Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Post Reply
User avatar
Topic Author
beyou
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:57 pm
Location: Northeastern US

Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by beyou » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:16 pm

Some background. Nearing FIRE I think. Turning 55 this year, likely to either be laid off or given one last chance to agree to a relocation to a place I would rather not move. Nothing wrong with the destination except I know nobody there, and I am sure my spouse would be unhappy with the move. Not excited to sell my home, move to another city, one that I don't plan to retire in, only to move again maybe 2-5 years down the road. That said, did not want to retire until closer to 60. I was considering retiring in place in my HCOL, I like it where I am. No mortgage but high taxes and other expenses in this area. Also kids likely to stay closer to my current home than destination of the relocation.

Just finishing paying for college, was hoping to add to the nest egg before retiring, and use my brain a few more years.
That said, getting sick of corp politics, backstabbing, auditors, corp reorgs, restructuring, relocation....generally being treated like
expensive furniture. Most career options would include more of that, but I have worked in small firms with less of these issues (but there is always some of that). With highly specialized skills, I can't necessarily be so choosy about location, going to a comparable job might well involve relocation, or
accepting something very different (lower pay maybe). But if i relocate, thinking is that I should go where I want, not where my employer wants to go, or stay put and wait for something that will pay for medical care and some cash flow until I retire, in a location I am happy.

I have some existing financial incentives to stay to the bitter end (likely severance, deferred comp that can be lost should I go to a competitor now).
Not likely to be offered any medical care beyond Cobra. The cash sev/def comp may add up to a year's pay or less. That said, I know it's easier to find a job when you have one, but having to work a year to make what I can make while semi/temporarily retired...seems tempting. May give me a taste of retirement for a few months to confirm if I want to go back to work or not.

I purposely didn't include net worth. Let's say I feel I have enough to live on but not enough to live without fear of sequence of return risks.
Was hoping to pad the nest egg mainly for protection against sequence of return risk, help get me closer to Medicare/SS before I stop working.
10 years seems a long time to go without employer medical care and earned income.

Any suggestions to help prepare, decide on next steps, are welcome.

barnaclebob
Posts: 3186
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by barnaclebob » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:19 pm

Did you factor staying until they fire you, then collecting unemployment into your calcs?

What about keeping your house and sticking it out in a bare bones apartment in the new location for a couple more years then coming back?

Can you use your brain in a lower paying job in your current location?
Last edited by barnaclebob on Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jack FFR1846
Posts: 8312
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:05 am

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:21 pm

#1: Talk with the wife about this. Everything you said here and more. Her input is very important and you shouldn't be making a decision without her.

Try to write down plusses and minuses along with concerns.
Last edited by Jack FFR1846 on Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

livesoft
Posts: 64130
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by livesoft » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:21 pm

If your spouse is not working at least part-time, then preparation for your situation is for her to desire to get a job and get a job.
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

btenny
Posts: 4672
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:47 pm

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by btenny » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:42 pm

Move but don't move. Confusing yea. But I think you need to agree to move and work at the new location. Get as many details on what the company will pay you to move. Ask for extra pay to move. How will they cover moving expenses? Will they increase your salary? Will they give you some guaranteed medical benefits? Stock options? Better retirement benefits?

Then take all these benefits and work at the new location for a year or two or three. Rent an apartment or buy a RV and live in it part time. But keep your current home and travel back home every 1-2 weeks for 4 days or so. Then work from you current home two of those travel days via internet and home office. Then repeat.

I bet you will be fine doing this since your kids are grown. You might find you like it. Then after a year or two you can decide if you want to find a new job or just keep working or retire.

I know several guys who do not live where they work. In this modern connected world it is really easy to just fly in to your job on Monday and out on Thursday evening and then work from home on Friday. Or take your wife with you and stay 10 days and work over the weekend. Then go home for 4-6 days. These people just have long commutes and they make it work.

Good Luck.

User avatar
Summit111
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:32 pm

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by Summit111 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:43 pm

That said, getting sick of corp politics, backstabbing, auditors, corp reorgs, restructuring, relocation..generally being treated like
expensive furniture.
Been there ...done that... Survived 40 years with Mega Corp with 4 changes in ownership and numerous management changes. Never missed a paycheck or was layed off in all those years. I was in a specialized engineering role and was never removed or relocated....

My DW retired from a State Medical School faculty position after 38 years...whenever I was approached about relocating to another part of the country my response was the same...Thanks for the offer, but WE would not relocate. Worked for us.

As it were, several of our close friends relocated due to the husbands job, and the the wives generally hated and resented pulling up stakes and rebuilding their lives and careers....

In retrospect, we are glad we did what we did...

Summit

go_mets
Posts: 361
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:49 am

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by go_mets » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:53 pm

Seems to me the preparation should be for the worst case scenario of being laid off.
The relocation at least means you have money coming.

