Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

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davehica
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Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by davehica »

This question is a little strange because I'm not really in the market for a new car. Our current vehicles have only 30k and 130k miles (both are Priuses), so I guess I'm asking this question purely from a financial perspective.

From what I understand, there are numerous tax credits which currently total at least $12k, possibly more. In addition, my employer reimburses me $10k towards the purchase of an electric vehicle, which should bring the total cost down to about $13k or so. If I also finance for 72 months at 0%, I think all the financial signs point to buy now.

So, if I don't really NEED a car right now, should I replace our oldest car now to capture all of the credits?
BackOfTheNet
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by BackOfTheNet »

I'd buy one for $13k for sure.
bloom2708
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by bloom2708 »

Is the Prius with 130k having any issues?

You currently have 2 fuel efficient cars. Spending any money to get incentives will not save you anything. I mean, spending $13k is not saving. It is costing your $13k.

150k is the mile marker where costs can start to skew toward replacing. It is no magic number, but 150k miles seems to be the new 100k from cars in the past.

Your employer incentive is an additional X factor that others don't have. Is the Leaf used for work purposes or just commuting?

With the incentives and rebates, it certainly is within reason to look at replacing the Prius with 130k miles. Note the Federal tax credit will only take your return owed to $0. Let's say you do your taxes and you have to pay $3,000. The credit doesn't wipe out the $3,000 owed and flip you to a $4,500 rebate. You owe $0. You lose the $4,500 additional credit.

I would probably drive both current cars for another year unless the work incentive has an expiration date. I assume Fed and State tax credits will be renewed for 2019, so those would still be available.
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boogiehead
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by boogiehead »

From a pure financial stand point its never a good idea to buy something "just cause its a good deal" (I've fallen into this trap many times myself and tbh I regret it about half the time) because it still requires you to spend money in which you could be saving (assuming you follow the boglehead philosophy) and most of the time you don't get the full utility out of it. But if you feel the older car is at the point of breaking down soon and given you qualify for all the incentives it might make sense. BTW I think your commute, accessibility to charging, should also dictate if its worth it to the get the leaf and your insurance will probably go up quite a bit as well.
mervinj7
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by mervinj7 »

Do you need 3 cars? If not, how much could you sell the Prius with 130k miles for? $10k? $6k? $2k? Once you consider that and expenses of maintaining a car getting close to 150k miles, it's seems like a no-brainer to get a new Leaf for $13K - trade-in of old Prius. Also, can you breakdown your $12K in expected tax credits? I'm assuming you either in live in Colorado or in San Joaquin valley, CA in order to get another $4500 on top of that sweet $7500 Federal tax credit. Does your employer's $10K incentive have an expiration date?
Topic Author
davehica
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by davehica »

Employer credit does not currently have an expiration, but it would not surprise me if this program is modified (IE not as lucrative) sometime in the future.
Is the Prius with 130k having any issues?
None so far. Main battery failed at 99K miles and was replaced under warranty.
Is the Leaf used for work purposes or just commuting?
Commuting and trips around town mostly.
You currently have 2 fuel efficient cars. Spending any money to get incentives will not save you anything.
We'd use only the free charging options for the first 2 years, so I'm estimating about $1-$1.5K in fuel savings.
Let's say you do your taxes and you have to pay $3,000. The credit doesn't wipe out the $3,000 owed and flip you to a $4,500 rebate. You owe $0. You lose the $4,500 additional credit
My "wife" and I are not legally married, so we file two single-filer returns and we always receive fairly significant refunds. Does this mean that I would want to significantly bump up withholdings in order to ensure that we receive the max federal credit? Would I be able to split the credit between my wife and I if we are both on the title?
I assume Fed and State tax credits will be renewed for 2019, so those would still be available.
I think Nissan's federal credit will start hitting the phaseout sometime in early 2019 (so that credit could be cut to $3750 or even 0 within the next 6-12 months). Guessing you're right about the state credits.
longleaf
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by longleaf »

Depends. Could you sell it for a decent amount above 13k after you bought it? If so, it appears to be a good investment!
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mhalley
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by mhalley »

What model is the Prius? If it is worth 13k, then selling it and buying the leaf might be worthwhile. Otherwise you would need to calculate how much the annual savings on gas and oil would be and see how many years it would take to recoup the price differential.of course having a new car has an intangible value, so a lot of this depends on your overall financial picture,
financeperchance
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by financeperchance »

The $1,000 to $1,500 in fuel savings makes this a nice tax-free return on investment.

