What do you consider 'enough'?

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mikeyzito22
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by mikeyzito22 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:53 pm

B. Wellington wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:08 am
intangiblemoney wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:32 pm
Does anyone out there in their working years have a way of figuring out what is 'enough' in terms of income to support their current lifestyle and to also save for the future?

I know it's different for everyone but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on if and how you calculate how much is 'enough' money for you.
The best way that I can answer this is to track your monthly (yearly) spending. Include everything including taxes etc. This gives you a "rough" estimate on your yearly (weekly/ monthly)cash flow.

What's leftover? How much are you saving in retirement accounts? Do you have room to save (or spend) more?

This gets tricky looking into the future with inflation rates and a conservative estimate on future investment returns. However, basing this on the 3%- 4% withdraw rates in retirement you are looking at a nest-egg total of 25X-33X of EXPENSES (not income.) Hope that helps.

FWIW... The "average" household income in the US is approximately $56,000 per year. That may work in the Midwest but maybe not so well in higher cost of living areas...YMMV
Personal Capital (not a shameless plug) has all the tools for this. Expenses, cash flow, projected retirement. It's simple and easy and works well, even if you want to manually enter data because people get scared of computers lol.

remomnyc
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by remomnyc » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:54 pm

Ah, salary during accumulation. IMO, enough is when net after tax can support 50/50 saving and spending.

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Cycle
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by Cycle » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:36 pm

I could make 100k work, but I think 20mm per year would be enough. I could save and retire after a few months.

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GerryL
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by GerryL » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:02 pm

SQRT wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:26 am
I reverse the question. Enough is how much I have. Never had a “number”. Got very lucky and ended up with a lot. This is enough. Set my lifestyle to the amount I ended up with. Not the other way around. Not representative, I know.
Yes.
Enough was my goal. Not more. Ended up with more than enough.

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Taylor Larimore
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by Taylor Larimore » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:11 pm

GerryL wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:02 pm
SQRT wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:26 am
I reverse the question. Enough is how much I have. Never had a “number”. Got very lucky and ended up with a lot. This is enough. Set my lifestyle to the amount I ended up with. Not the other way around. Not representative, I know.
Yes.
Enough was my goal. Not more. Ended up with more than enough.
GerryL:

Consider giving what you don't need to your heirs. It should make everyone happy while you are alive.

Best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

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GerryL
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by GerryL » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:27 pm

Taylor Larimore wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:11 pm
GerryL wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:02 pm
SQRT wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:26 am
I reverse the question. Enough is how much I have. Never had a “number”. Got very lucky and ended up with a lot. This is enough. Set my lifestyle to the amount I ended up with. Not the other way around. Not representative, I know.
Yes.
Enough was my goal. Not more. Ended up with more than enough.
GerryL:

Consider giving what you don't need to your heirs. It should make everyone happy while you are alive.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Actually, most will go to charity. In fact, I'm enjoying increasing my charitable giving while I am around to see it put to good use.

novemberrain
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by novemberrain » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:28 pm

5M

Although I would continue working

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Peter Foley
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by Peter Foley » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:32 pm

When your bond allocation covers your retirement needs.

The Wizard
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by The Wizard » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:45 am

Peter Foley wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:32 pm
When your bond allocation covers your retirement needs.
novemberrain wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:28 pm
5M

Although I would continue working
These are asset based "enough" criteria.
As mentioned several times, OP is looking for income based criteria.

I like the 1/3 for expenses, 1/3 for taxes, and 1/3 for long-term savings/investment rule to decide if your income is large enough.
I was something like that my latter working years.
But since I had large tax sheltered amounts, my percentages were closer to:
40% for expenses
25% for income taxes + FICA
35% for long-term savings

Younger adults often have mortgages, educational loans, and child raising expenses and won't be able to save 35% of gross income initially.
And if your income truly isn't large enough, you could be living paycheck to paycheck...
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stuffthatpig
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by stuffthatpig » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:46 am

For the nest egg it's 25-33x expenses. For salary, I'm really liking my current setup of 25% for the taxman, 25% for the lifestyle and 50% for future me. Unfortunately it's been a bit closer to 45% for future me and 30% for the lifestyle due to health insurance costs.

