Anyone ever use a career counselor/career coach?

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WageSlave
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:20 pm

Anyone ever use a career counselor/career coach?

Post by WageSlave »

I've been thinking about a job change for longer than I care to admit. Two problems I'm facing: I'm not sure if I'm simply falling victim to "the grass is always greener" syndrome. The other: I am absolutely certain my current pay is dramatically above market rate, and the bulk of my career experience is doing company-specific niche things that have zero demand at other employers.

So I've been reading about "career counselors" and "career coaches", and wondering if they can help with my dilemma. Specifically, I'm looking for someone to:
  • Help me see if indeed I've just convinced myself that "the grass is greener" somewhere else
  • Knows my area's job market for my skillset (Chicago-area, IT/software engineering)
  • Can give guidance/assistance on how to handle my niche-experience and pay liabilities
  • Help me get realistic expectations on pay, benefits, culture, hours, etc if I were to switch
  • Connect me with a recruiter/headhunter who might be particularly effective for my given circumstances
  • Refer a good employment attorney who can help me understand the details of the things I've signed
Interested to hear if anyone has experience along these lines. If you have a good experience and know someone in the Chicago area, please feel free to PM me.

Thanks!
afan
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:01 pm

Re: Anyone ever use a career counselor/career coach?

Post by afan »

Not in Chicago, but I had a career coach years ago.

My employer paid for this and got ripped off. The person made a lot of promises but knew nothing. Absolutely nothing. At first it was puzzling since the things she said made no sense. I gather people who listened to her superficially found her glib, which they liked, and thought there was deep meaning behind her claims. But once we got to work it became clear that she had no idea what she was talking about.

For example, she told me I talked too fast and used too many technical terms. I am sure she had no idea what they meant. She said I should just give people a general idea. Like you, I am in a technical field and a "general idea" is meaningless. At one point I had to explain that a particular technical term to which she objected referred to a list of numbers. The numbers had to be entered and used correctly. There was no general idea involved.

She would confabulate things she swore were true, then get angry when I would show her proof that she was wrong on the facts. After a while the amusement wore off and I just stopped dealing with her.

Thing is, she is still at it. Apparently getting paid based on her sales pitch.

This has given me a negative view of the entire "profession", if it can be called that.

If my pay were dramatically above market I am not so sure I would be looking to change jobs. What you do sounds sufficiently specialized that it seems unlikely to pay to change fields. Why not milk your current job for all it is worth?
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
WildBill
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Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Anyone ever use a career counselor/career coach?

Post by WildBill »

WageSlave wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:17 pm I've been thinking about a job change for longer than I care to admit. Two problems I'm facing: I'm not sure if I'm simply falling victim to "the grass is always greener" syndrome. The other: I am absolutely certain my current pay is dramatically above market rate, and the bulk of my career experience is doing company-specific niche things that have zero demand at other employers.

So I've been reading about "career counselors" and "career coaches", and wondering if they can help with my dilemma. Specifically, I'm looking for someone to:
  • Help me see if indeed I've just convinced myself that "the grass is greener" somewhere else
  • Knows my area's job market for my skillset (Chicago-area, IT/software engineering)
  • Can give guidance/assistance on how to handle my niche-experience and pay liabilities
  • Help me get realistic expectations on pay, benefits, culture, hours, etc if I were to switch
  • Connect me with a recruiter/headhunter who might be particularly effective for my given circumstances
  • Refer a good employment attorney who can help me understand the details of the things I've signed
Interested to hear if anyone has experience along these lines. If you have a good experience and know someone in the Chicago area, please feel free to PM me.

Thanks!
Howdy

You have a long list of requirements. In my experience a single person probably does not exist with this set of skills and experience that is available for hire. There are experienced senior executives around, likely some at your firm, who might.

Do you have some credibility/experience as a “special projects” or “trouble shooter” kind of guy within your firm? If that is the case, you may or may not be overpaid. I had that profile for several years and some of the projects I delivered were worth orders of magnitude whatI was paid.

Figure out your value to and where you stand within your firm first. You may conclude you are underpaid.

Good luck

W B
"Through chances various, through all vicissitudes, we make our way." Virgil, The Aeneid
afan
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Re: Anyone ever use a career counselor/career coach?

