Chase credit card dispute - denied

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tibbitts
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Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by tibbitts » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:03 pm

In December I was emailed an Avis rental car receipt from Atlantic city, for a rental I didn't make. I have an Avis profile with my card and other information. I immediately notified Chase that my card had been authorized (charge had not come through yet) for a charge I didn't make. I told them I disputed the charge and the authorization disappeared from my account. Later, several toll charges related to the rental appeared, most recently January 15, and they were removed also. Chase cancelled the card and sent me a new one. I contacted Avis after both the initial rental and later toll charges.

Today Chase called to tell me my dispute had been denied. They said they did not have any signature or other evidence that I'd rented the car but that because I had rented an Avis car (most recently) eighteen months previously several thousand miles away, that established a pattern that showed the charge was legitimate. They indicated that was their final determination.

Next I called Avis again, and at first the rep was helpful and indicated a form had not been filed correctly, and asked if i could submit proof that I was 1000+ miles away for the duration of the rental. As it happens, none of my credit cards (Chase or otherwise) had any local charges for the 3-day duration of the rental, and I didn't have any other dated documentation, except that my employer showed me as not taking time off during those three (mid-week, so normal work) days. Avis would not accept employer records as proof that I didn't rent the car.

The story is getting to long but eventually I escalated my issue with Avis to a manager who contacted the Avis location. Apparently someone with my same name is a frequent customer and the location had pulled up the wrong profile and not verified the address or credit card on the rental. So while Chase is putting the charges back on my (new) card today, Avis claims they will credit back the charge within 5 days. Even if that happens I'll have to fight interest charges with Chase, probably.

My question is: how best to proceed if:

1. Avis doesn't reverse the newly restored charges;
2. Something similar happens in the future?

Thecallofduty
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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by Thecallofduty » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:10 pm

You informed chase you had fradulent charge and they still put the charge back on? That sounds unusual. Did you not have your card cancelled immediately after your first call with the bank?
Something does not sound right.
-thecallofduty

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tibbitts
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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by tibbitts » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:16 pm

Thecallofduty wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:10 pm
You informed chase you had fradulent charge and they still put the charge back on? That sounds unusual. Did you not have your card cancelled immediately after your first call with the bank?
Something does not sound right.
I called Chase before the charge hit my account, because Avis emailed me the receipt upon the car return. So it only showed at that point when I called Chase as an authorization at the time, not a charge yet.I called Chase less than 30 minutes after the return had been made. I had Chase cancel the card immediately during that phone call and they sent a replacement that arrived in a few days. The authorization disappeared after Chase took my report and I had not heard about it again (except for the follow-on charges for tolls) until today, roughly seven weeks later.

I don't believe it turned out to be fraudulent but was merely a mistake - but I didn't have any idea of that at the time. I assumed fraud initially and reported it as fraud.

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by tibbitts » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:41 pm

Since I had never really considered that possibility that I'd have to pay for charges I didn't make, now I'm thinking of reducing the limits on all of my cards from the current amounts (roughly $5k-$20k) down to perhaps $1000 - $2000. I normally pay off the cards multiple times per month, almost as soon as charges appear, so I don't need more credit than that under normal circumstances.

p8bwd
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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by p8bwd » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:42 pm

Last year I had a similar issue. During a trip to IKEA, I was erroneously charged for several hundred dollars worth of merchandise I did not intend to purchase. IKEA manager tried to reverse the charge on the same day, but it still eventually posted and I never received a credit. After several weeks of trying to resolve it on the merchant side, they told me to file a dispute with Chase. Initially Chase took the charge away, but then a couple months later they reinstated the erroneous charge with little to no explanation or support. This is despite me supplying substantiating receipts with my initial dispute. It was eventually resolved by the merchant forcing a credit back onto my credit card using a different method, but Chase was of no help during the process. It's super infuriating, as you experienced, to have a dispute denied and an erroneous charge reinstated on your account.

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Raybo
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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by Raybo » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:45 pm

Does Avis have video cameras in the rental locations or the car pick-up? If so, you could ask to see the video. Maybe that would convince Chase.

Frankly, I'd cancel the Chase card and find another bank.
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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by Bimmer » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:50 pm

Raybo wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:45 pm
Does Avis have video cameras in the rental locations or the car pick-up? If so, you could ask to see the video. Maybe that would convince Chase.