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randomizer
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by randomizer » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:21 am

I've been refining my estimate for about 5 years now. At first it was very "back of the napkin" and "ballpark-ish". Over time, I've gotten more detailed, tracking current expenses in a spreadsheet. Even with accurate record-keeping though, there's still guesswork. You never know what's going to happen and I could be off by as much as a factor of two (or more?). For me that just means I should save as much as I can and be ready to adjust as I go.
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madbrain
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by madbrain » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:01 am

Depends. Retiring on Mars might be expensive.

SQRT
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by SQRT » Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:05 am

Taylor Larimore wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:11 pm
GerryL wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:02 pm
SQRT wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:26 am
I reverse the question. Enough is how much I have. Never had a “number”. Got very lucky and ended up with a lot. This is enough. Set my lifestyle to the amount I ended up with. Not the other way around. Not representative, I know.
Yes.
Enough was my goal. Not more. Ended up with more than enough.
GerryL:

Consider giving what you don't need to your heirs. It should make everyone happy while you are alive.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Agree. And working on this. I think the older one gets, the easier this might be as uncertainties decrease while spending probably decreases as well.

deikel
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by deikel » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:59 am

intangiblemoney wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:32 pm
Does anyone out there in their working years have a way of figuring out what is 'enough' in terms of income to support their current lifestyle and to also save for the future?

I know it's different for everyone but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on if and how you calculate how much is 'enough' money for you.
There is no such thing as to 'calculate' what is enough...calculation suggests there is some secret math or accuracy in the term 'enough', when in reality that term is entirely born in your imagination

It is never 'enough' - there are endless ways of inflating your lifestyle. Its very much a moving goalpost....
Everything you read in this post is my personal opinion. If you disagree with this disclaimer, please un-read the text immediately and destroy any copy or remembrance of it.

shell921
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by shell921 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:21 am

SQRT wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:05 am
Taylor Larimore wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:11 pm
GerryL wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:02 pm
SQRT wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:26 am
I reverse the question. Enough is how much I have. Never had a “number”. Got very lucky and ended up with a lot. This is enough. Set my lifestyle to the amount I ended up with. Not the other way around. Not representative, I know.
Yes.
Enough was my goal. Not more. Ended up with more than enough.
GerryL:

Consider giving what you don't need to your heirs. It should make everyone happy while you are alive.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Agree. And working on this. I think the older one gets, the easier this might be as uncertainties decrease while spending probably decreases as well.
As we get older uncertainties DECREASE? Not for me they haven't!

skime
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by skime » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:04 pm

50x annual expenses (including health insurance, emergencies, roof, cars, appliances, and any other hard goods) liquid. In addition, make sure you include some expenses for optionality, otherwise you are stuck living the current lifestyle with no room to change it if you would like.

SQRT
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by SQRT » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:16 am

shell921 wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:21 am
SQRT wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:05 am
Taylor Larimore wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:11 pm


Consider giving what you don't need to your heirs. It should make everyone happy while you are alive.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Agree. And working on this. I think the older one gets, the easier this might be as uncertainties decrease while spending probably decreases as well.
As we get older uncertainties DECREASE? Not for me they haven't!
I think for me they will. I’ll have a better idea of how much my portfolio is likely to be and probably a better idea how much extra there might be in the portfolio. I didn’t consider health care costs (I’m Canadian) but I can see this may be an issue for many Americans. For many people as they age, I think they just reach the conclusion that they have more money than what thy need. Obviously, this wouldnt be true for everyone but for those with “enough” it would be more common,I think.

MikeG62
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by MikeG62 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:13 am

intangiblemoney wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:32 pm
Does anyone out there in their working years have a way of figuring out what is 'enough' in terms of income to support their current lifestyle and to also save for the future?

I know it's different for everyone but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on if and how you calculate how much is 'enough' money for you.
I would calculate enough the following way.

