Need more excitement

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Esq123
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Need more excitement

Post by Esq123 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:43 pm

First let me say I am following all of the advice on this forum and I appreciate it.

I am a young investor trying to stay the course. However, I need a bit of excitement.

Does anyone dedicate any portion of your portfolios to gambling?

Trying not to develop any bad habits but waging a few dollars here and there on lottery every week gives me some entertainment.

Let me know your thoughts and if you all do the same.

Thanks all.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:44 pm

I don't.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

UpperNwGuy
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by UpperNwGuy » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:46 pm

Maybe I'm a bit odd, but I find the three-fund portfolio to be exciting.

02nz
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by 02nz » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:46 pm

The Bogleheads philosophy is the opposite of exciting - the whole point is simplicity and low costs. So if you're looking for excitement in your investment life, you've probably come to the wrong place. But don't worry, there are plenty in the financial services sector who will give you some more excitement … for a price.

athan
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by athan » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:49 pm

Yes...I invest 10% of portfolio in individual stocks. I have 6 stocks currently and it is a fun hobby. Gives me something to read and root for on a daily basis.

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cfs
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by cfs » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:50 pm

I drive thru Las Vegas every month. Never stop. Not even to buy gas. Your money, your portfolio, your decision. Good luck y gracias por leer / cfs
~ Member of the Active Retired Force since 2014 ~

jebmke
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by jebmke » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:52 pm

Sailboat racing is more fun than gambling with my money. Just ask Taylor.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

22twain
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by 22twain » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:53 pm

I don't. My father played the lottery for a while, but he considered it part of his entertainment budget, not his investing portfolio. He gave himself a certain amount to spend on lottery tickets each week, and didn't go over it.

Eventually, he switched to the horses. The track takes a smaller % of the take than the state does with the lottery, so his "stake" lasted longer. Also, going to a race track was more fun than going to the corner store. 8-) I have fond memories of going with him to Gulfstream and Calder when I visited my parents in South Florida after they retired there, years ago. I placed a few bets myself, but went mainly for the company and the atmosphere. There also, he gave himself a certain amount to spend at the beginning of the trip, and didn't go over it.

This was in the days before Native Americans were able to build casinos in South Florida. He might have tried those out if they had been around when he was alive.
Last edited by 22twain on Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:30 pm, edited 5 times in total.
My investing princiPLEs do not include absolutely preserving princiPAL.

jminv
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by jminv » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:55 pm

Buy long calls. It's definitely gambling since sellers of calls will only do so if the probability of them winning the 'bet' is greater than 50%.

You could also buy some strangles or straddles or bull call spreads etc. It's still a bull market so you can wait for puts for later. Basically anything option related. A good discount broker for this is tastyworks. $1 a contract (versus $5 at Schwab etc) up to maximum of $10 (if you buy 100 contracts, it's 10 not 100 dollars so good deal). Use optionsamurai to find yourself some trades with a decent probability of profit.

Once you trade options you will find yourself glued to the quotes and charts throughout the trading day. You might realize quickly that 'gambling' with options is not all that great.

Or make some small bets on companies you think will do well. Add in some margin to juice things up.

Speculate in real estate. If you don't own a house, buy one with a lot of leverage.

The problem with all this except for the house and the individual stocks (without margin) is that it will consume a large amount of your time and apart from that, most likely your money as well. In the interests of full disclosure, I do pick individual stocks to create a portfolio and have done well at it. I like doing it. Maybe think about what you like doing first and if it’s outside stock selection or option trading maybe leave the investments be and spend the time on what you like doing.
Last edited by jminv on Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Woodshark
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by Woodshark » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:02 pm

After decades of multiple investing errors, I find the market as a whole exciting enough for me. However there is a school of thought that, if you crave excitement, then you should set aside not more than 5% of your liquid investments to "play" with. Put it in a totally different brokerage account and have at it. If you do great then wonderful. If you strike out then you've had some fun and learned about risk and reward.

lostdog
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by lostdog » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:07 pm

When you hit about 500k of investible assets it's exciting to see the small gains in the market turn into thousands of dollars in a day. For example a 1% move in one day is a $5,000 gain of a 500k portfolio. It's also exciting to see compounding work it's magic especially when your gains are exceeding your yearly deposits.