Frankly, I'd cancel the Chase card and find another bank.
+1
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tibbitts
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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by tibbitts » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:21 am

Raybo wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:45 pm
Does Avis have video cameras in the rental locations or the car pick-up? If so, you could ask to see the video. Maybe that would convince Chase.

Frankly, I'd cancel the Chase card and find another bank.
Well I could ask but considering that rental companies won't even provide logs to justify loss-of-use charges, I'm not seeing a lot of hope there.

While I'm very angry at Chase, some of their cards do offer benefits others don't, and I'm not sure I wouldn't run into the same situation with any other bank. So I think cancelling the card (and my five other Chase cards) would be a net loss for me, and of course not matter at all to Chase.

Thecallofduty
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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by Thecallofduty » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:26 am

Genuinely curious. Dont you have to show ID when you rent a car? Do they have a copy of ID of whoever rented the vehicle?
-thecallofduty

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by whodidntante » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:29 am

See if you can file a CFPB complaint, go to arbitration, or maybe a good old fashioned small claims lawsuit. Probably in that order.

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by tibbitts » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:04 am

Thecallofduty wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:26 am
Genuinely curious. Dont you have to show ID when you rent a car? Do they have a copy of ID of whoever rented the vehicle?
I have always had to show both ID and the credit card I used when renting. Avis said the person who rented the car was a frequent customer at that facility and had the same name as I did, so the names matched, although obviously the picture wouldn't have if anyone had checked. I don't know what happens when a booth rep takes your license and credit card - I just know they hand it back a minute or two later. I doubt they generally have a scanner to copy the license at the exit booth, if there even is one at that airport. When you rent with a profile there is nothing to sign - you just show ID and leave with the car. Smaller airports just have a counter and the ID etc. is checked there.

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by ash000000 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:14 am

I've also had a bad experience with Chase. During one of my stays at Hilton, I was charged about $150 for two international phone calls. We were not in hotel at the time of the calls but Hotel manager refused to take away the charges. Chase initially took the charge away but couple of months later reinstated the charges stating that hotel has send them a copy of their phone records. I had no way to prove that we were not in the room at the time of supposed call. The representative from Chase was polite but not any helpful.

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by mighty72 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:16 am

I would remove the card from Avis profile. When I book they ask for a card which I enter. Also, I have always seen them swipe the card when I pick up. For Avis preferred they swipe the card at the exit booth.

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by newinvestor84 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:38 am

I have had similar problems with Chase and poor customer service on charge-backs. A few days after staying at a Hyatt hotel, additional charges for an on-site restaurant showed up on our credit card (which we never ate at). I immediately called Hyatt, which claimed they couldn't fix it, and would have a manager get back to me (who never did). I requested a charge-back from Chase providing a copy of the zero-balance portfolio from our checkout. Three months later, they put the $80 charge back on my account, saying that they had written down that my charge-back was due to a "double charge" and that I wasn't "double charged". *facepalm*

I clarified that this was an additional charge (repeating what I had said months earlier), and I asked if Hyatt had provided a copy of the food receipt. No, because they don't do that in instances of a "double charge". The Chase customer service agent also accused me of claiming that someone had broken into my hotel room and ordered food. *facepalm* . It took another 3 months to get Chase to resolve the claim in my favor.
Last edited by newinvestor84 on Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by Luckywon » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:39 am

Chase's position on this is absolutely apalling and shameful, on so many levels, IMO.

Ironically, just yesterday I applied for my first Chase credit ever, i.e. an Amazon Prime Rewards card. This story makes me think that was a mistake. I do buy a lot on Amazon so the 5 % back may still be too tempting to pass up. At the least, though, I will keep that credit card under lock and key and only use it for Amazon purchases. Maybe I will also ask for a low credit limit.

You should not have had to make the efforts you did to get this on the right track Kudos to you for persevering. It sounds like this will be resolved in your favor but if it does not I wonder if small claims court is an option, either suing Avis or Chase. Unfortunately, I think a lot of the contracts we are under are subject to arbitration.

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by tibbitts » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:45 am

viz wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:16 am
I would remove the card from Avis profile. When I book they ask for a card which I enter. Also, I have always seen them swipe the card when I pick up. For Avis preferred they swipe the card at the exit booth.
In retrospect, I should have not stored the card with Avis, but I can't fix that now. I have not entered the new card into my profile.

