Side Hustle? Passive Income?

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BeanCity
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Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by BeanCity »

I'm curious to hear of any side hustles or passive income strategies that Bogleheads pursue to either supplement their W2 job or eventually not have to work their traditional W2 job. I'm currently 29, have zero debt other than my house, and make a six-figure salary. I have a 50%+ savings rate and enjoy being frugal. I like my job, and intend to continue working for the foreseeable future, but also like the idea of not having to work if I decide 5, 10, 15 years down the line. I am looking for new strategies now to plant the seed, and watch it grow over a 5, 10, 15 year time frame.

Are there bogleheads that can relate to this desire?
MotoTrojan
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by MotoTrojan »

BeanCity wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:07 am I'm curious to hear of any side hustles or passive income strategies that Bogleheads pursue to either supplement their W2 job or eventually not have to work their traditional W2 job. I'm currently 29, have zero debt other than my house, and make a six-figure salary. I have a 50%+ savings rate and enjoy being frugal. I like my job, and intend to continue working for the foreseeable future, but also like the idea of not having to work if I decide 5, 10, 15 years down the line. I am looking for new strategies now to plant the seed, and watch it grow over a 5, 10, 15 year time frame.

Are there bogleheads that can relate to this desire?
Also curious. I churn bank bonuses and credit cards. In the past 2 months I’ve netted around $3500 after tax.
ny_rn
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by ny_rn »

Instagram business and real estate. The Instagram business feeds the real estate.
HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

Real estate broker on the side.
stan1
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by stan1 »

ny_rn wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:04 am Instagram business and real estate. The Instagram business feeds the real estate.
I wouldn't want you to give away your secret sauce, but what is an Instagram business that feeds a real estate business? I have seen gym-fit, attractive people on Instagram with several 100K followers who post "thirst trap" pictures of themselves on beaches around the world intermixed with real estate listings back home. Gotta admire the hustle and hard work to create a personal brand that way but I've always wondered how many leads and sales actually come out of it?
Freefun
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by Freefun »

I’ve found the podcasts at side hustle school quite interesting.

https://sidehustleschool.com/podcasts/
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runner3081
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by runner3081 »

Buy stuff at garage sales and resell online.
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by sschullo »

If you own an extra car, have it available on this website: https://turo.com
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GCD
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by GCD »

BeanCity wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:07 am I'm curious to hear of any side hustles or passive income strategies that Bogleheads pursue to either supplement their W2 job or eventually not have to work their traditional W2 job.
Well, aside from the obvious one of investing where my investment income has exceeded my W2 for several years now, I don't have much insight on passive income.

I'm somewhat familiar with self-publishing, but if you self-publish you are also in charge of marketing. Without a publishing house backing you it can be challenging. I have a friend who makes about $12,000 a year from books he self-publishes, but he is a minor celebrity in a niche sport so his full time sports job also serves as marketing for his books. Once you get the money flowing you don't have to write anymore, but you still have to market.

A side hustle will depend on your skills. You know, like nunchuck skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills. I used to cut down trees in my spare time, but not everyone has a chainsaw and a pick-up truck laying around.

I am in awe of this kid who makes 22 million posting on Youtube: https://www.businessinsider.com/ryan-to ... be-2018-12. But I must confess that I seem not to have a shred of insight into what makes the modern American vegetate in front of Youtube. I never would have thought of this. I am out of touch with the masses I suppose.
Jack FFR1846
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

My hobbies tend to make some money. The cool thing is that these are things I like to do, so it doesn't matter how much I make.

Electronic/metal scrapping: I love pulling things apart. I get discarded electronics and pull them apart, separating the various types of materials. When I've got enough, I make a run to the local electronic scrapyard and bring home a hundred or two. After several of these trips, I have enough steel scrap to make another $50 just for things like desktop cases. Now and then, I'll take working stuff, bundle it together and put it on craigslist. As scrap value is the lowest value that most stuff has, it's usually worth it to throw stuff together and get something for it.

