Fidelity as a one stop shop

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snowman
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by snowman »

jumbopapa wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:27 am I can take the more expensive MM in exchange for the other benefits seeing that I have little cash on hand at any given time.
There is no reason for you to do that. Just keep your MMF at Vanguard, move the rest to Fidelity, and set up ACH between Fidelity and Vanguard. You get the best of both worlds.
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JoMoney
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by JoMoney »

snowman wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:14 pm
jumbopapa wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:27 am I can take the more expensive MM in exchange for the other benefits seeing that I have little cash on hand at any given time.
There is no reason for you to do that. Just keep your MMF at Vanguard, move the rest to Fidelity, and set up ACH between Fidelity and Vanguard. You get the best of both worlds.
True, but the premise of this thread is/was about making Fidelity a "one stop shop" including checking/savings.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
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BogleMelon
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by BogleMelon »

snowman wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:14 pm
jumbopapa wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:27 am I can take the more expensive MM in exchange for the other benefits seeing that I have little cash on hand at any given time.
There is no reason for you to do that. Just keep your MMF at Vanguard, move the rest to Fidelity, and set up ACH between Fidelity and Vanguard. You get the best of both worlds.
OP here.
The only reason is for "simplicity". It depends on the dollar amounts anyways. I only keep around $20K in MM fund in Fidelity, so doesn't worth it for me to chase the extra points by having both (V and Fido). I still keeping my Ally checking and a NoP CD though. I just decided to keep at least one more financial institution active instead of putting all the eggs into one basket. But other than that, I have now Roth IRA's, Brokerage and CMA at Fidelity and I am happy so far with them
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather
808
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by 808 »

plmd wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:06 am However, I suddenly couldn't log into my accounts last night. I called Fidelity, and I was told that I had to call back in the morning, because the fraud department was closed. Called again this morning and found out that Fidelity doesn't want me as a customer, and they won't tell me why. I was instructed to fax a copy of my driver license and a bank statement or voided check, so they could return the money to me.
Since Fraud department is involved, I'm guessing it has to do with the Patriot Act and/or Know Your Customer. Meaning, there is probably some discrepancy in your digital identity. For what it's worth, I suggest you get copies of all your CRA (credit reporting agency) reports, not just the "big three", and check for errors.

Check out the Wiki (https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Credit_freeze) for CRAs that keep track of you. The CFPB PDF link is key.

I recently requested my LexisNexis report and was surprised at the volume of "information" (not all correct) they had on me; all 408 double-sided pages that came in four 8.5 x 11 envelopes.
plmd
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by plmd »

808 wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:47 pm Since Fraud department is involved, I'm guessing it has to do with the Patriot Act and/or Know Your Customer. Meaning, there is probably some discrepancy in your digital identity. For what it's worth, I suggest you get copies of all your CRA (credit reporting agency) reports, not just the "big three", and check for errors.

Check out the Wiki (https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Credit_freeze) for CRAs that keep track of you. The CFPB PDF link is key.

I recently requested my LexisNexis report and was surprised at the volume of "information" (not all correct) they had on me; all 408 double-sided pages that came in four 8.5 x 11 envelopes.
I called a regional Fidelity rep that I had a lengthy conversation with early this week, and he called the fraud department last night to inquire about the situation and was told the same thing that there was nothing that could be done, but apparently, the fraud department suddenly called him this morning to tell him that they took a second look, and they will let me keep my accounts. The rep couldn't share too much with me, but it did have something to do with identity theft, which I did experience a few years ago when I got denied for a credit card I didn't apply for. I thought I was in the clear, but apparently not.

One of the things that the Fidelity rep told the fraud department was that I had spoken to him for 30 minutes early this week asking questions about the trading platform and discussing financial goals, and the fraud department agreed that a fraudster probably wouldn't have spent so much time discussing those things! It's still annoying that the fraud department didn't even give me a chance to prove that I actually am who I claimed to be. I'm glad that I thought of contacting the regional rep, since none of the other Fidelity phone reps were able to help.

I do periodically look at my TransUnion and Equifax reports, but I'll have to check Experian and the other smaller ones. Thanks for the recommendation.
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TimeRunner
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by TimeRunner »

Plmd, look at it this way - Fido's doing due diligence and making it tougher for anyone to impersonate you or gain access to your accounts. That's a good thing.
One cannot enlighten the unconscious.
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BogleMelon
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by BogleMelon »

TimeRunner wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:59 pm Plmd, look at it this way - Fido's doing due diligence and making it tougher for anyone to impersonate you or gain access to your accounts. That's a good thing.
It is good for you (until you become a victim of identity theft as well), but not for him? not sure.
Imagine if every broker treated him the same way because of a past incidence he had no control on? Fidelity has walk-in offices, they could simply take the initiative and require him to go to one of those to prove his identity. But to kick him out without an explanation?! That is something I wouldn't appreciate. Glad they offered him to stay afterward, but if I were him I would probably leave anyway.
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather
plmd
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by plmd »

BogleMelon wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:58 pm It is good for you (until you become a victim of identity theft as well), but not for him? not sure.
Imagine if every broker treated him the same way because of a past incidence he had no control on? Fidelity has walk-in offices, they could simply take the initiative and require him to go to one of those to prove his identity. But to kick him out without an explanation?! That is something I wouldn't appreciate. Glad they offered him to stay afterward, but if I were him I would probably leave anyway.
The Fidelity regional rep also said that even though he works for Fidelity, he wouldn't want to do business with them after how they treated me. Even if they really thought the account was created by an imposter, it doesn't make sense that they would reach out to me and ask where to wire the funds. Wouldn't they just be returning the funds to the imposter? And if they decided that it was ok to wire the funds back to me, by then they must feel confident that I'm who I say I am, so there wouldn't be any reason to close the account.

