Will you pay for your kids' college/graduate education?

[cockersx3]

We still have some time to decide. Most likely, I'll cover costs up to State U. levels. If either of my kids gets into a school in the top 6 or so, I'd be inclined to cover that. Grad school would be on them, unless we're very rich.

This is what we have decided to do for our daughters, the oldest of which will be starting her sophomore year in a few weeks. Our funding their college is contingent on maintaining good grades and enrolling in a major that has a plausible route to a job after graduation.

One element of this I am concerned about is the number of other parents doing something similar. In my state, competition for the flagship State U is obscenely high, and I have heard stories of near-straight-A students not getting accepted. Have heard anecdotally of similar stories in other states. I suspect that this is related to other parents taking the same road as we have. Not sure what that promise will mean if there are no decent state schools that will accept her...

The other aspect of it is that we are not pushing the idea. She does not yet have a clear idea of what she wants to go to college for, so we have told her that our promise to pay for StateU doesn't expire when she graduates. If she chooses to get a full-time job (in conjunction with moving out, of course) or (as is more likely in her case) enlisting in the military, that offer will be waiting for her when she is ready. She is aware of how valuable that opportunity is and does not want to waste it, which is a good sign of innate responsibility I think.

[Bacchus01]

UW Madison is about $10,500 for tuition/fees for instate. It's a top 25 world university, and is inside the Top 25-50 in nearly every major discipline.

You're right, in-state flagship Us are still pretty reasonable.

And I don't think graduating college with $30K in student loans (about the average) is in any way hard on people. People take out car loans for much more than that.

Now, if you want to go out of state for a history degree (nothing wrong with history) and pay $75K/year all-in, and then complain because you are now $200K in student loan debt and can only find a job paying $35K a year.....well, rational decision making is probably not your strength.

Great news! You can't do that! Students are limited in what they can borrow, it would be hard to graduate with more than about $30K in debt. Parents can borrow substantially more through Parent Plus loans, or could even co-sign commercial loans for their students. But that would be the parents' (stupid) decision and responsibility.

Private student loans do not have those low limits. You can get much higher debt.

[NotWhoYouThink]

Which would have to be co-signed.

[Bacchus01]

Which would have to be co-signed.

And?

[bampf]

And, I am not funding a french romantic literature degree. STEM or something marketable. Not saying they can't go get that, but, thats on them if they want it.

I took a different approach and told my daughters to follow their hearts and not just their heads. My younger daughter has a PhD in the humanities which has worked out just fine. I am happy that I gave her this advice and happy that I funded her undergrad studies in the humanities. She could have easily excelled in a stem field as she took AP math and science in high school and graduated in the top 2 percent of her class.

Yeah, I hear you. And really if thats what they really wanted to do, I would fund it because I am a big softie. I just worry that they won't be able to have the same choices for their kids unless they go all the way to the PhD level. So, I take the position that I pay for a marketable degree and then I see what they do. If they came to me and said I love latin, its all I want to do, then I would help them and worry and set aside more of my retirement for their kids. Shh. Don't tell.

[3funder]

Yes.

529 Plan + Cash Flow should hopefully be enough for 100% of undergrad for both kids.

Assisting with any graduate studies will depend on our situation.

+1.

[3504PIR]

We are paying 100%. Our daughter is attending a private university with about 40% of costs covered by scholarships and the remainder is paid by us. I had the opportunity to go to school with my parents paying and think it really helped me get off to a good start. We want our daughter to have the same opportunity. I think the skin in the game is dependent on the individual. We’ve spoken about the advantage of starting out without debt and she has a good grasp on how to live within her means and save. She has a part time job in her career field and is contributing to an IRA.

We saved enough in a 529 to cover most of a state school education and about 2.5 years of her private cost. We cash flowed the first 2 years and are using the 529 for the last 2 years as we will be retired as she heads into her junior year. So far so good.

[KlangFool]

OP,

Let's assume that college education costs about 30K per year per kid. So, it is about 30K X 4 = 120K per kid.

1) Will you pay the full 120K for your kid, if

A) Your net worth when your kid goes to school is 120K? Aka, 1X? 240K? What is your number?

Or,

B) You would gladly sleep on the street and starve and pay the amount.

2) Is the amount that you are willing to pay is equal to a percentage of your net worth? Or, it is priceless and you will re-mortgage your house to pay for college education?

Please find your answer ahead of time.

I know my answer. I have 2 kids. The number is 240K for 2 kids. I would only pay the full amount when my net worth excluding the house is 1.2 million. Aka, 5X.

KlangFool

[NotWhoYouThink]

Which would have to be co-signed.

And?

And kids can't get into that kind of debt on their own for an undergraduate degree. If someone, usually a parent, doesn't co-sign they just can't do it. That's it, I didn't have any other larger point.

[Stinky]

I'm curious how much will you support your kids.

If yes, to what extent? Part of tuition, in-state full tuition, private university tuition, living expenses?

Edited again

We paid full in-state tuition plus living expenses. Three children, five years each. For three years, I had three in college at the same time. Giant cash-sucking-sound, thankfully it ended in 2007 when college tuition was a little cheaper.

My dad paid for my college, so I got out of college without debt. That's the least that I can do for my children. Hope that my children can do it for my grandchildren. Pass it along.....

[joeblow]

Wow! So many diverse viewpoints. Need to find time to go back and review them all. But to answer the question...

Put us in the "most likely" category:

I always assumed no. I received an athletic scholarship for undergrad and paid my way through graduate school and law school.

Wife always assumed yes. Her parents paid for her schooling for both undergrad and graduate school.

