Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

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ag1
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Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by ag1 »

My rental car got stuck in a flooded road and was totaled. I rent on American Express card and pay for amex premium coverage as primary and assumed it will all be taken care of.
After a couple of months I heard from the car rental company that amex is paying for approx 90% of the net ACV ( actual cash value) of the car and I need to pay for the remaining 10%. In my case it will be around 2000 USD. Amex says their ACV is different from car company ( which is avis)
That does not seem right to me that both come up with different values of ACV and stick me with the difference.

Do I have any options? What is the best course of action.

AG1
jminv
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by jminv »

First call Amex, tell them what hertz told you, and ask for advice. If they tell you to pay, id ask them to look into claim further . I say that since you said you heard about it from hertz not Amex. Don’t pay Avis before doing so. Whatever agreement Amex and avis have come to might end the claim and hertz might be just be looking for more money out of you. If Amex isn’t helpful, complain up the chain since you bought premium protection for a reason.

So run it through Amex, not through Avis.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by RickBoglehead »

I don't think Hertz told the OP anything... :wink:
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6Pack
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by 6Pack »

Have you talked to your own car insurance company? Many times they will cover a vehicle under your policy as long as it is a temporary (30 days or less) use. However, they only cover it under the terms of your policy, so if you don’t have comprehensive coverage you might not get very far. Still worth a try though.
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Shackleton
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by Shackleton »

Did they assign you 10% of responsibility? Sounds like they might consider you responsible for driving into a flooded road?
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mslaw
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by mslaw »

Please keep the issue updated. Paying for the AMEX premium coverage for total protection is how the insurance is marketed.
However, rental companies appear to be notorious for always finding a work around and getting additional payments.
bberris
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by bberris »

ag1 wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:25 am My rental car got stuck in a flooded road and was totaled. I rent on American Express card and pay for amex premium coverage as primary and assumed it will all be taken care of.
After a couple of months I heard from the car rental company that amex is paying for approx 90% of the net ACV ( actual cash value) of the car and I need to pay for the remaining 10%. In my case it will be around 2000 USD. Amex says their ACV is different from car company ( which is avis)
That does not seem right to me that both come up with different values of ACV and stick me with the difference.

Do I have any options? What is the best course of action.

AG1
Have you looked up NADA and Kelly Blue book? These are the standard guides. There may be a difference between them.
Laren
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by Laren »

I'd go back to Amex and climb as high on the food chain as you can. Let Amex know that Avis is billing you, presumably after Amex has paid them. It seems to me that Amex shouldn't have paid Avis without Avis agreeing (in writing) that their payment satisfied the claim. Maybe Avis did agree to that, but is trying to bill you anyway, or maybe Amex was sloppy in making the payment without getting a release of claim. Either way, Amex should deal with this problem; that's the purpose of the premium coverage.

Please post back on how this turns out - I buy the Amex premium coverage with every rental and I'm definitely interested in how well Amex stands behind it!
H-Town
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by H-Town »

ag1 wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:25 am My rental car got stuck in a flooded road and was totaled. I rent on American Express card and pay for amex premium coverage as primary and assumed it will all be taken care of.
After a couple of months I heard from the car rental company that amex is paying for approx 90% of the net ACV ( actual cash value) of the car and I need to pay for the remaining 10%. In my case it will be around 2000 USD. Amex says their ACV is different from car company ( which is avis)
That does not seem right to me that both come up with different values of ACV and stick me with the difference.

Do I have any options? What is the best course of action.

AG1
I thought it's automatic your fault if you drive into a flooded road. I think you dodged a bullet there and having 90% paid by AMEX.
Time is the ultimate currency.
PVW
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by PVW »

bberris wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:28 am
ag1 wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:25 am My rental car got stuck in a flooded road and was totaled. I rent on American Express card and pay for amex premium coverage as primary and assumed it will all be taken care of.
After a couple of months I heard from the car rental company that amex is paying for approx 90% of the net ACV ( actual cash value) of the car and I need to pay for the remaining 10%. In my case it will be around 2000 USD. Amex says their ACV is different from car company ( which is avis)
That does not seem right to me that both come up with different values of ACV and stick me with the difference.

Do I have any options? What is the best course of action.

AG1
Have you looked up NADA and Kelly Blue book? These are the standard guides. There may be a difference between them.
I have received insurance payouts for 2 different totaled vehicles. It's been a while, so I don't remember the numbers, but I do remember my own estimates from Kelly Blue book and other research were not that close to the insurance valuations. The payouts were higher than my estimates in both cases - maybe in the ballpark of 10% higher.
student
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by student »

H-Town wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:32 pm
ag1 wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:25 am My rental car got stuck in a flooded road and was totaled. I rent on American Express card and pay for amex premium coverage as primary and assumed it will all be taken care of.
After a couple of months I heard from the car rental company that amex is paying for approx 90% of the net ACV ( actual cash value) of the car and I need to pay for the remaining 10%. In my case it will be around 2000 USD. Amex says their ACV is different from car company ( which is avis)
That does not seem right to me that both come up with different values of ACV and stick me with the difference.