If offered relocation, ae they giving you a lump-sum?
If so how much? That money can be for whatever you want.

I once had a colleague who got a lump sum.
He never did use the money to move his family to Pennsylvania.
He simply commuted from Maryland every week and stayed at a motel where he owner gave him favorable rates.
After a year, he left and went back to Maryland which was probably his intention all along.
His wife a dentist and his children had stayed behind in their house in Maryland.

User avatar
Topic Author
beyou
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:57 pm
Location: Northeastern US

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by beyou » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:08 pm

Thanks for the responses so far. Clearly more info is warranted.

I have thought about doing a lengthy commute for a couple of years but ...

The relocation is far enough away that there would be plane tickets involved to shuttle back and forth, not a reasonable distance to drive
on a weekly basis. The city selected was touted as a much lower cost of living, but this is not the case I think. Partly because I have practiced
LBYM in my HCOL area, live in a modest home with a long commute (which helped me to payoff the mortgage fairly young). The destination city is a "hot" city and apartments there cost more than my property taxes on my paid for home. I don't want to buy a house in the suburbs "temporarily" in a new city while keeping my current home now, but renting there is really expensive. The state has a LCOL but it's the most expensive city in a low cost state. No state income tax but otherwise urban living with all the costs.

Wife has a career and while she is a secondary (much lower) income for us, she derives great satisfaction from her work and would have trouble
starting over again in anyplace out of state. She is licensed in our state and has a network of colleagues and clients that continually refer business to her. She gets no paid medical benefits, though we could consider full pay for her employer's plan vs Cobra vs ACA for healthcare if I choose to retire.
The main issue here is her satisfaction with work, and local family/friends. I have even more family locally than her, but much of both our families are already relocated over the years.

As to company incentives to move, there is some relocation assistance that is scaled to your corporate title.
Top execs getting big bucks to move, more of an incentive bonus, but middle mgmt and below is just getting relocation assistance.
I never found out the exact $ as the move is in waves and I indicated I did not want to be in the first wave, but from what I hear it was poor
and many complained it didn't even compensate them for their true cost of relocation.

So in summary, wife loves low paid job, I no longer love (but don't hate) my high paid job.
No family or friends in the new city. Expensive to commute/relocate.

If management understood what their employees actually do, I would be more valuable to my long time employer than anyone else,
and they would want to find a way to retain me. They are keeping a small number of employees in my home city but they don't want to do so for people in my department and most departments. I am hoping they change their minds, or at least make me an offer I can't refuse to move. There is a price we can be bought, but not likely to get that offer. In the mean time I am turning away feelers for other job options due to either also requiring relocation or even if local, same/lower paying in some cases. Want to squeeze what I can out of my current employer, but suddenly it seems to be less than I had expected (shorter time frame to relocation/layoff than previously indicated).

I have gone through relo/mergers etc before but this is the first time i was so near to retirement I can taste it.
Feels good to even consider that as an option, but feels wrong to retire at 55 from a well paying career.

User avatar
greg24
Posts: 3354
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:34 am

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by greg24 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:15 pm

btenny wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:42 pm
Move but don't move.
I would strongly consider this advice. Even if you only make it 6 months, that is 6 more months of salary, and 6 less months of health insurance uncertainty.

barnaclebob
Posts: 3186
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by barnaclebob » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:43 pm

beyou wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:08 pm
The relocation is far enough away that there would be plane tickets involved to shuttle back and forth, not a reasonable distance to drive
on a weekly basis.
How convenient of flights are there? Once you get status on an airline, flying is actually pretty relaxing for the most part.

DesertDiva
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:49 pm

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by DesertDiva » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:46 pm

Will they let you work remotely? :?:
♫ Stocks go up ♫ Stocks go down ♫ Stocks go up ♫ Stocks go down ♫

malabargold
Posts: 507
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:16 am

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by malabargold » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:48 pm

No magic solution.
Something has to give.
Better for you to decide what that will be than a forum.

Iridium
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 10:49 am

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by Iridium » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:55 pm

beyou wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:08 pm
In the mean time I am turning away feelers for other job options due to either also requiring relocation or even if local, same/lower paying in some cases.
If you get a feeler for a local job at similar pay, that sounds like the ideal solution. You are just looking to maintain status quo and have not complained about the level of compensation at your current employer. Neither your needs nor desires should require a higher salary to jump ship. Nice if it works out, of course.

I supposed you can try to wait it out until the bitter end, but do consider the local job market in your specialty. Are you going to be competing for the same jobs against your other colleagues who won't move?

go_mets
Posts: 361
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:49 am

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by go_mets » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:31 pm

I would start looking for a job in your current city.
if you absolutely cannot find another job, then I would entertain the idea of doing the long distance commute if your wife is agreeable to it.
If she isn't, then just let your company lay you off and collect the unemployment.

