How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

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damjam
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by damjam »

JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:11 am
damjam wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:03 am I'm doing it old school. Mostly because I'm worried about security around my financial accounts.

I use an old copy of Quicken to track my everyday bank accounts and CCs. I don't download transactions but enter them by typing them in myself. Why? I don't want to give my passwords to another entity. (Quicken needs your login info to automatically download transactions).

I track my brokerage accounts using a couple of spreadsheets I made up. I use specific id for my taxable accounts and track that as well. Tracking tax sheltered accounts is simpler. I aggregate the info from separate spreadsheets to a master spreadsheet for tracking and rebalancing the whole portfolio.

Is this a bit of work? Of course, but I'm simply not comfortable using some aggregation application that would require my login info.

Despite all of this, I do use LastPass for my password manager. Which is contradictory to my general stance on computer security (which is: keep as much info as possible under my direct control and don't trust an outside provider to keep my stuff secure). But it's a concession I made when I got an iPhone (didn't want to manually sync password files between computer and phone using Keepass), since I want to be able to get to my bank account and CC info when away from my desk.

Edit to add: To echo other posters. I also keep it as simple as possible with basically a Three-fund portfolio.
Why don't you just log into the websites and manually download the transactions?
Good question. I've been doing it this way for so long didn't realize I could.
In some ways I'm a bit of a luddite.
So thanks for the heads up.
flyingaway
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by flyingaway »

Once every month, usually at the end of the month, I collect all data from all accounts and add them together using a calculator in a few categories and record them. I have been doing this since 2006 (less frequently then), so I know my portfolio progress. I only do this when I am at home. If I am travelling during the end of the month, I will do the data collection after I come home.
JBTX
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by JBTX »

damjam wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:17 am
JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:11 am
damjam wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:03 am I'm doing it old school. Mostly because I'm worried about security around my financial accounts.

I use an old copy of Quicken to track my everyday bank accounts and CCs. I don't download transactions but enter them by typing them in myself. Why? I don't want to give my passwords to another entity. (Quicken needs your login info to automatically download transactions).

I track my brokerage accounts using a couple of spreadsheets I made up. I use specific id for my taxable accounts and track that as well. Tracking tax sheltered accounts is simpler. I aggregate the info from separate spreadsheets to a master spreadsheet for tracking and rebalancing the whole portfolio.

Is this a bit of work? Of course, but I'm simply not comfortable using some aggregation application that would require my login info.

Despite all of this, I do use LastPass for my password manager. Which is contradictory to my general stance on computer security (which is: keep as much info as possible under my direct control and don't trust an outside provider to keep my stuff secure). But it's a concession I made when I got an iPhone (didn't want to manually sync password files between computer and phone using Keepass), since I want to be able to get to my bank account and CC info when away from my desk.

Edit to add: To echo other posters. I also keep it as simple as possible with basically a Three-fund portfolio.
Why don't you just log into the websites and manually download the transactions?
Good question. I've been doing it this way for so long didn't realize I could.
In some ways I'm a bit of a luddite.
So thanks for the heads up.
As to the risks of storing passwords on quicken servers, obviously the risk is greater than zero. But I figure the greatest risk is with your investment and bank accounts. With credit cards, while you may have a major hassle, ultimately you have protection (and alerts would hopefully tip you off faster). Only only use a couple of investment companies, and both require 2FA, so even armed with ID and PW they still would need a way to get around the 2FA. Nothing is impossible, but at this point we are talking about a pretty remote risk.
KlangFool
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by KlangFool »

bikechuck wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:10 am
KlangFool wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:08 am Hulk,

I have one brokerage account and one bank.

<<Would love to simplify but not so easy>>

It is easier than dealing with multiple accounts. Consolidate...

KlangFool
Too risky for me in this age of cyber attacks and occasional systems failures.
bikechuck,

1) I work in the IT/Network for 30+ years. I assume that the system will fail. By the way, please do not assume that having multiple accounts will be more reliable. I would rather rely on Fidelity, Vanguard, and one large bank. My backup plan would be cold hard cash and gold jewelry.

<<Too risky for me in this age of cyber attacks and occasional systems failures.>>

2) A better plan would be to assume that someone will steal your login and what harm that they can do to you. I pre-plan ahead of time and include multiple safeguards to detect the break-in when it happened. And, when they had stolen my login, they cannot get the money out easily. It is harder to do that with multiple accounts.

KlangFool
letsgobobby
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by letsgobobby »

Deleted
Last edited by letsgobobby on Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KlangFool
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by KlangFool »

JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:28 am
damjam wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:17 am
JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:11 am
damjam wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:03 am I'm doing it old school. Mostly because I'm worried about security around my financial accounts.

I use an old copy of Quicken to track my everyday bank accounts and CCs. I don't download transactions but enter them by typing them in myself. Why? I don't want to give my passwords to another entity. (Quicken needs your login info to automatically download transactions).

I track my brokerage accounts using a couple of spreadsheets I made up. I use specific id for my taxable accounts and track that as well. Tracking tax sheltered accounts is simpler. I aggregate the info from separate spreadsheets to a master spreadsheet for tracking and rebalancing the whole portfolio.

Is this a bit of work? Of course, but I'm simply not comfortable using some aggregation application that would require my login info.

Despite all of this, I do use LastPass for my password manager. Which is contradictory to my general stance on computer security (which is: keep as much info as possible under my direct control and don't trust an outside provider to keep my stuff secure). But it's a concession I made when I got an iPhone (didn't want to manually sync password files between computer and phone using Keepass), since I want to be able to get to my bank account and CC info when away from my desk.

