Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

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HomerJ
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by HomerJ » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:22 pm

RW73 wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:58 pm
I am guilty of worrying too much about the downside…..it’s a round-about way of being protective of my kids, I guess.
For the past 4 years, you've abandoned your kids.

Don't waste any more time on this company. This company does not love you. Your wife and kids love you.

You don't want to be known as a quitter. Would you rather be known as a fool? You're obviously very smart. Do the math.
The J stands for Jay

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TxAg
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by TxAg » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:33 pm

I didn't bother reading all the replies. There's no amount of money that would entice me to work that many hours with kids at home.



Edit: I read the replies. I don't mean to be rude, but you're being selfish at this point. Your family needs you. I'll say it again....they need YOU, not more money. You've got enough. Reframe your thinking. Your wife and kids come first.

downshiftme
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by downshiftme » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:21 pm

I generally work 16 to 17 hours/day during the week (12 at the office, and 4 or 5 more when I get home, sometimes more…maybe a little less on Fridays), and typically about 15 hours on the weekend
You are a stranger to your kids and spouse. They practically never see you.

There is no financial compensation that is adequate to make up for losing your family. You need to fix this working situation or retire asap.

RW73
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by RW73 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:26 pm

Afty , no definitely not saving lives....

michaeljc70
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by michaeljc70 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:51 pm

After saving heavily for 25 years, there is no need to continue at this pace. I wouldn't think twice about quitting. Your kids are teenagers and in 8 years you will not be able to get that time back.

First, I would try to see if moving to another position in the company is possible. Maybe at a reduced salary with reduced hours/responsibilities to try and preserve the pension.

BogleBike
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by BogleBike » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:20 pm

Yes, I would quit the job.

1. To not quit runs a serious risk of shortening your own life.
2. You have family who love you, shortening your life deprives them of your presence.
3. While you're alive, the work also takes you away from them.
4. The only financial significance to your family if you quit would be the kids with disabilities. You have more than enough to cover this reasonably even if you never work again. The worst case would be deciding whether you need a tiny tweak to your own lifestyle to make absolutely certain that your financial support of them will last through their lifetimes. If you quit, you'll have enough time to arrange this.
5. Other work is something you should only do if you LIKE it. In that case, you can find plenty of work.
6. You've done enough work contributions to society. Anything beyond what you've done to this point is extra.
7. This isn't quitting in the sense of failing some commitment due to a weakness of will. This is quitting in the sense of correctly choosing not to screw up your family's life, and giving your workplace orderly notice instead of dropping dead at your desk.
8. I'm not kidding about 7. I'm 50something, lost more than one friend recently. Including a guy happy as a clam about his recent promotion.
9. You will likely work but work less, while your family sees you more. That plus living longer is a double win.
10. The first 9 reasons are plenty.

RW73
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by RW73 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:02 pm

I should have arrived at this juncture years ago, but I can only influence the future now. It’s been eye opening to read these comments. My lovely wife has been right here with me reading each post and team RW73 appreciates the feedback which has helped solidify our plan. Should another post come up, we look forward to being on the REPLY side, sounding the same alarm you've all done so loudly.

mortfree
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by mortfree » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:08 pm

Just don’t say “I quit”

Come up with something clever.

Update on how it went will be appreciated .

Good luck!

SoAnyway
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by SoAnyway » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:55 pm

RW73 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:02 pm
I should have arrived at this juncture years ago, but I can only influence the future now. It’s been eye opening to read these comments. My lovely wife has been right here with me reading each post and team RW73 appreciates the feedback which has helped solidify our plan. Should another post come up, we look forward to being on the REPLY side, sounding the same alarm you've all done so loudly.
Um, point of clarification: Does that plan involve (to use your words) "a methodical and graceful resignation"? And if so, in what general timeframe?
Sorry - I don't mean to be dense, OP. Just don't want to "assume".... ; )

mainiac
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by mainiac » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:17 pm

My brother in law just dropped dead last week with no warning, Quit!

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beyou
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by beyou » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:19 pm

I worked in a career where people were happy to watch you kill yourself. At some point, I just decided that the kids only grow up once, and I was not going to miss it. Did take a job with better work/life balance, but after a few years had go back to a more difficult situation. After a short time, I realized I can’t regress to my past, and just started focusing on family. Gainfully employed for years at same firm working less hrs than I used to. Nothibg terrible happened, and my kids grew up with a Dad around. May have given away some upside, but college is almost paid for now, and glad I spent time with them before college. Leave if you must, but try cutting back and see what happens.