Also keep in mind that you have to go with expected future repairs and maintenance and look at that cost per mile. EVs require almost zero maintenance.

It sounds to me like this is the economic equivalent of a $13,000 tax-free municipal bond that offers a pretty good coupon.
mervinj7
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by mervinj7 »

davehica wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:58 am My "wife" and I are not legally married, so we file two single-filer returns and we always receive fairly significant refunds. Does this mean that I would want to significantly bump up withholdings in order to ensure that we receive the max federal credit? Would I be able to split the credit between my wife and I if we are both on the title?
This is a dangerous misunderstanding. The $7500 EV Tax credit is non-refundable tax credit that reduces your tax liability. Your tax liability is not affected by your withholdings (except for underpayment penalties). For example, if your tax liability is $10k for 2018 and you withheld $8k, then you owe another $2k when you file your taxes. However, if you withheld $12k, you get a refund for $2k when you file but your tax liability still remained at $10k. In this scenario, if you bought a new Nissan Leaf, you will reduce your tax liability by $7500 to $2500.
The tricky part is that if your tax liability is less than $7.5K, then you can reduce your tax liability to zero but you can NOT receive a refund. In your particular case, you will have to check with a CPA if your EV tax credit can be split between two tax returns.
bloom2708
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by bloom2708 »

davehica wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:58 am
Let's say you do your taxes and you have to pay $3,000. The credit doesn't wipe out the $3,000 owed and flip you to a $4,500 rebate. You owe $0. You lose the $4,500 additional credit
My "wife" and I are not legally married, so we file two single-filer returns and we always receive fairly significant refunds. Does this mean that I would want to significantly bump up withholdings in order to ensure that we receive the max federal credit? Would I be able to split the credit between my wife and I if we are both on the title?
If you typically get a refund, the Fed credit would be $0. At least that is my understanding. People convert from Traditional IRA to Roth, sell taxable accounts with large gains, reduce withholding. Essentially you have to create tax events that get you to owing more tax at tax time.

With one income we also typically get a refund. I have wondered if you do the "tax" events and then find out the phase outs are hit. Then you owe the tax and don't get the full credit. Not sure if that can happen.

How does your employer reimburse the $10k? You provide proof of purchase and they put $10k in a future paycheck? That is a nice perk and potentially a reason (outside of the Fed tax credits) to buy electric. Does it have to be new? I assume new. You can get used Leaf's with very low miles for around $10k.
Last edited by bloom2708 on Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nate79
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by Nate79 »

1. I would make sure you know exactly what the tax credit/actual cost of the Leaf will be
2. make a spreadsheet based on assumption you will sell the Prius and run the numbers vs keep the Prius until 200k miles.

My guess is it makes sense as the Prius needs to be replaced in next few years anyways. The other issue is that you should compare to a few years old Leaf and see any difference. I believe they sell for a big discount already only a few years old.
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DanMahowny
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by DanMahowny »

Wow, that's awesome man. A Leaf for $13k? Good for you.

Hell yes I would buy one.
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aristotelian
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by aristotelian »

The fallacy of your thinking is that there is a set price for a Nissan LEAF, and then the price to you is the set price minus the credit. In reality, there is the market value $X of the car, and the credit enables Nissan to "officially" charge $X plus $7K. The cost to you is the same either way. This is why used LEAF's with no credit appear to be so cheap relative to the cost of a new one.

How does your employer credit work? Does it have to be a new EV?
HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

aristotelian wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:33 pm The fallacy of your thinking is that there is a set price for a Nissan LEAF, and then the price to you is the set price minus the credit. In reality, there is the market value $X of the car, and the credit enables Nissan to "officially" charge $X plus $7K. The cost to you is the same either way. This is why used LEAF's with no credit appear to be so cheap relative to the cost of a new one.
This might have been true for the old model Leafs but not necessarily so for the 2018 model right now. CarMax right now has a used ‘18 Leaf SV (MSRP $35k) listed for $29k. With the tax credits and depreciation you would expect a much lower resale price.

