Sucking up to make more money?

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masonstone
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Sucking up to make more money?

Post by masonstone » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:26 am

I just have a very hard time sucking up, even if it will result in a pay increase. Anyone else feel the same?

Pinotage
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by Pinotage » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:31 am

How much more money do you need, and why would you need to become a sycophant to get it?

Serious questions.

afan
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by afan » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:32 am

Sucking up is simply part of the job. Like coming to work.
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samsoes
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by samsoes » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:35 am

afan wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:32 am
Sucking up is simply part of the job. Like coming to work.
I prefer being a thorn in the side.
"Happiness Is Not My Companion" - Gen. Gouverneur K. Warren. | (Avatar is the statue of Gen. Warren atop Little Round Top @ Gettysburg National Military Park.)

RadAudit
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by RadAudit » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:36 am

Too many variables to make it a viable strategy for long term wealth accumulation.
FI is the best revenge. LBYM. Invest the rest. Stay the course. - PS: The calvary isn't coming, kids. You are on your own.

masonstone
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by masonstone » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:38 am

Pinotage wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:31 am
How much more money do you need, and why would you need to become a sycophant to get it?

Serious questions.
I don't "need" more money. DW and I make about 900k/year (combined). There's a ripe opportunity for me to increase my income by 200-300K (from 400k to 700k) but it has caused me to be more cautious at work instead of butting heads, even when the C Suite people piss me off. That's bothering me. I'm a sub-specialist physician and take great pride in my work.
Last edited by masonstone on Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Stewie
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by Stewie » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:38 am

I'm not good at that either, and definitely feel it has held me back. In the company where I work, that sort of thing is definitely valued more than technical skill. It just depends on what your skillset is, what you believe is ethical and how badly you want to get ahead. It reminds me the Monk & the Minister parable JL Collins used at the beginning of his book The Simple Path to Wealth. Do you want to be a monk or a minister?

KlangFool
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by KlangFool » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:39 am

masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:26 am
I just have a very hard time sucking up, even if it will result in a pay increase. Anyone else feel the same?
masonstone,

You have a lousy attitude. You need a mental adjustment. Your job is to make your boss look good in front of his boss. So, what has this got to do with sucking up?

KlangFool

masonstone
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by masonstone » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:40 am

Stewie wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:38 am
I'm not good at that either, and definitely feel it has held me back. In the company where I work, that sort of thing is definitely valued more than technical skill. It just depends on what your skillset is, what you believe is ethical and how badly you want to get ahead. It reminds me the Monk & the Minister parable JL Collins used at the beginning of his book The Simple Path to Wealth. Do you want to be a monk or a minister?
I'm a sub-specialist physician and what they're doing is not unethical, just disagreements that are pissing me off and I feel like butting heads would possibly hold me back.

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bengal22
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by bengal22 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:41 am

If "sucking up" means working hard, going the extra mile, following directions, being loyal and respectful, then by all means "suck up."
"Earn All You Can; Give All You Can; Save All You Can." .... John Wesley

masonstone
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by masonstone » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:41 am

KlangFool wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:39 am
masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:26 am
I just have a very hard time sucking up, even if it will result in a pay increase. Anyone else feel the same?
masonstone,

You have a lousy attitude. You need a mental adjustment. Your job is to make your boss look good in front of his boss. So, what has this got to do with sucking up?

KlangFool
That's the thing I don't consider the C-suite folks my boss. Just admins that are overpaid. And my job is definitely not to make them look good in-front of their boss. I couldn't care less about that.

KlangFool
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by KlangFool » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:45 am

masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:38 am
Pinotage wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:31 am
How much more money do you need, and why would you need to become a sycophant to get it?

Serious questions.
I don't "need" more money. DW and I make about 900k/year (combined). There's a ripe opportunity for me to increase my income by 200-300K (from 400k to 700k) but it has caused me to be more cautious at work instead of butting heads, even when the C Suite people piss me off. That's bothering me. I'm a sub-specialist physician and take great pride in my work.
masonstone,

When you asked the wrong question, you will never get the right answer!

<<it has caused me to be more cautious at work instead of butting heads, even when the C Suite people piss me off. That's bothering me. I'm a sub-specialist physician and take great pride in my work.>>

Are you being effective or productive by butting heads? If not, why are you doing it? You cannot attract flies with vinegar.

