Edward Jones rep door knocking

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FBN2014
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Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by FBN2014 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:33 am

I just experienced a first. An Edward Jones rep knocked on my door trying to convince me that Edward Jones can tell the future and that they have all sorts of good ideas on how to beat the market, haha. Times must be tough for these full commission brokers that they are resorting to this type of cold calling. I did have some fun with her though, gave her a lesson in passive index fund investing and she said that I should be an advisor. I told her that I wouldn't be very successful since I would tell everyone to find your proper asset allocation for your age and risk tolerance and then buy and hold. Not much money to be made for an advisor with that model. She agreed. Poor girl, she'll probably quit the biz after my speech.
"October is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May March, June, December, August and February." - M. Twain

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Gort
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Gort » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:38 am

EJ reps have been knocking on doors for years. It's part of their business plan.

dknightd
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by dknightd » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:40 am

door to door. Strange

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HueyLD
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by HueyLD » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:52 am

FBN2014,

You can move to a gated community to curtail such visits.

The Wizard
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by The Wizard » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:24 am

dknightd wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:40 am
door to door. Strange
It's a neighborly thing, see?
Attempted new signature...

andypanda
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by andypanda » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:31 am

I have had a lighted doorbell next to my front door for 26 years. It isn't hooked to a buzzer, bell or ringer. My friends know to knock. My close friends come straight to the kitchen door.

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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:39 am

HueyLD wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:52 am
FBN2014,

You can move to a gated community to curtail such visits.
We have one gated community in my town. I know the code, though. I suspect everyone does.

The EJ door to door is part of the
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:40 am

HueyLD wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:52 am
FBN2014,

You can move to a gated community to curtail such visits.
We have one gated community in my town. I know the code, though. I suspect everyone does.

The EJ door to door is part of the initiation to become a sales droid.

http://kronstantinople.blogspot.com/p/e ... -saga.html
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

dknightd
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by dknightd » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:41 am

The Wizard wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:24 am
dknightd wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:40 am
door to door. Strange
It's a neighborly thing, see?
:)

Mr.BB
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Mr.BB » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:02 pm

Cold calling door to door is part of their business model. I had one guy check back a few times ( this was a few years ago). We were talking about bonds one time and he tried to get me into a 20 year private bond I had to laugh.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."

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ClevrChico
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by ClevrChico » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:05 pm

That happened here too. I told him that I'm a boglehead, he smiled and wished me a good evening. :-)

Grogs
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Grogs » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:53 pm

Yeah, this is how I met the local EJ rep years ago. She came by and knocked on the door one evening. She was a nice, attractive younger lady and we just talked about various things for a few minutes and then she left me her card and told me that if I needed any help with investments to give her a call. If I chose my investments based on how friendly the sales rep was, I would probably have invested my money with her.

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RickBoglehead
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by RickBoglehead » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:17 pm

Our development has a no soliciting policy. If EJ showed up, they'd be asked to leave and the Sheriff called.
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by denovo » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:21 pm

dknightd wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:40 am
door to door. Strange
Not really. I've had other banks like UBS and HSBC do the same. My response was a variant of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEhHEOIYgMY
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Watts
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Watts » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:27 pm

I have two EJ reps in the area who come by every couple of months, and it's clear that they're in competition with each other. Every time, I tell them I'm not interested, but they don't seem to get the message.

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FGal
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by FGal » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:21 pm

In case anyone wasn't aware, this is definitely a sales tactic they encourage because it's all part of the "I am your NEIGHBOR! I will ask about your kids and grandkids and vacations and shoot the breeze with you about your church or sports activities... because I care" type of BS that makes them so seductive to their targets. Older, lonely, too timid/busy to understand how the market works people see this person that is coming over to introduce themselves, talk about THEM and LISTEN to them and want to be "friendly and neighborly" and most never notice the insane amount of fees/stupid churning because they think investing is too complicated and this rep is their buddy and they just... drift through life with their hands in as many peoples' pockets robbing them in plain sight.

:oops:

This really pisses me off, mostly because my inlaws were taken in by EJ. My MIL LOVES to talk about herself, in addition to being about as intelligent with money as a potted fern.
FIREd as of March 2015!

boglegirl
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by boglegirl » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:29 pm

FGal wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:21 pm
...
This really pisses me off, mostly because my inlaws were taken in by EJ. My MIL LOVES to talk about herself, in addition to being about as intelligent with money as a potted fern.
Ouch.
I really hope my dear future SIL and DIL won't say these things about me, even in an anonymous online forum.

IowaFarmBoy
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by IowaFarmBoy » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:46 pm

andypanda wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:31 am
I have had a lighted doorbell next to my front door for 26 years. It isn't hooked to a buzzer, bell or ringer. My friends know to knock. My close friends come straight to the kitchen door.
This is brilliant! What do you do to avoid robocallers?