OP should buy it and flip it.
financeperchance
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by financeperchance »

Just wanted to point out, since the issue of tax liability has come up, that an easy way to get to the $7,500 in tax liability to use the EV credit is to convert a traditional IRA to a Roth.
mervinj7
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by mervinj7 »

bloom2708 wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:46 pm If you typically get a refund, the Fed credit would be $0. At least that is my understanding. People convert from Traditional IRA to Roth, sell taxable accounts with large gains, reduce withholding. Essentially you have to create tax events that get you to owing more tax at tax time.
Converting Traditional IRA to Roth, and selling appreciated stock in a taxable account are valid ways to increase your tax liability. Increasing your withholdings does NOT change your tax liability. It only effects what you owe the IRS or are owed when you file your taxes.
OP, as others have mentioned, I strongly suggest you break down your purchase costs, expected federal and state tax credits, and trade in assumptions on the Prius. That way, you can understand what assumptions you are making.
TravelGeek
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by TravelGeek »

We recently replaced a 2010 Prius with a 2018 LEAF. Very happy with the purchase so far, even though we did not get an employer subsidy. It is a great commute/driving around town car. Unless we take it on longer road trips, our regional driving will be essentially “free”, powered by solar energy production (“” because we obviously paid for the solar system).
TravelGeek
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by TravelGeek »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:41 pm
OP should buy it and flip it.
I’d look into whether that disqualifies you from getting the fed tax credit.

“The vehicles must be acquired for use or lease and not for resale.”

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/plug-in- ... nd-irc-30d
Jack FFR1846
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:41 pm
aristotelian wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:33 pm The fallacy of your thinking is that there is a set price for a Nissan LEAF, and then the price to you is the set price minus the credit. In reality, there is the market value $X of the car, and the credit enables Nissan to "officially" charge $X plus $7K. The cost to you is the same either way. This is why used LEAF's with no credit appear to be so cheap relative to the cost of a new one.
This might have been true for the old model Leafs but not necessarily so for the 2018 model right now. CarMax right now has a used ‘18 Leaf SV (MSRP $35k) listed for $29k. With the tax credits and depreciation you would expect a much lower resale price.
And I'd submit that Car Max isn't going to get that money for that car. Car Max is very well known for putting very high prices on their cars. As they don't sell, they lower the price. It will hit market price soon.

For fun, I looked up my 2014 Wrangler Unlimited with an automatic transmission. I found the closest match here: https://www.carmax.com/car/16258179

You'll note that Car Max wants about $29k for this with 34k miles. I bought mine brand new (ordered) and paid $28k. I would submit that Car Max either won't get that money for it or it'll be sold to someone who doesn't even bother checking what a new one would cost.
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HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:00 pm
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:41 pm
aristotelian wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:33 pm The fallacy of your thinking is that there is a set price for a Nissan LEAF, and then the price to you is the set price minus the credit. In reality, there is the market value $X of the car, and the credit enables Nissan to "officially" charge $X plus $7K. The cost to you is the same either way. This is why used LEAF's with no credit appear to be so cheap relative to the cost of a new one.
This might have been true for the old model Leafs but not necessarily so for the 2018 model right now. CarMax right now has a used ‘18 Leaf SV (MSRP $35k) listed for $29k. With the tax credits and depreciation you would expect a much lower resale price.
And I'd submit that Car Max isn't going to get that money for that car. Car Max is very well known for putting very high prices on their cars. As they don't sell, they lower the price. It will hit market price soon.

For fun, I looked up my 2014 Wrangler Unlimited with an automatic transmission. I found the closest match here: https://www.carmax.com/car/16258179

You'll note that Car Max wants about $29k for this with 34k miles. I bought mine brand new (ordered) and paid $28k. I would submit that Car Max either won't get that money for it or it'll be sold to someone who doesn't even bother checking what a new one would cost.
Go to Cars.com and do a nationwide search for used 2018 Nissan Leafs, you’ll see they are all listed between $29k-$32k.