FoolMeOnce
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by FoolMeOnce » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:25 pm

RW73 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:02 pm
I should have arrived at this juncture years ago, but I can only influence the future now. It’s been eye opening to read these comments. My lovely wife has been right here with me reading each post and team RW73 appreciates the feedback which has helped solidify our plan. Should another post come up, we look forward to being on the REPLY side, sounding the same alarm you've all done so loudly.
Congratulations on your decision.

youdiditr2
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by youdiditr2 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:33 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:37 am
I have found that employers are universally willing to let employees like you work 24/7 to avoid hiring another person. Stop it! If they won't properly staff up, stuff won't get done. In the middle of my career, I saw myself extending hours like you are and specifically forced myself to stop it. 5:00 came on the clock at work and I would drop what I was doing and go home. No working from home, no coming in on weekends. At meetings, when asked why a task wasn't done, I'd ask what other task could be dropped for me to focus on completing that task. Eventually, they figured it out and hired more people. When I finally did leave, they replaced me with 3 people. I didn't have to quit to limit my time at work. I just had to convince myself that I had to put in the limits. I thought to myself.....if I drop hours, what's the worst they can do? Fire me? Well, how's that any different from me leaving? It isn't.

Don't think the grass is always greener. If you go to a small, private company, personalities of the owners can make for a completely dysfunctional organization.

That's how it work at my work place. When I quit, they hired 2 people to replace me. I told them before I quit that it was too much for one person.

Now when they ask me why something isn't done, I just tell them what they want me to priortize first because there's only 9 hours in the work day and my health doesn't allow me to work 12 hours a day now.
If they fire me, who cares. I would quit anyway if I'm forced to work 50 hours a week.

Good thing being FI, the employer can't take advantage of you anymore since you can quit anytime you want.

RW73
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by RW73 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:01 pm

I obviously don't have any experience leaving companies since all my 25 years have been at one company....so the feedback from experienced people on this forum has provided new perspective and caused me to tune my approach.

I kind of thought feedback on this forum might be 75% leave, 25% stick it out.....In over 100 replies, I didn't see any "stick it out" comments which was eye-opening for me since when I have the "leave" discussion with (a few trusted) colleagues at work, most would not fathom leaving.....part "Kool Aid" I guess, part they don't have the assets I am blessed with (incidentally - virtually no one at my office would expect I have $10M).

We (family) are all on board to leave/resign. "Methodical and Graceful" has evolved to "Resolute and unashamed". I've been on the threshold of making this decision for some time, leaving forward about take the leap. General timeframe is 2 to 4 weeks. I did not mention, but I do have about a half-dozen colleagues that resigned over the past several years (some from the group I am in, others not). I am setting up time with them to get particulars for all the various aspects of their departures. One aspect I have not been able to get good information on (wouldn't change my mind) is vague language around restricted stock clawback if it matured recently....I can call and get the official policy, but if I ask for it, that request will be passed on to my senior management, quickly. So I'll just get that info from my colleagues. It's possible I need to pay part/all of that back.

In my remaining weeks, I also want to write up some documents for my colleagues that I will give them on the day I give notice. They will understand my drivers for leaving, but it will also cause them extra work until they replace me....and since I care for these people, I want to document some things to ease their burden.

SoAnyway
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by SoAnyway » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:08 am

Yay, Team RW73!!! Woo-hoo!! :sharebeer

Seriously, OP, you will look back on this a year from now and - other than marrying your very patient and lovely wife - view it as the best decision you've ever made. Check that. Actually, you will probably look back a year from now and beat yourself up for not having made it sooner, lol. My $.02: Be kind to yourself. At each point over the past 25, and esp. past ~4(?), years since taking on this role, at each point you were just doing what you believed you needed to do to best support your family. There is NO shame in that!