I'm still going to use the account now that I'm allowed to keep it, but I'm definitely going to slow down the pace at which I bring over more funds, assets, and retirement accounts to make sure they don't try to pull this on me again. I'm just glad this didn't happen while I was traveling overseas. I'm out of the country about 1-2 months every year, and it would have been a disaster if they pulled this crap while I was gone causing me to lose the ability to withdraw cash at the ATM. I'll definitely be carrying my Schwab ATM card as a spare for my next trip.

The bottom line is that their fraud department really needs to change their policies and criteria for identifying fraudulent accounts. Someone trying to steal my identity wouldn't transfer in almost the exact amount of money needed to buy FZDXX in order to squeeze out the extra interest over SPAXX or SPRXX and keep almost no funds in the lower paying CMA. And they really need to at least have an appeal process to give you a chance to prove that you're not committing fraud.
ronin
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by ronin »

Does using the various flavors of Fidelity for a one-stop-shop discussed on this thread work well with Quicken downloads? My hesitation is more around the fact that the CMA offerings are only 'bank-like' in nature and the underling systems might not play nicely with Quicken from the cash management side of things especially if taking advantage of automatic over drafting to a CMA from a brokerage's MMMF position.

Thanks.

Steve
Last edited by ronin on Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bugleheadd
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bugleheadd »

i have most of my funds in fidelity, it just makes it easier to manage: 401k, trad IRa, Roth IRA, taxable account
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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by oldcomputerguy »

jumbopapa wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:50 am I'm comparing different funds at Vanguard vs. Fidelity and it seems that the only funds that are cheaper than their counterparts at Vanguard are the zero fee funds.
You might not be looking in the right places. There are several Fidelity index funds that are lower ER than their Vanguard counterparts. For example, Vanguard's VTSAX (Total Stock Market) has an ER of 0.04%, while Fidelity's FSKAX Total Market Index Fund's ER is 0.015%. Likewise, Fidelity's FTIHX Total International Fund's ER is 0.06%, which is lower than Vanguard's VTIAX Total International's 0.11%. (Fidelity may have a leg up on this, given that they recently collapsed the share classes of some of their fund families into the corresponding Institutional class funds, which typically have very, very low ER's, while Vanguard maintains their Institutional-class funds as separate share classes from their Admiral funds.)
What about things like total bond funds? VBMFX has an ER of .15% and FTBFX has an ER of .45% - these are equivalent funds, right?
No, they are not. First off, assuming you mean VBFMX (Total Bond Investor Class), that fund is now closed and folded into the Admiral-class fund VBTLX, which is a passively-managed fund that indexes against the Bloomberg-Barclays Aggregate Bond Index and has an ER of 0.05%. FTBFX, on the other hand, is an actively-managed fund, not an index fund. To compare apples and apples, you probably should compare VBTLX to Fidelity's U.S. Bond Index fund FXNAX, which follows the same index as VBTLX and has an ER of 0.025%.

Hope this helps.
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boston10
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by boston10 »

plmd wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:44 pm
BogleMelon wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:58 pm It is good for you (until you become a victim of identity theft as well), but not for him? not sure.
Imagine if every broker treated him the same way because of a past incidence he had no control on? Fidelity has walk-in offices, they could simply take the initiative and require him to go to one of those to prove his identity. But to kick him out without an explanation?! That is something I wouldn't appreciate. Glad they offered him to stay afterward, but if I were him I would probably leave anyway.
The Fidelity regional rep also said that even though he works for Fidelity, he wouldn't want to do business with them after how they treated me. Even if they really thought the account was created by an imposter, it doesn't make sense that they would reach out to me and ask where to wire the funds. Wouldn't they just be returning the funds to the imposter? And if they decided that it was ok to wire the funds back to me, by then they must feel confident that I'm who I say I am, so there wouldn't be any reason to close the account.
Look at it this way. Their goal is to minimize fraud risk to their institution to protect against loss and risk. They believe they have information that indicates you are an impostor/identity thief. Their primary goal at that point is to get rid of you and move on with their business. In this scenario if you were an identity thief, who knows or cares why you transferred $100k in (there are lots of reasons an impostor could want to move money in someone else's name), and who cares who you really are (they're not the cops and it's not their job to "catch" you).