Even if you bought the car new, drove it for a year, pocketed the tax credits, and then sold it, you’d probably still come out ahead, or in the worst case had a free car to drive for a year.

This is a screaming deal.
daveydoo
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by daveydoo »

davehica wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:29 am ... (both are Priuses)...
My condolences.

Yes, I would sell the higher-mileage Prius and immediately buy the Leaf. And I would not mind driving a Leaf.
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arsenalfan
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by arsenalfan »

I wouldn't buy a new car until you needed it, so long as that company credit isn't expiring anytime soon.
Tesla and GM are the ones closest to reaching the 200k limit for the Fed tax credit. I don't think Nissan is close.
A lot of more interesting e-cars are in the pipeline.
I have a dilemma of sink $1500 into an existing GTI vs buy a Volt/Bolt/eCar. I'm electing to go with the lowest cost option and repair the GTI, and see what new cars come out in the next 3-5 years. I also want to teach the kids on the GTI manual shift, but that's an aside.
Research and test drive a car, in case your older Prius dies...but like Paul Masson, buy no car...before it's time
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Topic Author
davehica
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by davehica »

Thanks for all the responses, I'll try to address as many of the questions as I can. A few folks asked about the value of the old prius, and unfortunately I think I could only get around $2-$3K. So here is what the purchase would look like:

$35K MSRP
(10K) Employer credit
(7.5K) Federal credit
(2.5K) CVRP credit
(.5K) PGE credit
(2.5K) Old prius sale
$12K Net out of pocket
It sounds to me like this is the economic equivalent of a $13,000 tax-free municipal bond that offers a pretty good coupon.
That's kind of what I was thinking if I save ~$500/year on gas and finance @ 0% for 6 years.
mervinj7 wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:41 pm
davehica wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:58 am My "wife" and I are not legally married, so we file two single-filer returns and we always receive fairly significant refunds. Does this mean that I would want to significantly bump up withholdings in order to ensure that we receive the max federal credit? Would I be able to split the credit between my wife and I if we are both on the title?
This is a dangerous misunderstanding. The $7500 EV Tax credit is non-refundable tax credit that reduces your tax liability. Your tax liability is not affected by your withholdings (except for underpayment penalties). For example, if your tax liability is $10k for 2018 and you withheld $8k, then you owe another $2k when you file your taxes. However, if you withheld $12k, you get a refund for $2k when you file but your tax liability still remained at $10k. In this scenario, if you bought a new Nissan Leaf, you will reduce your tax liability by $7500 to $2500.
The tricky part is that if your tax liability is less than $7.5K, then you can reduce your tax liability to zero but you can NOT receive a refund. In your particular case, you will have to check with a CPA if your EV tax credit can be split between two tax returns.
Thanks for the correction. We have more than enough tax liability to get the max federal credit.
How does your employer reimburse the $10k? You provide proof of purchase and they put $10k in a future paycheck? That is a nice perk and potentially a reason (outside of the Fed tax credits) to buy electric. Does it have to be new? I assume new.
Yes, $10K in a future paycheck. It does not have to be new, but I was leaning towards new in order to get the larger battery pack that is supposedly launching with the 2019 model. If I buy used, I would lose all of the other credits, but I realize I could get a much cheaper Leaf and probably reduce the overall out of pocket. Also, should mention that the employer credit can be used once every 6 years.
TravelGeek wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:51 pm We recently replaced a 2010 Prius with a 2018 LEAF. Very happy with the purchase so far, even though we did not get an employer subsidy. It is a great commute/driving around town car. Unless we take it on longer road trips, our regional driving will be essentially “free”, powered by solar energy production (“” because we obviously paid for the solar system).
We also have solar and will utilize the charging network, so driving will be mostly "free"
daveydoo wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:43 pm
davehica wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:29 am ... (both are Priuses)...
My condolences.