When the market tanks you get a bit excited to buy some more shares that are on sale.

BogleBike
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by BogleBike » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:16 pm

I do not.

I would argue that excitement is a want, not a need. A need is a powerful thing that cannot be managed. Gambling under that mindset could be really dangerous/addictive. A want is something that you control.

If the desire for excitement, for adrenaline rushes, is strong, maybe get a job as a stock trader...but trading other people's stocks. Trading your own is likely to be an expensive habit. My uncle tried it. Impressively, he quit before he was broke.

PS. Richard Feynman told a story once about hanging out for a summer with a Vegas gambler. The gambler didn't play the games made available by the casinos. Instead, he offered people side bets, which he had carefully prepared so that the angles favored him.

The lesson here is to control the odds, just like controlling your desire for excitement. Cede control, and you get played. In general, all standard gambling is rigged against you. Playing is a four layer loss - you lose your money, you lose your time, you reinforce the habit of responding to external excitement cues, and you lose the opportunity to otherwise develop habits where you put the odds in your favor.

Maybe look for side jobs with elements of uncertainty - perhaps entrepreneurial gigs, or sales jobs. Anything where you pit your skill and efforts against an uncertain outcome, but you get paid. It could be anything from scalping tickets to selling tacos to reselling goods on ebay, but harness your energy into earning rather than being someone else's patsy.

JoeRetire
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by JoeRetire » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:23 pm

Esq123 wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:43 pm
Trying not to develop any bad habits but waging a few dollars here and there on lottery every week gives me some entertainment.

Let me know your thoughts and if you all do the same.
No, I don't do the same. I find lottery tickets a complete waste of time and money, and no fun at all. I don't find fun in any gambling where I have absolutely no affect on the outcome. I would find it hard to consider myself a "saver" while throwing money away on lotteries.

But that's me.

If purchasing lottery tickets makes you happy enough and you can afford it, then for you it may be a good way to spend a few dollars. Before developing this particular bad habit, do a quick self-check to make sure you won't get "addicted" and end up spending more than a few dollars here and there on it. Hopefully you don't really think you'll "win big".Hopefully you aren't expecting any of this to enhance your portfolio. Hopefully you are only considering this as an entertainment expense.

My late mother felt the same way. She spent a lot on her lottery tickets and scratch tickets. It never made any sense to me, but it was her money to spend. Fortunately, my dad kept her spending a bit in check so that it didn't get totally out of hand. If not for him, I would have been very worried.
Last edited by JoeRetire on Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

soccerrules
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by soccerrules » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:29 pm

lostdog wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:07 pm
When you hit about 500k of investible assets it's exciting to see the small gains in the market turn into thousands of dollars in a day. For example a 1% move in one day is a $5,000 gain of a 500k portfolio. It's also exciting to see compounding work it's magic especially when your gains are exceeding your yearly deposits.

When the market tanks you get a bit excited to buy some more shares that are on sale.
+1 to lost dog.
another poster mentioned taking a very small (less than 5%) of your portfolio to put in a different account and "play".

I like to play craps but for entertainment. I will occasionally buy a lottery ticket when the pot gets big-- a little $1-$2 day dreaming of all the good I could do with the funds. I guess I could also drive down the freeway and throw the bills out of the window.
Don't let your outflow exceed your income or your upkeep will be your downfall.

DesertDiva
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by DesertDiva » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:35 pm

The goal of lotteries and casinos is to separate you from your money. I see no excitement in that.
♫ Stocks go up ♫ Stocks go down ♫ Stocks go up ♫ Stocks go down ♫ - Second verse same as the first

JoeRetire
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by JoeRetire » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:40 pm

DesertDiva wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:35 pm
The goal of lotteries and casinos is to separate you from your money. I see no excitement in that.
That's the goal of movie theaters too. And golf courses. And ski resorts. And cruise ship lines. Etc, etc.