Edit to add: To echo other posters. I also keep it as simple as possible with basically a Three-fund portfolio.
Why don't you just log into the websites and manually download the transactions?
Good question. I've been doing it this way for so long didn't realize I could.
In some ways I'm a bit of a luddite.
So thanks for the heads up.
As to the risks of storing passwords on quicken servers, obviously the risk is greater than zero. But I figure the greatest risk is with your investment and bank accounts. With credit cards, while you may have a major hassle, ultimately you have protection (and alerts would hopefully tip you off faster). Only only use a couple of investment companies, and both require 2FA, so even armed with ID and PW they still would need a way to get around the 2FA. Nothing is impossible, but at this point we are talking about a pretty remote risk.
JBTX,

From the research and study that I read, the greatest risks are from the non-financial institutions that have our financial information. It is easier to steal and we are less likely to be protected. That is why I do not allow the pull payment from my checking account.

KlangFool
dcdowden
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by dcdowden »

I used Quicken for many years, but have now stopped using it because of frequent problems with update and Quicken fees.

I now use Full View at Fidelity and Personal Capital to monitor our two Fidelity IRA's, our two Vanguard trust accounts, our two checking accounts and a Brightstart 529. I transfer the summary info to a Net Worth spreadsheet (Excel now, but originally just a paper ledger) that we have maintained since we got married over 40 years ago. Occasionally, the linked account updates to Fido or PC produce some weird glitches in the data, so the Excel spreadsheet is my best long term accurate record.

Both Fido and PC have good analysis tools that work across your entire portfolio, so I use that to monitor Asset Allocation and such.
They both also have good retirement planning tools that are Monte Carlo based which I use as well.
We meet with our Fidelity Private Client Adviser once a year where he goes over all this with us. It is a good opportunity for my wife to review our overall financial situation and know that she would have a resource to turn to in case I was no longer able to manage our investments. She is extremely capable, but not particularly interested in investment management, so an annual review seems appropriate.

My wife manages all our expenses (ie., pays the bills, makes charitable contributions, etc.) and she used to use Quicken for tracking that, but has given up using Quicken as well. I am now using Personal Capital to track our expenses, since it is linked to our bank and credit card accounts and generally does a good job of categorizing expenses. It is easy to edit individual items when needed. I do download all transactions to an Excel spreadsheet to produce my own summary of expenses periodically. I have seen PC lose a link to an account for awhile, which can cause missing transactions, so downloading the info is a good backup as well.

I had tried using Mint for awhile, but it seemed to have more trouble staying linked with accounts, so I dropped that.
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damjam
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by damjam »

JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:28 am .
.
.

As to the risks of storing passwords on quicken servers, obviously the risk is greater than zero. But I figure the greatest risk is with your investment and bank accounts. With credit cards, while you may have a major hassle, ultimately you have protection (and alerts would hopefully tip you off faster). Only only use a couple of investment companies, and both require 2FA, so even armed with ID and PW they still would need a way to get around the 2FA. Nothing is impossible, but at this point we are talking about a pretty remote risk.
I'm having trouble parsing what you are saying.
So are you saying that storing passwords on Quicken servers is worth the risk?
If you have 2FA engaged on your financial accounts how would Quicken be able to log in to aggregate?
diy60
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by diy60 »

Spreadsheet. Spouse and I have a total of 11 accounts spread across 6 financial institutions, and this is after retiring and consolidating. :happy

I log into 3 of the 6 custodians and use their "download" feature to download a CSV file. The other 3 aren't worth my time due to the small fraction they represent. I programmed VBA macros to pull the data over from the downloaded files and create different pivot tables and toggle between views in my spreadsheet. VBA was new for me, so I had a learning curve to overcome, took me a few hours a day over 3 or 4 months to develop the spreadsheet. Now it takes me under 5 minutes to update my holdings, without any manual entries whatsoever.
JBTX
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by JBTX »

KlangFool wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:48 am
JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:28 am
damjam wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:17 am
JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:11 am
damjam wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:03 am I'm doing it old school. Mostly because I'm worried about security around my financial accounts.

I use an old copy of Quicken to track my everyday bank accounts and CCs. I don't download transactions but enter them by typing them in myself. Why? I don't want to give my passwords to another entity. (Quicken needs your login info to automatically download transactions).

I track my brokerage accounts using a couple of spreadsheets I made up. I use specific id for my taxable accounts and track that as well. Tracking tax sheltered accounts is simpler. I aggregate the info from separate spreadsheets to a master spreadsheet for tracking and rebalancing the whole portfolio.

Is this a bit of work? Of course, but I'm simply not comfortable using some aggregation application that would require my login info.

Despite all of this, I do use LastPass for my password manager. Which is contradictory to my general stance on computer security (which is: keep as much info as possible under my direct control and don't trust an outside provider to keep my stuff secure). But it's a concession I made when I got an iPhone (didn't want to manually sync password files between computer and phone using Keepass), since I want to be able to get to my bank account and CC info when away from my desk.