If you do not care about being effective and persuasive, go ahead and butting heads. It may give you emotional satisfaction. But, how does that helps you to advance your cause?

Do not waste your time and energy on unproductive action. Especially, besides not helping, you are turning people off.

KlangFool

KlangFool
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by KlangFool » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:47 am

masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:41 am
KlangFool wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:39 am
masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:26 am
I just have a very hard time sucking up, even if it will result in a pay increase. Anyone else feel the same?
masonstone,

You have a lousy attitude. You need a mental adjustment. Your job is to make your boss look good in front of his boss. So, what has this got to do with sucking up?

KlangFool
That's the thing I don't consider the C-suite folks my boss. Just admins that are overpaid. And my job is definitely not to make them look good in-front of their boss. I couldn't care less about that.
masonstone,

If you do not care, why waste your time being angry with them?

Do you yell at a barking dog? Don't you have better thing to do with your time?

KlangFool

masonstone
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by masonstone » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:48 am

KlangFool wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:45 am
masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:38 am
Pinotage wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:31 am
How much more money do you need, and why would you need to become a sycophant to get it?

Serious questions.
I don't "need" more money. DW and I make about 900k/year (combined). There's a ripe opportunity for me to increase my income by 200-300K (from 400k to 700k) but it has caused me to be more cautious at work instead of butting heads, even when the C Suite people piss me off. That's bothering me. I'm a sub-specialist physician and take great pride in my work.
masonstone,

When you asked the wrong question, you will never get the right answer!

<<it has caused me to be more cautious at work instead of butting heads, even when the C Suite people piss me off. That's bothering me. I'm a sub-specialist physician and take great pride in my work.>>

Are you being effective or productive by butting heads? If not, why are you doing it? You cannot attract flies with vinegar.

If you do not care about being effective and persuasive, go ahead and butting heads. It may give you emotional satisfaction. But, how does that helps you to advance your cause?

Do not waste your time and energy on unproductive action. Especially, besides not helping, you are turning people off.

KlangFool
It's a matter of pride, and I agree it might not be worth butting heads. But it still bothers me that I'm giving them a pass on these sorts of things.

KlangFool
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by KlangFool » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:54 am

masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:48 am

It's a matter of pride, and I agree it might not be worth butting heads. But it still bothers me that I'm giving them a pass on these sorts of things.

masonstone,

Is it your job? If yes, you should have the power to deal with it. If you do not have the authority and power to hold them accountable, it is not your job. Then, you could only persuade them to do the right thing. How could you persuade anyone by butting heads?

<<I don't "need" more money. DW and I make about 900k/year (combined)>>

But, you need the income. When you are FI, you can tell all those folks to go and fly kites. You can choose not to be part of their organization.

KlangFool

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JoMoney
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by JoMoney » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:56 am

masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:26 am
I just have a very hard time sucking up, even if it will result in a pay increase. Anyone else feel the same?
Sure, but if not "sucking up" means you're making waves you better have something else that makes it a bigger problem letting you go than keep you around.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham

runner3081
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by runner3081 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:04 am

masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:26 am
I just have a very hard time sucking up, even if it will result in a pay increase. Anyone else feel the same?
No. As long as it is not illegal, immoral or unethical, I will do what is needed to make more money. My future self will thank me.

With that said, I don't really try to suck up, or even think about it. I go to work, build strong relationships, work hard and get everything done that needs to be done.

The rest, well, it has always taken care of itself.
Last edited by runner3081 on Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

H-Town
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by H-Town » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:05 am

masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:26 am
I just have a very hard time sucking up, even if it will result in a pay increase. Anyone else feel the same?
Just do you job and follow the chain of command. At your workplace, get your work done and nothing else matters.

tim1999
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by tim1999 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:11 am

I've noticed in my company that people with positive attitudes get promoted and those with negative attitudes don't. Being positive doesn't necessarily mean "sucking up."

tibbitts
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by tibbitts » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:12 am

masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:41 am
KlangFool wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:39 am
masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:26 am
I just have a very hard time sucking up, even if it will result in a pay increase. Anyone else feel the same?
masonstone,

You have a lousy attitude. You need a mental adjustment. Your job is to make your boss look good in front of his boss. So, what has this got to do with sucking up?