At some point in the last few years we just decided to pre-pay tuition for instate school expenses. So the basics are already covered. We sort of view that as a supplemental insurance plan if something should happen to us.

We plan to reach the FI state of FIRE by the time the first kid goes to college, so presumably we will pay for any shortcomings with cashflow or savings. Kind of hard to plan to save multiple millions of dollars and not help with school expenses. If it's that close, we'll just work another year or two.

[msk]

Problem with merit-based assessments (athletic or academic or however) is that the kid with the least abilities is the one who needs help the most. Society chooses to mostly ignore such weak kids because society benefits the most from those with the greatest abilities. But it's your kid... It's also an unfortunate truism that the kid who is least deserving (your choice as to how to judge deserving) is the one you will spend the most on. Life is never clear cut.

[HIinvestor]

We paid for both our kids to attend private U. For S, he got 1/2 tuition merit award, so it wasn’t as painful as expected. D took 3 semesters at CCollege (practically free) and transferred to the private U where she was full pay.
S graduated and had 3 job offers in his field by Feb of SR year. He’s been happily working in his field since graduation. So far, he’s not interested in grad school even tho his work would pay.
D is happily using skills and her degree and friends she’s networked with to build her career.
We have no regrets.
We saved some, I created a full-time job to help pay kids’ ed expenses and cash-flowed. The U let folks sign up for a payment where you paid over 10 months that helped with the cash flow too. It was huge raise in discretionary income when they were done with school and mortgage was done!
We are so glad they graduated debt free.

[ks289]

Huh? The only physician in my extended family, a cousin, attended a CC before transferring to a little known State U...and graduating with a degree in "liberal studies". He's now a gastroenterologist. Of the 3 members of my staff that left in the past year to attend medical school, one of them started at a CC and is now on a very significant scholarship at Baylor Med.

They are NOT CC grads. Look at their diplomas they are grads of whatever school the transferred to. I am pretty sure you knew that already and just wanted to debate. Look at my post I said "CC grad". That is NOT the same as going to CC and transferring and GRADUATING from another college.

Good luck.

So you accept that beginning at a CC to save money does not impact one's ability to get into medical school, therefore, your point is what?

My point is that doing 2 years of CC alone because that is what you can afford to send your kid vs. paying (which you may not be able to) for additional 2 years would limit one's employment opportunity.

Good luck.

You are making a point that nobody has, will, or can dispute; so, no point at all. Saving (possibly) tens of thousands by attending a CC initially does not impair one's chances of becoming a physician at all.

Staythecourse is correct in stating that it is more difficult to be accepted to medical school when taking medical school prerequisites at a community college. Medical school admissions offices make this clear to applicants that they do not view coursework taken at community colleges as equally rigorous to those taken at 4 year colleges.

SUNY Upstate College of Medicine
http://www.upstate.edu/com/admissions/faqs.php
“Applicants should avoid taking more than one or two prerequisite science courses during the summer and avoid taking them at community colleges.”

Ichan School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
http://icahn.mssm.edu/education/medical ... quirements
Q: Can I take my courses at a community college, or must I take them at a four-year college or university?
A: We have no requirement about where you take courses, though the Committee on Admissions does take that into consideration in evaluating your application.

Johns Hopkins Medical School
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/som/admi ... ments.html
The School of Medicine accepts prerequisites completed at the community college level. In order to be competitive in the selection process, we encourage prospective applicants with community college prerequisites to supplement these courses by taking advanced courses in related subjects at their four year institution.

University of Florida College of Medicine
http://admissions.med.ufl.edu/faq/#community_college
Q: Can I take the prerequisite courses at my local community/junior college?
A: In order to create the most academically competitive application you should take all prerequisite courses at the most competitive bachelor’s degree granting institution where you can gain entrance. You should try to complete your pre-requisite courses at a four-year institution

Albert Einstein College of Medicine
https://www.einstein.yu.edu/educati...p ... ments.aspx
Whereas course work at a four-year college or university is our benchmark, if a student chooses to meet a competency component via an alternate route such as through laboratory experience, through an advanced placement course, a course taken at a community college, a course taken abroad (during a semester abroad for which the undergraduate U.S. degree-granting institution gives credit, or for which AMCAS will verify and report the grade), or an online course, he or she should seek guidance from his or her advisor to ensure that the option meets the above guidelines as well as the rigorous academic standard required by the Albert Einstein College of Medicine.

George Washington University
http://smhs.gwu.edu/academics/md-progra ... itycollege
Do you accept community college credits?
Yes. The Committee on Admissions does accept coursework taken at a community college; however, it is preferable to have the pre-medical coursework taken at a four-year college or university.

Florida State University College of Medicine
http://med.fsu.edu/?page=mdAdmissions.a ... equirement
Listed below is the pre-requisite coursework required for all matriculates to the FSU COM. Advanced Placement, CLEP, and dual enrollment credits fulfill the course requirements. However, courses taken in a traditional classroom at a four-year institution are considered to be more academically competitive.

[macman_65]

I've told my kids that I wouldl cover the cost of a state school (tuition/room/board) 100%.

If they go somewhere that costs less they can have the difference to use how they want.
My oldest daughter did this and had money left over to use for her wedding and cover part of her Master's degree.

If they go somewhere that costs more, then the difference will be up to them to fund.

[Bacchus01]

Problem with merit-based assessments (athletic or academic or however) is that the kid with the least abilities is the one who needs help the most. Society chooses to mostly ignore such weak kids because society benefits the most from those with the greatest abilities. But it's your kid... It's also an unfortunate truism that the kid who is least deserving (your choice as to how to judge deserving) is the one you will spend the most on. Life is never clear cut.

You’ve defined deserving under your terms. The bulk of society has defined deserving differently. I agree with society here.