User avatar
Topic Author
beyou
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:57 pm
Location: Northeastern US

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by beyou » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:18 pm

DesertDiva wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:46 pm
Will they let you work remotely? :?:
Many have asked and the firm policy is no. And as a middle manager/supervisor of others, even more difficult.

User avatar
Topic Author
beyou
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:57 pm
Location: Northeastern US

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by beyou » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:28 pm

malabargold wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:48 pm
No magic solution.
Something has to give.
Better for you to decide what that will be than a forum.
I am not asking anyone to decide. The intent is to get financial, personal and career tips from others who may have had a similar situation. I can’t believe there aren’t other married persons nearing retirement. asked to move just a bit earlier than retirement. I am concerned if at 55 it’s late to start again. Been at current firm a very long time, have not been on interviews in years.

My bias is to play this out as long as I can, up to 2 years, take the severance and def comp, and “trial” retirement while looking around to see if there is something to tempt me otherwise. My risk averse bias is calling me to start looking asap, not knowing what I want is stopping me.

dziuniek
Posts: 523
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:54 pm
Location: Corrupticut

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by dziuniek » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:35 pm

It's also possible that at your age you won't be able to find a job. Period.

Ageism and all that.

Even more so if you ride it out for 2 years, assuming that's what happens.

So look for a job now or ride it out and collect unemployment later, knowing that you might not have another job.

So if you think 2 years is reasonable and you can ride it out that long PLUS get unemployment after.... that's half-way to 60, no?

Close enough to call it quits?

Murgatroyd
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by Murgatroyd » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:08 pm

I was in a similar situation at age 53. I rented an efficiency apt. And flew home every other weekend for 4 1/2 years. You just do what you have to do. Our marriage survived. FaceTime is a great invention. I’m retired now. In hindsight it wasn’t so bad.
Good luck.

btenny
Posts: 4672
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:47 pm

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by btenny » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:11 pm

There is another view of this move. Your bosses. He is looking for someone to get in front of this move and get over to the new place and get the people working. If you are not going to take that task he'/she will find someone else to do it. And fast. I bet if you do not take the job your boss will promote someone or hire someone for the job located at the new place. Then he will lay you off, soon. So beware of waiting.

I think you have only one choice.

PS. I have been in your spot before. Twice. When I was 26ish my Megacorp moved the whole group and my whole area and all the people to Texas. A long way from Phoenix. You either took the job in Texas or went looking for a job. Oh and about 30% of the people who moved got layed off in 3 months anyway. Everyone who stayed got layed off. The economy was crashing. I went to another company locally.

A similar thing happened with the same Megacorp when I was 52. I had gone back to work there. Now the group I was in was completing a giant job and had way to many employees. My boss wanted me to work with the guys in Chicago on new business. My wife had a good job and my kids were local, all in Phoenix. The corporation offered a parachute for older employees. I took it rather than do this new stuff and all the travel and remote work and the politics.

Good Luck.

staythecourse
Posts: 6340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:40 am

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by staythecourse » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:14 pm

What's the problem? Just stay until you get fired for not relocating. Then look for a new job. If you are financially secure then find ANY job for health insurance until you ride it out until retirement. Sounds easy enough. Heck to uber driving until you find another gig. Money is not an object so the time needed to find another job OR need to find a full time one OR one that pays the same is not an issue.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

meebers
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:20 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by meebers » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:22 pm

From a Military perspective. We moved quite a lot in 20 years, most times you cannot take your spouse with you when it is outside the U.S. Spouse is left home with the kids.

User avatar
Kenkat
Posts: 4564
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:18 am
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by Kenkat » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:35 pm

At 55, hoping to retire at 60 or so if I understood you correctly? I would ride the current job out as long as I could and then take the year’s severance and unemployment and either make retirement work or get a new job. The job market right now is awfully good. It’s a bit of a leap of faith, but that’s what I’d do in your shoes.

User avatar
Topic Author
beyou
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:57 pm
Location: Northeastern US

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by beyou » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:39 pm

meebers wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:22 pm
From a Military perspective. We moved quite a lot in 20 years, most times you cannot take your spouse with you when it is outside the U.S. Spouse is left home with the kids.
And your sacrifice is greatly appreciated !

User avatar
Topic Author
beyou
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:57 pm
Location: Northeastern US

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by beyou » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:42 pm

Kenkat wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:35 pm
At 55, hoping to retire at 60 or so if I understood you correctly? I would ride the current job out as long as I could and then take the year’s severance and unemployment and either make retirement work or get a new job. The job market right now is awfully good. It’s a bit of a leap of faith, but that’s what I’d do in your shoes.
This is what I had planned to do when in past I was led to believe a longer transition to the new city. Suddenly they decided to accelerate the move. Could be an extra year or two of no income/good health ins (ACA stinks in my area). Still leaning towards this, but have to make a decision sooner now.

