Making a mistake considering a new job?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Post Reply
UnitaryExecutive
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:54 pm

Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by UnitaryExecutive » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:49 pm

Here's the background- I'm currently working as a Director of engineering at a public tech company. It's a really good job both objectively and subjectively speaking. The company has great benefits, unlimited PTO, great work-life balance, and really values the staff with lots of upward mobility. I work with great people, I'm respected, I've got a great boss and support up the chain to the C level. I also have around 1M in unvested RSUs over a 4 year period. Other relevant details: I have a 5 minute commute, work around 45 hours a week, and take ~6 weeks of vacation a year to spend quality time w/ the family. On the flip-side, I'm not challenged and the best way to describe the role is uninspiring.

My personal situation is wife and I are mid 30's with 2 young children < 3. We're pretty secure financially w/ a net worth ~3.6M and have decided once we hit 4.5M we're "semi-retired" and focusing our time on things we're passionate about like education and startups. We just had our 2nd child and I'm on paternity leave and the time together and cadence to our days is amazing and we want to make it permanent. All we have to do is stick to our plan for 2 more years to make this plan a reality.

There's a new opportunity to take a similar role at a company that's considered a rocket ship getting their new office off the ground. The company has great culture, builds an unbelievable product with tons of users, hires and retains top tier talent. If I look at my career, the two things I think I want to experience are a) a startup in the hockey stick part of their growth and b) an IPO (they have a fairly good chance to IPO). Some downsides are it may be more hours, I'd be committed for more than 2 years, it may involve some travel, and it introduces an extra 1.5 hours of commute time.

Am I dumb for even thinking about this? That's 7-8 hours a week I lose with the family and sometimes I think I'm dumb and selfish even having conversations about other opportunities.
Last edited by UnitaryExecutive on Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Purelife304
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:17 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by Purelife304 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:53 pm

Sure sounds like you currently have a unicorn. I’d ride that pony.
I didn’t consider how big of a downer commute before I made a career change. 2 hours in a car each day is a drain.

All told still an incredible decision to make, well done

:sharebeer

delamer
Posts: 6267
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by delamer » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:56 pm

The commute time in-and-of-itself is bad in terms of time away, but it also takes a physical and psychological toll that will affect the quality of your at-home time.

“Some travel” can mean a lot of things.

UnitaryExecutive
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by UnitaryExecutive » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:01 pm

delamer wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:56 pm
The commute time in-and-of-itself is bad in terms of time away, but it also takes a physical and psychological toll that will affect the quality of your at-home time.

“Some travel” can mean a lot of things.
I think the plan was we would move if 6 months in, we thought it was the right thing. However, that's uprooting the family and also commuting for 6 months.

Some travel probably means traveling to the Bay Area once a month. I currently travel there once every 2-3 months.

il0kin
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:19 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by il0kin » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:12 pm

4 more years to get above your retirement goal just with vested RSUs, not including what I am sure is a very good salary which you are saving a healthy % of... at which point you can semi-retire. Yeah, you are crazy. I'd say stick it out but that isn't even the right phrase, maybe "lounge it out" is better :D . You have it made - lots of people would kill to be in your situation. There will be plenty more start-ups you can take gambles on after you hit your 4.5M in a few years and are completely FI.

ResearchMed
Posts: 7430
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by ResearchMed » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:13 pm

UnitaryExecutive wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:49 pm
Here's the background- I'm currently working as a Director of engineering at a public tech company. It's a really good job both objectively and subjectively speaking. The company has great benefits, unlimited PTO, great work-life balance, and really values the staff with lots of upward mobility. I work with great people, I'm respected, I've got a great boss and support up the chain to the C level. I also have around 1M in unvested RSUs over a 4 year period unvested. Other relevant details: I have a 5 minute commute, work around 45 hours a week, and take ~6 weeks of vacation a year to spend quality time w/ the family. On the flip-side, I'm not challenged and the best way to describe the role is uninspiring.

