HSA Rollover

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harmoniousmonk
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HSA Rollover

Post by harmoniousmonk » Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:41 am

I currently have an employer sponsored HSA that each month I receive a statement increasing my balance by 0.29$. Not even worth the price of a stamp. I get 0.07% interest and have no investment options.

Does anyone have any experience with a HSA to HSA rollover? I found this information https://thefinancebuff.com/how-to-rollo ... r-fee.html but not a lot of information about this type of rollover on the internet.

Thanks.
Monk

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hoppy08520
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by hoppy08520 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:05 pm

See wiki, look in Transfer/Rollover section:

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Health_savings_account

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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:25 pm

This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (rollover).
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

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jhfenton
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by jhfenton » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:40 pm

harmoniousmonk wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:41 am
I currently have an employer sponsored HSA that each month I receive a statement increasing my balance by 0.29$. Not even worth the price of a stamp. I get 0.07% interest and have no investment options.

Does anyone have any experience with a HSA to HSA rollover? I found this information https://thefinancebuff.com/how-to-rollo ... r-fee.html but not a lot of information about this type of rollover on the internet.

Thanks.
Monk
I do a trustee-to-trustee (T2T) transfer of my newly-deposited HSA money from my employer-sonsored HSA to my Lively HSA account about every quarter. I am lucky that my employer custodian does not charge for transfers. You can do T2T transfers as often as you like. You can also do a rollover by withdrawing the money and redepositing it in another HSA within 60 days. That kind of a rollover you can only do once every 12 months.

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harmoniousmonk
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by harmoniousmonk » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:57 pm

With Lively, it looks like with the investment option account the fee is 2.50 per month. You like the investment options? Looks like a bunch of td ameritrade fund options. You happy with that?

I googled up best HSa options for investing and this site came up https://www.doughroller.net/insurance/h ... -accounts/.

They touted healthequity, hsaauthority, and selectaccount as the best.

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harmoniousmonk
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by harmoniousmonk » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:04 am

Bump for the morning crew

tenkuky
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by tenkuky » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:24 am

I will be doing the indirect rollover from HealthEquity to Lively today. Once a year good enough for me.
I’ll post the experience. At least on paper, I’ve got it down.
HealthEquity has asset-based fees and cash drag due to minimums for investing which I don’t like. And it charges a $25 transfer fee so I’m going this route even though slightly more tedious.
And I do like the SPDR ETFs TD offers. Will 3-fund it with SPTM, SPAB, SPDW.
Low ERs, see here..
https://us.spdrs.com/en/strategies/spdr ... folio-etfs

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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by susa » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:20 am

harmoniousmonk wrote: a statement increasing my balance by 0.29
We moved from Health Equity to Connexus Credit Union (anyone can join) which pays 2.00% interest monthly.

Connexus took care of all details for the move. We did pay 25.00 to HE to close account but no other fees to anyone.

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LucyB
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by LucyB » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:40 am

We use Health Savings Administrators at healthsavings.com and it offers Vanguard funds as well as others. It charges an annual fee that you would need to compare to other custodians.
The above comments are merely an expression of personal opinion and should not be considered advice in any form—tax, legal, financial or otherwise.

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jhfenton
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by jhfenton » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:58 am

harmoniousmonk wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:57 pm
With Lively, it looks like with the investment option account the fee is 2.50 per month. You like the investment options? Looks like a bunch of td ameritrade fund options. You happy with that?

I googled up best HSa options for investing and this site came up https://www.doughroller.net/insurance/h ... -accounts/.

They touted healthequity, hsaauthority, and selectaccount as the best.
For investing, Lively seems to be the best option. It is cheaper and more flexible than any of their recommendations. The only cost is $2.50/month from a linked checking account (i.e., not precious HSA money). You get a no-fee TD Ameritrade brokerage account with reasonable commission-free ETF offerings. (The SPDR Core Portfolio ETFs provide dirt-cheap exposure to all of the main asset classes.) Lively customer service is great. Account creation and setup is a snap. I am a very happy customer.

I haven't seriously investigated the best spending HSA. That probably isn't Lively due to low interest rates on cash balances.