KlangFool
That's the thing I don't consider the C-suite folks my boss. Just admins that are overpaid. And my job is definitely not to make them look good in-front of their boss. I couldn't care less about that.
I don't understand that sentiment, but the resolution is for you need to become the C-suite folks. But not with some sort of long-term plan, just find somewhere you can be completely in charge immediately. Maybe that's where you work now, maybe somewhere else, but you're obviously very unhappy and need to change your circumstances. Luckily with your background, you can probably be "in charge" somewhere within a day or two... well maybe a business day or two, since it's Saturday.

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darkhorse346
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by darkhorse346 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:30 am

Thou shall not suck for the buck.

Your work ethic, results, and character are what matter. Deep down, everybody knows this.

I'd rather have respectful disagreement and debate among employees to get the best ideas as opposed to a bunch of suck ups. Independent thought and judgement is what employers should pay for, not brown nosing. Brown nosers and suckups do not add value; they are a drain on a company's finances and most importantly, culture. Bosses who like suckups are insecure and need that false reassurance and validation that suckups provide.

'Tis better to be correct than politically correct. Ultimately, you've got to live with yourself.

nguy44
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by nguy44 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:34 am

masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:26 am
I just have a very hard time sucking up, even if it will result in a pay increase. Anyone else feel the same?
My suggestion, which can be freely ignored as desired: look at the big, long term picture. The pay increase will hopefully help towards achieving one or more of your goals. As long as you have to work for someone else, there will be "sucking up" times.

Also, "sucking up" varies by definition and personality. Some folks feel that any agreement with their management is "sucking up".

Unless you are being asked to do something illegal or unethical - for which you are willing to take a stand and lose your job - or it is causing you serious health issues - in which case you might be better off looking for another job - consider gritting your teeth and "sucking up". Remember that "sucking up" rarely lasts forever.

My own recent example:

I had a 3rd line manager that she and I did not see eye to eye. As one of the "technical leaders" on her team, I had to grit my teeth more than once when hearing her initiatives and the goals she was directing us to. A project came along that she gave to one of her "pet" people, one that my manager thought I would do better at. I was fine with this, as (a) I had already intended to retire and wanted my last several months to be easy and with little stress, and (b) the goals of the project did not make sense to me.

But... it became obvious her "pet" person was in over their head, and just as I planned to tell them my retirement date they asked me to take over the project. I could have refused to spite management, argued bluntly about how it made no sense, or taken it but done little and made excuses about lack of progress - after all, I'm retiring, I do not need any part time work or referrals from them, and management cannot impact my retirement pay or benefits at this point - but I decided to do the professional thing and manage the project to a specific phase goal, while training two others to take it over. This meant my last several months before retirement were MUCH busier than I wanted, with a lot more travel, even up to a couple of days before I retired.

A month later, my former manager emailed me and said "look out for a nice bonus coming your way". This was above and beyond my retirement severance package, something they did not have to do since i had already left, but the 3rd line manager felt I deserved It. $25K after taxes was a very nice and completely unexpected surprise. Now I could complain that this manager is causing me more "stress" as I figure out what to do with this money, but I think I'll just "suck it up" and deal with it. :-)

Sagefemme
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by Sagefemme » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:36 am

Do what gives you the best night's sleep. If you are fretting about this as you fall asleep, it's not worth it. My two cents.

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David Jay
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by David Jay » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:37 am

tibbitts wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:12 am
...but you're obviously very unhappy and need to change your circumstances. Luckily with your background, you can probably be "in charge" somewhere within a day or two...
But then, of course, the question will be whether all the people within your organization will choose to “butt heads” with you when you make decisions for the long term good of the organization that “piss them off”.
Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future - Niels Bohr | To get the "risk premium", you really do have to take the risk - nisiprius

masonstone
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by masonstone » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:44 am

David Jay wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:37 am
tibbitts wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:12 am
...but you're obviously very unhappy and need to change your circumstances. Luckily with your background, you can probably be "in charge" somewhere within a day or two...
But then, of course, the question will be whether all the people within your organization will choose to “butt heads” with you when you make decisions for the long term good of the organization that “piss them off”.
No, their bosses are in agreement with me.

