If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
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Re: If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
This has been a good conversation with thoughtful replies. I appreciate what everyone has contributed.
One of the underlying reasons I posted this I mentioned in my earlier reply. I've gotten tired of the arrogance and inflated egos from some of the promoted people I interact with. Especially when I see the messes they've created on their way up but yet are not held accountable because they've been tapped for upper management.
It's the usual stuff that happens everywhere. My patience for it just isn't what it used to be.
One of the underlying reasons I posted this I mentioned in my earlier reply. I've gotten tired of the arrogance and inflated egos from some of the promoted people I interact with. Especially when I see the messes they've created on their way up but yet are not held accountable because they've been tapped for upper management.
It's the usual stuff that happens everywhere. My patience for it just isn't what it used to be.
Re: If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
My assumption is that you don't know anything about kryspi kreme donuts. Or ras malai, the Indian sweet cheese balls.FoolMeOnce wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:18 pmThat is an unfounded assumption. If someone likes their job enough to keep working well past FI, that doesn't mean they like nothing else. I like Snickers and Kit-Kat, but will still chose Snickers nearly every time.Starfish wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:15 amYes it is sad, even objectively speaking.mak1277 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:00 am But really, I think most people are unable or unwilling to accept or understand opposing viewpoints. It's not "sad" if someone loves their job and never wants to retire. Nor is it "sad" if someone is excited about early retirement because they don't want to work. It's only sad if someone does something they hate because they're afraid of what other people will think if they stop doing it.
If you really like only one thing in life which happens to be exactly a corporate job, to land exactly on that job given all the random events in the choice of a career is very improbable.
So for sure we like more things, areas etc.
That said, I think the American focus on work defining and dominating one's life is sad. But if someone loves what they do, it doesn't mean they wouldn't love something else, and it is ridiculous to call it objectively sad for them to continue doing something they love.
And you will never know because this is what is available at your supermarket. You did not even heard of something else, so you can't even look for it. But it very possible that you might like them 10 times more and despise Snickers after that. You just on forums and say they are the best sweets invented.
I am not sure how can I be clearer than that.
Re: If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
J295, my story similar but I quit older bc I started Law older (did the military and the working-class thing first and didn’t start college till 30). Successful at a biglaw firm, as was my wife...so we were set before 60 and didn’t hesitate to pull the ripcord.J295 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:09 am With all sincerity, it is so cool when someone has the right fit and really thrives and enjoys their work. I like to call that a vocation. It seems fairly rare.
Personally, I ended up in law by default because back in the day someone who had high academic performance, at least in my world, gravitated towards medicine or law. I don’t like blood. And, as the first family member to ever attend college, I was a bit of a guinea pig.
So, I was a successful lawyer. It was a job, and that was fine because my real vocation was a provider, husband and a father. I would’ve gladly dug ditches to provide for our family
I retired at 53 leaving some pretty peak earning years behind me with no regrets. Since then, I have really hit my stride and my life feels more like a vocation. If someone derives the sense that I have now from their work, I completely get why they would work for a long long time. It just wasn’t the case for me.
Law is genuinely fascinating. Billable hours and so on aren’t
Smectym
Re: If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
Interesting discussion!
I feel the same way.... But I'm not sure yet will bolt the moment I'm truly FI.
I kind of "fell into" a career in high tech/software. Background was engineering but I managed to get a software job at a midsize tech when engineering job market was weak (Y2k).. And as luck would have it that was right into the dot com bubble. I must have some talent I guess as over the years we went through layoff after layoff but I was the one who got picked to lead newly consolidated teams and work with the expanding offshore office and rose to director level by my mid-30s.
But then things kind of stalled. I decided not to apply for a VP job that opened up (didn't want the stress and travel requirements) and watched as lots of folks caught up with me... Guess I became marked as "not executive material" Also realized I was never going to make FAANG money at a midsize no matter how far I rose.
Along the way, my wife - a big city hospital RN on track to make 6 figures - gave it up to be a SAHM....
And you know what? life didn't end. We got by just fine in fact on only a fraction of the massive salaries that get boasted of around here
So fast forward... My wife is back to work, now in K-12. Her salary reset to what she made at 22, but she gets multiple retirement plans and a pension that will lock in after 10 years and provide 25% of our retirement needs or so. I changed jobs and moved to a low stress individual contributor role at a midsize private company with a 30 year history of consistent growth and profitability, a mission I really believe in... This place is VERY stable and I could probably work there as long as I like as long as I dont screw up. But the downside is career progression can be slow.
