Finances in NYC

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mark39
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Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:45 pm

Finances in NYC

Post by mark39 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:44 am

Good Morning Everyone,

I'm facing a big decision; I received a job offer in Manhattan, NY and am trying to see the financial side of the issue and since I believe everyone here from past experience I am hoping for other opinions regarding life in general with the decision. So, anything you think I should consider I welcome your thoughts. The basics on the financial side:

Current Employer:
$57,800k/year pretax salary
Take-home after 457 contributions is $1,450 biweekly
Medical, dental, vision coverage
Exempt position; supervisor
11 years in OPERS defined benefit plan
457 plan in VG funds
4 weeks vacation her year
Limited growth potential
Fairly low stress
Work typical 8-4 job with on-call duties (not paid to be on-call)
Columbus, OH
Rent $785/month + electric (typically $100/month
Commute is 25 minutes by car (I drive a civic so around $95/mo in gas) + insurance yearly and maintenance
Rarely eat out

Potential Employer:
$122,000/year pretax salary
Take-home estimate would be around $3,000 biweekly
NY state and income taxes are higher
Medical, dental, vision (essentially same package)
Exempt position; supervisor
Would be new to NYPERS
457 and/or 401(K) options (they have pretax or roth versions of both)- plan fees are reasonably cheap from Boglehead perspective
VG funds available
2 weeks vacation per year until 5 years of service
Would definitely be a step up career-wise
Shift work including overnights
No on-call duties unless disaster struck
Higher stress
Would not have a car
Metro card is $120/month

Rent obviously is expensive in NYC. A 500 sq ft studio apartment in Manhattan is easily $1800/mo and most do not include in unit washer/dryer, A/C, elevator, etc. Even if I found a place to live at $1800/mo that would be over 28% of take home pay. That's based on just 2 paychecks per month b/c I'd like to be conservative while making a decision so I pretend those other 2 checks don't exist during the year. I won't consider living with a roommate. Obviously everything else is more expensive with the exception of utilities which are pretty comparable from what I can see. The boroughs are cheaper and depend on various factors (proximity to subway, distance from city, etc). The savings on rent is noticeable but not that great. I really can't decide if it's worth the extra commute time/hassle. Jersey is definitely a cheaper option, but again, I'd like to stay close to work and the typical commute depending on exact location would be at least 40 minutes each way.

Career-wise it's a slam dunk to take the job. Financially, I'm not so sure. Personally/psychologically/family, I'd be fine.

I don't have the desire to live a crazy NYC lifestyle. I absolutely would go to attractions on occasion but I live well within my means and saving is a huge priority. Just not sure if that could be done with these circumstances.

Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for any advise, financially and anything else you can think of.

Nissanzx1
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by Nissanzx1 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:59 am

Exciting option on the table for you, congrats on that. You mentioned that saving is your goal. I'd submit to you that you can be rich eventually with $60K living in the Midwest or $111K in NYC with sound financial practices over the long term.

I think it boils down to lifestyle (how you want to live). I personally couldn't stand walking, taking public transportation, all the people and crowds, traffic, working over nights (sorry not for me), etc. it all about what you can tolerate.

I'd be staying in the Midwest and starting a small business or getting an additional job if savings is really your goal. 8-5 job is no longer enough to put you permanently ahead. Just something to chew on.

Good luck

awval999
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by awval999 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:00 am

If you look at Bankrates cost of living calculator you see that $58k in Columbus is equivalent to $145k in Manhattan and $111k in Brooklyn, with the difference being rent/mortgage.

From a financial perspective the new wage is comprobale to your current wage adjusted for COL in NYC.

NYCguy
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by NYCguy » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:28 am

In a New York minute. You sum it up when you say professionally it is a no brainer.

New York remains a land of opportunity, particularly for the young and skilled. I am guessing you meet that description.

Yes, New York is incredibly expensive but you can make the numbers work. I highly recommend your idea of a roommate particularly for your first year.

I highly recommend locating your apartment within 20 -30 blocks of your job. New York is a terrific walking city in addition to outstanding public transportation. I discourage you from taking on a commute in the name of saving money.

The long term value in this opportunity is future upside potential. You don’t mention skills or field but salary mobility across a variety of areas is very real in New York City.

Invest in yourself!
If your out-go is greater than your income, your upkeep will be your DOWNFALL.

mark39
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Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:45 pm

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by mark39 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:59 am

I looked at bankrate and smart asset COL calculators. Both were helpful but the difference with bank rate is I would never consider $3,900/mo rent. So that would definitely bring down the amount and make things more comparable than the $145,000/yr salary. I'm certainly not under the delusion I won't spend extra money on all NYC has to offer so I'm trying to build that in as well. I'd like to say I live very, very simply but I know the temptation of the city would be calling. Especially in the first year or so. I'd never live beyond my means but I recognize I'd want to experience things.

Thank you for the recommendation of living within 20-30 blocks of work. It's nice to be reassured I was thinking correctly that I did not want to deal with crazy commutes. Very helpful.

I guess I'm just trying to decide if wealth building is still on the table with the move without having to stress over it, which I already do anyway. I've been to the city a couple of times and obviously to the prospective work place. It is in Kips Bay in Manhattan.

z3r0c00l
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by z3r0c00l » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:03 am

122K is plenty to have an apartment in Manhattan all to yourself. Most residents of the city make do with less.

Selling the car will save you more money than you think, gas is a minor expense when it comes to owning a car, you will find that insurance and depreciation run a few hundred a month.

"A 500 sq ft studio apartment in Manhattan is easily $1800/mo and most do not include in unit washer/dryer, A/C, elevator, etc." Bringing clothes to a laundromat every two weeks and buying an A/C unit for $199 shouldn't impact this choice :D The hard part is deciding if you would rather save money or be walking distance from the job. Most NYC residents pick the former but with a good salary, and 122K is a good salary, I would gladly pay $3000 a month for a solid 1 BR near Kips Bay and walk to work. At that price point the apt probably has a washer/dryer. And as a bonus, you would be living at the center of an alpha ++ global city.

https://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/abo/ ... 05885.html
Last edited by z3r0c00l on Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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leeks
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Location: new york

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by leeks » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:26 am

Definately don't do a long commute but closer parts of brooklyn/queens can be quick commute (by bicycle even). If your job is in midtown, look at woodside/sunnyside (there are some studios for 1400-1500, very safe/friendly/livable area). If your job is downtown, look at closest parts of Brooklyn (won't really be cheaper but you might prefer the recreation/nightlife/amenities). But walking distance to work is really ideal for your first year in the city, especially if you will have some overnight shifts.

But reconsider that you will have best housing value and ability to save by far if you tolerate roommates while single. You might consider a furnished room sublet - with roommates - for the first few months while you shop neighborhoods (and confirm to yourself that you are truly opposed to a roommate long term). It is a lot of cash up front to get into your own lease (can be 4 months rent - first/last/security deposit/broker fee) so you might want to be here for a while before you commit to a neighborhood (unless your job pays broker fee as part of relocation - then you do want to start a lease using that benefit).