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:58 pm

boglegirl wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:29 pm
FGal wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:21 pm
...
This really pisses me off, mostly because my inlaws were taken in by EJ. My MIL LOVES to talk about herself, in addition to being about as intelligent with money as a potted fern.
Ouch.
I really hope my dear future SIL and DIL won't say these things about me, even in an anonymous online forum.
I agree. Not only that, but it insults the intelligence of potted ferns everywhere.
Last edited by arcticpineapplecorp. on Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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multiham
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by multiham » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:06 pm

I would like to ask a question without getting roasted over a fire.

If you belong to this forum you are usually pretty knowledgable on investments and the importance of saving. I continuously read on here that Edward Jones is basically evil and that 99% of people don't need to have a financial advisor. My question is that isn't there cases where Edward Jones and other financial advisors are actually beneficial? I've read that over 40% of Americans have less than $10,000 saved for retirement, and that those aged 55 to 64 have an average net worth of $45,000. If Edward Jones or another financial firm is the one that gets you motivated to save, isn't it better to be invested in a high expense ratio investment than continuing their trend of not investing? Although they may be losing return to expenses, isn't that better than buying a more expensive car or other depreciating asset?

tim1999
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by tim1999 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:11 pm

For safety purposes my wife and I never answer a knock/ring at the door unless we are expecting someone and have verified through the peephole that it is that person. Unless it is a police officer in uniform and the marked car is outside.

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FGal
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by FGal » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:11 pm

multiham wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:06 pm
I would like to ask a question without getting roasted over a fire.

If you belong to this forum you are usually pretty knowledgable on investments and the importance of saving. I continuously read on here that Edward Jones is basically evil and that 99% of people don't need to have a financial advisor. My question is that isn't there cases where Edward Jones and other financial advisors are actually beneficial? I've read that over 40% of Americans have less than $10,000 saved for retirement, and that those aged 55 to 64 have an average net worth of $45,000. If Edward Jones or another financial firm is the one that gets you motivated to save, isn't it better to be invested in a high expense ratio investment than continuing their trend of not investing? Although they may be losing return to expenses, isn't that better than buying a more expensive car or other depreciating asset?
No. Never Edward Jones. Horrible, terrible no good dirty rats.

In some cases, having an adviser might be beneficial for the truly timid and insanely busy folks. In which case, you set it up with Vanguard and pay a tiny percentage to have them help you out.

If you like a bit more hand-holding/features and don't mind a bit more cost involved, you go with Fidelity or TRowe. They are of the other "pretty good, but a bit more $$" folks.

But never EJ.
FIREd as of March 2015!

J295
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by J295 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:20 pm

There are appropriate instances for using advisors including EJ. Very uncharitable to castigate an entire profession and company based on biases grounded in limited personal experiences or attachment to DIY.

multiham
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by multiham » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:50 pm

J295 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:20 pm
There are appropriate instances for using advisors including EJ. Very uncharitable to castigate an entire profession and company based on biases grounded in limited personal experiences or attachment to DIY.
Totally agree even though I personally don't use anyone to invest my $.

While EJ is not for me, I volunteer during tax season to help people with simple tax returns. A lot of the individuals coming for help are retired or at least in there 60's/70's. What I have found is that there are many individuals that would NEVER trust a company that they can't make a personal face to face relationship with. They would not send a check into Vanguard/Schwab/Fidelity without establishing a PERSONAL relationship. They are intimidated to go into there local Fidelity or Schwab office as they don't understand the terminology and feel that they don't have enough money to invest to have someone spend time with them to explain. Now flip the page and you have an EJ person coming to your door and establishing that relationship. They speak in a language that these people understand and they feel comfortable to ask questions. Again, unless someone is telling me EJ stole $ from them or purposely put them in a fund that was guaranteed to lose $, my question still stands. Isn't it better to invest with EJ or another firm versus not saving or keeping all $ in a bank account earning 1%? Do people have examples where the EJ or other advisor customer is in worse financial shape over 10 years than if they just put the money in a bank account earning 1%? Please note that I am not saying that they are not in it to make commissions and that their funds do not have loads or high expense ratios.

oko
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by oko » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:18 pm

tim1999 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:11 pm
For safety purposes my wife and I never answer a knock/ring at the door unless we are expecting someone and have verified through the peephole that it is that person. Unless it is a police officer in uniform and the marked car is outside.
We also do like that. But if he/she comes when I am doing yard work or garage work, I have to talk to him/her.

