When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

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visualguy
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by visualguy »

JoMoney wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:44 pm It is true that "the rich" have been getting richer, but it's not necessarily the same rich people.
It's still the case in America that individuals are not tied to a class of being "rich" or "poor". There is still tremendous mobility and the list of Forbes richest people sees new additions all the time, and people in poverty frequently do raise themselves out of it.
You really need to read the research on this... It's not what you think. The situation with upward mobility is actually quite bleak in the US:

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-m ... ould-know/
Wakefield1
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by Wakefield1 »

lostdog wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:14 pm Do some of you realize that most Americans live paycheck to paycheck and barely have $1000 in savings? Only 50% invest at all.

Reaching millionaire status is a huge milestone for most people. Not sure what planet you're on?
I believe achieving the Million$ in personal balance or even household wealth is still an achievement and milestone,although it is more like finishing the marathon today while in,say,1950 it was like winning the 100 mile cross country run. (Although I shouldn't really say that because the 100 Mile Cross Country Run (in Virginia) didn't really start for people until 1979 (although it was for horse and rider before that)
It means a certain measure of affluence or partial security but does not represent being "rich". It does not ensure a luxury lifestyle if one spends a lot.
Maybe "Millionaire Status" will be average in another 15 years. By then if lucky and frugal today's millionaire if still around might have quite a bit more than one $million.
If that little "Voyager" on the top of your Vanguard login has changed to "Flagship" Uncle Sam might still have his hand in your pocket (cap gains potential tax if you sell and tax to be levied on your Roth Conversions and/or RMDs from your tax deferred balance.
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JoMoney
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by JoMoney »

High-net-worth individual
...Typically, these individuals are defined as holding financial assets (excluding their primary residence) with a value greater than US$1 million.

However, there are distinct classifications of HNWI and the exact dividing lines depend on how a bank wishes to segment its market. For example, an investor with less than US$1 million but more than US$100,000 is considered to be "affluent", or perhaps even "Sub-HNWI". "Very-HNWI" (VHNWI) can refer to someone with a net worth of at least US$5 million.
Ultra high-net-worth individual
...Ultra high-net-worth individuals (UHNWI) are defined as having a net worth of at least US$30 million in constant 2018 dollars. It is the wealth segment above very-high-net-worth individuals (>5 million) and high-net-worth-individuals (>1 million).
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
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JoMoney
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by JoMoney »

visualguy wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:00 pm
JoMoney wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:44 pm It is true that "the rich" have been getting richer, but it's not necessarily the same rich people.
It's still the case in America that individuals are not tied to a class of being "rich" or "poor". There is still tremendous mobility and the list of Forbes richest people sees new additions all the time, and people in poverty frequently do raise themselves out of it.
You really need to read the research on this... It's not what you think. The situation with upward mobility is actually quite bleak in the US:

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-m ... ould-know/
There are different perspectives.
https://www.pewtrusts.org/~/media/legac ... eampdf.pdf
The vast majority of Americans have higher family incomes than their parents did.
■ Eighty-four percent of Americans have higher family incomes than their parents had at the same age, and across all levels of the income distribution, this generation is doing better than the one that came before it.
■ Ninety-three percent of Americans whose parents were in the bottom fifth of the income ladder and 88 percent of those whose parents were in the middle quintile exceed their parents’ family income as adults.
...
■ Fifty percent of Americans have greater wealth than their parents did at the same age.
■ Seventy-two percent of Americans whose parents were in the bottom fifth of the wealth ladder and 55 percent of those whose parents were in the middle quintile exceed their parents’ family wealth as adults.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
MathWizard
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by MathWizard »

visualguy wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:00 pm
JoMoney wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:44 pm It is true that "the rich" have been getting richer, but it's not necessarily the same rich people.
It's still the case in America that individuals are not tied to a class of being "rich" or "poor". There is still tremendous mobility and the list of Forbes richest people sees new additions all the time, and people in poverty frequently do raise themselves out of it.
You really need to read the research on this... It's not what you think. The situation with upward mobility is actually quite bleak in the US:

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-m ... ould-know/
Wow. Thanks a lot for this. It is even bleaker than I thought.

I made a lot more than my parents at the same age.

My kids currently make a little more than I did at the same age, but they are barely out of college, and I was in grad school,
so this may invert. Over time though, at least my oldest will probably outpace me in accumulated income because of the
years of income that I lost in grad school.
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dm200
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by dm200 »

I was looking at the current tuition from the private university I graduated from in 1967.

My starting salary upon graduation was a little over 4 times the average one year tuition and 3.7 times my senior year tuition.