The card was in my Avis Preferred profile, but never left my possession until I destroyed it when Chase sent the new card with a different number. So it was not swiped by anyone. There were no other cardholders. This was an Avis Preferred rental.

I'm not sure there is an exit booth involved here - smaller airports don't have one, and I haven't been to Atlantic City or its airport for twenty-five years or so.

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by tibbitts » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:51 am

Luckywon wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:39 am
Chase's position on this is absolutely apalling and shameful, on so many levels, IMO.

Ironically, just yesterday I applied for my first Chase credit ever, i.e. an Amazon Prime Rewards card. This story makes me think that was a mistake. I do buy a lot on Amazon so the 5 % back may still be too tempting to pass up. At the least, though, I will keep that credit card under lock and key and only use it for Amazon purchases. Maybe I will also ask for a low credit limit.

You should not have had to make the efforts you did to get this on the right track Kudos to you for persevering. It sounds like this will be resolved in your favor but if it does not I wonder if small claims court is an option, either suing Avis or Chase. Unfortunately, I think a lot of the contracts we are under are subject to arbitration.
The total amount involved is $200-ish so not catastrophic for me, but it has gotten me to thinking that higher credit limits than necessary may be significantly disadvantageous. Of course it's important with a low limit especially to have not opted-in to allowing charges above the credit limit, since that would just incur additional fees and still allow charges for a truly financially-damaging amount to go through.

I expect that Chase will impose retroactive interest and not remove that voluntarily even if the charges are credited back.

MadHungarian
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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by MadHungarian » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:45 am

I generally don't store a credit card# at any of my vendors, if i can help it. If someone hacks one of my accounts, there's no reason to make things too easy for them...

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by Watty » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:58 am

MadHungarian wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:45 am
I generally don't store a credit card# at any of my vendors, if i can help it. If someone hacks one of my accounts, there's no reason to make things too easy for them...
+1

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by livesoft » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:18 am

It reads like Avis has this figured out. When Avis credits you the amount, then you tell Chase, "See? Avis determined it was not correct, so no interest or late charges from Chase! Please credit my account with any of those charges. Thanks!"
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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by chw » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:37 am

whodidntante wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:29 am
See if you can file a CFPB complaint, go to arbitration, or maybe a good old fashioned small claims lawsuit. Probably in that order.
+1. Complaint is very easy to file on-line. Once filed, if I'd be surprised if Chase didn't remove the charge within 30 days. Banks hate to get these complaints.

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by samsoes » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:55 am

tibbitts wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:03 pm
I immediately notified Chase that my card had been authorized (charge had not come through yet) for a charge I didn't make. I told them I disputed the charge and the authorization disappeared from my account.
This seems odd. Every credit card I've ever had has made it clear that you cannot dispute an authorization; disputes can only be made once the charge posts to the account.
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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by aristotelian » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:19 am

Seems like Avis's fault. When Chase investigated, they denied and gave Chase evidence that it was you. From Chase's standpoint, it looks like a legit transaction. I would expect that Avis will make you whole. If not, consider directing your efforts toward them.

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by Retired2013 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:29 am

tibbitts wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:45 am
viz wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:16 am
I would remove the card from Avis profile. When I book they ask for a card which I enter. Also, I have always seen them swipe the card when I pick up. For Avis preferred they swipe the card at the exit booth.
In retrospect, I should have not stored the card with Avis, but I can't fix that now. I have not entered the new card into my profile.

The card was in my Avis Preferred profile, but never left my possession until I destroyed it when Chase sent the new card with a different number. So it was not swiped by anyone. There were no other cardholders. This was an Avis Preferred rental.

I'm not sure there is an exit booth involved here - smaller airports don't have one, and I haven't been to Atlantic City or its airport for twenty-five years or so.
Everybody is saying Chase is wrong but isn't it a Avis problem? Yet we keep doing business with the vendors that cause the problem!

If Avis is now going to provide you a credit to your card but you and Chase cancelled the card, how is Avis going to credit the new card if they don't have the information? Who fault will this be when the credit isn't processed to the new card?