By my calcs we will probably hit basic minimal FI in 10-12 years. I plan on at least 15 to work until I finish putting the kids through college. But after that I dont know. The numbers say I can call it a day if the market isn’t horrible... but I have learned enough to know I cant predict how I will feel at that point. I (or my wife) may not want the sudden massive downshift from kids and job to nothing... we might want to work a few more years at a reduced pace just to ease the transition. There might be two more great recessions between now and then and we have to work a bit more.
Who knows? I'll figure it out when the time comes...
I feel the same way.... But I'm not sure yet will bolt the moment I'm truly FI.
I kind of "fell into" a career in high tech/software. Background was engineering but I managed to get a software job at a midsize tech when engineering job market was weak (Y2k).. And as luck would have it that was right into the dot com bubble. I must have some talent I guess as over the years we went through layoff after layoff but I was the one who got picked to lead newly consolidated teams and work with the expanding offshore office and rose to director level by my mid-30s.
But then things kind of stalled. I decided not to apply for a VP job that opened up (didn't want the stress and travel requirements) and watched as lots of folks caught up with me... Guess I became marked as "not executive material" Also realized I was never going to make FAANG money at a midsize no matter how far I rose.
Along the way, my wife - a big city hospital RN on track to make 6 figures - gave it up to be a SAHM....
And you know what? life didn't end. We got by just fine in fact on only a fraction of the massive salaries that get boasted of around here
So fast forward... My wife is back to work, now in K-12. Her salary reset to what she made at 22, but she gets multiple retirement plans and a pension that will lock in after 10 years and provide 25% of our retirement needs or so. I changed jobs and moved to a low stress individual contributor role at a midsize private company with a 30 year history of consistent growth and profitability, a mission I really believe in... This place is VERY stable and I could probably work there as long as I like as long as I dont screw up. But the downside is career progression can be slow.
By my calcs we will probably hit basic minimal FI in 10-12 years. I plan on at least 15 to work until I finish putting the kids through college. But after that I dont know. The numbers say I can call it a day if the market isn’t horrible... but I have learned enough to know I cant predict how I will feel at that point. I (or my wife) may not want the sudden massive downshift from kids and job to nothing... we might want to work a few more years at a reduced pace just to ease the transition. There might be two more great recessions between now and then and we have to work a bit more.
Who knows? I'll figure it out when the time comes...
Re: If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
don't mean to hijack the thread, but there are many similarities to something i've been struggling with in my career.
i'm in my early 30s, and i'm at that point in my career where there's a fork in the road:
assuming no raises, 7% CAGR market returns, my current savings rate, i'm on track to be FI in my mid 40s (plus moving to LCOL area). that means, i'm making "enough", that i don't "have to" go to management to make more money. that being said, i was raised in a lower-middle class income family, and if my parents found out how much money i spend on fancy organic groceries they would have a stroke. for my entire life, i've been raised to be ambitious, with money being the top indicator of success, so for me, taking the strong IC track feels like i'm "quitting". but of course, i'm married with kids now, so it's not that simple anymore.
to those who took either side of the fork, how do you feel now? if you could go back, would you change your decision? thanks!
i'm in my early 30s, and i'm at that point in my career where there's a fork in the road:
- take the strong individual contributor track. less stress, more interesting (i like solving problems), more freedom, capped compensation (i'm getting close to the ceiling), more job stability (due to more openings available)
- take the management track. more stress, hours, politics, further away from the ground (skills get dull), however, no ceiling for compensation
assuming no raises, 7% CAGR market returns, my current savings rate, i'm on track to be FI in my mid 40s (plus moving to LCOL area). that means, i'm making "enough", that i don't "have to" go to management to make more money. that being said, i was raised in a lower-middle class income family, and if my parents found out how much money i spend on fancy organic groceries they would have a stroke. for my entire life, i've been raised to be ambitious, with money being the top indicator of success, so for me, taking the strong IC track feels like i'm "quitting". but of course, i'm married with kids now, so it's not that simple anymore.
to those who took either side of the fork, how do you feel now? if you could go back, would you change your decision? thanks!
Re: If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
Similar experiences. My biggest victories aren't around a product or sale but rather keeping real people employed so they can make choices. I work very hard to make sure my folks have the best experience at work I can offer. I fail often because I don't have all the variables at my control, but, more often than not people like working with me and for me. It is always about the people. Always.
