Edward Jones rep door knocking

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dratkinson
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by dratkinson » Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:58 pm

Watts wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:27 pm
I have two EJ reps in the area who come by every couple of months, and it's clear that they're in competition with each other. Every time, I tell them I'm not interested, but they don't seem to get the message.
:idea:

I've only had one EJ rep by in ~20yrs, so never thought of this before. But if you are on a regular EJ route....



Ask the EJ reps for the names of some of their clients... so you can check their references, and get personal recommendations on EJ's work.

Then call each (victim) and confirm that they are an EJ client and when they might have time to meet and talk about their EJ experience. (You'll buy lunch to thank them for their time.)

And after pleasant introductions...
--Ask them about their EJ experience: how long have they been a client, are they happy with results....
--Turn the EJ method around and ask each about family/grandkids, investing for retirement/heirs,....
--Tell them EJ approached you and used their name as a reference.
--But you have resisted becoming an EJ client because of EJ's reputation for abusing its clients. (Internet search "leaving EJ".)
--Tell them you have resisted becoming an EJ client because EJ >1% fee will transfer >1/3 of your expected annual investment return to EJ. (Assume: 7% market return - 3% inflation - 25% fed tax bracket - 1% AUM fee = FA gets 1/3 of annual expected after-tax/inflation market return. But since EJ's fee is >1%, EJ will take >1/3. Bottom line: EJ clients put up all of the money, take all of the risk, while EJ gets >1/3 of client's annual return.)
--Tell them you couldn't get past above (reported abuse and fees), so have not become an EJ client.
--Tell them, instead of investing with EJ, you use the simple investing method taught on the free BH forum. And since the BH forum is celebrating its 20th anniversary this year, it has been doing this longer than the new EJ reps going door-to-door.
--Tell them Warren Buffett used this simple method to win a 10-year $1M bet against 5 hedge funds.

And if the EJ clients ask about the simple free BH investing method, then teach them where to go for more information.

Before ending your meetings, tell them the BH forum has helped many former EJ clients escape and improve their investing success. (Escaping is relatively simple to do.) And the former clients who have not already responded publicly on the BH forum with their new investing success, would probably respond to a PM asking about their new investing success. Bottom line: References from EJ-escapees are available.



Catch-22.
(1) If EJ reps have no clients willing to recommend them, then they are not good enough for your business.
(2) If EJ reps have clients willing to meet with you, then you can compare investing notes with them.

Either way, you can have some fun with the EJ reps.

And if you help a few EJ clients to rethink their investing methodology and leave EJ, then out of self-defense, the EJ reps should take your house off their route. :twisted:
Last edited by dratkinson on Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
d.r.a., not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor, you are forewarned.

tibbitts
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by tibbitts » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:32 pm

Mursili wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:13 pm
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:47 pm

Really? I guess this is one of those things that just depends.

In the last few years I have answered the door while not expecting anyone only to find:
Delivery people in "non-company" vehicles. (Numerous times--probably would have left the item, but who knows?)
A neighbor bringing a package of ours that UPS or FedEx had delivered to them by mistake. (More than once)
A neighbor we barely knew bringing a check to give DS for HS graduation.
A neighbor asking if we needed help with a vehicle because he noticed the hood on DW's car had been raised for a while as she got distracted with indoor chores after deciding to refill her windshield washer reservoir (just yesterday).

I have never had an issue telling a solicitor of any ilk to scram and their complying.
I had just read this post when the door-bell sounded at home. Outside was a young member of the home-town high school football team selling something for a fund raiser. I had a nice conversation with him, but sent him on his way since I had no cash. If he comes straight back and tells me he can take a check, I will write one out. (This seems much more old-fashioned that I usually am, I just have not had a chance to get to an ATM in a while.) This is a small town and I am happy to help out the team.
I think the question is whether door-to-door is the appropriate fund-raising mechanism.

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munemaker
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by munemaker » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:38 pm

Keep a knockin' but you can't come in
Keep a knockin' but you can't come in
Keep a knockin' but you can't come in
Come back tomorrow night and try it again
Performed by Little Richard and many others....

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sergeant
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by sergeant » Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:14 pm

GoldStar wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:28 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:39 am
HueyLD wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:52 am
FBN2014,

You can move to a gated community to curtail such visits.
We have one gated community in my town. I know the code, though. I suspect everyone does.

