Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

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Gardener
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Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by Gardener » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:43 pm

Question:

Living in northeast, Approaching divorce with young child, Spouse wants to move back to home city in Southwest where spouse would earn same amount of income, but I would lose a significant amount of income in the southwest. What would be a fair split of assets be to compensate me, if I were to move to Southwest city, where for multiple reasons I do not want to go? Any thoughts, advice or guidance is greatly appreciated.


Finances:

I currently earn $120k- 80k from my job and 40k from a side business. I would also get a raise of about $15k in approximately 12-24 months, which would put total pay at $135k.

I would only earn ~75k in Southwest city and due to my side business being 100% geographic driven, would not be able to continue the side business in the new city.

Spouse currently earns $120k and would earn same amount in Southwest city .

Spouse and I own a home with approximately $200k equity (after all selling costs) that will need to be sold.
Spouse solely owns a condo that we lived in together in Southwest city, that spouse lived in before we married worth $75k, owe about $35k (40k equity), that no one is living in.
Joint Retirement Assets- ~380k
Non Tax Advantaged Mutual Funds- ~25k

One other note: Southwest city is low cost of living, where northeast city is high cost of living (about 18% higher cost of living).
Last edited by Gardener on Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

tim1999
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by tim1999 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:55 pm

I would suspect if a child is involved, and the child will be living with your ex-spouse going forward, a court is going to be telling you how you will be splitting assets, you won't be choosing.

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Gardener
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by Gardener » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:04 pm

Thanks Tim.

Just to clarify, the custody would be 50/50.

I'm still learning this. And spouse and I are in mediation. But, I believe court decides child support, but we can determine assets on our own- ie who gets the house, etc.

chevca
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by chevca » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:06 pm

Where was the child born, and where do you want the child to live?

I'm sure it's different state to state, but being divorced myself I know where we live the custodial parent can't just up and move like that without the court's permission. Even moving out of whatever school district the kid is in needs the court's approval. I think, I don't totally recall there. But, certainly can't up and move across the country.

Get a lawyer and the court involved here if you don't want the kid to move. I know the court will get involved, but, you know what I mean.

You should be able to just look up the county or state divorce forms where you live, and that stuff should be covered in the parenting agreement part.

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HomerJ
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by HomerJ » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:12 pm

Your future raise means nothing.

Your actual salary is about the same ($80k to $75k).

The only thing you are losing is your $40k side business.

I suspect your spouse is likely to say "Too bad, choose between seeing the kid more often or the money from the side business".

If you are super diplomatic about it, maybe you could get an extra $20k-$40k from the 50/50 split of the joint assets to compensate you slightly.

But I would suggest not going in demanding anything.
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Topic Author
Gardener
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by Gardener » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:17 pm

Thanks Homer.

How does future raise not mean anything? Its a fed job, and in the set up of my work, it is virtually guaranteed grade increase.

We married and had child in northeast city, where we all currently live.

Legally, I don't think spouse can decide and move to southwest city. Spouse is miserable here in northeast. I do not want to move to the southwest. To give up $40k a year in a side business I really enjoy is not insignificant to me.
Last edited by Gardener on Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dekecarver
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by dekecarver » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:20 pm

Wants to move and will be able to move are two very different things.

If you have her dead to rights, force the issue; if she has you dead to rights, well... If it's, we just don't get along; do the best you can for the sake of the child and your happiness.

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Gardener
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by Gardener » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:24 pm

The child is only 2 years old, a couple years away from starting school.

I am fairly certain that ex has no legal right to move to southwest city with child.

I would do what I could though to make her happy to move to that city. I would just want a larger chunk of assets, to make up for the fact that I would be losing lucrative side business and a raise in the next 12-24 months.

chevca
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by chevca » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:30 pm

Gardener wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:17 pm
Thanks Homer.

How does future raise not mean anything? Its a fed job, and in the set up of my work, it is virtually guaranteed grade increase.

We married and had child in northeast city, where we all currently live.

