Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

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Topic Author
athan
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Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by athan »

I own a small business and have been on a small business Health Insurance plan for years. However, my staff are now either on their spouses plans, or ACA plans because it is less expensive (basically free) because of their income. They all work under 30 hours per week.

Anyway, my insurance provider just informed me they will cut off our insurance starting January 1. Reason being we need at least one non-owner employee on the plan with my family.

ACA plans will cost my family of 4 over $20,000 per year before we even take into account the over $12,000 deductible. To me this is outrageous, and I am looking into alternatives.

I am considering short term plans, church plans, placing the kids on CHIP and not getting insurance for my wife and me...

Does anyone have any experience with options other than Obamacare for someone not qualifying for the subsidies?

We currently have approximately $50,000 in an HSA account, and make approximately $200,000 per year.

My wife and I are 37 and our kids are 3 and 4.
pintail07
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by pintail07 »

If, none of you have ANY pre existing conditions, and know what is in your doctor records, short term plans are an alternative. They will run for a year and then one can renew. Most have broader networks, but don't cover all the essential benefits required by ACA. I can't emphasize how important it is to know what is in your doctor records. I explain this to my clients and require them to sign a form stating they understand the situation of pre existing conditions. Find a broker that shoots straight, and tells all the good bad and ugly.
Topic Author
athan
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by athan »

pintail07 wrote: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:46 pm If, none of you have ANY pre existing conditions, and know what is in your doctor records, short term plans are an alternative. They will run for a year and then one can renew. Most have broader networks, but don't cover all the essential benefits required by ACA. I can't emphasize how important it is to know what is in your doctor records. I explain this to my clients and require them to sign a form stating they understand the situation of pre existing conditions. Find a broker that shoots straight, and tells all the good bad and ugly.
Thanks...I have pre-existing neck fusion surgery and hip surgeries, but my wife and kids don't have any conditions. I am not currently being treated for the neck and hip issues.
WyomingFIRE
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by WyomingFIRE »

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delamer
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by delamer »

We have a friend who is a self-employed psychologist and gets health insurance for his family through a professional association.

Are there any professional or industry associations that you belong to?
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Topic Author
athan
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by athan »

delamer wrote: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:17 pm We have a friend who is a self-employed psychologist and gets health insurance for his family through a professional association.

Are there any professional or industry associations that you belong to?
I am a member of the American Dental Association and American Association of Orthodontists. Last I checked (a few years ago) the rates were pretty high, but that it is a good idea to check again. Thank you.
J295
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by J295 »

I don’t want to be snarky at all with this comment, but the reality is health insurance is very expensive and there are not many (or any?) great alternatives. I know from experience as a former partner in a professional organization.

You know that one possible alternative is you and your spouse not carrying insurance. I think that imprudent for a number of reasons, not the least of which is if you do end up with health conditions that bankrupt your family the you place not only you and your spouse, but your children in a difficult position.

Tough issue for sure. Best of luck in your search for reasonable alternatives.
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MP123
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by MP123 »

Assuming you don't qualify for subsidies your best bet is probably an ACA Bronze level plan that qualifies for an HSA contribution. And be sure to make it.

Non-ACA plans vary quite a bit so be sure you really understand the plan if you go that route. They're a poor substitute in my opinion.

I feel your pain, individual health insurance is getting pretty crazy. If you can keep your income low enough you can get subsidies that will pay for most of it but even one dollar over the cutoff and you pay for everything.
Mike Scott
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by Mike Scott »

You could hire some full time employees, provide benefits and keep your current plan.
InMyDreams
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by InMyDreams »

You may find this thread useful:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=257097
Topic Author
athan
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by athan »

Mike Scott wrote: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:00 pm You could hire some full time employees, provide benefits and keep your current plan.
I offer the benefits to all of my employees. My office is open Mon-Weds one week and Mon-Thurs the other week. That averages to just under 30hrs/week. Anyway, I am doing what is best for my employees. I have two employees that used to be on our plan, but now get free coverage for Obamacare (with low deductible compared to our plan) because I keep them under 30 hours/week (29 to be exact). I could increase some of their hours to over 30/week, but then they would not qualify for free health care through ACA. I am not willing to do this to save on my own health insurance.

[OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]
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MP123
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by MP123 »

athan wrote: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:46 pm
Mike Scott wrote: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:00 pm You could hire some full time employees, provide benefits and keep your current plan.
[OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]
When I looked at the health sharing ministry plans they generally had $100k maximum payout. Not even close to catastrophic (or even just sort of bad) coverage.