If you really aren't drawn to city life, and you won't consider roommate living, you do not have to do it. You can have a successful career and financial success elsewhere. Enjoying the place you live is important.

Do not expect washer/dryer/central ac/dishwasher. Uncommon. Shared laundry room in basement is not uncommon. Laundry services can pick up and return clean neatly folded items, it doesn't cost that much more than laundromat machines.
Last edited by leeks on Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

z3r0c00l
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by z3r0c00l » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:28 am

leeks wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:26 am
(can be 4 months rent - first/last/security deposit/broker fee)
If someone demanded that of me I would find another apartment. Lots of no-fee listings out there and usually the last month is the security deposit.

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leeks
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Location: new york

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by leeks » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:33 am

z3r0c00l wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:28 am
leeks wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:26 am
(can be 4 months rent - first/last/security deposit/broker fee)
If someone demanded that of me I would find another apartment. Lots of no-fee listings out there and usually the last month is the security deposit.
It is the long-term cost that matters. For desirable places, the landlords can really ask for a lot because there is no shortage of tenants.

JackoC
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:14 am

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by JackoC » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:35 am

z3r0c00l wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:03 am
122K is plenty to have an apartment in Manhattan all to yourself. Most residents of the city make do with less.

Selling the car will save you more money than you think, gas is a minor expense when it comes to owning a car, you will find that insurance and depreciation run a few hundred a month.

"A 500 sq ft studio apartment in Manhattan is easily $1800/mo and most do not include in unit washer/dryer, A/C, elevator, etc." Bringing clothes to a laundromat every two weeks and buying an A/C unit for $199 shouldn't impact this choice :D
I agree with this. If you try to reach a low % of rent to income in NY with overly conservative estimate of 'take home', it's going to look bad. But the actual income is as high as it is v OH in large part because housing is so expensive in NY. I would either scale back on the layers of conservatism that makes 122k only a 72k take home*, or else not worry as much if 28% is 'too high'. Seems to me a person of that income could pay more than $1800 in rent and still save more than they could from half that salary in a LCOL area.

And it might turn out you don't like $1,800/mo living in Manhattan. Or you might, but IMO at that salary it shouldn't hinge on having to get the absolute minimum non-roommate cost of rent. For 'commute' and living outside Manhattan depends in part where in Manhattan. It's not necessarily considered a 'commute' in NY to take the subway perhaps the same number of stops from Brooklyn or Queens as you would from elsewhere in Manhattan. People tend to think of anywhere in NJ as 'commute' but if it's Hoboken or Jersey City it could also be closer to work than someplace within the City, depending where. Although there's value to walking to work and that's not likely for a job in Manhattan living outside Manhattan (not absolutely excluded from some places in Brooklyn, walking over one of the bridges). Biking to work in NY is a risk tolerance issue, probably more than some other places.

*it was mentioned that two paychecks a year are excluded, by maybe explain how otherwise you get that big a discount?

skime
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:24 pm

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by skime » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:41 am

mark39 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:44 am
Good Morning Everyone,

I'm facing a big decision; I received a job offer in Manhattan, NY and am trying to see the financial side of the issue and since I believe everyone here from past experience I am hoping for other opinions regarding life in general with the decision. So, anything you think I should consider I welcome your thoughts. The basics on the financial side:

Current Employer:
$57,800k/year pretax salary
Take-home after 457 contributions is $1,450 biweekly
Medical, dental, vision coverage
Exempt position; supervisor
11 years in OPERS defined benefit plan
457 plan in VG funds
4 weeks vacation her year
Limited growth potential
Fairly low stress
Work typical 8-4 job with on-call duties (not paid to be on-call)
Columbus, OH
Rent $785/month + electric (typically $100/month
Commute is 25 minutes by car (I drive a civic so around $95/mo in gas) + insurance yearly and maintenance
Rarely eat out

Potential Employer:
$122,000/year pretax salary
Take-home estimate would be around $3,000 biweekly
NY state and income taxes are higher
Medical, dental, vision (essentially same package)
Exempt position; supervisor
Would be new to NYPERS
457 and/or 401(K) options (they have pretax or roth versions of both)- plan fees are reasonably cheap from Boglehead perspective
VG funds available
2 weeks vacation per year until 5 years of service
Would definitely be a step up career-wise
Shift work including overnights
No on-call duties unless disaster struck
Higher stress
Would not have a car
Metro card is $120/month

Rent obviously is expensive in NYC. A 500 sq ft studio apartment in Manhattan is easily $1800/mo and most do not include in unit washer/dryer, A/C, elevator, etc. Even if I found a place to live at $1800/mo that would be over 28% of take home pay. That's based on just 2 paychecks per month b/c I'd like to be conservative while making a decision so I pretend those other 2 checks don't exist during the year. I won't consider living with a roommate. Obviously everything else is more expensive with the exception of utilities which are pretty comparable from what I can see. The boroughs are cheaper and depend on various factors (proximity to subway, distance from city, etc). The savings on rent is noticeable but not that great. I really can't decide if it's worth the extra commute time/hassle. Jersey is definitely a cheaper option, but again, I'd like to stay close to work and the typical commute depending on exact location would be at least 40 minutes each way.

Career-wise it's a slam dunk to take the job. Financially, I'm not so sure. Personally/psychologically/family, I'd be fine.

I don't have the desire to live a crazy NYC lifestyle. I absolutely would go to attractions on occasion but I live well within my means and saving is a huge priority. Just not sure if that could be done with these circumstances.

Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for any advise, financially and anything else you can think of.
You'll be miserable living in Manhattan on 122k. It's a lot more expensive than you may think. If saving is a priority, stay out of NYC unless you run a bank or hedge fund.

carguyny
Posts: 326
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by carguyny » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:53 am

I wouldn't do it - you'll be living a very tough lifestyle. Everything is expensive, much more expensive than you think. Eating out/bars/groceries are going to seem stupidly expensive.

We pay fresh graduates about $185k/year and they all share apartments due to the cost of living.

bling
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by bling » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:11 am

just curious, why is living with a roommate a non-starter? NYC is unlike other cities in that the density of people allows for many options that are simply not feasible elsewhere. why is having a in-unit washer/dryer important when you can literally have someone come pick up your clothes, and come back the next day with them washed and folded? why bother grocery shopping when you can have anything imaginable delivered to your door in 30 minutes? if you do the math, you barely pay more for these things than if you were to do them yourself, yet the convenience factor goes way up. the money you're saving by having a roommate allows you to "live in the city", so to speak, instead of living at home.

also, living in boroughs doesn't automatically mean your commute time goes up. if you lived in upper-west or upper-east, but commuted to wall st for work, that's easily 45 minutes right there.