Tuition only today at the same university is over $50,000 per year. :oops:
Nthomas
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by Nthomas »

I'm looking forward to 1M primarily because at that point I should start seeing some significant compounding return on my stash. Not so much of an end point as a starting point for phase 2 of accumulation.
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Abel
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by Abel »

I've worked with several life long programmers that worked until 5 on they day they died. I hope they got their code checked in and through the test gate that day.
LOLOL!
It'd be my ticket to heaven.
lostdog
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by lostdog »

Nthomas wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:39 pm I'm looking forward to 1M primarily because at that point I should start seeing some significant compounding return on my stash. Not so much of an end point as a starting point for phase 2 of accumulation.
Agree. Even at 500k you see the massive compounding.
Nthomas
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by Nthomas »

lostdog wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:01 pm
Nthomas wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:39 pm I'm looking forward to 1M primarily because at that point I should start seeing some significant compounding return on my stash. Not so much of an end point as a starting point for phase 2 of accumulation.
Agree. Even at 500k you see the massive compounding.
I’m not quite there yet but that’s good to hear. I’m looking forward to it!
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Cycle
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by Cycle »

1 million earning 4% can fund daycare for two kids, almost
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way
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Gort
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by Gort »

staythecourse wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:49 pm Hard to believe we are so elitist as a forum many feel millionaire is no big deal. It is a VERY big deal. The % of folks who are millionaires in the U.S. make the odds still low so one should feel proud of making it if that is their goal in the first place.

Good luck.
^^^This^^^
Nissanzx1
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by Nissanzx1 »

It will be the benchmark for my lifetime (I'm 40). I'm not there but should be eventually...
michaeljc70
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by michaeljc70 »

From the last stats I saw, I believe if you are a millionaire that puts you in the top 10% of households. Using the 4% SWR, you can withdraw $40k (assuming you are ~60-65), so hardly rich if that is your only source of income. If you add on SS and you are a couple that both get close to the max, then you would have a 6 figure income (which I believe still only puts you around the top 20% based on income).

Of course, people always focus on big round numbers. Dow 25k. $1,000,000 NW. $100k income. That is how people tend to set goals. No one says my goal is to have $952,000 at age 40 so being a millionaire will be part of some people's "benchmarks" for quite a while. I think when people hit $100k NW it is meaningful to many.

Also, you probably shouldn't ignore age in all this as a 30 year old millionaire and 60 year old millionaire are different things. And location. A millionaire in Silicon Valley or Manhattan is not the same as a millionaire in middle America.
Last edited by michaeljc70 on Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Momus
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by Momus »

I think it's already obsolete. $3M is the new $1M due to inflation.
LiterallyIronic
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by LiterallyIronic »

barnaclebob wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:06 pm
lostdog wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:52 pm
barnaclebob wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:48 pm A 30 year old would have to have a fairly austere life in a LCOL area to live on 1 million dollars for life.
40k a year in a LCOL area, not really.
Yeah they'd have that dream life of Mr Money Mustache (without all the blog income), budgeting for a used civic every 10 years, worrying about having two major unexpected expenses in a single year, and being able to eat out once a month.
Here I am. I'm 34, and if someone handed me $1 million, I'd retire right now. $143,000 of that would pay off my mortgage, leaving me with $857,000. Even at 3% SWR, that would leave me with $25,710 per year and I'm not sure what I'd do with all that money. Over $2,000/month with no mortgage to pay? I'd be swimming in cash. Eat out once a month? That's considered low? We eat out once a year, on my wife's' birthday, but we didn't do it this year. Maybe we'll do it on mine to make up for it.
barnaclebob
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by barnaclebob »

LiterallyIronic wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:31 pm Here I am. I'm 34, and if someone handed me $1 million, I'd retire right now. $143,000 of that would pay off my mortgage, leaving me with $857,000. Even at 3% SWR, that would leave me with $25,710 per year and I'm not sure what I'd do with all that money. Over $2,000/month with no mortgage to pay? I'd be swimming in cash. Eat out once a month? That's considered low? We eat out once a year, on my wife's' birthday, but we didn't do it this year. Maybe we'll do it on mine to make up for it.
I'd like to see what your budget would look like on 26k a year. I'll even assume that's tax free.
bradshaw1965
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by bradshaw1965 »

bloom2708 wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:35 pm
bmelikia wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:31 pm
lostdog wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:14 pm Do some of you realize that most Americans live paycheck to paycheck and barely have $1000 in savings? Only 50% invest at all.

