A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

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Horsefly
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A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by Horsefly » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:24 pm

We moved our primary banking from Wells Fargo to Ally bank about five months ago. I'm glad to be rid of the thieves at Wells Fargo, and we've been pretty happy with almost everything at Ally. Almost...

We have gone pretty much paperless for every business we deal with, for multiple reasons. We've had lots of incidents in our neighborhood of mail theft, including at our own address. The homes are pretty spread out (1-2 acre lots), and most have a normal mailbox at the end of the driveway. We often go on 4-8 day trips, and with everything paperless it is pretty much just a few pieces of junk mail each day, so we can let it accumulate until we get back without any issue. Finally, we don't like the waste of paper entailed in paper statements, and in the case of banking / investments, we don't like having to shred them periodically.

When we got the account set up at Ally, I immediately changed the preferences to go paperless. Somehow, the statements kept coming in the mail. So I would go back in and change it back and forth in hopes the paperless setting would "stick". No dice. Statements kept coming.

So today I call Ally and ask them to fix it. After some time, the agent explained that due to both Ally Policy and Law they had to send us paper statements because our account was registered under our Trust. I challenged him, in that other financial institutions (Wells Fargo, Fidelity, and our CU) all have our accounts registered under the same Trust, and were happy to go paperless with our statement. He quickly admitted that it probably was not required by law, but was an Ally policy. When I asked him to explain the policy, he couldn't.

So we have bank accounts, investment firms, credit union accounts, seven credit cards, a car loan, water bill, electric bill, cable bill, cell phone bill, and a gas bill. All are paperless, except for Ally. The real irony is that Ally is an online bank! Why Wells Fargo with all its 19th century habits can go paperless but Ally can't makes no sense to me.

I've written a letter to Ally asking them to both explain and reconsider this policy. I'll post back here if/when I hear back from them.

If anyone here knows the reason for this policy, I'd love to hear.

Steve

P.S. Just to be clear: Ally is in all other respects much, much better than Wells Fargo, and I would encourage anyone who does not have a Trust to move to Ally.

Trapper
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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by Trapper » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:25 pm

Get a PO Box?

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fortfun
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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by fortfun » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:30 pm

Horsefly wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:24 pm
We moved our primary banking from Wells Fargo to Ally bank about five months ago. I'm glad to be rid of the thieves at Wells Fargo, and we've been pretty happy with almost everything at Ally. Almost...

We have gone pretty much paperless for every business we deal with, for multiple reasons. We've had lots of incidents in our neighborhood of mail theft, including at our own address. The homes are pretty spread out (1-2 acre lots), and most have a normal mailbox at the end of the driveway. We often go on 4-8 day trips, and with everything paperless it is pretty much just a few pieces of junk mail each day, so we can let it accumulate until we get back without any issue. Finally, we don't like the waste of paper entailed in paper statements, and in the case of banking / investments, we don't like having to shred them periodically.

When we got the account set up at Ally, I immediately changed the preferences to go paperless. Somehow, the statements kept coming in the mail. So I would go back in and change it back and forth in hopes the paperless setting would "stick". No dice. Statements kept coming.

So today I call Ally and ask them to fix it. After some time, the agent explained that due to both Ally Policy and Law they had to send us paper statements because our account was registered under our Trust. I challenged him, in that other financial institutions (Wells Fargo, Fidelity, and our CU) all have our accounts registered under the same Trust, and were happy to go paperless with our statement. He quickly admitted that it probably was not required by law, but was an Ally policy. When I asked him to explain the policy, he couldn't.

So we have bank accounts, investment firms, credit union accounts, seven credit cards, a car loan, water bill, electric bill, cable bill, cell phone bill, and a gas bill. All are paperless, except for Ally. The real irony is that Ally is an online bank! Why Wells Fargo with all its 19th century habits can go paperless but Ally can't makes no sense to me.

I've written a letter to Ally asking them to both explain and reconsider this policy. I'll post back here if/when I hear back from them.

If anyone here knows the reason for this policy, I'd love to hear.

Steve

P.S. Just to be clear: Ally is in all other respects much, much better than Wells Fargo, and I would encourage anyone who does not have a Trust to move to Ally.
I had the same thing happen. They eventually stopped. I'm not sure if I clicked to go paperless on a subsequent email they sent me or if their system finally started working. I received them for the first year or so but have not received one in quite some time now. Maybe try making the change on your phone???

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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by Horsefly » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:44 pm

Trapper wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:25 pm
Get a PO Box?
That was actually what the CSR suggested. Renting a P.O. Box (the nearest place I could do that is about 15 minutes away) just for one paper bank statement per month that I don't even want seems really un-Boglehead. I'm hoping that the people who read the letter will see how stupid this policy is and back down. I know, I'm being silly....

