Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

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kjvmartin
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Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by kjvmartin »

Edit: Conclusion added in reply #33.

Background: 10 year career civil servant. Looking to grow and learn new challenges, and have been "close" (runner up) to advancing a few times in my field. I typically peruse government job listings weekly and have made it a point to investigate positions in other agencies where the work sounds interesting, even if it's not similar to my typical work, if there is a substantial increase in pay. Most of them disqualify me when I fill out the application. Rarely, the qualifications are simply "X years of Y classification level, and any bachelors degree." I've applied for a handful of those. In several years this has yielded zero interviews, as I would kind of expect.

Now: I've been invited to interview for an administrative role, but with no direct reports, that pays 41% more than my current position (I would hit 6 figures). This is not my situation, but for sake of example, say you worked for the department of health/education/basket weaving as a random analyst and got invited to interview in the department of public works as a top level analyst role. It just seems weird. It's on the far edge of my commuting range and would eventually probably necessitate a minor relocation. The interview is a long drive as well.

This potential position sounds pretty cool, but I honestly don't understand some of the requirements in the job description. I filled out my application as such. In other words: I did not lie or embellish anything. It's not anything that would require advanced degrees to do, but it's just very distant from my current field.

I have to wonder why I got invited to this interview, and should I use a half day off work to even attend?
Last edited by kjvmartin on Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
MotoTrojan
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by MotoTrojan »

Sounds like a lot more to gain than to lose. I'd go learn more.
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Why not? Maybe you get it....maybe you acquire someone to network with who points you to a job closer to where you are now at some intermediate salary.
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Taylor Larimore
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by Taylor Larimore »

kjvmartin:

Whether you get the job or not, you will probably learn how to better interview, etc..

I would seriously consider it if you have nothing to lose.

Best wishes.
Taylor (civil service retiree)
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rjbraun
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by rjbraun »

What the prior posters said. Yes, go. Unless your 1/2-day off from work is so so sacred to use, it seems worth it to me. I guess the only caveat might be if there's any chance that you take off the half-day only to find the interviewer a no-show or something. On that front, maybe just be extra careful to confirm everything in advance to minimize that possibility.
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kjvmartin
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by kjvmartin »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:42 pm Why not? Maybe you get it....maybe you acquire someone to network with who points you to a job closer to where you are now at some intermediate salary.
I had not thought about the potential to network. Very good thought! That about settles it.

To respond to the no-show thoughts: I believe this will be a 3-4 person panel. The interview will definitely take place.
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

You are being invited-that is a good sign. Go!
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jminv
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by jminv »

No reason not to particularly since you have been applying with no luck. Maybe you’ll learn something in this interview or it’ll be a great fit and you’ll be hired. If you don’t go, you won’t know.
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by Tdubs »

Don't make the decision for them by not going.
Cruise
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by Cruise »

There are a number of possibilities here:

1. There are no internal candidates because the selectee would either be working under a very difficult supervisor or would have to work in an extremely difficult subordinate.

2, There is a favored internal candidate and the hiring authority wants to tilt the process.

3. They seeking someone with a complimentary background.

Go to the interview for the experience, but get a sense of why the incumbent left, who remains, and what about your skills lol set would make you an effective contributor.
rooms222
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by rooms222 »

I got a government interview once, and drove to the other side of the state and stayed in a cheap motel room to make the interview. I came to find out that the elected official had decided to interview all the applicants for the job. With that being said, I would go.
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by Sandi_k »

The job market is very hot right now, and candidates are seeking glamorous jobs, not civil service.

As a result, many agencies are opening up to external candidates, where in less tight job markets, preference was given to internal candidates.

Go. You might surprise yourself.
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Watty
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by Watty »

Sandi_k wrote: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:50 pm The job market is very hot right now, and candidates are seeking glamorous jobs, not civil service.

As a result, many agencies are opening up to external candidates, where in less tight job markets, preference was given to internal candidates.

Go. You might surprise yourself.
+1

Your local job market also matters. They may not have a budget to pay for relocation or people may not want to move there.

I'm not sure about government jobs but in the private sector they could hire you in at the low end of the salary range and that could make you more attractive.