The EJ door to door is part of the
I just never answer my door unless I am expecting someone. Why answer the door if you don't know who it is? I assume you no longer answer the phone if you don't know who the caller is.
Residential burglars almost always knock on the front door prior to forcing their way in. When no one answers after awhile they assume the home is unoccupied and force entry. When someone answers they make up some story and leave quickly.

I think that you should "answer" by speaking through the door asking what the person wants, not by opening the door.
Lincoln 3 EOW! AA 40/60.

Scrapr
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Scrapr » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:16 pm

Watts wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:27 pm
I have two EJ reps in the area who come by every couple of months, and it's clear that they're in competition with each other. Every time, I tell them I'm not interested, but they don't seem to get the message.
I think the strategy here is tell ea EJ rep that you are working w/the other rep. Of course that becomes a problem if you can't tell the 2 reps apart because of long lead times. You might just tell one of them that they earned your business!

scratch that idea

likegarden
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by likegarden » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:30 pm

Years ago an EJ advisor lady walked down my street introducing herself to neighbors working in their yard or playing with their children. She invited us all to the new EJ office next to a Starbucks Coffeeshop. She asked me how I invest, and had never heard about Bogleheads, index funds and Vanguard.

JW-Retired
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by JW-Retired » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:44 pm

Do EJ reps only do these door to door sales attempts in their basic training? Seems odd that EJ has never knocked on my door, in spite of us living a long time in an affluent area just 3 blocks from an EJ office that's been there for years. It's in the same strip mall as the bank I walk to if I need to visit the ATM. Any thoughts about what have I done wrong right? :)

We do get political and religious door knockers from time to time.
JW
Retired at Last

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GoldStar
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by GoldStar » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:02 pm

sergeant wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:14 pm
GoldStar wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:28 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:39 am
HueyLD wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:52 am
FBN2014,

You can move to a gated community to curtail such visits.
We have one gated community in my town. I know the code, though. I suspect everyone does.

The EJ door to door is part of the
I just never answer my door unless I am expecting someone. Why answer the door if you don't know who it is? I assume you no longer answer the phone if you don't know who the caller is.
Residential burglars almost always knock on the front door prior to forcing their way in. When no one answers after awhile they assume the home is unoccupied and force entry. When someone answers they make up some story and leave quickly.

I think that you should "answer" by speaking through the door asking what the person wants, not by opening the door.
Good point - hadn't thought of that. Perhaps I will just start yelling through the door "Not Interested in whatever you are selling, thank you and have a nice day". It will require getting up off my butt though so I will have to weigh the risk with the disturbance.

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dratkinson
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by dratkinson » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:14 am

GoldStar wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:02 pm
sergeant wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:14 pm
GoldStar wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:28 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:39 am
HueyLD wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:52 am
FBN2014,

You can move to a gated community to curtail such visits.
We have one gated community in my town. I know the code, though. I suspect everyone does.

The EJ door to door is part of the
I just never answer my door unless I am expecting someone. Why answer the door if you don't know who it is? I assume you no longer answer the phone if you don't know who the caller is.
Residential burglars almost always knock on the front door prior to forcing their way in. When no one answers after awhile they assume the home is unoccupied and force entry. When someone answers they make up some story and leave quickly.

I think that you should "answer" by speaking through the door asking what the person wants, not by opening the door.
Good point - hadn't thought of that. Perhaps I will just start yelling through the door "Not Interested in whatever you are selling, thank you and have a nice day". It will require getting up off my butt though so I will have to weigh the risk with the disturbance.
Recall there are video doorbells that connect to a smart phone. So you could yell "Go away!" from your easy chair, or the grocery store.

Search: http://www.google.com/search?q=video+doorbell
d.r.a., not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor, you are forewarned.