Pinotage
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by Pinotage » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:08 am

masonstone wrote:
Pinotage wrote: How much more money do you need, and why would you need to become a sycophant to get it?

Serious questions.
I don't "need" more money. DW and I make about 900k/year (combined). There's a ripe opportunity for me to increase my income by 200-300K (from 400k to 700k) but it has caused me to be more cautious at work instead of butting heads, even when the C Suite people piss me off. That's bothering me. I'm a sub-specialist physician and take great pride in my work.
OK, do you want it then? What does your future with this healthcare organization look like?
masonstone wrote: It's a matter of pride, and I agree it might not be worth butting heads. But it still bothers me that I'm giving them a pass on these sorts of things.
Pride can lead to behavioral traps. If there is true conflict (i.e. butting heads) there could be a perception amongst the C suite that you are getting a pass on some things as well.

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dm200
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by dm200 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:11 am

masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:26 am
I just have a very hard time sucking up, even if it will result in a pay increase. Anyone else feel the same?
Retired now - one of my "flaws" over my career, in several fields.

Mike Scott
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by Mike Scott » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:26 am

Sucking up to make more more is a time honored path. It's up to you to decide if it is worth it or not.

NotWhoYouThink
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:41 am

Getting along with other people, being a team player, recognizing that you are not paid in recognition for the wonderfulness of your own self, you are paid to help the organization that is paying you succeed are all good things. Griping about having to be nice to people you dislike is petty and small. But you be you.

staythecourse
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by staythecourse » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:44 am

masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:41 am
That's the thing I don't consider the C-suite folks my boss. Just admins that are overpaid. And my job is definitely not to make them look good in-front of their boss. I couldn't care less about that.
Welcome to corporate medicine. The reason it is called "corporate" is because the C-suite guys ARE your boss. That is what happens when you work in that employment structure. Your job is to practice clinical medicine and the corporate guys should and legally can not interfere with your clinical work, but they most certainly can control you in any other way just like they do the secretary or janitor. In this employment model you are no different then the secretary.

This is EXACTLY why I tell young docs they put way too much of a premium on $$$ and a discount on independence. I went solo just so I can do my own thing. I love it. I do what I want with no one to bother me.

As for your original question... I think you can bring up issues that you are unhappy about and if you are a high producer they should be more inclined to listen. The key is to phrase EVERYTHING in how it affects patient well being or care. Any change has to be centered around what is perceived a patient related issue.

In the end though they consider your production only due to them and not you since they will say they bring the patients to you and anyone in your position could do the same. Fair or not they consider all docs disposable except the ones who bring them revenue that they don't own. The only exception is if you live in an area that has a problem attracting physicians.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

uberdoc
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by uberdoc » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:50 am

This is the problem with employed physicians. We have no respect for out boss unless they are also physicians. Usually we are more ethical and also better paid then our boss. Dont suck up. Start thinking about your own private practice.

masonstone
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by masonstone » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:55 am

staythecourse wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:44 am
masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:41 am
That's the thing I don't consider the C-suite folks my boss. Just admins that are overpaid. And my job is definitely not to make them look good in-front of their boss. I couldn't care less about that.
Welcome to corporate medicine. The reason it is called "corporate" is because the C-suite guys ARE your boss. That is what happens when you work in that employment structure. Your job is to practice clinical medicine and the corporate guys should and legally can not interfere with your clinical work, but they most certainly can control you in any other way just like they do the secretary or janitor. In this employment model you are no different then the secretary.

This is EXACTLY why I tell young docs they put way too much of a premium on $$$ and a discount on independence. I went solo just so I can do my own thing. I love it. I do what I want with no one to bother me.

As for your original question... I think you can bring up issues that you are unhappy about and if you are a high producer they should be more inclined to listen. The key is to phrase EVERYTHING in how it affects patient well being or care. Any change has to be centered around what is perceived a patient related issue.

In the end though they consider your production only due to them and not you since they will say they bring the patients to you and anyone in your position could do the same. Fair or not they consider all docs disposable except the ones who bring them revenue that they don't own. The only exception is if you live in an area that has a problem attracting physicians.