Firewood: I forest manage my land, which by itself saves me $1000 a year in taxes. I'll use the firewood for my own use which saves me thousands in heating oil. Since I split all the wood by hand (no machines), I will end up with pieces that I simply can't split. I pile these separately and when I've got about a cord and a half, sell it (you pick up) for $100. The low price for that volume tends to get it sold quickly without hassle. This is a good portion of my exercise as well. No gym payments for me. I remember the Rocky movie where he's training in Russia, splitting wood. Well....that's me. :D

I don't do this anymore, but for several years, I would buy, modify, paint, fix guitars mainly using craigslist. I learned how to level and crown frets on guitars (thanks Ron Kirn) and with a DIY painting background would repaint in nitrocellulose lacquer, which is all the rage these days. I'd get guitars on craigslist, pawn shops, guitar center, used guitar shops and mainly sell on craigslist. I actually picked up somewhat of a following with several repeat buyers and one guy who tracked me down to work on his guitars. The per hour pay was low but the risk was zero as I would always build guitars the way I wanted them to be. So if nobody else wanted a low cost replica Mark Knopfler strat, I'd play it myself. I probably sold two or three dozen of these guitars. The vast majority were Mexican strats with Mexican teles being next and when I wanted to kick myself, I'd do a Squier (which take a full hour to get the frets and neck squared away.....they're such crap!).
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ny_rn
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by ny_rn »

stan1 wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:59 am
ny_rn wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:04 am Instagram business and real estate. The Instagram business feeds the real estate.
I wouldn't want you to give away your secret sauce, but what is an Instagram business that feeds a real estate business? I have seen gym-fit, attractive people on Instagram with several 100K followers who post "thirst trap" pictures of themselves on beaches around the world intermixed with real estate listings back home. Gotta admire the hustle and hard work to create a personal brand that way but I've always wondered how many leads and sales actually come out of it?
Hahaha! No "thirst trap" photos here. It's a medical supply company servicing a small niche.

I use the profits from the business to make down payments on rental properties.
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mattyfu1
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by mattyfu1 »

I feel that real estate investing gets a bad rap on this forum. However, I own 2 rental properties and make passive income each month.
I rarely IF EVER get the midnight calls, and if I do I have a network that can handle it. It is not stressful or time consuming.

The most important thing is to get the right renter in there and have a network to fix anything. Once again, not stressful and can be a huge money maker.

-MattyFu
pennylane
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by pennylane »

real estate agent on the side, good side income.. expenses for the year are between 2-4k but income is usually over 30k and minimal time dedicated to it. I could make much more but I just go for the low hanging fruit and easy opportunities.
Mike Scott
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by Mike Scott »

"Side hustle" and "passive income" seem to in direct conflict. Side hustle = extra work / second job which I do sometimes. Passive income is return on investments etc which do not require extra activity on my part.
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Sandtrap
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by Sandtrap »

Some ideas:
Website design, other online endeavors. (not passive, depends on one's skillset).
Part time "wedding photography" (example of expanding one's skillsets in areas of expertise) (not passive).
Trade's work on the weekends, days off. (not passive)
Construction contracting.
Buy apartment buildings, collect rent.
. . . . Financial planner/adviser? :shock:
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Sandtrap
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by Sandtrap »

mattyfu1 wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:16 am I feel that real estate investing gets a bad rap on this forum. However, I own 2 rental properties and make passive income each month.
I rarely IF EVER get the midnight calls, and if I do I have a network that can handle it. It is not stressful or time consuming.

The most important thing is to get the right renter in there and have a network to fix anything. Once again, not stressful and can be a huge money maker.

-MattyFu
+1
Yes. For the right people with the right skillset and willingness to be in "business".
Many on the forum support diversification of income stream which includes R/E investing in various forms. :D
Why do you feel R/E investing get's a bad rap on this forum? (curious)
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Mike Scott
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by Mike Scott »

There are a lot of folks here who do rentals. I think it's the idea that the rental business is passive income that gets confused.
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Sandtrap
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by Sandtrap »

Mike Scott wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:52 am There are a lot of folks here who do rentals. I think it's the idea that the rental business is passive income that gets confused.
sometimes true :D
+1
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Jack FFR1846
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

I got so caught up in my hobbies, I forgot about the true passive (mostly) income sources.