My personal situation is I wife and I are mid 30's with 2 young children < 3. We're pretty secure financially w/ a net worth ~3.6M and have decided once we hit 4.5M we're "semi-retired" and focusing our time on things we're passionate about like education and startups. We just had our 2nd child and I'm on paternity leave and the time together and cadence to our days is amazing and we want to make it permanent. All we have to do is stick to our plan for 2 more years to make this plan a reality.

There's a new opportunity to take a similar role at a company that's considered a rocket ship getting their new office off the ground. The company has great culture, builds an unbelievable product with tons of users, hires and retains top tier talent, and is considered a rocket ship. If I look at my career, the two things I think I want to experience are a) a startup in the hockey stick part of their growth and b) an IPO (they have a fairly good chance to IPO). Some downsides are it may be more hours, I'd be committed for more than 2 years, it may involve some travel, and it introduces an extra 1.5 hours of commute time.

Am I dumb for even thinking about this? That's 7-8 hours a week I lose with the family and sometimes I think I'm dumb and selfish even having conversations about other opportunities.
Good "problem", if there must be a problem :wink:

I get it about the not being challenged. That's certainly not ideal for someone who would prefer to be challenged/inspired, etc.
And especially for someone only in the mid-30's. That's a lot of years ahead of you to be "not inspired".

Oh, but WAIT!!
This is for about 2 more years, not 2 or 3 more decades? :happy
Very different indeed.
You know what you are dealing with now, and it sounds almost idyllic - lots of time with family, minimal commute, any time off you need/want... and the pay is also "good enough" for your early retirement goals so you can spend time with a still-young family!

Or... you can NOT have those two precious years with you little ones, and, yes, that time with your wife, too.
And... probably be more stressed from that commute than you realize, especially as you grit your teeth when traffic is especially bad and you remember "that previous 5 minute commute..."

However, it's all too easy for me/others to sit back and make suggestions/give advice.
But some situations seem more clear than others, and this, to me anyway, is one of them.
IF you had many years ahead of you, I'd definitely suggest some sort of change, although even then, perhaps not just now when the little ones are so... little. (Not that there's really a "better" age to "be gone" much of the day.)

Can you put on the "change jobs hat" and "argue" more in favor of the change you are considering... what am I missing?
(That's a *very* serious question. You have lots of background and information that we here on the Internet can't possibly know. Try to explain it again to us, and see where that leads *you*. You don't even need to post it; just organize your thoughts a bit more, as though you were going to explain it more to us.)

And good luck.
You are in a pretty nice situation, all around, so don't lose track of that!

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

UnitaryExecutive
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by UnitaryExecutive » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:40 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:13 pm

Can you put on the "change jobs hat" and "argue" more in favor of the change you are considering... what am I missing?
(That's a *very* serious question. You have lots of background and information that we here on the Internet can't possibly know. Try to explain it again to us, and see where that leads *you*. You don't even need to post it; just organize your thoughts a bit more, as though you were going to explain it more to us.)

And good luck.
You are in a pretty nice situation, all around, so don't lose track of that!

RM
Thanks, we're super grateful for our situation.

I like putting on the other hat and really thinking it through. If I were to boil it down, I think how I view my career is I've had a successful exit at a startup where I was there on day one, I've built and scaled an org from 2 to 45 and a larger company and shipped product and gotten more and more responsibility and the one thing I haven't done, which is intellectually interesting to me, is really tackle and fix problems at a high growth startup stage where things are changing all the time.

I was there building out the office at the current company, but I didn't lead it. The most compelling aspects are the challenge of being the site leader, establishing the right culture, hiring the right people, and building something lasting and meaningful. The company plans to make this a 400 person office so it's really a chance to have an outsized impact and give back a bit. I've also worked with the same talented people for many years and I think it's time to branch out a bit.