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by galawdawg » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:32 am

Watty wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:58 am
MadHungarian wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:45 am
I generally don't store a credit card# at any of my vendors, if i can help it. If someone hacks one of my accounts, there's no reason to make things too easy for them...
+1
+1

I also always use a virtual card number for all online transactions. I set the expiration date for just after the transaction should be complete and the dollar limit at the next whole dollar above the transaction amount. Once the transaction properly posts to my credit card account, I delete or cancel that virtual card number.

When renting a car, I do save the virtual card number on the Hertz or Avis website so that I can use their preferred or expedited service when picking up the car. I've never been asked to show a credit card at the exit booth, just my driver's license. Again, once my travels are complete and the correct charge posts to my account, I delete/cancel that virtual card number. I create a new number each time I need to reserve a car.

Citibank and Bank of America are two credit card issuers that have a virtual account number feature. I figure that may also provide some measure of protection. In the event of a data breach, the evildoer ( :twisted: ) only gets an expired virtual number that has already been used up to it's approved credit limit.

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by CrazyCatLady » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:24 am

tibbitts wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:04 am
Thecallofduty wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:26 am
Genuinely curious. Dont you have to show ID when you rent a car? Do they have a copy of ID of whoever rented the vehicle?
I have always had to show both ID and the credit card I used when renting. Avis said the person who rented the car was a frequent customer at that facility and had the same name as I did, so the names matched, although obviously the picture wouldn't have if anyone had checked. I don't know what happens when a booth rep takes your license and credit card - I just know they hand it back a minute or two later. I doubt they generally have a scanner to copy the license at the exit booth, if there even is one at that airport. When you rent with a profile there is nothing to sign - you just show ID and leave with the car. Smaller airports just have a counter and the ID etc. is checked there.
If they are a frequent renter, they probably have status and wouldn't need to show a credit card. I'm not Avis, but I'm a hertz president's circle member. My credit card is saved in my profile and when I pick up my car, I skip the desk and I just have to show my license at the gate and I'm out in 2 minutes.

What I'm guessing happened here is that it was a last minute rental and they didn't have an advance reservation and instead just rented at the counter. The agent keyed in their (your) name, didn't double check the address against their license, and since your profile popped up first, they just clicked okay and it charged to your credit card on file.

I'm not surprised at Chase's actions. You disputed the charge saying you didn't rent or pick up the car. Avid responds to Chase's inquiry with the rental records showing the car was rented and dropped off and probably also your electronic signature agreeing to have your card auto charged for any rentals. No one would suspect that Avis goofed and rented the car to the wrong person using your account, so it looks like you were trying to get a free rental.

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by Leemiller » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:29 am

chw wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:37 am
whodidntante wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:29 am
See if you can file a CFPB complaint, go to arbitration, or maybe a good old fashioned small claims lawsuit. Probably in that order.
+1. Complaint is very easy to file on-line. Once filed, if I'd be surprised if Chase didn't remove the charge within 30 days. Banks hate to get these complaints.

+2. This. You can also file with the office of the comptroller of the currency. When dealing with Chase look for langue that refers to regulation E. You should be provided with a copy of their investigation results upon request at minimum.

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by Jimmie » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:40 am

This was not fraud. It was a mistake on Avis' part. It would be their due diligence to contact the other party with a similar name to get this straightened out.

I travel lots for business. If I did not receive a receipt, I would question that omission. And, I would not be upset if I received a charge for a car I legitimately rented in the case it was overlooked weeks ago prior.

Keep pursuing this, but only with Avis. It was their mistake in posting a legitimate charge (not fraudulent) to the wrong person.

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by tibbitts » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:00 am

Jimmie wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:40 am
This was not fraud. It was a mistake on Avis' part. It would be their due diligence to contact the other party with a similar name to get this straightened out.

I travel lots for business. If I did not receive a receipt, I would question that omission. And, I would not be upset if I received a charge for a car I legitimately rented in the case it was overlooked weeks ago prior.

Keep pursuing this, but only with Avis. It was their mistake in posting a legitimate charge (not fraudulent) to the wrong person.
Yes, but I only learned this story long after the fact and concluded that it was likely not fraud, so I reported it initially as fraud and closed my card.