WS1
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by WS1 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:18 am

What do you want to get out of living in the area?
How old are you?
Can you make friends easily?
Could this just be a year or two?
Could you find roommates?
You probably won’t need 4 months rent in cash. I’ve never experienced it.
Where will you work? The ability to bike/walk is damn near magical
I have lots of opinions and can ask lots of questions. Came here as late 20s, single, not huge amount of disposible income. Now have kids and even less disposable income :happy

There’s about 7 millions NYC residents outside Manhattan. Only a tiny fraction of people are living an “epic lifestyle” and spending serious $ in bars, restaurants, theater, etc. I have a love hate relationship with this place, but the things I love don’t exist in most places. I mean simple stuff like walking places with my kids, the variety of parks and public places that are alive with people..hell we’re technically a beach town.

bltn
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by bltn » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:36 am

No personal experience with NYC other than visits. But having a daughter and son in law in NYC for the past 5 years with new job opportunities, and having some personal perspective from living in downtown Chicago in the past, I might mention a couple of things.

As others have mentioned, your biggest concern in COL increase is your rent. My daughter is living in an 800 sf apartment one block from her work on the upper east side of Manhatten, which rents for 6000.00 a month! Her employer, which requires extremely long hours, subsidizes the rent by paying 50%. Still. Having the apartment within walking distance of her work makes a huge difference in her life.

My son in law, following my daughter s career , got a job in NYC that almost doubled his salary in D.C. Last year he changed jobs and doubled his salary again. So the above posts that suggest great opportunity for career growth in NYC have been true for my family.

Before I made a move to NYC, I would line up my living space. With overnight work and long hours, closer is worth a lot of money.

I moved to Chicago years ago from a MCOL area to advance my career. That was a big lifestyle change. I sold my car. I walked to work where I spent up to 100 hours a week. I was happy with the city and thought I would live in Chicago the rest of my life. Then I found , on a visit to my family during the holidays one year, a much better opportunity for career advancement in my hometown area. I moved back and realized how much I liked having a car again, having a yard with grass, and generally appreciated the middle class suburban lifestyle. I had taken for granted all of the good parts of my earlier life before.

Best of luck with your career.

blueman457
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by blueman457 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:08 am

Financially, it's side-ways. Things cost more, but you get paid more. As others have mentioned, it's a great opportunity to move up in the career totem pole. If you're not tied down by family/kids/other obligations: go for it - living in NYC is fun, and you get to experience things (for better or worse) that you don't seen in smaller cities.

Blue Man

nimo956
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by nimo956 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:20 am

I just made the exact same decision. Was making $90k in Boston and moved to NYC for $143k. I ran different scenarios, as it's certainly more expensive to live directly in Manhattan. I decided to live in Hoboken, NJ. I save nearly $10k in taxes, my apartment is cheaper and has things like in-unit laundry and central AC. The rent is $3k, but I'm sharing with a roommate. My commute is about 40min to midtown door to door. So far, I'm really happy with my decision and enjoy my new job a lot.

Honestly, this is a no-brainer for you. You need to anchor your salary at the higher level. All of your future jobs/promotions will be based on this amount.

Also, I don't know where you're finding $1800 apartments in Manhattan. When I looked in Midtown it was at least $3k if not $3.5k for a 1 bed. I couldn't even find $1800 in Hoboken; cheapest there was $2.3k.
50% VTI / 50% VXUS

dan23
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by dan23 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:52 am

It is definitely possible to find a (very) small studio in a non-doorman building in that price range (e.g., portions of UES). If you are not already aware of it, streeteasy is a good site for apartment hunting. Your big expense in NYC is housing. Outside of that, other things can be relatively cheap if you know how to look. What people who live here tend to spend a lot of money on is eating and drink out, but that is a choice. Also, my view is there is high value on living somewhere where there is a subway line (which seemingly you intend to do).

Sam1
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by Sam1 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:15 pm

I don’t see your age listed. You’d be an idiot not to accept this job. Simply for the upward mobility and listing it on your resume. You can ALWAYS move to a LCOL area like Columbus but you can’t always move to NYC for a corporate job with a big name firm. Suck up living in a smaller place, sending the laundry out, limiting travel, etc. I did the same (moved to NY under similar circumstances) and it was the best move I ever made. I set myself up career wise for decades to come and it later launched me into a higher paying but great work/life balance job. GO FOR IT

mark39
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by mark39 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:23 pm

I'm 41, never married and no kids. Making friends would not be an issue. Certainly not looking to "live it up" in NYC. I would generally be working 40-45 hours a week unless disasters strike which is not unheard of. Some of the things I mentioned like laundry and other stuff in apartments was just general stuff to consider. Those things certainly aren't going to make or break my decision. The $1800/mo apartment was just an example. In all likelihood I would pay more but I almost certainly wouldn't go above $3k.

The main thing is the cost of living and salary. I seem to go back and forth between thinking I could be comfortable vs struggling. By comfortable I mean not living like a hermit, having a short commute, and able to reasonably enjoy the city (go get pizza sometimes, see the museums occasionally, a few sports events a years, etc), and be able to save money. I don't have expensive tastes mainly because I've always been frugal.

If I had to guess, I don't think I will stay there forever. I don't see it as an absolute dream but it is very exciting. I can't say how I'll feel in 2-5 years. Maybe I'll love it, maybe I'll hate it.

It's just hard to wrap my head around NYC finances with a midwest salary/COL anchor.
Last edited by mark39 on Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rob5TCP
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by Rob5TCP » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:23 pm

Prices do vary considerably by neighborhood. Long Island City was once quite reasonable and close to Manhattan. The last ten years there has been a huge amount of construction of hi rises and pries rose considerable (though were falling the last year or so). Of course, this will change if Amazon does pick LIC as one of it's next HQ's.

Google is also expanding their workforce dramatically over the next few years.

So you now have two competing forces. Rents have started to come down substantially (from lofty levels); because of all the units being built. But, now with more tech expansion that may absorb a lot of the new units coming online. Every few blocks is a new major large residential building. I've never seen as much building as I do now.

People live on a LOT less than 122k in the city (including Manhattan). For a short time, having a roommate might be an answer until you decide exactly where you would like to live.

I went with a friend to see a 600 Sq ft Kips Bay apt for $557,000. It was small, but certainly livable (my first co-op was 192 sq feet and I loved it - across from the U.N.)

If city life is NOT for you; then this is an intangible that only you can answer. After living here for decades, there are only a few other cities around the US I would even consider.

If career advancement is a prime concern, your opportunities here would probably greatly exceed Columbus.

blevine
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Location: New York

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by blevine » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:27 pm

I would look at longer term career impact.
I moved back to NYC after working in a place that was half the rent early in my career.
I felt the higher income/higher expenses would benefit me in the long run, as long as income continued to rise.
I had modest appetite for my home (could have gotten a bigger place as income rose, but didn't).
Besides taxes/housing, many items are same.
Car and other commodity purchase prices, saving for college (maybe cheaper in NY as we have good/cheap public colleges).

Moving back to NYC has worked for me, but things seem to always be changing, and your particular career path would be unique.
Many employers are leaving NYC, others are coming here, depends on the industry you work in and your skills.