User avatar
Topic Author
beyou
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:57 pm
Location: Northeastern US

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by beyou » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:45 pm

btenny wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:11 pm
There is another view of this move. Your bosses. He is looking for someone to get in front of this move and get over to the new place and get the people working. If you are not going to take that task he'/she will find someone else to do it. And fast. I bet if you do not take the job your boss will promote someone or hire someone for the job located at the new place. Then he will lay you off, soon. So beware of waiting.

I think you have only one choice.

PS. I have been in your spot before. Twice. When I was 26ish my Megacorp moved the whole group and my whole area and all the people to Texas. A long way from Phoenix. You either took the job in Texas or went looking for a job. Oh and about 30% of the people who moved got layed off in 3 months anyway. Everyone who stayed got layed off. The economy was crashing. I went to another company locally.

A similar thing happened with the same Megacorp when I was 52. I had gone back to work there. Now the group I was in was completing a giant job and had way to many employees. My boss wanted me to work with the guys in Chicago on new business. My wife had a good job and my kids were local, all in Phoenix. The corporation offered a parachute for older employees. I took it rather than do this new stuff and all the travel and remote work and the politics.

Good Luck.
That’s another factor, move then laid off. Hear that all the time. I would only rent if I went. The whole point of the move is to save $ in a declining industry, whose to say it wont continue to decline. This is just a possible weigh station if I go.

User avatar
jabberwockOG
Posts: 1527
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 7:23 am

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by jabberwockOG » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:03 pm

Start looking for a new job immediately. Faced with same scenario years ago, my company merged with a larger company and then the CEO announced move of HQ to Southern California. No way I was moving to LA.

I started looking for a new gig, networking, etc., and was pleasantly surprised at how quickly I found a new (and better job) with no move required.

User avatar
Watty
Posts: 14873
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by Watty » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:41 am

I had a similar situation when I was in my mid 40s when there was a merger and my office was closed, but early retirement was not an option for me.

There had already been some staff reductions and there were only about 75 people left in the office when they announced it would be closing. To the companies credit they offered paid relocation to anyone that wanted to move even if they had a clerical job. Out of the 75 remaining people only three people including myself were interested in relocating. My impression was that the company was somewhat surprised that so few people were interested in relocating.

A couple of things about my situation.

1) The job market was not good in the city I was in and it would have been hard to find a similar job there. All three people that moved worked in IT. This was in the post Dot Com bust so there there were few IT jobs available.

2) I had a kid in middle school and the schools in the new city were a lot better.

3) In the new city I would have increased responsibilities and my job looked pretty secure there for at least the next five years because the system I was working on would be around for at least that long. I worked at that company for another 13 years until I voluntarily retired in my late 50s.

4) If I did not relocate I would get a severance package that was about six months income.

5) The new city was moderately less expensive. I was able to buy a comparable house for about 15% less but since then housing prices in the old city have increased a lot more than in the new city. It would be hard to afford to move back there now.

6) The kid who was in middle school is 30 now and is married and has kids and they live about ten minutes away from us. Our original plan was to move somewhere else when we retired but that is not going to happen since we now have family ties here.

7) With only a few people being interested in relocating they really needed me in the new location. My salary was somewhat below market. I was able to negotiate about a 12% raise if I relocated even though my job title was the same. Moving to a lower cost of living area and getting a raise is a good combination. :D

A few takeaways;

1) After I moved if felt sort of funny working there for the first six months. The problem was that I felt that I was working for "free" since I could have gotten six months severance pay. Six months was bad enough but I would think that it would be really hard to work like that for a year if you would get a years severance pay. It also sounds like your wife would be giving up her income to relocate and she might not ever get that back. Would you even break even if you worked in the new location for two years?

2) It was not clear if your kids are still living at home or not. Moving and changing schools is can be hard on kids especially if they are in middle or high school. My kid was in middle school and it took him at least two years to really adapt. If they are about to graduate high school or are in college be sure to look at the details of what it takes to qualify for in-state college tuition if you move out of state.

3) I don't recall the details but the other two people that relocated were both laid off after maybe 5 and 7 years. Neither of them were really top performers even before the relocation so that may have been more house cleaning.

4) It sounds like you really don't have a lot of firm details about the severance and relocation package. That really does not sound right and is sort of a red flag that something is not as good as the company would like you to think. I would try to get more details on that. If you can't get firm details but can find a local job that pays the same it might make sense to just take it.

beyou wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:16 pm
...or stay put and wait for something that will pay for medical care and some cash flow until I retire, in a location I am happy.
This is sort of off the wall but I know two people that were laid off from IT jobs in their 50s and they could not find another IT job. They ended up working as school bus drivers to get the benefits and a little income. They got summers and school holidays off and that seemed to work for them and they really like all the time off. At least around here they are always looking for school bus drivers since it does not pay enough for people that need full time work.

carolinaman
Posts: 3390
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:56 am
Location: North Carolina

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by carolinaman » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:58 am

beyou wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:28 pm
malabargold wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:48 pm
No magic solution.
Something has to give.
Better for you to decide what that will be than a forum.
I am not asking anyone to decide. The intent is to get financial, personal and career tips from others who may have had a similar situation. I can’t believe there aren’t other married persons nearing retirement. asked to move just a bit earlier than retirement. I am concerned if at 55 it’s late to start again. Been at current firm a very long time, have not been on interviews in years.

