First time Salary Negotiations

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HardHitter
Posts: 473
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:41 pm

First time Salary Negotiations

Post by HardHitter » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:55 am

So I've been at the same employer for 10 years and I am in the process of receiving offers from multiple candidates. Current salary is a simple base + year-end bonus.

From the sounds of it, the companies salary structure is a base salary + year-end bonus + a % of driven sales and because of that, I am expecting offers with lower base salaries.

My target salary to make the move is anything greater than $200K from a base salary perspective. At the moment, I have a base salary of $170K with a estimated annual pay bump to $180-$185K.

In the likelihood that the base salary offer is the same range as what I am expecting with the current job ($170-$185K) would you still consider the job?
A part of me wants the "guaranteed" $200K+ base salary and then anything else (year-end bonus + % sales bonus) are just drivers to continuing selling.
When negotiating salary, do you just flat out say the number you want or do you go in slightly higher allowing you some negotiation room? E.g. If I am happy with $200, go in at $210. What is the key communication when negotiating and how does it typically play out? How do you respectfully decline if you can't come to agreement in numbers and how many back and forths usually happen during the negotiations?

Thegame14
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 11:53 am

Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by Thegame14 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:13 am

IT is tricky, these employers are nuts, the still think it is an employer's market which it hasn't been for about 4-5 years.... I have asked for 110K and had a company recently come back and say we cant go more than 100K, which is stupid because they only think about salary. I get insurance for my family from my wife's company for $25 a month so I would turn down 99% of any new jobs health insurance, so a candidate who would take 100K plus their insurance, will cost them around $120-125K per year, vs me who would be $110K no insurance, but they don't think like that....

If you say a number to low, they will stick to that number and you will lose out, if you shoot for a number too high, they will pass on you.

RickBoglehead
Posts: 958
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:10 am

Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by RickBoglehead » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:24 am

You're looking at it totally wrong IMO. What matters is the PACKAGE, not one component of the package.

Salary
Annual bonus
Long Term bonus / incentive
Benefits - vacation, 401K match, medical benefits and costs, ....
Company values (actual vs. stated)
Stress level of position (is company C paying less but much less stressful)?

For example, if they offered you the same salary of $170,00, but upped your vacation by a week from 3 weeks to 4 weeks, what's that worth financially? I'd say $170,000/52 = $3,270, close to a 2% bump.

For many things, I look for specialized sites/forums to assist me. A simple Google search will yield how to negotiate a job offer, how to compare offers, etc. from very reputable sources. Here's one: https://hbr.org/2015/03/setting-the-rec ... our-salary

In addition to checking that the source of the information is good, make sure it applies to you. How a doctor negotiates his/her compensation has nothing to do with how you do. It also matters where you are on the totem pole, what type of company you're going to (small, medium, large), how many people at your job level, etc.

Example:

When I changed one specific job, I got a 27% pay increase not included bonus potential. Despite that large increase, I continued to negotiate my package. I got 6 months severance, full relocation package, an extra week's vacation (off books, but put in the offer letter), and more. When I was in the job, the company had some upheaval. They were worried that I would take a quick exit, so they asked me what it would take to get me to stay. I didn't answer, so the President upped my incentive to buy a house significantly (money paid out at closing).

Good luck.

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lthenderson
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Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by lthenderson » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:37 am

Whenever I negotiated for salary, I always told them exactly what I wanted. If they said they couldn't match it, I would ask them for more vacation time, more flexible hours, etc to make up for the loss in wages. I have found that companies are much more flexible in the benefits than they are the salary which is often set by those not doing the hiring.

jayk238
Posts: 445
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Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by jayk238 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:14 am

HardHitter wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:55 am
So I've been at the same employer for 10 years and I am in the process of receiving offers from multiple candidates. Current salary is a simple base + year-end bonus.

From the sounds of it, the companies salary structure is a base salary + year-end bonus + a % of driven sales and because of that, I am expecting offers with lower base salaries.

My target salary to make the move is anything greater than $200K from a base salary perspective. At the moment, I have a base salary of $170K with a estimated annual pay bump to $180-$185K.