Assemble a bottoms up budget. Be conservative in your estimates. Include a very healthy slug for T&E (and make sure you feel you have health care covered too). I would then divide that number by 3%. If I felt I was at or well on track to hit that number by the time I was planning to retire I would say I am on track for having enough. If retirement is far off in the future, build inflation into your cost estimates.

I would use 3% if I were planning to retire no earlier than 50. If looking at some unusual very early retirement age (30's or early 40's), I'd probably drop the denominator to 2.5% (or maybe even 2.0% if I was planning to retire at the very early end of that range).
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Hyperborea
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by Hyperborea » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:08 am

intangiblemoney wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:32 pm
Does anyone out there in their working years have a way of figuring out what is 'enough' in terms of income to support their current lifestyle and to also save for the future?
Depending on your job/career you need to think of more than your income. It's pretty hard to come to a set income level and stop growing. I think of it like the Woody Allen quote about relationships being like sharks - they have to keep moving forward or they die. Careers are like that too. You need to be careful of getting to "enough" (however you define it) and then coasting from there. You will become the "doing just enough"/retired on the job guy and put yourself at risk. Work at you career but balance it with you life outside of work.
"Plans are worthless, but planning is everything." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

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VictoriaF
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by VictoriaF » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:28 am

madbrain wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:01 am
Depends. Retiring on Mars might be expensive.
They may accept Moon Rocks.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

Texanbybirth
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by Texanbybirth » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:45 am

I make enough now, but I'm only 33 and have lots of working years (read: uncertainty) left. I'd be perfectly content making (inflationally-adjusted) what I make now for the rest of my working years. We are no where near rich (not just BH Rich, but even rich compared to our suburban TX neighborhood), whether by income or assets, but we have plenty to give, save, and spend.

(I do not think "inflationally" is a word.)

The Wizard
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by The Wizard » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:58 am

Hyperborea wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:08 am
intangiblemoney wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:32 pm
Does anyone out there in their working years have a way of figuring out what is 'enough' in terms of income to support their current lifestyle and to also save for the future?
Depending on your job/career you need to think of more than your income. It's pretty hard to come to a set income level and stop growing. I think of it like the Woody Allen quote about relationships being like sharks - they have to keep moving forward or they die. Careers are like that too. You need to be careful of getting to "enough" (however you define it) and then coasting from there. You will become the "doing just enough"/retired on the job guy and put yourself at risk. Work at you career but balance it with you life outside of work.
This is why we have been trying to balance lifestyle spending with saving.
Spend $50,000 per year and also save $50,000 per year and you're in good shape. Your income is "enough"...
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TN_Boy
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by TN_Boy » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:19 pm

skime wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:04 pm
50x annual expenses (including health insurance, emergencies, roof, cars, appliances, and any other hard goods) liquid. In addition, make sure you include some expenses for optionality, otherwise you are stuck living the current lifestyle with no room to change it if you would like.
If I waited until I had 50x annual expenses, my retirement age would probably be 70+. Not a plan I would recommend to anyone.

TravelforFun
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by TravelforFun » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:23 pm

HereToLearn wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:30 pm
TravelforFun wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:30 pm
Enough income: income that is high enough to support your lifestyle, save at least 15% for retirment, save sufficiently for your kids' education, and retire your debts agressively.

Enough asset: Asset that is equal to 33 times your gross annual expenses.

TravelforFun
Am not debating your 33X gross expenses figure, but wondering if that figure applies at any age or only at traditional retirement age?
33X is good for any age. If you only had to withdraw 3% a year from your assett to live on, your asset should last forever.

TravelforFun

flyingaway
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by flyingaway » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:38 pm

TravelforFun wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:23 pm
HereToLearn wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:30 pm
TravelforFun wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:30 pm
Enough income: income that is high enough to support your lifestyle, save at least 15% for retirment, save sufficiently for your kids' education, and retire your debts agressively.

Enough asset: Asset that is equal to 33 times your gross annual expenses.

TravelforFun
Am not debating your 33X gross expenses figure, but wondering if that figure applies at any age or only at traditional retirement age?
33X is good for any age. If you only had to withdraw 3% a year from your assett to live on, your asset should last forever.