Reaching millionaire status is a huge milestone for most people. Not sure what planet you're on?
+1

I know I'll be celebrating the day I cross the threshold!
You will celebrate, but may realize it is just another step. You do all the right things, save, wait 15-20 years. You hit $1 million. You celebrate. Then you realize it it just another step. You still have many (hopefully) years ahead. A wife, kids, mortgage, college ahead. What do you do next? Trudge on toward $2 million. The market also giveth and taketh away. You may cross the milestone multiple times on the journey.
Not disputing the method but still sounds pretty joyless.
michaeljc70
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by michaeljc70 »

barnaclebob wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:33 pm
LiterallyIronic wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:31 pm Here I am. I'm 34, and if someone handed me $1 million, I'd retire right now. $143,000 of that would pay off my mortgage, leaving me with $857,000. Even at 3% SWR, that would leave me with $25,710 per year and I'm not sure what I'd do with all that money. Over $2,000/month with no mortgage to pay? I'd be swimming in cash. Eat out once a month? That's considered low? We eat out once a year, on my wife's' birthday, but we didn't do it this year. Maybe we'll do it on mine to make up for it.
I'd like to see what your budget would look like on 26k a year. I'll even assume that's tax free.
There are people that make that in a year.......before taxes. Almost 1/5 of the households in the US.
bradshaw1965
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by bradshaw1965 »

barnaclebob wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:33 pm
LiterallyIronic wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:31 pm Here I am. I'm 34, and if someone handed me $1 million, I'd retire right now. $143,000 of that would pay off my mortgage, leaving me with $857,000. Even at 3% SWR, that would leave me with $25,710 per year and I'm not sure what I'd do with all that money. Over $2,000/month with no mortgage to pay? I'd be swimming in cash. Eat out once a month? That's considered low? We eat out once a year, on my wife's' birthday, but we didn't do it this year. Maybe we'll do it on mine to make up for it.
I'd like to see what your budget would look like on 26k a year. I'll even assume that's tax free.
There are many, many threads doing this exercise. Some folks think it's unfeasible others do it in practice. Follow-up with various humblebrags on needing $5 million to hit your 2% withdrawal, rinse and repeat.
barnaclebob
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by barnaclebob »

michaeljc70 wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:36 pm
barnaclebob wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:33 pm
LiterallyIronic wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:31 pm Here I am. I'm 34, and if someone handed me $1 million, I'd retire right now. $143,000 of that would pay off my mortgage, leaving me with $857,000. Even at 3% SWR, that would leave me with $25,710 per year and I'm not sure what I'd do with all that money. Over $2,000/month with no mortgage to pay? I'd be swimming in cash. Eat out once a month? That's considered low? We eat out once a year, on my wife's' birthday, but we didn't do it this year. Maybe we'll do it on mine to make up for it.
I'd like to see what your budget would look like on 26k a year. I'll even assume that's tax free.
There are people that make that in a year.......before taxes. Almost 1/5 of the households in the US.
Yes, and they are living near the poverty line...that's the whole point of the thread. 1MM isn't "rich". I'm not saying its impossible by any means, its just not a life most people desire. Sure you could go to Thailand or some other country live great on the backs of those in extreme poverty but thats also not feasible for most people.
Last edited by barnaclebob on Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
michaeljc70
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by michaeljc70 »

barnaclebob wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:38 pm
michaeljc70 wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:36 pm
barnaclebob wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:33 pm
LiterallyIronic wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:31 pm Here I am. I'm 34, and if someone handed me $1 million, I'd retire right now. $143,000 of that would pay off my mortgage, leaving me with $857,000. Even at 3% SWR, that would leave me with $25,710 per year and I'm not sure what I'd do with all that money. Over $2,000/month with no mortgage to pay? I'd be swimming in cash. Eat out once a month? That's considered low? We eat out once a year, on my wife's' birthday, but we didn't do it this year. Maybe we'll do it on mine to make up for it.
I'd like to see what your budget would look like on 26k a year. I'll even assume that's tax free.
There are people that make that in a year.......before taxes. Almost 1/5 of the households in the US.
Yes, and they are living just above the poverty line...that's the whole point of the thread. 1MM isn't "rich". I'm not saying its impossible by any means, its just not a life most people desire.
The poverty line for a single person is $12k, so more than double that. I don't think it is about "desire". If you are used to spending around that, then you'd be fine retiring with that amount. I wouldn't want to live on that though.
Last edited by michaeljc70 on Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bradshaw1965
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by bradshaw1965 »