Legally, I don't think spouse can decide and move to southwest city. Spouse is miserable here in northeast. I do not want to move to the southwest. To give up $40k a year in a side business I really enjoy is not insignificant to me.
Virtually guaranteed is not the same as actually guaranteed. Even then, the future isn't factored into the divorce proceedings. It's the present that everything is based off of. Want things to change in the future... guess what? You get to go back to court.

It sounds like you both want different things about where to live. Without knowing your state set up about that stuff, I'd guess you have the upper hand having married and had the kid there. It's the only place the kid has lived. How much do you want to dig in? How willing are you really to go to the southwest?

Where is the rest of the family/relatives?

As someone mentioned above, be sure to keep the happiness of the child in mind. It's easy to lose sight of that while the divorce is going on and fresh. If your sole reason to stay in the northeast is money,..... I'd really think long and hard about that.

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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by 4nursebee » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:30 pm

I read the question as how much should I get paid to move? Kind of reads like how much will you pay me to continue to see my child?

Without knowing the rest of the situation this is really a crappy selfish kind of thing to ask.

Regardless, not enough info. I'd suggest professional legal advice.
4nursebee

randomguy
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by randomguy » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:33 pm

Gardener wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:17 pm
Thanks Homer.

How does future raise not mean anything? Its a fed job, and in the set up of my work, it is virtually guaranteed grade increase.

We married and had child in northeast city, where we all currently live.

Legally, I don't think spouse can decide and move to southwest city. Spouse is miserable here in northeast. I do not want to move to the southwest. To give up $40k a year in a side business I really enjoy is not insignificant to me.
You need to talk to a lawyer and know what your rights are in your state. She might need a court order to move more than X miles by default. You can override that in your agreement if you want.

You can both ask for anything. Your lawyer can tell you what a court normally does in your state. You could definitely make a good arguement for alimony and child support that your income should be 75k and not 120k. If the ex is going to agree to accept that and pay you money is impossible to say.

petulant
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by petulant » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:33 pm

Without any agreement and you want to stay in NE, spouse would have to go to court and convince the judge that spouse is so much better for child that the spouse should uproot the child and take the child away from you and everything else there, except perhaps for summer visits. If spouse loses, spouse will have to stay in NE or move without the child. That risk gives you leverage.

I would suggest you make it clear to spouse that you are willing to move to SW to be near child, but you don't want to move and it's only happening for spouse. You would be giving up your life in NE and your business, however, so you need consideration from the assets and a lot of cooperation on custody.

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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by stoptothink » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:34 pm

4nursebee wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:30 pm
I read the question as how much should I get paid to move? Kind of reads like how much will you pay me to continue to see my child?

Without knowing the rest of the situation this is really a crappy selfish kind of thing to ask.

Regardless, not enough info. I'd suggest professional legal advice.
Huh? Sounds like a pretty selfish thing to do on the other spouse's part, they should not put the OP in this position. How does this move benefit the child?
Last edited by stoptothink on Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jodydavis
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by jodydavis » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:34 pm

At a first approximation, take the net present value of the annual salary difference (after taxes) over the length of the period you intend to still work. That is what he/she is asking you to give up. Of course, that's a really rough approximation: doesn't take into account all sorts of possibilities, like change in job, new opportunities, etc. But that would be a first cut. And it also doesn't address all of the bigger picture questions (e.g. what's best for the child, whether you will be happy in the SW, etc.).
Last edited by jodydavis on Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

chevca
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by chevca » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:35 pm

Another part to factor in, and I'm not exactly sure how it would work, but if you guys divorce in the northeast and then all move to the southwest, that could really make any future court proceedings complicated. I don't know that the southwest state just steps in and says, we got this. They could be like, yeah, not our mess to clean up. Again, I'm not sure on that though.

chevca
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by chevca » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:41 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:34 pm
4nursebee wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:30 pm
I read the question as how much should I get paid to move? Kind of reads like how much will you pay me to continue to see my child?

Without knowing the rest of the situation this is really a crappy selfish kind of thing to ask.

Regardless, not enough info. I'd suggest professional legal advice.
Huh? Sounds like a pretty selfish thing to do on the other spouse's part, they should not put the OP in this position. How does this move benefit the child?
I can see it being selfish either way...