I also believe we are pushing way too many kids to college. The trades are suffering. Skilled labor has dried up. We need more of those people and less people playing school for 5-6 years only to be miserable and make less than the HVAC or auto tech people.

[cusetownusa]

OP here. Can we please stay on the topic?

I am pretty sure this thread is close to getting shut down as I am not sure what new information you are looking for. I have a simple rule I use on this forum that any thread greater then 20 posts have no answer because there are no answers and just becomes filled with personal examples. The responses (as expected) will vary from person to person both in their views of their duties, wishes, and financial abilities on the topic.

Good luck.

Can't disagree with that. This is just a series of anecdotes, there is nothing actionable about this thread. Nobody's personal story is going to change another's mind.

I disagree...I am learning a lot from this thread.

[KlangFool]

Problem with merit-based assessments (athletic or academic or however) is that the kid with the least abilities is the one who needs help the most. Society chooses to mostly ignore such weak kids because society benefits the most from those with the greatest abilities. But it's your kid... It's also an unfortunate truism that the kid who is least deserving (your choice as to how to judge deserving) is the one you will spend the most on. Life is never clear cut.

msk,

You could start your own scholarship to address the imbalance. There are plenty of scholarships out there that gives $500 to $2,000 to whatever students that fit their criteria.

KlangFool

[acegolfer]

Can't disagree with that. This is just a series of anecdotes, there is nothing actionable about this thread. Nobody's personal story is going to change another's mind.

I disagree...I am learning a lot from this thread.

+1 I learned a lot and also changed my mind (how much to support) a few times.

[Incognito]

Live in a state like Virginia that has good in-state public universities.

KlangFool

+1

Paid for daughter at an in-state university. Son is in college now. Paid through 529 + cash flow. it'll be a different ball game if and when son gets into med school in a couple of years - 529 will be depleted and cash flow alone may not be enough.

- Incognito

[MDfan]

Paying for all 3 undergrad. Two out-of-state (but one got scholarship and one participating in Academic Common Market to get in-state tuition). Not sure about grad school, but will definitely help out to the extent that we can.

[bltkmt]

We have two sons that both attended Clemson. #1 finished on time in engineering and got a job immediately - we paid for his undergrad completely. #2 is studying bio-chem and will likely need a graduate degree to find a career job. We will pay for his undergrad, as we did with his brother, but are debating paying for graduate school. Tough topic.

[Nowizard]

We budgeted to pay for all education through graduate school with both children holding terminal degrees in their chosen areas. No, they do not feel entitled in that regard and both are appropriate with their spending and earn more at this point in their careers than their parents at the same age. We also told our children that we would pay for full rides and that any scholarships or other grants they received would result in that amount being given to them. One child's education was more expensive.We loaned the remaining amount at very low interest. We wanted to be "fair" at that point and chose to not make an allowance for the extra time since the second child chose to take fewer hours than the first.

Tim

[Camarillo Brillo]

I'm curious how much will you support your kids.

If yes, to what extent? Part of tuition, in-state full tuition, private university tuition, living expenses?

Edited again

We live in a state with an exceptional state university system. The most expensive, flagship U, is $25K/year for everything, and several others are around $15k/year.

My wife and I each attended the flagship campus and always told our two boys we would pay the entire nut if they stayed in-state.

But, when it came time for the older one to choose, we completely changed our minds and encouraged him to look out-of-state. That was primarily because we wanted some distance between him and us, and because we thought it would be good for him. Although he was doing OK academically, we thought it would help him mature to be 100% on his own. He had a bad attitude and there was incredible friction at home.

And, we were right. He has really grown into a mature, independent, focused young man that we are now very proud of. His grades are outstanding. His class attendance was nearly perfect. He worked full-time in a corp IT department during his breaks and summer and has saved every cent he ever made. His investment account that he manages entirely on his own just hit $38K, and he is targeting to have $70K saved when he graduates in 2.5 years.

Also, through market timing luck, the cash we put in the boy's 529 plan ballooned from a little over $60K to $237K, and our networth increased by several million. (I put $60K in a deferred comp account that was at $82K when I cashed it out at the bottom of the market in 2009. That $82K lump sum was then re-invested in the 529 at that bottom and has benefited from the incredible stock market run). So, financially it was not a sacrifice to let him go out-of-state, and for us to pay for it all.

We'll do the same for our younger son when he graduates from HS in 2 years. He is following in his older brothers footsteps and also works in a corp IT department and will have saved $13,5K by year end, and manages his own investments (with help from his brother). My guess, though, is that he will stay in-state.

[KlangFool]

Folks,

Just my personal story. My son is one year older than my daughter. The college cost is about 30K per kid per year including room and board. Many of my peers are permanently unemployed and/or under-employed in their 40s and 50s. So, my plan was to "cash flow" my kid's college education when the time comes.

"Man Plans, and God Laughs"
- Yiddish proverb

In November of year X, I was laid off. My son was about to enter college in the Fall of year X+1. And, my daughter will start her college in year X+2. My net worth excluding the house is about 1 million. I do not have enough to retire. And, I do not know whether I can find the next job

In year X+1, my son received admission to the engineering program at Virginia Tech and VCU. VCU offered $6,000 per year scholarship. I had been unemployed for months. But, we feel that it is worth paying 4 X 6K = 24K extra to attend Virginia Tech. So, we picked the VTech. We told our son that we will pay for college. But, I do not have enough to retire if I am permanently under-employed or unemployed. He would have to financially support me in some fashion after graduation. He agreed.

In the year X+2, I found a job. I was unemployed for more than 1 year.