Nescio
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Re: If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
Nobody is saying the equivalent of they are the best sweets ever. They are saying I love it and I don't feel like trying that other thing (and everyone knows at least a little about leisure). I don't find that sad. It is a bit self-righteous to claim to know with certainty that everyone else would enjoy something different even more just because you do.Starfish wrote: ↑Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:07 amMy assumption is that you don't know anything about kryspi kreme donuts. Or ras malai, the Indian sweet cheese balls.FoolMeOnce wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:18 pmThat is an unfounded assumption. If someone likes their job enough to keep working well past FI, that doesn't mean they like nothing else. I like Snickers and Kit-Kat, but will still chose Snickers nearly every time.Starfish wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:15 amYes it is sad, even objectively speaking.mak1277 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:00 am But really, I think most people are unable or unwilling to accept or understand opposing viewpoints. It's not "sad" if someone loves their job and never wants to retire. Nor is it "sad" if someone is excited about early retirement because they don't want to work. It's only sad if someone does something they hate because they're afraid of what other people will think if they stop doing it.
If you really like only one thing in life which happens to be exactly a corporate job, to land exactly on that job given all the random events in the choice of a career is very improbable.
So for sure we like more things, areas etc.
That said, I think the American focus on work defining and dominating one's life is sad. But if someone loves what they do, it doesn't mean they wouldn't love something else, and it is ridiculous to call it objectively sad for them to continue doing something they love.
And you will never know because this is what is available at your supermarket. You did not even heard of something else, so you can't even look for it. But it very possible that you might like them 10 times more and despise Snickers after that. You just on forums and say they are the best sweets invented.
I am not sure how can I be clearer than that.
Re: If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
bampf,bampf wrote: ↑Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:16 amSimilar experiences. My biggest victories aren't around a product or sale but rather keeping real people employed so they can make choices. I work very hard to make sure my folks have the best experience at work I can offer. I fail often because I don't have all the variables at my control, but, more often than not people like working with me and for me. It is always about the people. Always.
Many years after our location was shut down, we still help each other looking for a new job whenever we are unemployed. This is the proof of friendship/social network. Someone willing to help you even if they do not hear from you for a while and you needed help.
KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
Re: If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
FoolMeOnce,FoolMeOnce wrote: ↑Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:36 amNobody is saying the equivalent of they are the best sweets ever. They are saying I love it and I don't feel like trying that other thing (and everyone knows at least a little about leisure). I don't find that sad. It is a bit self-righteous to claim to know with certainty that everyone else would enjoy something different even more just because you do.Starfish wrote: ↑Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:07 amMy assumption is that you don't know anything about kryspi kreme donuts. Or ras malai, the Indian sweet cheese balls.FoolMeOnce wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:18 pmThat is an unfounded assumption. If someone likes their job enough to keep working well past FI, that doesn't mean they like nothing else. I like Snickers and Kit-Kat, but will still chose Snickers nearly every time.Starfish wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:15 amYes it is sad, even objectively speaking.mak1277 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:00 am But really, I think most people are unable or unwilling to accept or understand opposing viewpoints. It's not "sad" if someone loves their job and never wants to retire. Nor is it "sad" if someone is excited about early retirement because they don't want to work. It's only sad if someone does something they hate because they're afraid of what other people will think if they stop doing it.
If you really like only one thing in life which happens to be exactly a corporate job, to land exactly on that job given all the random events in the choice of a career is very improbable.
So for sure we like more things, areas etc.
That said, I think the American focus on work defining and dominating one's life is sad. But if someone loves what they do, it doesn't mean they wouldn't love something else, and it is ridiculous to call it objectively sad for them to continue doing something they love.
And you will never know because this is what is available at your supermarket. You did not even heard of something else, so you can't even look for it. But it very possible that you might like them 10 times more and despise Snickers after that. You just on forums and say they are the best sweets invented.
I am not sure how can I be clearer than that.
<< They are saying I love it and I don't feel like trying that other thing >>
Then, it is unknowable whether they will like the new thing if they tried it. That is fine too.
<< It is a bit self-righteous to claim to know with certainty that everyone else would enjoy something different even more just because you do.>>
It is unknown one way or another. So, it is equally self-righteous to believe that someone wants to be FI just because they hate their jobs. It could be that they love something else more. Or, it is time to do something new.