Is OP from the NE and lots of family there, lived in the SW for a bit, they met there, and then moved back to the NE to be by family and more money?

Are the OP and soon to ex from the SW, met there, and only moved to the NE so OP could make more money with no family around?

Divorce RARELY benefits the child except for the worst case abusive situations. :wink:

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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by randomguy » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:43 pm

4nursebee wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:30 pm
I read the question as how much should I get paid to move? Kind of reads like how much will you pay me to continue to see my child?

Without knowing the rest of the situation this is really a crappy selfish kind of thing to ask.

Regardless, not enough info. I'd suggest professional legal advice.
Is it more or less selfish than asking someone to move 1000s of miles from where they are happy and asking them to cut their income by 1/3rd? That seems a lot more selfish.

Personally I think assigning emotions like that to be useless. They need to come up with some solution that works for both of them. What that is dependa on how flexible they both are. Maybe she pays him 20k/year for 5 years and that gives gim time to start another side bussiness. Maybe they dont move.

chevca
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by chevca » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:45 pm

jodydavis wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:34 pm
At a first approximation, take the net present value of the annual salary difference (after taxes) over the length of the period you intend to still work. That is what he/she is asking you to give up. Of course, that's a really rough approximation: doesn't take into account all sorts of possibilities, like change in job, new opportunities, etc. But that would be a first cut. And it also doesn't address all of the bigger picture questions (e.g. what's best for the child, whether you will be happy in the SW, etc.).
Yeah, doesn't work that way.

That sounds like alimony figures.

If the OP is getting divorced in the NE, that's what the divorce will be based off of. No future possible moves to the SW and whatever future employment there would be figured in. The court is going to be like, NO, we will go off what we know now. Future things can be dealt with in the future.

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StevieG72
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by StevieG72 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:46 pm

I went through a divorce about 10 years ago.

I can offer the following.....

If you and your spouse can reach an agreement on property settlement the courts don't need to get involved other than to finalize the agreement. It is in your best interest to reach an amicable agreement vs. letting the courts decide.

Custody and child support can always be revisited until the child is 18.

My ex and I decided on what was fair in regards to property settlement, and custody 50/50, child support was calculated based on income.

If you have any assets that you can not agree upon splitting give the assets to the child in the from of funding a 529. Great opportunity to take advantage of getting funds in an account, and at her age it will have plenty of time to grow.

It is very unfortunate for the child if both parents don't live within close proximity. Hopefully the two of you will work something out and will have a great co-parenting relationship.

Lastly, it is not always about what is fair, but what is best for the child. I have a few circumstances with my ex that are not "fair" but big picture all I care about is my kiddo.
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chevca
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by chevca » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:47 pm

OP, you really need to get lawyers involved here. If there are things you don't agree on like where to live and how to split assets, you need more than just mediation. JMHO

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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by jodydavis » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:54 pm

chevca wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:45 pm
jodydavis wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:34 pm
At a first approximation, take the net present value of the annual salary difference (after taxes) over the length of the period you intend to still work. That is what he/she is asking you to give up. Of course, that's a really rough approximation: doesn't take into account all sorts of possibilities, like change in job, new opportunities, etc. But that would be a first cut. And it also doesn't address all of the bigger picture questions (e.g. what's best for the child, whether you will be happy in the SW, etc.).
Yeah, doesn't work that way.

That sounds like alimony figures.

If the OP is getting divorced in the NE, that's what the divorce will be based off of. No future possible moves to the SW and whatever future employment there would be figured in. The court is going to be like, NO, we will go off what we know now. Future things can be dealt with in the future.
Well, yeah, but the OP wasn't asking what the courts would do. I was assuming that there would be no move without the OP's consent (which is what the OP seems to be assuming, if you read the thread). The question was what would be a fair amount to agree to (I'm assuming via mediation) to consent to both moving to the SW. Not saying that the above methodology gives rise to a "fair" amount. Just trying to assess the economic cost to the OP of what the spouse is proposing.