Call_Me_Op
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Call_Me_Op » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:25 am

Gort wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:38 am
EJ reps have been knocking on doors for years. It's part of their business plan.
Gort,

Klaatu barada nikto
Best regards, -Op | | "In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity." Einstein

bgf
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by bgf » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:38 am

i spoke with my sister last night on the phone about her and her husband's first meeting with their EJ financial advisor... she is 5 years younger than I am, in her late 20s, and has been very successful in her job. she started working in a major city, HCOL, but moved to the south to a cheaper city. she kept her job and works remotely, still making a considerable income. she started working straight out of college and has no debt. they are set up to be quite wealthy down the road, assuming they make the right financial decisions now, which they are now trying to do.

anyway, she and her husband were happy with the advisor and found him very transparent about fees. they are also in the process of buying a home, and he explained to them that their mortgage broker was charging them way too much in discretionary fees and quoted them the wrong kind of mortgage, with the wrong assumptions of how much they would make for a down payment. they used a friend...

he also explained to her that she blew past her max 401k savings last year and needs to not put in more than the max. he also told them they were not eligible for the Roth IRA they set up and need to stop contributing to that as well.

obviously, he was helpful from the beginning. but...

EJ advisor is going to charge them 1.03% per year. i do not know what kinds of funds he will invest them in, but i imagine they will also be ~1.0% ER. so, i guess they'll take a ~2.0% haircut annually? yikes. that legitimately makes me want to vomit. despite his helpfulness, that is going to be A LOT of money. especially considering their savings power. i explained to her that it was going to be taken out every quarter, year after year after year... but she just didn't seem fazed by it. i think in a few years when she sees the thousands getting sucked out it will have more of an impact... i hope.

i told her to consider a flat fee advisor, but i don't feel comfortable saying anymore or taking any stronger of a stance. her and her husband are doing very well for themselves. if they budget, they will soon have far more wealth than my wife and i. they are adults, and its just not my place to do anymore i dont think... i told them they were doing great and stayed positive as i dont want to appear critical.

:confused
“TE OCCIDERE POSSUNT SED TE EDERE NON POSSUNT NEFAS EST"

passiveTiger
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by passiveTiger » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:39 am

tim1999 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:11 pm
For safety purposes my wife and I never answer a knock/ring at the door unless we are expecting someone and have verified through the peephole that it is that person. Unless it is a police officer in uniform and the marked car is outside.
+1

There is no reason for a “surprise” visit when almost everyone has a phone on them at all times.

If someone is knocking unannounced, it is a criminal or a salesperson - basically the same thing.

passiveTiger
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by passiveTiger » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:45 am

IowaFarmBoy wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:46 pm
andypanda wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:31 am
I have had a lighted doorbell next to my front door for 26 years. It isn't hooked to a buzzer, bell or ringer. My friends know to knock. My close friends come straight to the kitchen door.
This is brilliant! What do you do to avoid robocallers?
Nomorobo on VOIP. Hiya on wireless. Both free. Both effective - especially Nomorobo.

Strayshot
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Strayshot » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:53 am

bgf wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:38 am
he also explained to her that she blew past her max 401k savings last year and needs to not put in more than the max. he also told them they were not eligible for the Roth IRA they set up and need to stop contributing to that as well.

obviously, he was helpful from the beginning. but...
If being uneducated about the backdoor Roth IRA and spreading incorrect information is helpful, I would hate to know what being unhelpful would represent.

bgf
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by bgf » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:56 am

Strayshot wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:53 am
bgf wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:38 am
he also explained to her that she blew past her max 401k savings last year and needs to not put in more than the max. he also told them they were not eligible for the Roth IRA they set up and need to stop contributing to that as well.

obviously, he was helpful from the beginning. but...
If being uneducated about the backdoor Roth IRA and spreading incorrect information is helpful, I would hate to know what being unhelpful would represent.
i dont know how a backdoor Roth IRA works because it isn't applicable to my situation. i got this information second hand so its possibly my sister misspoke. still, that sucks if they have Roth capability and he isn't advising them in the proper manner.
“TE OCCIDERE POSSUNT SED TE EDERE NON POSSUNT NEFAS EST"

student
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by student » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:01 am

bgf wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:56 am
Strayshot wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:53 am
bgf wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:38 am
he also explained to her that she blew past her max 401k savings last year and needs to not put in more than the max. he also told them they were not eligible for the Roth IRA they set up and need to stop contributing to that as well.

obviously, he was helpful from the beginning. but...
If being uneducated about the backdoor Roth IRA and spreading incorrect information is helpful, I would hate to know what being unhelpful would represent.
i dont know how a backdoor Roth IRA works because it isn't applicable to my situation. i got this information second hand so its possibly my sister misspoke. still, that sucks if they have Roth capability and he isn't advising them in the proper manner.
I would not completely discount a person who did not mention backdoor Roth IRA as it is not a universally accepted method. (I would say a vast majority has accepted it.) Of course, I would still say no to EJ.