In the likelihood that the base salary offer is the same range as what I am expecting with the current job ($170-$185K) would you still consider the job?
A part of me wants the "guaranteed" $200K+ base salary and then anything else (year-end bonus + % sales bonus) are just drivers to continuing selling.
When negotiating salary, do you just flat out say the number you want or do you go in slightly higher allowing you some negotiation room? E.g. If I am happy with $200, go in at $210. What is the key communication when negotiating and how does it typically play out? How do you respectfully decline if you can't come to agreement in numbers and how many back and forths usually happen during the negotiations?
what do you do in IT? What degrees do you have? What kinds of employers are you looking at- tech industry, broad industry, etc.
What kinds of competition are you facing (ie can it be offshored? Is it automated in the near future? Do you do a lot of problem solving that requires years of hands on experience? Do you have deep technical skills- computer science engineering, math ability etc? )

Hard to say what you can and cant ask for without this info

Novajen
Posts: 8
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Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by Novajen » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:17 am

Definitely look at the full picture, not just the salary. Real-life example, I was looking to switch companies last summer, got an offer from company #1 for a 17% increase, but vacation/sick all together was 2 weeks - company policy, no wiggle room at all. Company #2 offered a 19% increase, I got the same 4 weeks vacation as my prior company plus 8 days sick leave.

Many other factors such as company reputation and work/life balance (small kids at home), but make sure you investigate thoroughly before deciding. Also, once I had the offer from company #1, I went to company #2 and said I've got an offer from #1 for X, and #2 promptly offered me 2% more. And if they're public companies (I'm in banking), you can usually find the employee handbook online and fully educate yourself on all benefits. So I also knew about the pension plan, how much they matched on 401k, etc.

HardHitter
Posts: 473
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Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by HardHitter » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:09 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:24 am
You're looking at it totally wrong IMO. What matters is the PACKAGE, not one component of the package.

Salary
Annual bonus
Long Term bonus / incentive
Benefits - vacation, 401K match, medical benefits and costs, ....
Company values (actual vs. stated)
Stress level of position (is company C paying less but much less stressful)?

For example, if they offered you the same salary of $170,00, but upped your vacation by a week from 3 weeks to 4 weeks, what's that worth financially? I'd say $170,000/52 = $3,270, close to a 2% bump.

For many things, I look for specialized sites/forums to assist me. A simple Google search will yield how to negotiate a job offer, how to compare offers, etc. from very reputable sources. Here's one: https://hbr.org/2015/03/setting-the-rec ... our-salary

In addition to checking that the source of the information is good, make sure it applies to you. How a doctor negotiates his/her compensation has nothing to do with how you do. It also matters where you are on the totem pole, what type of company you're going to (small, medium, large), how many people at your job level, etc.

Example:

When I changed one specific job, I got a 27% pay increase not included bonus potential. Despite that large increase, I continued to negotiate my package. I got 6 months severance, full relocation package, an extra week's vacation (off books, but put in the offer letter), and more. When I was in the job, the company had some upheaval. They were worried that I would take a quick exit, so they asked me what it would take to get me to stay. I didn't answer, so the President upped my incentive to buy a house significantly (money paid out at closing).

Good luck.
I am looking at the whole package. The reason why I didn't mention the other items (PTO/Benefits/401K matching/etc.) is because I asked during the interview process. It is comparable to what I have with current employer. The benefit I have is that these would be remote positions but current commute is only 15 minutes.

In your example, if I kept the $170K, but they added on an additional 3-4 weeks, to me, I wouldn't value it because I never really take vacation with the current position. It is work, but it isn't to a point where I actually need to take some time off to prevent from burning out.

I'll obviously ask to review their benefits in detail with the offer, but the only difference between the employers is going from a large company to a smaller company where I can make a difference vs "just being a number" in a large company.

HardHitter
Posts: 473
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Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by HardHitter » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:16 am

jayk238 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:14 am
HardHitter wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:55 am
So I've been at the same employer for 10 years and I am in the process of receiving offers from multiple candidates. Current salary is a simple base + year-end bonus.

From the sounds of it, the companies salary structure is a base salary + year-end bonus + a % of driven sales and because of that, I am expecting offers with lower base salaries.