Note: It looks like that article based its recommendations on M*'s study of HSAs. Lively was too new to be included in the M* study.

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harmoniousmonk
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by harmoniousmonk » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:45 am

Thanks guys.

I would be interested in hearing about how the rollover goes.

I'm waiting for the 8 am PST open time to give them a call.

mogg
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by mogg » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:45 pm

A trustee to trustee rollover from HealthEquity to Lively takes about 15 business days and is free - HealthEquity doesn't charge a transfer-out fee as long as you don't close your account. After the rollover completes, I transfer the funds to TDAmeritrade and purchase SPTM.

As diehards, we look for the lowest cost HSA's, which are Lively and Saturna, both of which are less expensive than healthequity, hsaauthority, and selectaccount. My employer subsidizes my healthequity account, and it is still more expensive than Lively. Lively is very smooth, while Saturna is slightly cheaper and old school (e.g. you mail in a 30 page application, have to call them to move money around). Lively on the other hand has a nice online interface and can do electronic signatures for completely online trustee to trustee transfers.

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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by tenkuky » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:38 am

mogg wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:45 pm
A trustee to trustee rollover from HealthEquity to Lively takes about 15 business days and is free - HealthEquity doesn't charge a transfer-out fee as long as you don't close your account. After the rollover completes, I transfer the funds to TDAmeritrade and purchase SPTM.

As diehards, we look for the lowest cost HSA's, which are Lively and Saturna, both of which are less expensive than healthequity, hsaauthority, and selectaccount. My employer subsidizes my healthequity account, and it is still more expensive than Lively. Lively is very smooth, while Saturna is slightly cheaper and old school (e.g. you mail in a 30 page application, have to call them to move money around). Lively on the other hand has a nice online interface and can do electronic signatures for completely online trustee to trustee transfers.
This is not universal but employer account dependent. I have a $25 fee for rollover regardless if account is left open at HealthEquity. Thus I chose the indirect aka distribution route.
Agree with you on Lively on all counts.

tenkuky
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by tenkuky » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:43 am

harmoniousmonk wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:45 am
Thanks guys.

I would be interested in hearing about how the rollover goes.

I'm waiting for the 8 am PST open time to give them a call.
I am here with an update, and it is very annoying on HealthEquity's end :annoyed
Despite being on chat with them and processing the request for a distribution (annotated and commented by me for Rollover purposes), they froze the transfer and my account, claiming it was "fraud". No communication with me and no reason given.
I had to call, have the rep manually walk me through a 15 min ordeal and they had changed my email and password and userID, all of which had to be reset. And it still didn't unfreeze as the "fraud division" has to take it from there.

This is their way of wanting you to use the transfer process for Rollover, which they charge $25 each time (for our vendor agreement).
On principle, I won't pay them for this, but it has been a heck of a morning :oops:
Stay tuned. I am hopeful the Lively route is smoother.

zeugmite
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by zeugmite » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:36 pm

tenkuky wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:43 am
I am here with an update, and it is very annoying on HealthEquity's end :annoyed
Despite being on chat with them and processing the request for a distribution (annotated and commented by me for Rollover purposes), they froze the transfer and my account, claiming it was "fraud". No communication with me and no reason given.
I had to call, have the rep manually walk me through a 15 min ordeal and they had changed my email and password and userID, all of which had to be reset. And it still didn't unfreeze as the "fraud division" has to take it from there.

This is their way of wanting you to use the transfer process for Rollover, which they charge $25 each time (for our vendor agreement).
On principle, I won't pay them for this, but it has been a heck of a morning :oops:
Stay tuned. I am hopeful the Lively route is smoother.
Any updates? And what is the 'distribution' route? For HealthEquity, I only see reimbursement for medical expense as the only option of taking any money out. Is that what they call 'fraud'? How did you distribute otherwise?

Their interest is low enough that if you have more than around $10k in the account it may not be worthwhile to wait for rollover rather than just eating the $25 to be able to take the money out quickly.

tenkuky
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by tenkuky » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:33 am

zeugmite wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:36 pm
tenkuky wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:43 am
I am here with an update, and it is very annoying on HealthEquity's end :annoyed
Despite being on chat with them and processing the request for a distribution (annotated and commented by me for Rollover purposes), they froze the transfer and my account, claiming it was "fraud". No communication with me and no reason given.
I had to call, have the rep manually walk me through a 15 min ordeal and they had changed my email and password and userID, all of which had to be reset. And it still didn't unfreeze as the "fraud division" has to take it from there.