TravelforFun
That is, of course, in theory.

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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by flyingaway » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:49 pm

deikel wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:59 am
There is no such thing as to 'calculate' what is enough...calculation suggests there is some secret math or accuracy in the term 'enough', when in reality that term is entirely born in your imagination

It is never 'enough' - there are endless ways of inflating your lifestyle. Its very much a moving goalpost....
After hitting my initial number, I began to believe this statement.

skime
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by skime » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:53 pm

TN_Boy wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:19 pm
skime wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:04 pm
50x annual expenses (including health insurance, emergencies, roof, cars, appliances, and any other hard goods) liquid. In addition, make sure you include some expenses for optionality, otherwise you are stuck living the current lifestyle with no room to change it if you would like.
If I waited until I had 50x annual expenses, my retirement age would probably be 70+. Not a plan I would recommend to anyone.
Just curious - what did you retire with and at what age?

TN_Boy
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by TN_Boy » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:02 pm

skime wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:53 pm
TN_Boy wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:19 pm
skime wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:04 pm
50x annual expenses (including health insurance, emergencies, roof, cars, appliances, and any other hard goods) liquid. In addition, make sure you include some expenses for optionality, otherwise you are stuck living the current lifestyle with no room to change it if you would like.
If I waited until I had 50x annual expenses, my retirement age would probably be 70+. Not a plan I would recommend to anyone.
Just curious - what did you retire with and at what age?
Hmm, I don't like being too specific. I will say:

- Retirement before 60 (for the older of the couple)
- No where near 50x expenses at time of retirement (more like 25x), but when SS kicks in, it will cover a decent chunk of expenses
- Lots of work analyzing expenses across a number of years to be sure we understood them.
- Lifestyle upper middle-class ish (albeit not especially pricey cars and house).
- Obviously we could cut back some if needed.

For early retirement, I might not have been fully comfortable with an initial 4%ish withdrawal rate without knowing SS would kick in later. If we didn't have SS coming in later, then I would have been comfortable with something like 33x expenses, rather than 25x, for an early retirement.

70 is probably an overstatement. With SS maybe retire at 66, depending on market returns, at 50x. We were not interested in waiting that long. But our situation is common for people retiring early. The portfolio has to support more spending early, then SS comes in and helps out. We have the "defer SS" mindset.

But we should probably point the OP to any of the several long threads on withdrawal rates if they are interested in 25x versus 50x. Obviously I view 50x as far too conservative, even for someone retiring pretty early. And I think the most (not all) of the bogleheads view 2% withdrawal/50x expenses as too conservative. You simply have to work a lot longer to get that reserve. We wanted to retire while we had the energy and ability to do a lot of things.

mariezzz
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by mariezzz » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:49 am

This is the most critical of Bogle's quotes from Enough.
"I grew up with the priceless advantage of having to work for what I got."

Parents underestimate the damage they do to kids if they deny them this gift: You deny kids confidence (financial and otherwise); satisfaction in one's accomplishments; budgeting and problem-solving skills; profound understanding of the difference between 'needs' and 'wants'. My parents didn't have much extra after meeting our basic needs for shelter, food, and clothing, but I never resented them not being able to provide many extras. I think the majority of kids today might experience my upbringing as 'deprived', but I did not. We didn't go without; clothing wasn't always new or the most fashionable, but it was adequate.

I earned what I could to get anything extra - and that taught me there wasn't all that much satisfaction in 'things'. I would save, and finally be able to buy - and realized more than once the anticipation was usually better than acquiring. I learned my lesson fairly quickly, and was more careful over time with how I spent. That's served me extremely well throughout life. Time is the most valuable thing to me.

mariezzz
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by mariezzz » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:52 am

madbrain wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:01 am
Depends. Retiring on Mars might be expensive.
Also, might not be the most well-thought-out retirement plan.

madbrain
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by madbrain » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:56 am