The whole point for FI is it gives a person's option to choose what they want to do with their lives and time. It is free to choose. As what a person may choose, it is their personal choice.
KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
Re: If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
That does indeed sound better than most, but not at all inconsistent with my presumption that it’s a massive prioritization of work. If you reversed it, and thought about someone who primarily spent his or her time hiking, climbing, running and biking, but occasionally made time for some work—a couple of hours a week and one big two-week stretch every year!—would you consider that could even possibly make for a “meaningful” career?SQRT wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:56 am Well, I guess it depends on the person and where he works. There is no doubt that holding down a responsible full time job or career will take up a lot of energy. Probably the majority of personal energy ,or close to it, for most people. I agree it will often shape one’s identity. Certainly did for me. However, for many people there can be a fair bit of personal energy left for family, travel,outside interests,etc. In short “a life”.
I remember my boss (CEO)telling us(senior exec team) once that he expected us to have “lives outside work”. Looking around that table I saw people who ran the Boston Marathon, took bike and hiking trips all over the world, climbed Mt Kilimanjaro. Most were married with children and gave significant time to charitable organizations. Every year we would build a Habitat for Humanity house as a group.
I agree this is probably not common or representative of most businesses or careers. Just pointing out it can happen. I was very lucky and I know it. In this way and many others.
We’re not all born to lives of leisure, I certainly get that, but the continued devotion to work past the point of having “enough,” nearly always comes at incredible cost of texture and depth in life, in my opinion, and the objections by reference to the exceptions (akin to “but I climbed Kilimanjaro!”) generally suggest to me just how narrow our typical perspectives are. I’m not trying to criticize anyone’s choices, just offering my view that much of the discussion takes place in a narrowed context that generally goes unexamined.
Re: If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
Hadn't seen that before, thank you.TheNightsToCome wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:02 pm
Here is a sobering (interactive) graph of the relative risk of running out of money versus running out of life (see the "wedge of death" in the link below). I need to revisit this data frequently to maintain the proper perspective.
http://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/
Like good comrades to the utmost of their strength, we shall go on to the end. -- Winston Churchill
Re: If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
"Die Broke" doesn't say that. It basically says to work for the rest of your life but to pick something you like to do. That's a very contrarian point of view. In my opinion, the point of saving for retirement is that you eventually age to the point where you can't work. At that point, you need the accumulated wealth to live comfortably. Whether I'm financially independent or not depends on where I set the bar on "comfortably".StealthRabbit wrote: ↑Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:32 pm getting close to FI...
REDUCE your time and energy commitment to your company
Consider reading the Cliff Notes for "Die Broke"
Basically,(2) coworkers did this during their last 2 yrs, and this made work much more tolerable / enjoyable. (for them and for bosses (Who didn't have a clue these 2 were planning their exit)
- Reduce your emotional and time commitment to employer. (But do your job)
Establish your other skills / priorities
Plan (as in be ready) for your transition
Do it on your own terms
"ENJOY" your final years
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Re: If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
Gave myself the handle of "workerbee" about 2 & half years ago when I joined BHs at same time I had just voluntarily taken myself off the management track at work. Had a couple of personnel issues to deal with that ripped my guts out. Told my Vice President I could not do it anymore. She was OK with that, but I knew full well this decision was irrevocable and irreversible. I was able to transfer back to the operating area in which I had spent the majority of my time at the company, working now as an individual contributor. Not exactly at FI, but getting closer every day. The work is satisfying, so in no rush to pull the plug now that the strain of management is behind me. If they take me out with a halfway decent severance, that would also not be the end of the world.
Re: If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
We have to agree to disagree, the underlined part is very sad from my perspective.FoolMeOnce wrote: ↑Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:36 amNobody is saying the equivalent of they are the best sweets ever. They are saying I love it and I don't feel like trying that other thing (and everyone knows at least a little about leisure). I don't find that sad. It is a bit self-righteous to claim to know with certainty that everyone else would enjoy something different even more just because you do.Starfish wrote: ↑Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:07 am
My assumption is that you don't know anything about kryspi kreme donuts. Or ras malai, the Indian sweet cheese balls.
And you will never know because this is what is available at your supermarket. You did not even heard of something else, so you can't even look for it. But it very possible that you might like them 10 times more and despise Snickers after that. You just on forums and say they are the best sweets invented.
I am not sure how can I be clearer than that.