JackoC
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by JackoC » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:54 pm

nimo956 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:20 am

Also, I don't know where you're finding $1800 apartments in Manhattan. When I looked in Midtown it was at least $3k if not $3.5k for a 1 bed. I couldn't even find $1800 in Hoboken; cheapest there was $2.3k.
NY and very close areas of NJ are bigger in population than some notable countries, so hard to generalize about prices. There are, as you well know living in the area, parts of Manhattan distinctly downscale from Hoboken; but then people are making assumptions like Upper East Side.

I'm a landlord in Hoboken and Brooklyn, and you have a point under certain assumptions, but the picture would be clarified knowing exactly where the work location is (I gather OP is a public employee, govt agency offices are all over) and what neighborhoods targeted to live. Also saying $2.3k is 1 bdr min in Hoboken would seem to be assume pretty nice and/or new building. There are plenty of sub $1.8k 1 bdr apts in older buildings in less convenient parts of Hoboken, often basement which is less popular since the 2012 flood, ~$1.5k is the bottom of the barrel for market rent (Hoboken has rent control, which some newcomers don't even know because many landlords ignore it, but it resets completely to market when a person moves out, unlike City rent stabilization). Another data point, we recently rented out a pretty big newly renovated 2 bdr in 1931 6-family in Bushwick (eastern Brooklyn) for $2.3k. That's less than we could legally charge under RS given the money we put in after (legally) paying the previous tenant (~$750/mo) to move out, so that's market though the unit is still technically RS. But Bushwick isn't Hoboken. It's a predominantly working class immigrant (mainly from Latin America) neighborhood with a growing contingent of young mainly white 'hipsters' not in a position to pay top Brooklyn dollar. Hoboken has become almost an extension of the Upper West Side in recent years, whereas earlier waves of 'gentrification' had it more like an extension of Greenwich Village, with the sub-stratem of small town old Hoboken still underneath, gradually fading away.

It's a book length topic potentially, where to live in NY (and adjacent areas)? But from my perhaps biased POV definitely something to try in life, even if it's not a 'career slam dunk'. If it is, just do it.

rgs92
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by rgs92 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:08 pm

If you move to Queens and take the subway in you'll be fine. Queens is a nice, pleasant place to live and a lot cheaper than Manhattan.
Here's a nice 1 bedroom in a very good neighborhood (I recommend this area highly; it's Forest Hills, about a 40 minute ride on the subway to Manhattan):
https://streeteasy.com/building/68_64-y ... _hills/aa3

Here's another:
https://streeteasy.com/building/111_14- ... ?similar=1

MathWizard
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by MathWizard » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:32 pm

I didn't see anything about a spouse, so I'll assume single.

I don't know what you are doing is tax deferred so I am assume 0. A quick look at taxes brackets for single under current fed tax rates shows you are about 6 to 7 K into the 22% bracket, while a 122 salry would mean you fill up the 22% plus go about 20K into the 24% bracket.

Your state taxes also go up in dollars, but I do not know percentage wise.

One way to minimize the bracket creep is to increase whatever you are putting into a 401K.

I looked at a job in Manhattan 3 yrs ago, and to have a comparable salary it would have put me in the top bracket
and the cheapest apt that my wife would consider was 4500/more. I would have walked to work, but my current commute is only 15 min door to door.

I could not see the move as financially viable for me.

bklyn96
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by bklyn96 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:34 pm

mark39 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:44 am
….anything else you can think of.
As you consider different neighborhoods be sure to get an estimate of your commute using the MTA's custom trip planner.

You can check out the time and complexity of getting between your work address and different neighborhood locations around the city.

MTA trip planner: http://www.tripplanner.mta.info/mytrip/ ... anner.aspx

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Rob5TCP
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Location: New York, NY

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by Rob5TCP » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:45 pm

All the trip planners can not account for two big events

1. The closing of the L train
2. If Amazon starts moving to LIC, the affect on the 7 train service
(and possibly others).

The first is unknowable until L train apocalypse begins in 5 months.

rjbraun
Posts: 1239
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:22 pm

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by rjbraun » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:45 pm

I have lived in NYC (Manhattan) for decades. Affordable (or, at least not outrageously expensive) housing is the main challenge I think exists in making NYC an affordable (enough) place to live. Taxes are also higher than elsewhere (presumably, I have not looked in detail myself but figure the stuff I read is accurate enough). But, if one doesn't make a huge salary (not referring to OP's specific situation) taxes can only account for so much. So, I would say housing is the key challenge.

Once one can find acceptable housing at a reasonable (to them) price, I think living in NYC can be manageable, financially speaking, assuming that the city offers things one likes. If you want to hike in the wilderness every weekend, that's not so easy. But, if you want to take in a concert, theater, dance, museums, art galleries, and so on, NYC has it in spades. And, it doesn't have to be expensive at all. Yes, if you must see the Berlin Philharmonic at Carnegie Hall in the orchestra section or a top Broadway show, you will pay up. But there are tons of events every single day that are reasonably in price and at times even free. I'm going to see a performance by Juilliard Drama this weekend, $20 ticket. Not an easy ticket to get, as Juilliard productions sell out and the theater is small, but I got the ticket without special connections, etc. There are musical concerts by quality performers every Monday at a church on the upper west side -- first-come, first-serve (one of a many, many similar events going on regularly here). Of course, if you have a demanding job that pays a lot you probably won't be able to get to the concert in time for a seat. Or, you will be too tired to appreciate it.

I have work colleagues who can't stand commuting (from Long Island) into Manhattan and never go to a show, concert, museum. NYC isn't for them, I guess. For someone who would love to go to the Met Museum for its huge and amazing art collection, I think an individual membership is about $100 for unlimited visits in one year. Hard to see how that can be viewed as pricey.

As for food and going out to eat, dining out is expensive everywhere. In NYC you can spend ridiculous amounts (just spent $600 for two at Le Bernardin, but that was for a very special occasion, and it was tough to get a reservation!), but you can also get all kinds of different foods for not a lot (if you're careful and judicious). Maybe not so different from elsewhere. But as another poster noted, this is discretionary. You can decide if and when you want to splurge. If you're going to, there are lots of options to choose from.

One final note. You can literally traverse the entire five boroughs that make up NYC for $121 with a monthly unlimited Metrocard. Not sure there's better value than that elsewhere.

Good luck with your decision.

mark39
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by mark39 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:05 pm

When I was at the potential employer for a half day I tried to treat it as much like living there as I could. I stayed in Sunnyside, Queens and really liked the neighborhood. Tree-lined streets, felt safe, walkable, etc. I had to be at the office at 7:45am so I left excessively early. Good thing because there was a broken rail on the 7 and had to take an alternate to Grand Central and then hop on another train.

Anyway, the biggest decision I have to make is paying a lot extra and be able to walk to basically everything I need. For example, I would be in an area where I could walk to work, any doctor/dental appointments, food, church, and most of my entertainment. Or, do I save extra money with a sightly longer commute.

rjbraun
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by rjbraun » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:17 pm

mark39 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:05 pm
When I was at the potential employer for a half day I tried to treat it as much like living there as I could. I stayed in Sunnyside, Queens and really liked the neighborhood. Tree-lined streets, felt safe, walkable, etc. I had to be at the office at 7:45am so I left excessively early. Good thing because there was a broken rail on the 7 and had to take an alternate to Grand Central and then hop on another train.