VictoriaF wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:28 am
madbrain wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:01 am
Depends. Retiring on Mars might be expensive.
They may accept Moon Rocks.
I thought that's what Bitcoins were for.

madbrain
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by madbrain » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:59 am

mariezzz wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:52 am
madbrain wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:01 am
Depends. Retiring on Mars might be expensive.
Also, might not be the most well-thought-out retirement plan.
Nonsense. All the trendy billionnaires are trying to get there. Cheaper than saving this planet, apparently.

basspond
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by basspond » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:13 am

Based on spending percentages:

If you have a mortgage:
10%-Giving
20%-Retirement savings
10%-Emergency fund and big ticket item savings
15%-Mortgage
30%-Taxes (including SALT)
15%-Living expenses

Non-mortgage:
10%-Giving
20%-Retirement savings
10%-Emergency fund and big ticket item savings
35%-Taxes (including SALT)
25%-Living expenses

SQRT
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by SQRT » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:02 am

So here is a follow on question. Let’s assume that for whatever reason you end up with more than enough. Do you: 1) increase your lifestyle and if so how much, 2) simply watch the portfolio increase over time and probably end up with a larger legacy or end of life health care expenses, 3) give more away to charity, friends, relatives while alive, 4) a combination ?

For those in this situation what are you doing?

TravelforFun
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by TravelforFun » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:05 am

SQRT wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:02 am
So here is a follow on question. Let’s assume that for whatever reason you end up with more than enough. Do you: 1) increase your lifestyle and if so how much, 2) simply watch the portfolio increase over time and probably end up with a larger legacy or end of life health care expenses, 3) give more away to charity, friends, relatives while alive, 4) a combination ?

For those in this situation what are you doing?
#4, all of the above.

TravelforFun

The Wizard
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by The Wizard » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:28 am

TravelforFun wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:05 am
SQRT wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:02 am
So here is a follow on question. Let’s assume that for whatever reason you end up with more than enough. Do you: 1) increase your lifestyle and if so how much, 2) simply watch the portfolio increase over time and probably end up with a larger legacy or end of life health care expenses, 3) give more away to charity, friends, relatives while alive, 4) a combination ?

For those in this situation what are you doing?
#4, all of the above.

TravelforFun
Correct.
My net income in retirement has been more than it was while working so yes, I've been upscaling to a degree...
Attempted new signature...

Chip
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by Chip » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:41 am

TravelforFun wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:05 am
#4, all of the above.
Same here. Spending has probably ramped up 10% or so, plus I'm a little less obsessive about it. But I still couldn't justify buying a couple of business class seats on the last long airplane trip. Maybe after a few more years if/when I'm less tolerant of economy-class seats. :D

bogglizer
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by bogglizer » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:16 am

This 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 rule is really cool, but I live in California and am relatively well compensated. I only pay 20% in taxes. Perhaps I need to find a way to raise my taxes in order to comfortably retire.

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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by sailaway » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:24 am

bogglizer wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:16 am
This 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 rule is really cool, but I live in California and am relatively well compensated. I only pay 20% in taxes. Perhaps I need to find a way to raise my taxes in order to comfortably retire.
We pay more in taxes than we spend, but are somewhere between thirds and 1/2, 1/4, 1/4. Anything more specific becaomes tedious.

skime
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by skime » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:28 am

TN_Boy wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:02 pm
skime wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:53 pm
TN_Boy wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:19 pm
skime wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:04 pm
50x annual expenses (including health insurance, emergencies, roof, cars, appliances, and any other hard goods) liquid. In addition, make sure you include some expenses for optionality, otherwise you are stuck living the current lifestyle with no room to change it if you would like.
If I waited until I had 50x annual expenses, my retirement age would probably be 70+. Not a plan I would recommend to anyone.
Just curious - what did you retire with and at what age?
Hmm, I don't like being too specific. I will say:

- Retirement before 60 (for the older of the couple)
- No where near 50x expenses at time of retirement (more like 25x), but when SS kicks in, it will cover a decent chunk of expenses
- Lots of work analyzing expenses across a number of years to be sure we understood them.
- Lifestyle upper middle-class ish (albeit not especially pricey cars and house).
- Obviously we could cut back some if needed.