Yes, I would sell the higher-mileage Prius and immediately buy the Leaf. And I would not mind driving a Leaf.
haha. I certainly stick out on my block...everyone else has 2 BMW's, 2 Audis, 2 Porsches, etc. I think part of me wants the leaf just so I dont have to say we have 2 priuses.
mervinj7
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by mervinj7 »

davehica wrote: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:43 pm here is what the purchase would look like:

$35K MSRP
(10K) Employer credit
(7.5K) Federal credit
(2.5K) CVRP credit
(.5K) PGE credit
(2.5K) Old prius sale
$12K Net out of pocket
With this breakdown, it looks like a no-brainer to upgrade your car. However, the current 2018 Leaf has only a 40kWh battery. The 2019 E-plus version is expected to have a 60kWh battery but it will likely also increase the MSRP and you will have to wait a bit longer. If you are interested in the 2018 Leaf SV w/Tech Package, you should be able to pay significantly less than the MSRP of $36,200. For example, at Hayward Nissan, the starting point for pricing is $4,500 less than MSRP. On top of that you may qualify for other incentives including $2K NMAC Captive Cash and/or $1k College Grad. Of course, CA sales tax is calculated on your selling price (before any rebates/tax credits).

http://www.haywardnissan.com/leafs-specials.htm
HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

mervinj7 wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:08 am
davehica wrote: Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:43 pm here is what the purchase would look like:

$35K MSRP
(10K) Employer credit
(7.5K) Federal credit
(2.5K) CVRP credit
(.5K) PGE credit
(2.5K) Old prius sale
$12K Net out of pocket
With this breakdown, it looks like a no-brainer to upgrade your car. However, the current 2018 Leaf has only a 40kWh battery. The 2019 E-plus version is expected to have a 60kWh battery but it will likely also increase the MSRP and you will have to wait a bit longer. If you are interested in the 2018 Leaf SV w/Tech Package, you should be able to pay significantly less than the MSRP of $36,200. For example, at Hayward Nissan, the starting point for pricing is $4,500 less than MSRP. On top of that you may qualify for other incentives including $2K NMAC Captive Cash and/or $1k College Grad. Of course, CA sales tax is calculated on your selling price (before any rebates/tax credits).

http://www.haywardnissan.com/leafs-specials.htm
+1. I was able to buy exactly this model for $7k below MSRP at Nissan San Francisco.

Add in the sales tax and license fees and your actual bottom line should be around $8k.
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Edie
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by Edie »

I just bought a used 2015 with 14k miles for that price, I wish I had the option you do :shock: :)

I also "replaced" a Prius (sold it to my son, so it's still at the house if I want to borrow it). I would have kept my Prius another 6 years at least (seriously love that car), but my son was going to buy a car, and this was a way I could help him out.

If I didn't know someone who needed a car where they knew everything had been maintained appropriately, I wouldn't have bought the leaf, but I am glad I did, because it's super fun to drive, and ridiculously quiet... my Prius was quiet and I scared a few people moving it when they didn't know I'd turned it on, but the leaf is nearly silent. It's craziness.

How long were you planning on driving the oldest Prius, or put a different way, how far forward are you shifting the purchase?

Leafs make excellent second vehicles. Do you ever both go on long trips separately at the same time? We have an ICE minivan (wish we'd gotten the hybrid, but there weren't any in our price range) that we use for long trips, so the small battery isn't an issue for me, because I don't do long trips alone. I can get to/from work (30 miles round trip), make a couple trips for kid activities (another 10-20 miles) and plug in to the trickle charge and have a full battery the next morning. I'm never running mine down to empty, and it works great for my situation.
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mmmodem
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by mmmodem »

Speaking from someone that used come from a 2 Prius household, I'd buy the Leaf.

The older Prius will need to be replaced anyway soon. It's doubtful you will be able to replace it for only $12k that would be equivalent to a brand new 2018 Nissan Leaf.

I would not wait to purchase as some suggested. The federal tax credit may be reduced in 2019. A higher capacity battery may come in 2019 but will cost more and suddenly you'll be paying $10k more for the vehicle.