ThankYouJack
Posts: 2241
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by ThankYouJack » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:53 pm

UnitaryExecutive wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:49 pm
We just had our 2nd child and I'm on paternity leave and the time together and cadence to our days is amazing and we want to make it permanent. All we have to do is stick to our plan for 2 more years to make this plan a reality.
Why do you need to wait 2 more years to make it permanent? Couldn't you make things work with $3.6M and great job opportunities if/when you decide to go back to work?
Last edited by ThankYouJack on Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

KlangFool
Posts: 10401
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by KlangFool » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:59 pm

UnitaryExecutive wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:49 pm

Am I dumb for even thinking about this? That's 7-8 hours a week I lose with the family and sometimes I think I'm dumb and selfish even having conversations about other opportunities.
UnitaryExecutive,

<<My personal situation is I wife and I are mid 30's with 2 young children < 3. We're pretty secure financially w/ a net worth ~3.6M and have decided once we hit 4.5M we're "semi-retired" and focusing our time on things we're passionate about like education and startups. We just had our 2nd child and I'm on paternity leave and the time together and cadence to our days is amazing and we want to make it permanent. >>

Yes, you are dumb. There will be another startup. But, you can never get 2 years back from your family.

KlangFool

UnitaryExecutive
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by UnitaryExecutive » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:00 pm

ThankYouJack wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:53 pm
UnitaryExecutive wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:49 pm
We just had our 2nd child and I'm on paternity leave and the time together and cadence to our days is amazing and we want to make it permanent. All we have to do is stick to our plan for 2 more years to make this plan a reality.
Why do you need to wait 2 more years to make it permanent? Couldn't you make things work with $3.6M and great job opportunities if/when you decide to go back to work?
Great question! Combination of 3 things: a) it allows us to pay the house off and make sure college is funded b) make hay while the sun shines with large number of RSUs vesting and c) additional buffer for unknown things like health insurance, inflation, and breakthroughs resulting in increase in life expectancy.

ThankYouJack
Posts: 2241
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by ThankYouJack » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:07 pm

UnitaryExecutive wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:00 pm
ThankYouJack wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:53 pm
UnitaryExecutive wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:49 pm
We just had our 2nd child and I'm on paternity leave and the time together and cadence to our days is amazing and we want to make it permanent. All we have to do is stick to our plan for 2 more years to make this plan a reality.
Why do you need to wait 2 more years to make it permanent? Couldn't you make things work with $3.6M and great job opportunities if/when you decide to go back to work?
Great question! Combination of 3 things: a) it allows us to pay the house off and make sure college is funded b) make hay while the sun shines with large number of RSUs vesting and c) additional buffer for unknown things like health insurance, inflation, and breakthroughs resulting in increase in life expectancy.
I understand but think having amazing and memorable family time while the kids are young is more important than a paid off house or funding college 16 years in advance especially with millions already saved.

You'll always have more time to work and increase your networth. It's easy to fall into a one more year syndrome and having a moving FIRE number.

Seems like a win-win-win situation. Congrats on your success!

tim1999
Posts: 3502
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:16 am

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by tim1999 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:51 pm

Congratulations on being in the great position you are in. Personally if I were you I'd stick with the job you are in now, due to the excellent work-life balance. But perhaps that desire for work-life balance is why I am your age but in a different universe of net worth and income below yours.

ResearchMed
Posts: 7430
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by ResearchMed » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:57 pm

UnitaryExecutive wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:40 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:13 pm

Can you put on the "change jobs hat" and "argue" more in favor of the change you are considering... what am I missing?
(That's a *very* serious question. You have lots of background and information that we here on the Internet can't possibly know. Try to explain it again to us, and see where that leads *you*. You don't even need to post it; just organize your thoughts a bit more, as though you were going to explain it more to us.)

And good luck.
You are in a pretty nice situation, all around, so don't lose track of that!

RM
Thanks, we're super grateful for our situation.

I like putting on the other hat and really thinking it through. If I were to boil it down, I think how I view my career is I've had a successful exit at a startup where I was there on day one, I've built and scaled an org from 2 to 45 and a larger company and shipped product and gotten more and more responsibility and the one thing I haven't done, which is intellectually interesting to me, is really tackle and fix problems at a high growth startup stage where things are changing all the time.