This is their way of wanting you to use the transfer process for Rollover, which they charge $25 each time (for our vendor agreement).
On principle, I won't pay them for this, but it has been a heck of a morning :oops:
Stay tuned. I am hopeful the Lively route is smoother.
Any updates? And what is the 'distribution' route? For HealthEquity, I only see reimbursement for medical expense as the only option of taking any money out. Is that what they call 'fraud'? How did you distribute otherwise?

Their interest is low enough that if you have more than around $10k in the account it may not be worthwhile to wait for rollover rather than just eating the $25 to be able to take the money out quickly.
So this is what happened...
HealthEquity gave variable information each and everytime I reached out. Finally, I confirmed the way to do without paying a fee (at least for me) was to take a distribution. There is no option for that so take as reimbursement. It is complicated but I figured out the steps:
1. Go to the “Claims & Payments” tab.
2. Click on “Request Reimbursement”.
3. Payment made from HSA (Or other appropriate option if applicable)
4. Enter Claim Record & Send Payment, click “Next”.
5. Click “Reimburse Me” and “Next”.
6. Select “New Expense”
7. Put Rollover Distribution in the “New Provider” field, and enter the date.
8. Choose your method of reimbursement.
9. Enter the amount for reimbursement.
10. Authorize/Submit.

You should have linked your bank account with the HE account previously so the monies go through ACH.
Now came the $#*@ part from HE. They were informed about this, I have copies of chats, they made notations. And they proceeded to code it as fraud and froze my account without getting in touch with me! It took me 48 hours to unwind and I filed a complaint. Their excuse was "it's a large amount and we were being cautious". They apologized. Finally got the monies in.
They will have to issue a tax document but I will show it was a rollover distribution as exact same money was put next day into Lively.

The Lively end is a breeze and can be done on their website. Took about 2-3 days to get there and then another 1-2 days to transfer to the TD portion.

Hope this helps!

megabad
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by megabad » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:41 pm

Please be aware that you can only do this type of rollover once per year. Consider a trustee to trustee transfer to avoid this limit.

zeugmite
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by zeugmite » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:24 pm

tenkuky wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:33 am
So this is what happened...
HealthEquity gave variable information each and everytime I reached out. Finally, I confirmed the way to do without paying a fee (at least for me) was to take a distribution. There is no option for that so take as reimbursement. It is complicated but I figured out the steps:
1. Go to the “Claims & Payments” tab.
2. Click on “Request Reimbursement”.
3. Payment made from HSA (Or other appropriate option if applicable)
4. Enter Claim Record & Send Payment, click “Next”.
5. Click “Reimburse Me” and “Next”.
6. Select “New Expense”
7. Put Rollover Distribution in the “New Provider” field, and enter the date.
8. Choose your method of reimbursement.
9. Enter the amount for reimbursement.
10. Authorize/Submit.

You should have linked your bank account with the HE account previously so the monies go through ACH.
Now came the $#*@ part from HE. They were informed about this, I have copies of chats, they made notations. And they proceeded to code it as fraud and froze my account without getting in touch with me! It took me 48 hours to unwind and I filed a complaint. Their excuse was "it's a large amount and we were being cautious". They apologized. Finally got the monies in.
They will have to issue a tax document but I will show it was a rollover distribution as exact same money was put next day into Lively.

The Lively end is a breeze and can be done on their website. Took about 2-3 days to get there and then another 1-2 days to transfer to the TD portion.

Hope this helps!
Thanks, if you wouldn't mind, what did you choose for "Claim Type"? The only one that seems possible is "Unknown". It's unbelievable that HealthEquity doesn't allow rollover distributions as an option openly.