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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by stoptothink » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:56 pm

chevca wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:47 pm
OP, you really need to get lawyers involved here. If there are things you don't agree on like where to live and how to split assets, you need more than just mediation. JMHO
Anecdotally, my sister is in a somewhat similar situation in California. She has a 4yr old daughter and the father is a criminal who has, up until about a year ago, had almost zero relationship with the child and not helped with support. My sister works 2 jobs and lives in a garage apartment which isn't even a legal residence; it's all she can afford. If she moved to Utah, she could move into my mother's home and I could get her a much better job, and she would be around family, but because my sister has been unable to get full custody, the courts will not allow her to move. She's basically crossing her finger's and waiting for baby daddy to get thrown in prison again.

Obviously the best case scenario is an amicable split, but if the courts get involved, it is very likely that the courts don't allow OP's spouse to move out of state.

chevca
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by chevca » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:59 pm

I saw what you were doing, jody. But, it ultimately comes down to exactly what the courts would do or allow. So,...

I don't see any court agreeing to or allowing. we both agree to move, will make we think this amount, so we will split current assets this way. Nope, sorry. Not in my experience anyway.

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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by Olemiss540 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:01 pm

4nursebee wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:30 pm
I read the question as how much should I get paid to move? Kind of reads like how much will you pay me to continue to see my child?

Without knowing the rest of the situation this is really a crappy selfish kind of thing to ask.

Regardless, not enough info. I'd suggest professional legal advice.
I read it more like "How much should I get paid to allow my spouse and child to move". Big difference IMO.
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chevca
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by chevca » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:03 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:56 pm
chevca wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:47 pm
OP, you really need to get lawyers involved here. If there are things you don't agree on like where to live and how to split assets, you need more than just mediation. JMHO
Anecdotally, my sister is in a somewhat similar situation in California. She has a 4yr old daughter and the father is a criminal who has, up until about a year ago, had almost zero relationship with the child and not helped with support. My sister works 2 jobs and lives in a garage apartment which isn't even a legal residence; it's all she can afford. If she moved to Utah, she could move into my mother's home and I could get her a much better job, and she would be around family, but because my sister has been unable to get full custody, the courts will not allow her to move. She's basically crossing her finger's and waiting for baby daddy to get thrown in prison again.

Obviously the best case scenario is an amicable split, but if the courts get involved, it is very likely that the courts don't allow OP's spouse to move out of state.
I would say that's nowhere near similar to what the OP is describing. :happy

But even in that one, look how difficult custody and moving issues can be. Even when it's a no doubter.

Although, I'm going to guess there was no marriage and divorce in your sister's situation? I think that seems to make things more organized when that stuff is involved.

chevca
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by chevca » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:06 pm

Olemiss540 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:01 pm
4nursebee wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:30 pm
I read the question as how much should I get paid to move? Kind of reads like how much will you pay me to continue to see my child?

Without knowing the rest of the situation this is really a crappy selfish kind of thing to ask.

Regardless, not enough info. I'd suggest professional legal advice.
I read it more like "How much should I get paid to allow my spouse and child to move". Big difference IMO.
Mmm, not really. Both ways are the OP asking, what's in it for me? The OP doesn't want them to move, they said that in this one. The difference is only in wording beyond that.

stimulacra
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by stimulacra » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:11 pm

Get a lawyer and stop asking for divorce advice on a website where it's easy for your soon-to-be ex, her attorney, or CPS to track usernames and screenshot conversation threads. Your question sounds benign enough but I can see a dozen different ways where someone can take your statements out of context and imply you do not have your child's best interest in heart in a family court or arbitration.

In many states there's no such thing as joint custody, and in many cases they distinguish between physical and legal custody. If you guys have 50/50 physical custody but one parent has sole legal custody, guess which parent has the tiebreaker in any disagreement or conflict?

Different states have different child custody laws. If your ex-spouse takes your child to a state where custody laws are very different (with Northeast to Southwest move) this is likely.

Hire a lawyer and stop posting about your upcoming divorce under your current username.