Initially Avis' position, until yesterday, was that I had to prove I was physically not in Atlantic City on the rental dates, and because for those three days I have no local receipts/charges/etc., other than me not having taken those days off from my employer and not being authorized to travel on those days, I have no proof where I was. If Chase had initially told me when I reported the issue that I had to prove where I was (30 minutes after the rental car was returned), I could have done that. They knew the story but didn't ask me for that.

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by Trism » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:11 am

I always try to resolve the matter with the merchant before disputing the charge with the credit card company.

Literally just this morning I noticed that a restaurant charge from Saturday appears 2x on one of our Amex cards (posted/NOT pending). I emailed the restaurant manager this morning (his email address is on their web site) before the sun came up, and got an apologetic reply within 20 minutes with a promise of an immediate credit.

If a situation reaches the point where you have to dispute anything with the credit card company, and you do this via phone, I would also send a paper letter detailing your dispute via a trackable method in case later you need to assert your rights under the Fair Credit Billing Act. It's easier to prove that you disputed within the required timeframe if there is a paper trail.

For right now, wait to see if Avis does the right thing, which it sounds like they will.

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by rich126 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:20 am

tibbitts wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:41 pm
Since I had never really considered that possibility that I'd have to pay for charges I didn't make, now I'm thinking of reducing the limits on all of my cards from the current amounts (roughly $5k-$20k) down to perhaps $1000 - $2000. I normally pay off the cards multiple times per month, almost as soon as charges appear, so I don't need more credit than that under normal circumstances.
Be careful of reducing limits since that can affect your credit score. Part of the score is based on how much credit you are utilizing (e.g., charging a total of $3,000 on cards that have a total limit of $30,000 is 10%) and by reducing your limits, your utilization will be higher. The theory being someone utilizing 70% of their limit are a higher risk than someone using 10%. Of course this misses some obvious issues.

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:28 am

Time to find yourself a new credit card provider. Any company that uses some creative form of assumption based on charges made over 18 months ago and over 1,000 miles away over your word,needs to get the heave-ho, but not before they get a verbal and written letter chewing them out. Something is seriously wrong in the credit card fraud department at Chase to arrive at the conclusion you described. Who want's to deal with people like that? There are plenty of other competitors out there, find one and get rid of these guys.
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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by Nowizard » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:35 am

Check to be certain your comments are accurate, file a complaint and decide whether you want to stay with Chase. Sounds like you will be made whole other than for what would be an inconsequential interest charge. It is a difficult world out there to get to operate perfectly, and that is not going to change. You do have a choice of which imperfect credit card issuer you will use. Not an ideal outcome, but you seem to have done about all you can do. The part about your necessity of providing proof of your whereabouts at the time is confusing.

Tim

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ResearchMed
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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by ResearchMed » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:06 am

This is SO different from how Amex handles "problems", which we have always found remarkably consumer friendly.
In some cases, they caught fraudulent charges (or attempts) before we were even aware of it.

We tend to try to use Amex for anything that "might be" sketchy, including online transactions.

Note to self: Congrats on not using Chase, and let's keep it that way!

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by letsgobobby » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:28 am

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Last edited by letsgobobby on Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

SrGrumpy
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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by SrGrumpy » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:29 pm

Avis would not accept employer records as proof that I didn't rent the car.

You need to take this up the Avis ladder. I realize you are likely dealing with a franchise. But it seems inconceivable that they would arbitrarily ignore compelling evidence. If all else fails, call the local cops - Avis defrauded you.

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tyrion
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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by tyrion » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:44 pm

Do you have an access badge at work? My company logs all the badge swipes, which would be pretty compelling evidence that you were at work and not renting a car across the country.

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by bottlecap » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:48 pm

It sounds like you have this resolved. Hold tight.

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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by OnTrack » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:59 pm

p8bwd wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:42 pm
Last year I had a similar issue. During a trip to IKEA, I was erroneously charged for several hundred dollars worth of merchandise I did not intend to purchase. IKEA manager tried to reverse the charge on the same day, but it still eventually posted and I never received a credit. After several weeks of trying to resolve it on the merchant side, they told me to file a dispute with Chase. ...
:confused :oops: :annoyed

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2pedals
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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by 2pedals » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:15 pm

tibbitts wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:00 am
Jimmie wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:40 am
This was not fraud. It was a mistake on Avis' part. It would be their due diligence to contact the other party with a similar name to get this straightened out.