Please note that with 2 kids plus my annual expense, I am spending about 120K per year. If I am unemployed and/or under-employed, the 4 years college will wipe out about 40% to 50% of my portfolio. This is assuming the market stay even. If we hit a recession, I will be wiped out.

I am probably more well off than many people. But, I still live on the margin in regards to college education financing.

KlangFool

[stoptothink]

They are NOT CC grads. Look at their diplomas they are grads of whatever school the transferred to. I am pretty sure you knew that already and just wanted to debate. Look at my post I said "CC grad". That is NOT the same as going to CC and transferring and GRADUATING from another college.

Good luck.

So you accept that beginning at a CC to save money does not impact one's ability to get into medical school, therefore, your point is what?

My point is that doing 2 years of CC alone because that is what you can afford to send your kid vs. paying (which you may not be able to) for additional 2 years would limit one's employment opportunity.

Good luck.

You are making a point that nobody has, will, or can dispute; so, no point at all. Saving (possibly) tens of thousands by attending a CC initially does not impair one's chances of becoming a physician at all.

Staythecourse is correct in stating that it is more difficult to be accepted to medical school when taking medical school prerequisites at a community college. Medical school admissions offices make this clear to applicants that they do not view coursework taken at community colleges as equally rigorous to those taken at 4 year colleges.

SUNY Upstate College of Medicine
http://www.upstate.edu/com/admissions/faqs.php
“Applicants should avoid taking more than one or two prerequisite science courses during the summer and avoid taking them at community colleges.”

Ichan School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
http://icahn.mssm.edu/education/medical ... quirements
Q: Can I take my courses at a community college, or must I take them at a four-year college or university?
A: We have no requirement about where you take courses, though the Committee on Admissions does take that into consideration in evaluating your application.

Johns Hopkins Medical School
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/som/admi ... ments.html
The School of Medicine accepts prerequisites completed at the community college level. In order to be competitive in the selection process, we encourage prospective applicants with community college prerequisites to supplement these courses by taking advanced courses in related subjects at their four year institution.

University of Florida College of Medicine
http://admissions.med.ufl.edu/faq/#community_college
Q: Can I take the prerequisite courses at my local community/junior college?
A: In order to create the most academically competitive application you should take all prerequisite courses at the most competitive bachelor’s degree granting institution where you can gain entrance. You should try to complete your pre-requisite courses at a four-year institution

Albert Einstein College of Medicine
https://www.einstein.yu.edu/educati...p ... ments.aspx
Whereas course work at a four-year college or university is our benchmark, if a student chooses to meet a competency component via an alternate route such as through laboratory experience, through an advanced placement course, a course taken at a community college, a course taken abroad (during a semester abroad for which the undergraduate U.S. degree-granting institution gives credit, or for which AMCAS will verify and report the grade), or an online course, he or she should seek guidance from his or her advisor to ensure that the option meets the above guidelines as well as the rigorous academic standard required by the Albert Einstein College of Medicine.

George Washington University
http://smhs.gwu.edu/academics/md-progra ... itycollege
Do you accept community college credits?
Yes. The Committee on Admissions does accept coursework taken at a community college; however, it is preferable to have the pre-medical coursework taken at a four-year college or university.

Florida State University College of Medicine
http://med.fsu.edu/?page=mdAdmissions.a ... equirement
Listed below is the pre-requisite coursework required for all matriculates to the FSU COM. Advanced Placement, CLEP, and dual enrollment credits fulfill the course requirements. However, courses taken in a traditional classroom at a four-year institution are considered to be more academically competitive.

Every single one of those links speaks to pre-req science courses or "pre-medical coursework", nothing about taking your generals at a CC. Most CCs don't even offer upper division science courses. Really stretching in attempt to make a point which nobody disputes.

[JamalJones]

I do agree that, if parents can afford it, they should pay some or all of their children’s college/grad school. Why put them at a disadvantage? When you graduate college you're at a point where your income is (likely) the lowest it will ever be and your debt burden (likely) is the highest it will ever be (I mean, yeah, it could be higher if you buy a house later in life, but presumably, your income will be higher and you'll quite possibly have a spouse to help out with the $$).

I had to pay for all of my college education. It sucked. And like many here have mentioned, it prevented me from taking expensive vacations, buying a house early on, buying new clothes for a few years (I also started off making very little money). In addition, I put off dating for a couple years because, quite frankly, I didn't want the responsibility of paying for dinner/entertainment when I was barely able to pay my rent those first two years out of college. But this was only a couple years, so really that part wasn't a big deal.

One thing I did get out of all those burdens was some street cred. What I mean is, I could lord over people the fact that I did everything on my own. I paid for everything and took no money from my parents. I would tell this to people when the subject arose. I enjoyed telling this to people who I knew had their educations paid for. They never said a word in their defense. Ever. They would usually just nod their heads, then avert eye contact. Or say sometimes say encouraging things back to me. But not one person ever defended their good fortune.

Hey, if I had to suffer, the least I can do is make those middle and upper middle class people feel guilty. How else could I deal with my jealousy

[KlangFool]

I do agree that, if parents can afford it, they should pay some or all of their children’s college/grad school.

JamalJones,

<< if parents can afford it, >>

I would like to understand what do you mean by that. If someone like me is struggling to pay for my kids' college education, then, almost 90+% of the parent cannot afford to pay for their children's college education.

KlangFool

[SQRT]

One thing I did get out of all those burdens was some street cred. What I mean is, I could lord over people the fact that I did everything on my own. I paid for everything and took no money from my parents. I would tell this to people when the subject arose. I enjoyed telling this to people who I knew had their educations paid for. They never said a word in their defense. Ever. They would usually just nod their heads, then avert eye contact. Or say sometimes say encouraging things back to me. But not one person ever defended their good fortune.