A short term plan with the option to get on ACA during open enrollment seems like rolling the dice. Will it even be around?

There really aren't any good choices for catastrophic coverage unless you can keep your income low enough to get ptc.
OnTrack2020
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by OnTrack2020 »

athan wrote: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:46 pm
Mike Scott wrote: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:00 pm You could hire some full time employees, provide benefits and keep your current plan.
I offer the benefits to all of my employees. My office is open Mon-Weds one week and Mon-Thurs the other week. That averages to just under 30hrs/week. Anyway, I am doing what is best for my employees. I have two employees that used to be on our plan, but now get free coverage for Obamacare (with low deductible compared to our plan) because I keep them under 30 hours/week (29 to be exact). I could increase some of their hours to over 30/week, but then they would not qualify for free health care through ACA. I am not willing to do this to save on my own health insurance.

[OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]
You may want to consider contacting your insurance agent that you purchase your auto and homeowners insurance through. I know ours also sells health insurance plans.
Tanelorn
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by Tanelorn »

Broadly, your non-ACA options include:

1.short term insurance, which is getting a boost from the current administrations so you can get multi year guaranteed renewals. Pros: cheap, good networks; Cons: preexisting exclusions, banned in some states

2. Ministry or similar cost sharing plans. Pros: cheaper; Cons: unclear how they might handle very expensive claims.

3. Self insurance. Pros: very cheap, good incentives for healthy lifestyle; Cons: more risky, probably requires $1-2M for worst cases

4. Group insurance thru association, separate LLC, or similar. Pros: reasonable prices, good networks available; Cons: modest additional expense in entity setup or intermediary fees

5. ACA bronze plans. Pros: good if you’re poor, old or sick; Cons: limited networks, often no PPO options, very expensive for value without subsidies.

You may find these prior discussions helpful.

Risks of non ACA insurance
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=232507

Does it make sense to drop health insurance
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=233323

Self-insuring health insurance
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=245051

Short term plans reviewed
https://www.fragiledeal.com/t/obamacare ... sion/31/95
InMyDreams
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by InMyDreams »

Tanelorn wrote: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:22 pm Broadly, your non-ACA options include:

1.short term insurance,... you can get multi year guaranteed renewals.
Not sure about that guaranteed renewal?

"Part of the Affordable Care Act dictates rules for non-ACA plans. As a result, Short Term Health Insurance plans cannot be automatically renewed, and you will need to submit a new application."

"Like medical insurance before the ACA, Short Term Health Insurance plans can deny your application based on your current and past health conditions. Insurers will often review up to five years of your health history. "


https://www.agilehealthinsurance.com/he ... -insurance

The list of individual states' regulations on this site is interesting:
https://www.healthinsurance.org/so-long ... erm-plans/
Tanelorn
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by Tanelorn »

InMyDreams wrote: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:44 pm Not sure about that guaranteed renewal?
The new HHS regulations went into effect this week, so it’s probably too soon to actually get some of the improved short term plans. But now they can be 12 months instead of 3 and are allowed to offer guaranteed renewals for up to 3 years. I think you would need a premium rider to make sure that that renewal was at the same price as before, however, and of course this is contingent on the insurer offering such a policy and your state regulations allowing it. But now it’s possible and there’s demand for these much more affordable policies so hopefully the insurance companies will offer products to meet it.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/short-term ... 1533162922
https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2018/08/ ... tions.html
https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspect ... -16568.pdf
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bottlecap
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by bottlecap »

Health insurance costs have become outrageous, and the cost hits especially hard for the self-employed and small businesses. It is largely controlled by government regulation now. Let your representatives know you are unhappy with the current course, directly and indirectly.

In the meantime, short term policies and health sharing ministries are the only things affordable now. Read the terms and conditions carefully so you know what you’re getting into.

If you live in Tennessee, there is an available option that can provide actual health insurance at very close to pre-ACA rates.

Good luck,

JT
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athan
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by athan »

I researched some of the 12 month short-term plans last night. I am going to look into these options more over the next two months. It looks like rates for my family of 4 are around $300/month and will pay up to 1M max.

With that amount of savings, this seems like the best catastrophic option I can find. It would not include my pre-existing neck,back, and hip issues. I will update as I find out more info.
gtaylor
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by gtaylor »

athan wrote: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:26 pm ACA plans will cost my family of 4 over $20,000 per year before we even take into account the over $12,000 deductible. To me this is outrageous, and I am looking into alternatives.