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Oak&Elm
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Oak&Elm » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:12 am

I occasionally have solicitors come to my door unannounced. If I'm not interested in what they are selling which is about 99% of the time I politely say "no thank you" If it's a hot day I would offer them a cold bottle of water. They are just trying to make a living, lighten up.

prairieman
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by prairieman » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:51 am

bgf wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:38 am
i spoke with my sister last night on the phone about her and her husband's first meeting with their EJ financial advisor...
EJ advisor is going to charge them 1.03% per year. i do not know what kinds of funds he will invest them in, but i imagine they will also be ~1.0% ER. so, i guess they'll take a ~2.0% haircut annually? yikes. that legitimately makes me want to vomit. despite his helpfulness, that is going to be A LOT of money......

i told her to consider a flat fee advisor, but i don't feel comfortable saying anymore or taking any stronger of a stance. her and her husband are doing very well for themselves. if they budget, they will soon have far more wealth than my wife and i. they are adults, and its just not my place to do anymore i dont think... i told them they were doing great and stayed positive as i dont want to appear critical.

:confused
Maybe buy her a good book and tell her your reasons for doing so. After that it is on her.
The longer you wait, the worse it will get because they will end up with a hopelessly complex set of expensive investments that are hard to unwind and which make taxes hard to do without an expensive tax guy.

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GoldStar
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by GoldStar » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:12 am

bgf wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:38 am
EJ advisor is going to charge them 1.03% per year. i do not know what kinds of funds he will invest them in, but i imagine they will also be ~1.0% ER. so, i guess they'll take a ~2.0% haircut annually? yikes. that legitimately makes me want to vomit. despite his helpfulness, that is going to be A LOT of money. especially considering their savings power. i explained to her that it was going to be taken out every quarter, year after year after year... but she just didn't seem fazed by it. i think in a few years when she sees the thousands getting sucked out it will have more of an impact... i hope.
:confused
It's even worse than what you are stating.
The funds they invest in typically also have front-end loads from what folks here have said. So they might take a 4.75% upfront haircut on their money initially in terms of front end loads and then the 2% a year. Once folks pay the front-end loads (the ones that know that they are - most don't even realize likely) they then feel like they have pre-invested in the funds that hopefully will beat the market so don't want to move out of those funds (and therefore pay more with the 2% yearly).

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Gort
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Gort » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:43 pm

Call_Me_Op wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:25 am
Gort wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:38 am
EJ reps have been knocking on doors for years. It's part of their business plan.
Gort,

Klaatu barada nikto
:happy

Alan S.
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Alan S. » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:30 pm

Here is the basic fee schedule: https://www.edwardjones.com/images/brok ... f-fees.pdf

Note the end of the schedule. Yes, after reviewing the schedule you would probably wonder if on line access also has a fee. EJ just wanted you not to worry about that. Click for FREE!! :sharebeer

bayview
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by bayview » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:59 pm

Mursili wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:13 pm
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:47 pm

Really? I guess this is one of those things that just depends.

In the last few years I have answered the door while not expecting anyone only to find:
Delivery people in "non-company" vehicles. (Numerous times--probably would have left the item, but who knows?)
A neighbor bringing a package of ours that UPS or FedEx had delivered to them by mistake. (More than once)
A neighbor we barely knew bringing a check to give DS for HS graduation.
A neighbor asking if we needed help with a vehicle because he noticed the hood on DW's car had been raised for a while as she got distracted with indoor chores after deciding to refill her windshield washer reservoir (just yesterday).

I have never had an issue telling a solicitor of any ilk to scram and their complying.
I had just read this post when the door-bell sounded at home. Outside was a young member of the home-town high school football team selling something for a fund raiser. I had a nice conversation with him, but sent him on his way since I had no cash. If he comes straight back and tells me he can take a check, I will write one out. (This seems much more old-fashioned that I usually am, I just have not had a chance to get to an ATM in a while.) This is a small town and I am happy to help out the team.
+100

We chose our neighborhood in the small city where we now live for this very reason. (We have sidewalks!) We sit on the front porch with our 5 pm vino and cheerfully holler back and forth with people (complete strangers) walking by. We get tips and compliments and shared stories from more strangers when working on the front yard flower beds. When the nighttime temps drop under 68 or so, we sleep with doors and windows open, screen doors on latch, easily sliced open I suppose. If the EJ Guy/Gal a block and a half away comes by, I will offer lemonade and politely (and kindly) tell him/her why s/he has come up the wrong sidewalk and wish him/her well. And I will absolutely answer the door to a young person with a clipboard. I was there once.