My bias is to play this out as long as I can, up to 2 years, take the severance and def comp, and “trial” retirement while looking around to see if there is something to tempt me otherwise. My risk averse bias is calling me to start looking asap, not knowing what I want is stopping me.
Your dilemma seems to be to play this out as long as you can versus finding another job locally. If you think you can achieve your financial goals by stringing it out, that is a viable option. OTOH, depending on jobs for your specialized skills, there may not be a lot of these jobs available in a given period of time. It seems like you should start looking in the local job market if you are serious about this as an option. If you have a general idea of what you want now, this should help you get a better idea of what is available and salaries. You could wind up with a job that you would be happy with for another 5 to 10 years. Every year you wait makes it a little harder from the "ageism" perspective.

User avatar
Topic Author
beyou
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:57 pm
Location: Northeastern US

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by beyou » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:12 pm

Watty wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:41 am
2) It was not clear if your kids are still living at home or not. Moving and changing schools is can be hard on kids especially if they are in middle or high school. My kid was in middle school and it took him at least two years to really adapt. If they are about to graduate high school or are in college be sure to look at the details of what it takes to qualify for in-state college tuition if you move out of state.



4) It sounds like you really don't have a lot of firm details about the severance and relocation package. That really does not sound right and is sort of a red flag that something is not as good as the company would like you to think. I would try to get more details on that. If you can't get firm details but can find a local job that pays the same it might make sense to just take it.

beyou wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:16 pm
...or stay put and wait for something that will pay for medical care and some cash flow until I retire, in a location I am happy.
This is sort of off the wall but I know two people that were laid off from IT jobs in their 50s and they could not find another IT job. They ended up working as school bus drivers to get the benefits and a little income. They got summers and school holidays off and that seemed to work for them and they really like all the time off. At least around here they are always looking for school bus drivers since it does not pay enough for people that need full time work.
Regarding kids, both completing college this year, tuition almost done. Always regretted that my own parents moved to a LCOL area far from their soon to be born grandchildren, missing most of their childhood. My kids are likely to stay nearer to my current home than the company destination, though no guarantees. One is being recruited to his dream job in our area, but considering other higher paying options elsewhere. Other we are less sure about, but he seems to prefer staying in our area, not too far from college friends. Hard to plan around so many variables, but having a happy wife and near children are very important. Most good jobs in my field are leaving the area, it’s not just my company. So retirement for happy/healthy family or career/financial health seems to be the tradeoff.

My company definitely does not value it’s staff at all, no we are not given anything but minimal moving expenses. I dont believe their comments about severance either.

Love the idea of bus driving, my role model would be Otto from The Simpsons.

User avatar
burt
Posts: 687
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:47 am

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by burt » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:59 pm

Thank goodness your children are older.
Many times over my career I've witnessed families moving to the worst undesirable locations with young children.
The children know no better and consider that s*hole home.
Next thing you know... grandchildren.... and you are stuck, forever.

burt

UpperNwGuy
Posts: 1435
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:16 pm

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by UpperNwGuy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:43 pm

I'm retired now, but when I was working many of my colleagues were living in sparsely-furnished efficiency apartments within walking distance of our office. Every Friday (or every alternate Friday) they would fly to their home city and spend the weekend with their family in the big house. They would fly back to our work location on Sunday nights or Monday mornings. This is what I would do.

User avatar
Watty
Posts: 14873
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by Watty » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:27 pm

beyou wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:12 pm
My company definitely does not value it’s staff at all, no we are not given anything but minimal moving expenses. I dont believe their comments about severance either.
I would put the local job hunt into high gear. Once you have an offer you can decide what to do.

User avatar
Bogle7
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 9:33 am

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by Bogle7 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:07 pm

Move, but don’t move.

User avatar
Topic Author
beyou
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:57 pm
Location: Northeastern US

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by beyou » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:01 pm

Watty wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:27 pm
beyou wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:12 pm
My company definitely does not value it’s staff at all, no we are not given anything but minimal moving expenses. I dont believe their comments about severance either.
I would put the local job hunt into high gear. Once you have an offer you can decide what to do.
I have been reluctant to do this due to prospect of getting severance (I have 15 years with this firm), and
also deferred comp that I get unless I go to a competitor. This could be a multiple six figure payout for staying.
Part they owe me, part (severance) may be less generous than early promises (doubt they fear discrimination lawsuits when relocating).
That said, the def comp can be made up for in a sign on bonus, so that is the main reason to look, but the bar will be high to leave.
Would want that replacement guaranteed comp, and comparable ongoing income, but my experience is in a declining industry that is generally moving away.

dknightd
Posts: 1160
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:57 am

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by dknightd » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:20 pm

if you have enough money saved, now might be a good time to retire. Then perhaps later look for ways to make money

AlphaLess
Posts: 1206
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:38 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by AlphaLess » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:26 pm

btenny wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:42 pm
Move but don't move. Confusing yea. But I think you need to agree to move and work at the new location. Get as many details on what the company will pay you to move. Ask for extra pay to move. How will they cover moving expenses? Will they increase your salary?
Good idea but could be risky.