I travel lots for business. If I did not receive a receipt, I would question that omission. And, I would not be upset if I received a charge for a car I legitimately rented in the case it was overlooked weeks ago prior.

Keep pursuing this, but only with Avis. It was their mistake in posting a legitimate charge (not fraudulent) to the wrong person.
Yes, but I only learned this story long after the fact and concluded that it was likely not fraud, so I reported it initially as fraud and closed my card.

Initially Avis' position, until yesterday, was that I had to prove I was physically not in Atlantic City on the rental dates, and because for those three days I have no local receipts/charges/etc., other than me not having taken those days off from my employer and not being authorized to travel on those days, I have no proof where I was. If Chase had initially told me when I reported the issue that I had to prove where I was (30 minutes after the rental car was returned), I could have done that. They knew the story but didn't ask me for that.
It is not a "mistake" if Avis and Chase denied your complaint and continue to "fraudulently" insist on charging for a service or item you did not receive because of their error and unwillingness to resolve this issue.

I would follow up with a written and signed statement with an police report attached to both Avis and Chase. If this does not work you may need to file a complaint with the consumer financial protection bureau and/or file a complaint with the office of the attorney general in New Jersey.

MnD
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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by MnD » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:12 pm

Sounds like Avis sent Chase information that their standard Avis Preferred rental process was followed (which includes an ID check against the rental profile) and therefore they confirmed the OP was the renter, hence the fraud claim denial. Finally Avis has admitted they mixed up preferred renters profiles with the same last name) and is now correcting the charges. So I don't see what the problem is here other than mistakes happen and it's sometimes a pain and takes some time to get things resolved.

The speculation that Chase is now going to retroactively apply interest charges, despite the incoming Avis credit and will then refuse to remove them after the customer requests them to is just that - idle speculation. Mistakes happen and some people out there claiming credit card fraud are dishonest, hence I'm glad credit card companies don't just automatically take their customers word for it when the vendor provides information to the contrary.

I've never had a problem with Chase (we have six cards) in terms of overall customer service and their fraud detection and response is in my opinion first rate including avoiding false positives. Much better than a couple of other major credit card issuers and miles ahead of a card from our regional bank. Switching issuers or drastically lowering credit limits sounds like creating new problems over something that was annoying but has been resolved.

SrGrumpy
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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by SrGrumpy » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:23 pm

tyrion wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:44 pm
Do you have an access badge at work? My company logs all the badge swipes, which would be pretty compelling evidence that you were at work and not renting a car across the country.
Plus phone/computer usage records, credit card purchases. Maybe you went to an ATM - maybe a Chase one? - there will be footage of that. Work on the alibi, just like on crime TV shows.

euroswiss
Posts: 243
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Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by euroswiss » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:22 pm

Luckywon wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:39 am
Chase's position on this is absolutely apalling and shameful, on so many levels, IMO.

Ironically, just yesterday I applied for my first Chase credit ever, i.e. an Amazon Prime Rewards card. This story makes me think that was a mistake. I do buy a lot on Amazon so the 5 % back may still be too tempting to pass up. At the least, though, I will keep that credit card under lock and key and only use it for Amazon purchases. Maybe I will also ask for a low credit limit.

You should not have had to make the efforts you did to get this on the right track Kudos to you for persevering. It sounds like this will be resolved in your favor but if it does not I wonder if small claims court is an option, either suing Avis or Chase. Unfortunately, I think a lot of the contracts we are under are subject to arbitration.
You could ditch the new Amazon Chase Credit card and apply for the Amazon Store card (that is issued by Synchrony Bank) instead. It pays 5% cash-back also, but is good at Amazon only (which should be ok if that is all you use it for anyhow).

Retired2013
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 2:53 pm

Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by Retired2013 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:52 pm

MnD wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:12 pm
Sounds like Avis sent Chase information that their standard Avis Preferred rental process was followed (which includes an ID check against the rental profile) and therefore they confirmed the OP was the renter, hence the fraud claim denial. Finally Avis has admitted they mixed up preferred renters profiles with the same last name) and is now correcting the charges. So I don't see what the problem is here other than mistakes happen and it's sometimes a pain and takes some time to get things resolved.