Anyway, the biggest decision I have to make is paying a lot extra and be able to walk to basically everything I need. For example, I would be in an area where I could walk to work, any doctor/dental appointments, food, church, and most of my entertainment. Or, do I save extra money with a sightly longer commute.
I would say you want to live in an area you like and feel comfortable in. I don't think you must be within an x radius of your office location. After all, what happens if your office relocates? Ditto for your medical providers, including if one or more of them go out of network, you decide they're not right for you, etc.

Ideally, you want the location to be near major subway lines (ideally, a "hub" station) that are known to be relatively reliable lines.

It's understandable that it may be a bit stressful and uncomfortable to make the decision without knowing your housing situation. At the same time it's kind of hard to decide in a vacuum when you really don't have specifics regarding the potential housing.

Will the employer offer any assistance with finding a place? I agree with others that you may want to consider a share situation at least initially as that will give you the ability to check out different neighborhoods, etc. Where do your potential future colleagues live? How do they deal with the tight housing market?

Sam1
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by Sam1 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:23 pm

I’d go and here’s why. The 122k is a major bump in salary. Let’s say you hate it...you can return to Ohio in 3 years and get a job paying MUCH more than your current base. Closer to 90-100k. It will take years for you to climb to that salary in Columbus. If you love NY then you can stay and eventually pursue a much higher paying job. There are plenty in NY if you’re motivated and bright.

I also recommend a studio on the UES. I’d definitely consider moving since you’re single. I can’t imagine it’s fun to be older and single in Columbus. There isn’t as much judgment about not being married in NY.

mark39
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by mark39 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:14 pm

The only thing possibly holding me back is the rent. But there are cheaper options than Manhattan, obviously. I guess there isn't much difference between a 35 minute walk and 35 minutes of walking/subway with the difference of having to build some extra time for delays that you don't encounter with walking (I'm essentially terrified of ever being late :happy ).

I see some places that are almost the same size I have now that are under $2500/mo that would be less than 30 mins door to door under normal conditions. Grand Central is the first stop, actually. Some of the places actually have views of the East River and Manhattan which would just be a nice perk.I seem to be more comfortable now with the rent aspect and realize the salary bump does make up for all the other expenses except for rent, possibly.

The other positive is my title would sound very impressive for future job prospects. That's not lost on me. I naturally worry about my career and finances so I'm definitely not totally confident I could find a job should this not work out for any reason, but having this on my resume would absolutely help. Not even my pessimism could deny that little bit.

rgs92
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by rgs92 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:30 pm

I usually advise people not to change jobs if they are comfortable in the job they have.
But this is different.
You are single (without even pets it seems). You are a free agent with no ties holding you back.
Living in New York would be a real adventure, quite a trip! And it is a lot more money (and raises may add to this).

So since you may not get a chance like this again, especially as you get older and less desirable to employers, this may be a once in a lifetime chance.
So I would say just do it and stop trying to analyze it dollar for dollar. That salary would be just fine for great (OK, very good) lifestyle.

Prices for food and utilities and mass transportation and even property taxes are fairly low in New York.
You could even afford to easily buy a place after a short while if the job seems secure.
Now is the time to do it I'd say.
(I'm envious, actually.)

bling
Posts: 294
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by bling » Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:38 pm

food for thought. the median household income in manhattan is only 66k, half of what your new salary is. you will do just fine.

yes, cost of living will be higher. your salary will double, your rent will double, but everything else will not. food doesn't double. electronics doesn't double. utilities doesn't double. you get the point... it's much much easier to save money making a high salary in a HCOL area if you don't partake in all the expensive stuff (of which there is a lot).

mark39
Posts: 37
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Re: Finances in NYC

Post by mark39 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:13 pm

Thanks everyone. I've asked a ton of people what they think but most don't have the boglehead mindset when it comes to finances. So, I really appreciate it!

One last question regarding PERS, if you don't mind. There isn't a state to state transfer from OPERS to NYCERS. I have 11 years in OPERS and it's around $100k now and it is a defined benefit plan. I can keep it with OPERS and the interest is 1.5% which is fine if I think I may someday return to an OPERS job in the future.

The other option is to take a refund. I have to wait 45 days and would receive 100% of my contributions and 67% of my employer contribution. No healthcare benefits, obviously.

What are some considerations here?

This is from the OPERS website:

Benefits of leaving your account on deposit with OPERS

You may be eligible to receive a benefit.
If you have at least 60 contributing months of service credit in the plan, you have earned a reduced retirement benefit for each retirement group.

If you are in Group A and B, you may apply to receive a reduced retirement benefit at age 60.

If you are in Group C, you may apply to receive a reduced retirement benefit at age 62.

You may qualify for additional benefits.
If you have 18 months of contributing service credit in the Traditional Pension Plan (and three months of that occurred in the last 30 months) you have earned survivor benefits for your survivors.

With at least 60 contributing months in the plan, if you become permanently disabled within two years of termination of plan participation, you can still file for disability benefits.

You can accrue interest on your account.
You will continue to earn interest on your employee contributions and any amounts paid to purchase service credit. The interest granted each year is the interest rate in effect at that time. The rate is set annually by the OPERS Board of Trustees.

Returning after taking a refund

If you decide to return to public employment after a refund, you will be treated as a new member and may be eligible to pick a new plan. You don't have to choose a new plan – you can stay in the same plan.

OPERS members who receive a refund from the Traditional Pension Plan may redeposit the amount withdrawn to the same plan from which the member refunded after returning to OPERS-covered employment and contributing to the Traditional Pension Plan for at least 18 months. The redeposit automatically restores the service credit that was lost as a result of the refund. The cost to redeposit funds will include the amount refunded, plus interest.

To learn more about the cost of redepositing funds, refer to the Service Credit and Contributing Months leaflet.

Returning after leaving your account on deposit

If you don't take a refund you can pick up right where you left off when you return to OPERS-covered service.

SoAnyway
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:49 pm

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by SoAnyway » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:32 pm

mark39 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:44 am
Good Morning Everyone,
I'm facing a big decision; I received a job offer in Manhattan, NY and am trying to see the financial side of the issue and since I believe everyone here from past experience I am hoping for other opinions regarding life in general with the decision. So, anything you think I should consider I welcome your thoughts.
Congrats on getting the offer, OP! I'm a born-and-raised Buckeye with a number of relatives in OPERS/OP&F/SERS/STRS that I'm very close to and return to see several times a year. Due to education/career considerations, I was (sadly) part of the "brain drain" from my Rust Belt upbringing, and have spent most of my education/career time on the East coast. I'm well familiar with NYC living. But I've never forgotten the midwestern values - which as I'm sure you've observed, dovetail nicely with BH values. BTW, my dream is to return to "God's country" when I retire, but I digress. SoAnyway....