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Horsefly
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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by Horsefly » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:48 pm

fortfun wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:30 pm
I had the same thing happen. They eventually stopped. I'm not sure if I clicked to go paperless on a subsequent email they sent me or if their system finally started working. I received them for the first year or so but have not received one in quite some time now. Maybe try making the change on your phone???
When you say making the change on the phone, do you mean calling customer service? Since that is just what I did, I don't think that would work. If there is a menu system that I can try, I guess that is different. I'll call back and see if I can get paperless as an option in the menus.

Although it is confusing, I guess I'm a little more optimistic after reading that it did eventually stop for you. Thanks for giving me some hope!

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HueyLD
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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by HueyLD » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:08 pm

Horsefly wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:48 pm
fortfun wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:30 pm
I had the same thing happen. They eventually stopped. I'm not sure if I clicked to go paperless on a subsequent email they sent me or if their system finally started working. I received them for the first year or so but have not received one in quite some time now. Maybe try making the change on your phone???
When you say making the change on the phone, do you mean calling customer service? Since that is just what I did, I don't think that would work. If there is a menu system that I can try, I guess that is different. I'll call back and see if I can get paperless as an option in the menus.

Although it is confusing, I guess I'm a little more optimistic after reading that it did eventually stop for you. Thanks for giving me some hope!
I am not sure if forfun's account is a trust account. It appears that it is not.

Ally's internal policy is to mail out statements for trust accounts. I have asked more than once, and there is no way to turn off the paper unless of course you either change your account type or close your account.

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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by Zott » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:26 pm

I've been through this for several years. At one point, a CSR manually turned off paper statements for my trust account and that worked well for a couple of years. Then last year I purchased a CD (prior to that, everything was in an Online Savings account). That automatically caused the paper statements to start. I had multiple discussions, like you, with no answer except that it's their policy. I actually had a PO box (for other purposes) and the statements went there, but I decided to close it. I then also closed the account at Ally to be done with it. When I called to close, they asked why and I told them why they were losing an account well into 6-figures due to their dumb policy.

During this, I discovered that I could do just as well with this cash at Fidelity so I'm happy, although I keep a small joint account at Ally and have always been pretty happy with them except for this.

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fortfun
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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by fortfun » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:31 pm

Horsefly wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:48 pm
fortfun wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:30 pm
I had the same thing happen. They eventually stopped. I'm not sure if I clicked to go paperless on a subsequent email they sent me or if their system finally started working. I received them for the first year or so but have not received one in quite some time now. Maybe try making the change on your phone???
When you say making the change on the phone, do you mean calling customer service? Since that is just what I did, I don't think that would work. If there is a menu system that I can try, I guess that is different. I'll call back and see if I can get paperless as an option in the menus.

Although it is confusing, I guess I'm a little more optimistic after reading that it did eventually stop for you. Thanks for giving me some hope!
Sorry, I meant on the phone app. I checked it in a bunch of different places before it finally stuck. Besides that, I do love Ally.

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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by Kevin M » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:52 pm

Been living with this idiocy for years.

If your trust is simple, an alternative is to use payable on death (POD) accounts instead. I started doing that when I was opening a bunch of CDs at Ally years ago, as it was much simpler and faster. I now have both at Ally, but still get the paper statements for the trust accounts. They go straight into the shredder.

Kevin
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Horsefly
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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by Horsefly » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:53 pm

Zott wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:26 pm
I've been through this for several years. At one point, a CSR manually turned off paper statements for my trust account and that worked well for a couple of years. Then last year I purchased a CD (prior to that, everything was in an Online Savings account). That automatically caused the paper statements to start. I had multiple discussions, like you, with no answer except that it's their policy. I actually had a PO box (for other purposes) and the statements went there, but I decided to close it. I then also closed the account at Ally to be done with it. When I called to close, they asked why and I told them why they were losing an account well into 6-figures due to their dumb policy.

During this, I discovered that I could do just as well with this cash at Fidelity so I'm happy, although I keep a small joint account at Ally and have always been pretty happy with them except for this.
This is really sad.

It took weeks for me to get my direct deposits and electronic payments all set up and verified, moving from Wells Fargo to Ally. I really hate doing it again, especially since I like Ally in all other respects.

I'm generally a Fidelity fan, and have used their Cash Management Account for bill pay and such, but didn't really like it. It's mostly because everything to Fidelity is kind of a brokerage account, so all the transactions look mostly like "orders". I just remember at the time I used it for a few weeks (before I moved to Ally), I decided to keep Wells Fargo as my main bank, instead of Fidelity.