My target salary to make the move is anything greater than $200K from a base salary perspective. At the moment, I have a base salary of $170K with a estimated annual pay bump to $180-$185K.

In the likelihood that the base salary offer is the same range as what I am expecting with the current job ($170-$185K) would you still consider the job?
A part of me wants the "guaranteed" $200K+ base salary and then anything else (year-end bonus + % sales bonus) are just drivers to continuing selling.
When negotiating salary, do you just flat out say the number you want or do you go in slightly higher allowing you some negotiation room? E.g. If I am happy with $200, go in at $210. What is the key communication when negotiating and how does it typically play out? How do you respectfully decline if you can't come to agreement in numbers and how many back and forths usually happen during the negotiations?
what do you do in IT? What degrees do you have? What kinds of employers are you looking at- tech industry, broad industry, etc.
What kinds of competition are you facing (ie can it be offshored? Is it automated in the near future? Do you do a lot of problem solving that requires years of hands on experience? Do you have deep technical skills- computer science engineering, math ability etc? )

Hard to say what you can and cant ask for without this info
I have an information systems degree and the technical skills to execute the day to day operations, but in my future role, they want me to develop and grow the practice. So instead of performing the technical analysis, my value and what they are paying for is my network/connections/current clientele which I'd bring over.

TheOscarGuy
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Location: Where I wanna be.

Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by TheOscarGuy » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:16 pm

HardHitter wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:55 am

When negotiating salary, do you just flat out say the number you want or do you go in slightly higher allowing you some negotiation room? E.g. If I am happy with $200, go in at $210. What is the key communication when negotiating and how does it typically play out? How do you respectfully decline if you can't come to agreement in numbers and how many back and forths usually happen during the negotiations?
There is an article on kalzumeus.com on software engineer salary negotiation that I have found very useful in my last several negotiations. Long, but definitely worth the read.
I have in the past always let them come with a number, never spelled out what I wanted first, and when asked on comparison gave a detailed comparison on benefits as well as the actual salary numbers, to do a fair comparison. For instance, one company had a better health plan than the other, I showed them in my excel sheet, how much better. I heard from HH and the HR of the company that hired me that this impressed them, and needless to say they gave me what I wanted (which was not unreasonable).
I have hard 5-6 back and forth happen on each of the past couple of companies. On each occasion I was in a good place negotiation-wise and was willing to walk away, and I told them so. This is a business decision, and you have to know that the person on the other end is definitely treating it as such, even if you aren't.

ge1
Posts: 362
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Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by ge1 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:55 pm

In order to negotiate from a position of strength, you have to a) know the facts and b) be willing to act on them.

As an example, I worked for the same employer many years and even though initially well paid, increases over time were minimal (due to the bad economy etc) and I fell further and further behind. It came to a point a couple of years ago, where I told my boss very clearly what my expectations are both for YE bonus and salary increase. Shortly afterwards, I was contacted by a recruiter with a much better overall package (total comp up 60%). I gave the old company a chance and told them if the would pay me ABC I may consider staying. And surprise, surprise, all of a sudden those numbers were not an issue anymore. I ended up leaving anyway, but it showed me what companies are willing to pay if you have leverage.

These days when recruiters call me I am very clear what my expectations are in terms of comp, which I usually frame in expected total comp and which should exceed my current total comp by at least 20-25%, otherwise why change (unless there is some other compelling reason such as shorter commute etc). As others said, salary is important but managers are often restricted what they can do in terms of salary whereas they can be more creative with other components.

good luck

BogleInTraining
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Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:15 pm

Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by BogleInTraining » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:25 pm

HardHitter wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:16 am
I have an information systems degree and the technical skills to execute the day to day operations, but in my future role, they want me to develop and grow the practice. So instead of performing the technical analysis, my value and what they are paying for is my network/connections/current clientele which I'd bring over.
Sorry but if you're not already at that level of development (I'm a senior engineer at a public tech company), then you aren't getting close to 200k base salary.

DJP1944
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:12 pm

Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by DJP1944 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:29 pm

I think you have a lot of good advice in this thread.