This isn't an excuse - Fidelity's fraud department really needs to have more customer-friendly policies with an appeals/verification process. But AML statutes and FinCEN KYC requirements make it very risky for a financial institution to do business with someone when they have evidence they are not who they say they are. If they did business with a terrorist or a drug dealer who was moving money using an American citizen's stolen identity, they could get in a lot of trouble.
jumbopapa
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by jumbopapa »

What is the best way to handle transferring a Roth IRA from Vanguard in terms of exchanging the funds? I want to minimize my time out of the market. Here are my three ideas:

- Convert VTSAX (my only holding) to VTI, transfer in kind, sell, buy FZROX (this should only take a single day)
- Transfer VTSAX in kind, sell, buy FZROX (this would likely take two days)
- Transfer VTSAX in kind and keep it, all new contributions would be FZROX

Am I overthinking this? I'm just a little uneasy about taking anytime out of the market to handle the exchanging of funds.
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BogleMelon
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by BogleMelon »

jumbopapa wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:51 pm What is the best way to handle transferring a Roth IRA from Vanguard in terms of exchanging the funds? I want to minimize my time out of the market. Here are my three ideas:

- Convert VTSAX (my only holding) to VTI, transfer in kind, sell, buy FZROX (this should only take a single day)
- Transfer VTSAX in kind, sell, buy FZROX (this would likely take two days)
- Transfer VTSAX in kind and keep it, all new contributions would be FZROX

Am I overthinking this? I'm just a little uneasy about taking anytime out of the market to handle the exchanging of funds.
Transfer VTSAX in kind. Once in Fidelity you can leave them or swap them "same-day transaction" to FZROX or whatever
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather
vtMaps
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by vtMaps »

jumbopapa wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:51 pm - Transfer VTSAX in kind, sell, buy FZROX (this would likely take two days)
BogleMelon is correct: They are both mutual funds so there is no time out of the market if you do a same day swap.
BogleMelon wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:57 pm Transfer VTSAX in kind. Once in Fidelity you can leave them or swap them "same-day transaction" to FZROX or whatever
There will probably be a transaction fee for the swap... I don't think Vanguard mutual funds are zero-transaction-fee at Fidelity.

--vtMaps
Historical Fact: Justin Smith Morrill represented Vermont in congress, had a dog named 'Trump', and wrote legislation establishing the Land Grant Colleges.
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BogleMelon
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by BogleMelon »

vtMaps wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:49 pm
There will probably be a transaction fee for the swap... I don't think Vanguard mutual funds are zero-transaction-fee at Fidelity.

--vtMaps
I have done that before, around the beginning of this year, it was zero fees to sell Vanguard.
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather
jumbopapa
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by jumbopapa »

BogleMelon wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:54 pm
vtMaps wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:49 pm
There will probably be a transaction fee for the swap... I don't think Vanguard mutual funds are zero-transaction-fee at Fidelity.

--vtMaps
I have done that before, around the beginning of this year, it was zero fees to sell Vanguard.
I talked to a Fido rep. They told me it was free to sell Vanguard funds, but there is a $75 fee if I wanted to purchase more.
jumbopapa
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by jumbopapa »

BogleMelon wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:57 pm
jumbopapa wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:51 pm What is the best way to handle transferring a Roth IRA from Vanguard in terms of exchanging the funds? I want to minimize my time out of the market. Here are my three ideas:

- Convert VTSAX (my only holding) to VTI, transfer in kind, sell, buy FZROX (this should only take a single day)
- Transfer VTSAX in kind, sell, buy FZROX (this would likely take two days)
- Transfer VTSAX in kind and keep it, all new contributions would be FZROX

Am I overthinking this? I'm just a little uneasy about taking anytime out of the market to handle the exchanging of funds.
Transfer VTSAX in kind. Once in Fidelity you can leave them or swap them "same-day transaction" to FZROX or whatever
Okay, wasn't sure if Fidelity would let me buy FZROX until the the order settled. You're saying I can sell VTSAX and immediately buy FZROX?
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BogleMelon
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by BogleMelon »

jumbopapa wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:56 pm
BogleMelon wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:57 pm
jumbopapa wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:51 pm What is the best way to handle transferring a Roth IRA from Vanguard in terms of exchanging the funds? I want to minimize my time out of the market. Here are my three ideas:

- Convert VTSAX (my only holding) to VTI, transfer in kind, sell, buy FZROX (this should only take a single day)
- Transfer VTSAX in kind, sell, buy FZROX (this would likely take two days)
- Transfer VTSAX in kind and keep it, all new contributions would be FZROX

Am I overthinking this? I'm just a little uneasy about taking anytime out of the market to handle the exchanging of funds.
Transfer VTSAX in kind. Once in Fidelity you can leave them or swap them "same-day transaction" to FZROX or whatever
Okay, wasn't sure if Fidelity would let me buy FZROX until the the order settled. You're saying I can sell VTSAX and immediately buy FZROX?
Yes, they would. And yes, I meant that. Example:
https://i.postimg.cc/ZqjT3bRW/fd.jpg
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather
vtMaps
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by vtMaps »

jumbopapa wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:56 pm You're saying I can sell VTSAX and immediately buy FZROX?
Yes. you are trading one for the other. The transaction will occur at market close after you place the order to swap. --vtMaps
Historical Fact: Justin Smith Morrill represented Vermont in congress, had a dog named 'Trump', and wrote legislation establishing the Land Grant Colleges.
jumbopapa
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by jumbopapa »