Generous relocation benefits (especially for internal moves) are typically ladden with incentives to actually move. I.e.,:
- assistance to sell the house,
- assistance to buy a house,
- paying for the ACTUAL move,
- etc.

Monetizing those is a good idea, but that comes with the risk of disclosing that you are actually NOT moving.
"You can get more with a kind word and a gun than with just a kind word." George Washington

User avatar
Topic Author
beyou
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:57 pm
Location: Northeastern US

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by beyou » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:27 pm

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:43 pm
I'm retired now, but when I was working many of my colleagues were living in sparsely-furnished efficiency apartments within walking distance of our office. Every Friday (or every alternate Friday) they would fly to their home city and spend the weekend with their family in the big house. They would fly back to our work location on Sunday nights or Monday mornings. This is what I would do.
Yeah, wife not in love with the idea, but will look around to see what's in the area walking distance when I go to "look".
That said, I am on the fence, kinda like the idea of getting a severance check and elimination of my non-compete for purpose
of deferred comp that is due. This is only a topic since the company is accelerating the plans ahead of original schedule.
Based on original longer schedule move was DEFINITELY planning to take a package and retire. But now if I have to retire a couple
of years earlier, that is a big hit to retirement savings. I have a decent income, and for last 3-4 years much of discretionary went to tuition, was hoping
to now sock away to hit my comfortable "number" and delay need for self paid healthcare so soon. I can probably retire earlier but a bit less comfortably.

One nice thing, my wife loves her job and does not want to retire, so we'll have some income and she can explore her healthcare.
But no doubt we'd be just treading water financially, little discretionary income if we go on just her income. Existing savings will have to stretch for more years.

I think when I actually get on a plane and see how good/bad is the airport, traffic, nearby apartments, I'll really see how feasible it will be to live out of a suitcase. Seems for airfare and a studio apt (or hotel) would cost me 40-50k/year of taxable income (30-35k after tax). So if I find a local job with 50k less pay, I break even (and better life, happy wife).

blahblahsunshine
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:11 pm

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by blahblahsunshine » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:34 pm

I'd not move and wait for the severance. You said you were due for ~1 year severane and planned to work for less than four more. So the severance gets you a bit of the way home on that. I was employeed by a megacorp that was acquired and some people relocated, but less than 10% of them stayed there more than two years. And there is always the matter of layoffs or forced resignation at the destination and all the other stuff. Seems to me you are close enough to advice your fire plan... Maybe not comfortable re: sequence of return risk, but I would submit even if you were where you wanted to be you'd be having the same debate about having enough regardless.

Carefreeap
Posts: 2436
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:36 pm
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by Carefreeap » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:21 pm

beyou wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:01 pm
Watty wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:27 pm
beyou wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:12 pm
My company definitely does not value it’s staff at all, no we are not given anything but minimal moving expenses. I dont believe their comments about severance either.
I would put the local job hunt into high gear. Once you have an offer you can decide what to do.
I have been reluctant to do this due to prospect of getting severance (I have 15 years with this firm), and
also deferred comp that I get unless I go to a competitor. This could be a multiple six figure payout for staying.
Part they owe me, part (severance) may be less generous than early promises (doubt they fear discrimination lawsuits when relocating).
That said, the def comp can be made up for in a sign on bonus, so that is the main reason to look, but the bar will be high to leave.
Would want that replacement guaranteed comp, and comparable ongoing income, but my experience is in a declining industry that is generally moving away.
There are actually some government protections about treating individuals within a class differently when it comes to severance. Large companies with Human Resource staff know this and will follow the rules rather than risk lawsuits and investigations.

We were in a similar boat as you during the dotbomb and living in the Bay Area. Company (which was a start up here) was purchased by out of country organization. They wanted to relocate due to the high cost of real estate and the rolling black out situation. They did what a lot of execs like to do, they relocated where they wanted to play golf; AZ and FL.

Even though our initial thought was no way in h*ll were we going to relocate, I've always been a big believer in at least checking out the option. I thought it was unlikely we would move as I had a good paying job (although I wasn't very happy) which could support us and we had plenty of money in savings and retirement funds.