I am not sure what is self righteous in stating the obvious: everyone would find something better in an infinity of choices compared to the single one they have now.
And no, I wasn't talking about leisure.
I specifically included myself in this category because even my life is constructed around employment and I have major uncertainties about life outside it.
Last edited by Starfish on Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
Interesting posts.
In some ways I'm definitely a type A person. I can be very impatient, want things done yesterday, don't like mistakes, etc. I've worked in and out of the government and have done well. However, from nearly the start, I realized time is my most valuable asset and I'm not willing to give up my personal time in exchange for more money, power, fame, whatever. So I've never been one to work 50+ hr weeks unless the time was going to be returned to me.
I work in an office where there is a guy in his 80s still working. His wife died a while ago. I guess work is all he has left. To me that is sad but maybe it isn't, not really for me to say w/o being in his shoes.
In my case it has never been about money. Money either gets up possessions or freedom and I prefer the latter. If my pension wouldn't take a 30% hit, I'd retire this year, or if I was married/dating someone with similar assets to me, I'd still take the hit and retire and enjoy life. I'm pretty happy just doing stuff on my computer, enjoying sports, and limited traveling.
I keep running the numbers to see what I would be comfortable with and when I could retire. I'm 55 now and probably should work until 60 although it won't be working at this job.
Even if I could afford it, my biggest concern at early retirement would be health insurance since one medical issue could wipe out a huge amount of savings that probably could never be recovered.
In some ways I'm definitely a type A person. I can be very impatient, want things done yesterday, don't like mistakes, etc. I've worked in and out of the government and have done well. However, from nearly the start, I realized time is my most valuable asset and I'm not willing to give up my personal time in exchange for more money, power, fame, whatever. So I've never been one to work 50+ hr weeks unless the time was going to be returned to me.
I work in an office where there is a guy in his 80s still working. His wife died a while ago. I guess work is all he has left. To me that is sad but maybe it isn't, not really for me to say w/o being in his shoes.
In my case it has never been about money. Money either gets up possessions or freedom and I prefer the latter. If my pension wouldn't take a 30% hit, I'd retire this year, or if I was married/dating someone with similar assets to me, I'd still take the hit and retire and enjoy life. I'm pretty happy just doing stuff on my computer, enjoying sports, and limited traveling.
I keep running the numbers to see what I would be comfortable with and when I could retire. I'm 55 now and probably should work until 60 although it won't be working at this job.
Even if I could afford it, my biggest concern at early retirement would be health insurance since one medical issue could wipe out a huge amount of savings that probably could never be recovered.
----------------------------- |
If you think something is important and it doesn't involve the health of someone, think again. Life goes too fast, enjoy it and be nice.
Re: If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
This is a great question and really helps to know there are others like me. My first/main career I climbed the retail ladder to middle/high management. Let me assure you, this was no fun. I sacrificed a lot to let mom stay home and be with the kids until they were old enough to go to school. We lived frugally, saved, paid off debts and invested. We became reasonably financially independent, and I took a job as a maintenance guy at a local college. As long as I stay and grind it out, the kids get free schooling. All this to say, I had zero desire to climb the corporate ladder once we were financially independent.
Re: If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
You are projecting your preferences and values onto everyone. If someone is happy (genuinely, truly happy) with their job and they don't have a desire to pursue other activities, then there's not a thing wrong with that. "Doing something new and interesting" doesn't have to be everyone's goal.Starfish wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:15 amAnd you managed to contradict yourself in consecutive sentences.mak1277 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:00 am But really, I think most people are unable or unwilling to accept or understand opposing viewpoints. It's not "sad" if someone loves their job and never wants to retire. Nor is it "sad" if someone is excited about early retirement because they don't want to work. It's only sad if someone does something they hate because they're afraid of what other people will think if they stop doing it.
Yes it is sad, even objectively speaking.
If you really like only one thing in life which happens to be exactly a corporate job, to land exactly on that job given all the random events in the choice of a career is very improbable.
So for sure we like more things, areas etc. The problem is that we won't ever find out.
Not knowing simple things about ourselves because we did not see the "outside world" is sad.
FI should be an opportunity to do something new and interesting in life, not continue the same thing.