Edit to add: To echo other posters. I also keep it as simple as possible with basically a Three-fund portfolio.
Why don't you just log into the websites and manually download the transactions?
Good question. I've been doing it this way for so long didn't realize I could.
In some ways I'm a bit of a luddite.
So thanks for the heads up.
As to the risks of storing passwords on quicken servers, obviously the risk is greater than zero. But I figure the greatest risk is with your investment and bank accounts. With credit cards, while you may have a major hassle, ultimately you have protection (and alerts would hopefully tip you off faster). Only only use a couple of investment companies, and both require 2FA, so even armed with ID and PW they still would need a way to get around the 2FA. Nothing is impossible, but at this point we are talking about a pretty remote risk.
JBTX,

From the research and study that I read, the greatest risks are from the non-financial institutions that have our financial information. It is easier to steal and we are less likely to be protected. That is why I do not allow the pull payment from my checking account.

KlangFool
Perhaps. I have used auto draft for most of 3 decades and never had a problem. I have not heard of many instances of theft due to compromised auto draft. Seems to me it would be much easier to just take the bank information off of a check copy.

Giving up autodraft would be a huge PITA for me. If I really worried about it I would probably lower the balances in the applicable bank accounts.
KlangFool
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by KlangFool »

JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:57 am
Perhaps. I have used auto draft for most of 3 decades and never had a problem. I have not heard of many instances of theft due to compromised auto draft. Seems to me it would be much easier to just take the bank information off of a check copy.

Giving up autodraft would be a huge PITA for me. If I really worried about it I would probably lower the balances in the applicable bank accounts.
JBTX.

<<Seems to me it would be much easier to just take the bank information off of a check copy. >>

1) It is easier to get caught. And, how many accounts that they can hit at the same time?

https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-hacke ... om-target/

2) Remember Target.

KlangFool
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jhfenton
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by jhfenton »

latesaver wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:59 am WHat do you use to get live quotes in excel? Is this an excel file on your drive or on a google drive? as i life long excel user i can't get used to google docs...
I use the SMF Add-in for Excel. You can download the add-in and a sample spreadsheet at that link to the author's Blogspot page.

It is also discussed in this Boglehead thread. That link is specifically to a post where I explain how I use it in my spreadsheet and give code snippets for a work-around to the problem of refreshing the data.

I used a GoogleSheets work-around for prices for about a day in between Yahoo removing their web APIs and finding SMF. I used GoogleFinance to pull quotes into a GoogleSheets document, and then pulled them from that document into Excel. It worked, but Google was really late at updating mutual fund prices (i.e. after I went to bed). Yahoo usually updates mutual fund prices around 6 PM. Yahoo also includes .IV tickers and Bid/Ask numbers, which SMF can pull in and which I use for my intraday portfolio estimates worksheet. (Based on which our portfolio is currently estimated to be down about 7 bp on the day.)
JBTX
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by JBTX »

KlangFool wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:07 pm
JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:57 am
Perhaps. I have used auto draft for most of 3 decades and never had a problem. I have not heard of many instances of theft due to compromised auto draft. Seems to me it would be much easier to just take the bank information off of a check copy.

Giving up autodraft would be a huge PITA for me. If I really worried about it I would probably lower the balances in the applicable bank accounts.
JBTX.

<<Seems to me it would be much easier to just take the bank information off of a check copy. >>

1) It is easier to get caught. And, how many accounts that they can hit at the same time?

https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-hacke ... om-target/

2) Remember Target.

KlangFool
Well to clarify, I rarely set up a autopay from a bank account at a non financial institution. I always use credit cards. I think there is one case where I have a utility that bank drafts off because they don't take credit cards. That may be worth re-thinking that one.
dcabler
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by dcabler »

jhfenton wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:13 pm
latesaver wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:59 am WHat do you use to get live quotes in excel? Is this an excel file on your drive or on a google drive? as i life long excel user i can't get used to google docs...
I use the SMF Add-in for Excel. You can download the add-in and a sample spreadsheet at that link to the author's Blogspot page.

It is also discussed in this Boglehead thread. That link is specifically to a post where I explain how I use it in my spreadsheet and give code snippets for a work-around to the problem of refreshing the data.

I used a GoogleSheets work-around for prices for about a day in between Yahoo removing their web APIs and finding SMF. I used GoogleFinance to pull quotes into a GoogleSheets document, and then pulled them from that document into Excel. It worked, but Google was really late at updating mutual fund prices (i.e. after I went to bed). Yahoo usually updates mutual fund prices around 6 PM. Yahoo also includes .IV tickers and Bid/Ask numbers, which SMF can pull in and which I use for my intraday portfolio estimates worksheet. (Based on which our portfolio is currently estimated to be down about 7 bp on the day.)
+1 Here - I'm another user of the SMF add-in...
KlangFool
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by KlangFool »

JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:23 pm
KlangFool wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:07 pm
JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:57 am
Perhaps. I have used auto draft for most of 3 decades and never had a problem. I have not heard of many instances of theft due to compromised auto draft. Seems to me it would be much easier to just take the bank information off of a check copy.

Giving up autodraft would be a huge PITA for me. If I really worried about it I would probably lower the balances in the applicable bank accounts.
JBTX.

<<Seems to me it would be much easier to just take the bank information off of a check copy. >>

1) It is easier to get caught. And, how many accounts that they can hit at the same time?

https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-hacke ... om-target/

2) Remember Target.

KlangFool
Well to clarify, I rarely set up a autopay from a bank account at a non financial institution. I always use credit cards. I think there is one case where I have a utility that bank drafts off because they don't take credit cards. That may be worth re-thinking that one.
JBTX,

A) I prepaid my utility with the extra amount by push payment every month. The bill will show up with a negative balance as an acknowledgment of my payment. If the bank's bill payment failed, I will know immediately when the utility's bill shows up. I have another 30 days to solve the problem.