Happened two times to me. I made the mistake of giving my email to one of them. He kept emailing almost every week, close to a year.

baritone
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by baritone » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:33 pm

FBN2014 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:33 am
I just experienced a first. An Edward Jones rep knocked on my door trying to convince me that Edward Jones can tell the future and that they have all sorts of good ideas on how to beat the market, haha. Times must be tough for these full commission brokers that they are resorting to this type of cold calling. I did have some fun with her though, gave her a lesson in passive index fund investing and she said that I should be an advisor. I told her that I wouldn't be very successful since I would tell everyone to find your proper asset allocation for your age and risk tolerance and then buy and hold. Not much money to be made for an advisor with that model. She agreed. Poor girl, she'll probably quit the biz after my speech.
Kudos to you. I would have been a bit rude and sternly told her how much money I lost being with EJ for several years.

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GoldStar
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by GoldStar » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:28 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:39 am
HueyLD wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:52 am
FBN2014,

You can move to a gated community to curtail such visits.
We have one gated community in my town. I know the code, though. I suspect everyone does.

The EJ door to door is part of the
I just never answer my door unless I am expecting someone. Why answer the door if you don't know who it is? I assume you no longer answer the phone if you don't know who the caller is.

JW-Retired
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by JW-Retired » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:46 pm

multiham wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:50 pm
Isn't it better to invest with EJ or another firm versus not saving or keeping all $ in a bank account earning 1%? Do people have examples where the EJ or other advisor customer is in worse financial shape over 10 years than if they just put the money in a bank account earning 1%? Please note that I am not saying that they are not in it to make commissions and that their funds do not have loads or high expense ratios.
I can agree EJ is very probably better than a 1% bank account over 10 years. But that's not a fair comparison. IMO, sooner or later in the 10 years this novice investor is going to tire of 1% in a bank and look for a more lucrative deal. It's just much much better for him/her that they find Vanguard or Fidelity or Schwab instead of EJ for this deal.
JW
Last edited by JW-Retired on Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Doom&Gloom » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:47 pm

GoldStar wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:28 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:39 am
HueyLD wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:52 am
FBN2014,

You can move to a gated community to curtail such visits.
We have one gated community in my town. I know the code, though. I suspect everyone does.

The EJ door to door is part of the
I just never answer my door unless I am expecting someone. Why answer the door if you don't know who it is? I assume you no longer answer the phone if you don't know who the caller is.
Really? I guess this is one of those things that just depends.

In the last few years I have answered the door while not expecting anyone only to find:
Delivery people in "non-company" vehicles. (Numerous times--probably would have left the item, but who knows?)
A neighbor bringing a package of ours that UPS or FedEx had delivered to them by mistake. (More than once)
A neighbor we barely knew bringing a check to give DS for HS graduation.
A neighbor asking if we needed help with a vehicle because he noticed the hood on DW's car had been raised for a while as she got distracted with indoor chores after deciding to refill her windshield washer reservoir (just yesterday).

I have never had an issue telling a solicitor of any ilk to scram and their complying.

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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by abuss368 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:02 pm

Thank you for sharing. We have not experienced that thus far.
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palaheel
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by palaheel » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:13 pm

andypanda wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:31 am
I have had a lighted doorbell next to my front door for 26 years. It isn't hooked to a buzzer, bell or ringer. My friends know to knock. My close friends come straight to the kitchen door.
This is the funniest thing I've seen on this board in a long time. Well done.
Markets crash. Markets recover. Inflation takes your money FOREVER.

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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by friar1610 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:26 pm

multiham wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:06 pm
I would like to ask a question without getting roasted over a fire.

If you belong to this forum you are usually pretty knowledgable on investments and the importance of saving. I continuously read on here that Edward Jones is basically evil and that 99% of people don't need to have a financial advisor. My question is that isn't there cases where Edward Jones and other financial advisors are actually beneficial? I've read that over 40% of Americans have less than $10,000 saved for retirement, and that those aged 55 to 64 have an average net worth of $45,000. If Edward Jones or another financial firm is the one that gets you motivated to save, isn't it better to be invested in a high expense ratio investment than continuing their trend of not investing? Although they may be losing return to expenses, isn't that better than buying a more expensive car or other depreciating asset?
I personally have no experience with EJ but your point is well taken and rings true in my own investing life. As a military careerist my first investment experience was through First Command (then called USPA&IRA), a "financial planning" and insurance sales organization that targets military people. (At least they used to. I know nothing about what they do these days.) The first investing I did was in a fund called Fidelity Destiny which was a "contractual" plan that had a front-loaded commission and high expenses. The point of the contract was that you committed to investing a specific amount monthly over a 10 or 15 year period after paying the sales commission for the entire plan during the first year. :oops: So it was essentially a very expensive take on dollar cost averaging/regular investing.