BogleMelon wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:01 pm Yes, they would. And yes, I meant that. Example:
https://i.postimg.cc/ZqjT3bRW/fd.jpg
Thank you!
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by mervinj7 »

jumbopapa wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:51 pm What is the best way to handle transferring a Roth IRA from Vanguard in terms of exchanging the funds? I want to minimize my time out of the market. Here are my three ideas:

- Convert VTSAX (my only holding) to VTI, transfer in kind, sell, buy FZROX (this should only take a single day)
- Transfer VTSAX in kind, sell, buy FZROX (this would likely take two days)
- Transfer VTSAX in kind and keep it, all new contributions would be FZROX

Am I overthinking this? I'm just a little uneasy about taking anytime out of the market to handle the exchanging of funds.
Yes, you are overthinking it.
Option 4: Convert VTSAX to VTI. Transfer in kind. Keep VTI. It's commission-free at Fidelity anyway. You can even add to your position.
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by MotoTrojan »

snowman wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:14 pm
jumbopapa wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:27 am I can take the more expensive MM in exchange for the other benefits seeing that I have little cash on hand at any given time.
There is no reason for you to do that. Just keep your MMF at Vanguard, move the rest to Fidelity, and set up ACH between Fidelity and Vanguard. You get the best of both worlds.
I also don't hold much cash so I probably come out ahead having my entire checking account also earning Fidelity's lower yield, than if I had to manually move funds from VG to checking.
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by lstone19 »

vtMaps wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:03 pm
jumbopapa wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:56 pm You're saying I can sell VTSAX and immediately buy FZROX?
Yes. you are trading one for the other. The transaction will occur at market close after you place the order to swap. --vtMaps
No, I don't below so. Same day exchanges can be done within a fund family but I believe when two families are involved, the sell happens one day, the buy the next. I recall trying to do that once and getting a message before confirming the trade saying that would be how it worked.
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by PatrickA5 »

lstone19 wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:07 pm
vtMaps wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:03 pm
jumbopapa wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:56 pm You're saying I can sell VTSAX and immediately buy FZROX?
Yes. you are trading one for the other. The transaction will occur at market close after you place the order to swap. --vtMaps
No, I don't below so. Same day exchanges can be done within a fund family but I believe when two families are involved, the sell happens one day, the buy the next. I recall trying to do that once and getting a message before confirming the trade saying that would be how it worked.
I had to sell my VG Lifestrategy fund and buy the Fidelity fund I wanted. I was basically out of the market for one day.
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Leif »

vtMaps wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:03 pm
jumbopapa wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:56 pm You're saying I can sell VTSAX and immediately buy FZROX?
Yes. you are trading one for the other. The transaction will occur at market close after you place the order to swap. --vtMaps
Perhaps it is different with Vanguard mutual funds.

However, in my experience, I sold a DFA mutual fund and purchased a Fidelity mutual fund. I put it in as an exchange. However, it took 2 days to complete. One day to sell my DFA and the next day to buy Fidelity.
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by baliktad »

jumbopapa wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:56 pm Okay, wasn't sure if Fidelity would let me buy FZROX until the the order settled. You're saying I can sell VTSAX and immediately buy FZROX?
Fidelity documents the steps here: https://www.fidelity.com/webcontent/ap0 ... notherfund
How do I sell a fund and use the proceeds to buy another fund?

When selling a mutual fund for another fund in the same family, you are selling the mutual fund you own and using the proceeds to purchase another fund in the same fund family.

When selling a mutual fund to purchase a fund in a different family, you are selling the mutual fund you own and using the proceeds to purchase another fund in a different fund family. Since you are performing a cross family trade, the settlement date for the sale will differ from the settlement date for the purchase. Typically, cross family trades execute over two business days.

To perform a sell to buy:
  • Select Accounts & Trade > Trade. If you have more than one eligible account, select the account in which you want to buy the fund. Click Trade Mutual Funds. Click "Sell a Mutual Fund and use the proceeds to buy another mutual fund," then click Continue.
  • In the Sell area, select a mutual fund that you own from the drop-down list, then enter a quantity for the order. You can specify a number of shares or a dollar amount to sell, or you can choose to sell all shares. Note that the amount you actually receive may be lower after any fees and commissions are deducted. Unless you're selling all shares, you can choose specific shares to sell.
  • In the Buy area, select a mutual fund you want to buy. To buy additional shares of a fund you already own, select the fund from the drop-down list. To buy shares of a fund you do not currently own, enter a new mutual fund symbol in the text box.
  • When you're ready, click Preview Order. Review your order details carefully. If the order is correct, click Place Order.
Since VTSAX and FZROX are from different fund families, the transaction will take 2 business days:

Day 0: initiate trade
Day 1: Sell VTSAX order settles
Day 2: Buy FZROX order settles
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BogleMelon
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by BogleMelon »

Something that Fidelity lacks, and was available in Vanguard: The ability to transfer from one Roth IRA to another while both is in Fidelity online (you would have to call CS to do it). This is important to me as I have one Roth I consider for EF and short term goals (conservative AA), the other is for retirement purposes (Aggressive AA).