FWIW, a few reactions/responses to your post:
RW73 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:01 pm
In over 100 replies, I didn't see any "stick it out" comments which was eye-opening for me since when I have the "leave" discussion with (a few trusted) colleagues at work, most would not fathom leaving.....part "Kool Aid" I guess, part they don't have the assets I am blessed with (incidentally - virtually no one at my office would expect I have $10M).
On the Kool Aid piece, I was on both sides of such conversations at various times. When I was still lovin' it, I couldn't fathom why anyone would ever want to leave. I didn't express this to anyone who'd decided to leave, of course; I simply expressed my gratitude to them for having had the opportunity to work with them, whether superior/peer/subordinate. Once I had hit the wall and decided to leave, I couldn't believe how many people were asking me how on Earth I'd fill my newfound free time. Again, I felt no need to preach. I simply said Hmm, not sure but I'm sure I'll figure it out....
Everyone learns at their own pace - self included, of course!
RW73 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:01 pm
We (family) are all on board to leave/resign. "Methodical and Graceful" has evolved to "Resolute and unashamed".
Even better! :sharebeer
RW73 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:01 pm
I did not mention, but I do have about a half-dozen colleagues that resigned over the past several years (some from the group I am in, others not). I am setting up time with them to get particulars for all the various aspects of their departures. One aspect I have not been able to get good information on (wouldn't change my mind) is vague language around restricted stock clawback if it matured recently....I can call and get the official policy, but if I ask for it, that request will be passed on to my senior management, quickly. So I'll just get that info from my colleagues. It's possible I need to pay part/all of that back.
Very smart strategy, OP, for all the reasons you suggest. Either way, I'm sure you'll adapt accordingly. I can't imagine that this would be a show-stopper financially.
RW73 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:01 pm
In my remaining weeks, I also want to write up some documents for my colleagues that I will give them on the day I give notice. They will understand my drivers for leaving, but it will also cause them extra work until they replace me....and since I care for these people, I want to document some things to ease their burden.
I did the same, and they did appreciate it. In return, they also felt the need to keep me informed about various internal politics after my departure. Be aware that it's often the case that higher-ups see any employee departure as an opportunity to "point to the empty seat" should anything go wrong in future, i.e. "Oh! Well that was RW73's decision/responsibility....", often things that you had NO involvement in. Should this happen, thank your colleagues but ignore it all. You're free, and they're not. :happy BTW, also be prepared to hear about how they replaced you not with 1 person, but with 2-4 people.....

Honestly, I wish you and your family all the best, OP, and I am so happy for y'all. To Mortfree's point, please DO update when appropriate!

TPT
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by TPT » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:17 am

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Last edited by TPT on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

Dave55
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by Dave55 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:22 am

RW73 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:01 pm
I obviously don't have any experience leaving companies since all my 25 years have been at one company....so the feedback from experienced people on this forum has provided new perspective and caused me to tune my approach.

I kind of thought feedback on this forum might be 75% leave, 25% stick it out.....In over 100 replies, I didn't see any "stick it out" comments which was eye-opening for me since when I have the "leave" discussion with (a few trusted) colleagues at work, most would not fathom leaving.....part "Kool Aid" I guess, part they don't have the assets I am blessed with (incidentally - virtually no one at my office would expect I have $10M).

We (family) are all on board to leave/resign. "Methodical and Graceful" has evolved to "Resolute and unashamed". I've been on the threshold of making this decision for some time, leaving forward about take the leap. General timeframe is 2 to 4 weeks. I did not mention, but I do have about a half-dozen colleagues that resigned over the past several years (some from the group I am in, others not). I am setting up time with them to get particulars for all the various aspects of their departures. One aspect I have not been able to get good information on (wouldn't change my mind) is vague language around restricted stock clawback if it matured recently....I can call and get the official policy, but if I ask for it, that request will be passed on to my senior management, quickly. So I'll just get that info from my colleagues. It's possible I need to pay part/all of that back.

In my remaining weeks, I also want to write up some documents for my colleagues that I will give them on the day I give notice. They will understand my drivers for leaving, but it will also cause them extra work until they replace me....and since I care for these people, I want to document some things to ease their burden.
Congrats team RW73, excellent decision.

Dave

dziuniek
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by dziuniek » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:49 am

If my wife was your wife, I wouldn't be married anymore.

Also you can work another couple years and add another couple million to your net worth. You can also lose all of it in a divorce - making working another several years a wash, lost time, sunk cost, etc.

- I'm not a quitter.

This reminds me of public accounting and it seems the brainwashing is strong with this one.

Retiring =/ Quitting.

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greg24
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by greg24 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:53 am

Congrats to Team RW73!!

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HomerJ
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by HomerJ » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:03 am

dziuniek wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:49 am
Retiring =/ Quitting.
Yeah, that's like winning the race, running through the tape, and then you keep on running around the track because you don't want to be a "quitter". The OP has WON... He's worked hard, and he's won the race.

:)

And of course, the OP doesn't have to retire... Take a few months or a year off, and if he WANTS to, he could see what's out there.

There are plenty of interesting jobs where you don't have to work crazy hours.
Last edited by HomerJ on Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Watty
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by Watty » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:15 am

RW73 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:01 pm
We (family) are all on board to leave/resign. "Methodical and Graceful" has evolved to "Resolute and unashamed". I've been on the threshold of making this decision for some time, leaving forward about take the leap. General timeframe is 2 to 4 weeks.
Congratulations on the decision.