This Fortress Home mentality sounds awful. Although I’m still laughing at the functionless doorbell bit. That’s fantastic. :D
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Doom&Gloom » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:08 pm

bayview wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:59 pm
Mursili wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:13 pm
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:47 pm

Really? I guess this is one of those things that just depends.

In the last few years I have answered the door while not expecting anyone only to find:
Delivery people in "non-company" vehicles. (Numerous times--probably would have left the item, but who knows?)
A neighbor bringing a package of ours that UPS or FedEx had delivered to them by mistake. (More than once)
A neighbor we barely knew bringing a check to give DS for HS graduation.
A neighbor asking if we needed help with a vehicle because he noticed the hood on DW's car had been raised for a while as she got distracted with indoor chores after deciding to refill her windshield washer reservoir (just yesterday).

I have never had an issue telling a solicitor of any ilk to scram and their complying.
I had just read this post when the door-bell sounded at home. Outside was a young member of the home-town high school football team selling something for a fund raiser. I had a nice conversation with him, but sent him on his way since I had no cash. If he comes straight back and tells me he can take a check, I will write one out. (This seems much more old-fashioned that I usually am, I just have not had a chance to get to an ATM in a while.) This is a small town and I am happy to help out the team.
+100

We chose our neighborhood in the small city where we now live for this very reason. (We have sidewalks!) We sit on the front porch with our 5 pm vino and cheerfully holler back and forth with people (complete strangers) walking by. We get tips and compliments and shared stories from more strangers when working on the front yard flower beds. When the nighttime temps drop under 68 or so, we sleep with doors and windows open, screen doors on latch, easily sliced open I suppose. If the EJ Guy/Gal a block and a half away comes by, I will offer lemonade and politely (and kindly) tell him/her why s/he has come up the wrong sidewalk and wish him/her well. And I will absolutely answer the door to a young person with a clipboard. I was there once.

This Fortress Home mentality sounds awful. Although I’m still laughing at the functionless doorbell bit. That’s fantastic. :D
I agree. And I forgot the most entertaining and unusual one of all, but I do admit it made me a little nervous:

A few years ago I answered the doorbell, but instead of a nefarious EJ salesman, there was a teenaged kid with his car in our driveway. He said he was a friend of DS and knew he lived here, was on his way home from somewhere but had an upset stomach and didn't think he could make it home. He asked if he could use our bathroom. I had never met him before and didn't even recognize his name. I showed him where the bathroom was and sat in the kitchen until he came out. He apologized repeatedly and thanked me profusely. I texted DS shortly after, and he confirmed it was indeed his friend. We still laugh about it whenever the kid's name comes up in conversation.

Strayshot
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Strayshot » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:46 am

student wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:01 am
I would not completely discount a person who did not mention backdoor Roth IRA as it is not a universally accepted method. (I would say a vast majority has accepted it.)
Please clarify what you mean by “not universally accepted”? The “backdoor Roth” is a core pillar of tax efficient retirement investing for higher income folks, widely used, and in fact explicitly written in to the new tax legislation of the TCJA as being completely legal.

student
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by student » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:58 am

Strayshot wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:46 am
student wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:01 am
I would not completely discount a person who did not mention backdoor Roth IRA as it is not a universally accepted method. (I would say a vast majority has accepted it.)
Please clarify what you mean by “not universally accepted”? The “backdoor Roth” is a core pillar of tax efficient retirement investing for higher income folks, widely used, and in fact explicitly written in to the new tax legislation of the TCJA as being completely legal.
As far as I understand it, IRS has not issued a formal opinion of it, the closest is the following. https://www.fa-mag.com/news/irs-finally ... 39697.html (The author of this article viewed it as official but I have seen some who are still nervous and want to wait for a formal statement from the IRS.) As for the TJCA, as far as I know, it is not in the tax legislation but in the footnote of a conference report. http://www.tennlaw.com/05/backdoor-roth ... ax-reform/

I am simply being cautious when I said it is “not universally accepted.”