B) I prepaid my credit card every month with the amount to satisfy the minimum balance. Then, when the credit card statement shows up via my email, I paid the rest. Once, the email failed and credit card statement did not show up and I missed the payment. So, I improve the system to avoid that.

C) My system is fully automated. If I do nothing for a few months, all my bills will still be paid.

KlangFool
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RickBoglehead
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by RickBoglehead »

I have used Quicken for over 20 years. I do NOT upload my portfolio to them, I do download balances. I plan on updating balances manually in the future versus subscribing to their new annual model whenever I am forced to do so.

I consolidated nearly everything from Fidelity to Vanguard. I collapsed a dozen different IRA accounts per person to one once I had finished ROTH conversions.

Every Saturday morning I true up everything, usually takes 15 - 30 minutes, once a month it takes an hour or so because I setup next month's transfers to cover bills. In addition to Vanguard and now a small account at Fidelity (due to a employer retirement account still being there), I also have Ally as my main bank and a local bank for cash deposits and a business account. Cap One accounts with $1 in them, left after Ally consistently beat their rates.

Every account that can be paid via credit card is.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
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sleepysurf
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by sleepysurf »

I've used Quicken for over 20 yrs, but now rely on Personal Capital for a more accurate snapshot of my true asset allocation spanning 14+ accounts (including Checking, CC's, and various Credit Union accounts with CD's). Unlike Quicken (and Vanguard's archaic Portfolio Watch), PC subdivides Mutual Funds and ETF's into their respective M* 9-box asset classes. I'm fine with their security features, included 2FA, and daily email summary of ALL transactions (see... https://www.personalcapital.com/financi ... e/security)

I'm more concerned with the likelihood that PC will throttle back their FREE software tools for non-clients, as they've recently hinted.
Retired 2018 | ~50/45/5 (partially sliced and diced)
JBTX
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by JBTX »

KlangFool wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:30 pm
JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:23 pm
KlangFool wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:07 pm
JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:57 am
Perhaps. I have used auto draft for most of 3 decades and never had a problem. I have not heard of many instances of theft due to compromised auto draft. Seems to me it would be much easier to just take the bank information off of a check copy.

Giving up autodraft would be a huge PITA for me. If I really worried about it I would probably lower the balances in the applicable bank accounts.
JBTX.

<<Seems to me it would be much easier to just take the bank information off of a check copy. >>

1) It is easier to get caught. And, how many accounts that they can hit at the same time?

https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-hacke ... om-target/

2) Remember Target.

KlangFool
Well to clarify, I rarely set up a autopay from a bank account at a non financial institution. I always use credit cards. I think there is one case where I have a utility that bank drafts off because they don't take credit cards. That may be worth re-thinking that one.
JBTX,

A) I prepaid my utility with the extra amount by push payment every month. The bill will show up with a negative balance as an acknowledgment of my payment. If the bank's bill payment failed, I will know immediately when the utility's bill shows up. I have another 30 days to solve the problem.

B) I prepaid my credit card every month with the amount to satisfy the minimum balance. Then, when the credit card statement shows up via my email, I paid the rest. Once, the email failed and credit card statement did not show up and I missed the payment. So, I improve the system to avoid that.

C) My system is fully automated. If I do nothing for a few months, all my bills will still be paid.

KlangFool
COuld you accomplish the same thing with ebill autopay?
KlangFool
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by KlangFool »

JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:48 pm
KlangFool wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:30 pm
JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:23 pm
KlangFool wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:07 pm
JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:57 am
Perhaps. I have used auto draft for most of 3 decades and never had a problem. I have not heard of many instances of theft due to compromised auto draft. Seems to me it would be much easier to just take the bank information off of a check copy.

Giving up autodraft would be a huge PITA for me. If I really worried about it I would probably lower the balances in the applicable bank accounts.
JBTX.

<<Seems to me it would be much easier to just take the bank information off of a check copy. >>

1) It is easier to get caught. And, how many accounts that they can hit at the same time?

https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-hacke ... om-target/

2) Remember Target.

KlangFool
Well to clarify, I rarely set up a autopay from a bank account at a non financial institution. I always use credit cards. I think there is one case where I have a utility that bank drafts off because they don't take credit cards. That may be worth re-thinking that one.
JBTX,

A) I prepaid my utility with the extra amount by push payment every month. The bill will show up with a negative balance as an acknowledgment of my payment. If the bank's bill payment failed, I will know immediately when the utility's bill shows up. I have another 30 days to solve the problem.

B) I prepaid my credit card every month with the amount to satisfy the minimum balance. Then, when the credit card statement shows up via my email, I paid the rest. Once, the email failed and credit card statement did not show up and I missed the payment. So, I improve the system to avoid that.

C) My system is fully automated. If I do nothing for a few months, all my bills will still be paid.

KlangFool
COuld you accomplish the same thing with ebill autopay?
JBTX,

So, if the utility messed up and billed me for 10K, I will have to chase the money back plus paying for the all the checks bounced at the same time. I do not give signed blank check to anyone. Why should you?

I worked at IT/Network for too long. I assumed that all system will fail.