The one thing that I would add though (if it's not too late) is your opening attitude. My recommendation would be to have a posture with the new org like "I have a good thing going now (I'm not unhappy) and my company and I have a long track record. In order to move I'd need to see significant (not nominal) improvement over my current situation". In other words, lower base with slightly higher upside wouldn't cut it for me.

I'd go for higher base and higher upside.

HardHitter
Posts: 473
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:41 pm

Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by HardHitter » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:46 pm

TheOscarGuy wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:16 pm
HardHitter wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:55 am

When negotiating salary, do you just flat out say the number you want or do you go in slightly higher allowing you some negotiation room? E.g. If I am happy with $200, go in at $210. What is the key communication when negotiating and how does it typically play out? How do you respectfully decline if you can't come to agreement in numbers and how many back and forths usually happen during the negotiations?
There is an article on kalzumeus.com on software engineer salary negotiation that I have found very useful in my last several negotiations. Long, but definitely worth the read.
I have in the past always let them come with a number, never spelled out what I wanted first, and when asked on comparison gave a detailed comparison on benefits as well as the actual salary numbers, to do a fair comparison. For instance, one company had a better health plan than the other, I showed them in my excel sheet, how much better. I heard from HH and the HR of the company that hired me that this impressed them, and needless to say they gave me what I wanted (which was not unreasonable).
I have hard 5-6 back and forth happen on each of the past couple of companies. On each occasion I was in a good place negotiation-wise and was willing to walk away, and I told them so. This is a business decision, and you have to know that the person on the other end is definitely treating it as such, even if you aren't.
In regards to the business decision, it truthfully is. People are assets to a company and they want to get the best return on investment. If I can portray the potential revenue and business growth I can bring with my network and clientele, they will put a # on that in what makes sense from a investment standpoint.

The good thing is that these opportunities came to me based upon the company already knowing who I am. I don't need to leave my current employer and they know this so it really is about making sure I am a match with their go-forward vision and obviously that it makes financial sense for me and my family.

HardHitter
Posts: 473
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:41 pm

Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by HardHitter » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:48 pm

BogleInTraining wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:25 pm
HardHitter wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:16 am
I have an information systems degree and the technical skills to execute the day to day operations, but in my future role, they want me to develop and grow the practice. So instead of performing the technical analysis, my value and what they are paying for is my network/connections/current clientele which I'd bring over.
Sorry but if you're not already at that level of development (I'm a senior engineer at a public tech company), then you aren't getting close to 200k base salary.
Could you clarify not already at that level of development? What level of development are you referring to?

HardHitter
Posts: 473
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Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by HardHitter » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:51 pm

DJP1944 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:29 pm
I think you have a lot of good advice in this thread.

The one thing that I would add though (if it's not too late) is your opening attitude. My recommendation would be to have a posture with the new org like "I have a good thing going now (I'm not unhappy) and my company and I have a long track record. In order to move I'd need to see significant (not nominal) improvement over my current situation". In other words, lower base with slightly higher upside wouldn't cut it for me.

I'd go for higher base and higher upside.
As I mentioned in one of my latest responses, that is the situation I am in. These companies reached out to me directly asking if I'd be interested in having a "talk" and that is what we've been doing the last couple of months. I'm learning more about the company, what their vision is short and long term, why should people work for their company, what would be their expectations for me and what do they define success as, etc.

DJP1944
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:12 pm

Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by DJP1944 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:16 pm

HardHitter wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:51 pm
DJP1944 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:29 pm
I think you have a lot of good advice in this thread.

The one thing that I would add though (if it's not too late) is your opening attitude. My recommendation would be to have a posture with the new org like "I have a good thing going now (I'm not unhappy) and my company and I have a long track record. In order to move I'd need to see significant (not nominal) improvement over my current situation". In other words, lower base with slightly higher upside wouldn't cut it for me.

I'd go for higher base and higher upside.
As I mentioned in one of my latest responses, that is the situation I am in. These companies reached out to me directly asking if I'd be interested in having a "talk" and that is what we've been doing the last couple of months. I'm learning more about the company, what their vision is short and long term, why should people work for their company, what would be their expectations for me and what do they define success as, etc.
Sorry, I should have read more thoroughly. Are there profits interests, equity, partnership, or other potential upside opportunities? I don't think I read about any of that in your posts but I could have missed.