I was there building out the office at the current company, but I didn't lead it. The most compelling aspects are the challenge of being the site leader, establishing the right culture, hiring the right people, and building something lasting and meaningful. The company plans to make this a 400 person office so it's really a chance to have an outsized impact and give back a bit. I've also worked with the same talented people for many years and I think it's time to branch out a bit.
Interesting indeed.

Okay, I've got my Devil's Advocate Cap on... You are listing the new possibility as though it were "all good", and definitely that way.

But... what's the chance it won't be quite like that?
What if things get terribly out of control (*not* "your fault", but you might not be able to control it or turn things around, regardless of whether you have good ideas, etc., as but one "other scenario").
What if it that expansion just doesn't work out as planned, in general?
What if...? And What if...?

I'm NOT trying to be negative.
Well, okay, I am, but only as hypotheticals, or for the sake of argument.
You've got much more of a "known" at your current place.

What is the chance that IF you stay where you are for those few more years, that you could start looking elsewhere, perhaps as a consultant, on your terms, mostly meaning time involvement. That could be right after, or after taking some time with the family.
Yes, I realize that to make a "difference", it might not be a "part time" thing, of course.
But you would have the luxury of not "needing" a job, so you wouldn't be forced to take something not quite right for you.

Now, on the other hand... IF you are "home" in a couple of years, planning to stay retired... what is the chance you'll slowly (or not so slowly) get cabin fever, and miss the "challenges/inspiration" even more than you do now?
Is it likely you *could* find another job? You wouldn't be constrained by salary, a nice situation.

Good luck.
You are in an enviable situation, even if it seems a difficult decision. :happy

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

Momus
Posts: 535
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by Momus » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:04 pm

Director of public tech company makes like $1M+, and with your 5 min commute.... Hell no, I'm giving that up for some random start up tech company that might IPO or might fold. Stick it for another couple years...

Dottie57
Posts: 4643
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:43 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by Dottie57 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:08 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:59 pm
UnitaryExecutive wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:49 pm

Am I dumb for even thinking about this? That's 7-8 hours a week I lose with the family and sometimes I think I'm dumb and selfish even having conversations about other opportunities.
UnitaryExecutive,

<<My personal situation is I wife and I are mid 30's with 2 young children < 3. We're pretty secure financially w/ a net worth ~3.6M and have decided once we hit 4.5M we're "semi-retired" and focusing our time on things we're passionate about like education and startups. We just had our 2nd child and I'm on paternity leave and the time together and cadence to our days is amazing and we want to make it permanent. >>

Yes, you are dumb. There will be another startup. But, you can never get 2 years back from your family.

KlangFool
I agree. Why don’t you look more at the investment of time in your kids. Being a father is the most important job you will ever have. Find the challenge in fatherhood and fully use the benefits of your current job.

When you hit your goal, look for a startup which will benefit from your skills.

HornedToad
Posts: 890
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 12:36 am

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by HornedToad » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:14 pm

Simplify your decision.

Which is more important to you:
1. Retiring/Semi-retiring in 2 years with your family
2. Experiencing a hockey growth challenging startup

2a. If your semi-retired would look similar to #2 then that's really just moving your timeframe earlier, but I'd have a *really* hard time saying that's a semi-retired role. I think you should visualize what semi-retired really looks like to you, if you are mentally ready for it or need the challenge of the career and then go from there. Also, if you do switch companies then you have to move in order to have any semblance of happiness and WLB in the new role with young children.

Personally I'd pick #1, but I definitely see the allure of #2 and can understand how its hard to walk away from it.

UnitaryExecutive
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by UnitaryExecutive » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:21 pm

Thanks for all the responses. Family has always been #1 for us and this confirms what I was generally thinking.