KlangFool
inbox788
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by inbox788 »

How many accounts are you talking about? The best way to organize multiple accounts is to REDUCE the number of accounts. I'm constantly trying to eliminate unnecessary or low utility accounts, but like weeds, there seem to be more and more. I've tried to concentrate the main accounts into a handful of long term holds and don't bother dealing with them regularly. Other lesser accounts I've frozen if I'm unable to eliminate it. I've got a couple of brokerage accounts that were active, but now only hold one remaining stock that I can't seem to get rid of for tax reasons, but it sits there inactive, so no organization needed. I've tried some of the data aggregators for finance and other accounts, but they don't work well (requiring constant maintenance) and I worry about security risk and vulnerability. I've gotten to the point where the majority of my concern is in a 3 fund portfolio, so I don't bother tracking it other than checking the AA once in a while (and I've got wide rebalancing bands). I just look at the SP500 and I can pretty much see how my portfolio is doing, more or less, and that's good enough for me.
frugalmama
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by frugalmama »

I agree that you don't have to be a 7 figure guy to have this problem :).

I log in once a month and record the transactions and rebalance as the balances get outside my margin. I record them in YNAB...but it is the old school version, not the cloud version.
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Artful Dodger
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by Artful Dodger »

Up until a month ago, if you had asked this question, I would have given Fidelity's Fullview a hearty recommendation. They just upgraded, and I haven't been able to relink all my accounts. I think the final product will have more functionality than the previous, but time will tell.

By having all the accounts showing on a Fullview home page, I was able to see my net worth any day, plus have the past 12 months to view so I could see steady progress. All the accounts would link to my Fidelity Analysis tool, so I could see my asset allocation across all holdings, and drill down into the separate accounts and asset categories. Fidelity's retirement planner would also pull data from all accounts to give me a complete retirement forecast using all my data.

My guess is that one reason it worked so well was most of my investments were with Fidelity, but I have three smaller accounts with TDAmeritrade, two with my Health Equity HSA, and four NWML policies, and they were integrated into the report, with few issues.
Stormbringer
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by Stormbringer »

I am currently using Quicken 2017, but I am soon going to apply two-factor authentication to all my accounts, so I'm not sure how well the one-click update will work with that. I'm really opposed to Quicken storing my credentials on their servers, so I avoid using the Web Connect functionality. I prefer the Direct Connect.
"Compound interest is the most powerful force in the universe." - Albert Einstein
JBTX
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by JBTX »

KlangFool wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:53 pm
JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:48 pm
KlangFool wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:30 pm
JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:23 pm
KlangFool wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:07 pm

JBTX.

<<Seems to me it would be much easier to just take the bank information off of a check copy. >>

1) It is easier to get caught. And, how many accounts that they can hit at the same time?

https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-hacke ... om-target/

2) Remember Target.

KlangFool
Well to clarify, I rarely set up a autopay from a bank account at a non financial institution. I always use credit cards. I think there is one case where I have a utility that bank drafts off because they don't take credit cards. That may be worth re-thinking that one.
JBTX,

A) I prepaid my utility with the extra amount by push payment every month. The bill will show up with a negative balance as an acknowledgment of my payment. If the bank's bill payment failed, I will know immediately when the utility's bill shows up. I have another 30 days to solve the problem.

B) I prepaid my credit card every month with the amount to satisfy the minimum balance. Then, when the credit card statement shows up via my email, I paid the rest. Once, the email failed and credit card statement did not show up and I missed the payment. So, I improve the system to avoid that.

C) My system is fully automated. If I do nothing for a few months, all my bills will still be paid.

KlangFool
COuld you accomplish the same thing with ebill autopay?
JBTX,

So, if the utility messed up and billed me for 10K, I will have to chase the money back plus paying for the all the checks bounced at the same time. I do not give signed blank check to anyone. Why should you?

I worked at IT/Network for too long. I assumed that all system will fail.

KlangFool
I can't recall this ever happening. I can't recall an autodraft ever being wrong in 20+ years. And if it did I wouldn't think it would be difficult to correct. It isn't like I'm auto drafting Joe's biker bar and draft house.
KlangFool
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by KlangFool »

JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:17 pm
KlangFool wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:53 pm
JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:48 pm
KlangFool wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:30 pm
JBTX wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:23 pm

Well to clarify, I rarely set up a autopay from a bank account at a non financial institution. I always use credit cards. I think there is one case where I have a utility that bank drafts off because they don't take credit cards. That may be worth re-thinking that one.
JBTX,

A) I prepaid my utility with the extra amount by push payment every month. The bill will show up with a negative balance as an acknowledgment of my payment. If the bank's bill payment failed, I will know immediately when the utility's bill shows up. I have another 30 days to solve the problem.

B) I prepaid my credit card every month with the amount to satisfy the minimum balance. Then, when the credit card statement shows up via my email, I paid the rest. Once, the email failed and credit card statement did not show up and I missed the payment. So, I improve the system to avoid that.

C) My system is fully automated. If I do nothing for a few months, all my bills will still be paid.

KlangFool
COuld you accomplish the same thing with ebill autopay?
JBTX,

So, if the utility messed up and billed me for 10K, I will have to chase the money back plus paying for the all the checks bounced at the same time. I do not give signed blank check to anyone. Why should you?

I worked at IT/Network for too long. I assumed that all system will fail.

KlangFool
I can't recall this ever happening. I can't recall an autodraft ever being wrong in 20+ years. And if it did I wouldn't think it would be difficult to correct. It isn't like I'm auto drafting Joe's biker bar and draft house.
JBTX,

<<And if it did I wouldn't think it would be difficult to correct. >>

How would you know? I had read enough horror story about debit card causing checks to bounce. Prevention is better than cure.