We checked it out. Much to my surprise we actually really liked AZ and thought we could give it a go if DH could get the right terms. It took over a year but he was able to negotiate better terms. The execs thought more people would jump ship and they had a hard time finding qualified people. Terms got sweeter and sweeter and my deal with DH was that I would move but only if we could keep the Bay Area house. I was afraid that if we sold we would never be able to afford to move back.

Overall we were happy with our decision. We wound up moving back to the Bay Area after another relocation (overseas).

I think you owe it to yourselves to check the area out. Good luck with your decision.

btenny
Posts: 4672
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:47 pm

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by btenny » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:55 pm

I mentioned RVs as housing alternative for a good reason. They can be great for single people or couples to live in part time and they are low cost. I have a good friend who bought a nice 40 foot class A motor home to live in while he worked in the Bay area. His space rent and RV payment was less than apartment rent. Plus he got equity in his RV and it was cheaper than sunk apartment rent. He ended up living in that RV for several years and commuted to his home in Lake Tahoe on weekends. And in his case he wanted to travel when he retired so he just bought his RV early.

So I suggest you look around at the new location for RV parks or mobile home parks that will allow RVs as an alternative to apartments.

Good Luck

User avatar
OAG
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:54 am
Location: Currently Central Ohio, USA

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by OAG » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:52 pm

meebers wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:22 pm
From a Military perspective. We moved quite a lot in 20 years, most times you cannot take your spouse with you when it is outside the U.S. Spouse is left home with the kids.
+1
Same here 17 moves in 21 years many unaccompanied but a couple of major advantages - Younger (38 in my case) and very reasonable medical care. One disadvantage was much lower pay.
OAG=Old Army Guy. Retired CW4 USA (US Army) in 1979.

jumppilot
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:38 am

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by jumppilot » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:15 pm

greg24 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:15 pm
btenny wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:42 pm
Move but don't move.
I would strongly consider this advice. Even if you only make it 6 months, that is 6 more months of salary, and 6 less months of health insurance uncertainty.

My neighbor is in the military and recently was forced to take a one year assignment overseas where he could not take his family.

A few months into the assignment he flew home for the birth of his 2nd child then flew right back.

So it’s not like the rest of the world isn’t having to accommodate the challenges of assignments far from home. It can be done.

User avatar
Watty
Posts: 14873
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by Watty » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:50 pm

beyou wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:01 pm
Watty wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:27 pm
beyou wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:12 pm
My company definitely does not value it’s staff at all, no we are not given anything but minimal moving expenses. I dont believe their comments about severance either.
I would put the local job hunt into high gear. Once you have an offer you can decide what to do.
I have been reluctant to do this due to prospect of getting severance (I have 15 years with this firm), and
also deferred comp that I get unless I go to a competitor. This could be a multiple six figure payout for staying.
Part they owe me, part (severance) may be less generous than early promises (doubt they fear discrimination lawsuits when relocating).
That said, the def comp can be made up for in a sign on bonus, so that is the main reason to look, but the bar will be high to leave.
Would want that replacement guaranteed comp, and comparable ongoing income, but my experience is in a declining industry that is generally moving away.
Maybe the right thing to do is to do nothing and wait to see how it plays out.

It would be good to be networking a lot though so your contacts will be up to date if you do need to find a job.

Either you will get to the point where you have to decide or the decision will be made for you and you would be laid off with the severance package.

With all the negatives it sound like moving is not a real viable option unless they make you some offer that is too good to refuse but with the way described being in a "declining industry" that sounds very unlikely.

User avatar
Topic Author
beyou
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:57 pm
Location: Northeastern US

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by beyou » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:43 pm

blahblahsunshine wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:34 pm
I'd not move and wait for the severance. You said you were due for ~1 year severane and planned to work for less than four more. So the severance gets you a bit of the way home on that. I was employeed by a megacorp that was acquired and some people relocated, but less than 10% of them stayed there more than two years. And there is always the matter of layoffs or forced resignation at the destination and all the other stuff. Seems to me you are close enough to advice your fire plan... Maybe not comfortable re: sequence of return risk, but I would submit even if you were where you wanted to be you'd be having the same debate about having enough regardless.
Yes I am starting to think, when is enough ever enough ?
I think at 60 it would be a no brainer, but I guess there is a reason for those 55 and over communities. Apparently many retire by 55 !

go_mets
Posts: 361
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:49 am

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by go_mets » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:47 pm

25 years ago I was with a small group in Motorola.
They relocated to Ft. Worth.
The company paid a lump sum for the relocation with the stipulation of waiting 1 year.
Everybody moved back of those who relocated.

epictetus
Posts: 521
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:43 pm

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by epictetus » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:01 pm

it sounds like you might receive a lot of money if you wait until the end (multiple 6 figures your note indicated).

and if you get another job before the end and resign you won't get the payoff you would get if you waited until the end.

and it sounds like you really don't want to move.

if you are sure you are going to be paid a lot if you wait until the end it sounds like that would be a key factor. and then after that look for a new job in your area. and between now and then put out feelers to see what is available in your area.

if there is a lot of uncertainty re: if you are going to receive the payout or not i would be tempted to go ahead and look for and find a new job in your area.

the commuting/flying/living out of a suitcase/being away from your wife sounds horrible to me. although it sounds like many have done it successfully.
Focus on what you can control

DVMResident
Posts: 1264
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:15 pm

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by DVMResident » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:45 pm

It really depends on the numbers which you (understandably) didn’t post if you ‘have’ to work again. Sounds like you want to stay and get the severance. If the numbers work, it’s perfectly reasonable.