It's all entertainment.

DesertDiva
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by DesertDiva » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:46 pm

JoeRetire wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:40 pm
DesertDiva wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:35 pm
The goal of lotteries and casinos is to separate you from your money. I see no excitement in that.
That's the goal of movie theaters too. And golf courses. And ski resorts. And cruise ship lines. Etc, etc.

It's all entertainment.
When I buy a movie ticket, I get a movie in return. When I book a cruise, I get a vacation in return.

I watched my grandfather play the lottery for years and had nothing to show for it, except for piles of losing tickets. I fail to see the entertainment value in that.
♫ Stocks go up ♫ Stocks go down ♫ Stocks go up ♫ Stocks go down ♫ - Second verse same as the first

GAAP
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by GAAP » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:50 pm

Esq123 wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:43 pm
However, I need a bit of excitement.

Does anyone dedicate any portion of your portfolios to gambling?

Trying not to develop any bad habits but waging a few dollars here and there on lottery every week gives me some entertainment.
Define "excitement", "gambling", and "entertainment".

Do you want the excitement of watching your portfolio fluctuating +/- 50% daily -- or just the excitement of wondering whether that $2.00 lotto will win big?

Do you want to play the dice in Vegas, make risky investments with 1% of your portfolio, play penny-ante poker every month, make large margin option trades?

I took way too many statistics classes to play in Vegas, and I'm not good enough to play even penny-ante poker and have fun. The slots in Vegas have better odds than the lottery. I guess that leaves using a small portion of your portfolio that you can afford to lose completely (and are willing to lose completely) to make riskier investments. Not my thing, but maybe ok if you really can afford it and really will limit yourself to that amount and really won't mind when (not if) you lose it.

CascadiaSoonish
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by CascadiaSoonish » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:53 pm

I keep 1% of my investment portfolio in individual stocks; some are pretty stable, others are very volatile. Sometimes they do well, other times they don't. To me, their main value is the contrast they provide against the slow and steady growth of the index funds. I have another 10% in targeted funds: ROBO and BOTZ. This is a long play for me as I'm convinced automation is going to have a huge impact in the next twenty years.

Everything else is sensible -- index funds and bond funds.

ChinchillaWhiplash
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by ChinchillaWhiplash » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:57 pm

You can put some $s into a highly volatile sector ETF and watch level 2 quotes and trade often. Buy low, sell high, repeat. I wouldn't do this with a lot of $s, but it should keep it a bit more interesting than all set and forget. :sharebeer

JoeRetire
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by JoeRetire » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:44 pm

DesertDiva wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:46 pm
When I buy a movie ticket, I get a movie in return. When I book a cruise, I get a vacation in return.

I watched my grandfather play the lottery for years and had nothing to show for it, except for piles of losing tickets. I fail to see the entertainment value in that.
When you buy a lottery ticket, you get a ticket with a chance to win money or prizes in return.

I don't find any entertainment value in lottery tickets either.
But I understand that some folks do. The concept is not that hard to grasp if you try.

petulant
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by petulant » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:50 pm

Hobbies, romance, travel—there’s your excitement.

Ironic, too—conservative money management can make all three happen with more stability and less worry.

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by Doom&Gloom » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:01 pm

Try to find something that is demonstrably +ev. If you can't, look harder or do this:
petulant wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:50 pm
Hobbies, romance, travel—there’s your excitement.

Ironic, too—conservative money management can make all three happen with more stability and less worry.

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:10 pm

Esq123 wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:43 pm
First let me say I am following all of the advice on this forum and I appreciate it.

I am a young investor trying to stay the course. However, I need a bit of excitement.

Does anyone dedicate any portion of your portfolios to gambling?

Trying not to develop any bad habits but waging a few dollars here and there on lottery every week gives me some entertainment.

Let me know your thoughts and if you all do the same.