I am considering short term plans, church plans, placing the kids on CHIP and not getting insurance for my wife and me...

Does anyone have any experience with options other than Obamacare for someone not qualifying for the subsidies?

We currently have approximately $50,000 in an HSA account, and make approximately $200,000 per year.

My wife and I are 37 and our kids are 3 and 4.
That's surprisingly higher than ours, we're mid-40s with 3 kids, and pay ~14500. Given that I'm in Massachusetts, which I thought has the most expensive health care in the nation, you may be right that that's a bad deal. Or maybe you just live in a 33% less healthy zip code?

What state are you in? This makes all the difference. MA, for example, does sell small group plans to zero-non-owner-employee businesses. Through exactly one broker, via a handful of professional associations. So you really have to know where to go in your state...

Regardless, if you're paying the whole premium, the Bronze + HSA plans are the way to go, as they offer the best path to 100% pretax medical spending. Plus the cheapest ACA plan has the same OOP max as all the rest, so in the event of an OOP-hitting catastrophe, the actual coverage is the same for all the plans regardless of price (!). The 2018 OOP max is 14700, not much more than your deductible of 12000.
pintail07
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by pintail07 »

Not an expert in insurance, so forgive these ignorant questions:

(1) What is a "short term" plan? Who offers them? Are there examples? (I'm aware of the ACA, of course, and the faith-based alternatives.)

(2) I wasn't aware that "brokers" existed who offer assistance on health insurance matters. How does one go about finding a reliable health care insurance broker? Are they independently employed? Regulated by the states? Are they the same folks who sell life insurance and offer advice on company plans? If a 60 year old without a company plan needed help, could they call Northwestern Mutual, for example, and be informed about non-ACA health insurance products?

Thank you very much.
Few brokers deal with individual health. Most brokers like myself are licensed in multiple states.
talzara
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by talzara »

athan wrote: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:26 pm ACA plans will cost my family of 4 over $20,000 per year before we even take into account the over $12,000 deductible. To me this is outrageous, and I am looking into alternatives.
Which county of Pennsylvania do you live in? I don't see that plan on healthcare.gov for Rating Area 8 (Philadelphia, Delaware, Montgomery, Bucks, Chester).

The cheapest plans are:
  • Independence Blue Cross Personal Choice Bronze Reserve: $15,100 premium, $13,300 deductible, $13,300 out of pocket maximum.
  • Independence Blue Cross Personal Choice PPO Bronze: $16,500 premium, $11,000 deductible, $14,700 out of pocket maximum.
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athan
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by athan »

talzara wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:23 pm
athan wrote: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:26 pm ACA plans will cost my family of 4 over $20,000 per year before we even take into account the over $12,000 deductible. To me this is outrageous, and I am looking into alternatives.
Which county of Pennsylvania do you live in? I don't see that plan on healthcare.gov for Rating Area 8 (Philadelphia, Delaware, Montgomery, Bucks, Chester).

The cheapest plans are:
  • Independence Blue Cross Personal Choice Bronze Reserve: $15,100 premium, $13,300 deductible, $13,300 out of pocket maximum.
  • Independence Blue Cross Personal Choice PPO Bronze: $16,500 premium, $11,000 deductible, $14,700 out of pocket maximum.
I was estimating the cost and deductible, but I am in York county. I don't think the 2019 plans are out yet for PA.
alter
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by alter »

I recommend getting an HDHP+HSA plan. Use the money you saved on premiums to put towards the deductible and HSA.
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athan
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by athan »

alter wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:15 pm I recommend getting an HDHP+HSA plan. Use the money you saved on premiums to put towards the deductible and HSA.
The point is, the HDHP will still cost me around $20,000 per year through ACA. I am not saving money on premiums to put towards deductible and HSA.

A short-term plan would cost around $3,000 per year. That is a big difference, even if the short-term plans do not cover as much.
talzara
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by talzara »

athan wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:32 pm I was estimating the cost and deductible, but I am in York county. I don't think the 2019 plans are out yet for PA.
Unfortunately, rating area 7 (Adams, York, Lancaster, Berks) costs much more than rating area 8.