You are correct - This is a big decision. I agree with others that it's mostly a lifestyle decision, since it appears that career-wise it's a "slam dunk" to use your words (as it was for me, way back when). If you were 25, I'd say just do it. What have you got to lose? I confess that I only skimmed the thread but I think you said you're 41. If you said you were married with kids, mortgage, etc. etc., I'd be hesitant. If memory serves (sorry - I'm older and tired), that's not the case. So based on what little I know of you and your situation, you asked for BH thoughts so here are mine:

#1) Are you excited to live in NYC and "join in" to the chaos? Or do you dread the commute/litter/pace/hassle/what-most-Ohioans-would-call "rude New Yorker behavior" (I have a different and more charitable view, but that's a different thread), and other changes from the Buckeye state's "no-hassle living" that you're currently enjoying? To put it another way, what's your "adaptability level", i.e how set are you in your ways? Infants and toddlers can adapt to anything (when we were there, we did - we had no choice); the older we get (self included! not judging!), it gets a bit tougher.

#2) If I'm remembering right that you'd be a free agent, and your answer to #1 is "very excited/no dread", are you ok with roommate living? If yes, then given the COL, it's NOT AT ALL unusual for single professionals age 40+ to share a nice apartment in the City, and there are plenty of online resources for you to connect with one another. Bottom line: Find a place close to work with roommates. You'll be fine.

jks1985
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by jks1985 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:43 pm

Do it.

The best time of my life was in my 20s when I lived in Manhattan for 6 years.

Now, at 33 with a wife and kid, I fantasize everyday about moving back. Being self-employed and subject to the unincorporated business tax on top of the high NYC/NYS income taxes, however, it will probably never work out.

My advice is to live in Manhattan within a 30 minute walk to your job. Walking around the city is a blast.

Dottie57
Posts: 4649
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:43 pm

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by Dottie57 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:25 am

mark39 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:23 pm
I'm 41, never married and no kids. Making friends would not be an issue. Certainly not looking to "live it up" in NYC. I would generally be working 40-45 hours a week unless disasters strike which is not unheard of. Some of the things I mentioned like laundry and other stuff in apartments was just general stuff to consider. Those things certainly aren't going to make or break my decision. The $1800/mo apartment was just an example. In all likelihood I would pay more but I almost certainly wouldn't go above $3k.

The main thing is the cost of living and salary. I seem to go back and forth between thinking I could be comfortable vs struggling. By comfortable I mean not living like a hermit, having a short commute, and able to reasonably enjoy the city (go get pizza sometimes, see the museums occasionally, a few sports events a years, etc), and be able to save money. I don't have expensive tastes mainly because I've always been frugal.

If I had to guess, I don't think I will stay there forever. I don't see it as an absolute dream but it is very exciting. I can't say how I'll feel in 2-5 years. Maybe I'll love it, maybe I'll hate it.

It's just hard to wrap my head around NYC finances with a midwest salary/COL anchor.
If I were you I would go. You can always mve back. I don’t think I could live there permanently, but for a couple of years -yes!

Try to take advantage of all of the cultural activities while you live there.

nyclon
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:30 pm

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by nyclon » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:58 am

mark39 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:44 am
Good Morning Everyone,

I'm facing a big decision; I received a job offer in Manhattan, NY and am trying to see the financial side of the issue and since I believe everyone here from past experience I am hoping for other opinions regarding life in general with the decision. So, anything you think I should consider I welcome your thoughts. The basics on the financial side:

Current Employer:
$57,800k/year pretax salary
Take-home after 457 contributions is $1,450 biweekly
Medical, dental, vision coverage
Exempt position; supervisor
11 years in OPERS defined benefit plan
457 plan in VG funds
4 weeks vacation her year
Limited growth potential
Fairly low stress
Work typical 8-4 job with on-call duties (not paid to be on-call)
Columbus, OH
Rent $785/month + electric (typically $100/month
Commute is 25 minutes by car (I drive a civic so around $95/mo in gas) + insurance yearly and maintenance
Rarely eat out

Potential Employer:
$122,000/year pretax salary
Take-home estimate would be around $3,000 biweekly
NY state and income taxes are higher
Medical, dental, vision (essentially same package)
Exempt position; supervisor
Would be new to NYPERS
457 and/or 401(K) options (they have pretax or roth versions of both)- plan fees are reasonably cheap from Boglehead perspective
VG funds available
2 weeks vacation per year until 5 years of service
Would definitely be a step up career-wise
Shift work including overnights
No on-call duties unless disaster struck
Higher stress
Would not have a car
Metro card is $120/month

Rent obviously is expensive in NYC. A 500 sq ft studio apartment in Manhattan is easily $1800/mo and most do not include in unit washer/dryer, A/C, elevator, etc. Even if I found a place to live at $1800/mo that would be over 28% of take home pay. That's based on just 2 paychecks per month b/c I'd like to be conservative while making a decision so I pretend those other 2 checks don't exist during the year. I won't consider living with a roommate. Obviously everything else is more expensive with the exception of utilities which are pretty comparable from what I can see. The boroughs are cheaper and depend on various factors (proximity to subway, distance from city, etc). The savings on rent is noticeable but not that great. I really can't decide if it's worth the extra commute time/hassle. Jersey is definitely a cheaper option, but again, I'd like to stay close to work and the typical commute depending on exact location would be at least 40 minutes each way.

Career-wise it's a slam dunk to take the job. Financially, I'm not so sure. Personally/psychologically/family, I'd be fine.

I don't have the desire to live a crazy NYC lifestyle. I absolutely would go to attractions on occasion but I live well within my means and saving is a huge priority. Just not sure if that could be done with these circumstances.

Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for any advise, financially and anything else you can think of.
I've lived in midtown Manhattan on $55k/yr in the past. I saved money each month and rented a studio on the east 60s. It's doable.

You said the financial aspect is your only reservation - I'd say you are more than fine given you are doubling your take home pay. I think you need to think about whether or not you want to work the graveyard shift, have a lot less vacation and have much more stress in general based on what you're written.

Regarding rent, you can find very reasonable prices if you're willing to live in the outer boroughs, for example, there are several nice one bedrooms along the F and E lines you can find for around $1,300-1,600/mo.

It sounds like you take home $2900/mo today and spend about $1300 of that, so you pocket $1600/mo.

In NYC you'd take home $6k/mo and spend about $2400 (let's assume your rent increases by $1k and groceries are 30% more expensive - other stuff you can buy online). Youll pocket $3600/mo.

The question is, are you willing to trade a low stress lifestyle for a high stress lifestyle with less time off in exchange for double the take home?

Valuethinker
Posts: 36342
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by Valuethinker » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:30 am

mark39 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:14 pm
The only thing possibly holding me back is the rent. But there are cheaper options than Manhattan, obviously. I guess there isn't much difference between a 35 minute walk and 35 minutes of walking/subway with the difference of having to build some extra time for delays that you don't encounter with walking (I'm essentially terrified of ever being late :happy ).