One thing to be prepared for is that once you give your notice things may feel awkward around the office and you will likely want to get out of there as soon as possible so don't give a long notice.

Except in unusual circumstances two weeks notice is plenty since if they have a dire need for you they can work out a deal to have you come back at as a contractor at an hourly for a while to help with the transition. If they are paying you by the hour the work will likely be strictly limited to being an 8 hour day which is sort of ironic.

RW73
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by RW73 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:22 am

Thanks Watty - I plan on giving two weeks notice. However, I deal with some pretty sensitive activities, so I expect to be walked out of the building very shortly after turning in my notice… So the awkward period will probably be minimal!

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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by Lieutenant.Columbo » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:54 pm

RW73 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:22 am
I plan on giving two weeks notice. However, I deal with some pretty sensitive activities, so I expect to be walked out of the building very shortly after turning in my notice… So the awkward period will probably be minimal!
RW73,
If you've said it here, I've missed it. Why did you choose the "two week notice" over the "I'll just work 40-50 hours a week and keep the job for as long as allowed to"? Thank you.
Lt. Columbo: Well, what do you know. Here I am talking with some of the smartest people in the world, and I didn't even notice!

RW73
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by RW73 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:20 pm

You haven’t missed anything. My reasoning for not requesting a reduced workweek is, first, I am in a management position and well plugged into these type of personnel issues as they come up so I already know most will get turned down. And, second, of those few that do get approved, sustaining the agreement is very behavior driven… Get a new manager, the agreement could fall apart and I would be faced with the same dilemma in six months, 12 months, ?? months from now.

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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by gluskap » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:47 pm

To me the question isn't "should you quit?" but "when should you quit?" I get that you are apprehensive about not having enough money because the kids are special needs but I don't think 8 years with those hours are really sustainable. Quitting doesn't necessarily mean not working at all. I think getting a new job with half the salary but reasonable hours would still insure you are making extra just in case for emergencies but that you can still enjoy life and be with your family. Having said that, once you've decided you will quit, there is really no downside to asking for a move. Best case scenario, they move you and you don't get any raises or any more restricted stock but you would still be eligible for pension and with normal working hours you could easily last another 8 years. You are already making enough money, the raises or restricted stock is not really something you need but an extra bonus but to me not worth the additional hours of work. Worse case scenario, you ask and they force you out and it will have been the same as resigning. When you make the ask though you should still work with recruiter to see if you can find another job and compare the other offers against staying and see what makes more sense.

Lucien786
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by Lucien786 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:41 pm

RW73 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:02 pm
I should have arrived at this juncture years ago, but I can only influence the future now. It’s been eye opening to read these comments. My lovely wife has been right here with me reading each post and team RW73 appreciates the feedback which has helped solidify our plan. Should another post come up, we look forward to being on the REPLY side, sounding the same alarm you've all done so loudly.
HALLELUJAH

I was going to say -- how many of these literally unanimous posts do you need before coming to the conclusion?

I would say, don't listen to a bunch of strangers on the internet -- but on the rare occasion when they all speak with the same voice, that is a surprising and meaningful result.

" "Methodical and Graceful" has evolved to "Resolute and unashamed"."

Thank God.

Now that you're out, it's time to find a psychiatrist who specializes in deprogramming people from cults.

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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by surfstar » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:14 pm

Money is NOT everything and despite what some may say, you only go around once on this planet. Make the most of your TIME.

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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by chipperd » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:25 am

Congrats on your decision. I only wish mine was as clear cut. Best of luck in your new lifestyle.

danaht
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by danaht » Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:40 am

OP your working 2.5x a normal person's hours. Your company better be compensating you 4x for this - if not I would leave. Get a job with a 40 hour work week and be happy. There are a lot of mega-corps that offer great benefits - and also keep the hours at 40. For instance, If I am forced to work more than 40 hours a week due to an emergency at work - I keep track of that time - and my manager gives me time off later for that. I am a software developer - and realize that most developers have to work more than 40 hours a week in other companies - so I really appreciate that company policy.

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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by ChowYunPhat » Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:51 am

Man...just reading through the posts and journey....congrats team RW73! So happy for you and your family.

I'm a day late but share same feelings as most other posters. Life is too short, and the meaning and pride you take in your work can be channeled elsewhere. I was in a caustic work environment which was out of balance much like yours....wife had to convince me that my employer didn't own me and it was OK to look (best advice ever).