Realize you won't save money on fuel. High electricity prices in CA will negate any savings when compared to a 50 not Prius. If you came from a 25 mpg vehicle, then you save money.
HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

mmmodem wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:31 am Realize you won't save money on fuel. High electricity prices in CA will negate any savings when compared to a 50 not Prius. If you came from a 25 mpg vehicle, then you save money.
Nissan No Charge to Charge: Two years of free charging with new Leaf purchase

https://www.ez-charge.com/faq
Iorek
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by Iorek »

I would do it-- only issue would be whether to wait for next year's model because it will have a range closer to 250 miles than 150 miles-- it will probably cost $5-6k more though.
N10sive
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by N10sive »

I would do it especially with the federal tax reduction offers pry dropping soon/lower along with the unknown with your company credit. I imagine you could get a little more for your prius than 2-3k unless it is in horrible shape.
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Nate79
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by Nate79 »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:41 am
mmmodem wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:31 am Realize you won't save money on fuel. High electricity prices in CA will negate any savings when compared to a 50 not Prius. If you came from a 25 mpg vehicle, then you save money.
Nissan No Charge to Charge: Two years of free charging with new Leaf purchase

https://www.ez-charge.com/faq
Some key quotes from your link because as an owner you are not really going to have 2 years of free charging.
No Charge to Charge is a program offered by Nissan that provides new LEAF buyers or lessees with 30 minutes of free charging on participating DC fast charging stations and 60 minutes of free charging on participating Level 2 stations for two years from their time of purchase.
The current EV charging network participants that support EZ-Charge are Aerovironment, Blink, ChargePoint, Greenlots, JNSH, and EVgo.
You must disconnect from the charger for at least 1 hour before getting another free charge. Most people will charge at home so unless they are going to these charging stations a lot and can get a full charge within about 1 hr they are not getting 2 years of free charging in real life.
HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

Nate79 wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:16 pm
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:41 am
mmmodem wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:31 am Realize you won't save money on fuel. High electricity prices in CA will negate any savings when compared to a 50 not Prius. If you came from a 25 mpg vehicle, then you save money.
Nissan No Charge to Charge: Two years of free charging with new Leaf purchase

https://www.ez-charge.com/faq
Some key quotes from your link because as an owner you are not really going to have 2 years of free charging.
No Charge to Charge is a program offered by Nissan that provides new LEAF buyers or lessees with 30 minutes of free charging on participating DC fast charging stations and 60 minutes of free charging on participating Level 2 stations for two years from their time of purchase.
The current EV charging network participants that support EZ-Charge are Aerovironment, Blink, ChargePoint, Greenlots, JNSH, and EVgo.
You must disconnect from the charger for at least 1 hour before getting another free charge. Most people will charge at home so unless they are going to these charging stations a lot and can get a full charge within about 1 hr they are not getting 2 years of free charging in real life.
In practice the DC charger will stop after 30 min but you can just unplug and replug immediately for another 30 min stint. Repeat ad infinitum. 1 hour of DC charging will get you up to 90% battery.

I’ve owned my Leaf for 3 months and have not had to pay a cent for charging.
mervinj7
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by mervinj7 »

mmmodem wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:31 am Realize you won't save money on fuel. High electricity prices in CA will negate any savings when compared to a 50 not Prius. If you came from a 25 mpg vehicle, then you save money.
For PG&E customers, prices for electricity in CA are based on Time of Use for the EV Rate Plan. For example, we only charge our Leaf overnight for 12.7c/kWh between 11PM to 7AM. By the way, gasoline in CA is quite expensive.

Let's do a rough calculation.I put 150miles since that's the EPA rated range for the 2018 Leaf but in practice we get 164 miles/charge (mild NorCal weather).

2018 Leaf
40 kWh*$0.127/kWh= $5.08 per fillup
$5.08 per fillup/150 mile range= $0.0339 per mile

Prius
$3.59 per gallon/ 50mpg = $0.0718 per mile

https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/ ... 0(Sch).pdf
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_sca_w.htm
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davehica
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by davehica »

mervinj7 wrote: Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:36 am
mmmodem wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:31 am Realize you won't save money on fuel. High electricity prices in CA will negate any savings when compared to a 50 not Prius. If you came from a 25 mpg vehicle, then you save money.
For PG&E customers, prices for electricity in CA are based on Time of Use for the EV Rate Plan. For example, we only charge our Leaf overnight for 12.7c/kWh between 11PM to 7AM. By the way, gasoline in CA is quite expensive.