The fund actually did pretty well for me (although I'm sure I would have done far better with Mr. Bogle's S&P 500 Index) and I put one daughter through college on it. I subsequently broke the code that I was paying much more than I needed to, moved to no-load fund investing and eventually to VG. BUT, the concepts of regular investing and dollar cost averaging were valuable lessons that ultimately got me to FIRE. Would I have eventually learned these lessons without the "advisor"? Maybe, maybe not. But the point is that I got started on a reasonably successful investing career thanks to a rip-off plan.

I've since told any military person who will listen to run from anyone from this organization and to use the Thrift Savings Plan (which didn't exist back in the 70s). But I do admit to myself that they got me started.
Friar1610

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:37 pm

multiham wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:06 pm
I would like to ask a question without getting roasted over a fire.

If you belong to this forum you are usually pretty knowledgable on investments and the importance of saving. I continuously read on here that Edward Jones is basically evil and that 99% of people don't need to have a financial advisor. My question is that isn't there cases where Edward Jones and other financial advisors are actually beneficial? I've read that over 40% of Americans have less than $10,000 saved for retirement, and that those aged 55 to 64 have an average net worth of $45,000. If Edward Jones or another financial firm is the one that gets you motivated to save, isn't it better to be invested in a high expense ratio investment than continuing their trend of not investing? Although they may be losing return to expenses, isn't that better than buying a more expensive car or other depreciating asset?
I wouldn't say they're "evil". Afterall, can we say a entire corporation is "evil"? Isn't a corporation a collection of individuals? Aren't those individuals trying to maximize their own self-interest and in doing so, maximize the interest of the corporation? What can be said, and was written by Upton Sinclair is "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." Ed Jones salespeople likely aren't aware there's a better way (through lower costs) because if they did, it would be awful hard to get up in the morning and do what they do. So they most likely don't know, or don't believe the evidence that shows that low costs generally win. Or they are believing in the "triumph of hope over experience".

Also, I believe you are using a logical fallacy known as a "False Dichotomy", proposing it's an either/or. You did that here:
isn't it better to be invested in a high expense ratio investment than continuing their trend of not investing?
source (see number 4): https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15- ... cies-know/

You are saying in effect, "They either can invest in high cost EJ funds, or not at all." Nope, there's a third choice which involves investing in low cost funds. By saying they only have two choices, you're eliminating the possibility that they can (and should) do better.

And remember that in the investing business it's better to go with a fiduciary than not a fiduciary. Do you understand the difference? Would you want to deal with someone who doesn't have to have your best interest at heart, especially when it comes to your largest financial asset...even larger than your house? Can you guess which EJ is?

Fiduciary _____ or Not a Fiduciary ______
"May you live as long as you want and never want as long as you live" -- Irish Blessing | "Invest we must" -- Jack Bogle

Topic Author
FBN2014
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by FBN2014 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:12 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:40 am
HueyLD wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:52 am
FBN2014,

You can move to a gated community to curtail such visits.
We have one gated community in my town. I know the code, though. I suspect everyone does.

The EJ door to door is part of the initiation to become a sales droid.

http://kronstantinople.blogspot.com/p/e ... -saga.html
After reading that I heaved up my dinner. But I actually feel sorry for the poor soul that knocked on my door.
"October is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May March, June, December, August and February." - M. Twain

InMyDreams
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by InMyDreams » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:26 pm

Mr.BB wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:02 pm
Cold calling door to door is part of their business model. I had one guy check back a few times ( this was a few years ago). We were talking about bonds one time and he tried to get me into a 20 year private bond I had to laugh.
I think it was in 2008 that EJ opened an office near my neighborhood. The newbie showed up at my door, chatted for a moment, then gave me a hot tip about Bank of America.

So glad I didn't jump on board OR act on the tip!

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FBN2014
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by FBN2014 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:21 pm

tim1999 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:11 pm
For safety purposes my wife and I never answer a knock/ring at the door unless we are expecting someone and have verified through the peephole that it is that person. Unless it is a police officer in uniform and the marked car is outside.
Normally my wife insists that we don't answer unsolicited door knockers. But she wasn't home this morning so I let my guard down. :oops:
Last edited by FBN2014 on Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"October is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May March, June, December, August and February." - M. Twain

multiham
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by multiham » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:33 pm

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:37 pm


Also, I believe you are using a logical fallacy known as a "False Dichotomy", proposing it's an either/or. You did that here:
isn't it better to be invested in a high expense ratio investment than continuing their trend of not investing?
source (see number 4): https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15- ... cies-know/

You are saying in effect, "They either can invest in high cost EJ funds, or not at all." Nope, there's a third choice which involves investing in low cost funds. By saying they only have two choices, you're eliminating the possibility that they can (and should) do better.