Re: If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
One thing I've learned in my ladder-climbing management job is that everyone is different. Some people enjoy mastering one thing and reaping the benefits of that mastery. Other people like to climb the steep part of the learning curve, then move on to something different. It's not sad, it's people being different and making their own choices.mak1277 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:58 amYou are projecting your preferences and values onto everyone. If someone is happy (genuinely, truly happy) with their job and they don't have a desire to pursue other activities, then there's not a thing wrong with that. "Doing something new and interesting" doesn't have to be everyone's goal.Starfish wrote: ↑Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:15 amAnd you managed to contradict yourself in consecutive sentences.mak1277 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:00 am But really, I think most people are unable or unwilling to accept or understand opposing viewpoints. It's not "sad" if someone loves their job and never wants to retire. Nor is it "sad" if someone is excited about early retirement because they don't want to work. It's only sad if someone does something they hate because they're afraid of what other people will think if they stop doing it.
Yes it is sad, even objectively speaking.
If you really like only one thing in life which happens to be exactly a corporate job, to land exactly on that job given all the random events in the choice of a career is very improbable.
So for sure we like more things, areas etc. The problem is that we won't ever find out.
Not knowing simple things about ourselves because we did not see the "outside world" is sad.
FI should be an opportunity to do something new and interesting in life, not continue the same thing.
Re: If you're FI, or close to FI, are still fighting to climb the Corp. Ladder?
Very interesting thread. With three kids still at home and college looming, I’m not sure we are ready to say we are FI. That said, most calculators I have run say that, at 45, we are probably 1 year away and extremely fortunate.
But to do it, we’ve moved several times, I’ve not seen my extended family much in the last decade and I’ve lost most real friend relationships. I have little outside work but my immediate family. I think part of that is the job and part of that is the fact that our kids are at the ages where we have decided to make them the center of our activity while we can.
It’s also very lonely at the top. As the division president for a private megacorp, you don’t really have friends at work. Personal relationship are there, but superficial. I took this role at 39. It was all I ever wanted from a career point.
But now what. The money itself was never the motivator. For me the money has just always been the way to keep score. We don’t spend nearly at the rate we could. It is just the scoreboard. My satisfaction has always been in conquering what I thought might be difficult if not impossible.
So a year ago, knowing I had gotten largely where I wanted to be, and knowing at some point very soon I would be FIRE, I switched my goals and my style to not be about myself, but to be about others. I went to a very good executive program at the CLC, and it changed my thinking.
Now, when I think of what I want to be remembered for, it’s not the guy who made the C suite essentially before 40, or drove the crazy car, or whatever. I want people to say “I used to work for this great guy who taught me a lot and made me a better leader.” Ive focused very hard on people development and have changed my style. I’ve also been much bolder in making decision that are absolutely the right things to do, but could easily get me fired if we don’t execute them well. It’s empowerimg and energizing.
At the same time, I am being courted for CEO roles for private and PE companies. Part of me doesn’t want to deal with that hassle, but a big part of me sees it as a huge challenge to undertake. And if I did it for 5 years, FIRE would be FIREX2. So we’ll see.
But to do it, we’ve moved several times, I’ve not seen my extended family much in the last decade and I’ve lost most real friend relationships. I have little outside work but my immediate family. I think part of that is the job and part of that is the fact that our kids are at the ages where we have decided to make them the center of our activity while we can.
It’s also very lonely at the top. As the division president for a private megacorp, you don’t really have friends at work. Personal relationship are there, but superficial. I took this role at 39. It was all I ever wanted from a career point.
But now what. The money itself was never the motivator. For me the money has just always been the way to keep score. We don’t spend nearly at the rate we could. It is just the scoreboard. My satisfaction has always been in conquering what I thought might be difficult if not impossible.
So a year ago, knowing I had gotten largely where I wanted to be, and knowing at some point very soon I would be FIRE, I switched my goals and my style to not be about myself, but to be about others. I went to a very good executive program at the CLC, and it changed my thinking.
Now, when I think of what I want to be remembered for, it’s not the guy who made the C suite essentially before 40, or drove the crazy car, or whatever. I want people to say “I used to work for this great guy who taught me a lot and made me a better leader.” Ive focused very hard on people development and have changed my style. I’ve also been much bolder in making decision that are absolutely the right things to do, but could easily get me fired if we don’t execute them well. It’s empowerimg and energizing.
At the same time, I am being courted for CEO roles for private and PE companies. Part of me doesn’t want to deal with that hassle, but a big part of me sees it as a huge challenge to undertake. And if I did it for 5 years, FIRE would be FIREX2. So we’ll see.