HardHitter
Posts: 473
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:41 pm

Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by HardHitter » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:21 pm

DJP1944 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:16 pm
HardHitter wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:51 pm
DJP1944 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:29 pm
I think you have a lot of good advice in this thread.

The one thing that I would add though (if it's not too late) is your opening attitude. My recommendation would be to have a posture with the new org like "I have a good thing going now (I'm not unhappy) and my company and I have a long track record. In order to move I'd need to see significant (not nominal) improvement over my current situation". In other words, lower base with slightly higher upside wouldn't cut it for me.

I'd go for higher base and higher upside.
As I mentioned in one of my latest responses, that is the situation I am in. These companies reached out to me directly asking if I'd be interested in having a "talk" and that is what we've been doing the last couple of months. I'm learning more about the company, what their vision is short and long term, why should people work for their company, what would be their expectations for me and what do they define success as, etc.
Sorry, I should have read more thoroughly. Are there profits interests, equity, partnership, or other potential upside opportunities? I don't think I read about any of that in your posts but I could have missed.
Yes, that is one of the big upsides for these positions. One offers a annual payout based upon the revenue generated for the year with your book of business (I don't know what % is yet), the other offers a partnership (partners split profits not reinvested)

HardHitter
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Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by HardHitter » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:19 am

Opening this conversation up again now with a new question:

I have two opportunities. Opportunity 1 I have gone through and completed all the interviews. I have a final meeting with them in which I believe it'll be a open discussion about what my expectations are compensation wise to see if we can come to an agreement.

Opportunity 2 is for a higher position than opportunity 1, so by assumption, will have a significantly higher starting base salary. The only problem is I haven't interviewed with the hiring manager yet as they are working on logistics to fly me in to meet with the hiring manager.

Both opportunities are similar but I am more inclined to see if I would be considered for opportunity 2 but opportunity 1 offer is likely going to come before I even meet with the hiring manager at opportunity 2. If that were to happen, what do I do? I don't know how long I am going to have until they want me to start but I'm guessing I'd have to verbally accept an offer within a week of it being offered.

Jags4186
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Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by Jags4186 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:12 am

Do not do as some above have suggested and value vacation 1:1 with salary. If you are in a sales job the likelihood of you taking 4,5,6 weeks vacation is very low unless you are blowing your numbers out. Sure that can happen some times, but other times you’ll need to slog through.

Look at the sales incentive very closely, and see how achievable it is, and what it is tied to. I learned the hard way this past year that the sales incentive is very easily wiped out/overridden by overall company performance.

simas
Posts: 287
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by simas » Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:59 pm

HardHitter wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:16 am

I have an information systems degree and the technical skills to execute the day to day operations, but in my future role, they want me to develop and grow the practice. So instead of performing the technical analysis, my value and what they are paying for is my network/connections/current clientele which I'd bring over.
see bolded part - are you currently doing 'development' (aka Sales)? if not, you are comparing completely different jobs if you are moving from operational opportunity to working as solution delivery (in whatever term it would be called) organization.

This is discussed at length here under term of 'consulting' - know that in consulting a lot of things you assume as given may absolutely not be there
- your commute , that is driven by where the current client on the current project is. if it across the major metro area now and the client wants to be meeting with you at 8 am sharp, guess what, do it or else
- things like dress code/culture ,etc. if client requires suites, you will wear suits, whether you want it or not
- stability. how long do you think consulting company would pay you from the bench (without an active project they can bill you to)?
- work hours, effort, and unreasonable demands. if client said they want to see presentation on the plan by EOD, it means EOD, not the "we will try to get to it next week, may be"

there are many upsides to it as well (you do not get as bored, you get to see many different things and move on, you have to deal with office politics differently), of which the most important upside is the comp one , if I were to agree to run a practice I would want to negotiate percentages of revenue, projects, etc in advance and base salary would matter much less. I would also run away fast form any 'opportunity' that wants for me to run consulting pratice at 10-15% over the industry pay.