Low Balance forgiveness credit cards: Not a lot, but $8 a month in gas, always on a nice sunny day
Tradelines: For me, maybe a grand a year. Others make thousands.
Manufactured spending: I combine with gas points at the supermarket. Maybe a few hundred a year.
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Socal77
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by Socal77 »

Sandtrap wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:55 am
Mike Scott wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:52 am There are a lot of folks here who do rentals. I think it's the idea that the rental business is passive income that gets confused.
sometimes true :D
+1
Plus the oft compared % returns of stocks vs. real estate.
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mattyfu1
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by mattyfu1 »

Mike Scott wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:52 am There are a lot of folks here who do rentals. I think it's the idea that the rental business is passive income that gets confused.
true , well said
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mattyfu1
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by mattyfu1 »

Sandtrap wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:40 am
mattyfu1 wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:16 am I feel that real estate investing gets a bad rap on this forum. However, I own 2 rental properties and make passive income each month.
I rarely IF EVER get the midnight calls, and if I do I have a network that can handle it. It is not stressful or time consuming.

The most important thing is to get the right renter in there and have a network to fix anything. Once again, not stressful and can be a huge money maker.

-MattyFu
+1
Yes. For the right people with the right skillset and willingness to be in "business".
Many on the forum support diversification of income stream which includes R/E investing in various forms. :D
Why do you feel R/E investing get's a bad rap on this forum? (curious)
I find the most common response is the "11pm phone call for a clogged toilet."
It could be a vocal minority, however I have seen these types of answers a bunch.

I will say you NEED a partner or you yourself NEED to be beyond handy and someone who can actually work on houses.

-MattyFu
profet
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by profet »

I make/design ergonomic mechanical keyboards. Don't want to advertise here... but if you're curious you can google my username + 'keyboards'.
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unclescrooge
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by unclescrooge »

Sandtrap wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:55 am
Mike Scott wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:52 am There are a lot of folks here who do rentals. I think it's the idea that the rental business is passive income that gets confused.
sometimes true :D
+1
My rentals are 2200 miles away, in a state I've never been to. Definitely passive, but not without headaches.

PM just let me know there was a $400 bill to fix a broken heater.
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BeanCity
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by BeanCity »

I often think about purchasing rentals to supplement income and reinvest into other things....however.....I struggle with the idea that every dollar I put into a rental, it is not going into the stock market, which seems to return at least 8% over the long term (30 plus years).

I have extensively looked at houses for rentals, but all said and done, I don't think I would get an annual 8% return. What return do you model out when looking for rentals? If it's close to 8%, it seems like a no-brainer to continue to invest in the stock market.

Do you typically get better returns if you buy a duplex/triplex/4plex etc.? Is there an optimal size deal that keeps me from competing with investors and companies that do this exclusively? I am familiar with the DFW and Denver markets and they both seem very competitive.
ny_rn
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by ny_rn »

BeanCity wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:32 pm I often think about purchasing rentals to supplement income and reinvest into other things....however.....I struggle with the idea that every dollar I put into a rental, it is not going into the stock market, which seems to return at least 8% over the long term (30 plus years).

I have extensively looked at houses for rentals, but all said and done, I don't think I would get an annual 8% return. What return do you model out when looking for rentals? If it's close to 8%, it seems like a no-brainer to continue to invest in the stock market.

Do you typically get better returns if you buy a duplex/triplex/4plex etc.? Is there an optimal size deal that keeps me from competing with investors and companies that do this exclusively? I am familiar with the DFW and Denver markets and they both seem very competitive.
There are markets where you can get at least 10% return cash on cash. But, make no mistake. It is not as passive as index funds.