Do I have any options? What is the best course of action.

AG1
I thought it's automatic your fault if you drive into a flooded road. I think you dodged a bullet there and having 90% paid by AMEX.
I think this is not 100% correct. https://www.carinsurance.com/kb/does-ca ... ood-waters
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dm200
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by dm200 »

ag1 wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:25 am My rental car got stuck in a flooded road and was totaled. I rent on American Express card and pay for amex premium coverage as primary and assumed it will all be taken care of.
After a couple of months I heard from the car rental company that amex is paying for approx 90% of the net ACV ( actual cash value) of the car and I need to pay for the remaining 10%. In my case it will be around 2000 USD. Amex says their ACV is different from car company ( which is avis)
That does not seem right to me that both come up with different values of ACV and stick me with the difference.

Do I have any options? What is the best course of action.

AG1
We have the same Amex coverage, but have never need to file a claim. We assume all would be covered. Keep us posted on this and good luck.
PVW
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by PVW »

H-Town wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:32 pm I thought it's automatic your fault if you drive into a flooded road. I think you dodged a bullet there and having 90% paid by AMEX.
Insurance often pays for things that are your fault.
Laren
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by Laren »

PVW wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:06 pm
H-Town wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:32 pm I thought it's automatic your fault if you drive into a flooded road. I think you dodged a bullet there and having 90% paid by AMEX.
Insurance often pays for things that are your fault.
Yes, I don't think "fault" is a reason they'll deny a claim. I looked at the sample description of coverage (the real wording probably varies by state), and "Excluded Actions" are things like violating the rental agreement, driving drunk, intentionally damaging the car, violating criminal law with the car, racing, etc. (The one that surprised me was "the Rental Car being left unattended and unlocked or a window not completely closed").

(The wording I found was at the bottom of this page at a link labelled "View Sample Description of Coverage"
https://feeservices.americanexpress.com ... ge/home.do
criticalmass
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by criticalmass »

ag1 wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:25 am My rental car got stuck in a flooded road and was totaled. I rent on American Express card and pay for amex premium coverage as primary and assumed it will all be taken care of.
After a couple of months I heard from the car rental company that amex is paying for approx 90% of the net ACV ( actual cash value) of the car and I need to pay for the remaining 10%. In my case it will be around 2000 USD. Amex says their ACV is different from car company ( which is avis)
That does not seem right to me that both come up with different values of ACV and stick me with the difference.

Do I have any options? What is the best course of action.

AG1
You are paying Amex as the insurance company to cover your damage loss. Simply forward the information from Avis to Amex, and inform Avis that Amex is representing you, so they should work with Amex.

"For your convenience, the point of contact at Amex is ____ and the Amex claim reference number is ____. Thank you and have a nice day."

That said, this sounds like a bs way to extract more money out of you. It may likely be more than the bona fide claim amount by balance billing to you. Contact Amex, and let Amex take care of that.
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whodidntante
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by whodidntante »

I wonder how well the insurance that I don't pay extra for works.
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ag1
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by ag1 »

I think my best bet is to keep escalating the issue with amex. I will keep the group posted on how it turns out
Thanks again for all your help
AG
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by lthenderson »

H-Town wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:32 pm
ag1 wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:25 am My rental car got stuck in a flooded road and was totaled. I rent on American Express card and pay for amex premium coverage as primary and assumed it will all be taken care of.
After a couple of months I heard from the car rental company that amex is paying for approx 90% of the net ACV ( actual cash value) of the car and I need to pay for the remaining 10%. In my case it will be around 2000 USD. Amex says their ACV is different from car company ( which is avis)
That does not seem right to me that both come up with different values of ACV and stick me with the difference.

Do I have any options? What is the best course of action.

AG1
I thought it's automatic your fault if you drive into a flooded road. I think you dodged a bullet there and having 90% paid by AMEX.
I was in an accident a couple years ago where someone else ran a red light and hit me nearly head on. (They tried to turn in front of me.) After months of going back and forth, I was assigned 10% fault because I didn't see the person running the red light and stop even though I had a green light. After loosing my appeal, I was told by my insurance company that the days of 100% at fault claims are over and due to trying to control costs, they will settle with percentages at fault. My insurance company found it cheaper to agree to a 10% fault than to pursue a claim against the other insurance company for the entire 100%. :annoyed
adamthesmythe
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by adamthesmythe »

During my dealing with AMEX...I seem to remember text saying that if the rental car company asked for excess payment for "loss of use"...to not pay and forward the letter to AMEX.