Strayshot
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Strayshot » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:26 am

student wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:58 am
As for the TJCA, as far as I know, it is not in the tax legislation but in the footnote of a conference report. http://www.tennlaw.com/05/backdoor-roth ... ax-reform/

I am simply being cautious when I said it is “not universally accepted.”
I am not sure what more you are looking for? That footnote was the clarity around this topic in section 13611 in the amendments by the 115th senate affecting 408A of the IRS code. The backdoor Roth is a sequential process that does not violate anything currently in tax law or IRS code. Expecting congress or the IRS to spell out every possible set of steps possible to achieve a goal and explicitly legislate if they are legal or illegal is not feasible.

student
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by student » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:53 am

Strayshot wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:26 am
student wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:58 am
As for the TJCA, as far as I know, it is not in the tax legislation but in the footnote of a conference report. http://www.tennlaw.com/05/backdoor-roth ... ax-reform/

I am simply being cautious when I said it is “not universally accepted.”
I am not sure what more you are looking for? That footnote was the clarity around this topic in section 13611 in the amendments by the 115th senate affecting 408A of the IRS code. The backdoor Roth is a sequential process that does not violate anything currently in tax law or IRS code. Expecting congress or the IRS to spell out every possible set of steps possible to achieve a goal and explicitly legislate if they are legal or illegal is not feasible.
I am not saying that I do not accept it. I am simply being cautious and said that it is "not universally accepted." This is a well known enough issue that an official guidance from the IRS would be nice. There are some who worry about the step doctrine.

miles monroe
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by miles monroe » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:13 am

i had a EJ rep come to my door about 10 years ago on a saturday afternoon. in the middle of summer. in atlanta. wearing a suit and tie. poor guy.

his office was in a shopping center a mile away. it's gone now.

deltaneutral83
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by deltaneutral83 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:17 am

bgf wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:38 am

i told her to consider a flat fee advisor, but i don't feel comfortable saying anymore or taking any stronger of a stance. her and her husband are doing very well for themselves. if they budget, they will soon have far more wealth than my wife and i. they are adults, and its just not my place to do anymore i dont think... i told them they were doing great and stayed positive as i dont want to appear critical.

:confused
Probably 1.03% AUM because she's mid range net worth (I think 1.25% is what is standard I had thought). They will also likely put her in "A" share loaded funds and her load charge will be proportional to the portfolio she keeps with them which sounds large for her age so maybe 2% load there. If they put her in American Funds her average ER will be in the 0.8% range if "A" shares. If she hands them $500k she will immediately get fleeced for about $10k on the front end load portion.

bgf
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by bgf » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:21 am

deltaneutral83 wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:17 am
bgf wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:38 am

i told her to consider a flat fee advisor, but i don't feel comfortable saying anymore or taking any stronger of a stance. her and her husband are doing very well for themselves. if they budget, they will soon have far more wealth than my wife and i. they are adults, and its just not my place to do anymore i dont think... i told them they were doing great and stayed positive as i dont want to appear critical.

:confused
Probably 1.03% AUM because she's mid range net worth (I think 1.25% is what is standard I had thought). They will also likely put her in "A" share loaded funds and her load charge will be proportional to the portfolio she keeps with them which sounds large for her age so maybe 2% load there. If they put her in American Funds her average ER will be in the 0.8% range if "A" shares. If she hands them $500k she will immediately get fleeced for about $10k on the front end load portion.
i spoke to her again a day or two ago and told her she should interview a flat fee advisor just for comparison's sake. she might learn more, and it couldn't hurt. she can always still go with EJ if she doesn't like the other advisor... i also know that the flat fee advisor will be far more adept at handling questions about EJ commissions than I am off the cuff.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
“TE OCCIDERE POSSUNT SED TE EDERE NON POSSUNT NEFAS EST"

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willthrill81
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by willthrill81 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:39 am

HueyLD wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:52 am
FBN2014,

You can move to a gated community to curtail such visits.
Or just put up a "No Soliciting" sign, which is good for keeping away a variety of such folk.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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GoldStar
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by GoldStar » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:40 am

willthrill81 wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:39 am
HueyLD wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:52 am
FBN2014,

You can move to a gated community to curtail such visits.
Or just put up a "No Soliciting" sign, which is good for keeping away a variety of such folk.
I actually went out and bought one. Spouse: "You are NOT putting that ugly thing on our door".
And then you also have the problem that some solicitors don't consider themselves solicitors.