Also, compliments to you guys - my wife, who had never heard about the board and read through the responses was blown away by how encouraging, funny, helpful, and "wholesome" the responses were. I think she spends too much time reading reddit :wink:

UnitaryExecutive
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by UnitaryExecutive » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:30 pm

ThankYouJack wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:07 pm
UnitaryExecutive wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:00 pm
ThankYouJack wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:53 pm
UnitaryExecutive wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:49 pm
We just had our 2nd child and I'm on paternity leave and the time together and cadence to our days is amazing and we want to make it permanent. All we have to do is stick to our plan for 2 more years to make this plan a reality.
Why do you need to wait 2 more years to make it permanent? Couldn't you make things work with $3.6M and great job opportunities if/when you decide to go back to work?
Great question! Combination of 3 things: a) it allows us to pay the house off and make sure college is funded b) make hay while the sun shines with large number of RSUs vesting and c) additional buffer for unknown things like health insurance, inflation, and breakthroughs resulting in increase in life expectancy.
I understand but think having amazing and memorable family time while the kids are young is more important than a paid off house or funding college 16 years in advance especially with millions already saved.

You'll always have more time to work and increase your networth. It's easy to fall into a one more year syndrome and having a moving FIRE number.

Seems like a win-win-win situation. Congrats on your success!
This comment is prescient - definitely done the one more year thing and moved the number a bit. We've set a firm go date of December 2020 to time optimal vesting.

UnitaryExecutive
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by UnitaryExecutive » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:31 pm

Momus wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:04 pm
Director of public tech company makes like $1M+, and with your 5 min commute.... Hell no, I'm giving that up for some random start up tech company that might IPO or might fold. Stick it for another couple years...
The company is very obviously a rocket ship and not a random startup. In fact, they're one of the few companies that would make my RSUs whole when jumping over.

UnitaryExecutive
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by UnitaryExecutive » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:36 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:57 pm

Interesting indeed.

Okay, I've got my Devil's Advocate Cap on... You are listing the new possibility as though it were "all good", and definitely that way.

But... what's the chance it won't be quite like that?
What if things get terribly out of control (*not* "your fault", but you might not be able to control it or turn things around, regardless of whether you have good ideas, etc., as but one "other scenario").
What if it that expansion just doesn't work out as planned, in general?
What if...? And What if...?

I'm NOT trying to be negative.
Well, okay, I am, but only as hypotheticals, or for the sake of argument.
You've got much more of a "known" at your current place.

What is the chance that IF you stay where you are for those few more years, that you could start looking elsewhere, perhaps as a consultant, on your terms, mostly meaning time involvement. That could be right after, or after taking some time with the family.
Yes, I realize that to make a "difference", it might not be a "part time" thing, of course.
But you would have the luxury of not "needing" a job, so you wouldn't be forced to take something not quite right for you.

Now, on the other hand... IF you are "home" in a couple of years, planning to stay retired... what is the chance you'll slowly (or not so slowly) get cabin fever, and miss the "challenges/inspiration" even more than you do now?
Is it likely you *could* find another job? You wouldn't be constrained by salary, a nice situation.

Good luck.
You are in an enviable situation, even if it seems a difficult decision. :happy

RM
Super valid points. We're going in eyes wide open that things may be what they seem, things may spiral out of control, I won't have the built up respect I do at a new company. My current company has partnered with this specific company and everyone I've met has been top notch. They're also known for being super ethical and having a great culture, so I think it's slightly less risky. That would also be the reason to trial and commute for 6 months before actually uprooting and moving so that I have a 5 minute commute again.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be the type to get cabin fever. I have too many interests - our family wants to live somewhere else for a year, I read 30-40 books a year, I've wanted to take a shot at the World Series of Poker, I have some side project ideas I want to try, we're LPs in a couple seed funds and tagging along would be interesting, etc.

gotester2000
Posts: 589
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:59 am

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by gotester2000 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:47 pm

I almost cried :oops: when reading the OP's post that he is considering moving away from such a fantastic life in search of something challenging!!!
OP - Life does not give everything in abundance to one person - please appreciate it and keep it.

cantos
Posts: 254
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:25 am

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by cantos » Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:33 pm