I see some places that are almost the same size I have now that are under $2500/mo that would be less than 30 mins door to door under normal conditions. Grand Central is the first stop, actually. Some of the places actually have views of the East River and Manhattan which would just be a nice perk.I seem to be more comfortable now with the rent aspect and realize the salary bump does make up for all the other expenses except for rent, possibly.

The other positive is my title would sound very impressive for future job prospects. That's not lost on me. I naturally worry about my career and finances so I'm definitely not totally confident I could find a job should this not work out for any reason, but having this on my resume would absolutely help. Not even my pessimism could deny that little bit.
If the only thing holding you back is rent then the decision is made for you.

You will find a rental that works for you.

Just beware that L Train shut down. It will cause chaos. Hell is not too fine a word for it.

Try Queens or New Jersey. Brooklyn is too expensive I think and the not nice bits are truly sketchy.

Do it for 3 years then revisit whether you wish to stay in NYC long term.

allones
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:27 am

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by allones » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:37 am

My partner and I moved to NYC from Seattle last year at 40 with just my ~100k salary. It hasn't been a struggle at all and is totally doable without extreme lifestyle changes. I didn't change my savings rate, just adjusted my budget. The unpleasant change for me was now having a state income tax.

I spent a couple months before moving getting to know the rental market via StreetEasy.com. We got an apartment in Clinton Hill in Brooklyn - a 1000sqft loft with 30' of windows, a decent view, elevator, W/D in unit, doorman, private courtyard, gym, pet friendly for $2600/month and a 5 minute walk from the G train. It was certainly the nice exception to other smaller places we looked but with some searching I think places that check all your requirements are out there. It's a ~25 minute train ride to the Financial District, probably ~45 to Kips Bay.

Like another comment said, stay away from anything dependent on the L train.

I like living outside of Manhattan and actually am much more of a homebody than I thought I'd be in New York. I read the advice before I moved here that, since your life in the city is surrounded by so many people all the time, having the biggest apartment you can get will help with your sanity. I think it's true.

Even if you train commute, you're going to spend probably at least 15 minutes walking outdoors. In the dead of winter, being able to get into a train station is nice.

There's the opportunity to totally blow your spending money at restaurants, but there's amazing cheap food too. Groceries are expensive and going to the grocery store on a weekend is like going to a busy IKEA. It's the worst. For me, it's worth the delivery fee to have groceries brought to my apartment sometimes. We buy a lot more regular household stuff off of Amazon, too, because going to Target or the like can be overwhelming and a pain to schlep stuff on the trains. BUT, the arts, culture, food, and *opportunities* here are off the charts. I would encourage you to make the move.

rjbraun
Posts: 1239
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:22 pm

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by rjbraun » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:16 am

mark39 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:13 pm
Thanks everyone. I've asked a ton of people what they think but most don't have the boglehead mindset when it comes to finances. So, I really appreciate it!

One last question regarding PERS, if you don't mind. There isn't a state to state transfer from OPERS to NYCERS. I have 11 years in OPERS and it's around $100k now and it is a defined benefit plan. I can keep it with OPERS and the interest is 1.5% which is fine if I think I may someday return to an OPERS job in the future.

The other option is to take a refund. I have to wait 45 days and would receive 100% of my contributions and 67% of my employer contribution. No healthcare benefits, obviously.

What are some considerations here?

This is from the OPERS website:

Benefits of leaving your account on deposit with OPERS

You may be eligible to receive a benefit.
If you have at least 60 contributing months of service credit in the plan, you have earned a reduced retirement benefit for each retirement group.

If you are in Group A and B, you may apply to receive a reduced retirement benefit at age 60.

If you are in Group C, you may apply to receive a reduced retirement benefit at age 62.

You may qualify for additional benefits.
If you have 18 months of contributing service credit in the Traditional Pension Plan (and three months of that occurred in the last 30 months) you have earned survivor benefits for your survivors.

With at least 60 contributing months in the plan, if you become permanently disabled within two years of termination of plan participation, you can still file for disability benefits.

You can accrue interest on your account.
You will continue to earn interest on your employee contributions and any amounts paid to purchase service credit. The interest granted each year is the interest rate in effect at that time. The rate is set annually by the OPERS Board of Trustees.

Returning after taking a refund

If you decide to return to public employment after a refund, you will be treated as a new member and may be eligible to pick a new plan. You don't have to choose a new plan – you can stay in the same plan.

OPERS members who receive a refund from the Traditional Pension Plan may redeposit the amount withdrawn to the same plan from which the member refunded after returning to OPERS-covered employment and contributing to the Traditional Pension Plan for at least 18 months. The redeposit automatically restores the service credit that was lost as a result of the refund. The cost to redeposit funds will include the amount refunded, plus interest.

To learn more about the cost of redepositing funds, refer to the Service Credit and Contributing Months leaflet.

Returning after leaving your account on deposit

If you don't take a refund you can pick up right where you left off when you return to OPERS-covered service.
This doesn't really answer your question, but you should be aware that NYCERS is underfunded, I believe to the tune of about 70% or so. I couldn't readily find a link that explicitly states this but if you google, you should be able to find info along these lines.

I don't know OPERS funding level, but I assume it's a state plan while NYCERS is at the city level. Again, a distinction that perhaps could be significant or at least worthy of consideration. Something you may want to consider.

Also, I assume that you are already vested in OPERS. NYCERS would require I believe 10-year vesting, assuming you will be Tier 6.

Not saying these should influence your decision about a possible move, but in case you weren't aware of these things I figure it's worth pointing out beforehand.

JackoC
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:14 am

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by JackoC » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:07 pm

bling wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:38 pm
1. food for thought. the median household income in manhattan is only 66k, half of what your new salary is. you will do just fine.

2. yes, cost of living will be higher. your salary will double, your rent will double, but everything else will not. food doesn't double. electronics doesn't double. utilities doesn't double. you get the point... it's much much easier to save money making a high salary in a HCOL area if you don't partake in all the expensive stuff (of which there is a lot).
1. Clearly you can live in NY on a lot less than $122k even moving from elsewhere. But keep in mind the overall stats include a few million people in rent stabilized and public housing units (1mil+ and a few 100k units respectively with an average > one person each). Someone moving to the City for a new job is pretty unlikely to score either of those (the income limit for RS is $200k, $122k wouldn't actually disqualify you, you just aren't going to find one).

2. That I agree with. One shouldn't be too worried about a relatively high % of income to rent when the income is being doubled mainly because of rent (other stuff to some extent, but there's not needing a car OTOH, the big thing is rent). The likelihood is being able to save more absolute $'s if you can settle for small and not super nice apt/area.