And remember that in the investing business it's better to go with a fiduciary than not a fiduciary. Do you understand the difference? Would you want to deal with someone who doesn't have to have your best interest at heart, especially when it comes to your largest financial asset...even larger than your house? Can you guess which EJ is?

Fiduciary _____ or Not a Fiduciary ______
I'm sorry if my message was not clear as I am not a writer by profession. All I am saying is that I would rather see someone put their money into non-efficient investments versus not investing at all. Most of us on this forum think nothing of opening an account with Vanguard, Schwab, Fidelity etc and picking low cost funds. My experience (your experience may be different) is that when I volunteer to help older, lower income individuals with their tax returns, there are quite a few who do not trust anyone they can't personally meet and build a relationship with. I may be wrong, but I don't think I can meet face to face with Vanguard if I have $3,000 to invest. I know I can meet with Schwab or Fidelity but as I said earlier, this can be overwhelming if you don't understand the terminology and process. I fully understand there are more than 2 choices (not investing or investing in high cost funds). However, imho there is a substantial amount of people who will only invest with those they know which leads them to investing at their bank where they have a relationship and "Joe" or "Mary" are there to talk to them every time they stop by.

And yes I understand what fiduciary duty means. I am in total agreement with you that if a person is OPEN to investing at Vanguard, it is a much better choice than a high cost investment. Some are just not open to it based on their beliefs.

Sometimes I think that when I retire I'm going to go on a tour of the local Senior Centers and libraries to talk about how to avoid phone/e-mail scams, deal with contractors, develop a budget, and efficient investment options. No cost of course.

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FBN2014
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by FBN2014 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:51 pm

Grogs wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:53 pm
Yeah, this is how I met the local EJ rep years ago. She came by and knocked on the door one evening. She was a nice, attractive younger lady and we just talked about various things for a few minutes and then she left me her card and told me that if I needed any help with investments to give her a call. If I chose my investments based on how friendly the sales rep was, I would probably have invested my money with her.
Your post reminded me of this story. I owned a real estate appraisal business twenty years ago and at the time my best client was a mortgage brokerage that employed a gorgeous 20 year old loan officer. I mean drop dead gorgeous! She drove a fancy vehicle and one day I asked her what was the secret to her success that she was able to close so many loans that would enable her to drive such an expensive vehicle. She told me that first she would setup the appointment on the phone and then go to the prospect's house. She would wear a tiny mini skirt, high heels and a tight blouse with half the buttons unbuttoned in order to reveal her ample cleavage. Once in the prospect's house, she would strategically sit at the kitchen table directly across from the husband and she would lean forward in her chair just enough for him to get a good look and ask him to sign the loan application on the dotted line. The wife would go along, probably so that the loan officer would leave as quick as possible before the husband had a heart attack. She told me that the loan application had lots of added fees (this was in the days of subprime mortgages) that would pay her a handsome commission in the mid to upper four figures and she was amazed that the suckers, rather the borrowers, never asked about the high fees even though they were shown on the truth in lending statement. That company went out of business in the Great Recession and I always wondered what became of Miss Gorgeous. Perhaps she is now peddling her wares at Edward Jones! :moneybag :moneybag :D :D
"October is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May March, June, December, August and February." - M. Twain

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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Grogs » Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:32 am

friar1610 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:26 pm
multiham wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:06 pm
I would like to ask a question without getting roasted over a fire.

If you belong to this forum you are usually pretty knowledgable on investments and the importance of saving. I continuously read on here that Edward Jones is basically evil and that 99% of people don't need to have a financial advisor. My question is that isn't there cases where Edward Jones and other financial advisors are actually beneficial? I've read that over 40% of Americans have less than $10,000 saved for retirement, and that those aged 55 to 64 have an average net worth of $45,000. If Edward Jones or another financial firm is the one that gets you motivated to save, isn't it better to be invested in a high expense ratio investment than continuing their trend of not investing? Although they may be losing return to expenses, isn't that better than buying a more expensive car or other depreciating asset?
I personally have no experience with EJ but your point is well taken and rings true in my own investing life. As a military careerist my first investment experience was through First Command (then called USPA&IRA), a "financial planning" and insurance sales organization that targets military people. (At least they used to. I know nothing about what they do these days.) The first investing I did was in a fund called Fidelity Destiny which was a "contractual" plan that had a front-loaded commission and high expenses. The point of the contract was that you committed to investing a specific amount monthly over a 10 or 15 year period after paying the sales commission for the entire plan during the first year. :oops: So it was essentially a very expensive take on dollar cost averaging/regular investing.