barnaclebob wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:38 pm
michaeljc70 wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:36 pm
barnaclebob wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:33 pm
LiterallyIronic wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:31 pm Here I am. I'm 34, and if someone handed me $1 million, I'd retire right now. $143,000 of that would pay off my mortgage, leaving me with $857,000. Even at 3% SWR, that would leave me with $25,710 per year and I'm not sure what I'd do with all that money. Over $2,000/month with no mortgage to pay? I'd be swimming in cash. Eat out once a month? That's considered low? We eat out once a year, on my wife's' birthday, but we didn't do it this year. Maybe we'll do it on mine to make up for it.
I'd like to see what your budget would look like on 26k a year. I'll even assume that's tax free.
There are people that make that in a year.......before taxes. Almost 1/5 of the households in the US.
Yes, and they are living just above the poverty line...that's the whole point of the thread. 1MM isn't "rich".
Some people would consider it financially independent. Wealth and by proxy "rich" is paying for a lifestyle using passive assets. Just because that lifestyle doesn't suit you doesn't make it so. FWIW, I agree hitting that milestone didn't make me stop working and doesn't even make me feel financially independent but to each his/her own.
barnaclebob
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by barnaclebob »

michaeljc70 wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:42 pm
barnaclebob wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:38 pm
michaeljc70 wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:36 pm
barnaclebob wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:33 pm
LiterallyIronic wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:31 pm Here I am. I'm 34, and if someone handed me $1 million, I'd retire right now. $143,000 of that would pay off my mortgage, leaving me with $857,000. Even at 3% SWR, that would leave me with $25,710 per year and I'm not sure what I'd do with all that money. Over $2,000/month with no mortgage to pay? I'd be swimming in cash. Eat out once a month? That's considered low? We eat out once a year, on my wife's' birthday, but we didn't do it this year. Maybe we'll do it on mine to make up for it.
I'd like to see what your budget would look like on 26k a year. I'll even assume that's tax free.
There are people that make that in a year.......before taxes. Almost 1/5 of the households in the US.
Yes, and they are living just above the poverty line...that's the whole point of the thread. 1MM isn't "rich". I'm not saying its impossible by any means, its just not a life most people desire.
The poverty line for a single person is $12k, so more than double that. I don't think it is about "desire". If you are used to spending around that, then you'd be fine retiring with that amount. I wouldn't want to live on that though.
Ah, so you can live a rich lonely life then...swoon. The post at the center of this also mentions a wife so I assume shed be retiring with him.
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by michaeljc70 »

barnaclebob wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:43 pm
michaeljc70 wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:42 pm
barnaclebob wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:38 pm
michaeljc70 wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:36 pm
barnaclebob wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:33 pm

I'd like to see what your budget would look like on 26k a year. I'll even assume that's tax free.
There are people that make that in a year.......before taxes. Almost 1/5 of the households in the US.
Yes, and they are living just above the poverty line...that's the whole point of the thread. 1MM isn't "rich". I'm not saying its impossible by any means, its just not a life most people desire.
The poverty line for a single person is $12k, so more than double that. I don't think it is about "desire". If you are used to spending around that, then you'd be fine retiring with that amount. I wouldn't want to live on that though.
Ah, so you can live a rich lonely life then...swoon. The post at the center of this also mentions a wife so I assume shed be retiring with him.
The poverty level is around $16k for 2 people.
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JoMoney
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by JoMoney »

barnaclebob wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:33 pm
LiterallyIronic wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:31 pm Here I am. I'm 34, and if someone handed me $1 million, I'd retire right now. $143,000 of that would pay off my mortgage, leaving me with $857,000. Even at 3% SWR, that would leave me with $25,710 per year and I'm not sure what I'd do with all that money. Over $2,000/month with no mortgage to pay? I'd be swimming in cash. Eat out once a month? That's considered low? We eat out once a year, on my wife's' birthday, but we didn't do it this year. Maybe we'll do it on mine to make up for it.
I'd like to see what your budget would look like on 26k a year. I'll even assume that's tax free.
This site is kind of fun to play with. It's meant for exploring globally, but you can filter it to certain locations like the United States , and then click on the "Budget" tab to see various theoretical breakdowns
https://www.theearthawaits.com/
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by MnD »

KJVanguard wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:54 pm I'm a multi-millionaire and I sure don't feel rich. Being a millionaire makes you middle class in 2018.
According to the latest Federal Reserve survey of consumer finances (SCF), the median value of household financial assets is $23,500.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/ ... Charts.pdf
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Re: When Will Attaining Millionaire Status Be Obsolete?

Post by LadyGeek »

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