<< I can't recall an autodraft ever being wrong in 20+ years. >>

You might be lucky so far.

KlangFool
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damjam
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by damjam »

Stormbringer wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:13 pm I am currently using Quicken 2017, but I am soon going to apply two-factor authentication to all my accounts, so I'm not sure how well the one-click update will work with that. I'm really opposed to Quicken storing my credentials on their servers, so I avoid using the Web Connect functionality. I prefer the Direct Connect.
I'm curious if Quicken one-click update works with 2FA.

Does anyone know?
Skierajs
Posts: 26
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by Skierajs »

My accounts and funds don't change ever really, just the amounts over time through gains / losses and contributions, but Personal Capital is useful for having one place to log in and see the values of all the holdings. So, I have a spreadsheet with all my accounts and funds categorized by asset class, which tracks my allocation, then every 1-3 months (probably more than necessary), I log into PC and copy and paste the balances into the spreadsheet to see if I need to make any changes.
JBTX
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by JBTX »

damjam wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:24 pm
Stormbringer wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:13 pm I am currently using Quicken 2017, but I am soon going to apply two-factor authentication to all my accounts, so I'm not sure how well the one-click update will work with that. I'm really opposed to Quicken storing my credentials on their servers, so I avoid using the Web Connect functionality. I prefer the Direct Connect.
I'm curious if Quicken one-click update works with 2FA.

Does anyone know?
For fidelity and vanguard it seems to bypass it. For some.accounts like chase you have to enter 2fa but typically only when. Setting up online services.
NotSoWiseGuy
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:33 pm

Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by NotSoWiseGuy »

damjam wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:24 pm
Stormbringer wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:13 pm I am currently using Quicken 2017, but I am soon going to apply two-factor authentication to all my accounts, so I'm not sure how well the one-click update will work with that. I'm really opposed to Quicken storing my credentials on their servers, so I avoid using the Web Connect functionality. I prefer the Direct Connect.
I'm curious if Quicken one-click update works with 2FA.

Does anyone know?
Yes, it does. I have enabled 2FA for my Vanguard account (among others), and the download works fine. My guess is that Quicken works directly with the financial institutions to make it work. 2FA is only applicable for website/app logins and not to the Quickens and SigFigs of the world (that probably use web services/APIs to get the data).
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Toons
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by Toons »

Quicken








:mrgreen:
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by Doom&Gloom »

RetireBy55 wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:05 am Fund Manager (Windows-based vs. being a cloud solution with all the security implications that has) is a great solution for Portfolio Management, no matter how many accounts you have at how many brokerages or fund companies. And a good password manager to make logging in to multiple accounts less painful.

Fund Manager can connect directly to brokerages, fund companies, etc if I remember right. I don't use that feature as I have an inherent distrust of putting all my account passwords in any one place (including Yodlee-based services like at Fido) so actually enter all transactions manually in FM and check share balances often in every account.

FM blows Quicken out of the water and works the way you expect software to work (quick, simple, clean). I keep hoping the guy who wrote FM would make a Quicken killer. Q* just continues to be a bloated, overpriced and frustrating piece of software with no good alternatives (and I've looked at most of them).
+1 on Fund Manager. But I do use it to download transactions and reconcile accounts as well as to download current prices. The only drawback is that it isn't free, but in the bigger scheme of things it is a solid value (to me) for all it can do to simplify my record-keeping.

Two accounts at Fidelity, one at Schwab, and one at Vanguard. Notifications set to email and/or text me for any transactions. KeePass takes the anxiety out of password management.
fposte
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by fposte »

soccerrules wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:06 am I keep track in 2 places-- on a spreadsheet and then our Vanguard account.

. . . For the other "outside" accounts I have added them to our Vanguard Account under the "Other Accounts" -- you can indicate retirement/non-retirement.
Same here. For my institutional flavors of funds that don't have a ticker symbol, I just manually update to the equivalent share numbers when funds are added.

I've got some pre-Boglehead stuff and work limitations on where tax-advantaged accounts live, so I can't go anywhere near all-Vanguard now, but one of my motivations for rollovers in retirement is to simplify. Ideally, I'll die with a 3-fund portfolio in a Roth account with a little cash on the side :-).
Nowizard
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by Nowizard »

Not sure it takes a seven figure account to be spread out, but it has not been an issue for us to take our three accounts of a CU, Dodge and Cox and Vanguard and aggregate the individual funds, cash and/or stocks on a site with a password. If someone hacked the site, I'm not sure how that would affect the accounts to a greater degree than if someone hacked the accounts where cash or funds are held.

Tim
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bogleblitz
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by bogleblitz »

I use both mint and personal capital

mint for bank accounts, credit cards, mortgage, etc.
Personal Capital for investment and 401k only.

At one time, I managed it all in Mint. But then my total networth was going up and down 10k a day due to stock market. I wasn't sure if someone was stealing 10k from my checking account. Now my mint account balance is more stable from week to week since it doesn't contain investments.
NJdad6
Posts: 276
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by NJdad6 »

edge wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:43 am I use a spreadsheet.
+1. Track multiple 401k, stocks, IRA, etc with a standard customized spreadsheet. Includes historical data and projected growth rates. Works for me. I like having different accounts so that no company has a complete picture.
greenwood
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:16 pm

Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by greenwood »

I previously used Mint because I liked the fact that I could track home equity, car value, etc, there. In the last year that has changed:

1. I Started using YNAB to actively track spending, not just pay vague attention to the Mint categories.
2. I was never happy with the number of services that Mint was advertising to me based on their profile of me, so I decided to remove any accounts from Mint that were in YNAB.
3. Once I did that, I realized that Mint wasn't providing very much to me at all. Personal Capital is a much better aggregator for investment accounts, and neither home or car value, nor mortgage balance, is something that I need to be looking at every time I log in to see what I'm spending on groceries.

