second oldest of an eclectic mix of six siblings (one a full sibling, four of them half siblings, as well as one an adopted sibling). Only one of us has escaped a layoff in a mix of industries that includes healthcare, financial planning, technology, sales, performing arts/education, and education services. I'm the only one that has not been divorced, but the combination of layoffs and divorces along with the subsequent choices in those aftermaths have impacted all of my siblings in a variety of ways that - in at least a couple of cases - includes the financial side bordering on depressing.

Kudos to you. Your story of "hanging on" and making it to 65 is worthy of a well deserved :beer .

Can we all assume that after the layoff at age 65 you were prepared and all is well with you?

Truer words above have never been spoken! I've seen people at all ages - not just in their 50s - in different stages of their career have to deal with layoffs and job transitions (including myself) where all of these points come into play. Never get complacent and always keep evolving.

scubadiver
Posts: 1193
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by scubadiver » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:08 pm

Random Poster wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:18 am
Socal77 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:57 am
Does anyone have examples of industries or jobs where being over 50 is to the workers advantage?
Historically speaking, President of the United States?
Senator Pro Tempore - The present incumbent is a youthful 85. :)

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Time2Quit
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by Time2Quit » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:19 pm

I realised something on this thread. That most people who are laid off in their 50’s just hang it up if they can not find another job. I see very little mention of starting a bussiness and wonder why this is not an option for more people?
"It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor." --Seneca

sailaway
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by sailaway » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:28 pm

Time2Quit wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:19 pm
I realised something on this thread. That most people who are laid off in their 50’s just hang it up if they can not find another job. I see very little mention of starting a bussiness and wonder why this is not an option for more people?
Perhaps because most new businesses fail and if they aren't prepared to retire they probably aren't prepared for that?

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KlingKlang
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Re: Losing a job in your 50's...

Post by KlingKlang » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:40 pm

Time2Quit wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:19 pm
I realised something on this thread. That most people who are laid off in their 50’s just hang it up if they can not find another job. I see very little mention of starting a bussiness and wonder why this is not an option for more people?
IMO most people who have worked as employees into their 50's are not good candidates to be entrepreneurs (always some exceptions of course). It's an attitude that you either inherit from your family or develop relatively early in life. Those older folk that do try to start a business usually try with a franchise that often burns through their retirement savings without yielding the promised returns. I was laid off at 58 just over the edge of FI and did not care to risk losing what I had worked for.

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