The fund actually did pretty well for me (although I'm sure I would have done far better with Mr. Bogle's S&P 500 Index) and I put one daughter through college on it. I subsequently broke the code that I was paying much more than I needed to, moved to no-load fund investing and eventually to VG. BUT, the concepts of regular investing and dollar cost averaging were valuable lessons that ultimately got me to FIRE. Would I have eventually learned these lessons without the "advisor"? Maybe, maybe not. But the point is that I got started on a reasonably successful investing career thanks to a rip-off plan.

I've since told any military person who will listen to run from anyone from this organization and to use the Thrift Savings Plan (which didn't exist back in the 70s). But I do admit to myself that they got me started.
My first investing was with USPA&IRA as well. I graduated West Point in 95, and sometime in 96 our company XO approached me and suggested that I should give them a call if I was looking for a place to invest. I was naturally frugal, and investing seemed like a good idea so I ended up going with them. I remember that they had 3 pillars - an IRA, a taxable account, and whole-life insurance. I remember that he was very insistent that I needed to buy the whole life insurance even though I wasn't married because I probably would be someday, and then the rates would be higher. The IRA/taxable were in the Fidelity Destiny funds that you mentioned.

When I left the service in 2000, the automatic deductions to USPA&IRA stopped, and I didn't bother to ever update the accounts and continue them. I was pretty sure by that point the insurance was a waste of money and I was happy to let it lapse. For the Fidelity Destiny funds, I think it was 2005 before I finally killed them off. I believe they had made a bit of money by then, but didn't count the fees/commissions at the front end. Unfortunately, I didn't keep the paperwork so I don't know how much (if any) money I made after counting those initial commissions. I do know for sure that if you counted the money that I basically flushed down the toilet paying for the whole life plan for several years that I would have been better simply keeping the money in a checking account for all those years.

Interestingly, I was rearranging my bookshelves a couple of years and came across a book on personal finance for military officers that I had received in school. I thumbed through it for a bit and found that they had a chapter on mutual funds and the different types of loads. The Fidelity Destiny plan was called out specifically as an example of a really bad fee structure, and should be avoided. So I had been given the information to avoid the high fees of USPA and IRA, but I had never opened the book and read it while I was in school.

Grogs
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Grogs » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:20 am

FBN2014 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:51 pm
Grogs wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:53 pm
Yeah, this is how I met the local EJ rep years ago. She came by and knocked on the door one evening. She was a nice, attractive younger lady and we just talked about various things for a few minutes and then she left me her card and told me that if I needed any help with investments to give her a call. If I chose my investments based on how friendly the sales rep was, I would probably have invested my money with her.
Your post reminded me of this story. I owned a real estate appraisal business twenty years ago and at the time my best client was a mortgage brokerage that employed a gorgeous 20 year old loan officer. I mean drop dead gorgeous! She drove a fancy vehicle and one day I asked her what was the secret to her success that she was able to close so many loans that would enable her to drive such an expensive vehicle. She told me that first she would setup the appointment on the phone and then go to the prospect's house. She would wear a tiny mini skirt, high heels and a tight blouse with half the buttons unbuttoned in order to reveal her ample cleavage. Once in the prospect's house, she would strategically sit at the kitchen table directly across from the husband and she would lean forward in her chair just enough for him to get a good look and ask him to sign the loan application on the dotted line. The wife would go along, probably so that the loan officer would leave as quick as possible before the husband had a heart attack. She told me that the loan application had lots of added fees (this was in the days of subprime mortgages) that would pay her a handsome commission in the mid to upper four figures and she was amazed that the suckers, rather the borrowers, never asked about the high fees even though they were shown on the truth in lending statement. That company went out of business in the Great Recession and I always wondered what became of Miss Gorgeous. Perhaps she is now peddling her wares at Edward Jones! :moneybag :moneybag :D :D
This agent was conservatively dressed, so probably not her. :) Still, I did nearly fall for it. When she first came by, it was maybe 2013. In 2005, I had moved my IRA to a local advisor. I didn't invest any from 2005 when I started grad school until after I graduated and started a real job in 2011. When she came by, I had just bought my condo, I was investing in the company 401k, and I was contributing to the IRA again at this new advisor, so I didn't really have any more money to invest.

Fast-forward to 2015, and I had gotten a couple of pay raises, replenished my bank accounts, and I had new money available to invest. I found the card the EJ rep had given me and set up a meeting with her. One thing she said in the meeting really caught my attention. It was something like, "I'll never charge you more than a 5.75% load to sell you a mutual fund." That struck me as odd because on one hand it sounded terrible, but she had said it as if it was a good thing. That prompted me to research loads on mutual funds and I discovered how unnecessary they are. I also looked at my local advisor for the IRA to see what his fees were, and found that he was charging 2% AUM. :shock: That was what led me to start researching other options, and I eventually moved to index funds at VG.