The 2019 rates have already been filed, but they have not yet been approved: https://www.insurance.pa.gov/Consumers/ ... 02019.aspx

The cheapest plan in your area is Geisinger Marketplace HMO 30/60/6100, which costs $17,230 a year with a $12,200 deductible and $14,700 out of pocket maximum. They filed a 6.8% rate increase for 2019, so it should cost about $18,400 next year.
talzara
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by talzara »

gtaylor wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:40 am That's surprisingly higher than ours, we're mid-40s with 3 kids, and pay ~14500. Given that I'm in Massachusetts, which I thought has the most expensive health care in the nation, you may be right that that's a bad deal. Or maybe you just live in a 33% less healthy zip code?
Massachusetts has Romneycare, so it was insulated from the Trump administration's decision to end CSR payments for Obamacare. Pennsylvania was hit very hard:
the Trump Administration later confirmed on October 12 that federal funding for CSR would end immediately). The final average rate increase was 30.6 percent for 2018; it would have been in the range of 7.6 percent if CSR funding had been committed for 2018.

https://www.healthinsurance.org/pennsyl ... /#insurers
Things are different across the river in New Jersey. The cheapest plan in the Philadelphia suburbs is a Bronze plan that costs $12,100, with a $6,000 deductible and $13,100 out of pocket maximum. It costs less than the Pennsylvania plans, and it'll cost even less next year. The average premium is going down 9% in 2019 because New Jersey enacted a state-level individual mandate.

Massachusetts and New Jersey have always been the exceptions. GEICO used to sell auto insurance in 48 states and the District of Columbia. Now the two states are at it again with health insurance.
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dm200
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by dm200 »

athan wrote: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:26 pm I own a small business and have been on a small business Health Insurance plan for years. However, my staff are now either on their spouses plans, or ACA plans because it is less expensive (basically free) because of their income. They all work under 30 hours per week.

Anyway, my insurance provider just informed me they will cut off our insurance starting January 1. Reason being we need at least one non-owner employee on the plan with my family.

ACA plans will cost my family of 4 over $20,000 per year before we even take into account the over $12,000 deductible. To me this is outrageous, and I am looking into alternatives.

I am considering short term plans, church plans, placing the kids on CHIP and not getting insurance for my wife and me...

Does anyone have any experience with options other than Obamacare for someone not qualifying for the subsidies?

We currently have approximately $50,000 in an HSA account, and make approximately $200,000 per year.

My wife and I are 37 and our kids are 3 and 4.
What were you paying under the employer plan for your family (total)?

Yes - over $20,000 is a lot (BUT not ucommon)
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athan
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by athan »

[/quote]

What were you paying under the employer plan for your family (total)?

Yes - over $20,000 is a lot (BUT not ucommon)
[/quote]

I was paying $1200/month for a PPO with $12,500 deductible.

Also, that payment was pre-tax through the business. I believe now I will have to pay with after tax dollars.
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bottlecap
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by bottlecap »

alter wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:15 pm I recommend getting an HDHP+HSA plan. Use the money you saved on premiums to put towards the deductible and HSA.
You will find that the prices the OP is quoting are HDHPs. At leas they are in my area.

JT
madbrain
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by madbrain »

Give your employees a raise, so that your premiums for employee-only is less than 9.5% of their household income.
At that point, they will be ineligible for ACA subsidies, and will probably choose the cheaper employer coverage plan instead.
Of course, they will probably resent it. But hey, you won't have to pay that big unsubsidized premium and deductible for yourself ...
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by madbrain »

bottlecap wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:52 pm
alter wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:15 pm I recommend getting an HDHP+HSA plan. Use the money you saved on premiums to put towards the deductible and HSA.
You will find that the prices the OP is quoting are HDHPs. At leas they are in my area.

JT

Just checked coveredca.org in California in my zip code for family of 4 with OP family's ages, income $200k so no subsidy.
Bronze plans range from $862 to $1679/month depending on insurer.
Platinum plans range from $1737 to $3442/month depending on insurer.

So maybe moving to CA will save OP's money.
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dm200
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by dm200 »

athan wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:47 pm
What were you paying under the employer plan for your family (total)?

Yes - over $20,000 is a lot (BUT not ucommon)

I was paying $1200/month for a PPO with $12,500 deductible.

Also, that payment was pre-tax through the business. I believe now I will have to pay with after tax dollars.
Maybe not - since your own business. I would check with accountant.

Yes - big jump. Any kind of HMO available that would meet your needs at a lower price?
SuzBanyan
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by SuzBanyan »

talzara wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:23 pm
athan wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:32 pm I was estimating the cost and deductible, but I am in York county. I don't think the 2019 plans are out yet for PA.
Unfortunately, rating area 7 (Adams, York, Lancaster, Berks) costs much more than rating area 8.