Thanks all.
Welcome to the forum. I won't judge you. It seems to be human nature to want to gamble. Though if you understand probabilities and statistics, I think you'd avoid gambling in a heartbeat. I recommend you read the work of Amos Tversky and Daniel Kahneman to learn more about how people often make the wrong financial decisions. Their influential work started the field now known as Behavioral Economics, of which their students like Richard Thaler and many others have carried on the learning. I also recommend you read "Your money and your brain" by Jason Zweig. Maybe you'll learn why you're looking for excitement instead of slow and steady. For instance, when it comes to spending, it's often the anticipation rather the acquisition that stimulates the parts of the brain that you're looking to activate. I believe this is no different from playing the lottery. I wonder if you can explain more why you consider this "entertainment". I know many do, but if the probability is that you'll lose more than you make, then how exactly is that entertaining? I'm honestly looking for an answer because I don't share these feelings and am looking to understand.

People often say "Wouldn't it be great to have a million dollars!?" and then quickly follow that up with, "When I win the lottery I'll be able to buy..." They don't understand (as Morgan Housel well explained it recently):
Singer Rihanna nearly went broke after overspending and sued her financial advisor. The advisor responded: “Was it really necessary to tell her that if you spend money on things, you will end up with the things and not the money?”

You can laugh. But the truth is, yes, people need to be told that. When most people say they want to be a millionaire, what they really mean is “I want to spend a million dollars,” which is literally the opposite of being a millionaire. This is especially true for young people.
source: http://www.collaborativefund.com/blog/t ... -of-money/
Whenever I hear someone say they want to gamble or speculate with individual stocks, etc. I want to ask, "Have you saved enough for retirement?" If you have, why are you still working? If you haven't, then why aren't you saving more? Instead you're likely going to take money you should be saving because you don't yet have enough to retire, and you're going to blow it on gambling. Call me old fashioned, but I just don't understand that.

It's the same when people call it "mad money" or "fun money". I know money's fungible, and if you're not gambling with the food money or the rent money, then what's the harm. Sure. But would you rather retire a year (or whatever amount) earlier or are you ok working another year because you took money you could have invested and grown and instead frittered it away? Your choice.

Finally, I think if you look deep down, you might see that your "need" for excitement is either masking something else or you're being pulled by the influence of others (who have flashier things than you and you feel left out). So before you gamble, ask yourself honestly, why you're doing that. What is the need that's driving that feeling? Could it be lack, insecurity, or fear of regret or something else?

Let us know what you think.
"Invest we must." -- Jack Bogle | “The purpose of investing is not to simply optimise returns and make yourself rich. The purpose is not to die poor.” -- William Bernstein

2015
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by 2015 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:14 pm

There is always more to these types of behaviors than meets the eye. I would question why I need to experience excitement in the form of risk-taking (gambling)? I would ask what I need to learn about myself and my relationship with risk. It's a good idea to always ask what's obvious that we might be blind to, and what is it we need to learn from that blindness?

There are already voluminous examples of failure in the world demonstrating that focusing on the outer at the expense of the inner is a monumental mistake. There's no good reason why we should be yet another example.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by Sandtrap » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:10 pm

Esq123 wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:43 pm
First let me say I am following all of the advice on this forum and I appreciate it.

I am a young investor trying to stay the course. However, I need a bit of excitement.

Does anyone dedicate any portion of your portfolios to gambling?

Trying not to develop any bad habits but waging a few dollars here and there on lottery every week gives me some entertainment.

Let me know your thoughts and if you all do the same.

Thanks all.
Why does "excitement" need to be pursued in terms of portfolio dollars?
Why can't the portfolio be left alone and "excitement" be experienced through lifestyle changes, like daily running, marathon training, sports and athletics for personal fitness, or go take a martial arts class and earn a "Black Belt", ????

j

indexonlyplease
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by indexonlyplease » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:15 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:10 pm
Esq123 wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:43 pm
First let me say I am following all of the advice on this forum and I appreciate it.