Some other things to consider as you plan your transition:
1. Managing your exit. You are already networking with similar folks so on the right track here. Consider if your importance to the team could be leveraged into a part time consulting role or part time schedule. Could achieve some income, give you more balance, and time to figure out what you want to do in "retirement". Who knows, employers have been known to package up auto-vesting RSUs and other goodies for those who can bridge the time gap to their successor. Given the detail you've shared, I suspect this is less likely, but you should go into the discussion with your boss with a plan to address several scenarios. Good luck with this.
2. Full time retirement means a lot more time. Consider how you will spend time. There is only so much time you can spend with family, hobbies and working out. As much as you've worked, going cold turkey could be harmful as well.
3. After you've thought through #1 and #2, don't delay and do not let your employer talk you into staying under the same circumstances. The temptation may be great, and they may dangle a large chunk of new cash and stock in front of you.
4. You should try financial modeling your retirement lifestyle. The value of reducing your savings rate (via lower paying, less stressful job) should have less impact than you might expect given the size of your nest egg.

Best of luck to you and again, congrats!!!
A wise man and his money are friends forever...

moehoward
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by moehoward » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:16 am

I think someone on the thread said exhaust all options first, I agree. Personally, I don't think the question is money but mind set. Guys like you (me) like stress and getting things done, it becomes part of who we are. With that said, if you walk away, don't look back. After I retired I purposely when on a long trip out of US so I wouldn't be tempted to jump back in. If you can, take a year sabbatical, it will do wonders for your psyche.

blinx77
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by blinx77 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:50 am

I did not read the whole thread but as a former corporate attorney who also lost a number of family members recently I wanted to put in another vote for quit.

Health is wealth. You don't know how much time you have on earth, or how much time your family does. The intensity of your job is almost certainly damaging your health and may shorten your time with those you love. You are also sacrificing time with those you love right now.

You have an obligation to do good work but not an obligation to dedicate your entire 24/7 to a job. You seem to have internalized work ethic with morality (I do this too, but not to the same extent) and one hangup you have seems to be that you think you will have done something bad or wrong by "falling short." Once you kill this paradigm, the choice will become much easier. It is not bad or wrong to want to do productive work for a limited period of time and then spend time on other activities (family, friends, fun, etc.). In fact, recharging can sometimes help you be more efficient and effective when you are on duty.

If you are worried from walking away from too much, you could try this: Go to your boss and say "I've greatly enjoyed my career here at X,Y,Z company but I've been working 80 hours a week for years and am exhausted. I have also as a result of diligent saving reached the point where I can retire early if I like. My preference, though, would be to remain engaged and active and contributing to X, Y, Z corp but in a role where I have pre-negotiated hours so that I can spend more time with my family. Is this something we could work to arrange together? I'm afraid the current arrangement is no longer sustainable for me."

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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by Amanda999 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:42 am

OP - I doubled checked your screen name twice, to see if you were my spouse, or if I wrote this years ago (before I quit my job)! Our facts are nearly identical (including age when considering the issue; two children with special needs - which for others means a huge added financial factor of being able to support 1 or perhaps both of them for decades after we're both dead - i.e., basically 4 retirements; investments).
FWIW I tried part-time at same employer first, then different industry/setting, then quit my career (home with the kids now, while spouse works non-profit, lower salary job with good benefits).

So, I guess I'd recommend (to a stranger! so take it with a grain): really crunch your numbers (can you live on just spouse's income? do you have enough that in x years - once spouse retires - you can both retire and fund a special needs trust(s) that if not touched until your death, will provide some quality of life for your child(ren)?
HTH. Good luck!

gold99xx
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by gold99xx » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:09 am

HOW did you even have the time to write the post??

HOW will you find the time to read the responses??

'I wish I had worked more" said NO ONE ever....

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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by Lafder » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:07 am

Wow to all of the wisdom in these posts.

OP, you have enough $$ to make choices based on non financial factors. It seems the discussion has tipped you towards what you know is the best decision for you and your family. Your company is a big organization and will continue on long after you are gone. You are more replaceable than you would like to think :)

I am guessing that in the next days and weeks as you sort things out, your mind will flip flop between knowing leaving is right, and questioning/finding ways to convince yourself you can stay...........

You KNOW what it is like to be there. You do not KNOW what it is like NOT to be at that job.

Keep us posted on your process.

And....................once you sort out your current toxic job, and what you will do with your time........we need to talk more about you worrying about your kids future financial well being with the amount of savings you already have. If you are worried about your kids, special as they may be, with the amount of assets you have.........you are a bit delusional or overly worried and we can help talk you through that. That is worthy of a post of its own.