The 2019 rates have already been filed, but they have not yet been approved: https://www.insurance.pa.gov/Consumers/ ... 02019.aspx

The cheapest plan in your area is Geisinger Marketplace HMO 30/60/6100, which costs $17,230 a year with a $12,200 deductible and $14,700 out of pocket maximum. They filed a 6.8% rate increase for 2019, so it should cost about $18,400 next year.
If the OP is paying $14,400 in 2018, then this is a $4,000 increase for 2019. But in context, this is the only plan mentioned so far that covers the pre-existing conditions of the OP, who appears to be the main bread winner for the family. Even if the OP also already has adequate disability insurance, this may not be a risk that the family should take to save $4K.
brendavid
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by brendavid »

I live in tn and my wife just got denied insurance for cancer from 22 yrs ago. It was a short term plan, but be careful, they can refuse renewal and you will be left out in the cold. At least with ACA you don’t have to worry about pre-existing conditions. The short term plans are cheaper but you get what you pay for and just hope you don’t get sick.
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dm200
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by dm200 »

brendavid wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:06 pm I live in tn and my wife just got denied insurance for cancer from 22 yrs ago. It was a short term plan, but be careful, they can refuse renewal and you will be left out in the cold. At least with ACA you don’t have to worry about pre-existing conditions. The short term plans are cheaper but you get what you pay for and just hope you don’t get sick.
Not yet, anyway
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MP123
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by MP123 »

athan wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:47 pm
Also, that payment was pre-tax through the business. I believe now I will have to pay with after tax dollars.
Most likely you will be able to take the self employed health insurance deduction for the full amount of the premiums and the HSA deduction if you get an HSA compatible plan.

Small consolation but it does help.
Tanelorn
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by Tanelorn »

brendavid wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:06 pmat least with ACA you don’t have to worry about pre-existing conditions.
But with the ACA you do have to pay for other people’s preexisting conditions in your premiums, so if yours aren’t worse then average or if you’re not getting a subsidy based on your income, you’re getting a bad value. This is why other alternatives can be higher quality and similar or lower cost.
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athan
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by athan »

MP123 wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:04 pm
athan wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:47 pm
Also, that payment was pre-tax through the business. I believe now I will have to pay with after tax dollars.
Most likely you will be able to take the self employed health insurance deduction for the full amount of the premiums and the HSA deduction if you get an HSA compatible plan.

Small consolation but it does help.
Is this true? I thought the self employed health insurance deduction was for owners without employees.
delamer
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by delamer »

Tanelorn wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:24 pm
brendavid wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:06 pmat least with ACA you don’t have to worry about pre-existing conditions.
But with the ACA you do have to pay for other people’s preexisting conditions in your premiums, so if yours aren’t worse then average or if you’re not getting a subsidy based on your income, you’re getting a bad value. This is why other alternatives can be higher quality and similar or lower cost.
That’s true of any group plan — your premiums reflect the medical claims of others in the pool.
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bottlecap
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by bottlecap »

madbrain wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:14 pm
bottlecap wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:52 pm
alter wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:15 pm I recommend getting an HDHP+HSA plan. Use the money you saved on premiums to put towards the deductible and HSA.
You will find that the prices the OP is quoting are HDHPs. At leas they are in my area.

JT

Just checked coveredca.org in California in my zip code for family of 4 with OP family's ages, income $200k so no subsidy.
Bronze plans range from $862 to $1679/month depending on insurer.
Platinum plans range from $1737 to $3442/month depending on insurer.

So maybe moving to CA will save OP's money.
Not like moving to Tennessee would.
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MP123
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by MP123 »

athan wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:31 pm
MP123 wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:04 pm
athan wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:47 pm
Also, that payment was pre-tax through the business. I believe now I will have to pay with after tax dollars.
Most likely you will be able to take the self employed health insurance deduction for the full amount of the premiums and the HSA deduction if you get an HSA compatible plan.

Small consolation but it does help.
Is this true? I thought the self employed health insurance deduction was for owners without employees.
How is your business organized? S-corp? More than 2% shareholder of it? W2 employee of it? LLC? Less than 50 employees so you don't have to offer health insurance?

In general I don't think that the self employed health insurance deduction on 1040 line 29 or the HSA deduction requires that you have no employees.
madbrain
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by madbrain »

bottlecap wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:19 pm Not like moving to Tennessee would.
Yeah ? Why don't you post the costs for the bronze plans in TN ?
casualflower
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by casualflower »

I've been in your situation..transitioned from my own business health plan to ACA, then to off-ACA but conforming plan. $14,500 a year for a family of 5. But it's still cheaper than what I was paying for a business plan. What were you paying before? And that does not even include the share of premiums we were paying for employees. So even at $15K a year with a $12K deductible, it's still cheaper than business insurance.