Hey, if I had to suffer, the least I can do is make those middle and upper middle class people feel guilty. How else could I deal with my jealousy

Street cred? You’re kidding, right? The people I worked with played golf and tennis. I never had a chance
to learn. I always felt I was clawing my up. I doubt anyone would have been too impressed with my story of hardship but maybe. Hard to shake those “low born tags” but eventually I think I did.

[JamalJones]

I do agree that, if parents can afford it, they should pay some or all of their children’s college/grad school.

JamalJones,

<< if parents can afford it, >>

I would like to understand what do you mean by that. If someone like me is struggling to pay for my kids' college education, then, almost 90+% of the parent cannot afford to pay for their children's college education.

KlangFool

Well, I suppose that they should if they can afford it and it's not a significant undue financial burden. That is in regards to many of the folks posting here who have very good incomes and substantial savings where paying a all or a portion of their kids college won't make or break their retirement plans.

I mean, I could theoretically afford several big ticket items, but I would have to cash out all or some of my retirement savings. But that would put my retirement plans in jeapordy.

[JamalJones]

One thing I did get out of all those burdens was some street cred. What I mean is, I could lord over people the fact that I did everything on my own. I paid for everything and took no money from my parents. I would tell this to people when the subject arose. I enjoyed telling this to people who I knew had their educations paid for. They never said a word in their defense. Ever. They would usually just nod their heads, then avert eye contact. Or say sometimes say encouraging things back to me. But not one person ever defended their good fortune.

Hey, if I had to suffer, the least I can do is make those middle and upper middle class people feel guilty. How else could I deal with my jealousy

Street cred? You’re kidding, right? The people I worked with played golf and tennis. I never had a chance
to learn. I always felt I was clawing my up. I doubt anyone would have been too impressed with my story of hardship but maybe. Hard to shake those “low born tags” but eventually I think I did.

I didn't know what words to use. Maybe "respect" would have been better (or perhaps it was pity and/or guilt). But my point is that no one defended the help they recieved.

[Toons]

I would help pay for it.

[KlangFool]

I do agree that, if parents can afford it, they should pay some or all of their children’s college/grad school.

JamalJones,

<< if parents can afford it, >>

I would like to understand what do you mean by that. If someone like me is struggling to pay for my kids' college education, then, almost 90+% of the parent cannot afford to pay for their children's college education.

KlangFool

Well, I suppose that they should if they can afford it and it's not a significant undue financial burden. That is in regards to many of the folks posting here who have very good incomes and substantial savings where paying a all or a portion of their kids college won't make or break their retirement plans.

I mean, I could theoretically afford several big ticket items, but I would have to cash out all or some of my retirement savings. But that would put my retirement plans in jeapordy.

JamalJones,

<< That is in regards to many of the folks posting here who have very good incomes and substantial savings where paying a all or a portion of their kids college won't make or break their retirement plans. >>

That was the plan for many of my income peers. It works if they are not permanently under-employed or unemployed in their 40s and 50s.

Ditto for many high-income folks that started 529 plan for their kids as soon as the kids were born. It works out fine if they are fully-employed continuously over the next 10 to 20 years. If they are not, then, the plan failed.

KlangFool

[staythecourse]

I doubt anyone would have been too impressed with my story of hardship but maybe. Hard to shake those “low born tags” but eventually I think I did.

Can't speak of others, but as someone who won the gene lottery being born of a physician family in the U.S. I can say I have ALWAYS admired those who did not start ahead of the curve by birth. There are those out there that do appreciate folks who have to do it themselves. It is not street cred, but admiration for another person's success that was done with multiple odds in front of them.

Good luck.

[mary1969]

we will pay for our 3 kids college education. not sure about post graduate studies. currently have 1 attending an in-state school.

my parents paid for my undergrad and MBA. my husband paid 100% of his college expenses and his employer paid for his masters.

we have been fortunate. our kids work hard and are good people. no reason not to help them. no debt for them.

[ram]

When my daughter was trying to decide between going to a $70K a year undergrad and a $25K (with merit scholarships) I asked her to prove to me the more expensive school would provide $180,000 more value. I also explained that the $70K*4 would wipe out her 529 account (and then some) so this would be it for her. I also told her with the less expensive school we would be able to pay for grad school with the money left. The choice was hers - she chose the less expensive school.

We had the exact same deal with our daughter. She went to the cheaper school for undergrad.

[goodenyou]

I doubt anyone would have been too impressed with my story of hardship but maybe. Hard to shake those “low born tags” but eventually I think I did.

Can't speak of others, but as someone who won the gene lottery being born of a physician family in the U.S. I can say I have ALWAYS admired those who did not start ahead of the curve by birth. There are those out there that do appreciate folks who have to do it themselves. It is not street cred, but admiration for another person's success that was done with multiple odds in front of them.

Good luck.

A very close friend of mine, and a physician colleague, does the local interviews for Harvard here in town. He is a Harvard graduate. I live in an area that has extremes of poverty to extremes of wealth. If you can imagine the most severe of all poverty, that wold be it. Think on the the border of a 3rd world country poverty. He has spoken about the interviews he has conducted with potential students and some of the stories of the obstacles that some have overcome, and they are truly remarkable. I would be embarrassed to believe anyone would be impressed with my story of hardship in comparison. My kids are very fortunate to be shielded from the hardship, but they are reminded.

[ram]

Both my wife and I had parents who supported our education. Neither of us did any jobs while getting an education.

My daughter graduated from high school in 2010 and it is anticipated that by June 2019 she will have BSc, MD, MPH degrees and will start a medical residency and then support herself.