Being a local candidate also means that you could probably start in two weeks after giving two weeks notice at your current job if you are needed ASAP. It can take many months for someone to relocate. When someone relocates to a different part of the country there is also a risk that they will not like it and move again in a few years.
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by rob »

At the least to not disappoint whoever "invited" you (maybe it's some criteria rather than a person). I see exactly ZERO down-side.
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kjvmartin
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by kjvmartin »

Cruise wrote: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:07 pm There are a number of possibilities here:

1. There are no internal candidates because the selectee would either be working under a very difficult supervisor or would have to work in an extremely difficult subordinate.

2, There is a favored internal candidate and the hiring authority wants to tilt the process.

3. They seeking someone with a complimentary background.

Go to the interview for the experience, but get a sense of why the incumbent left, who remains, and what about your skills lol set would make you an effective contributor.
Good points. Thanks.

I did forget to mention this seems to be a newly created position.

This will be one interview where I don’t struggle with the final question of “Do you have any questions?”
ElJefe302
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by ElJefe302 »

As others have said you can stand to benefit a lot even if you don’t get the job. I’m quite happy where I’m at in my current field but I apply, take the test and interview for every civil service job I qualify for. Helps you prepare for the job you want later on in the future :mrgreen:
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by delamer »

If you don’t understand some of the requirements in the job position, I think you’d be wasting your time.

(I also think it is unlikely that you’ll get an interview.)
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serbeer
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by serbeer »

If you don't ask you don't get, so go get it
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kjvmartin
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by kjvmartin »

delamer wrote: Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:44 pm If you don’t understand some of the requirements in the job position, I think you’d be wasting your time.

(I also think it is unlikely that you’ll get an interview.)
I went

There were 3 questions where I had zero experience in the area they were looking for. The rest were more generalities, personality, situational.
It seemed to go well.
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by FAR15 »

As the saying goes, 80 percent of life is just showing up!

Have been as federal civil servant for the past 14 years, from GS 12 to 15 levels, I can say that a lot of people who just show up get offers. I’d go, put your best foot forward at the interview, and see what happens. Absolutely no reason you shouldn’t take until the post-offer decision date to continue weighing the pros and cons, even if you ultimately decide to pass.

Also, even if you’re less than optimally qualified but are offered a position, attitude and effort go a long way to overcoming those challenges in the federal workplace. And if you are offered the position it’s because they see something they like in you for that job. No need to make the ultimate decision now, but don’t yourself short in the meantime. -Dan
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kjvmartin
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by kjvmartin »

FAR15 wrote: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:31 pm As the saying goes, 80 percent of life is just showing up!

Have been as federal civil servant for the past 14 years, from GS 12 to 15 levels, I can say that a lot of people who just show up get offers. I’d go, put your best foot forward at the interview, and see what happens. Absolutely no reason you shouldn’t take until the post-offer decision date to continue weighing the pros and cons, even if you ultimately decide to pass.

Also, even if you’re less than optimally qualified but are offered a position, attitude and effort go a long way to overcoming those challenges in the federal workplace. And if you are offered the position it’s because they see something they like in you for that job. No need to make the ultimate decision now, but don’t yourself short in the meantime. -Dan
Thanks Dan!

I did go. The equivalent in your world would be going from an 11 to an immediate 13 that turns into a 15. Your scale tops higher, but this would still be a significant boost.

The questions I couldn't give good/any answers on, one would have to be an inside hire. It'd be like wanting experience doing moon landings, but interviewing someone who never worked at NASA. In my defense, they brought me in for the interview knowing full well that I lack experience in their line of work. So, I did the best I could.

The first 3 of the 14 questions were industry specific and I was getting that sinking gut feeling that I made some kind of error in going, but after that it was stuff I could answer quite well. They are doing 1 or possibly 2 days of interviews and I should get a response in about two weeks.
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by delamer »

kjvmartin wrote: Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:18 pm
delamer wrote: Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:44 pm If you don’t understand some of the requirements in the job position, I think you’d be wasting your time.

(I also think it is unlikely that you’ll get an interview.)
I went

There were 3 questions where I had zero experience in the area they were looking for. The rest were more generalities, personality, situational.
It seemed to go well.
Keep us posted!

For the field I was in, it was not unusual for applicants to meet the basic requirements but not have the experience to do the the work at the level needed.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
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kjvmartin
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by kjvmartin »

rooms222 wrote: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:24 pm I got a government interview once, and drove to the other side of the state and stayed in a cheap motel room to make the interview. I came to find out that the elected official had decided to interview all the applicants for the job. With that being said, I would go.
That was my strong guess, but they confirmed the opposite. Just a few interviews. This leads me to believe they have a hand picked internal candidate but are trying to fulfill a civil service interviewing requirement. It would probably be better for morale not to interview half the office and disappoint people they have to work with daily.