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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by bottlecap » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:12 pm

Do you have a lawyer? I think you need one.

Your spouse is essentially forcing you to move. By planning the move to a LCOL area before the divorce is final, your spouse may set you up to pay way more than your fair share.

My fear would be paying child support and alimony based on the present income and then having to moving to where my income is reduced another 40 to 50%. Then you need to keep paying based on your old income or pay an attorney to get it revised based on the move.

If you are going to be paying these things, you are in a precarious situation at present. Don't go it alone.

JT

pdavi21
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by pdavi21 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:18 pm

Sounds like you both care about money more than custody. (Spouse willing to move for more money and you asking for divorce money to move).

Perhaps one of you is willing to give up custody for more money.
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chevca
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by chevca » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:20 pm

bottlecap wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:12 pm
Do you have a lawyer? I think you need one.

Your spouse is essentially forcing you to move. By planning the move to a LCOL area before the divorce is final, your spouse may set you up to pay way more than your fair share.

My fear would be paying child support and alimony based on the present income and then having to moving to where my income is reduced another 40 to 50%. Then you need to keep paying based on your old income or pay an attorney to get it revised based on the move.

If you are going to be paying these things, you are in a precarious situation at present. Don't go it alone.

JT
This is a very good point to bring up. They make about the same money, so I don't see any alimony involved. Likely very little child support either making similar money and if it really ends up being 50/50 custody. But, OP is set to make $45k or so less if they make the move and soon to be ex continues to make the same. OP would get child support then if it were 50/50 custody.

Also likely why the current state in the NE is likely to say, yeah, we're not dealing with that here.

chevca
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by chevca » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:22 pm

pdavi21 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:18 pm
Sounds like you both care about money more than custody. (Spouse willing to move for more money and you asking for divorce money to move).

Perhaps one of you is willing to give up custody for more money.
Well, spouse makes $120k in the NE and would make the same in the SW, so.........

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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by Olemiss540 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:44 pm

chevca wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:06 pm
Olemiss540 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:01 pm
4nursebee wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:30 pm
I read the question as how much should I get paid to move? Kind of reads like how much will you pay me to continue to see my child?

Without knowing the rest of the situation this is really a crappy selfish kind of thing to ask.

Regardless, not enough info. I'd suggest professional legal advice.
I read it more like "How much should I get paid to allow my spouse and child to move". Big difference IMO.
Mmm, not really. Both ways are the OP asking, what's in it for me? The OP doesn't want them to move, they said that in this one. The difference is only in wording beyond that.
Because the OP should agree to relocate his/her family just because their ex-spouse wants to live somewhere else? I know I would be very hesitant to relocate my family and leave my 2 jobs because my ex spouse WANTED to.

Why should the family move in the first place? Definately not for better paying jobs.
Last edited by Olemiss540 on Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by Carefreeap » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:45 pm

OP,

Does spouse have family in Southwest which will be helping with daycare?

Daycare costs in HCOLA areas could effectively reduce a salary by $20k/yr.

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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by stoptothink » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:25 pm

chevca wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:03 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:56 pm
chevca wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:47 pm
OP, you really need to get lawyers involved here. If there are things you don't agree on like where to live and how to split assets, you need more than just mediation. JMHO
Anecdotally, my sister is in a somewhat similar situation in California. She has a 4yr old daughter and the father is a criminal who has, up until about a year ago, had almost zero relationship with the child and not helped with support. My sister works 2 jobs and lives in a garage apartment which isn't even a legal residence; it's all she can afford. If she moved to Utah, she could move into my mother's home and I could get her a much better job, and she would be around family, but because my sister has been unable to get full custody, the courts will not allow her to move. She's basically crossing her finger's and waiting for baby daddy to get thrown in prison again.

Obviously the best case scenario is an amicable split, but if the courts get involved, it is very likely that the courts don't allow OP's spouse to move out of state.
I would say that's nowhere near similar to what the OP is describing. :happy

But even in that one, look how difficult custody and moving issues can be. Even when it's a no doubter.