Are you sure you understand what you are getting into?

simas
Posts: 287
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by simas » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:03 pm

HardHitter wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:19 am

Both opportunities are similar but I am more inclined to see if I would be considered for opportunity 2 but opportunity 1 offer is likely going to come before I even meet with the hiring manager at opportunity 2. If that were to happen, what do I do? I don't know how long I am going to have until they want me to start but I'm guessing I'd have to verbally accept an offer within a week of it being offered.
1. This board has plenty of threads with people really worrying about what they will do when they would get an offer. :happy - forgetting that first they have to get an actual offer. Get it first then worry about it, as it is not in any way guaranteed

2. If you like the offer enough, take it

3. if you dont, or not sure, pass it.

you are not the only person alive (they can find other candidates and very easily) , they are not the only company either, not the end of the world
get to an offer (first and required step), then review/negotiate/act.

KlangFool
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by KlangFool » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:09 pm

HardHitter wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:55 am
So I've been at the same employer for 10 years and I am in the process of receiving offers from multiple candidates. Current salary is a simple base + year-end bonus.

From the sounds of it, the companies salary structure is a base salary + year-end bonus + a % of driven sales and because of that, I am expecting offers with lower base salaries.

My target salary to make the move is anything greater than $200K from a base salary perspective. At the moment, I have a base salary of $170K with a estimated annual pay bump to $180-$185K.

In the likelihood that the base salary offer is the same range as what I am expecting with the current job ($170-$185K) would you still consider the job?
A part of me wants the "guaranteed" $200K+ base salary and then anything else (year-end bonus + % sales bonus) are just drivers to continuing selling.
When negotiating salary, do you just flat out say the number you want or do you go in slightly higher allowing you some negotiation room? E.g. If I am happy with $200, go in at $210. What is the key communication when negotiating and how does it typically play out? How do you respectfully decline if you can't come to agreement in numbers and how many back and forths usually happen during the negotiations?
HardHitter,

Please check out below URL.

https://www.asktheheadhunter.com/faqsalary1.htm

<<When negotiating salary, do you just flat out say the number you want or do you go in slightly higher allowing you some negotiation room?>>

When negotiating salary, whoever gives out the first number loses. Ditto on any kind of negotiation.

KlangFool

HardHitter
Posts: 473
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:41 pm

Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by HardHitter » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:41 am

simas wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:59 pm
HardHitter wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:16 am

I have an information systems degree and the technical skills to execute the day to day operations, but in my future role, they want me to develop and grow the practice. So instead of performing the technical analysis, my value and what they are paying for is my network/connections/current clientele which I'd bring over.
see bolded part - are you currently doing 'development' (aka Sales)? if not, you are comparing completely different jobs if you are moving from operational opportunity to working as solution delivery (in whatever term it would be called) organization.

This is discussed at length here under term of 'consulting' - know that in consulting a lot of things you assume as given may absolutely not be there
- your commute , that is driven by where the current client on the current project is. if it across the major metro area now and the client wants to be meeting with you at 8 am sharp, guess what, do it or else
- things like dress code/culture ,etc. if client requires suites, you will wear suits, whether you want it or not
- stability. how long do you think consulting company would pay you from the bench (without an active project they can bill you to)?
- work hours, effort, and unreasonable demands. if client said they want to see presentation on the plan by EOD, it means EOD, not the "we will try to get to it next week, may be"

there are many upsides to it as well (you do not get as bored, you get to see many different things and move on, you have to deal with office politics differently), of which the most important upside is the comp one , if I were to agree to run a practice I would want to negotiate percentages of revenue, projects, etc in advance and base salary would matter much less. I would also run away fast form any 'opportunity' that wants for me to run consulting pratice at 10-15% over the industry pay.


Are you sure you understand what you are getting into?
Yes I am already doing sales. That is one of the requirements and what they are asking is how much revenue can I generate. My role is two fold. Develop a team to execute the day-to-day operations with the clients I bring in and then go out and win more work. Rinse and repeat. That is my primary role, but of course I am involved with many other roles (recruiting, career management for employees, etc.)