At least in my case, EJ was good for opening my eyes to how bad the fees from advisors could be and prompting me to move to low-cost index funds. I regret that I threw out many of the records on my IRA over the years, so I can never reconstruct exactly how things played out. I do know this though: In 2015, the value of my IRA was less than my contributions. So over a period of almost 20 years, I managed to lose money investing with two different high-fee advisors. So no, I don't buy the argument that "at least they're getting you to invest something, and even if there are high fees that's better than nothing."

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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Grogs » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:32 am

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:37 pm
isn't it better to be invested in a high expense ratio investment than continuing their trend of not investing?
source (see number 4): https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15- ... cies-know/

You are saying in effect, "They either can invest in high cost EJ funds, or not at all." Nope, there's a third choice which involves investing in low cost funds. By saying they only have two choices, you're eliminating the possibility that they can (and should) do better.

And remember that in the investing business it's better to go with a fiduciary than not a fiduciary. Do you understand the difference? Would you want to deal with someone who doesn't have to have your best interest at heart, especially when it comes to your largest financial asset...even larger than your house? Can you guess which EJ is?

Fiduciary _____ or Not a Fiduciary ______
I'm not sure that helps all that much. I was still on the EJ mailing list for several years, and I remember a few after the change in fiduciary rules a few years back describing how they were going to comply. IIRC, they were going to stop selling the American funds with the 5.75% front-end loads and instead switch to their in-house brands with no loads. These funds had no loads, but the catch was that the new accounts would have a 1.5% AUM wrap fee. This would theoretically allow the advisor that he/she was picking the best fund for your needs, because no matter which fund they chose the client would still pay the 1.5% AUM fee. I don't know if EJ implemented this model, but it seems to suggest there are a lot of ways to potentially circumvent the fiduciary standard.

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:58 am

Grogs wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:32 am
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:37 pm
isn't it better to be invested in a high expense ratio investment than continuing their trend of not investing?
source (see number 4): https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15- ... cies-know/

You are saying in effect, "They either can invest in high cost EJ funds, or not at all." Nope, there's a third choice which involves investing in low cost funds. By saying they only have two choices, you're eliminating the possibility that they can (and should) do better.

And remember that in the investing business it's better to go with a fiduciary than not a fiduciary. Do you understand the difference? Would you want to deal with someone who doesn't have to have your best interest at heart, especially when it comes to your largest financial asset...even larger than your house? Can you guess which EJ is?

Fiduciary _____ or Not a Fiduciary ______
I'm not sure that helps all that much. I was still on the EJ mailing list for several years, and I remember a few after the change in fiduciary rules a few years back describing how they were going to comply. IIRC, they were going to stop selling the American funds with the 5.75% front-end loads and instead switch to their in-house brands with no loads. These funds had no loads, but the catch was that the new accounts would have a 1.5% AUM wrap fee. This would theoretically allow the advisor that he/she was picking the best fund for your needs, because no matter which fund they chose the client would still pay the 1.5% AUM fee. I don't know if EJ implemented this model, but it seems to suggest there are a lot of ways to potentially circumvent the fiduciary standard.
Excellent points. My point exactly is that with the financial industry it's obviously very important to understand what you're paying. And just as important, to compare costs among different companies to make sure you get the best deal. Don't you find it interesting that people will agonize over whether to spend $1 on a food item or $1.20 on the same item of a competing company because they wonder how the $1.20 item is better (they may assume it is, even though it isn't. It might just be a name brand and they're paying for the advertising of the product). But they never compare companies where they put far more of their hard earned dollars. That's an weird type of error in my opinion. People might use coupons to say a buck or two and then not get the lowest cost investments and lose far more than they save cutting coupons.
"May you live as long as you want and never want as long as you live" -- Irish Blessing | "Invest we must" -- Jack Bogle

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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:06 am

multiham wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:33 pm
And yes I understand what fiduciary duty means. I am in total agreement with you that if a person is OPEN to investing at Vanguard, it is a much better choice than a high cost investment. Some are just not open to it based on their beliefs.
Your post was clear. And I agree with your premise that some people believe they need to do business with someone face to face. Those beliefs will continue to be costly for them.