Back on areas, a couple of posts have said go to Queens not Brooklyn. This is not IMO useful advice. No statement of that kind is meaningful on higher than a neighborhood level. Brooklyn and Queens are each large entities which would be major US cities in their own right (Brooklyn used to be). There's wide variation within both. There are relatively few areas in either that are actually dangerous anymore, but there are pretty big differences in 'feel' among neighborhoods. You just experiment with that for yourself I think. I'm from Queens originally and my family from Brooklyn, wouldn't be the same for me necessarily. Also convenience of subways varies depending where in Manhattan you're going from a particular neighborhood in Q or B. Hoboken or perhaps Jersey City might be considered also, essentially comparable to NY neighborhoods with their own convenience to particular places in Manhattan that's greater than many parts of the City itself, and no City income tax.

staythecourse
Posts: 6126
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:40 am

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by staythecourse » Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:34 pm

I understand this is a financially motivated post, but would be easier to answer even that if you tell us about your personal situation? Married or not? If so, does she/ he want to move to NYC? Do you have kids? If you do how old? If you do have you thought about those costs (daycare, nanny, private school, etc...)? If you don't will you in the future?

The other issues (maybe you mentioned an I missed it by glancing too quick) is what are your LONG term goals? Do you want to stay in NYC? Do you want the experience and then want to move on to something else and somewhere else?

If I was young, single, and wanted to advance my career I would definitely think about moving to NYC. If I was married, kids, or thought of doing either sometime soon I would NEVER think about it.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

boglesyourmind
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by boglesyourmind » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:25 pm

Here is the lazy mans version of Manhattan from someone that lives in it. Hope it helps.

Starting with your suggested $6000 a month...

Here is the monthly cost structure for the lazy, quite conservative assumptions:

Rent:
I would live in a studio (assuming you are single) here is an actual data point ($2400). (building includes heat)

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/139- ... lpage=true

Electricity:
$100

Laundry:
$300 (I send everything out. I have to dry clean stuff for work. I am that lazy and the monthly bill is less than this but just as a placeholder)

Daily food:
Breakfast = $2 (I hardboil eggs, the only unlazy part of this whole post)
Lunch = $15 (my daily salad is $11, but to give you a buffer)
Dinner = $20
($1110 a month)

Cleaner:
Bi weekly cleaner. $220

Gym:
$35. (I go to Blink but you can upgrade to equinox for $200 if you want)

Subway card:
$120. (I walk to work... but to each his own.)

So this still leaves you with after tax $1715. (which you can blow on $100 dinners and michelin star restaurants...)
Your decision isn't about money its about how you want to live your life and the type of career you want. Good luck.

R2D2
Posts: 266
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by R2D2 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:20 pm

NYCguy wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:28 am
In a New York minute. You sum it up when you say professionally it is a no brainer.

New York remains a land of opportunity, particularly for the young and skilled. I am guessing you meet that description.
Bingo.

My only advice would be do everything possible to *not* pay an apartment broker.

mark39
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:45 pm

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by mark39 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:16 pm

I had no idea there were so many people here from NYC! The most important thing was to learn if my assumptions based on google were realistic and hearing it from people here is reassuring.

Being able to save more money in absolute terms is a big deal to me. Prior to looking into this I figured making a lot more in a HCOLA would just cancel itself out. Now it appears if I choose to continue living below my means it could really pay off if I move to a lower COLA in the future.
boglesyourmind wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:25 pm
Here is the lazy mans version of Manhattan from someone that lives in it. Hope it helps.

Laundry:
$300 (I send everything out. I have to dry clean stuff for work. I am that lazy and the monthly bill is less than this but just as a placeholder)

Daily food:
Breakfast = $2 (I hardboil eggs, the only unlazy part of this whole post)
Lunch = $15 (my daily salad is $11, but to give you a buffer)
Dinner = $20
($1110 a month)

Cleaner:
Bi weekly cleaner. $220

Gym:
$35. (I go to Blink but you can upgrade to equinox for $200 if you want)
Is the cleaner for your apartment or something else? Also, is dinner and lunch eating out? Just curious. The lazy mans version is much appreciated. I'm similar

NYCguy
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by NYCguy » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:53 pm

R2D2 wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:20 pm
NYCguy wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:28 am
In a New York minute. You sum it up when you say professionally it is a no brainer.

New York remains a land of opportunity, particularly for the young and skilled. I am guessing you meet that description.
Bingo.

My only advice would be do everything possible to *not* pay an apartment broker.
+1. I moved four times in New York City before buying and never paid a broker. It totally can be done. I encourage OP to follow his original post and consider a shared apartment.

The frugal can totally enjoy New York. There is great inexpensive food, excellent inexpensive services and much free and inexpensive entertainment. The trick to New York is to manage a big expenses like rent and cars (don’t have one).

NYC is the kind of place you can find whatever kind of social life you want.

I have saved 35% to 70% of my take-home pay every year for the past 25 years. I started out and for several years made a salary comparable in today’s dollars to your opportunity. For the past decade plus I’ve made silly money. That kind of opportunity does not exist in many places in this world.

GO FOR IT!
If your out-go is greater than your income, your upkeep will be your DOWNFALL.

boglesyourmind
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by boglesyourmind » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:01 pm

mark39 wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:16 pm
I had no idea there were so many people here from NYC! The most important thing was to learn if my assumptions based on google were realistic and hearing it from people here is reassuring.

Being able to save more money in absolute terms is a big deal to me. Prior to looking into this I figured making a lot more in a HCOLA would just cancel itself out. Now it appears if I choose to continue living below my means it could really pay off if I move to a lower COLA in the future.
boglesyourmind wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:25 pm
Here is the lazy mans version of Manhattan from someone that lives in it. Hope it helps.

Laundry:
$300 (I send everything out. I have to dry clean stuff for work. I am that lazy and the monthly bill is less than this but just as a placeholder)

Daily food:
Breakfast = $2 (I hardboil eggs, the only unlazy part of this whole post)
Lunch = $15 (my daily salad is $11, but to give you a buffer)
Dinner = $20
($1110 a month)

Cleaner:
Bi weekly cleaner. $220

Gym:
$35. (I go to Blink but you can upgrade to equinox for $200 if you want)
Is the cleaner for your apartment or something else? Also, is dinner and lunch eating out? Just curious. The lazy mans version is much appreciated. I'm similar
Cleaner comes every two weeks and is for the apartment. You can probably find someone cheaper given I live in a one bedroom (800sqft) and you might choose to have roommates or live in a studio apartment.

I rarely cook at home and the prices above are for take out type situations. You can technically get the same salad for dinner and not spend $20...

A couple other things I thought about. I just got a haircut and the price was $31(mens haircut)+tip. You can get a cheaper one for $20 also.

All these costs are obviously dependent on what you want. There are affordable options for everything under the amount you will be making.

aristotelian
Posts: 4780
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:05 pm

Re: Finances in NYC

Post by aristotelian » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:46 pm

awval999 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:00 am
If you look at Bankrates cost of living calculator you see that $58k in Columbus is equivalent to $145k in Manhattan and $111k in Brooklyn, with the difference being rent/mortgage.

From a financial perspective the new wage is comprobale to your current wage adjusted for COL in NYC.
OP, I would encourage you not to rule out the Brooklyn option. For NYC commutes, the relevant metric is not the distance, it's the number of stops. You can live across the river in Williamsburg and be downtown in 3 stops, much quicker than some neighborhoods in Manhattan. There are probably neighborhoods in Queens that would work well, too.

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