Although, I'm going to guess there was no marriage and divorce in your sister's situation? I think that seems to make things more organized when that stuff is involved.
It's similar in the fact that if it goes to court, there is a not much higher than zero chance OP's spouse is allowed to move with the child unless they are granted full custody. It is not the OP wanting to uproot the child simply because they "want to".

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leeks
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by leeks » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:54 pm

The money doesn't matter compared to the drastic changes happening in your life. The situation you describe means you will both make enough money to get by in either place. There will be no fairness to anyone in any way if there is a divorce involving a child. Let go of the idea of fairness.

Figure out the plan that optimizes chance of happiness for all three if you. If your spouse is miserable in Northeast, could that be part of what brought the relationship to a crisis? Is there any hope that moving to another state could give your marriage another chance? If so (and you can tolerate trying the new place), I would move and do everything possible to try to make it work. Is there some third location you could consider that has a chance of working for you both? You obviously need to live in the same city as your spouse and child (and it does sound like that is what you are trying to acheive).

If you created one successful side gig, you can probably create another different one somewhere else, it may just take time.

The expensive choice is getting divorced, your incomes supporting two households instead of one. The lifetime financial hit of that choice to separate would far outweigh the loss of your current side gig.

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leeks
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by leeks » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:20 pm

chevca wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:59 pm
I saw what you were doing, jody. But, it ultimately comes down to exactly what the courts would do or allow. So,...

I don't see any court agreeing to or allowing. we both agree to move, will make we think this amount, so we will split current assets this way. Nope, sorry. Not in my experience anyway.
So if they could agree on everything, why deal with a court? Couldn't they just move, live separately in the new city, split custody and finances as agreed upon? If they ever needed a formal divorce (to remarry I guess), do it in the new state?

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by Doom&Gloom » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:22 pm

Olemiss540 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:44 pm
chevca wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:06 pm
Olemiss540 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:01 pm
4nursebee wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:30 pm
I read the question as how much should I get paid to move? Kind of reads like how much will you pay me to continue to see my child?

Without knowing the rest of the situation this is really a crappy selfish kind of thing to ask.

Regardless, not enough info. I'd suggest professional legal advice.
I read it more like "How much should I get paid to allow my spouse and child to move". Big difference IMO.
Mmm, not really. Both ways are the OP asking, what's in it for me? The OP doesn't want them to move, they said that in this one. The difference is only in wording beyond that.
Because the OP should agree to relocate his/her family just because their ex-spouse wants to live somewhere else? I know I would be very hesitant to relocate my family and leave my 2 jobs because my ex spouse WANTED to.

Why should the family move in the first place? Definately not for better paying jobs.
+1

Sounds like the tail wagging the dog here. All that is missing is Monty Hall.

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8foot7
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by 8foot7 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:24 pm

I will echo you need a lawyer because if you do not attempt to stop your soon to be ex from moving before the divorce is final, then you will probably not be able to force her to move back. The court can enforce a temporary order of custody that effectively prevents her from moving and that can be granted fairly quickly if you present evidence she is likely to try to leave with your child. You have a lot of leverage now—courts like status quo, they like parents in the same place, they like children sharing time with parents as equally as makes sense.

If you allow such a move to take place unchallenged, you will lose all of that leverage. There is no judge in the world that will make her move back to your area after she has already left and presumably gotten a job , and very few judges would then tear the child away from the mother to give the child to you full time. You’ll be left with either rarely seeing your child, or moving anyway.

You need to be in a lawyer’s office next week looking to get in front of a judge to make it clear you do not approve of a move. Once you exercise this leverage then you can figure out if there is an asset split that would make it more feasible to you to move alongside your ex.
Last edited by 8foot7 on Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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BolderBoy
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by BolderBoy » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:24 pm

Gardener wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:43 pm
Approaching divorce with young child...
Many or most jurisdictions require that lawyers be involved in divorces if there are minor children. The lawyers will sort this out.