Post by afan »

You are probably going to do better by talking with people you know who are in your field. Friends or acquaintances who can give a perspective on your current situation and career options. Someone who purports to be a a general career expert is not likely to know much about your line of work.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
Topic Author
WageSlave
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:20 pm

Re: Anyone ever use a career counselor/career coach?

Post by WageSlave »

afan wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:54 pm Not in Chicago, but I had a career coach years ago.
...
This has given me a negative view of the entire "profession", if it can be called that.
It's not surprising to read this. I'm sure there's no shortage of yahoos such as you described. What little I've seen, it seems most will do a free initial consultation. So I'm thinking that if I come to the consultation armed with my questions, I can get a sense of whether or not they are full of it, or have some practical knowledge/experience.

WildBill wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:39 pm You have a long list of requirements. In my experience a single person probably does not exist with this set of skills and experience that is available for hire.
Do you think there's anyone for hire who can answer at least a couple of those?

afan wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:54 pm If my pay were dramatically above market I am not so sure I would be looking to change jobs. What you do sounds sufficiently specialized that it seems unlikely to pay to change fields. Why not milk your current job for all it is worth?
I've been here for over a decade. Milking it has been the plan, but I just don't think I can do it any more. It's hard to explain the situation concisely, but I'll summarize and say the culture is just a bad fit. Everyone is kept on a super-short leash, no one is trusted, people are fired without any reason or explanation, the owner is paranoid people are stealing from him... I could go on, but in short, I just don't respect the owners (I report to them). They have mastered the art of managing by being vague so when they backpedal, it's not quite a lie.

WildBill wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:39 pm There are experienced senior executives around, likely some at your firm, who might.

Do you have some credibility/experience as a “special projects” or “trouble shooter” kind of guy within your firm? If that is the case, you may or may not be overpaid. I had that profile for several years and some of the projects I delivered were worth orders of magnitude whatI was paid.
I have done for the owners things that are artificially hard. Because the owners do not understand technology, they want things done in ways that make them feel good, but are technically inappropriate. In other words, there is almost an easier, established industry best-practice way of doing something, but they don't understand it, so it instead has to be done in a convoluted, usually fragile way. These aren't innovations or solving new problems; it's re-inventing the wheel in cringe-worthy ways. An analogy: it's as though they don't understand hammers, so I've used screwdrivers to hammer nails for them. For my tenure and trust they place in me, they pay huge. But I am certain no one else will pay anything to hammer with a screwdriver, because everyone else just uses a hammer.

A former colleague recently left, and is already finding it hard to find a new job. He was there for a few years, and almost all those years were wasted in terms of career experience. He has kind of been the canary in the coal mine for me, exposing what I long suspected: all the time I've been milking the pay, my career has been moving backwards. I really think that every year I've been here, I've made 2-3x what I would anywhere else, but my career advanced the equivalent of a week.

afan wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:24 pm You are probably going to do better by talking with people you know who are in your field. Friends or acquaintances who can give a perspective on your current situation and career options. Someone who purports to be a a general career expert is not likely to know much about your line of work.
I agree, the problem is I don't have any network on which to lean. I moved to the area for this position, the only people I know in the field/industry are at this small company. Everyone else I know is in a completely different field/industry.
desafinado
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Re: Anyone ever use a career counselor/career coach?

Post by desafinado »

I think I've seen a couple of your other posts and suspect we're in the same space. One thing to consider would be moving to a much larger industry player who is still kind of playing catch up from the technological side (such as a bank) instead of staying at a small, closely-held firm. Even if you haven't quite been following the same best practices as the very fastest/sharpest teams, you probably have a lot to offer a group that's trying to play catch up and build their infrastructure but still might have deep pockets to pay for experience. Consider working with a recruiter/headhunter to make that transition.
cautious
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Re: Anyone ever use a career counselor/career coach?

Post by cautious »

I did successfully - 40 years ago. After flailing around a while, I went to a licensed psychologist at a local university. After a series of tests and a discussion of the results, he explained why I should consider going back to school. He nailed it. Best advice I ever had. Happily retired now with multiple academic degrees.

More recently, several relatives have done the same thing. One in the brokerage business wondered if he was in the right profession. A series of tests by a licensed psychologist confirmed he was in the right field. Opened his own firm and is retiring soon at a very early age.