The real benefits are a combination of: income, depreciation, equity growth, appreciation and leverage.

Spend some time at https://www.biggerpockets.com
CppCoder
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by CppCoder »

I wrote a technical book. It makes me tens of dollars a quarter! I don't recommend this as an income stream. I literally could have made more money spending the time mowing the neighbors' yards. That said, I would do it again. My goal was never to make money from it.

When I was younger, I taught a graduate applied math course at night as an adjunct professor. I did it for fun, but it actually paid quite well. It's a pretty good gig if you enjoy teaching. Obviously, you need to have the academic and/or professional credentials to be taken seriously by the university.
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BeanCity
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by BeanCity »

I hear people say depreciation is a huge benefit to owning a rental. Doesn't that have to be paid back eventually when the house is sold?

I honestly don't mind with the rental being a side hustle rather than passive income. I will delete that the thought from my head for good that rentals are passive income.
ny_rn
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by ny_rn »

BeanCity wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:53 pm I hear people say depreciation is a huge benefit to owning a rental. Doesn't that have to be paid back eventually when the house is sold?

I honestly don't mind with the rental being a side hustle rather than passive income. I will delete that the thought from my head for good that rentals are passive income.
Sell it and take advantage of the 1031 exchange - https://apiexchange.com/what-is-a-1031-exchange/
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AerialWombat
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by AerialWombat »

I’m a big fan of multiple streams of income. In the wake of going bankrupt in ‘08 as a result of the real estate crash ( I was a full time broker and investor ), I became determined to never again put all my eggs in one basket.

I am fully self-employed, so it’s hard to say what’s side hustle and what’s day job. I don’t do any one thing every single day. However, here are my income streams that are individually capable of supporting my lifestyle...

—Wrote several non-fiction books in an obscure professional niche. All self-published on Amazon.

—Operate a website that provides a certain type of data to companies that need it for a monthly subscription fee.

—I teach continuing education units online every week to a small arena of related professions.

—I organize and host the largest nationwide series of live seminars in my niche.

—I do copywriting and create marketing plans for small to mid-size firms in my industry.

—I have acquired 5 rental doors over the past 3.5 years and the cash flow is sufficient for me to not freeze or starve.

I also have a few other projects that don’t yet spit out enough money to support me. Spreading yourself thin like this is NOT the optimal way to build businesses, focused effort is much better. But my needs are meager, and the paranoia strong, so many eggs in many baskets.

The broad theme, however, is to apply your talent or expertise to solve seemingly small problems in obscure areas that are actually big problems to the one person that has to deal with it every day.

Side note: I will second the Side Hustle School podcast. I’ve met Chris a few times, great guy with a great message and a great event.
TravelforFun
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by TravelforFun »

OP, you're 29, have a six-figure salary and no debt, save 50% of your income, and you're looking for side hustles? I'd say, 'Relax and enjoy life and time with your family and friends.' Balance is important.

TravelforFun
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by CryingHawaiian »

I’m a huge hockey fan and love playing. Decided to try refereeing for a season. Paid 50-60 per game in my area and there were numerous rinks within a 20 min drive from home.

Ultimately I wanted my weekends back from screaming parents who think their child is the next Wayne Gretzky. Couldn’t pay me enough to put up with that.
You get what you get and you don’t get upset
SlowlySaving
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by SlowlySaving »

ny_rn wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:43 pm There are markets where you can get at least 10% return cash on cash. But, make no mistake. It is not as passive as index funds.

The real benefits are a combination of: income, depreciation, equity growth, appreciation and leverage.

Spend some time at https://www.biggerpockets.com
I spent some time listening to the BiggerPockets podcast and learning from others on the community forum and was getting close to purchasing our first rental. We decided against it after all. The passive income from stock market investments is hard to beat. I am not a handyman type and decided to stick with what I know, stock investing.
CMD1
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by CMD1 »

It has become saturated but Amazon FBA, especially private labeling through Alibaba has done well for many...but not for everyone.
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by techland »

Rental property can be great IF you buy it at the right place, and or right time.