In my current agency they interview just about *everyone* for every promotion and we are closed off to outside applicants. It's not uncommon to see the management team in interviews 8 hours a day for an entire week for a mid level manager opening.
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by Cruise »

OP: Did you ask the panel why they chose to interview you?
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by kjvmartin »

Cruise wrote: Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:29 am OP: Did you ask the panel why they chose to interview you?
No. I debated that, but I felt like it could come across in a negative way.
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by aspirit »

Do not be fool-hearty, 41% extra annually might be within your grasp. I'd suspect you've been chosen, via .gov research of .gov data bases.
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by NextMil »

Please tell me you scribbled down the questions post interview as a cheat sheet for if you don't get it and another opportunity like this comes up. Obviously I am late to the party, but most people in life have a tendency to succumb, at least a little, to impostor syndrome, which shouldn't be confused with being humble. Take a chance on yourself 10 out of 10 times.
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by rich126 »

The government is messed up and they often hire people w/o proper qualifications so go for it. I've been in and out of federal government a few times and it is maddening. I have a relative who has a PhD in sociology and ended up with a government job as a statistician. The interviewer liked her despite her lack of math training.
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by soccerrules »

Go, for sure.

Research as much as you can about the role, get prepared with questions, learn about the people interviewing.
Be ready to explain why you are interested in the role and how it why it might be a good fit. (sell yourself)

You never know where this might lead. You get the job or they have something else that is a better fit now or in the future.

Best of luck, let us know how it goes.
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kjvmartin
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by kjvmartin »

NextMil wrote: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:12 am Please tell me you scribbled down the questions post interview as a cheat sheet for if you don't get it and another opportunity like this comes up. Obviously I am late to the party, but most people in life have a tendency to succumb, at least a little, to impostor syndrome, which shouldn't be confused with being humble. Take a chance on yourself 10 out of 10 times.
I do remember those questions, but if I continue my current line of work (which is a fine job) and interview again for that position, I still won't have any experience to answer the questions in a satisfactory way. My analogy before - it would be like applying to work at NASA and them asking you about your last moon walk. I can only get the experience they were asking about by working for that agency. It does not exist within my realm in any way.
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by rjbraun »

kjvmartin wrote: Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:37 pm
NextMil wrote: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:12 am Please tell me you scribbled down the questions post interview as a cheat sheet for if you don't get it and another opportunity like this comes up. Obviously I am late to the party, but most people in life have a tendency to succumb, at least a little, to impostor syndrome, which shouldn't be confused with being humble. Take a chance on yourself 10 out of 10 times.
I do remember those questions, but if I continue my current line of work (which is a fine job) and interview again for that position, I still won't have any experience to answer the questions in a satisfactory way. My analogy before - it would be like applying to work at NASA and them asking you about your last moon walk. I can only get the experience they were asking about by working for that agency. It does not exist within my realm in any way.
Fair enough.

But, might it be beneficial to try to understand what is behind the question itself and then try to address that? "Well, I have never done a moon walk, but perhaps if you could give me an idea of what aspects of a moon walk interest you (navigating uncharted waters (so to speak), the need to be completely self-reliant, etc), I could try to shed some light on that." Ideally, maybe the interviewer says, well, in order to go on a moon walk you need to do lots of training beforehand over a large number of topics. Then, you might be able to say, "oh, when I took on project x at work, I had to do everything from the ground up: identifying what skills were required, recruiting and leading the appropriate team, etc.

Of course, the interviewer could be difficult and say, I asked about moon walks and that's all that counts. At that point, I guess you concede you've never done one but would love to have the opportunity to. And, depending on the interviewer's mood, you might add -- very enthusiastically, and sincerely (assuming that you are) -- why you think you would be the best moon walker the company could ever hope to have!
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by rjbraun »

duplicate post
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kjvmartin
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by kjvmartin »

Received a notification today regarding the interview:

"At this time, we have decided not to fill the position."

This is interesting to me. It seemed like a very desirable position.
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Re: Civil service: Long Shot Interview.. Would you go?

Post by delamer »

kjvmartin wrote: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:50 am Received a notification today regarding the interview:

"At this time, we have decided not to fill the position."

This is interesting to me. It seemed like a very desirable position.
Likely means either 1) we lost the budget or 2) we couldn’t find a candidate that met our needs.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
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