I am a young investor trying to stay the course. However, I need a bit of excitement.

Does anyone dedicate any portion of your portfolios to gambling?

Trying not to develop any bad habits but waging a few dollars here and there on lottery every week gives me some entertainment.

Let me know your thoughts and if you all do the same.

Thanks all.
Why does "excitement" need to be pursued in terms of portfolio dollars?
Why can't the portfolio be left alone and "excitement" be experienced through lifestyle changes, like daily running, marathon training, sports and athletics for personal fitness, or go take a martial arts class and earn a "Black Belt", ????

j
+1 get a hobbie or another job so you can gamble with the money. You sound like someone who is bored. Maybe a girlfriend will help.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:30 pm

indexonlyplease wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:15 am
Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:10 pm
Esq123 wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:43 pm
First let me say I am following all of the advice on this forum and I appreciate it.

I am a young investor trying to stay the course. However, I need a bit of excitement.

Does anyone dedicate any portion of your portfolios to gambling?

Trying not to develop any bad habits but waging a few dollars here and there on lottery every week gives me some entertainment.

Let me know your thoughts and if you all do the same.

Thanks all.
Why does "excitement" need to be pursued in terms of portfolio dollars?
Why can't the portfolio be left alone and "excitement" be experienced through lifestyle changes, like daily running, marathon training, sports and athletics for personal fitness, or go take a martial arts class and earn a "Black Belt", ????

j
+1 get a hobbie or another job so you can gamble with the money. You sound like someone who is bored. Maybe a girlfriend will help.
Humorously. . . .
OP is trying to "save" money.
:shock:

afan
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by afan » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:20 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:10 pm


Why does "excitement" need to be pursued in terms of portfolio dollars?
Why can't the portfolio be left alone and "excitement" be experienced through lifestyle changes, like daily running, marathon training, sports and athletics for personal fitness, or go take a martial arts class and earn a "Black Belt", ????

j
Exactly. Get your excitement from good habits, not from bad ones.

The thing that always amazes me about casino gambling in particular is how obviously bad a deal it is. Look around. All that glitter, the marble and gold accents. The huge building. The enormous number of employees. All that is paid for by the relatively small portion of revenue that is left after tax and after profit. All the revenue comes from gambling losses. If the games were fair, then the casino would go broke immediately.

I could see how someone who chose to do so could miss the odds against them for lottery tickets. I could see how card gambling without the intermediary of a casino is a better deal.

I no more look to my portfolio for excitement than I seek excitement when driving my car. I do occasionally get an adrenaline rush while driving. That comes when some other driver gets too aggressive or too careless and nearly hits me. Sometimes an airplane encounters enough turbulence that it feels like a roller coaster and one worries about surviving. It is exciting but not an experience I seek.

But there are lots of ways of getting excitement while making your life better.

Read interesting books. Get exercise.
Last edited by afan on Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama

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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by oldcomputerguy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:40 am

Esq123 wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:43 pm
Does anyone dedicate any portion of your portfolios to gambling?
I don't gamble with any of my portfolio. It's all in index funds.

That being said, I do buy an occasional lottery ticket when I have a few extra dollars in my pocket, and DW and I do enjoy the occasional jaunt to Las Vegas (or to a nearby casino in North Carolina).
It’s taken me a lot of years, but I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people. And if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

JHU ALmuni
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by JHU ALmuni » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:57 am

Buy Bitcoin and some other top alt coins. Very volatile and will definitely add some excitement to your life from my experience :shock:

Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:12 am

Some people have coffee 2 or 3x a day spending anywhere from $1+ each time. One could say coffee is addictive. If you do have a coffee habit, why would you want to start a gambling habit? Playing an occasional lottery ticket is not gambling if it provides you with something. That something may be intangible. Don’t believe this forum is populated by a bunch of lily white pure investors, sure they Index but a lot of us also pursue expensive hobbies, expensive baubles including $5k watches, own individual equities, have significant risk in form of employer stock and stock options. If you can keep your spending to a low and reasonable level while maxing out retirement savings, paying all of your bills on time, have no credit card debt, then sure go out and buy that Powerball ticket.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