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willthrill81
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by willthrill81 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:42 am

GoldStar wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:40 am
willthrill81 wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:39 am
HueyLD wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:52 am
FBN2014,

You can move to a gated community to curtail such visits.
Or just put up a "No Soliciting" sign, which is good for keeping away a variety of such folk.
I actually went out and bought one. Spouse: "You are NOT putting that ugly thing on our door".
There are some nice looking ones. And if your spouse doesn't like any of them, they can answer the door when solicitors come knocking. :wink:
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

bltn
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by bltn » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:31 am

multiham wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:06 pm
I would like to ask a question without getting roasted over a fire.

If you belong to this forum you are usually pretty knowledgable on investments and the importance of saving. I continuously read on here that Edward Jones is basically evil and that 99% of people don't need to have a financial advisor. My question is that isn't there cases where Edward Jones and other financial advisors are actually beneficial? I've read that over 40% of Americans have less than $10,000 saved for retirement, and that those aged 55 to 64 have an average net worth of $45,000. If Edward Jones or another financial firm is the one that gets you motivated to save, isn't it better to be invested in a high expense ratio investment than continuing their trend of not investing? Although they may be losing return to expenses, isn't that better than buying a more expensive car or other depreciating asset?
Or, simply put, is bad investing better than no investing? Maybe the answer depends on how bad. Maybe it depends on if bad investing instills a false sense of security.I always feel bad when I see these statistics for the low amounts saved by such a large fraction of the population. It makes me think that our public education system ought to address this problem. Many of these poor savers are bright people who don t prioritize or understand the importance of wealth accumulation.

I just had a very enlightening phone conversation with one of my wife s cousins about her finances. She is now 75 yo, never married or had children. She had several responsible jobs , well paid, some with large corporations, over her career. She never participated in voluntary retirement plans. She is very bright. She now has no personal savings except for a small inheritance from her parents. She took her Social Security early, and that is her only retirement income. She supplements this by dog walking. I emphasize, believe it or not, she is very bright. She is poor. Her younger brother is a very wealthy businessman.
Would my wife s cousin have been helped by a relationship with Edward Jones? It couldn't t have hurt.

I really believe this country would benefit from some form of financial education.

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vitaflo
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by vitaflo » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:41 am

GoldStar wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:40 am
willthrill81 wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:39 am
HueyLD wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:52 am
FBN2014,

You can move to a gated community to curtail such visits.
Or just put up a "No Soliciting" sign, which is good for keeping away a variety of such folk.
I actually went out and bought one. Spouse: "You are NOT putting that ugly thing on our door".
And then you also have the problem that some solicitors don't consider themselves solicitors.
I just printed a small piece of paper with the words "No Soliciting" on it and taped it to the window next to the door. It's not obnoxious at all. In the 3 years since I've had it up, zero solicitors. Before then I would get someone weekly dinging our doorbell.

Now I know when the doorbell rings its either a neighbor, a friend, or a delivery driver. It's always fun watching someone walk up to our front door, look at that little piece of paper, turn around and walk away.

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Mursili
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Mursili » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:07 pm

GoldStar wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:40 am
And then you also have the problem that some solicitors don't consider themselves solicitors.
Well, I am quite happy whenever a Girl Scout stops by to sell me some cookies. I have encountered plenty of positive attitudes when walking around the neighborhood with my Boy Scouts selling popcorn. Sure there are several people who either do not answer or who politely say "No," but we also get a not-insignificant number of people saying "You forgot to stop by last year."

I am glad to live in a place that seems to be old-fashioned in this regard. Maybe it is that it is a small town although there are other aspects of this town that are different from most places as well.
When it comes to havoc, no one wreaks like me! - Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz

CedarWaxWing
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by CedarWaxWing » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:37 pm

FGal wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:21 pm
In case anyone wasn't aware, this is definitely a sales tactic they encourage because it's all part of the "I am your NEIGHBOR! I will ask about your kids and grandkids and vacations and shoot the breeze with you about your church or sports activities... because I care" type of BS that makes them so seductive to their targets. Older, lonely, too timid/busy to understand how the market works people see this person that is coming over to introduce themselves, talk about THEM and LISTEN to them and want to be "friendly and neighborly" and most never notice the insane amount of fees/stupid churning because they think investing is too complicated and this rep is their buddy and they just... drift through life with their hands in as many peoples' pockets robbing them in plain sight.