I like my job for the most part, But I don't work the hours you do. I am jealous of the option to quit and not have to find a replacement job. I do have to work to support the home and lifestyle I like. It sounds like you want to work, just not at this grueling life sucking pace. So you can have the luxury of finding a job you enjoy with reasonable hours. Which could be consulting on a part time basis for high hourly pay, or a part time job. I read a book years ago called something like How Starbucks saved my life. about someone quitting their high stress job to work at Starbucks which came with health care and benefits.........

Give yourself a pat on the back for the time you took to post here and read the responses and reply. Go home and hug your family and think about what matters the most to you :)

lafder

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Lieutenant.Columbo
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by Lieutenant.Columbo » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:03 pm

blinx77 wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:50 am
If you are worried from walking away from too much, you could try this: Go to your boss and say "I've greatly enjoyed my career here at X,Y,Z company but I've been working 80 hours a week for years and am exhausted. I have also as a result of diligent saving reached the point where I can retire early if I like. My preference, though, would be to remain engaged and active and contributing to X, Y, Z corp but in a role where I have pre-negotiated hours so that I can spend more time with my family. Is this something we could work to arrange together? I'm afraid the current arrangement is no longer sustainable for me."
200% agreed!
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David Jay
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by David Jay » Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:30 pm

Lieutenant.Columbo wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:03 pm
blinx77 wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:50 am
If you are worried from walking away from too much, you could try this: Go to your boss and say "I've greatly enjoyed my career here at X,Y,Z company but I've been working 80 hours a week for years and am exhausted. I have also as a result of diligent saving reached the point where I can retire early if I like. My preference, though, would be to remain engaged and active and contributing to X, Y, Z corp but in a role where I have pre-negotiated hours so that I can spend more time with my family. Is this something we could work to arrange together? I'm afraid the current arrangement is no longer sustainable for me."
200% agreed!
+2
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by simas » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:11 pm

I was 'speaking' pretty loudly earlier that you should end the self-destructive ways of working like that.

However, I am now adding the voice of having the conversation with your boss/mentor/leadership and see what you can negotiate. Be honest, be upfront, be humble, and then let them discuss and act (usually if you are high enough it would pretty fast). you have no downside in doing this (you can always quit), and huge upside even if it does not work out (hey I remember that guy and he was honest, true, right in dealing with me/us that 10-15 years ago, I want him, man has integrity) . the reverse can also hurt (he dumped us with zero chance of working anything out or handling transition, pretty low, no integrity, blah-blah-blah).

Your chain of command can weight all of the institutional knowledge you have, can transition you out, transition you to another internal position ("park you" for few years), etc.

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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by dknightd » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:21 pm

I'm sorry I did not take the time to read the whole thread.
What did you end up deciding to do?

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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by RW73 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:18 pm

I've decided to leave....I don't see any downside to starting that conversation with the reduced hours approach, so I do plan to initiate the conversation with that (similar to what blinx77 said). Though I am ~100% sure that will fail (see interesting point 3 below).

We appreciate the continued excellent input in these replies and the numerous private messages sent.

We're getting ready to implement our plans, so we won't post for while but thought we'd share three other interesting points over the past week....

First, my management does not yet know about my exit plans, so they don't know I will not be around in December. But to plant a seed, for the first time in four years, I told my boss that I was going to take vacation and travel during the week of Christmas and the adjacent weekends…..and that I wasn’t taking a laptop and would only be able to take one or two critical phone calls. This really took him by surprise and he couldn't muster a logical response, but he did come back later and say something along the lines of "I don't know about that, you need to get ABC done...." (PS - I am NOT in a role that has any kind of year-end crunch, so I am not walking away from special year-end responsibilities).

Second, I’ve shared my plans with close family members and trusted friends over the past week. My family is well aware of my work hours because I’ve not been to any weddings, reunions, celebrations, graduations, funerals, etc for years. All of them were very excited....that is, all except for one. When I told my parents (both retired), my mother had no issues with it. My father took it differently. While he always supports me, and does in this decision too, he didn’t see anything wrong with the long hours. He worked for a smaller company and he worked very hard in his career. He didn’t make as much money, so he couldn’t fathom walking a way from my $$. I’m a grown man and that doesn’t change my mind one bit, but I do have the utmost respect for my parents, so it weighs on me a bit.

Third, I have plans to tap into knowledge from several former colleagues. I traded emails with one of them this week - he left my same group (same reason) about the time I was coming in. He tried several approaches to get his hours reduced to ~50 to 60. While they didn't say "no", they still assigned the same level of work on evenings, weekends, and vacation/holiday periods.