I have just emailed them to ask to add this option. Let's see how they would respond.
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather
acegolfer
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by acegolfer »

Question: With Fidelity, can I sell stocks and withdraw the cash from ATM immediately?
lstone19
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by lstone19 »

acegolfer wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:53 am Question: With Fidelity, can I sell stocks and withdraw the cash from ATM immediately?
If it's a margin account, absolutely but since it takes two days for a stock sale to sell, you may find yourself with a margin balance for a couple of days.

For a cash account, I'm not sure. I am fairly certain in a cash account, I can sell a stock (two-day settlement) and immediately use the proceeds to buy a mutual fund (one-day settlement) and even though that would give me a negative cash balance for a day, they'll allow it and since it's not a margin account, no margin interest (AFAIK). But not at all sure if that cash is available for immediate withdrawal.
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Minty »

ecbxqxjy wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:44 pm
heartwood wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:48 am I did call Fidelity last week and asked to either have an ATM-only card, or have my purchase/cash advance limits reduced to $1 each. The rep noted he'd never heard of anyone wanting to reduce their limits. I spent some time on hold while he queried others, then said he'd submit a request upward to see if it could be done and I should check back in 24 - 48 hrs.

Your mileage may vary, but apparently there is no ATM only card, no way to reduce limits. :oops:
What I'm doing as an extra measure of security on the debit card is keeping it locked, I think this is a newer feature based on the note on the Manage Cash page. Since we only use it for very rare ATM withdrawals, all I have to do is unlock it prior to that.
After some long conversations today, I learned the debit cards can be locked online, unlocked by phone (although not by app) for individual ATM withdrawals, and then immediately locked again. I prefer to never, ever use debit cards, both because of the risk of fraud and the forfeiture of credit card bonuses and protections. But leaving the debit card locked except for the few times a year I want to withdraw cash seems to be a reasonably safe alternative.
Core Four w/ nominal bonds & TIPS. Refi Rampage: Purchase: 4.125% 30 -> R1 3% 20 -> R2 2.375% 15 -> R3 shopping
jumbopapa
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by jumbopapa »

Is there any concern with keeping money in the Fidelity money market funds that lack FDIC insurance? I believe SIPC is an equivalent substitute.
bck63
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bck63 »

jumbopapa wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:06 am Is there any concern with keeping money in the Fidelity money market funds that lack FDIC insurance? I believe SIPC is an equivalent substitute.
I use the treasury only money market fund. If the US government defaulted on its debts, would the FDIC be relevant?

Because of high Fidelity MMF expense ratios, I keep a minimum in the treasury MMF, enough for day-to-day stuff for a week or so, and keep the rest in ishares SHV short term treasury etf. ER is 0.15% and current yield is 1.52%. Rock solid.
mervinj7
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by mervinj7 »

bck63 wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:36 pm
jumbopapa wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:06 am Is there any concern with keeping money in the Fidelity money market funds that lack FDIC insurance? I believe SIPC is an equivalent substitute.
I use the treasury only money market fund. If the US government defaulted on its debts, would the FDIC be relevant?

Because of high Fidelity MMF expense ratios, I keep a minimum in the treasury MMF, enough for day-to-day stuff for a week or so, and keep the rest in ishares SHV short term treasury etf. ER is 0.15% and current yield is 1.52%. Rock solid.
Why not go all the way and built an auto-rolling treasury ladder? Save on the 0.15% ER!
bck63
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bck63 »

mervinj7 wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:39 pm
bck63 wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:36 pm
jumbopapa wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:06 am Is there any concern with keeping money in the Fidelity money market funds that lack FDIC insurance? I believe SIPC is an equivalent substitute.
I use the treasury only money market fund. If the US government defaulted on its debts, would the FDIC be relevant?

Because of high Fidelity MMF expense ratios, I keep a minimum in the treasury MMF, enough for day-to-day stuff for a week or so, and keep the rest in ishares SHV short term treasury etf. ER is 0.15% and current yield is 1.52%. Rock solid.
Why not go all the way and built an auto-rolling treasury ladder? Save on the 0.15% ER!
mervinj7 -

I've thought about it and looked into it a little. The problem is that I'm an older (56) fairly small investor who saves in chunks of about $1,000 per paycheck, some of which goes to stocks and bonds, and I think there's a $1K minimum on treasuries at Fidelity? So it would make it hard for me to buy them regularly. I figured SHV was a reasonable alternative.

Any thoughts on how I can get around the above?
mervinj7
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by mervinj7 »

bck63 wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:40 am mervinj7 -

I've thought about it and looked into it a little. The problem is that I'm an older (56) fairly small investor who saves in chunks of about $1,000 per paycheck, some of which goes to stocks and bonds, and I think there's a $1K minimum on treasuries at Fidelity? So it would make it hard for me to buy them regularly. I figured SHV was a reasonable alternative.

Any thoughts on how I can get around the above?
SHV may be appropriate in your case for regular purchases. However, once you reach $1k, you can then purchase a single bond. Personally, I use FDLXX until I'm ready to purchase a bond.
bck63
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bck63 »

mervinj7 wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:53 pm
bck63 wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:40 am mervinj7 -

I've thought about it and looked into it a little. The problem is that I'm an older (56) fairly small investor who saves in chunks of about $1,000 per paycheck, some of which goes to stocks and bonds, and I think there's a $1K minimum on treasuries at Fidelity? So it would make it hard for me to buy them regularly. I figured SHV was a reasonable alternative.