I hope they will respond to my letter. I haven't mailed it yet, and I may mention this thread and the fact that they have lost other customers (you!) for the same reason.

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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by afan » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:39 am

If someone reports getting them to stop sending paper then it appears not be be a policy that they must do this for trust accounts. This sounds more like a customer service problem. Annoying as it may be, often the solution is to escalate the concern past the person who answers the phone. Politely but firmly keep asking for someone higher up the food chain. A supervisor.

The alternative is to go above everyone's head and write to the CEO. They will not read your letter, of course. But whoever reads mail for the CEO will know where to send the issue within the Ally system.

If the reason HueyLD got them to stop is some difference in that account versus your's then it is possible the CSR person is correct about the policy and you may be stuck.
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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by terran » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:50 am

Thanks for starting this thread. I've been a happy Ally customer for years and will be taking over as trustee of a trust, so I probably would have opened an account for it at Ally, but after this thread, probably not so much.

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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by GeoffD » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:23 am

Holy first world problems, Batman.

If you have a mail theft problem, get a PO box. I have my emergency fund at Ally. 1 day transfers with my brick & mortar bank. They answer the phone without a huge queue. The person at the other end of the phone call typically speaks American English as their first language and tends to be well trained. Unless you have "chase the highest interest rates OCD", they pay the highest in the industry year after year so it's not worth the hassle of chasing introductory offers elsewhere.

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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by Leemiller » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:25 am

Move banks. Last I checked there were a number of options. Not sure I’d be risking identity theft or driving out of my way for a bank.

PhilosophyAndrew
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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by PhilosophyAndrew » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:45 am

OP, if you find it inconvenient to have the bank statements delivered to your mailbox, you can easily change banks or rent a PO Box.

Asking the organization to change its policy seems like an exercise in frustration because your request is unlikely to lead anywhere.

Andy.

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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by mrc » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:47 am

A locking mailbox can solve this problem. Our box is across the street, and I've been thinking about doing just that for a while. Something like this model, isn't Fort Knox, but would deter the average drive-by sticky fingers from grabbing a statement.
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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by Lancelot » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:53 am

afan wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:39 am
The alternative is to go above everyone's head and write to the CEO. They will not read your letter, of course. But whoever reads mail for the CEO will know where to send the issue within the Ally system.
I agree. I have done this a few times, with very satifactory results. Yes the CEO will not personally read your letter- but a very able assistant or VP will.
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Horsefly
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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by Horsefly » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:42 am

OP here. It seems everyone has an opinion of what I should do to fix this on my end, mostly by changing where the statements get delivered (P.O. box or new mailbox) or changing banks. I don't find either of those acceptable, but I appreciate the thoughts.

Like I said in the original post, I was hoping someone had a high probability answer for why this policy would exist, given that other financial institutions don't have the same policy.

I've written the letter and was getting ready to send it to their customer care department, but based on a couple of comments here I'm going to address it both to the CEO and to the customer care department, and send it both places. I agree it is likely that nothing will come of it, so we'll just have to decide what we do about the statements.

We generally put our mail on vacation stop if we are gone more than a week. Ironically, that should be a good solution all the time, but our post office is not very dependable in starting or ending a vacation stop. We've had the neighbor check and found that mail was continuing to get delivered during the stop. Other times, after the scheduled end it could take a week or more before they start delivering our mail. Another frustration, for another thread!

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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by HueyLD » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:35 am

Please let us know what Ally tells you.

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dcnut
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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by dcnut » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:44 am

DW and I both have living trusts with multiple accounts at Ally. We went thru this exact same problem several years ago -- made quite a stink about it too. Ally would not budge. We have had a similar problem at Discover Bank, but not at other banks such as Popular Direct (eLoan). We finally just opted for the PO box which costs us $110 per year now. We now have almost all our mail going to the PO box, with the exception of junk and charitable donations, which sell their address lists.

Glenn

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Horsefly
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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by Horsefly » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:43 pm

dcnut wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:44 am
DW and I both have living trusts with multiple accounts at Ally. We went thru this exact same problem several years ago -- made quite a stink about it too. Ally would not budge. We have had a similar problem at Discover Bank, but not at other banks such as Popular Direct (eLoan). We finally just opted for the PO box which costs us $110 per year now. We now have almost all our mail going to the PO box, with the exception of junk and charitable donations, which sell their address lists.

Glenn
Again, disheartening info. But thanks.

They never gave you any explanation as to why this was their policy?