UnitaryExecutive wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:36 pm
Super valid points. We're going in eyes wide open that things may be what they seem, things may spiral out of control, I won't have the built up respect I do at a new company. My current company has partnered with this specific company and everyone I've met has been top notch. They're also known for being super ethical and having a great culture, so I think it's slightly less risky. That would also be the reason to trial and commute for 6 months before actually uprooting and moving so that I have a 5 minute commute again.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be the type to get cabin fever. I have too many interests - our family wants to live somewhere else for a year, I read 30-40 books a year, I've wanted to take a shot at the World Series of Poker, I have some side project ideas I want to try, we're LPs in a couple seed funds and tagging along would be interesting, etc.
I disagree with the advice here so far. I think you should take the new job. You are obviously a person of high intelligence. You require (not want, but REQUIRE) a job that stimulates you and keeps you in the game. You are not satisfied with achieving what others take to be great achievements. Do not measure yourself by what other people would be satisfied with. You have your own values and know them best. I suspect your wife also knows you as a constant go-getter, unsatisfied with what you have already achieved. Family is great - you know enough to value that - but family is not enough for you.

I have known and do know people like you who achieved much early on and continued to achieve great things. A somewhat longer commute/less time with the family does not mean that you love them any less, nor does it necessarily mean they are worse off for it. I would argue that your family is better off if you spend less time with them, as it means you will be pursuing what you need to do self-actualize; and a happy self-actualizing father/husband is ultimately better than a father/husband that spends a lot of time with family and spends most of that time wondering what he could have achieved.

If what I just wrote rings true for you, you know what to do.

Wisdom is not found in achieving objective goals like FIRE and lots of family time and what others here have opined as some kind of idyllic life. Wisdom is found in knowing who you are (one that enjoys challenges and new things) and staying true to those values.

il0kin
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:19 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by il0kin » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:26 am

I keep thinking about this thread!

Another aspect to this situation, IMO, is that you should really be making hay while the sun shines. Another economic downturn will come someday. Layoffs may be rampant. Tech employees (and I am one of them, although not at a huge $$ start-up or FAANG type company, I do Business Intelligence/general SQL work for a large local company) are likely overpaid and eventually, the market may flatten out somewhat and wages may drop as more qualified employees enter the market. Maybe that would impact you, maybe not - but when things are good, stack your cash and save!

HEDGEFUNDIE
Posts: 980
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:06 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:40 am

cantos wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:33 pm
UnitaryExecutive wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:36 pm
Super valid points. We're going in eyes wide open that things may be what they seem, things may spiral out of control, I won't have the built up respect I do at a new company. My current company has partnered with this specific company and everyone I've met has been top notch. They're also known for being super ethical and having a great culture, so I think it's slightly less risky. That would also be the reason to trial and commute for 6 months before actually uprooting and moving so that I have a 5 minute commute again.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be the type to get cabin fever. I have too many interests - our family wants to live somewhere else for a year, I read 30-40 books a year, I've wanted to take a shot at the World Series of Poker, I have some side project ideas I want to try, we're LPs in a couple seed funds and tagging along would be interesting, etc.
I disagree with the advice here so far. I think you should take the new job. You are obviously a person of high intelligence. You require (not want, but REQUIRE) a job that stimulates you and keeps you in the game. You are not satisfied with achieving what others take to be great achievements. Do not measure yourself by what other people would be satisfied with. You have your own values and know them best. I suspect your wife also knows you as a constant go-getter, unsatisfied with what you have already achieved. Family is great - you know enough to value that - but family is not enough for you.

I have known and do know people like you who achieved much early on and continued to achieve great things. A somewhat longer commute/less time with the family does not mean that you love them any less, nor does it necessarily mean they are worse off for it. I would argue that your family is better off if you spend less time with them, as it means you will be pursuing what you need to do self-actualize; and a happy self-actualizing father/husband is ultimately better than a father/husband that spends a lot of time with family and spends most of that time wondering what he could have achieved.

If what I just wrote rings true for you, you know what to do.

Wisdom is not found in achieving objective goals like FIRE and lots of family time and what others here have opined as some kind of idyllic life. Wisdom is found in knowing who you are (one that enjoys challenges and new things) and staying true to those values.
+1. Stated beautifully.