A440
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by A440 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:19 am

"Life should be exciting. Your investments should be boring"

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Sandtrap
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by Sandtrap » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:48 am

afan wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:20 am
Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:10 pm


Why does "excitement" need to be pursued in terms of portfolio dollars?
Why can't the portfolio be left alone and "excitement" be experienced through lifestyle changes, like daily running, marathon training, sports and athletics for personal fitness, or go take a martial arts class and earn a "Black Belt", ????

j
Exactly. Get your excitement from good habits, not from bad ones.

The thing that always amazes me about casino gambling in particular is how obviously bad a deal it is. Look around. All that glitter, the marble and gold accents. The huge building. The enormous number of employees. All that is paid for by the relatively small portion of revenue that is left after tax and after profit. All the revenue comes from gambling losses. If the games were fair, then the casino would go broke immediately.

I could see how someone who chose to do so could miss the odds against them for lottery tickets. I could see how card gambling without the intermediary of a casino is a better deal.

I no more look to my portfolio for excitement than I seek excitement when driving my car. I do occasionally get an adrenaline rush while driving. That comes when some other driver gets too aggressive or too careless and nearly hits me. Sometimes an airplane encounters enough turbulence that it feels like a roller coaster and one worries about surviving. It is exciting but not an experience I seek.

But there are lots of ways of getting excitement while making your life better.

Read interesting books. Get exercise.
So true.
Well said.
There are lot's of ways to get an "endolphin" high.

j

Cruise
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by Cruise » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:22 pm

Esq123 wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:43 pm
Does anyone dedicate any portion of your portfolios to gambling?

Trying not to develop any bad habits but waging a few dollars here and there on lottery every week gives me some entertainment.
I keep my investment portfolio separate from my entertainment portfolio. The latter consists of buying $40 or so of lottery tickets a few times a year. My wife and I love to speculate about what we would do with all the money. The fantasies purchased are well-worth it. The only additional gambling spent with our entertainment portfolio is the $21 placed in Megabuck slots in our once-in-a-blue moon trip to Vegas. A friend won $13M on Megabucks, and so the attraction is real.

Warning: If you ever spend more on gambling than you planned, Stop. Period. Gambling is not for you.

47Percent
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by 47Percent » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:06 am

Esq123 wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:43 pm
First let me say I am following all of the advice on this forum and I appreciate it.

I am a young investor trying to stay the course. However, I need a bit of excitement.

Does anyone dedicate any portion of your portfolios to gambling?

Trying not to develop any bad habits but waging a few dollars here and there on lottery every week gives me some entertainment.

Let me know your thoughts and if you all do the same.

Thanks all.

I always knew the odds on the lottery are very bad. But CA lottery slogan is (was?) "Remember: You can't win, if you don't play".
They got me there when I was vulnerable.

I too needed some excitement -- more like something to look forward to and dream about.
The way I solved it was I used to buy a dollar or two worth of Lotto ticket once in a while when the prize used to go above $20M or so.
Not crazily high in the hundreds of millions, but just enough for me to dream.
But, the twist was, I would not check the winning numbers for a couple of months even after the draw.

My logic was simple. Lottery is a bad bet if you calculate the actual expected payoff. But you can't beat that for entertainment value for a couple of months' worth of "What if" dreams for just a couple of bucks. It used to work really well for me. Once it even paid off $5 instant bucks, which I promptly used to buy lotto tickets for a drawing 2 months out!