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Thrifty Femme
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by Thrifty Femme » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:31 pm

zeugmite wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:24 pm

Thanks, if you wouldn't mind, what did you choose for "Claim Type"? The only one that seems possible is "Unknown". It's unbelievable that HealthEquity doesn't allow rollover distributions as an option openly.
HealthEquity sucks. They deliberately make it hard to leave. It took months to get my damn money out of there :annoyed

zeugmite
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by zeugmite » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:54 pm

Thrifty Femme wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:31 pm
HealthEquity sucks. They deliberately make it hard to leave. It took months to get my damn money out of there :annoyed
Agreed. What was the cause in your case?

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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by Spirit Rider » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:43 am

megabad wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:41 pm
Please be aware that you can only do this type of rollover once per year. Consider a trustee to trustee transfer to avoid this limit.
Actually, it is once per 12 month elapsed period, not based on a calendar year.

Also, most HSA custodians charge $20 - $25 for a trustee -> trustee transfer. Rollovers are usually free.

tenkuky
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by tenkuky » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:20 am

I used unknown as type.
Regarding other comments, agreed that HE makes it hard because they are trying to (at least for me) push to the transfer which is $25 each time.
Well planned once a year rollovers are good enough for a BH like me and now I know how, makes it easier.
Also they used scare tactics like “you will get your IRS paperwork after April 15 if you don’t go transfer” etc.
Lively said humbug.

I will rinse and repeat next August.

megabad
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by megabad » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:21 am

Spirit Rider wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:43 am
megabad wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:41 pm
Please be aware that you can only do this type of rollover once per year. Consider a trustee to trustee transfer to avoid this limit.
Actually, it is once per 12 month elapsed period, not based on a calendar year.

Also, most HSA custodians charge $20 - $25 for a trustee -> trustee transfer. Rollovers are usually free.
Thanks for the clarification on 12 months. There apparently is no consistency with fees. My last provider charged for both. My current provider charges for neither. With no fee I prefer trustee to trustee since, in my case, I was allowed to transfer investments in kind (multiple times). Before this provider I didn't even know that was possible. Otherwise, I would have had a bigger state tax bill that year. Actually, in my case, the state tax bill probably would have dwarfed just about any reasonable fee.

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Thrifty Femme
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by Thrifty Femme » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:22 pm

zeugmite wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:54 pm
Agreed. What was the cause in your case?
I submitted a request to close the account, which was rejected because the funds weren't liquidated. So I did liquidated the account, and then they just took their sweet time sending the funds to Lively. I will never do business with them again if I have a choice.

tenkuky
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by tenkuky » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:43 pm

See BBB report on HealthEquity. While I didn't file a complaint myself, my experience led me to inform my employer they should explore other options, and they actually will be looking at other vendors next year. Much like advocating for changes in 401k/403b vendors that boarders guide on, you have to vote with your wallet.
https://www.bbb.org/us/ut/draper/profil ... er-reviews

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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by zeugmite » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:58 pm

tenkuky wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:20 am
I used unknown as type.
Regarding other comments, agreed that HE makes it hard because they are trying to (at least for me) push to the transfer which is $25 each time.
Well planned once a year rollovers are good enough for a BH like me and now I know how, makes it easier.
Also they used scare tactics like “you will get your IRS paperwork after April 15 if you don’t go transfer” etc.
Lively said humbug.

I will rinse and repeat next August.
Looks like they've changed it so that you can never remove the last $25 from the account. Going through the distribution process (even for expense purposes, I am assuming), I get the notice:
Your request exceeds the amount available for distribution. An account closure fee of $25.00 is held in reserve from your account and may not be used for reimbursement. Please revise the amount requested.
So they steal $25 no matter what.

zeugmite
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by zeugmite » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:28 pm

Update on HealthEquity. They've been overcharging fees for months when I've had the minimum balance to waive fees. When I discovered it they only refunded the last month's fee but dragged their feet on prior months, making all sorts of ridiculous excuses. Only when I contacted my state's AG office did they suddenly spring into action, and then still shortchanged by one month's fee and stopped responding to emails. I got so tired of them I just took that loss plus the last $25 that they will never give back to you, and got all my money out via the rollover method.