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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by dcnut » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:17 pm

Horsefly wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:43 pm
dcnut wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:44 am
DW and I both have living trusts with multiple accounts at Ally. We went thru this exact same problem several years ago -- made quite a stink about it too. Ally would not budge. We have had a similar problem at Discover Bank, but not at other banks such as Popular Direct (eLoan). We finally just opted for the PO box which costs us $110 per year now. We now have almost all our mail going to the PO box, with the exception of junk and charitable donations, which sell their address lists.

Glenn
Again, disheartening info. But thanks.

They never gave you any explanation as to why this was their policy?
Oh, they said they same stuff -- trust statements had to be sent via US mail to satisfy some kind of regulation or another. Actually, for while, Ally did stop sending the statements via postal mail, but they reverted back to sending them again after a few months. That is when I raised a big stink -- even threatening to close the accounts.

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Horsefly
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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by Horsefly » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:38 pm

OP here. I thought I would follow-up with what I heard from Ally. They sent me a letter, and kind of addressed what I was asking. It's somewhat interesting, makes some sense, but doesn't explain why others don't do the same.

So to review: I want paperless statements. I'm paperless with every other institution that I do business with. Ally says they can't switch me to paperless, because our account is in the name of a revocable living trust.

So here's the crux of what they say. Each customer has a unique profile. If our account was a joint account, my wife and I would be the customers, and we each would have a profile. In the case of our current account, there are profiles for myself, my wife, and the trust itself. Although my wife and I (the trustees) could consent to paperless statements, there really is no way for the trust to consent, and the trust can not access on-line statements. Hence, they must mail paper statements to the address on record for the trust.

The letter specifically says that they have to do this to comply with Federal Regulations. I pointed out that no one else has this problem, but they didn't really address why they are unique.

EDIT: One thing I thought of since the original thread discussion: I think the other accounts I have that are in the name of our trust and remain paperless (Fidelity, Credit Union, Wells Fargo) all were open as a joint account, and were re-titled for our trust when we did it back in 2013. Maybe if I had opened the Ally account before, then re-titled it under our trust we could have been paperless?

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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by carbil » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:29 pm

Does anyone know the specific regulation(s) to which they are referring, and that few other institutions apparently adhere?

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HueyLD
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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by HueyLD » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:41 am

It is obviously Ally’s own internal policy. Ally is regulated just like other banks and other banks seem to have no problem with e-statements.

They use one of the two oldest excuses in the book: (1) the government forces us to do it, and/or (2) our computer/IT system is not capable of handling it.

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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by MikeG62 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:13 pm

I've been an Ally customer for over a decade. Have referred lots of people their way too.

However, the relationship has not always been smooth. Most frustration resulting out of joint checking account I set up with my daughter for her to draw cash from while in college. Forget about me calling and getting any answers from them about anything having to do with transactions arising from my daughter's use of her ATM/Debit card. I might as well be a complete stranger - and this response despite me being listed as primary on the account and every single dollar in that account being supplied by me.

My daughter has graduated college this past spring and I subsequently closed that joint checking account out of more frustration with them about it. Was easier than trying to get my daughter to call them with me. We tried that last year and my daughter forgot the answer to one of her security words (note I was able to provide all of mine) and they hung up the phone on us.

I was not sad to close 9 no-penalty CD's and move a mid 6-figure amount of money out of Ally earlier this year (got higher yield elsewhere). Felt they got what they deserved frankly.

This has not stopped me from though from taking advantage of their new $1,000 bonus offer (well $2,000 when combined with my DW). :beer
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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by mptfan » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:17 pm

HueyLD wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:41 am
They use one of the two oldest excuses in the book: (1) the government forces us to do it, and/or (2) our computer/IT system is not capable of handling it.
+1 It drives me crazy when someone or some organization claims that they have to do something because of a law or a regulation, but they can't cite the law or regulation, or the law or regulation they cite does not say what they claim it says. It's often made up to justify the way they do things.
Last edited by mptfan on Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by mptfan » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:19 pm

Horsefly wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:38 pm
The letter specifically says that they have to do this to comply with Federal Regulations. I pointed out that no one else has this problem, but they didn't really address why they are unique.
Did the letter specifically cite which federal regulations?

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Re: A Frustration w/ Ally Bank, Trust Account, and Paperless Statements

Post by Horsefly » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:10 pm

mptfan wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:19 pm
Horsefly wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:38 pm
The letter specifically says that they have to do this to comply with Federal Regulations. I pointed out that no one else has this problem, but they didn't really address why they are unique.
Did the letter specifically cite which federal regulations?
No.

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