Some philosophy might help. Aristotle in his Nichomachean Ethics writes about what exactly constitutes a flourishing human life (“eudaimonia”). He concludes that it is not enough merely to achieve happiness; one should aspire to achieve excellence in one’s chosen field to truly reach the highest virtues.

User avatar
TxAg
Posts: 1306
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:09 am

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by TxAg » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:13 am

Different strokes for different folks. I'd stay put and retire asap.

ThankYouJack
Posts: 2241
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by ThankYouJack » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:44 am

cantos wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:33 pm
UnitaryExecutive wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:36 pm
Super valid points. We're going in eyes wide open that things may be what they seem, things may spiral out of control, I won't have the built up respect I do at a new company. My current company has partnered with this specific company and everyone I've met has been top notch. They're also known for being super ethical and having a great culture, so I think it's slightly less risky. That would also be the reason to trial and commute for 6 months before actually uprooting and moving so that I have a 5 minute commute again.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be the type to get cabin fever. I have too many interests - our family wants to live somewhere else for a year, I read 30-40 books a year, I've wanted to take a shot at the World Series of Poker, I have some side project ideas I want to try, we're LPs in a couple seed funds and tagging along would be interesting, etc.
I disagree with the advice here so far. I think you should take the new job. You are obviously a person of high intelligence. You require (not want, but REQUIRE) a job that stimulates you and keeps you in the game. You are not satisfied with achieving what others take to be great achievements. Do not measure yourself by what other people would be satisfied with. You have your own values and know them best. I suspect your wife also knows you as a constant go-getter, unsatisfied with what you have already achieved. Family is great - you know enough to value that - but family is not enough for you.

I have known and do know people like you who achieved much early on and continued to achieve great things. A somewhat longer commute/less time with the family does not mean that you love them any less, nor does it necessarily mean they are worse off for it. I would argue that your family is better off if you spend less time with them, as it means you will be pursuing what you need to do self-actualize; and a happy self-actualizing father/husband is ultimately better than a father/husband that spends a lot of time with family and spends most of that time wondering what he could have achieved.

If what I just wrote rings true for you, you know what to do.

Wisdom is not found in achieving objective goals like FIRE and lots of family time and what others here have opined as some kind of idyllic life. Wisdom is found in knowing who you are (one that enjoys challenges and new things) and staying true to those values.
Tough to put ourselves in the OPs shoes and know exactly what would make the OP happiest.
My impression is that it doesn't seem like the OP is passionate about a typical 8-5 engineering office job but is more passionate about spending time with family and education / starting a company. Since the OP mentioned semi-retiring at a very young age so I'm assuming he loves life outside of work more so than going to work. I can't blame him there as I'm also one who gets bored with a typical office job.

Overall, I think this forum plays it extremely safe financially. It's easy to keep going after money but I think the most important time to spend with kids is when they're young and there is great time to bond as a family.
Last edited by ThankYouJack on Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:40 am, edited 3 times in total.

carolinaman
Posts: 3288
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:56 am
Location: North Carolina

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by carolinaman » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:06 am

There are always risks when changing jobs for both you and your new employer. Bad boss, culture misfit, business failure, financial issues are all potential risks for you. Startups are typically not known to have normal 40 hour work weeks. Expect much longer work hours in the beginning. You have a super job in all respects but your job is not challenging. IMO, the added commute is the least of your worries. I am not saying the new job will not work out, but there are clearly unknown risks at this time which should be considered.

Conversely, you are in great financial shape and this may be the right opportunity to fulfill your desire for a startup. Startup opportunities like this do not come around often. This may be your best shot at a startup. Just consider all the factors in your decision.