Some random thoughts that haven’t been mentioned yet:
-At 55 you have full access to the 401(k) after separation with no plenty.
-You mention COBRA, but you wife is working. Can you get insurance through her? If not, ACA is an option and potentially with subsidies after the severance runs out. Again, depends on the numbers and your state if ACA is reasonable.
-Related to health, do all everything (blood work, dental work) and utilize all benefits before the separation.
-You mention you finished paying for college. Congrats! Many parents still provide for their adult children after college. If this is you, it’s worth revisiting. I only mention it because it’s common and has important implications on expenses.
-Part-time is an option even at 55 without going to a competitor. A little bit of salary can make a big difference and coast to retirement. There’s lots of options like dog walking, tutoring, seasonal work, Uber, etc. One relative of mine FIRE’d around this age and now seasonally rebuild nuclear reactors with no prior background (every 6 months it’s 4~5 weeks of work). Sometimes life provides odd opportunities if you have your eyes open.
-Your expenses will be much lower. The biggie is taxes and you can keep more of DW’s salary. Try to unwind comp over multiple years. Try to minimize taxes and push all gains possible until 2020+. If you know your exit date, max 401(k)/ deferral mechanisms before the separation.
-If you need to qualify for anything based on salary (e.g. refi), do it now.

User avatar
Topic Author
beyou
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:57 pm
Location: Northeastern US

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by beyou » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:58 pm

DVMResident wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:45 pm
It really depends on the numbers which you (understandably) didn’t post if you ‘have’ to work again. Sounds like you want to stay and get the severance. If the numbers work, it’s perfectly reasonable.


Some random thoughts that haven’t been mentioned yet:
-At 55 you have full access to the 401(k) after separation with no plenty.
-You mention COBRA, but you wife is working. Can you get insurance through her? If not, ACA is an option and potentially with subsidies after the severance runs out. Again, depends on the numbers and your state if ACA is reasonable.
-Related to health, do all everything (blood work, dental work) and utilize all benefits before the separation.
-You mention you finished paying for college. Congrats! Many parents still provide for their adult children after college. If this is you, it’s worth revisiting. I only mention it because it’s common and has important implications on expenses.
-Part-time is an option even at 55 without going to a competitor. A little bit of salary can make a big difference and coast to retirement. There’s lots of options like dog walking, tutoring, seasonal work, Uber, etc. One relative of mine FIRE’d around this age and now seasonally rebuild nuclear reactors with no prior background (every 6 months it’s 4~5 weeks of work). Sometimes life provides odd opportunities if you have your eyes open.
-Your expenses will be much lower. The biggie is taxes and you can keep more of DW’s salary. Try to unwind comp over multiple years. Try to minimize taxes and push all gains possible until 2020+. If you know your exit date, max 401(k)/ deferral mechanisms before the separation.
-If you need to qualify for anything based on salary (e.g. refi), do it now.
Thanks for your reply and helpful advice.

As to kids, have done my duty, sent them to top universities and gave them my DNA to be able to study in hot STEM fields.
Happy to help them get started in life debt free, with expenses associated to launching career (tuition done but car, apartment downpayments).
They are free to live at home, not downsizing. But they are nearing readiness to launch. Was hoping to work a bit longer for this reason but not much longer.

Going to review wife's policy but it would be fully paid by us. Looked at ACA, the plans in our area are bad. No out of state or out of network coverage, and no HSA. So Cobra or wife's plans may well be more attractive, but ACA would be a last resort.

I will look at options for work that are leveraging my experience but preferably part time and flexible.
I starting working as a teenage moving lawns, delivering papers, heavy lifting in a store, and professional career has spanned over 3 decades now.
Prefer to avoid long commute with long days at some point, was OK to do a few more years but not too much longer.
Current commute is on comfortable public transit (but long trip so don't want to do this forever).

Will come back on this topic maybe later this year to update where I am and if I have further questions for this great group.

Jeff P
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:07 am

Re: Company relocating and not interested - next steps ?

Post by Jeff P » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:17 pm

You said you would be one of the most inportant employees if your new bosses knew.

I read about 1/2 the replies and didn’t see this mentioned, but maybe after you get laid off, you can consult for your old company?

Post Reply