HCOL areas typically have better rental markets (easier to find tenants, better quality tenants, and higher rents). However, it is difficult to capture these benefits when you are starting out. And buying into these markets requires a lot of capital, and even if you have the the capital, your cap rate will be pretty bad starting out.

LCOL areas typically offer better cap rates, easier market entry, and require less capital. The downside of course is that you may have harder time finding tenants, or quality tenants.


The absolute BEST is if you can buy into a LCOL area, that becomes a HCOL area. This is hitting the bulls eye, and in my opinion is what you should be aiming for.

I'm very curious about the people who buy long distance rentals. This is something personally I would be scared to do, because I like to have a firm understanding of the local market/economy etc...I also do much of the maintenance myself. I suppose with a property management company this can work, but I would still be nervous about not being in tune with the area.
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by yangtui »

side hustle = second job

passive income = already rich

Your best bet is to get a primary career (hustle) that is scalable and save a large percentage of your income in an efficient manner (passive income). As a general rule, looking for loose change under seat cushions is probably a waste of time unless you really enjoy doing it.
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gunn_show
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by gunn_show »

Mike Scott wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:26 am "Side hustle" and "passive income" seem to in direct conflict. Side hustle = extra work / second job which I do sometimes. Passive income is return on investments etc which do not require extra activity on my part.
this. no such thing as side hustle AND passive income as a single idea. a side hustle takes work. a passive income does not. most all the suggestions in the thread require some form of work or labor or logging in or property management. charging bird scooters at night is a very popular side hustle, but based on the facebook forums and complaints of injuries and threats and gunpoint and theft, it most certainly is not passive.

if you don't want to work in ten years, then follow the mrmoneymustache 10 step plan and save your money, pay off your house, and live frugally.

just realize that you are asking about things that require very different methods and end goals
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DanMahowny
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by DanMahowny »

I have 2 side hustles.

1) Advantage gambler (blackjack, video poker, other)

2) YouTube channel for my dogs.
Funding secured
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BeanCity
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by BeanCity »

AerialWombat wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:58 pm I’m a big fan of multiple streams of income. In the wake of going bankrupt in ‘08 as a result of the real estate crash ( I was a full time broker and investor ), I became determined to never again put all my eggs in one basket.

I am fully self-employed, so it’s hard to say what’s side hustle and what’s day job. I don’t do any one thing every single day. However, here are my income streams that are individually capable of supporting my lifestyle...

—Wrote several non-fiction books in an obscure professional niche. All self-published on Amazon.

—Operate a website that provides a certain type of data to companies that need it for a monthly subscription fee.

—I teach continuing education units online every week to a small arena of related professions.

—I organize and host the largest nationwide series of live seminars in my niche.

—I do copywriting and create marketing plans for small to mid-size firms in my industry.

—I have acquired 5 rental doors over the past 3.5 years and the cash flow is sufficient for me to not freeze or starve.

I also have a few other projects that don’t yet spit out enough money to support me. Spreading yourself thin like this is NOT the optimal way to build businesses, focused effort is much better. But my needs are meager, and the paranoia strong, so many eggs in many baskets.

The broad theme, however, is to apply your talent or expertise to solve seemingly small problems in obscure areas that are actually big problems to the one person that has to deal with it every day.

Side note: I will second the Side Hustle School podcast. I’ve met Chris a few times, great guy with a great message and a great event.
I find this post to be incredibly helpful. I work in the oil and gas industry, which is extremely volatile as well, and thus makes me want to not put all my eggs in one basket as well.
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BeanCity
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by BeanCity »

TravelforFun wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:06 pm OP, you're 29, have a six-figure salary and no debt, save 50% of your income, and you're looking for side hustles? I'd say, 'Relax and enjoy life and time with your family and friends.' Balance is important.