Their reps are all very polite (but firm in inaction) and their website is great, but it's just a façade over a rotten way of doing business. Stay away from this outfit.

strbrd
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by strbrd » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:12 pm

Hijacking, but: I have a HealthEquity account that is currently getting pass-through payments from my (federal) insurer. I have an old HSA Bank account with only about 1k in it that is currently not being charged any fees (all funds are uninvested). However, I can't figure out why I'm not being charged fees because I can't find the fee schedule and they only have an abbreviated fee schedule online.

My inclination was to transfer the 1k from HSA Bank to Health Equity. Is this stupid? Should I be doing the opposite? Thanks.

oslocal
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by oslocal » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:58 pm

tenkuky wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:33 am
zeugmite wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:36 pm
tenkuky wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:43 am
I am here with an update, and it is very annoying on HealthEquity's end :annoyed
Despite being on chat with them and processing the request for a distribution (annotated and commented by me for Rollover purposes), they froze the transfer and my account, claiming it was "fraud". No communication with me and no reason given.
I had to call, have the rep manually walk me through a 15 min ordeal and they had changed my email and password and userID, all of which had to be reset. And it still didn't unfreeze as the "fraud division" has to take it from there.

This is their way of wanting you to use the transfer process for Rollover, which they charge $25 each time (for our vendor agreement).
On principle, I won't pay them for this, but it has been a heck of a morning :oops:
Stay tuned. I am hopeful the Lively route is smoother.
Any updates? And what is the 'distribution' route? For HealthEquity, I only see reimbursement for medical expense as the only option of taking any money out. Is that what they call 'fraud'? How did you distribute otherwise?

Their interest is low enough that if you have more than around $10k in the account it may not be worthwhile to wait for rollover rather than just eating the $25 to be able to take the money out quickly.
So this is what happened...
HealthEquity gave variable information each and everytime I reached out. Finally, I confirmed the way to do without paying a fee (at least for me) was to take a distribution. There is no option for that so take as reimbursement. It is complicated but I figured out the steps:
1. Go to the “Claims & Payments” tab.
2. Click on “Request Reimbursement”.
3. Payment made from HSA (Or other appropriate option if applicable)
4. Enter Claim Record & Send Payment, click “Next”.
5. Click “Reimburse Me” and “Next”.
6. Select “New Expense”
7. Put Rollover Distribution in the “New Provider” field, and enter the date.
8. Choose your method of reimbursement.
9. Enter the amount for reimbursement.
10. Authorize/Submit.

You should have linked your bank account with the HE account previously so the monies go through ACH.
Now came the $#*@ part from HE. They were informed about this, I have copies of chats, they made notations. And they proceeded to code it as fraud and froze my account without getting in touch with me! It took me 48 hours to unwind and I filed a complaint. Their excuse was "it's a large amount and we were being cautious". They apologized. Finally got the monies in.
They will have to issue a tax document but I will show it was a rollover distribution as exact same money was put next day into Lively.

The Lively end is a breeze and can be done on their website. Took about 2-3 days to get there and then another 1-2 days to transfer to the TD portion.

Hope this helps!
I understand the mechanics of this will be something like:
A. Take distribution into account
B. Fund new HSA with the distribution amount

My questions are:
1. How does Health Equity report this to IRS? Is there a difference between a rollover distribution and a normal health distribution on 1099-SA?
2. How do I report this to IRS? Same way as if it was a normal distribution for health care and just keep paperwork showing the "receipt" which in this case is the contribution to Fidelity?

Spirit Rider
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by Spirit Rider » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:42 pm

  1. An indirect rollover is a normally coded distribution followed by a contribution treated as a rollover.
  2. This is reported on Form 8889.

LetItRide
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by LetItRide » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:21 pm

I did a direct HSA rollover to Fidelity (no fees). The fidelity website has "account transfer" forms which you fill out and fidelity will take care of the rest. Other brokers may same similar features but I only know about fidelity.

Spirit Rider
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Re: HSA Rollover

Post by Spirit Rider » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:28 pm

LetItRide wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:21 pm
I did a direct HSA rollover to Fidelity (no fees). The fidelity website has "account transfer" forms which you fill out and fidelity will take care of the rest. Other brokers may same similar features but I only know about fidelity.
There are only two options with an HSA. Indirect rollovers or trustee -> trustee transfers. Most custodians charge $20 - $25 for the latter.

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