Any thoughts on how I can get around the above?
SHV may be appropriate in your case for regular purchases. However, once you reach $1k, you can then purchase a single bond. Personally, I use FDLXX until I'm ready to purchase a bond.
That's a good idea! Thanks.
MotoTrojan
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by MotoTrojan »

bck63 wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:04 pm
mervinj7 wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:53 pm
bck63 wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:40 am mervinj7 -

I've thought about it and looked into it a little. The problem is that I'm an older (56) fairly small investor who saves in chunks of about $1,000 per paycheck, some of which goes to stocks and bonds, and I think there's a $1K minimum on treasuries at Fidelity? So it would make it hard for me to buy them regularly. I figured SHV was a reasonable alternative.

Any thoughts on how I can get around the above?
SHV may be appropriate in your case for regular purchases. However, once you reach $1k, you can then purchase a single bond. Personally, I use FDLXX until I'm ready to purchase a bond.
That's a good idea! Thanks.
Sounds like you are covered but just an fyi that Fidelity isn't limiting you via $1K minimum on treasuries, that is the value of one bill/bond and thus a minimum for anyone. You actually will receive $1K at maturity, so you pay slightly less with the difference being your interest earned.
bck63
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bck63 »

MotoTrojan wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:21 pm
bck63 wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:04 pm
mervinj7 wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:53 pm
bck63 wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:40 am mervinj7 -

I've thought about it and looked into it a little. The problem is that I'm an older (56) fairly small investor who saves in chunks of about $1,000 per paycheck, some of which goes to stocks and bonds, and I think there's a $1K minimum on treasuries at Fidelity? So it would make it hard for me to buy them regularly. I figured SHV was a reasonable alternative.

Any thoughts on how I can get around the above?
SHV may be appropriate in your case for regular purchases. However, once you reach $1k, you can then purchase a single bond. Personally, I use FDLXX until I'm ready to purchase a bond.
That's a good idea! Thanks.
Sounds like you are covered but just an fyi that Fidelity isn't limiting you via $1K minimum on treasuries, that is the value of one bill/bond and thus a minimum for anyone. You actually will receive $1K at maturity, so you pay slightly less with the difference being your interest earned.
Thank you.
Spirit Rider
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Spirit Rider »

MotoTrojan wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:21 pm Sounds like you are covered but just an fyi that Fidelity isn't limiting you via $1K minimum on treasuries, that is the value of one bill/bond and thus a minimum for anyone. You actually will receive $1K at maturity, so you pay slightly less with the difference being your interest earned.
This is not true. Since 4/7/2008 Treasuries have been available in $100 increments. Fidelity may have a $1,000 minimum, but Treasury Direct does not.
MotoTrojan
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by MotoTrojan »

Spirit Rider wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:31 pm
MotoTrojan wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:21 pm Sounds like you are covered but just an fyi that Fidelity isn't limiting you via $1K minimum on treasuries, that is the value of one bill/bond and thus a minimum for anyone. You actually will receive $1K at maturity, so you pay slightly less with the difference being your interest earned.
This is not true. Since 4/7/2008 Treasuries have been available in $100 increments. Fidelity may have a $1,000 minimum, but Treasury Direct does not.
Interesting, thanks for the clarification.
radiowave
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by radiowave »

Minty wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:42 pm
After some long conversations today, I learned the debit cards can be locked online, unlocked by phone (although not by app) for individual ATM withdrawals, and then immediately locked again. I prefer to never, ever use debit cards, both because of the risk of fraud and the forfeiture of credit card bonuses and protections. But leaving the debit card locked except for the few times a year I want to withdraw cash seems to be a reasonably safe alternative.
I know this is a "Fidelity as a one stop shop" thread, but Bank of America still has an ATM only card (no debit function) if that is a concern.
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Kevin M
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by Kevin M »

Spirit Rider wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:31 pm
MotoTrojan wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:21 pm Sounds like you are covered but just an fyi that Fidelity isn't limiting you via $1K minimum on treasuries, that is the value of one bill/bond and thus a minimum for anyone. You actually will receive $1K at maturity, so you pay slightly less with the difference being your interest earned.
This is not true. Since 4/7/2008 Treasuries have been available in $100 increments. Fidelity may have a $1,000 minimum, but Treasury Direct does not.
Do you know of any other broker who sells Treasuries in increments smaller than $1K face value? TD is not a broker--things work very differently at TD (you can also buy savings bonds there, but not at a broker). The other two brokers I've used to buy and sell Treasuries, Vanguard and Schwab, also sell in increments of $1K face value. All three of these brokers sell one bond as $1K of face value. So I think what MotoTrojan said is correct for brokers and in the context of this thread--I doubt anyone will make an argument for using TD as a one stop shop.

Kevin
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boston10
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by boston10 »

Minty wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:42 pm
ecbxqxjy wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:44 pm
heartwood wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:48 am I did call Fidelity last week and asked to either have an ATM-only card, or have my purchase/cash advance limits reduced to $1 each. The rep noted he'd never heard of anyone wanting to reduce their limits. I spent some time on hold while he queried others, then said he'd submit a request upward to see if it could be done and I should check back in 24 - 48 hrs.