You may just need confirmation. Test results and consultation can make your interests and strengths clear - and sometimes give voice to something in your blind spot. Just make sure you choose a licensed professional. You might try your local universities for referrals.
Hillview
Posts: 524
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Re: Anyone ever use a career counselor/career coach?

Post by Hillview »

I worked with a career coach a couple of years ago. She works with an ivy league business school population primarily. I am years older than most of those folks but she was useful, took some standard tests and she did read outs for me, also did a 360 review which my company had never done. Both were useful for what I wanted to do next.

I am currently working with a coach in a new role I recently took on. It has been helpful as I get up and running quickly.

Neither really matches what you listed but some experiences.
domoi
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Re: Anyone ever use a career counselor/career coach?

Post by domoi »

Bumping this thread hoping that the OP would post an update. And perhaps Bogleheads would be willing to share their recent experiences?

Similar to the OP, I am at a career crossroads and need to reassess. I used LinkedIn ProFinder to receive proposals from six career coaches and interviewed several of them. One seems knowledgeable and has many good reviews, so I am contemplating the next steps. I searched for relevant threads, and of course Bogleheads did not disappoint! :happy
oilrig
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Re: Anyone ever use a career counselor/career coach?

Post by oilrig »

I am a recruiter and could probably provide a lot of guidance/advice to you if I was in your location and industry. I would suggest finding a local recruiter who specializes in your industry. They could probably help you out a lot more than a career coach who probably doesn’t know a lot about your industry.
Nearly A Moose
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Re: Anyone ever use a career counselor/career coach?

Post by Nearly A Moose »

How about just going straight to a headhunter?
Pardon typos, I'm probably using my fat thumbs on a tiny phone.
domoi
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Re: Anyone ever use a career counselor/career coach?

Post by domoi »

oilrig wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:28 pm I am a recruiter and could probably provide a lot of guidance/advice to you if I was in your location and industry. I would suggest finding a local recruiter who specializes in your industry. They could probably help you out a lot more than a career coach who probably doesn’t know a lot about your industry.
Thank you for responding! I was under the impression that recruiters would only coach for those positions they represent (mostly with large companies), while I'd also like to consider small employers/startups, marketing and education agencies or other alternative, but related careers. Would recruiters spend time coaching me on something they don't market? But I do hear you - I was also concerned that the career coach I like is only experienced with large companies (he did help many clients to find jobs in my field)
Last edited by domoi on Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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pondering
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Re: Anyone ever use a career counselor/career coach?

Post by pondering »

Thanks for bringing up an interesting topic.

Have you tried the flower exercise from What Color Is Your Parachute?

https://doctorpms.wordpress.com/2017/07 ... -exercise/
--Robert Sterbal | robert@sterbal.com | 412-977-3526
domoi
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Re: Anyone ever use a career counselor/career coach?

Post by domoi »

Nearly A Moose wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:04 pm How about just going straight to a headhunter?
I am indeed approached by many headhunters via LinkedIn since my field is in high demand. However, I'd like to consider my choices and also need to update my resume and linkedIn profile (where the coach can help as well). I spent too many years with the same company, and may not be familiar with many opportunities in my industry and the merging fields. Additionally, even though I live in larger metro area, everybody knows each others and news travel quickly. So I would rather have a full control of the application process and target a small number of jobs. I may indeed need to contact headhunters eventually, but don't feel ready yet.
domoi
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Re: Anyone ever use a career counselor/career coach?

Post by domoi »

pondering wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:21 pm Thanks for bringing up an interesting topic.

Have you tried the flower exercise from What Color Is Your Parachute?

https://doctorpms.wordpress.com/2017/07 ... -exercise/
Thank you! I've never heard of this exercise, but this is precisely where I need to start. The coach I spoke to uses similar exercises and questionnaires and he also collects 360-degree feedback to help identify my hidden strengths and weaknesses. Of course, this is just the beginning. The next challenge is finding position types, which fit my needs. Lastly, I would need to brand myself for these jobs, update my resume, prepare for interviews, identify networking opportunities, target companies and possibly recruiters. This is precisely the process I am contemplating, and it seems useful. But this is also a significant commitment of time and money.
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