IANAL.
"Never underestimate one's capacity to overestimate one's abilities" - The Dunning-Kruger Effect

michaeljc70
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by michaeljc70 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:48 pm

The court is not going to guess what your future raises would be or what you and your spouses potential future salaries in another city would be. As others said, I would talk to an attorney as spouse wanting to move changes the dynamic a lot.

chevca
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by chevca » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:55 pm

leeks wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:20 pm
chevca wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:59 pm
I saw what you were doing, jody. But, it ultimately comes down to exactly what the courts would do or allow. So,...

I don't see any court agreeing to or allowing. we both agree to move, will make we think this amount, so we will split current assets this way. Nope, sorry. Not in my experience anyway.
So if they could agree on everything, why deal with a court? Couldn't they just move, live separately in the new city, split custody and finances as agreed upon? If they ever needed a formal divorce (to remarry I guess), do it in the new state?
Absolutely, they could do that.

chevca
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by chevca » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:57 pm

Doom&Gloom wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:22 pm
Olemiss540 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:44 pm
chevca wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:06 pm
Olemiss540 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:01 pm
4nursebee wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:30 pm
I read the question as how much should I get paid to move? Kind of reads like how much will you pay me to continue to see my child?

Without knowing the rest of the situation this is really a crappy selfish kind of thing to ask.

Regardless, not enough info. I'd suggest professional legal advice.
I read it more like "How much should I get paid to allow my spouse and child to move". Big difference IMO.
Mmm, not really. Both ways are the OP asking, what's in it for me? The OP doesn't want them to move, they said that in this one. The difference is only in wording beyond that.
Because the OP should agree to relocate his/her family just because their ex-spouse wants to live somewhere else? I know I would be very hesitant to relocate my family and leave my 2 jobs because my ex spouse WANTED to.

Why should the family move in the first place? Definately not for better paying jobs.
+1

Sounds like the tail wagging the dog here. All that is missing is Monty Hall.
Sounds like the dog letting the tail wag it to me. :happy

Why doesn't the OP just say, no, not moving. Why is there even a, maybe, just depends on what I get out of it?

michaeljc70
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by michaeljc70 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:37 pm

chevca wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:57 pm
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:22 pm
Olemiss540 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:44 pm
chevca wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:06 pm
Olemiss540 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:01 pm


I read it more like "How much should I get paid to allow my spouse and child to move". Big difference IMO.
Mmm, not really. Both ways are the OP asking, what's in it for me? The OP doesn't want them to move, they said that in this one. The difference is only in wording beyond that.
Because the OP should agree to relocate his/her family just because their ex-spouse wants to live somewhere else? I know I would be very hesitant to relocate my family and leave my 2 jobs because my ex spouse WANTED to.

Why should the family move in the first place? Definately not for better paying jobs.
+1

Sounds like the tail wagging the dog here. All that is missing is Monty Hall.
Sounds like the dog letting the tail wag it to me. :happy

Why doesn't the OP just say, no, not moving. Why is there even a, maybe, just depends on what I get out of it?
If the OP really doesn't want to move, why wouldn't they use that as leverage? Things like this are used in divorces everyday. People have spent tens of thousands on legal fees fighting over a cat they didn't even really want.

chevca
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by chevca » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:52 pm

michaeljc70 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:37 pm
chevca wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:57 pm
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:22 pm
Olemiss540 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:44 pm
chevca wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:06 pm


Mmm, not really. Both ways are the OP asking, what's in it for me? The OP doesn't want them to move, they said that in this one. The difference is only in wording beyond that.
Because the OP should agree to relocate his/her family just because their ex-spouse wants to live somewhere else? I know I would be very hesitant to relocate my family and leave my 2 jobs because my ex spouse WANTED to.

Why should the family move in the first place? Definately not for better paying jobs.
+1

Sounds like the tail wagging the dog here. All that is missing is Monty Hall.
Sounds like the dog letting the tail wag it to me. :happy

Why doesn't the OP just say, no, not moving. Why is there even a, maybe, just depends on what I get out of it?
If the OP really doesn't want to move, why wouldn't they use that as leverage? Things like this are used in divorces everyday. People have spent tens of thousands on legal fees fighting over a cat they didn't even really want.
I've already said the OP has the upper hand since they already live where the OP wants to. So, if you've read the thread, I'm not sure what you're asking me? :happy

Without hearing more from the OP, we're all assuming anyway.

aristotelian
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by aristotelian » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:01 pm

Gardener wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:24 pm
The child is only 2 years old, a couple years away from starting school.