Good luck.
I disagree, I never have or will consider the CEO of the hospital my boss. In fact, in the state that I live in it's illegal for any hospital to employ physicians. So no, a physician is not the same as a Janitor. However, the hospitals do control the physicians that have privileges at their site so by not butting heads it may allow my expanded reach within their hospital. Of course I can switch the hospital I have my patients go to which would also significantly affect their bottom lines.

The other disadvantage of butting heads is that the CEOs of the hospitals tend to be friendly with one another and I don't want to have the reputation of being the "difficult" doctor.
Last edited by masonstone on Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

uberdoc
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by uberdoc » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:58 am

Agree. CEO of the hospital works to facilitate my patient care work. Beyond that, they have no other role in my job.

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:01 pm

Have you ever read Jack Bogle's book "Enough"? If not, perhaps you could find a copy from your local library. Or you could start here:
At a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island, the late Kurt Vonnegut informs his pal, the author Joseph Heller, that their host, a hedge fund manager, had made more money in a single day than Heller had earned from his wildly popular novel Catch 22 over its whole history. Heller responds, “Yes, but I have something he will never have . . . Enough.”
source: https://www.vanguard.com/bogle_site/sp20070518.htm
Only you can determine when you have "enough". If you do, then why would you "suck up"? If you believe you don't, then you will probably "pucker up".
"Invest we must." -- Jack Bogle | “The purpose of investing is not to simply optimise returns and make yourself rich. The purpose is not to die poor.” -- William Bernstein

masonstone
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by masonstone » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:01 pm

uberdoc wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:58 am
Agree. CEO of the hospital works to facilitate my patient care work. Beyond that, they have no other role in my job.
Yes my main difficulty is allowing the CEO to get away with things instead of confronting them. I feel like it would benefit my pride by confronting but would hurt my bottom line.

KlangFool
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by KlangFool » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:05 pm

masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:44 am
David Jay wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:37 am
tibbitts wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:12 am
...but you're obviously very unhappy and need to change your circumstances. Luckily with your background, you can probably be "in charge" somewhere within a day or two...
But then, of course, the question will be whether all the people within your organization will choose to “butt heads” with you when you make decisions for the long term good of the organization that “piss them off”.
No, their bosses are in agreement with me.
masonstone,

Then, why do you need to butt head with them? Let their bosses deal with them.

KlangFool

uberdoc
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by uberdoc » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:06 pm

Hospital executives hate doctors. By sucking ip you will never get extra money. As a physician, you have ample opportunities to put ceo in their place. Cancel a few cases documenting lack of safety/ equipments/ staffing etc. You will see how they start sucking up to you.

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Sasquatch
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by Sasquatch » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:06 pm

Effective interaction to achieve a specific outcome. How you interact with people is not sucking up. It’s a product of effective interaction. It’s an essential tool to have positive outcomes. Often times it benefits the person you are interacting with. Each person has a unique style and temperament. You need to adjust your interaction accordingly.

masonstone
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by masonstone » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:07 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:05 pm
masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:44 am
David Jay wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:37 am
tibbitts wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:12 am
...but you're obviously very unhappy and need to change your circumstances. Luckily with your background, you can probably be "in charge" somewhere within a day or two...
But then, of course, the question will be whether all the people within your organization will choose to “butt heads” with you when you make decisions for the long term good of the organization that “piss them off”.
No, their bosses are in agreement with me.
masonstone,

Then, why do you need to butt head with them? Let their bosses deal with them.

KlangFool
Honestly its mostly pride, which I agree is not a good reason but still eats at me.

sport
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by sport » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:10 pm

masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:01 pm
uberdoc wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:58 am
Agree. CEO of the hospital works to facilitate my patient care work. Beyond that, they have no other role in my job.
Yes my main difficulty is allowing the CEO to get away with things instead of confronting them. I feel like it would benefit my pride by confronting but would hurt my bottom line.
You cannot take pride to the bank.

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:12 pm

masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:07 pm
Honestly its mostly pride, which I agree is not a good reason but still eats at me.
There's an old line that goes, "Whatever's eating you must be suffering from indigestion."