I would do the same (copy to the rental car company), and definitely not pay until AMEX explained convincingly why I should pay any more.

Be patient. Don't expect quick resolution.
michaeljc70
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by michaeljc70 »

criticalmass wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:00 pm
ag1 wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:25 am My rental car got stuck in a flooded road and was totaled. I rent on American Express card and pay for amex premium coverage as primary and assumed it will all be taken care of.
After a couple of months I heard from the car rental company that amex is paying for approx 90% of the net ACV ( actual cash value) of the car and I need to pay for the remaining 10%. In my case it will be around 2000 USD. Amex says their ACV is different from car company ( which is avis)
That does not seem right to me that both come up with different values of ACV and stick me with the difference.

Do I have any options? What is the best course of action.

AG1
You are paying Amex as the insurance company to cover your damage loss. Simply forward the information from Avis to Amex, and inform Avis that Amex is representing you, so they should work with Amex.

"For your convenience, the point of contact at Amex is ____ and the Amex claim reference number is ____. Thank you and have a nice day."

That said, this sounds like a bs way to extract more money out of you. It may likely be more than the bona fide claim amount by balance billing to you. Contact Amex, and let Amex take care of that.
That is what I would do. In the few accidents I have had, the insurance company gave me a check for their estimated damages they adjuster came up with. If the dealer/body shop wouldn't do the work for that, they called the insurance company and told them what their price was and what was off on their estimate and worked it out themselves.
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ag1
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by ag1 »

Folks
I wanted to give an update on this issue. Briefly there was a dispute between Avis and Amex premium insurance on the amount of cash value of the rental car that I had totaled. And Avis was threatening to stick me with the difference ( approx. 2000 usd).

A few days after posting this email on the forum - i got a letter from Amex that they had settled the claim with Avis. They ended up paying slightly more than before ( about 95% ) of what Avis was asking. I tried to check with Avis if they were satisfied with the payment but I could not get an answer back from the people involved. Now that it is over a month and I have not heard anything from Avis I assume they are done with the case.

It seems that their letter to me telling me that I was responsible for the difference was just a way to put pressure on Amex to offer more. I did not call Amex or do anything ( other than asking for advice on this forum) .

All in it took about 4 months from the date of the accident to the settlement and Amex paid about 95% of Avis's asking amount. It did not cost me anything out of pocket. The premium insurance worked as well as I had expected...

regards

AG
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whodidntante
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by whodidntante »

Cool, thanks for the update, and glad it worked out. My observation is that legal cases involve a lot of posturing and you have to be patient to get the best outcome.
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by pdavi21 »

This is a common story when it comes to insurance. A and B are supposed to duke it out but they both end up attacking the weakest party C when they don't get what they want. You are C.
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by harrychan »

Thanks for the update but I would pursue Avis until they send a letter to verify that they accepted Amex's settlement. I wouldn't want a surprise on your credit report a few months down having some difference go to collections.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (insurance).
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heartwood
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Re: Rental car totalled - amex insurance issue

Post by heartwood »

ag1 wrote: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:40 pm Folks
I wanted to give an update on this issue. Briefly there was a dispute between Avis and Amex premium insurance on the amount of cash value of the rental car that I had totaled. And Avis was threatening to stick me with the difference ( approx. 2000 usd).

A few days after posting this email on the forum - i got a letter from Amex that they had settled the claim with Avis. They ended up paying slightly more than before ( about 95% ) of what Avis was asking. I tried to check with Avis if they were satisfied with the payment but I could not get an answer back from the people involved. Now that it is over a month and I have not heard anything from Avis I assume they are done with the case.

It seems that their letter to me telling me that I was responsible for the difference was just a way to put pressure on Amex to offer more. I did not call Amex or do anything ( other than asking for advice on this forum) .

All in it took about 4 months from the date of the accident to the settlement and Amex paid about 95% of Avis's asking amount. It did not cost me anything out of pocket. The premium insurance worked as well as I had expected...

regards

AG
Personally I find it notable that its AVIS involved. I had an AMEX Preferred Car Insurance claim after hit and run damage to my rental car in a parking lot. AMEX handled it all. It took 6 months or so in the first go around with AVIS refusing to provide logs for LOU and other documents. AVIS finally "settled" but would not provide me with a release even after I myself asked for same. I thought all was well until 3 or so years later when I received a demand letter from a law firm for AVIS saying I still owed the LOU and other charges. I called AMEX and did not respond myself. Another year or more has gone by. Is it over? AMEX was great, its AVIS I believe is the problem.
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