:oops:

This really pisses me off, mostly because my inlaws were taken in by EJ. My MIL LOVES to talk about herself, in addition to being about as intelligent with money as a potted fern.
I have 3 friends who have accounts with EJ....

They all heard me explain why that is not a good deal for them...

two have grad degrees in the sciences, and are retired now...

one is not a college grad.

They ALL told me things like...

"he's my friend, and he takes good care of me", or

"he doesn't charge much and makes up for it by getting better returns".

Two of these guys have a pension, one does not... but none of them were moved by the facts, and I suspect they have purposely decided to not read anything on the topic (the literature we all know about.)

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GoldStar
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by GoldStar » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:44 pm

Mursili wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:07 pm
GoldStar wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:40 am
And then you also have the problem that some solicitors don't consider themselves solicitors.
Well, I am quite happy whenever a Girl Scout stops by to sell me some cookies. I have encountered plenty of positive attitudes when walking around the neighborhood with my Boy Scouts selling popcorn. Sure there are several people who either do not answer or who politely say "No," but we also get a not-insignificant number of people saying "You forgot to stop by last year."

I am glad to live in a place that seems to be old-fashioned in this regard. Maybe it is that it is a small town although there are other aspects of this town that are different from most places as well.
Where I live we buy from the girl scout and boy scout stands at the grocery store and I donate to them regularly (I won't buy the cookies - they get 10 cents a box from that - I just give them cash). I do sometimes have mixed feelings on the kid collecting for his hokey team; or the girl collecting for her horse-riding group. I pay for my kids' hobbies - some of their parents have more money than I do so not sure why they can't fund their kids' hobbies.
In any case - I was really talking about the Jehovah Witnesses that don't consider themselves solicitors - just want you to accept Jesus - I believe its part of their commitment to their church to try to sign up new members. Or the "solar expert" who isn't trying to sell you Solar Energy (or so he says) - just wants you to understand the merits and consider it as a possibility.

bltn
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by bltn » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:48 pm

multiham wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:06 pm
I would like to ask a question without getting roasted over a fire.

If you belong to this forum you are usually pretty knowledgable on investments and the importance of saving. I continuously read on here that Edward Jones is basically evil and that 99% of people don't need to have a financial advisor. My question is that isn't there cases where Edward Jones and other financial advisors are actually beneficial? I've read that over 40% of Americans have less than $10,000 saved for retirement, and that those aged 55 to 64 have an average net worth of $45,000. If Edward Jones or another financial firm is the one that gets you motivated to save, isn't it better to be invested in a high expense ratio investment than continuing their trend of not investing? Although they may be losing return to expenses, isn't that better than buying a more expensive car or other depreciating asset?
Or, simply put, is bad investing better than no investing? Maybe the answer depends on how bad. Maybe it depends on if bad investing instills a false sense of security.I always feel bad when I see these statistics for the low amounts saved by such a large fraction of the population. It makes me think that our public education system ought to address this problem. Many of these poor savers are bright people who don t prioritize or understand the importance of wealth accumulation.

I just had a very enlightening phone conversation with one of my wife s cousins about her finances. She is now 75 yo, never married or had children. She had several responsible jobs , well paid, some with large corporations, over her career. She never participated in voluntary retirement plans. She is very bright. She now has no personal savings except for a small inheritance from her parents. She took her Social Security early, and that is her only retirement income. She supplements this by dog walking. I emphasize, believe it or not, she is very bright. She is poor. Her younger brother is a very wealthy businessman.
Would my wife s cousin have been helped by a relationship with Edward Jones? It couldn't t have hurt.

I really believe this country would benefit from some form of financial education.

InMyDreams
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by InMyDreams » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:52 pm

CedarWaxWing wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:37 pm

They ALL told me things like...

"he's my friend, and he takes good care of me", or

"he doesn't charge much and makes up for it by getting better returns".
My friend, about her Ameriprise advisor, says she trusts him. I don't think I really got an answer about how he gets remunerated for his work.

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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by LadyGeek » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:10 pm

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