Unless someone's life is in danger, is it worth giving yourself an ulcer?
"Invest we must." -- Jack Bogle | “The purpose of investing is not to simply optimise returns and make yourself rich. The purpose is not to die poor.” -- William Bernstein

daveydoo
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by daveydoo » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:14 pm

masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:26 am
I just have a very hard time sucking up, even if it will result in a pay increase. Anyone else feel the same?
I think you should just go back to the private sector and wait 'til 2020. :D
"I mean, it's one banana, Michael...what could it cost? Ten dollars?"

masonstone
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by masonstone » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:15 pm

uberdoc wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:06 pm
Hospital executives hate doctors. By sucking ip you will never get extra money. As a physician, you have ample opportunities to put ceo in their place. Cancel a few cases documenting lack of safety/ equipments/ staffing etc. You will see how they start sucking up to you.
Trust me I've been so tempted to put them in their place, but alas, like the above poster said you can't take pride to the bank. I guess it helps to vent to fellow bogleheads :D

KlangFool
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by KlangFool » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:18 pm

masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:07 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:05 pm
masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:44 am
David Jay wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:37 am
tibbitts wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:12 am
...but you're obviously very unhappy and need to change your circumstances. Luckily with your background, you can probably be "in charge" somewhere within a day or two...
But then, of course, the question will be whether all the people within your organization will choose to “butt heads” with you when you make decisions for the long term good of the organization that “piss them off”.
No, their bosses are in agreement with me.
masonstone,

Then, why do you need to butt head with them? Let their bosses deal with them.

KlangFool
Honestly its mostly pride, which I agree is not a good reason but still eats at me.
masonstone,

If you like banging your head against the wall until it hurts, go right ahead. For me, I would rather spend my time and effort more productively. If I do not care, I do nothing. If I care, I would raise the issue with their bosses and let their bosses deal with them. They would have to listen to their bosses.

KlangFool

staythecourse
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by staythecourse » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:31 pm

masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:55 am
staythecourse wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:44 am
masonstone wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:41 am
That's the thing I don't consider the C-suite folks my boss. Just admins that are overpaid. And my job is definitely not to make them look good in-front of their boss. I couldn't care less about that.
Welcome to corporate medicine. The reason it is called "corporate" is because the C-suite guys ARE your boss. That is what happens when you work in that employment structure. Your job is to practice clinical medicine and the corporate guys should and legally can not interfere with your clinical work, but they most certainly can control you in any other way just like they do the secretary or janitor. In this employment model you are no different then the secretary.

This is EXACTLY why I tell young docs they put way too much of a premium on $$$ and a discount on independence. I went solo just so I can do my own thing. I love it. I do what I want with no one to bother me.

As for your original question... I think you can bring up issues that you are unhappy about and if you are a high producer they should be more inclined to listen. The key is to phrase EVERYTHING in how it affects patient well being or care. Any change has to be centered around what is perceived a patient related issue.

In the end though they consider your production only due to them and not you since they will say they bring the patients to you and anyone in your position could do the same. Fair or not they consider all docs disposable except the ones who bring them revenue that they don't own. The only exception is if you live in an area that has a problem attracting physicians.

Good luck.
I disagree, I never have or will consider the CEO of the hospital my boss. In fact, in the state that I live in it's illegal for any hospital to employ physicians. So no, a physician is not the same as a Janitor. However, the hospitals do control the physicians that have privileges at their site so by not butting heads it may allow my expanded reach within their hospital. Of course I can switch the hospital I have my patients go to which would also significantly affect their bottom lines.

The other disadvantage of butting heads is that the CEOs of the hospitals tend to be friendly with one another and I don't want to have the reputation of being the "difficult" doctor.
Okay maybe I misunderstood. Are you employed by coporate medicine or not? If you are private are you employed by a bigger group or you a share holder in your practice? Some more clarification is in order to give a more specific answer. I've been in employed and partner in a large single specialty group, am currently solo, wife worked in corporate medicine, and now she is in a concierage private practice job so in the end I have seen EVERY type of employment that a physician can have personally so can tell it ALL depends on your employment situation.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

staythecourse
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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by staythecourse » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:33 pm

uberdoc wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:58 am
Agree. CEO of the hospital works to facilitate my patient care work. Beyond that, they have no other role in my job.
How are you employed? That will give you the answer what would happen if you piss off the CEO. Trust me I have seen every situation play out.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

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Re: Sucking up to make more money?

Post by LadyGeek » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:49 pm

This thread has run its course and is locked (rant). See: Personal Finance
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