We’ve got numerous activities planned over the next several weeks including meeting to learn more about special needs trust options…..and going to a full physical checkup which I have not done since about early 2015 (kind of anxious about those results). I look forward to posting updates later this year....

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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by go_mets » Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:19 pm

RW73 wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:18 pm
My father took it differently. While he always supports me, and does in this decision too, he didn’t see anything wrong with the long hours. He worked for a smaller company and he worked very hard in his career. He didn’t make as much money, so he couldn’t fathom walking a way from my $$. I’m a grown man and that doesn’t change my mind one bit, but I do have the utmost respect for my parents, so it weighs on me a bit.

It does weigh but it should eventually lessen to nothing.
When I first walked away from my last job as a "real" employee with not another job in hand, my mother (my father is dead) was very anxious.
To be honest, I was a bit worried myself.
But in the five intervening years, she has seen that I have been able to "survive" with contract/temp jobs.

Good luck to you and your family.

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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by harrychan » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:47 pm

I'm sorry it came to this. I was late but read the entire thread. I am thoroughly amazed at this community and how similar minded Bogleheads are in their philosophy. I am blessed to have found this forum in my early 30's and get to read real life advice stemmed from your situation.

As I read through your post and responses, I immediately think of the inefficiency and lack of boundaries from your management team. Its unfortunate there are not controls put into place to consider the health and well-being of its employees. I also endured being on call 24-7 and occasionally working 16-18 hour days but not at your level. I've since learned to empower my junior managers to pick up the load and make decisions on my behalf.
RW73 wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:18 pm
All of them were very excited....that is, all except for one. When I told my parents (both retired), my mother had no issues with it. My father took it differently. While he always supports me, and does in this decision too, he didn’t see anything wrong with the long hours. He worked for a smaller company and he worked very hard in his career. He didn’t make as much money, so he couldn’t fathom walking a way from my $$. I’m a grown man and that doesn’t change my mind one bit, but I do have the utmost respect for my parents, so it weighs on me a bit.
I'm so glad to read this and to me, this was the 'a-ha!' moment of why you constantly associated this as failure if you quit. Please go and change your family tree and congrats!
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.

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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by KyleAAA » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:55 pm

Why wouldn’t you quit in this situation? I’m having trouble figuring out why any rational person would stay.

ronno2018
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by ronno2018 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:13 pm

Wow, what a strange place you work at! Your comments on transferring to a less stressful job are concerning -- a good employer would want to keep great staff and goes out of the way to be accommodating -- I guess it is a small family run establishment? (no need to answer) The pension vesting seems really unfair as well, but I am not familiar with such high compensation industries.

I like the advice given about talking to a financial planner about what amount to set aside for your kids when they are adults. I bet it is a lot less than you think, but an expert could really help.

Quit the job, downsize your house and get your living costs lower. Spend time with your family for a couple years full time and then consult or find a more normal job with a good employer.

You are amazing though, and have accomplished much for your family.

gold99xx
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by gold99xx » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:11 pm

If you have been a good employee, and from the way you make it sound you have been a "model" employee and have 25 years of equity built up, your employers would be very foolish to not allow you to work a reduced schedule(40-50 hours). An employee starting today will have to still be there in 2043 to have as much experience as you. Let that sink in. If they don't let you work a normal schedule after 25 years, let that also sink in.

Regarding health, you are literally nothing without good health. Stress as a cause of death/illness is REAL. You have to take action NOW to make sure you can reverse and manage any damage you may have already caused yourself. Once you reach a tipping point with your health, it is too late.
Let me ask you this, go to the gym tomorrow and see how many dead hang pull-ups you can do, how many pushups you can do, how long it takes you to run a mile, begin there and we can asses. Also DIET, what are your eating habits and what types of food are you eating regularly.

If, god forbid you ever end up needing any type of urgent medical care and you run into a resident in his 15th or 16th hour, you LITERALLY will be better off treating yourself. Let that sink in.

Also, the hours your speak of working are akin to a Navy Seals hell WEEK ( not 4 years). This has simply been proven to be utterly unsustainable, and once you reach your daily point of diminishing returns, you should simply shut down your computer and go home, all the rest is unnecessary.

Lastly, are you SITTING all the time at work? SITTING is the new SMOKING.

I think you know the answer, as you have stated above, and it is not for anyone here to tell you what to do. BUT the health stuff is REAL and should be taken seriously as your LIFE may depend on it. Good Luck and whatever you decide it will work out for the best, I am sure of that!!!