TravelforFun
//The industry i work in is incredibly volatile. I have been laid off twice in the last 5 years, and could see getting laid off at some point again in the next few years (completely market driven)....therefore, I would like another stable income. I currently have the capital to make several large downpayments on properties, so I am heavily looking at this option.
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BeanCity
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by BeanCity »

gunn_show wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:43 pm
Mike Scott wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:26 am "Side hustle" and "passive income" seem to in direct conflict. Side hustle = extra work / second job which I do sometimes. Passive income is return on investments etc which do not require extra activity on my part.
this. no such thing as side hustle AND passive income as a single idea. a side hustle takes work. a passive income does not. most all the suggestions in the thread require some form of work or labor or logging in or property management. charging bird scooters at night is a very popular side hustle, but based on the facebook forums and complaints of injuries and threats and gunpoint and theft, it most certainly is not passive.

if you don't want to work in ten years, then follow the mrmoneymustache 10 step plan and save your money, pay off your house, and live frugally.

just realize that you are asking about things that require very different methods and end goals
To be clear, I am looking for a side hustle.
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BeanCity
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by BeanCity »

techland wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:39 pm Rental property can be great IF you buy it at the right place, and or right time.

HCOL areas typically have better rental markets (easier to find tenants, better quality tenants, and higher rents). However, it is difficult to capture these benefits when you are starting out. And buying into these markets requires a lot of capital, and even if you have the the capital, your cap rate will be pretty bad starting out.

LCOL areas typically offer better cap rates, easier market entry, and require less capital. The downside of course is that you may have harder time finding tenants, or quality tenants.


The absolute BEST is if you can buy into a LCOL area, that becomes a HCOL area. This is hitting the bulls eye, and in my opinion is what you should be aiming for.

I'm very curious about the people who buy long distance rentals. This is something personally I would be scared to do, because I like to have a firm understanding of the local market/economy etc...I also do much of the maintenance myself. I suppose with a property management company this can work, but I would still be nervous about not being in tune with the area.
Thank you for this response - i find it helpful. Could anyone provide examples of potential LCOL areas becoming HCOL areas? I currently am interested in DFW area, Kansas City, St. Louis, Missouri...places like this. Any expanded response would be appreciated on this topic.
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AerialWombat
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Location: Cash Canyon / Cashville

Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by AerialWombat »

BeanCity wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:48 pm
I find this post to be incredibly helpful. I work in the oil and gas industry, which is extremely volatile as well, and thus makes me want to not put all my eggs in one basket as well.
Let’s explore that.

Could you write a career guide for your industry?

Or a humorous tale of life in the oil fields?

Could you teach an online course? (I have a buddy that works for Tesoro offshore, but has a separate online course about sea floor surveying)

Even more basic, could you teach HAZWOPER 8-hour refresher classes or some other OSHA/MSHA mandated thing for your industry?

What about a job board? I used to know a nuke power guy that started a job board for road warriors in the nuclear refueling biz, and it eventually made him more money than his day job as a radiation sponge (I came from the nuclear world, long ago).

Just some ideas.
JGoneRiding
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by JGoneRiding »

SlowlySaving wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:55 pm
ny_rn wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:43 pm There are markets where you can get at least 10% return cash on cash. But, make no mistake. It is not as passive as index funds.

The real benefits are a combination of: income, depreciation, equity growth, appreciation and leverage.

Spend some time at https://www.biggerpockets.com
I spent some time listening to the BiggerPockets podcast and learning from others on the community forum and was getting close to purchasing our first rental. We decided against it after all. The passive income from stock market investments is hard to beat. I am not a handyman type and decided to stick with what I know, stock investing.
Most likely a good idea. While it helps to have my husband, I am reasonable handy. I wouldn't rec rentals to any one that thinks they need a "professional" to change out a dishwasher or hot water tank. That said the further I get into it the less I want to do myself. But for us they are moderately passive. What makes them work well is opm. I actually borrowed from one source for the down on our second and got it for 10% with an owner carried contract for up to 7 years at a very reasonable rate with the gentalmen agreement that I would refi as soon as I could (needed 25% ltv). When I refied I took out extra and used a chunk of that to buy our "forever" home and turn my house into rental. Really difficult to calculate my roi as I have so little hard cash outside of repairs into them. But really not even that as they fully cash flow themselves plus repairs plus extra.