The speculation that Chase is now going to retroactively apply interest charges, despite the incoming Avis credit and will then refuse to remove them after the customer requests them to is just that - idle speculation. Mistakes happen and some people out there claiming credit card fraud are dishonest, hence I'm glad credit card companies don't just automatically take their customers word for it when the vendor provides information to the contrary.

I've never had a problem with Chase (we have six cards) in terms of overall customer service and their fraud detection and response is in my opinion first rate including avoiding false positives. Much better than a couple of other major credit card issuers and miles ahead of a card from our regional bank. Switching issuers or drastically lowering credit limits sounds like creating new problems over something that was annoying but has been resolved.
+++1
This would have happen even if the credit card was Capital One, Amex or any other credit card.

The problem now is that Avis needs to charge the correct preferred renters profile and credit you back. Only Avis can do this. HOWEVER, since you and Chase cancelled the credit card that should be credited back, when Avis does this it will most likely REJECT at Chase. The credit card is CLOSED.

You might want to provide the new credit card number that should be credited back to head off any future problems.

z91
Posts: 400
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:19 pm

Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by z91 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:13 pm

Retired2013 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:52 pm
The problem now is that Avis needs to charge the correct preferred renters profile and credit you back. Only Avis can do this. HOWEVER, since you and Chase cancelled the credit card that should be credited back, when Avis does this it will most likely REJECT at Chase. The credit card is CLOSED.

You might want to provide the new credit card number that should be credited back to head off any future problems.
Visa provides an account updater service, which I assume Avis uses:
https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/ ... chants.pdf

So no, it won't get declined.

longleaf
Posts: 287
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:13 pm

Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by longleaf » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:13 pm

Guess I won't be getting a Chase card anytime soon, if ever. These anecdotes and the 5/24...no thanks.
Frugality, indexing, time.

z91
Posts: 400
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:19 pm

Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by z91 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:23 pm

longleaf wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:13 pm
Guess I won't be getting a Chase card anytime soon, if ever. These anecdotes and the 5/24...no thanks.
The anecdotes I can understand, but the 5/24 rule? Unless you are heavily involved in churning or do a lot of targeted spending, you won't ever hit their 5/24 limit.

Topic Author
tibbitts
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Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:50 pm

Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by tibbitts » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:03 pm

tyrion wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:44 pm
Do you have an access badge at work? My company logs all the badge swipes, which would be pretty compelling evidence that you were at work and not renting a car across the country.
I do have a badge and might be able to get access logs. I will investigate that. However They would only prove that my badge was at my workplace, not me. And I'm not sure that Chase really cares whether I was nowhere near the rental car or not, they did not give me an option to provide any evidence. It may be that their position is that since my car was on file, I was responsible for the charges for anyone renting a car using my profile.

Topic Author
tibbitts
Posts: 9196
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:50 pm

Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by tibbitts » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:05 pm

z91 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:13 pm
Retired2013 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:52 pm
The problem now is that Avis needs to charge the correct preferred renters profile and credit you back. Only Avis can do this. HOWEVER, since you and Chase cancelled the credit card that should be credited back, when Avis does this it will most likely REJECT at Chase. The credit card is CLOSED.

You might want to provide the new credit card number that should be credited back to head off any future problems.
Visa provides an account updater service, which I assume Avis uses:
https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/ ... chants.pdf

So no, it won't get declined.
My Citi double cash was in fact used for fraudulent charges last month. Citi blocked them and issued a new card, which has now received three refunds of purchases made with the previous card number.

Topic Author
tibbitts
Posts: 9196
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:50 pm

Re: Chase credit card dispute - denied

Post by tibbitts » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:12 pm

Nowizard wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:35 am
Check to be certain your comments are accurate, file a complaint and decide whether you want to stay with Chase. Sounds like you will be made whole other than for what would be an inconsequential interest charge. It is a difficult world out there to get to operate perfectly, and that is not going to change. You do have a choice of which imperfect credit card issuer you will use. Not an ideal outcome, but you seem to have done about all you can do. The part about your necessity of providing proof of your whereabouts at the time is confusing.

Tim
My original thought was that if I could prove I was 1000+ miles away from the rental Chase would consider that evidence that I didn't rent the car, but now I'm not sure they care whether I did or not, their position is that I'm responsible for it because my card was on file with Avis Preferred.

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