Green Street
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by Green Street » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:07 am

I know the feeling, I used to play poker as teen heavily which is why I think I have a high affinity for risk and maybe investing in general. I usually set aside 15% or so for individual stocks but usually bring in around 10-20k a quarter from it, rest of my portfolio is simplified. When great stocks go on sale, I have to buy them.
Searching Through The FiRE

FBN2014
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by FBN2014 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:27 am

Gambling is not investing, it is recreational, unless you can't control yourself. In that case seek professional help.
"October is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May March, June, December, August and February." - M. Twain

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cfs
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by cfs » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:36 am

Saw a LOT of Facebook buyers very excited buying "at the top" early this week, "buying high because the stock always go higher." Good luck y gracias por leer / cfs
~ Member of the Active Retired Force since 2014 ~

Mike Scott
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by Mike Scott » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:37 am

Investing in index funds works but it is pretty boring. I use my desire "to do something" on making extra money, finding extra savings, tax savings etc. I'm not interested in gambling but if it fits in your entertainment budget and does not interfere with your budgeting... On the otherhand, if you are talking about stock picking as gambling, set up a fixed small amount of money and try it.

KlangFool
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by KlangFool » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:40 am

OP,

1) $5,000 in a brokerage account for the individual stock that could return 10X to 30X.

2) $2 on a lottery ticket when the jackpot crosses 100 million.

KlangFool

investingdad
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Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:41 pm

Re: Need more excitement

Post by investingdad » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:43 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:48 am
afan wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:20 am
Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:10 pm


Why does "excitement" need to be pursued in terms of portfolio dollars?
Why can't the portfolio be left alone and "excitement" be experienced through lifestyle changes, like daily running, marathon training, sports and athletics for personal fitness, or go take a martial arts class and earn a "Black Belt", ????

j
Exactly. Get your excitement from good habits, not from bad ones.

The thing that always amazes me about casino gambling in particular is how obviously bad a deal it is. Look around. All that glitter, the marble and gold accents. The huge building. The enormous number of employees. All that is paid for by the relatively small portion of revenue that is left after tax and after profit. All the revenue comes from gambling losses. If the games were fair, then the casino would go broke immediately.

I could see how someone who chose to do so could miss the odds against them for lottery tickets. I could see how card gambling without the intermediary of a casino is a better deal.

I no more look to my portfolio for excitement than I seek excitement when driving my car. I do occasionally get an adrenaline rush while driving. That comes when some other driver gets too aggressive or too careless and nearly hits me. Sometimes an airplane encounters enough turbulence that it feels like a roller coaster and one worries about surviving. It is exciting but not an experience I seek.

But there are lots of ways of getting excitement while making your life better.

Read interesting books. Get exercise.
So true.
Well said.
There are lot's of ways to get an "endolphin" high.

j
Agreed...for example, swimming with dolphins can do it.

Hahahaha...sorry, that was too easy. :)

investingdad
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by investingdad » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:53 am

On topic...

I only do the casino thing when on a cruise. And I can see how people get sucked in. I'll play a few hands of blackjack but I walk away once my $40 disappears.

It has nothing to do with winning money, it's the adrenaline that goes with it. If I'm up $100 after a few hands, my excitement level is WAY higher than if Quicken shows a $20,000 gain on one day's market movement.

That's problematic and thus, I avoid casinos at all other times.

pennylane
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by pennylane » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:33 am

about 2% of my portfolio for individual stocks

afan
Posts: 3887
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:01 pm

Re: Need more excitement

Post by afan » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:17 am

47Percent wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:06 am
Esq123 wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:43 pm
First let me say I am following all of the advice on this forum and I appreciate it.

I am a young investor trying to stay the course. However, I need a bit of excitement.

Does anyone dedicate any portion of your portfolios to gambling?

Trying not to develop any bad habits but waging a few dollars here and there on lottery every week gives me some entertainment.

Let me know your thoughts and if you all do the same.

Thanks all.

I always knew the odds on the lottery are very bad. But CA lottery slogan is (was?) "Remember: You can't win, if you don't play".
They got me there when I was vulnerable.

I too needed some excitement -- more like something to look forward to and dream about.
The way I solved it was I used to buy a dollar or two worth of Lotto ticket once in a while when the prize used to go above $20M or so.
Not crazily high in the hundreds of millions, but just enough for me to dream.
But, the twist was, I would not check the winning numbers for a couple of months even after the draw.