So now I have YNAB aggregating my spending accounts, Personal Capital aggregating my investment accounts, and I'm just not worrying about the other components of our net worth. I like that I haven't willingly given any single company has a full picture of my finances, and the only ads I'm being served are for Personal Capital advisory services.

I use a spreadsheet that I update manually to check our AA against targets. This is enough of a hassle that it's not tempting to obsess over small variances. We have 2 current 401k custodians, one former, and our 4 total IRAs with vanguard are cross-linked so a single login can see all of the balances. Even if I want to update the spreadsheet from the provider website and not Personal Capital, it's not a crazy amount of work—just enough.
inbox788
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by inbox788 »

Hulk wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:01 amI attempt a 4 fund portfolio across 5 brokerage companies and 3 banks. Would love to simplify but not so easy
Why do you NEED 5 brokerages and 3 banks? Would it be possible to give up one of the brokerage accounts and/or one of the bank accounts?

I've contemplated using the Fidelity or Vanguard cash accounts instead of a bank account, and may do so in the future in effort to reduce the number of overall accounts. Supposedly, Schwab is the best for banking among the 3, but that would entail I move a brokerage and bank account there, and that's also an option.

Fewer accounts help more than fewer institutions. Citi my worst so far. Every account is silo'd so it might as well be at another institution. I have a checking, savings, credit card and brokerage account there, but aside from checking/savings being integrated, the others might as well be at other banks.
FootballFan5548
Posts: 262
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by FootballFan5548 »

I use Personal Capital to aggregate all of my "stuff". Maybe I'm too trusting, but I'm confident nothing will get hacked.

I have 2 bank accounts, BOA/Cap One. I have 2 credit cards BOA/Chase. I have a mortgage at Chase. I have 1 401k, 2 investment accounts (vanguard/Merrill edge), 2 IRA's (his/hers) both at Vanguard, and an RSU account from my company.

Personal Capital does a great job pulling all of it together for me so I can track Net Worth and total investment portfolio changes/allocation.
inbox788
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by inbox788 »

Hulk wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:40 amOur money is spread in so many places now (His and her 401ks, old 401ks, IRAs, HSAs, checking, MM, brokerage etc) it is a total pain to log into 10 different accounts every month or so to track it.
I agree it's a pain to log into all these types of accounts. I do wonder why you keep old 401ks and not just roll them into other accounts. Or at the very least, freeze them. The simplest thing is to find the most efficient asset class and put all the holdings into it, say US stocks or Total Bonds, and do the tweaking with the other accounts. With my HSA and 529, I have the funds in a US stocks/SP500 fund and just worry about the total balance. They're small portions of the overall portfolio and not worth tracking. Once a year trueup is more than sufficient.
dan23
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by dan23 »

I've focused on reducing the number of institutions I have accounts with. Now, for stock and bank accounts, I am down to Fidelity +BoA/Merrill. That is it. I think it is worth it having money at 2 institutions, so if one institution is out, you have another as backup. I only carry and use the BOA 2.625 percent back credit card though I have a few others I keep open for credit score purposes. You can set up spending alerts on many cards individually, but I have no issue with putting credit cards in aggregators as fraud protection for credit cards tends to be very good, so I am not worried about risks associated with aggregators having my credit card username and password. I am considering putting a credit freeze on, but haven't done it yet.

I use 2 factor on my Fidelity (Symantec VIP). Changing phones by calling Fidelity (VIP is tied to device) was not an issue when I got a new phone. BOA/Merrill 2FA is currently text message based. If they get decent 2FA, I will likely use 2FA with them as well - I probably should as is anyway.

On the aggregators, while I think they are great, my understanding is if you use them with bank accounts (and I would assume stock accounts) by giving them your user id and password, it gives the institutions a reason not to be liable when someone wires all your money away. Some institutions have a special kind of access for aggregators that is not the same as user name and password and does not give access to your account. My understanding is Fidelity will have one soon.
Finridge
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by Finridge »

PFInterest wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:44 am
i use mint but only for CC purchases.
i use excel otherwise.
so in answer: no i dont take that risk. but mainly because it doesnt serve a purpose for me.
Yes, I would not use Mint to track investment accounts, whether they have 7 figures in them or less. If you feel lucky you can use it track your checking account though in addition to your credit account.

Excel works fine. You don't need to always know *exactly* how much money are in your investment accounts at all times. The way I see it, you only to look at this maybe once or twice a year, or after a big market swing, and even then, you just need a rough idea of all your funds for retirement planning purposes. The rest of the time, it really doesn't matter. You do want to check on your accounts every month or so just to look for "irregular" activity (like unauthorized withdrawals or transfers)--that is only to make sure that nobody has hacked your account and is stealing from you. But you don't need to aggregate your net worth everytime you do this.