We promised her 250K for all of her education. Balance if any would be hers to keep. If she had attended her first choice schools where she was accepted her cost of education would have been as follows:
Undergrad: Johns Hopkins..................240K
Med school : Northwestern, Chicago......300K
MPH: Harvard 18 months ...................!20K
Total ...........................................660K

Instead the path she actually took was:
College credits in high school ............0.5K
State flagship school ......................60 K (partial tuition scholarship)
State flagship Med school.................95 K (full tuition scholarship)
MPH Harvard 12 months ..................80 K
Total........................................235 K

The balance 15 K will pay for her car when she starts the residency.

The high school AP classes meant that she already had about 2 years of college credits when she started college. This allowed her to do some courses in undergrad that are typically done by grad students. These in turn allowed her to do the MPH degree in 12 months. I would consider that as 'skin in the game'

A similar sum has been promised to child #2 and it is anticipated that he will also finish his education debt free.

[JamalJones]

Both my wife and I had parents who supported our education. Neither of us did any jobs while getting an education.

My daughter graduated from high school in 2010 and it is anticipated that by June 2019 she will have BSc, MD, MPH degrees and will start a medical residency and then support herself.

We promised her 250K for all of her education. Balance if any would be hers to keep. If she had attended her first choice schools where she was accepted her cost of education would have been as follows:
Undergrad: Johns Hopkins..................240K
Med school : Northwestern, Chicago......300K
MPH: Harvard 18 months ...................!20K
Total ...........................................660K

Instead the path she actually took was:
College credits in high school ............0.5K
State flagship school ......................60 K (partial tuition scholarship)
State flagship Med school.................95 K (full tuition scholarship)
MPH Harvard 12 months ..................80 K
Total........................................235 K

The balance 15 K will pay for her car when she starts the residency.

The high school AP classes meant that she already had about 2 years of college credits when she started college. This allowed her to do some courses in undergrad that are typically done by grad students. These in turn allowed her to do the MPH degree in 12 months. I would consider that as 'skin in the game'

A similar sum has been promised to child #2 and it is anticipated that he will also finish his education debt free.

I have never in my life heard of anyone spending even close to $660K on their undergrad/grad education. Almost criminal. At least your kid took the less expensive route.

[ks289]

So you accept that beginning at a CC to save money does not impact one's ability to get into medical school, therefore, your point is what?

My point is that doing 2 years of CC alone because that is what you can afford to send your kid vs. paying (which you may not be able to) for additional 2 years would limit one's employment opportunity.

Good luck.

You are making a point that nobody has, will, or can dispute; so, no point at all. Saving (possibly) tens of thousands by attending a CC initially does not impair one's chances of becoming a physician at all.

Staythecourse is correct in stating that it is more difficult to be accepted to medical school when taking medical school prerequisites at a community college. Medical school admissions offices make this clear to applicants that they do not view coursework taken at community colleges as equally rigorous to those taken at 4 year colleges.

SUNY Upstate College of Medicine
http://www.upstate.edu/com/admissions/faqs.php
“Applicants should avoid taking more than one or two prerequisite science courses during the summer and avoid taking them at community colleges.”

Ichan School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
http://icahn.mssm.edu/education/medical ... quirements
Q: Can I take my courses at a community college, or must I take them at a four-year college or university?
A: We have no requirement about where you take courses, though the Committee on Admissions does take that into consideration in evaluating your application.

Johns Hopkins Medical School
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/som/admi ... ments.html
The School of Medicine accepts prerequisites completed at the community college level. In order to be competitive in the selection process, we encourage prospective applicants with community college prerequisites to supplement these courses by taking advanced courses in related subjects at their four year institution.

University of Florida College of Medicine
http://admissions.med.ufl.edu/faq/#community_college
Q: Can I take the prerequisite courses at my local community/junior college?
A: In order to create the most academically competitive application you should take all prerequisite courses at the most competitive bachelor’s degree granting institution where you can gain entrance. You should try to complete your pre-requisite courses at a four-year institution

Albert Einstein College of Medicine
https://www.einstein.yu.edu/educati...p ... ments.aspx
Whereas course work at a four-year college or university is our benchmark, if a student chooses to meet a competency component via an alternate route such as through laboratory experience, through an advanced placement course, a course taken at a community college, a course taken abroad (during a semester abroad for which the undergraduate U.S. degree-granting institution gives credit, or for which AMCAS will verify and report the grade), or an online course, he or she should seek guidance from his or her advisor to ensure that the option meets the above guidelines as well as the rigorous academic standard required by the Albert Einstein College of Medicine.

George Washington University
http://smhs.gwu.edu/academics/md-progra ... itycollege
Do you accept community college credits?
Yes. The Committee on Admissions does accept coursework taken at a community college; however, it is preferable to have the pre-medical coursework taken at a four-year college or university.

Florida State University College of Medicine
http://med.fsu.edu/?page=mdAdmissions.a ... equirement
Listed below is the pre-requisite coursework required for all matriculates to the FSU COM. Advanced Placement, CLEP, and dual enrollment credits fulfill the course requirements. However, courses taken in a traditional classroom at a four-year institution are considered to be more academically competitive.

Every single one of those links speaks to pre-req science courses or "pre-medical coursework", nothing about taking your generals at a CC. Most CCs don't even offer upper division science courses. Really stretching in attempt to make a point which nobody disputes.

What? I don’t get exactly what you mean by generals.

The med school requirement courses are very basic intro level courses. Most people would take big chunks of them 1st and 2nd years in college like 2 semesters each of bio, chem, organic chemistry, and physics. Also 1 semester of biochemistry, math, English, and statistics are commonly required. No upper level stuff here.