Our best "side hussle" is boarding extra horses. I get almost as much as I do from a good rental with only tiny capital (about $700 to 900) for each horse. We had to do some fence change around and build shelters. And each needs $160 in stock tank and heater. I figure it takes 3 to 5 months to fully pay back the investment.
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BeanCity
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by BeanCity »

AerialWombat wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:27 pm
BeanCity wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:48 pm
I find this post to be incredibly helpful. I work in the oil and gas industry, which is extremely volatile as well, and thus makes me want to not put all my eggs in one basket as well.
Let’s explore that.

Could you write a career guide for your industry?

Or a humorous tale of life in the oil fields?

Could you teach an online course? (I have a buddy that works for Tesoro offshore, but has a separate online course about sea floor surveying)

Even more basic, could you teach HAZWOPER 8-hour refresher classes or some other OSHA/MSHA mandated thing for your industry?

What about a job board? I used to know a nuke power guy that started a job board for road warriors in the nuclear refueling biz, and it eventually made him more money than his day job as a radiation sponge (I came from the nuclear world, long ago).

Just some ideas.
I appreciate the response. I like these ideas, however, my goal is to do something that is not related to oil and gas, so that I can eventually peel myself away from it.

Writing a book of some sort related to O&G could be an option at some point in the future. I will think about this more.

I lean toward the idea of something having to do with real estate or something in the realm of websites/blogging.
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BeanCity
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by BeanCity »

JGoneRiding wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:02 pm
SlowlySaving wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:55 pm
ny_rn wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:43 pm There are markets where you can get at least 10% return cash on cash. But, make no mistake. It is not as passive as index funds.

The real benefits are a combination of: income, depreciation, equity growth, appreciation and leverage.

Spend some time at https://www.biggerpockets.com
I spent some time listening to the BiggerPockets podcast and learning from others on the community forum and was getting close to purchasing our first rental. We decided against it after all. The passive income from stock market investments is hard to beat. I am not a handyman type and decided to stick with what I know, stock investing.
Most likely a good idea. While it helps to have my husband, I am reasonable handy. I wouldn't rec rentals to any one that thinks they need a "professional" to change out a dishwasher or hot water tank. That said the further I get into it the less I want to do myself. But for us they are moderately passive. What makes them work well is opm. I actually borrowed from one source for the down on our second and got it for 10% with an owner carried contract for up to 7 years at a very reasonable rate with the gentalmen agreement that I would refi as soon as I could (needed 25% ltv). When I refied I took out extra and used a chunk of that to buy our "forever" home and turn my house into rental. Really difficult to calculate my roi as I have so little hard cash outside of repairs into them. But really not even that as they fully cash flow themselves plus repairs plus extra.

Our best "side hussle" is boarding extra horses. I get almost as much as I do from a good rental with only tiny capital (about $700 to 900) for each horse. We had to do some fence change around and build shelters. And each needs $160 in stock tank and heater. I figure it takes 3 to 5 months to fully pay back the investment.
Have you considered the use of a management company? Would anyone be willing to comment or elaborate on their experience with returns while using management companies?
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AerialWombat
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by AerialWombat »

BeanCity wrote: Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:57 pm
JGoneRiding wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:02 pm
SlowlySaving wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:55 pm
ny_rn wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:43 pm There are markets where you can get at least 10% return cash on cash. But, make no mistake. It is not as passive as index funds.

The real benefits are a combination of: income, depreciation, equity growth, appreciation and leverage.