Plenty of people insist on buying products from the places they always have. That is not always in their best interest. I know people who want to buy CDs from their brick and mortar (local) bank even though there are numerous online banks that offer significantly higher rates. People's rigidity, fear of change, erroneous beliefs will cost them over their lifetime. That's a choice. People can change. They can realize they've been making decisions with no logical backing (i.e., believing that an online bank is somehow not as "safe" as a brick and mortar even though they're both FDIC insured). We must ensure we have cognitive flexibility rather than cognitive rigidity especially as we get older.
"May you live as long as you want and never want as long as you live" -- Irish Blessing | "Invest we must" -- Jack Bogle

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GoldStar
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by GoldStar » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:09 am

Doom&Gloom wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:47 pm
GoldStar wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:28 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:39 am
HueyLD wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:52 am
FBN2014,

You can move to a gated community to curtail such visits.
We have one gated community in my town. I know the code, though. I suspect everyone does.

The EJ door to door is part of the
I just never answer my door unless I am expecting someone. Why answer the door if you don't know who it is? I assume you no longer answer the phone if you don't know who the caller is.
Really? I guess this is one of those things that just depends.

In the last few years I have answered the door while not expecting anyone only to find:
Delivery people in "non-company" vehicles. (Numerous times--probably would have left the item, but who knows?)
A neighbor bringing a package of ours that UPS or FedEx had delivered to them by mistake. (More than once)
A neighbor we barely knew bringing a check to give DS for HS graduation.
A neighbor asking if we needed help with a vehicle because he noticed the hood on DW's car had been raised for a while as she got distracted with indoor chores after deciding to refill her windshield washer reservoir (just yesterday).

I have never had an issue telling a solicitor of any ilk to scram and their complying.
Yes - really. If I have a package that requires a signature (new computer, etc) we look at tracking info so know what day it shows up - and then can look out the window to verify there is a delivery truck from the carrier before we open the door. I simply got tired of having my time interrupted by Johova Wintesses, Solar salesman, Verizon FIOS salesman, etc. Most of my neighbors do the same - we will call or text each other stating "is it a good time to stop by" rather than arriving announced. Also, some of my neighbors have stated they feel it rude when folks stop by unexpectedly. Perhaps it depends what part of the country you live in.
These days - it's also a safety issue - some affluent areas of our country have had home invasions.

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c.coyle
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by c.coyle » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:19 am

andypanda wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:31 am
I have had a lighted doorbell next to my front door for 26 years. It isn't hooked to a buzzer, bell or ringer. My friends know to knock. My close friends come straight to the kitchen door.
I was taught to always ring and knock. Then to step to the side so I wasn't visible through the looking glass.
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Topic Author
FBN2014
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by FBN2014 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:11 pm

Here's what happens nowadays when someone knocks on your door. Hilarious but true.

https://youtu.be/0Swzvm-gXHg
"October is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May March, June, December, August and February." - M. Twain

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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by AlphaLess » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:11 pm

HueyLD wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:52 am
FBN2014,

You can move to a gated community to curtail such visits.
Or you can just throw dirty water on them from your balcony.
"A Republic, if you can keep it". Benjamin Franklin. 1787. | Party affiliation: Vanguard. Religion: low-cost investing.

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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by AlphaLess » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:12 pm

FBN2014 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:11 pm
Here's what happens nowadays when someone knocks on your door. Hilarious but true.

https://youtu.be/0Swzvm-gXHg
In some states, you get shot at.
"A Republic, if you can keep it". Benjamin Franklin. 1787. | Party affiliation: Vanguard. Religion: low-cost investing.

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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by tibbitts » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:16 pm

Yes - really. If I have a package that requires a signature (new computer, etc) we look at tracking info so know what day it shows up - and then can look out the window to verify there is a delivery truck from the carrier before we open the door.
The odds are .0001% that you'll be home when the package arrives. You have to intercept the shipment online and have it held at the delivery facility, and drive there. So annoying. Lots of vendors won't do the "hold at shipping facility" option.

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Mursili
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Re: Edward Jones rep door knocking

Post by Mursili » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:13 pm

Doom&Gloom wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:47 pm

Really? I guess this is one of those things that just depends.

In the last few years I have answered the door while not expecting anyone only to find:
Delivery people in "non-company" vehicles. (Numerous times--probably would have left the item, but who knows?)
A neighbor bringing a package of ours that UPS or FedEx had delivered to them by mistake. (More than once)
A neighbor we barely knew bringing a check to give DS for HS graduation.
A neighbor asking if we needed help with a vehicle because he noticed the hood on DW's car had been raised for a while as she got distracted with indoor chores after deciding to refill her windshield washer reservoir (just yesterday).

I have never had an issue telling a solicitor of any ilk to scram and their complying.
I had just read this post when the door-bell sounded at home. Outside was a young member of the home-town high school football team selling something for a fund raiser. I had a nice conversation with him, but sent him on his way since I had no cash. If he comes straight back and tells me he can take a check, I will write one out. (This seems much more old-fashioned that I usually am, I just have not had a chance to get to an ATM in a while.) This is a small town and I am happy to help out the team.
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