I am fairly certain that ex has no legal right to move to southwest city with child.

I would do what I could though to make her happy to move to that city. I would just want a larger chunk of assets, to make up for the fact that I would be losing lucrative side business and a raise in the next 12-24 months.
I don't see a fair way to compensate you. A $40K income stream over say 10 years could be worth $1M. You would be taking a pay cut on top of that, worth a similar amount. She could give you 100% of the current assets and it would not be enough. I think you just decide whether you want to support her in moving or not, forget about being compensated for it.

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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by EddyB » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:05 pm

4nursebee wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:30 pm
I read the question as how much should I get paid to move? Kind of reads like how much will you pay me to continue to see my child?

Without knowing the rest of the situation this is really a crappy selfish kind of thing to ask.

Regardless, not enough info. I'd suggest professional legal advice.
Rather, how much should I get paid not to object to the former spouse relocating the child from its home so far.

michaeljc70
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by michaeljc70 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:42 pm

chevca wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:52 pm
michaeljc70 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:37 pm
chevca wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:57 pm
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:22 pm
Olemiss540 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:44 pm


Because the OP should agree to relocate his/her family just because their ex-spouse wants to live somewhere else? I know I would be very hesitant to relocate my family and leave my 2 jobs because my ex spouse WANTED to.

Why should the family move in the first place? Definately not for better paying jobs.
+1

Sounds like the tail wagging the dog here. All that is missing is Monty Hall.
Sounds like the dog letting the tail wag it to me. :happy

Why doesn't the OP just say, no, not moving. Why is there even a, maybe, just depends on what I get out of it?
If the OP really doesn't want to move, why wouldn't they use that as leverage? Things like this are used in divorces everyday. People have spent tens of thousands on legal fees fighting over a cat they didn't even really want.
I've already said the OP has the upper hand since they already live where the OP wants to. So, if you've read the thread, I'm not sure what you're asking me? :happy

Without hearing more from the OP, we're all assuming anyway.
I was just chiming in on the whole quoted conversation. I don't know who is wagging or tailing what. :shock:

I agree with you. It is highly unlikely (as I said above) the court is going to get into theoreticals over what salaries would be in the future in city X vs y or what a side business is worth in city x vs y. All this can be negotiated in advance though and not left to the court (except for approval).

fru-gal
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by fru-gal » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:33 pm

chevca wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:06 pm
I'm sure it's different state to state, but being divorced myself I know where we live the custodial parent can't just up and move like that without the court's permission. Even moving out of whatever school district the kid is in needs the court's approval. I think, I don't totally recall there. But, certainly can't up and move across the country.
This.

Starfish
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by Starfish » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:48 pm

4nursebee wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:30 pm
I read the question as how much should I get paid to move? Kind of reads like how much will you pay me to continue to see my child?

Without knowing the rest of the situation this is really a crappy selfish kind of thing to ask.

Regardless, not enough info. I'd suggest professional legal advice.
It's exactly the opposite.
What if you spouse divorced and decided to move to China?

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celia
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Re: Divorce w/child. Spouse wants to move.

Post by celia » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:48 am

Gardener wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:43 pm
One other note: Southwest city is low cost of living, where northeast city is high cost of living (about 18% higher cost of living).
I think the cost of living may (or may not) be relevant.

Say, for calculation purposes, you moved to the SW, but stayed married. Your (joint) cost of living would be less. What costs about $120K in the NE would cost about $100K in the SW. So if your new salary is less by the same percentage compared to what you have now, you (individually) would be coming out even. The fact that former-spouse comes out ahead (gets the same salary but has lower expenses), should be considered irrelevant.

But after the divorce, when you no longer live together, you will each have your own living expenses. It should be lower for each of you compared to your current living expenses. But the total you will pay, when added together, will be more than your current living expenses.

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