Spend some time at https://www.biggerpockets.com
I spent some time listening to the BiggerPockets podcast and learning from others on the community forum and was getting close to purchasing our first rental. We decided against it after all. The passive income from stock market investments is hard to beat. I am not a handyman type and decided to stick with what I know, stock investing.
Most likely a good idea. While it helps to have my husband, I am reasonable handy. I wouldn't rec rentals to any one that thinks they need a "professional" to change out a dishwasher or hot water tank. That said the further I get into it the less I want to do myself. But for us they are moderately passive. What makes them work well is opm. I actually borrowed from one source for the down on our second and got it for 10% with an owner carried contract for up to 7 years at a very reasonable rate with the gentalmen agreement that I would refi as soon as I could (needed 25% ltv). When I refied I took out extra and used a chunk of that to buy our "forever" home and turn my house into rental. Really difficult to calculate my roi as I have so little hard cash outside of repairs into them. But really not even that as they fully cash flow themselves plus repairs plus extra.

Our best "side hussle" is boarding extra horses. I get almost as much as I do from a good rental with only tiny capital (about $700 to 900) for each horse. We had to do some fence change around and build shelters. And each needs $160 in stock tank and heater. I figure it takes 3 to 5 months to fully pay back the investment.
Have you considered the use of a management company? Would anyone be willing to comment or elaborate on their experience with returns while using management companies?
I price in 10% for property management on every acquisition. My cash on cash returns exceed 30%.
Topic Author
BeanCity
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by BeanCity »

Do you prefer single family homes or duplex/triplex/fourplex? Do you mind sharing your situation? 30% cash on cash seems outstanding.
bada bing
Posts: 106
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Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by bada bing »

I commercial fish in Alaska in the summer, using my vacation time. It is a good side hustle, but would
be hard for an inexperienced person to pick up. The main stumbling block is the cost of buying transferable
fishing rights. I have a limited entry salmon permit and halibut & black cod Individual fishing quotas. I have
been fishing since I was a kid, coming from a 3 generation commercial fishing family. I got my permit and
quota share as an original issuee. The market value to buy in for what I have now would be ~$300K and
it generates $40K-$50K per year for about 1 month of hard but pleasant work.

If a person wants to buy a job, there are lots of sole prop type gigs that are capital intensive but not time
intensive. I have a friend with a cnc plasma cutter and powder coating booth & oven. He makes good side
money doing projects on weekends. I know another that does welding on the side. I had a ding in my car
wind shield fixed last weekend by a retired guy advertising on craigs list. But a piece of equipment and figure
out how to do something in modest demand.
stimulacra
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Location: Houston

Re: Side Hustle? Passive Income?

Post by stimulacra »

I do online learning courses that generates royalty based on views once you exceed a certain threshold and the initial cash advance from the online publisher/platform.

Each course takes a solid month or two to develop and outline (on par with writing a book) and 3-4 days of studio time to record working with a producer. In my case they fly me out to a pleasant enough city, put me up for a week and give me a per diem while I record. I have to take a week off of work and use up some vacation time.

The initial advance is comparable to what a person's hourly rate is within their industry and helps offset the lost opportunity cost. The royalty can be nice if your topic or subject is relevant and your insights are unique enough and is transferable via the medium of online learning/instructional technology.

Lastly there is some value in terms of personal branding and/or professional bona fides that comes from listing the courses I've authored on my resume and LinkedIn. It gives some weight to any expertise you profess to claim within your field.

Writing a book definitely has more cachet and credibility but there is the potential for any content you create for online consumption to be repackaged in bound form.

In terms of displacing my day job, I would need to create a library of 25-30 courses before that becomes a realistic proposition. Each course realistically has a finite shelf life of 3-4 years before it needs to be updated or re-authored.

Regarding rental properties in the greater Houston market: I think all of the easy bargains within the beltway are long gone. The few people I know active in that market are looking way further out to 1960 or Grand Parkway, buying up pretty rough looking small complexes and/or condo units, refitting them with some contractor grade updates and renting them out to people more on the margins economically. I've rode shotgun on a couple of encounters and interactions (was interested in rentals for a bit) but realized I didn't have the requisite people skills (or the ability to take phone calls at all hours) to make it work.
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