FWIW, I went to work for a tech startup in my late 30s. I worked very long hours but loved the fast pace and excitement. I became SrVP over the largest and most profitable group. I felt like I got 15 years experience in 5 years in all phases of the business. I moved on after 5 years because my boss, the CEO, was meddling in the business too much and disrupting the business. I felt as long as he was there, we had plateaued at best. Ironically, 6 months after I left, the venture capitalists funding the company replaced him.

limeyx
Posts: 243
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:34 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by limeyx » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:09 pm

Purelife304 wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:53 pm
Sure sounds like you currently have a unicorn. I’d ride that pony.
I didn’t consider how big of a downer commute before I made a career change. 2 hours in a car each day is a drain.

All told still an incredible decision to make, well done

:sharebeer
Agreed. Commute time limits my career significantly but time home with family and kids and lack of commute stress more than makes up for it

I'd ride this one!

ge1
Posts: 362
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:15 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by ge1 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:46 pm

First of all congrats that you are in this position, well done.

I was in a somewhat similar position 18 months ago: Had a secure, well paying job at Mega Corp and so did my wife (even better paying job). A new job opportunity came up with significant career enhancements for me but various risks / negatives (small company, relocation, wife had to give up job etc.). I posted the question on the forum here as well and the overwhelming feedback was I should stay with my old company.

Well... of course I took the new job :D and - as cheesy at is sounds - it really came down what my “gut” told me to do. You (or at least I) can’t just make a decisions by weighing all the positives and negatives as is life was a math equation. Sometimes big changes come along and somehow you “know” in your heart what the right answer is.

Again, this was all very fluffy stuff, and it’s obviously extremely subjective. You will be fine financially in any scenario, but think about how you may miss not having joined “the rocket ship” if you look back at this decision 5 or 10 years from now. You are still very young, good time to take some risks!

Good luck with your decision

cj2018
Posts: 121
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:49 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by cj2018 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:15 pm

UnitaryExecutive wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:31 pm
Momus wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:04 pm
Director of public tech company makes like $1M+, and with your 5 min commute.... Hell no, I'm giving that up for some random start up tech company that might IPO or might fold. Stick it for another couple years...
The company is very obviously a rocket ship and not a random startup. In fact, they're one of the few companies that would make my RSUs whole when jumping over.
UnitaryExecutive,

Given the info you shared in your OP and based on $1M RSU as a Director, i assume you are at either FB, Microsoft or Google and base salary at $220k-$250k with additional 20%-30% performance bonus. So your current Total Annual Comp is over $500k.

Now, assuming the unicorn startup you mentioned is either Airbnb or Uber (only ones i know that could possibly match/beat your RSUs and near iPO), here's what i would do:
  • Make sure you get a title bump to Sr. Director or possibly VP
  • Negotiate a 15% bump on RSU or stock option given the illiquidity
  • Ask for the same base and bonus comp as your current job
  • Take the new job
This will eliminate all your downside risk and ensure at least you are getting compensated for the startup/illiquidity risk.

Don't worry about the commute - you will only do this for 1-3 years and after that, you will be retired with iPO experience and VP title while making banks.

PS: feel free to message me separately since i'm also in the tech/Silicon Valley circle, so unlike most BHs who are not in the industry, i can relate to your situation better.

User avatar
Tamarind
Posts: 1161
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:38 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by Tamarind » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:30 pm

I'm in your industry. I've ridden a high growth startup. I think you're underestimating the insane stress that those companies can generate. It's also fun and challenging but mostly it's necessary pain.

For you that pain is not necessary. I'd say you should stick it out a couple more years, until you are actually FI. THEN go look for a high growth startup opportunity knowing that if it's a bad fit for you, your family's financial well-being is not on the line.

SoAnyway
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:49 pm

Re: Making a mistake considering a new job?

Post by SoAnyway » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:38 pm

Tamarind wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:30 pm
I'm in your industry. I've ridden a high growth startup. I think you're underestimating the insane stress that those companies can generate. It's also fun and challenging but mostly it's necessary pain.

For you that pain is not necessary. I'd say you should stick it out a couple more years, until you are actually FI. THEN go look for a high growth startup opportunity knowing that if it's a bad fit for you, your family's financial well-being is not on the line.
+10000

Post Reply