If you are discouraged from fulfilling these basic courses at a community college that will certainly squeeze you out from majoring in many science areas or taking any upper level science courses at all when you transfer for 3rd year. Your competitiveness as a med school applicant suffers greatly from this approach. Although cheaper, I fail to see how CC is a good route to being a competitive med school applicant.

[ks289]

Both my wife and I had parents who supported our education. Neither of us did any jobs while getting an education.

My daughter graduated from high school in 2010 and it is anticipated that by June 2019 she will have BSc, MD, MPH degrees and will start a medical residency and then support herself.

We promised her 250K for all of her education. Balance if any would be hers to keep. If she had attended her first choice schools where she was accepted her cost of education would have been as follows:
Undergrad: Johns Hopkins..................240K
Med school : Northwestern, Chicago......300K
MPH: Harvard 18 months ...................!20K
Total ...........................................660K

Instead the path she actually took was:
College credits in high school ............0.5K
State flagship school ......................60 K (partial tuition scholarship)
State flagship Med school.................95 K (full tuition scholarship)
MPH Harvard 12 months ..................80 K
Total........................................235 K

The balance 15 K will pay for her car when she starts the residency.

The high school AP classes meant that she already had about 2 years of college credits when she started college. This allowed her to do some courses in undergrad that are typically done by grad students. These in turn allowed her to do the MPH degree in 12 months. I would consider that as 'skin in the game'

A similar sum has been promised to child #2 and it is anticipated that he will also finish his education debt free.

Congratulations again on your daughter’s success.
The $235K for undergrad, MD/MPH is very impressive. For comparison, my education 20-25 years ago for undergrad and MD (no MPH) was $320K. My parents helped tremendously, which I hope to duplicate for my kids for elementary, middle, high school, college, and graduate school. I hope they find good, economical choices, but I don’t want to limit their opportunities in the process.

[bltn]

We re at the end of a long journey with our children educations. Our youngest is in his last year of graduate school. He and his big sister both went to private colleges with no financial aid, and to rather expensive graduate schools. I believe, as several have noted, that a good education is a valuable legacy. They will both be equipped for bright futures. The rest is up to them.
I also agree with the above post that the full freight parents heavily subsidize the families that receive aid at a number of these expensive private colleges. At my daughter s eastern university, the cost of school increased 7-8% a year in the seven years between her graduation and my son starting college. That while inflation was 2% a year. That won t be able to continue. If these increases continue, the segment of the population able to support full freight costs will continue to shrink, and those people will start to wonder if the ever higher price for that "elite" education is really worth it. I m not sure it is. High achieving children will do well, regardless of where they attend college.

[chipperd]

Both my wife and I had parents who supported our education. Neither of us did any jobs while getting an education.

My daughter graduated from high school in 2010 and it is anticipated that by June 2019 she will have BSc, MD, MPH degrees and will start a medical residency and then support herself.

We promised her 250K for all of her education. Balance if any would be hers to keep. If she had attended her first choice schools where she was accepted her cost of education would have been as follows:
Undergrad: Johns Hopkins..................240K
Med school : Northwestern, Chicago......300K
MPH: Harvard 18 months ...................!20K
Total ...........................................660K

Instead the path she actually took was:
College credits in high school ............0.5K
State flagship school ......................60 K (partial tuition scholarship)
State flagship Med school.................95 K (full tuition scholarship)
MPH Harvard 12 months ..................80 K
Total........................................235 K

The balance 15 K will pay for her car when she starts the residency.

The high school AP classes meant that she already had about 2 years of college credits when she started college. This allowed her to do some courses in undergrad that are typically done by grad students. These in turn allowed her to do the MPH degree in 12 months. I would consider that as 'skin in the game'

A similar sum has been promised to child #2 and it is anticipated that he will also finish his education debt free.

Interesting comparison. Does Harvard's 10% fee not apply to your situation or is that only for undergrad?
https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/ ... ordability

[acegolfer]

I have never in my life heard of anyone spending even close to $660K on their undergrad/grad education.

Same here. That would be >50% of my liquid net worth. Can I pay for it? Yes. Can I afford it? Maybe. Will I pay for it? Probably not.

[SQRT]

One thing I did get out of all those burdens was some street cred. What I mean is, I could lord over people the fact that I did everything on my own. I paid for everything and took no money from my parents. I would tell this to people when the subject arose. I enjoyed telling this to people who I knew had their educations paid for. They never said a word in their defense. Ever. They would usually just nod their heads, then avert eye contact. Or say sometimes say encouraging things back to me. But not one person ever defended their good fortune.

Hey, if I had to suffer, the least I can do is make those middle and upper middle class people feel guilty. How else could I deal with my jealousy

Street cred? You’re kidding, right? The people I worked with played golf and tennis. I never had a chance
to learn. I always felt I was clawing my up. I doubt anyone would have been too impressed with my story of hardship but maybe. Hard to shake those “low born tags” but eventually I think I did.

I didn't know what words to use. Maybe "respect" would have been better (or perhaps it was pity and/or guilt). But my point is that no one defended the help they recieved.

That was not one of my better posts. Sorry.

In some places there may have been some respect given to a story like yours or mine but I never noticed. In reality i didn’t tell my story very often. Not sure why. Maybe I was a little embarrassed. Shouldn’t have been. Now that it’s all over (retired 12 years), I feel differently.

[SQRT]

I doubt anyone would have been too impressed with my story of hardship but maybe. Hard to shake those “low born tags” but eventually I think I did.

Can't speak of others, but as someone who won the gene lottery being born of a physician family in the U.S. I can say I have ALWAYS admired those who did not start ahead of the curve by birth. There are those out there that do appreciate folks who have to do it themselves. It is not street cred, but admiration for another person's success that was done with multiple odds in front of them.