Your mileage may vary, but apparently there is no ATM only card, no way to reduce limits. :oops:
What I'm doing as an extra measure of security on the debit card is keeping it locked, I think this is a newer feature based on the note on the Manage Cash page. Since we only use it for very rare ATM withdrawals, all I have to do is unlock it prior to that.
After some long conversations today, I learned the debit cards can be locked online, unlocked by phone (although not by app) for individual ATM withdrawals, and then immediately locked again. I prefer to never, ever use debit cards, both because of the risk of fraud and the forfeiture of credit card bonuses and protections. But leaving the debit card locked except for the few times a year I want to withdraw cash seems to be a reasonably safe alternative.
I also prefer to use credit cards because of the bonuses and protections, but let's be sure we're properly representing the fraud risk here. The risk of fraud is a maximum of $50 under the Uniform Commercial Code. My bet is that most institutions don't actually charge that $50 in the event of fraud and just fully reimburse you. There's a "hassle" risk to fraud in having a debit card, but there isn't a material financial risk.
boston10
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by boston10 »

bck63 wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:36 pm
jumbopapa wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:06 am Is there any concern with keeping money in the Fidelity money market funds that lack FDIC insurance? I believe SIPC is an equivalent substitute.
I use the treasury only money market fund. If the US government defaulted on its debts, would the FDIC be relevant?

Because of high Fidelity MMF expense ratios, I keep a minimum in the treasury MMF, enough for day-to-day stuff for a week or so, and keep the rest in ishares SHV short term treasury etf. ER is 0.15% and current yield is 1.52%. Rock solid.
With MM funds, ERs are irrelevant. Focus on daily yield.

With SHV, you're dealing with capital gains, and you're subject to the liquidity risk of a derivative security (you aren't buying US government debt directly), you get a dividend that's issued monthly and is not pro-rated based on the number of days you held the security, Fidelity won't auto-liquidate. These are not remotely comparable products.

And what are you getting out of it? SPRXX's current yield is 1.48%, so... 4 basis points.
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JoMoney
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by JoMoney »

boston10 wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:49 pm
bck63 wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:36 pm
jumbopapa wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:06 am Is there any concern with keeping money in the Fidelity money market funds that lack FDIC insurance? I believe SIPC is an equivalent substitute.
I use the treasury only money market fund. If the US government defaulted on its debts, would the FDIC be relevant?

Because of high Fidelity MMF expense ratios, I keep a minimum in the treasury MMF, enough for day-to-day stuff for a week or so, and keep the rest in ishares SHV short term treasury etf. ER is 0.15% and current yield is 1.52%. Rock solid.
With MM funds, ERs are irrelevant. Focus on daily yield.

With SHV, you're dealing with capital gains, and you're subject to the liquidity risk of a derivative security (you aren't buying US government debt directly), you get a dividend that's issued monthly and is not pro-rated based on the number of days you held the security, Fidelity won't auto-liquidate. These are not remotely comparable products.

And what are you getting out of it? SPRXX's current yield is 1.48%, so... 4 basis points.
I'm curious why use the SHV ETF with a 0.15% ER while Fidelity has a Short-Term Treasury Index fund (FUMBX) with no minimums, a 0.03% ER, no market spread, and can invest fractional amounts that don't add up to a full ETF share.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
bck63
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bck63 »

boston10 wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:49 pm
bck63 wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:36 pm
jumbopapa wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:06 am Is there any concern with keeping money in the Fidelity money market funds that lack FDIC insurance? I believe SIPC is an equivalent substitute.
I use the treasury only money market fund. If the US government defaulted on its debts, would the FDIC be relevant?

Because of high Fidelity MMF expense ratios, I keep a minimum in the treasury MMF, enough for day-to-day stuff for a week or so, and keep the rest in ishares SHV short term treasury etf. ER is 0.15% and current yield is 1.52%. Rock solid.
With MM funds, ERs are irrelevant. Focus on daily yield.

With SHV, you're dealing with capital gains, and you're subject to the liquidity risk of a derivative security (you aren't buying US government debt directly), you get a dividend that's issued monthly and is not pro-rated based on the number of days you held the security, Fidelity won't auto-liquidate. These are not remotely comparable products.

And what are you getting out of it? SPRXX's current yield is 1.48%, so... 4 basis points.
Thank you for this. Question: is every etf and mutual fund a "derivative security?" I know SHV is not a money market fund. Do you think it's appropriate to use for savings goals of 1-2 years? When might a product like SHV be useful in your opinion?
bck63
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bck63 »

JoMoney wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:04 pm
boston10 wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:49 pm
bck63 wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:36 pm
jumbopapa wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:06 am Is there any concern with keeping money in the Fidelity money market funds that lack FDIC insurance? I believe SIPC is an equivalent substitute.
I use the treasury only money market fund. If the US government defaulted on its debts, would the FDIC be relevant?

Because of high Fidelity MMF expense ratios, I keep a minimum in the treasury MMF, enough for day-to-day stuff for a week or so, and keep the rest in ishares SHV short term treasury etf. ER is 0.15% and current yield is 1.52%. Rock solid.
With MM funds, ERs are irrelevant. Focus on daily yield.