What you have explained as consulting is no surprise. I'm already doing all of that. Dress to your client, visit the client when needed, etc. The one thing is unreasonable demands. Sure there are going to be those requests, but those who succeed is managing the expectations of your clients and being transparent in regards to the effort behind their request. If you're just going to be a "yes man" you're not going to have a team wanting to work for you when you put them in quick turn around situations all the time.

I'm unclear on your last statement about running away.

InvestorThom
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:10 pm

Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by InvestorThom » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:03 pm

Soon after taking the new job you will find out some idiot makes more than you.

There is always more money regardless of what they tell you. The question is, do they like/want you enough to offer more?

It is correct that you should consider the whole package or “total rewards.” HOWEVER, base salary IS important since it is usually the foundation of annual increases and bonus pay.

An example of the compounding effect over five years with annual 3% increases and 25% bonus payout:

$185,000 $46,250
$190,550 $47,637
$196,266 $49,066
$202,154 $50,538
$208,219 $52,054
$982,189 $245,545

$200,000 $50,000
$206,000 $51,500
$212,180 $53,045
$218,545 $54,636
$225,101 $56,275
$1,061,826 $265,456

$79,637 + $19,911 = $99,548

The point is, model out the scenarios and look at more than one year — YMMV since your annual incentive may be based on revenue targets vs base pay.

You should expect a 10-15% bump in base to get you to jump to the next company.

And yes, commute times, intellectual stimulation, impact on career, quality of peer group and affiliation to the company are also important factors.

It all goes back to what your goals really are. Right them down. They will be very helpful in making a decision like this.

simas
Posts: 287
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by simas » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:06 am

HardHitter wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:41 am

Yes I am already doing sales. That is one of the requirements and what they are asking is how much revenue can I generate. My role is two fold. Develop a team to execute the day-to-day operations with the clients I bring in and then go out and win more work. Rinse and repeat. That is my primary role, but of course I am involved with many other roles (recruiting, career management for employees, etc.)

What you have explained as consulting is no surprise. I'm already doing all of that. Dress to your client, visit the client when needed, etc. The one thing is unreasonable demands. Sure there are going to be those requests, but those who succeed is managing the expectations of your clients and being transparent in regards to the effort behind their request. If you're just going to be a "yes man" you're not going to have a team wanting to work for you when you put them in quick turn around situations all the time.

I'm unclear on your last statement about running away.
good, if you are already doing similar roles and knowing what you are walking into - you should be ok.
how did your negotiations with them end?

HardHitter
Posts: 473
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:41 pm

Re: First time Salary Negotiations

Post by HardHitter » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:30 am

simas wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:06 am
HardHitter wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:41 am

Yes I am already doing sales. That is one of the requirements and what they are asking is how much revenue can I generate. My role is two fold. Develop a team to execute the day-to-day operations with the clients I bring in and then go out and win more work. Rinse and repeat. That is my primary role, but of course I am involved with many other roles (recruiting, career management for employees, etc.)

What you have explained as consulting is no surprise. I'm already doing all of that. Dress to your client, visit the client when needed, etc. The one thing is unreasonable demands. Sure there are going to be those requests, but those who succeed is managing the expectations of your clients and being transparent in regards to the effort behind their request. If you're just going to be a "yes man" you're not going to have a team wanting to work for you when you put them in quick turn around situations all the time.

I'm unclear on your last statement about running away.
good, if you are already doing similar roles and knowing what you are walking into - you should be ok.
how did your negotiations with them end?
Currently in progress.
Company 1 meeting pending for this week. No formal offer but have completed interview process and they've expressed they want to move forward with me. Meeting is likely going to be the general question of "what will it take for you to move?" I know it will be open dialogue and informal as meeting is direct with CEO.
Company 2 I am being flown in next week to meet with the CEO. No formal offer and I haven't completed the interview process, so this likely will determine if they are interested in me or not.
Company 3 (current company) I receive compensation increase and bonus numbers this week.

In all, the timing worked out. I'll know my new salary/bonus numbers with my current company and assuming I receive formal offers from either Company 1 or 2, I can do a fair comparison.

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