I use a broker, she's great.
StealthRabbit
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by StealthRabbit »

Health Sharing networks... not too comforting (since it is NOT insurance),
$300 / month average _ + $100 / yr for $1m to infinity cap https://www.kitces.com/blog/healthcare- ... are-plans/

(no income, no wealth risk) so... I Have used it and friends / family as well (High Needs / Cancer (4 friends) ... 90 day ICU + cranial surgery (niece)_...)

Has worked out OK for all, tho delayed payments / threats from hospital at times. (same with insurance payment lag)
All conditions were covered with <$20k OoPocket (worst case) = one yr A(?)CA premium

With $200k / yr income and high(er) needs (and potential wealth risk...) I would seek insurance options. - just the 'price-of-admission' to play the game in USA...

Can always leave the USA as a medical (Healthcare) refugee, or join the 15m worldwide using medical tourism. https://patientsbeyondborders.com/ Including many from Eurozone 'national HC')
LawyersGunsAndMoney
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by LawyersGunsAndMoney »

Have you considered joining a PEO like TriNet or Justworks?

You'll be able to buy insurance at a large group rate. We switched to a PEO a few years ago because we were getting killed on the small group health insurance market in NY, and the cost savings have been dramatic (even accounting for the cost of PEO membership).
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bottlecap
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Location: Tennessee

Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by bottlecap »

madbrain wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:31 pm
bottlecap wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:19 pm Not like moving to Tennessee would.
Yeah ? Why don't you post the costs for the bronze plans in TN ?
Oh, they are similar to the OP, as I've indicated.

But you did not read my posts. And you are not familiar with the market in Tennessee. I’m not talking about ACA plans.

JT
mnnice
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by mnnice »

Maybe the OP’s spouse should find a part time job with insurance? It looks to me like a $15k job with good benefits could really yield the household more like 35-50k (depending on how much care they need in a given year).
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dm200
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by dm200 »

mnnice wrote: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:30 am Maybe the OP’s spouse should find a part time job with insurance? It looks to me like a $15k job with good benefits could really yield the household more like 35-50k (depending on how much care they need in a given year).
Today, I suspect such positions are very, very rare.
madbrain
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Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by madbrain »

StealthRabbit wrote: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:26 am Health Sharing networks... not too comforting (since it is NOT insurance),
$300 / month average _ + $100 / yr for $1m to infinity cap https://www.kitces.com/blog/healthcare- ... are-plans/

(no income, no wealth risk) so... I Have used it and friends / family as well (High Needs / Cancer (4 friends) ... 90 day ICU + cranial surgery (niece)_...)

Has worked out OK for all, tho delayed payments / threats from hospital at times. (same with insurance payment lag)
All conditions were covered with <$20k OoPocket (worst case) = one yr A(?)CA premium

With $200k / yr income and high(er) needs (and potential wealth risk...) I would seek insurance options. - just the 'price-of-admission' to play the game in USA...

Can always leave the USA as a medical (Healthcare) refugee, or join the 15m worldwide using medical tourism. https://patientsbeyondborders.com/ Including many from Eurozone 'national HC')
Medical tourism is great for elective procedures, but for emergencies, I think you are going to find that doesn't work. A lot of medical debt is acquired from emergencies.

For chronic condition care, medical tourism might work. A monthly round trip to Thailand for both of us does cost less than the uninsured cost of our HIV prescription meds. And they can be had as generics for $35/month each there, vs about $2.5K each for uninsured patients.
Topic Author
athan
Posts: 259
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:33 pm

Re: Need Health Insurance (Non-ACA Options)

Post by athan »

MP123 wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:00 pm
athan wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:31 pm
MP123 wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:04 pm
athan wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:47 pm
Also, that payment was pre-tax through the business. I believe now I will have to pay with after tax dollars.
Most likely you will be able to take the self employed health insurance deduction for the full amount of the premiums and the HSA deduction if you get an HSA compatible plan.

Small consolation but it does help.
Is this true? I thought the self employed health insurance deduction was for owners without employees.
How is your business organized? S-corp? More than 2% shareholder of it? W2 employee of it? LLC? Less than 50 employees so you don't have to offer health insurance?

In general I don't think that the self employed health insurance deduction on 1040 line 29 or the HSA deduction requires that you have no employees.
I am a partner in S-Corp with 12 employees.
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