Let's do a rough calculation.I put 150miles since that's the EPA rated range for the 2018 Leaf but in practice we get 164 miles/charge (mild NorCal weather).

2018 Leaf
40 kWh*$0.127/kWh= $5.08 per fillup
$5.08 per fillup/150 mile range= $0.0339 per mile

Prius
$3.59 per gallon/ 50mpg = $0.0718 per mile

https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/ ... 0(Sch).pdf
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_sca_w.htm
Yes, and we generate about 1.5K - 2K kwh in excess of our annual usage with solar panels, so that should net out the overnight charging cost.

Thanks again for all the replies. I think I've decided to sit tight for a few more months and see what the 2019 model looks like. If I decide I dont need a 2019, should be able to pick up some deals as they try to move the remaining 2018 models.
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mmmodem
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by mmmodem »

mervinj7 wrote: Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:36 am
mmmodem wrote: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:31 am Realize you won't save money on fuel. High electricity prices in CA will negate any savings when compared to a 50 not Prius. If you came from a 25 mpg vehicle, then you save money.
For PG&E customers, prices for electricity in CA are based on Time of Use for the EV Rate Plan. For example, we only charge our Leaf overnight for 12.7c/kWh between 11PM to 7AM. By the way, gasoline in CA is quite expensive.

Let's do a rough calculation.I put 150miles since that's the EPA rated range for the 2018 Leaf but in practice we get 164 miles/charge (mild NorCal weather).

2018 Leaf
40 kWh*$0.127/kWh= $5.08 per fillup
$5.08 per fillup/150 mile range= $0.0339 per mile

Prius
$3.59 per gallon/ 50mpg = $0.0718 per mile

https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/ ... 0(Sch).pdf
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_sca_w.htm
I don't use the published EV-A off peak rates because those rates are subsidized by peak rate usage. If I didn't have an EV and were on E1 rates, my electricity cost would be $0.20 - $0.25 / kWh. It wouldn't make sense to say my EV usage costs $0.07/kWh and ignore that my air conditioner now uses $0.50/kWh instead of $0.20 because I switched from EV1 to EV-A rates.

Nissan does not allow you to use the full capacity of the leaf battery as this decreases the life of the battery. A full charge is likely some 80% - 90% of the full capacity.

There is overhead in charging an EV lost in heat and to monitor the electronics. Most people observe the overhead is 15% for L1 charging and 10% for L2. That is, it costs you 1.15 kWh to put 1 kWh in your EV.

I roughly calculate my break even at $3.50 - $4 a gallon gasoline depending on my electricity usage for that month.
novemberrain
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by novemberrain »

Depends on your financial situation
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Cycle
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by Cycle »

Your employer employer reimburses $10k for an electric car. How much do they reimburse for a pair of shoes or bike for commuting, 50k?

Spending 13k on a vehicle you don't need sounds a bit rich to me. Unless you can sell it immediately for profit, much like many do with company stock purchase programs.
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way
charis23
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Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:25 pm

Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by charis23 »

novemberrain wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:02 pm Depends on your financial situation
Stable financially with an emergency fund. Why should that matter tho?
Tingting1013
Posts: 486
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by Tingting1013 »

bloom2708 wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:38 am Is the Prius with 130k having any issues?

You currently have 2 fuel efficient cars. Spending any money to get incentives will not save you anything. I mean, spending $13k is not saving. It is costing your $13k.
Buying it for $13k and selling it three years later for $13k means it literally does not cost you anything.

viewtopic.php?t=322952

Other than electric and insurance cost.

I just sold my 2018 Leaf for $15k. I paid a lot more than $13k for it.
novemberrain
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by novemberrain »

charis23 wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:12 pm
novemberrain wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:02 pm Depends on your financial situation
Stable financially with an emergency fund. Why should that matter tho?
That was a question to the OP
Flyer24
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Re: Should I buy new Nissan Leaf?

Post by Flyer24 »

Topic from 2018 was bumped with a new scenario. I split those posts into a new thread. This thread does not need further replies.
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