My logic was simple. Lottery is a bad bet if you calculate the actual expected payoff. But you can't beat that for entertainment value for a couple of months' worth of "What if" dreams for just a couple of bucks. It used to work really well for me. Once it even paid off $5 instant bucks, which I promptly used to buy lotto tickets for a drawing 2 months out!
The motto should be "You can't LOSE if you don't play."

Give the state of mathematical education, I can understand that many people don't realize that these lotteries are loser games at all, let alone how bad they are.

It baffles me that someone who does realize this would play anyway. A passbook savings account is an incomparably better deal. At least the expected nominal return is positive. For the lottery, not even close.

I can get all the excitement I need listening to opera. And I can do that for free.

Watching my portfolio grow, again for free, not exciting in the sense of noticing short term changes in networth. I only check my total holdings once or twice a year and then just to check whether rebalancing is in order.

But knowing it is increasing long term, on average, is highly gratifying.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama

BuckyBadger
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by BuckyBadger » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:35 am

When I get bored with my investment strategy I reformat my spreadsheet. Very exciting.

I buy about one lottery ticket every year or so when people start talking about the Megamillions or whatever being half a billion dollars.

However, I DO enjoy blackjack!! I enjoy it as an entertainment expense, not as a money making venture, though. When we go somewhere with gambling (Vegas or a cruise) I earmark some amount per day ($100, maybe $200) and I play until it's gone, or until I decide to stop. Usually I'll lose a while, be up a while, lose a little longer, and then be up again - then once I'm up again I take my original amount off the table and play with the profits until I lose those - or every once in a while I keep winning and then eventually I decide to stop playing. I can usually make a hundred bucks last a couple of hours (I only play the $10 tables!) And every once in a while I make a little bit. Over the course of my lifetime I'm about even I think. Every so often I'll double my money, every so often I'll lose it all, and usually I end up pretty close to where I started.

If you play for enjoyment and never wager more than you're willing to lose I don't see anything wrong with a little bit of gambling for entertainment.

investingdad
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by investingdad » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:46 am

BuckyBadger wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:35 am
When I get bored with my investment strategy I reformat my spreadsheet. Very exciting.

I buy about one lottery ticket every year or so when people start talking about the Megamillions or whatever being half a billion dollars.

However, I DO enjoy blackjack!! I enjoy it as an entertainment expense, not as a money making venture, though. When we go somewhere with gambling (Vegas or a cruise) I earmark some amount per day ($100, maybe $200) and I play until it's gone, or until I decide to stop. Usually I'll lose a while, be up a while, lose a little longer, and then be up again - then once I'm up again I take my original amount off the table and play with the profits until I lose those - or every once in a while I keep winning and then eventually I decide to stop playing. I can usually make a hundred bucks last a couple of hours (I only play the $10 tables!) And every once in a while I make a little bit. Over the course of my lifetime I'm about even I think. Every so often I'll double my money, every so often I'll lose it all, and usually I end up pretty close to where I started.

If you play for enjoyment and never wager more than you're willing to lose I don't see anything wrong with a little bit of gambling for entertainment.
On cruises, I often go to the casino just to watch others play. It's always interesting watch both the winners and losers. If I've already lost my $40, I remind myself when tempted to lay down more that we didn't get to the Concierge level via wagering.

BuckyBadger
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by BuckyBadger » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:08 pm

investingdad wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:46 am
On cruises, I often go to the casino just to watch others play. It's always interesting watch both the winners and losers. If I've already lost my $40, I remind myself when tempted to lay down more that we didn't get to the Concierge level via wagering.
My husband does the same thing! He has no desire to play, but he loves to wander around and watch everyone playing while I play. He stops by every once in a while to harass me and then wanders around again.

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bertilak
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Re: Need more excitement

Post by bertilak » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:21 pm

Have you tried bungee jumping? :happy

Not completely a joke. It seems that if you have to get your excitement from investing maybe your focus is a little narrow.
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker, the Cowboy Poet

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