The few times I got into the habit of calculating my net worth more often, it was during periods of rapid upward market movement, and this was "fun" and self-reinforcing. Bad, bad habit. I think it usually only results in disappointment later on, and possibly (although has not happened to me yet) panic selling. So when I find myself starting to get into this habit, I try to break it.
puravida
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Location: Central Florida

Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by puravida »

Quicken 2016 and download transactions almost daily from 1 bank, a few brokerages, couple HSA's, a few credit cards. Benefits of having all transactions in 1 place to query and research is nice. Although having my passwords here is a concern.
Simple, passive, effective - the Bogle way...
MnD
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by MnD »

i notice that in most documented stories about account and investment fraud, the ones usually hit the worst are those that are clinging to the old ways of doing things via mailed statements, paper checks, doing financial business on the phone, keeping spreadsheets and other info stored on local PC's that are compromised either remotely or by friends/family etc. I don't worry one bit about things like reputable account aggregators or things like credit card companies (which are banks) "pulling" statement balance in full from checking at another bank. The worst security risk are the actions of the individual investor/consumer versus advanced financial information and management systems. The less I'm involved the better!
70/30 AA for life, Global market cap equity. Rebalance if fixed income <25% or >35%. Weighted ER< .10%. 5% of annual portfolio balance SWR, Proportional (to AA) withdrawals.
Finridge
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by Finridge »

KlangFool wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:43 am I pre-plan ahead of time and include multiple safeguards to detect the break-in when it happened. And, when they had stolen my login, they cannot get the money out easily. I

KlangFool
Please do share! What safeguards would you recommend we put in place.
benway
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:17 pm

Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by benway »

I use Google Sheets and have a data page that I simply download and cut and paste the number of shares owned into. I have an additional tab where I pivot the data into totals and asset class allocation percentages. I also use formulas in an auto-updating TVM calculator based on my real expected return and estimated retirement date. A third sheet is another pivot used to calculate my rebalancing. Its easy to use, just update the number of shares every once in a while and everything updates.

For bank accounts, credit cards and tracking spending I’ve been using Fidelity Full View.
Last edited by benway on Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
TravelforFun
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by TravelforFun »

Brokerage house statements don't give me what I want so I use a spreadsheet to track all my investments. I pull live quotes from Yahoo Finance so updating my spreadsheet is a piece of cake.

TravelforFun
Glockenspiel
Posts: 1135
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:20 pm

Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by Glockenspiel »

I’m a mid 6 figure guy but used to have that issue with lots of accounts. I rolled as much over to Vanguard as I could except for our 401ks and our HSA. I also consolidated funds across accounts. I use a spreadsheet to keep track of it all and it works well. It probably took a few months to get it all organized but I think it’s a good system now.
KlangFool
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by KlangFool »

Finridge wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:37 pm
KlangFool wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:43 am I pre-plan ahead of time and include multiple safeguards to detect the break-in when it happened. And, when they had stolen my login, they cannot get the money out easily. I

KlangFool
Please do share! What safeguards would you recommend we put in place.
Finridge,

Some simple example:

1) No debit card for your bank account.

2) Put an explicit block/instruction that no debit card should be issued from the bank account.

3) Put in an alert on your bank account when the balance drops to a certain level.

4) Do not allow overdraft on your bank account.

5) Find out exactly how someone can get money out of your Vanguard / Fidelity account.

6) Will you get an alert if someone links a new bank account to your Vanguard/Fidelity account?

7) Have 2 separate checking accounts. One for petty cash that you need to write a small amount on. Another for major bill payment.

8) Have 2 credit cards.

A) one for recurring bill payment. Do not use this card for anything else.

B) one for all other purchases. If lost or suspected fraud, you can get a new card easily and do not have to change your recurring bill payment.

KlangFool
Horsefly
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Location: Colorado, mostly

Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by Horsefly »

It's really interesting to read the posts in this thread. It sounds like I am very much in the minority.

Although we are well above the 7 figure threshold, I have all of my investments (taxable, two Roth IRAs, two tIRAs, an Annuity, and an HSA) at Fidelity. I do all my banking through Ally. I do have quite a few credit cards (7).

I don't do anything to consolidate all the info. I don't really see the need. I'll admit that I log in most days to Fidelity, and also to Ally. Mostly just to reassure myself that there are no surprises. I have recurring calendar events set up for when all the credit card statements are released, and calendar reminders to pay each bill every month. One credit card is automatically paid from our Fidelity taxable account, and all the others I pay electronically through Ally.

I used to use Quicken to keep track of things, but between the quirks and costs of Quicken and the amount labor I was expending, I just stopped. I don't see any point in it.

I know roughly when our credit card balances are higher than normal, and plan on some of the higher expenses associated with big vacations. Aside from that, I just take money out of Fidelity when I need it, and pay bills before they are due. I keep a simple spreadsheet of all of the withdrawals, so I know at the end of the year (and periodically through the year) how much we've burned. I can then make sure we stay under the 4% threshold.

For the life of me, I don't know what I would do with the info if I meticulously spent the time to put all of our investments, payments, and credit card info into one place.
obgraham
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Re: How do you 7 figure guys organize multiple accounts?

Post by obgraham »

In my working years I had several brokerage and fund accounts. Once retired I either spent the balances or moved them all. Now everything is in Vanguard. If I log in there I can see everything I need, and their tools will track any performance questions I have.

I see no need to make my life difficult, and no longer waste time with spreadsheets, etc.

Sure, if Vanguard fails I'm in a world of hurt. So will a huge portion of the rest of the country. In that event, I'll go on welfare.
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