Good luck.

Yes, you are right. That was not one of my better posts. When I was working my way up the Corp ladder, I tended not to discuss my background. I think I was a little embarrassed. Shouldn’t have been. Although talking too much about it would have been irritating, I think. I guess that’s what these anonymous forums are for.

Anyway, it all worked out fabulously. I have taught my daughter through example that hard work and never giving up are important attributes. She has not shown any sense of entitlement despite having a very generous, supporting father. I have made sure she and any of her kids will never have to go through what I did.

[SQRT]

I doubt anyone would have been too impressed with my story of hardship but maybe. Hard to shake those “low born tags” but eventually I think I did.

Can't speak of others, but as someone who won the gene lottery being born of a physician family in the U.S. I can say I have ALWAYS admired those who did not start ahead of the curve by birth. There are those out there that do appreciate folks who have to do it themselves. It is not street cred, but admiration for another person's success that was done with multiple odds in front of them.

Good luck.

A very close friend of mine, and a physician colleague, does the local interviews for Harvard here in town. He is a Harvard graduate. I live in an area that has extremes of poverty to extremes of wealth. If you can imagine the most severe of all poverty, that wold be it. Think on the the border of a 3rd world country poverty. He has spoken about the interviews he has conducted with potential students and some of the stories of the obstacles that some have overcome, and they are truly remarkable. I would be embarrassed to believe anyone would be impressed with my story of hardship in comparison. My kids are very fortunate to be shielded from the hardship, but they are reminded.

Very good point. We sometimes forget how lucky we are. My story of “hardship” would pale in comparison. Nevertheless, I have done everything I could to make it as easy as possible financially for my daughter as I could. I guess I am trying to use my “good luck” to increase her “good luck”. Every once in a while my daughter and I discuss her “very good luck”.

[RobLyons]

At this point it's looking like we will help, but not 100% for multiple reasons. We don't have the means currently. Plus I think it's a good life lesson to have children who are becoming adults to understand financial responsibility. Higher education is expensive so I want them to choose wisely.

Personally we have observed other blue collar workers killing themselves working 80+ hours a week so their offspring can have a free college education and the offspring either doesn't appreciate it, or they do not enter their chosen education/career path, and we do not want to repeat others mistakes.

[staythecourse]

Both my wife and I had parents who supported our education. Neither of us did any jobs while getting an education.

My daughter graduated from high school in 2010 and it is anticipated that by June 2019 she will have BSc, MD, MPH degrees and will start a medical residency and then support herself.

We promised her 250K for all of her education. Balance if any would be hers to keep. If she had attended her first choice schools where she was accepted her cost of education would have been as follows:
Undergrad: Johns Hopkins..................240K
Med school : Northwestern, Chicago......300K
MPH: Harvard 18 months ...................!20K
Total ...........................................660K

Instead the path she actually took was:
College credits in high school ............0.5K
State flagship school ......................60 K (partial tuition scholarship)
State flagship Med school.................95 K (full tuition scholarship)
MPH Harvard 12 months ..................80 K
Total........................................235 K

The balance 15 K will pay for her car when she starts the residency.

The high school AP classes meant that she already had about 2 years of college credits when she started college. This allowed her to do some courses in undergrad that are typically done by grad students. These in turn allowed her to do the MPH degree in 12 months. I would consider that as 'skin in the game'

A similar sum has been promised to child #2 and it is anticipated that he will also finish his education debt free.

This is a great summary of choosing an option that one allows you to end up in nearly the same position for nearly 1/3 of the cost. Well played. Just curious why the MPH? She thinking of academics? Otherwise, it isn't useful in private practice (which I am sure you already know).

I would NEVER pay for the tuition costs mentioned on the first option even if my kid got in since your child can accomplish nearly everything she aspires to do with the option you guys chose.

Good luck.

[Bruce T]

2 kids in college this year (they are a year apart) ... we have saved enough in 529s to cover in-state plus a little ... one is going to in-state private and the other to out-of-state public, so 529 would fall short excepting: both have merit scholarships that lower costs to a bit above in-state & my parents have generously paid for the first year for each... allowing 529s plus a bit of cash flow to cover as long as scholarships are maintained.

We are are encouraging working just summers/breaks and telling them (correctly, I think) that their "jobs" at school are to learn, gain experience in their fields (including work/interning/co-ops, etc. as available) and their primary financial responsibilities are to keep extra spending within their budgets and to maintain their merit based aid. We do not have plans to financially support grad school unless there are 529 balances remaining (a possibility, since both kids are potentially on a 3 year bachelor's track). We have been transparent about available $ resources since about sophomore year in high school and proactively educating them on the merits of avoiding student debt. [As an aside, they have been on a give/save/spend allowance structure since 3rd grade, one of them has started a "super-save" (I.e. retirement) account ... "save" wasn't long term enough... hope springs eternal!]

Somewhat related ... there are numerous ways in which college credit can be earned at lower costs than traditional college tuition.
a. Ours (and most) high schools offer some access to local community college courses, these are typically transferrable, at least in-state.
b. AP classes/exams are quite cost-effective
c. College board CLEP exams are very cost effective and straightforward... we were unaware of those until mentioned by one of the colleges that encouraged use of CLEPS as cost saving (good on them!).
All of the above probably ought to be worked starting no later than 9th or 10th grade... The above have allowed for about 1 years worth of college placement/credit by our younger ... he will be starting college this fall essentially as almost a sophomore with respect to class credits. The older is aiming for 3 years plan via higher class load and summer classes.

Good luck (but, better still, good planning!).