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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by WL2034 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:39 pm

It sounds like you don't need to work ever again if you don't want to. I would do one of two things:

1. If I liked the job and employer and wanted to keep working, I would cut back to 40-50 hour weeks and just say I can't finish the rest of the work. If they fire me, so be it.

2. If I didn't like the job, I would quit.

You are totally financially independent. The decision to retire early is separate, but the FI part should be tremendously liberating! I would definitely feel like life and family are passing me by if I were working the kind of hours you are working.

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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by Factor1 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:29 am

I feel for you. You are in a tough situation. I know you know what the answer is. You need to leave. The question becomes how you do it as well as where you land. Nothing anybody says here is going to give you the answer that you are looking for to support a decision by you to leave. Generally, the's 50's are the time in life that health issues tend to arise or get worse. You say you are already having some health issues. This is not surprising based on what you are putting yourself through. What you need is some time to further think through things. I think your employer needs some time too. You will not like this, but I recommend that you consider looking into taking medical leave under FMLA. You appear very articulate and intelligent. Spend some time researching FMLA on the internet. You will become knowledgeable very quickly. You need to get creative. Be aggressive. Push the envelope. Use FMLA to your benefit. Push the limits if you need to. I am not sure what your own health issues are but you will know your options under FMLA after you have done some research. Use your kid's autism to your benefit. I have a few links below to get you started. One important thing to remember, HR is not your friend. Educate yourself. Develop a plan and then work the plan. Be prepared for everything from HR. Actually, be overprepared. Ask for the full 12 weeks. Document everything. Do everything in writing. You need this leave. It will allow you time. Time is what you need. You have already thought through many of the issues. This time will allow you to figure out where you land. Your benefits will continue under FMLA. The employer will probably use up your leave and vacation days so you will still be getting paid for some time. FMLA requires that your job still be available when and if you return. You need time to think through things with a clear mind that is not hampered by the stresses of work. The bottom line is that your employer is taking advantage of you and you are letting them do it by not pushing back. I know employer's like your employer. They treat their employees like a piece of equipment. Run it 24/7. When it breaks down, toss it aside and replace it with another one. Please realize that you may be stereotyped. Realize that this approach may very well be the beginning of the end of your career at this employer. Realize this may alienate you from your fellow co-workers. This may mean more work and more hours for them. Do not worry about this. In the end, they will admire you for sticking up for yourself. Something they all wanted to do themselves but could not. This leave will buy you some valuable time. Trust me. You will look back on this as the best thing you ever did for you and the ones who love you. As part of this whole process you must do the following. Imagine the worse case scenario regarding the future. It sounds like you have already done this. Next, assume it will happen and determine how you will survive it. You will survive it. You are a survivor. Then, come to an inner-peace with yourself that you and your family could deal with and live through this worse case. After that, anything other than the worse case scenario will feel like and will be success. You and your family are priority number one. Do not worry about your employer and your co-workers. They will do just fine. They will adjust. Believe me, your employer would not think twice about getting rid of you or anyone else if it made business sense or saved them a dollar. Keep us up to date. Good luck.

http://www.navigatingautism.org/fmla.html
https://sescomgt.com/news/view/employee ... 0954429482
https://www.fmlainsights.com/fmla-faq-m ... tic-child/

Johnsson
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by Johnsson » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:40 am

Great thread!

One thing I'd like to add is realated to OPs concerncern about his children.

You are planning to allocate significant funds towards their well-being throught life. I believe that your time at home, focused on helping your children successfully launch (in whatever capacities they are capable) may well be more significant to their long-term well being and success than the money.

I'm glad to here of your plans. GOOD LUCK!!

P.S. Now that you have us all interested, please let us know how it turns out...

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Watty
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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by Watty » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:19 am

RW73 wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:18 pm
..and going to a full physical checkup which I have not done since about early 2015 (kind of anxious about those results).
You may not want to wait to give your notice until you have had the physical. It is very very unlikely but there is a tiny chance that there could be some stress related issue, like a heart problem, that might cause you to go out on disability and you likely have disability coverage through your work.

If you don't have any specific symptoms that might seem far fetched but things like silent heart attacks are more common than most people realize. (I am not a doctor).

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Re: Considering Quitting Job - Seeking Advice. Would you do it?

Post by Lieutenant.Columbo » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:56 pm

gold99xx wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:11 pm
whatever you decide it will work out for the best
deepity
Lt. Columbo: Well, what do you know. Here I am talking with some of the smartest people in the world, and I didn't even notice!

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