With SHV, you're dealing with capital gains, and you're subject to the liquidity risk of a derivative security (you aren't buying US government debt directly), you get a dividend that's issued monthly and is not pro-rated based on the number of days you held the security, Fidelity won't auto-liquidate. These are not remotely comparable products.

And what are you getting out of it? SPRXX's current yield is 1.48%, so... 4 basis points.
I'm curious why use the SHV ETF with a 0.15% ER while Fidelity has a Short-Term Treasury Index fund (FUMBX) with no minimums, a 0.03% ER, no market spread, and can invest fractional amounts that don't add up to a full ETF share.
I have money in SHV for short-term goals. The duration of FUMBX is 2.6 years. The duration for SHV is 0.4 years. Would FUMBX still be appropriate for any savings goals less than two-and-a-half years?
boston10
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by boston10 »

bck63 wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:09 pm
boston10 wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:49 pm
bck63 wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:36 pm
jumbopapa wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:06 am Is there any concern with keeping money in the Fidelity money market funds that lack FDIC insurance? I believe SIPC is an equivalent substitute.
I use the treasury only money market fund. If the US government defaulted on its debts, would the FDIC be relevant?

Because of high Fidelity MMF expense ratios, I keep a minimum in the treasury MMF, enough for day-to-day stuff for a week or so, and keep the rest in ishares SHV short term treasury etf. ER is 0.15% and current yield is 1.52%. Rock solid.
With MM funds, ERs are irrelevant. Focus on daily yield.

With SHV, you're dealing with capital gains, and you're subject to the liquidity risk of a derivative security (you aren't buying US government debt directly), you get a dividend that's issued monthly and is not pro-rated based on the number of days you held the security, Fidelity won't auto-liquidate. These are not remotely comparable products.

And what are you getting out of it? SPRXX's current yield is 1.48%, so... 4 basis points.
Thank you for this. Question: is every etf and mutual fund a "derivative security?" I know SHV is not a money market fund. Do you think it's appropriate to use for savings goals of 1-2 years? When might a product like SHV be useful in your opinion?
"Derivative security" may actually be an imprecise term in this context; if so I'm sure others will correct me. My point is that the liquidity of that particular instrument (SHV) is not actually backed or guaranteed by any institution - it's traded on an open market with market-driven bid/ask spreads.

In contrast, with a direct Treasury bond, your ability to redeem at a known price is backed directly by the federal government. And with MMFs, you have a price of $1 backed by the full weight of the financial institution that issues it (in this case, Fidelity). If Fidelity MMFs break the buck or the federal government won't redeem its bonds, it's probably time to buy gold bars and stockpile ammo.

For savings goals of 1-2 years, I don't think SHV is a terrible idea but it also just doesn't make a ton of sense given the other products on the market with higher yields and greater security and liquidity. It might be fine as part of a broad diversified retirement portfolio, but for that use case I prefer simplicity (three fund portfolio).
bck63
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Re: Fidelity as a one stop shop

Post by bck63 »

boston10 wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:22 pm
bck63 wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:09 pm
boston10 wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:49 pm
bck63 wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:36 pm
jumbopapa wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:06 am Is there any concern with keeping money in the Fidelity money market funds that lack FDIC insurance? I believe SIPC is an equivalent substitute.
I use the treasury only money market fund. If the US government defaulted on its debts, would the FDIC be relevant?

Because of high Fidelity MMF expense ratios, I keep a minimum in the treasury MMF, enough for day-to-day stuff for a week or so, and keep the rest in ishares SHV short term treasury etf. ER is 0.15% and current yield is 1.52%. Rock solid.
With MM funds, ERs are irrelevant. Focus on daily yield.

With SHV, you're dealing with capital gains, and you're subject to the liquidity risk of a derivative security (you aren't buying US government debt directly), you get a dividend that's issued monthly and is not pro-rated based on the number of days you held the security, Fidelity won't auto-liquidate. These are not remotely comparable products.

And what are you getting out of it? SPRXX's current yield is 1.48%, so... 4 basis points.
Thank you for this. Question: is every etf and mutual fund a "derivative security?" I know SHV is not a money market fund. Do you think it's appropriate to use for savings goals of 1-2 years? When might a product like SHV be useful in your opinion?
"Derivative security" may actually be an imprecise term in this context; if so I'm sure others will correct me. My point is that the liquidity of that particular instrument (SHV) is not actually backed or guaranteed by any institution - it's traded on an open market with market-driven bid/ask spreads.

In contrast, with a direct Treasury bond, your ability to redeem at a known price is backed directly by the federal government. And with MMFs, you have a price of $1 backed by the full weight of the financial institution that issues it (in this case, Fidelity). If Fidelity MMFs break the buck or the federal government won't redeem its bonds, it's probably time to buy gold bars and stockpile ammo.

For savings goals of 1-2 years, I don't think SHV is a terrible idea but it also just doesn't make a ton of sense given the other products on the market with higher yields and greater security and liquidity. It might be fine as part of a broad diversified retirement portfolio, but for that use case I prefer simplicity (three fund portfolio).
Thank you boston10.
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