For early retirement, I might not have been fully comfortable with an initial 4%ish withdrawal rate without knowing SS would kick in later. If we didn't have SS coming in later, then I would have been comfortable with something like 33x expenses, rather than 25x, for an early retirement.

70 is probably an overstatement. With SS maybe retire at 66, depending on market returns, at 50x. We were not interested in waiting that long. But our situation is common for people retiring early. The portfolio has to support more spending early, then SS comes in and helps out. We have the "defer SS" mindset.

But we should probably point the OP to any of the several long threads on withdrawal rates if they are interested in 25x versus 50x. Obviously I view 50x as far too conservative, even for someone retiring pretty early. And I think the most (not all) of the bogleheads view 2% withdrawal/50x expenses as too conservative. You simply have to work a lot longer to get that reserve. We wanted to retire while we had the energy and ability to do a lot of things.
Interesting perspective. Thanks for responding.

SQRT
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by SQRT » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:09 pm

Chip wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:41 am
TravelforFun wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:05 am
#4, all of the above.
Same here. Spending has probably ramped up 10% or so, plus I'm a little less obsessive about it. But I still couldn't justify buying a couple of business class seats on the last long airplane trip. Maybe after a few more years if/when I'm less tolerant of economy-class seats. :D
We have ramped up spending recently maybe 1/3 more. Large increase in gifting above this, and portfolio continues to increase( at least until very recently). Don’t fly economy, never did. After 12 years of retirement I figure we’ve pretty well dodged the sequence of return risk issue.

mariezzz
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by mariezzz » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:42 pm

madbrain wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:59 am
mariezzz wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:52 am
madbrain wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:01 am
Depends. Retiring on Mars might be expensive.
Also, might not be the most well-thought-out retirement plan.
Nonsense. All the trendy billionnaires are trying to get there. Cheaper than saving this planet, apparently.
lol. that's what gets me. so many think it's easier (and cheaper) to start over on a planet that has absolutely nothing necessary for life, than it is to fund renewable energy research, subsidies for people to adopt things like solar or wind power, and to take other measures to ensure we do not destroy our own planet. the fundamental flaw in logic just astounds me. did they learn nothing from matt damon's movie?

i also laugh at people who think space exploration is more important than exploring our own oceans. we know more about the moon than we do our deep oceans. people are somehow entranced by the idea of space exploration and have no interest in the mysteries of their own planet.

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goodenyou
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by goodenyou » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:03 pm

When I win the Mega Million (Billion) Lottery on Tuesday, it will be enough.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" | "The best years you have left are the ones you have right now"

AerialWombat
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by AerialWombat » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:25 pm

SQRT wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:26 am
I reverse the question. Enough is how much I have. Never had a “number”. Got very lucky and ended up with a lot. This is enough. Set my lifestyle to the amount I ended up with. Not the other way around. Not representative, I know.
+1. Excellent answer.

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abuss368
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by abuss368 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:11 am

Ideally for us it would be our expenses are covered by Social Security and Dividend Income.
John C. Bogle: "You simply do not need to put your money into 8 different mutual funds!" | | Disclosure: Three Fund Portfolio + U.S. & International REITs

hoops777
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by hoops777 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:34 am

Toons wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:50 pm
When we are able to do what satisfies our needs in the way of spending money,
And Compounding continues to grow the Net Worth.
:happy
Good answer :D
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.

hoops777
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Re: What do you consider 'enough'?

Post by hoops777 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:45 am

intangiblemoney wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:32 pm
Does anyone out there in their working years have a way of figuring out what is 'enough' in terms of income to support their current lifestyle and to also save for the future?

I know it's different for everyone but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on if and how you calculate how much is 'enough' money for you.
What is enough to support your current lifestyle should be very simple to figure out.What is leftover you save for the future.Seems pretty obvious at least in the way the question was asked.Of course the more difficult question is if your current lifestyle supports saving enough for your future.
K.I.S.S........so easy to say so difficult to do.

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